http://azstarnet.com/sports/basketball/college/wildcats/article_d72ba849-665d-5ad5-993e-f08dad654c8d.html
For those interested, an article on the practice
There's an undersigning joke here somewhere...
Or an implied comparison between Buzz and Calipari.
Just win baby
Whether one is Boned, Buzzed, or Porcini'd the savage sting of insertion is painful beyond belief.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 04, 2010, 05:18:14 PM
Just win baby
Oversigning has become or is at least becoming the rule rather than not the exception at most competitive Big 6 conference schools. IIRC I read that Indiana plans to oversign as a matter of policy for at least the near term. My guess is that there are very few, if any, who won't do it under some circumstances.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 04, 2010, 06:23:56 PM
Indiana plans to oversign as a matter of policy
Quote
The sad sordid saga continues, then...
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 04, 2010, 06:23:56 PM
Oversigning has become or is at least becoming the rule rather than not the exception at most competitive Big 6 conference schools. IIRC I read that Indiana plans to oversign as a matter of policy for at least the near term. My guess is that there are very few, if any, who won't do it under some circumstances.
I disagree. Look at the BE. There are two coaches (out of 16) that oversign: Calhoun and Pitino. Oversigning has nothing to do with the conference as it does with the individual coaches. If Pitino and Calhoun resigned today and went to mid-majors, they would do the same thing. Its the just the way they run the programs they operate. Why? Because they use more than 7 guys. PItino likes to use 9, sometimes 10 guys in a game. Calhoun oversigns because he'll take better, younger talent over lesser talent with experience in his system. Oddly, Pitt oversigned this summer but there may be more to that. We'll see.
Besides, I think over-signing is desperation more than anything else. There are circumstances in which my view wouldnt hold true, but for the most part it works.
Pretty sure Dixon oversigned his 2010 class.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 04, 2010, 06:23:56 PM
Oversigning has become or is at least becoming the rule rather than not the exception at most competitive Big 6 conference schools. IIRC I read that Indiana plans to oversign as a matter of policy for at least the near term. My guess is that there are very few, if any, who won't do it under some circumstances.
So you're comparing Buzz to TC then? And Caliprari? Just kidding, but I had to chuckle at PJDunn's comments as if that was the intent of the original post. It clearly wasn't. In fact, it was to show (to Lenny's point) that many more schools are doing it.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on October 04, 2010, 07:24:32 PM
Pretty sure Dixon oversigned his 2010 class.
Duke currently has four commitments for three scholarships.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 04, 2010, 08:13:57 PM
So you're comparing Buzz to TC then? And Caliprari? Just kidding, but I had to chuckle at PJDunn's comments as if that was the intent of the original post. It clearly wasn't. In fact, it was to show (to Lenny's point) that many more schools are doing it.
I agree - oversigning was once a practice seen mainly at schools who pushed the envelope. It's becoming more mainstream.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 04, 2010, 08:42:11 PM
Duke currently has four commitments for three scholarships.
No they don't. Duke has 4 commitments for 5 scholarships. They only have 10 scholarship players this year, and lose two to graduation giving them 5 for next year.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 04, 2010, 08:44:54 PM
I agree - oversigning was once a practice seen mainly at schools who pushed the envelope. It's becoming more mainstream.
No kidding. Article in today's JS talks about Badgers recruiting over a Catholic Memorial girls VB player. She landed at Creighton. Lookout Lindsey Gosh. (Marquette recruit for girls VB)
Quote from: mu-rara on October 05, 2010, 01:40:40 PM
No kidding. Article in today's JS talks about Badgers recruiting over a Catholic Memorial girls VB player. She landed at Creighton. Lookout Lindsey Gosh. (Marquette recruit for girls VB)
Yeah, the girl verballed during her junior year and then GOT AN EMAIL FROM A UW-MADISON COACH at the end of her junior year telling her that she should look for another school to play at since she hadn't progressed enough. Not even a phone call. Cold, that is.
Oversigning might be the new norm as stated above. If a player is not asked to come back, does he have to sit out for a year? I think the NCAA should at least make it easy to move around.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on October 05, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
Oversigning might be the new norm as stated above. If a player is not asked to come back, does he have to sit out for a year? I think the NCAA should at least make it easy to move around.
