http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2010/9/23/1704802/revisiting-the-big-tens-2010-hoops#storyjump
One of the charts breaks down the number of ranked players over the years from Wisconsin vs Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, etc.
It's a Big Ten article but certainly applies to us to an extent.
From the article.....wow
"With an eye toward expansion in 2011, I noticed Nebraska has had only one player ranked in the entire history of the Rivals150 list. "
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 24, 2010, 02:49:49 PM
From the article.....wow
"With an eye toward expansion in 2011, I noticed Nebraska has had only one player ranked in the entire history of the Rivals150 list. "
I grew up in NE and can tell you that basketball is at best an afterthought in that state.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 24, 2010, 02:49:49 PM
From the article.....wow
"With an eye toward expansion in 2011, I noticed Nebraska has had only one player ranked in the entire history of the Rivals150 list. "
Wasn't Alton Mason from Nebraska? I seem to remember him being a top 100 guy.
Do the name Kerry Trotter ring a bell? Or Vic Lazzaretti?
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 24, 2010, 03:13:38 PM
Wasn't Alton Mason from Nebraska? I seem to remember him being a top 100 guy.
He was, and he was ranked by some analysts, but he predates Rivals.com by a few years. Since 1998 Nebraska has only had one...same as Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and North Dakota.
Quote from: bma725 on September 24, 2010, 05:02:42 PM
He was, and he was ranked by some analysts, but he predates Rivals.com by a few years. Since 1998 Nebraska has only had one...same as Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and North Dakota.
who was the guy? Do you know?
With such weak talent in Wisconsin, this is just one of a 100 reasons why I don't see any need to help junior on the east side. Butler was basically nothing for many decades until this last decade. That's not to say UW-Milwaukee could become a Butler, but I'd just assume not assist by helping them. Two major programs in Wisconsin is plenty as there already isn't enough local talent to make a go of it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 24, 2010, 05:45:48 PM
With such weak talent in Wisconsin, this is just one of a 100 reasons why I don't see any need to help junior on the east side. Butler was basically nothing for many decades until this last decade. That's not to say UW-Milwaukee could become a Butler, but I'd just assume not assist by helping them. Two major programs in Wisconsin is plenty as there already isn't enough local talent to make a go of it.
Who is junior? MATC?
Oh, you mean
little sister UWM?
Indiana has 9 top 150 recruits (per Rivals) since Crean arrived. That ties them with Ohio State at the top of the conference. In that same period Wisconsin has 4, Penn State 2, Northwestern and Iowa 1. IU should be a lock for the NCAAs this year given those numbers. If they fail the natives will be very restless.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 25, 2010, 03:26:57 PM
Indiana has 9 top 150 recruits (per Rivals) since Crean arrived. That ties them with Ohio State at the top of the conference. In that same period Wisconsin has 4, Penn State 2, Northwestern and Iowa 1. IU should be a lock for the NCAAs this year given those numbers. If they fail the natives will be very restless.
That's nice...Fred Glass (the AD) and McRobbie really don't care, but you can pretend to know and play those games all you want. Long term plan in place. They will be a NIT team this year if they stay healthy.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 25, 2010, 05:53:13 PM
That's nice...Fred Glass (the AD) and McRobbie really don't care, but you can pretend to know and play those games all you want. Long tem plan in place. They will be a NIT team this year if they stay healthy.
How can they be in the loser's tournament (NIT) with as many top 150 guys as Ohio State and more than anyone else? And only if nobody gets hurt? (somebody usually does). If I didn't know any better I'd think you were lowballig IU's expectations to make your boy look better.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 25, 2010, 06:20:01 PM
How can they be in the loser's tournament (NIT) with as many top 150 guys as Ohio State and more than anyone else? And only if nobody gets hurt? (somebody usually does). If I didn't know any better I'd think you were lowballig IU's expectations to make your boy look better.
I didn't say if nobody gets hurt, I said if they stay healthy, and that means key guys like Creek, who went down with a season sending injury last year. IU is picked 9th this year, how am I "lowballing" them?
The "loser's tournament"? I'll have to remember that one....your words, not mine.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on September 24, 2010, 05:44:57 PM
who was the guy? Do you know?
Wes Wilkinson, he was #98 in 2002. Played at NU and was a decent player as a senior.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 25, 2010, 06:24:37 PM
I didn't say if nobody gets hurt, I said if they stay healthy, and that means key guys like Creek, who went down with a season sending injury last year. IU is picked 9th this year, how am I "lowballing" them?
The "loser's tournament"? I'll have to remember that one....your words, not mine.