But then schools would have to admit that they recruited over a guy's head, and couldn't make the bs excuses that they usually come up with to explain why the worst players in a program always tend to be the ones to leave. The NCAA would never directly condone something like this.
I suspect as this becomes more and more prevalent, the NCAA is going to crack down on it in some fashion. The potential for abuse is pretty big with a lot of stories that make the universities look like cold hearted bastards (at least that's how much of the media will spin it)
Quote from: BrewCity on October 05, 2010, 03:17:32 PM
Yeah, the girl verballed during her junior year and then GOT AN EMAIL FROM A UW-MADISON COACH at the end of her junior year telling her that she should look for another school to play at since she hadn't progressed enough. Not even a phone call. Cold, that is.
Is that similar to hearing on ESPN that your coach has betrayed you?
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 05, 2010, 05:06:02 PM
Is that similar to hearing on ESPN that your coach has betrayed you?
Really?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 05, 2010, 05:08:08 PM
Really?
It had to have been one of the most painful butt jams ever delivered. Thank god we had leaders like Dom James and Wes Matthews to help keep things together. I shudder to think what the gathering at Crean Manor must have been like.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 04, 2010, 05:18:14 PM
Just win baby
Yup...I just hope Buzz wins like the retro Al, not the current Al.
Quote from: bma725 on October 04, 2010, 08:49:14 PM
No they don't. Duke has 4 commitments for 5 scholarships. They only have 10 scholarship players this year, and lose two to graduation giving them 5 for next year.
OK. My bad.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 05, 2010, 05:13:33 PM
It had to have been one of the most painful butt jams ever delivered. Thank god we had leaders like Dom James and Wes Matthews to help keep things together. I shudder to think what the gathering at Crean Manor must have been like.
There have been many butt jams delivered when coaches leave other programs. Some do it right, some don't (TC, O'Neill, etc).
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 06, 2010, 09:43:02 AM
There have been many butt jams delivered when coaches leave other programs. Some do it right, some don't (TC, O'Neill, etc).
I would liken it to a wife leaving a guy for another man. I really only care if it were to be my wife.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 06, 2010, 10:08:15 AM
I would liken it to a wife leaving a guy for another man. I really only care if it were to be my wife.
I know a guy whose wife left him for another woman (next door neighbor). Talk about a cold shot. Hates her more than 4ever hates TC and he'll probably never pass his anger management class.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 06, 2010, 10:08:15 AM
I would liken it to a wife leaving a guy for another man. I really only care if it were to be my wife.
So, then, as a MU fan you've taken it the rear from TC, RM, KO just in the last 2 decades. That's got to hurt. Me, I take it as part of the business of college athletics that almost all coaches leave to another school. Of course, it all comes down to how one leaves and certainly MU has had several examples of how NOT to do it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 06, 2010, 12:18:45 PM
So, then, as a MU fan you've taken it the rear from TC, RM, KO just in the last 2 decades. That's got to hurt. Me, I take it as part of the business of college athletics that almost all coaches leave to another school. Of course, it all comes down to how one leaves and certainly MU has had several examples of how NOT to do it.
Like Lenny says, TC is the wife who left us for another woman. The savagery of that betrayal is like no other.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 06, 2010, 11:08:41 PM
Like Lenny says, TC is the wife who left us for another woman. The savagery of that betrayal is like no other.
So you must really hate KO, who did the double....let MU and left his wife.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 07, 2010, 09:34:16 AM
So you must really hate KO, who did the double....let MU and left his wife.
KO was/is crass, vulgar and boorish but his departure was much less of a betrayal than that of Tom Crean. No. As for KO leaving his wife, I think it was the other way around as his wife grew tired and ashamed of his habitual "prowling." KO's ultimate sin, in my book, was the day he pranced around the MU campus decked out in his putrid Rocky Top orange sweats, his ample fat bulges on proud display. While vulgar it in no way compares with Tom Crean's It's Indiana presser or the shameful way his men had to hear about his betrayal from ESPN. Tom Crean compounded the arrogance by dispatching his henchmen Seltzer and Buckley to Alabama to sway NW from his commitment to MU. Eyewitness accounts noted on this very board that those two Crean accomplices were seen at Mitchell Field sporting IU polos lounging like lizards waiting for a flight to Huntsville. (Later that summer Seltzer and Crean were spotted in gyms across America wearing those clownish IU warm up pants. Now that is ridiculous.)