Don't mean to nitpick, but the most common projection I see for IU is 7th or 8th with an NIT bid. Michigan, Penn State and Iowa are all really bad. Northwestern should be okay. So of course you are not really "lowballing" them. Unless you are among those who think preseason prognostications are crap and that those who engage in it as a profession are a lazy bunch of knownothings. Or maybe they're lazy about Marquette but thorough and reliable when it comes to Indiana. To me that seems unlikely, even contradictory.
As to the NIT being the "losers tournament", I'll stand by that statement. For an extremely young team, a midmajor or a perennial loser it can be a valuable building block. For others it's an unwelcome consolation prize for a disappointing season.
I dont get it ... Glass and Mc Robbie dont care than Cream has won 10 games in 2 years or they dont care that Indiana talent continues to shun Tom Crean?
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 26, 2010, 12:27:43 PM
I dont get it ... Glass and Mc Robbie dont care than Cream has won 10 games in 2 years or they dont care that Indian? talent continues to shun Tom Crean?
And here I thought they just got three solid commitments from Indiana kids...or was that Indian <sic>?
Does news travel really slowly down there to Plymouth?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2010, 10:46:31 AM
Don't mean to nitpick, but the most common projection I see for IU is 7th or 8th with an NIT bid.
I'd love to see those that pick IU to finish 7th.
Sporting News picks them 9th
Athlon picks them 8th
Loser's Tournament...so if Buzz takes us to the NIT in his career I just want to understand that we're in the Losers Tournament.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 26, 2010, 12:56:45 PM
I'd love to see those that pick IU to finish 7th.
Sporting News picks them 9th
Athlon picks them 8th
Loser's Tournament...so if Buzz takes us to the NIT in his career I just want to understand that we're in the Losers Tournament.
Let me see if I get this straight. When The Sporting News, Athlon, etc. make projections on Indiana it's fair to use them as reasonable expectations. When they make them for Marquette they are the meaningless ramblings of the lazy and uninformed. Fair expectations for MU can only be made by impartial guys like our pal 84. Please explain these seeming contradictions.
It would appear Chica still needs a few more years to judge Buzz.
However, after 10 wins in two years with ateam that has regualrly gotten blownout and quit on their coach, Chica apparently deems it appropriate to deem Cream's time a success. Apparently signing a few low level instate talents while the cream of the crop flee is success. beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2010, 01:36:58 PM
Let me see if I get this straight. When The Sporting News, Athlon, etc. make projections on Indiana it's fair to use them as reasonable expectations. When they make them for Marquette they are the meaningless ramblings of the lazy and uninformed. Fair expectations for MU can only be made by impartial guys like our pal 84. Please explain these seeming contradictions.
Actually it's the pollsters that are lazy and uninformed.
Now, where are all those predictions of 7th place you spoke about. Thanks
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 26, 2010, 01:58:21 PM
It would appear Chica still needs a few more years to judge Buzz.
However, after 10 wins in two years with ateam that has regualrly gotten blownout and quit on their coach, Chica apparently deems it appropriate to deem Cream's time a success. Apparently signing a few low level instate talents while the cream of the crop flee is success. beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.
Robert, I judge Crean the same why I judge Buzz. I'll give them each 5 years...difference is that Crean has already proven it once at a school...Buzz is in process, but still hasn't been at it long enough. So far the record on the court is very good (off the court....I squirm).
You'll have to remind me how top 40 kids are "low level" recruits....when reading your posts a top 40 kid is a top recruit...personally, I don't like the recruiting gurus much until the kids actually play. Most of the recruiting gurus only see these kids a few times and typically at these big tournaments. Nevertheless, that's where they are ranked. What's odd for me to understand is why a ranking of say 37th in the country is "low level" if the kid goes to IU but 37 would be "elite" if he went to MU....at least based on how you post here. That's strange, but Robert you are one strange guy to begin with. I had to chuckle at your "getting laid" comments the other. Looking at you, it's hard to fathom you ever getting laid by anything other Rosey and her 5 sisters.
Chicos, your use of posters' first names is creepy. It displays stalker tendancies, and it says something about your current mental state. Also, please stop with the unfounded, baseless references to things that make you "squirm." You know damn well recruits and their families read these boards, and these unfounded, baseless claims definitely tarnish MU's reputation in a very unfair way. Stop. It's annoying. You've been an extreme net negative on this board for the entire offseason. Do you even like MU hoops? or do you just like to draw attention to yourself?
"Robert, I judge Crean the same why I judge Buzz. I'll give them each 5 years...difference is that Crean has already proven it once at a school...Buzz is in process, but still hasn't been at it long enough. So far the record on the court is very good (off the court....I squirm)."
Crean treated people around the program like crap Chico or are you forgetting that and this made me squirm to the point of at least 3 emails to Bill Cords about coach and player turnover? His assistant coaching turnover was disgusting and that's why he achieved his high water mark in 2003. After Tim Buckley, Dwayne Stephens and Darrin Horn left off of original staff, it was a revolving door and Crean's lucky he got a guy like Tim Buckley to come back at his side to keep things intact. Hopefully Tom has matured, because he burned more bridges than George Patton and I'm told by someone that he wasn't liked by a lot of people in the Michigan State athletic department either.
I agree there have been a couple touchy things under Buzz so far and I hope he's realized this and will improve on that aspect, but at least Dale Layer still comes back to Milwaukee periodically to visit with Buzz, something guys like Dan Panaggio and Denny Kuipers will probably never do and I seriously think Crean has an issue with people in general and needs a little shrinky talk.
Quote from: TedBaxter on September 26, 2010, 05:25:36 PM
"Robert, I judge Crean the same why I judge Buzz. I'll give them each 5 years...difference is that Crean has already proven it once at a school...Buzz is in process, but still hasn't been at it long enough. So far the record on the court is very good (off the court....I squirm)."
Crean treated people around the program like crap Chico or are you forgetting that and this made me squirm to the point of at least 3 emails to Bill Cords about coach and player turnover? His assistant coaching turnover was disgusting and that's why he achieved his high water mark in 2003. After Tim Buckley, Dwayne Stephens and Darrin Horn left off of original staff, it was a revolving door and Crean's lucky he got a guy like Tim Buckley to come back at his side to keep things intact. Hopefully Tom has matured, because he burned more bridges than George Patton and I'm told by someone that he wasn't liked by a lot of people in the Michigan State athletic department either.
I agree there have been a couple touchy things under Buzz so far and I hope he's realized this and will improve on that aspect, but at least Dale Layer still comes back to Milwaukee periodically to visit with Buzz, something guys like Dan Panaggio and Denny Kuipers will probably never do and I seriously think Crean has an issue with people in general and needs a little shrinky talk.
Not forgetting it all. He treated many of my friends that worked there like complete trash. He's an a-hole and I've said it time and time and time again. He's not a human being that I would put in the good category in terms of personal relationships. No doubt and no argument from me at all.
I think Tim Buckley is world class good person, and I agree that he is top notch. I have nothing but positive things to say about Dwyane, Horn, and Tim. All great guys (Horn can be tough as well, but a great guy).
But having a a_hole personality isn't what's at issue here....Bob Knight had one also when I was at IU, but he ran a very clean program. Bo Ryan is a world class douche, but he also runs a clean program. Ben Howland is a guy that is tough to get along with for many people and certainly many colleagues and players, but same thing....no hints of anything on the wrong side of the ledger.
Quote from: Ready2Fly on September 26, 2010, 05:16:51 PM
Chicos, your use of posters' first names is creepy. It displays stalker tendancies, and it says something about your current mental state. Also, please stop with the unfounded, baseless references to things that make you "squirm." You know damn well recruits and their families read these boards, and these unfounded, baseless claims definitely tarnish MU's reputation in a very unfair way. Stop. It's annoying. You've been an extreme net negative on this board for the entire offseason. Do you even like MU hoops? or do you just like to draw attention to yourself?
Considering what Robert has done to me and a few other posters here, I give what I get. An eye for an eye. I could really give a rip if you like it or not. There are a lot of people's names here I know but I don't use them, but if someone is going to play the games that Robert has, then you're damn right I'm going to play the same game....an eye for an eye.
I love MU Hoops Ready, that's the whole point. I'd like us to continue winning and doing it the RIGHT WAY in the process. Sorry that some people don't care about the latter and only care about the former.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 26, 2010, 05:45:47 PM
Considering what Robert has done to me and a few other posters here, I give what I get. An eye for an eye. I could really give a rip if you like it or not. There are a lot of people's names here I know but I don't use them, but if someone is going to play the games that Robert has, then you're damn right I'm going to play the same game....an eye for an eye.
I love MU Hoops Ready, that's the whole point. I'd like us to continue winning and doing it the RIGHT WAY in the process. Sorry that some people don't care about the latter and only care about the former.
We are doing it the right way. Stop insinuating otherwise.