Besides, KO isn't all bad as he has Canadian roots, eh? He is a proud alum of McGill.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 07, 2010, 10:34:53 AM
KO was/is crass, vulgar and boorish but his departure was much less of a betrayal than that of Tom Crean. No. As for KO leaving his wife, I think it was the other way around as his wife grew tired and ashamed of his habitual "prowling." KO's ultimate sin, in my book, was the day he pranced around the MU campus decked out in his putrid Rocky Top orange sweats, his ample fat bulges on proud display. While vulgar it in no way compares with Tom Crean's It's Indiana presser or the shameful way his men had to hear about his betrayal from ESPN. Tom Crean compounded the arrogance by dispatching his henchmen Seltzer and Buckley to Alabama to sway NW from his commitment to MU. Eyewitness accounts noted on this very board that those two Crean accomplices were seen at Mitchell Field sporting IU polos lounging like lizards waiting for a flight to Huntsville. (Later that summer Seltzer and Crean were spotted in gyms across America wearing those clownish IU warm up pants. Now that is ridiculous.)
Besides, KO isn't all bad as he has Canadian roots, eh? He is a proud alum of McGill.
So here's the post referenced above:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8665.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8665.0)
Of course, if you actually read it, a few facts spoil the rant:
It was O'hare, not Mitchell Field. And the date of the report was 4/13--nearly two weeks after they joined IU. And this was only
after Williams was granted a release by MU--thus there was no longer a possibility that they were on the trip to sway Williams away from MU. And the report made no mention of "IU Polos" or "lounging like lizards". And the flight was reportedly going to Hunstsville, not Mobile.
Of course the report did go on top say that Bennie was a "gracious guy" and thought "we'd do well with Buzz." But those comments don't fit with the storyline of a "betrayal", eh?
Compare that to O'Neill--who chose to flaunt his new team in front of his old players--before any official announcement had been made--and while they were at the NCAA tournament. At least Crean didn't INTEND for his players to learn from ESPN. He never rubbed it in their faces the way O'Neill did with his players or the MU fans. Nor did Crean ever take a shot at MU or its fans after he left the way O'Neill did.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 07, 2010, 10:34:53 AM
KO was/is crass, vulgar and boorish but his departure was much less of a betrayal than that of Tom Crean. No. As for KO leaving his wife, I think it was the other way around as his wife grew tired and ashamed of his habitual "prowling." KO's ultimate sin, in my book, was the day he pranced around the MU campus decked out in his putrid Rocky Top orange sweats, his ample fat bulges on proud display. While vulgar it in no way compares with Tom Crean's It's Indiana presser or the shameful way his men had to hear about his betrayal from ESPN. Tom Crean compounded the arrogance by dispatching his henchmen Seltzer and Buckley to Alabama to sway NW from his commitment to MU. Eyewitness accounts noted on this very board that those two Crean accomplices were seen at Mitchell Field sporting IU polos lounging like lizards waiting for a flight to Huntsville. (Later that summer Seltzer and Crean were spotted in gyms across America wearing those clownish IU warm up pants. Now that is ridiculous.)
Besides, KO isn't all bad as he has Canadian roots, eh? He is a proud alum of McGill.
You really should go back in history then since you obviously don't know the entire story.
Eh!
(http://makeupchick.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bobanddoug1.jpg)
Quote from: Marquette84 on October 07, 2010, 06:22:08 PM
So here's the post referenced above:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8665.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8665.0)
Thanks for the update, Joanie. Perhaps you should remnoive those rose coloured glasses? I see NYWarriors reaction as quoted, "how is that for a kick in the 'nads.......I am here in ORD this morning and look over to see Seltzer and Buckley awaiting an outbound American Eagle flight to Mobile
Lovely"
My sentiments, exactly. Crean's Henchmen on the prowl.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 04, 2010, 08:42:11 PM
Duke currently has four commitments for three scholarships.
It's like an airline overbooking flights, you just have to hope one of them doesn't show up.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 07, 2010, 06:25:52 PM
You really should go back in history then since you obviously don't know the entire story.
You're slapping me on details there mate. Point is, Tom Crean betrayed our tribe and then dispatched his henchmen to pick scrap from the carcass. It's really about the man's general demeanour and behaviour. The man cashed MU's pay cheque while recruiting Nick Williams. I guess you either have charcater, values or integrity or not, eh?