Iu signed the 37th rated player...news to me. They have Etherington who is vastly overated as a 4 star. in fact, Scout has him rated as the 22nd best SF and most services do not have him in the top 100.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 26, 2010, 07:43:51 PM
Iu signed the 37th rated player...news to me. They have Etherington who is vastly overated as a 4 star. in fact, Scout has him rated as the 22nd best SF and most services do not have him in the top 100.
Crean has signed some good talent to IU in his time there as evidenced by this article. Unfortunately, it hasn't translated on the court. Nick Williams was good but transferred. Given Creans history of players leaving his program after being in the program for at least a year - I'm sure he'll continue to have some roster turnover. So far it appears he is continuing the same trend he had at Marquette sign a good class once every 3 years. That said, given the amount of Top 150 players he has on his roster now, there really is no reason to think he can't guide Indiana to a Top 5 finish in the Big Ten when looking across the league at different talent recruiting into the programs. MSU, Illinois, Ohio State, Purdue are clear leaders in the talent acquistion department..after that Indiana heads up the list.
wonder how long even 5th place finishes will keep Chico and other IU faithful happy. I guess 5th is better than 11th, but for how long. Crean is not half the coach or recruiter of the coaches at the schools you mention so we will see if he can get out of the back or middle of the pack despite himself. Expect tubby and Bo to outperform him too, keeping Naismith at the bottom of the pack
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 26, 2010, 07:43:51 PM
Iu signed the 37th rated player...news to me. They have Etherington who is vastly overated as a 4 star. in fact, Scout has him rated as the 22nd best SF and most services do not have him in the top 100.
Yea Chicos, not sure where you got that they signed #37 player. Their highest rated signing by ESPN, Scout, or Rivals for the '10, '11, and '12 classes is #53. Thats Peter Jurkin, rated that high by ESPN for the '12 class, but #137 by Rivals and 3star by Scout.
Crean's 2012 class looks nice, and his '09 was pretty good. But his '10 looks weak, and he hasn't gotten much done yet for the '11 class.
Figured since it's on the topic of Crean he got a commitment for another 2014 kid. I wonder if either of these kids will play for Indiana. Also, who knows if the rest of their class catches up to them.
We can't even get a 2011 commitment and Crean's already got 2 for 2014. We may never get one.
Quote from: cheebs09 on September 26, 2010, 11:54:36 PM
Figured since it's on the topic of Crean he got a commitment for another 2014 kid. I wonder if either of these kids will play for Indiana. Also, who knows if the rest of their class catches up to them.
We can't even get a 2011 commitment and Crean's already got 2 for 2014. We may never get one.
My guess is they will work out about as well as Anthony Green did for him. 50/50 chance he is still there in 2014, and if he is the groundswell of furious Iu fans will be so great it will kill all local recruiting efforts. Just watch and see this slow motion trainwreck.
Crean's a prick and it is poetic justice that he sits with a case of major swamp ass after brewing unlimited stomach lattes.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 26, 2010, 07:43:51 PM
Iu signed the 37th rated player...news to me. They have Etherington who is vastly overated as a 4 star. in fact, Scout has him rated as the 22nd best SF and most services do not have him in the top 100.
I didn't say signed, I said they got a commitment from the 37th best player in a particular class. News does travel slowly to Plymouth.
Jurkin, ranked 37th in one service (again, I don't particularly give a rip about these rankings, my only point it posting it is you are such a damn hypocrite when it comes to this stuff). My guess is they land Yogi Ferrell, who will be another top 50 kid. So all I can think at this point is that there is a cone of silence in Plymouth where news just bumps off your plastic bubble.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/432780-what-peter-jurkins-committment-means-to-the-hoosiers
Now, the funniest part is you saying a player is "vastly overrated". Based on your ability to judge players on this board over the years, that's a whopper. Remember that beauty from you that Mbao merely needed to add some pounds and he would be All Big East. Yes, you definitely know how to pick the players and determine who is good or not (something tells me you have a built in rating depending on who the coach is).
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 26, 2010, 11:42:24 PM
Yea Chicos, not sure where you got that they signed #37 player. Their highest rated signing by ESPN, Scout, or Rivals for the '10, '11, and '12 classes is #53. Thats Peter Jurkin, rated that high by ESPN for the '12 class, but #137 by Rivals and 3star by Scout.
Crean's 2012 class looks nice, and his '09 was pretty good. But his '10 looks weak, and he hasn't gotten much done yet for the '11 class.
I never said "signed"...I said a "strong commitment"....please remember the person who said signed was Canadian Dimes, who is practically a functional illiterate on here half the time.
Jurkin was 37th when he announced his decision. I provided backup. In one service he was 16th. These rankings don't mean a hill of beans, that wasn't the point...it's how CD has two sets of rules when using them that is at issue.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 26, 2010, 05:45:47 PM
Considering what Robert has done to me and a few other posters here, I give what I get. An eye for an eye. I could really give a rip if you like it or not. There are a lot of people's names here I know but I don't use them, but if someone is going to play the games that Robert has, then you're damn right I'm going to play the same game....an eye for an eye.
Wow... not only creepy but childish...i feel bad for any former girlfriends/boyfriends.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 27, 2010, 12:23:29 PM
Wow... not only creepy but childish...i feel bad for any former girlfriends/boyfriends.
Don't pretend like you haven't gotten way too personal with him in the past.
You are both acting like dorks, though. That's right. Dorks.
Quote from: Ners on September 26, 2010, 07:56:53 PM
That said, given the amount of Top 150 players he has on his roster now, there really is no reason to think he can't guide Indiana to a Top 5 finish in the Big Ten when looking across the league at different talent recruiting into the programs. MSU, Illinois, Ohio State, Purdue are clear leaders in the talent acquistion department..after that Indiana heads up the list.
I think the big thing is that Crean and IU overcome Purdue on the talent acquisition list. When they do that and dominate in state, they will really start to make headway in the Big10/12 and beyond. But so long as Purdue is a major player in TT's recruiting, IU wont make the progress to appease the fanbase. They've got to at the very least win the state.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 26, 2010, 07:43:51 PM
Iu signed the 37th rated player...news to me. They have Etherington who is vastly overated as a 4 star. in fact, Scout has him rated as the 22nd best SF and most services do not have him in the top 100.
Since this probably won't hit Plymouth, Indiana until roughly February....another one today....some saying could be the best player in the country for that class.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2014
http://www.insidethehall.com/2010/09/26/lyles-adds-his-name-to-indianas-2014-class/
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 26, 2010, 05:01:46 PM
Actually it's the pollsters that are lazy and uninformed.
Now, where are all those predictions of 7th place you spoke about. Thanks
My bad. Projections regularly showed 2 or 3 teams trailing IU. In the old Big Ten that meant 7th or 8th. In the new one (Big 11?) it means 8th or 9th. Sorry.
Still waiting to hear how you can use The Sporting News to provide fair expectations for IU this year but mock anyone who did likewise regarding their expectations for MU last year. Classic hypocrisy.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 27, 2010, 06:02:54 PM
My bad. Projections regularly showed 2 or 3 teams trailing IU. In the old Big Ten that meant 7th or 8th. In the new one (Big 11?) it means 8th or 9th. Sorry.
Still waiting to hear how you can use The Sporting News to provide fair expectations for IU this year but mock anyone who did likewise regarding their expectations for MU last year. Classic hypocrisy.
I don't recall mocking anyone here last year for how they picked MU to finish. I do recall, however, many people mocking '84 and saying he was just setting up Buzz for failure. Seems to me that he actually put thought behind his predictions and got it right.
Honestly, I just don't trust the pollsters and magazines as I've stated over the years. Yes, they are nice benchmarks but so much is just classic wet the finger and stick it in the air and guess. In my mind, MU will finish probably 6th this year with upward mobility of 4th and downward possibility of 9th. IU, I think will finish 8th and surprise a few teams if they stay healthy, got to that "loser's tournament".
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 27, 2010, 05:10:35 PM
Since this probably won't hit Plymouth, Indiana until roughly February....another one today....some saying could be the best player in the country for that class.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2014
http://www.insidethehall.com/2010/09/26/lyles-adds-his-name-to-indianas-2014-class/
Hopefully for IU both of these kids stick, and that they haven't peaked early like some kids do. On another note, in looking at the list of Rivals 150 players signed by schools in Big 10 from 2008-2009 - Crean's first 2 years on the job - I was surprised to find that Indiana recruited best in this 2-year window with regard to Top 150 prospects. Now why that has translated into a last place finish and a tie for 2nd last in the Big 10 is puzzling. Crean was able to have a lot of success at MU with the Big 3 as freshman, and virtually no other help outside of Novak. The 2007 IU recruiting class had 3 Top 150 recruits..so the cupboard wasn't too bare - but I guess a few of those kids chose to transfer (Jordan Crawford comes to mind) once Crean was named coach. This should be a telling year for IU and TC..by Year 3 he really should have some traction/progress to speak of..and most IU fans don't perceive their program to be anything less than a Big 10 championship caliber team..so he'll soon have to get them into the Top 3 or so teams in the Big 10 for the natives NOT to get restless.