Interesting article on Midwest talent by state

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2010/9/23/1704802/revisiting-the-big-tens-2010-hoops#storyjump


One of the charts breaks down the number of ranked players over the years from Wisconsin vs Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, etc.

It's a Big Ten article but certainly applies to us to an extent.

[MarkCharles]

From the article.....wow

"With an eye toward expansion in 2011, I noticed Nebraska has had only one player ranked in the entire history of the Rivals150 list. "

[ATL MU Warrior]

From the article.....wow

"With an eye toward expansion in 2011, I noticed Nebraska has had only one player ranked in the entire history of the Rivals150 list. "

I grew up in NE and can tell you that basketball is at best an afterthought in that state. 

[MUfan12]

From the article.....wow

"With an eye toward expansion in 2011, I noticed Nebraska has had only one player ranked in the entire history of the Rivals150 list. "

Wasn't Alton Mason from Nebraska? I seem to remember him being a top 100 guy.

[4everwarriors]

Do the name Kerry Trotter ring a bell? Or Vic Lazzaretti?

[bma725]

Wasn't Alton Mason from Nebraska? I seem to remember him being a top 100 guy.

He was, and he was ranked by some analysts, but he predates Rivals.com by a few years.  Since 1998 Nebraska has only had one...same as Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and North Dakota.

[ATL MU Warrior]

He was, and he was ranked by some analysts, but he predates Rivals.com by a few years.  Since 1998 Nebraska has only had one...same as Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and North Dakota.

who was the guy?  Do you know?

[ChicosBailBonds]

With such weak talent in Wisconsin, this is just one of a 100 reasons why I don't see any need to help junior on the east side.  Butler was basically nothing for many decades until this last decade.  That's not to say UW-Milwaukee could become a Butler, but I'd just assume not assist by helping them.  Two major programs in Wisconsin is plenty as there already isn't enough local talent to make a go of it. 

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

With such weak talent in Wisconsin, this is just one of a 100 reasons why I don't see any need to help junior on the east side.  Butler was basically nothing for many decades until this last decade.  That's not to say UW-Milwaukee could become a Butler, but I'd just assume not assist by helping them.  Two major programs in Wisconsin is plenty as there already isn't enough local talent to make a go of it. 

Who is junior? MATC?

Oh, you mean little sister UWM?

[Lennys Tap]

Indiana has 9 top 150 recruits (per Rivals) since Crean arrived. That ties them with Ohio State at the top of the conference. In that same period Wisconsin has 4, Penn State 2, Northwestern and Iowa 1. IU should be a lock for the NCAAs this year given those numbers. If they fail the natives will be very restless.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Indiana has 9 top 150 recruits (per Rivals) since Crean arrived. That ties them with Ohio State at the top of the conference. In that same period Wisconsin has 4, Penn State 2, Northwestern and Iowa 1. IU should be a lock for the NCAAs this year given those numbers. If they fail the natives will be very restless.

That's nice...Fred Glass (the AD) and McRobbie really don't care, but you can pretend to know and play those games all you want.  Long term plan in place.  They will be a NIT team this year if they stay healthy.

[Lennys Tap]

That's nice...Fred Glass (the AD) and McRobbie really don't care, but you can pretend to know and play those games all you want.  Long tem plan in place.  They will be a NIT team this year if they stay healthy.

How can they be in the loser's tournament (NIT) with as many top 150 guys as Ohio State and more than anyone else? And only if nobody gets hurt? (somebody usually does). If I didn't know any better I'd think you were lowballig IU's expectations to make your boy look better.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How can they be in the loser's tournament (NIT) with as many top 150 guys as Ohio State and more than anyone else? And only if nobody gets hurt? (somebody usually does). If I didn't know any better I'd think you were lowballig IU's expectations to make your boy look better.

I didn't say if nobody gets hurt, I said if they stay healthy, and that means key guys like Creek, who went down with a season sending injury last year.  IU is picked 9th this year, how am I "lowballing" them? 

The "loser's tournament"?  I'll have to remember that one....your words, not mine.

[bma725]

who was the guy?  Do you know?

Wes Wilkinson, he was #98 in 2002.  Played at NU and was a decent player as a senior.

[Lennys Tap]

I didn't say if nobody gets hurt, I said if they stay healthy, and that means key guys like Creek, who went down with a season sending injury last year.  IU is picked 9th this year, how am I "lowballing" them?  

The "loser's tournament"?  I'll have to remember that one....your words, not mine.

Don't mean to nitpick, but the most common projection I see for IU is 7th or 8th with an NIT bid. Michigan, Penn State and Iowa are all really bad. Northwestern should be okay. So of course you are not really "lowballing" them. Unless you are among those who think preseason prognostications are crap and that those who engage in it as a profession are a lazy bunch of knownothings. Or maybe they're lazy about Marquette but thorough and reliable when it comes to Indiana. To me that seems unlikely, even contradictory.

As to the NIT being the "losers tournament", I'll stand by that statement. For an extremely young team, a midmajor or a perennial loser it can be a valuable building block. For others it's an unwelcome consolation prize for a disappointing season.

[Canadian Dimes]

I dont get it ... Glass and Mc Robbie dont care than Cream has won 10 games in 2 years or they dont care that Indiana talent continues to shun Tom Crean?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I dont get it ... Glass and Mc Robbie dont care than Cream has won 10 games in 2 years or they dont care that Indian? talent continues to shun Tom Crean?

And here I thought they just got three solid commitments from Indiana kids...or was that Indian <sic>?

Does news travel really slowly down there to Plymouth?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't mean to nitpick, but the most common projection I see for IU is 7th or 8th with an NIT bid.

I'd love to see those that pick IU to finish 7th.

Sporting News picks them 9th

Athlon picks them 8th

Loser's Tournament...so if Buzz takes us to the NIT in his career I just want to understand that we're in the Losers Tournament. 

[Lennys Tap]

I'd love to see those that pick IU to finish 7th.

Sporting News picks them 9th

Athlon picks them 8th

Loser's Tournament...so if Buzz takes us to the NIT in his career I just want to understand that we're in the Losers Tournament. 

Let me see if I get this straight. When The Sporting News, Athlon, etc. make projections on Indiana it's fair to use them as reasonable expectations. When they make them for Marquette they are the meaningless ramblings of the lazy and uninformed. Fair expectations for MU can only be made by impartial guys like our pal 84. Please explain these seeming contradictions.

[Canadian Dimes]

It would appear Chica still needs a few more years to judge Buzz.

However, after 10 wins in two years with ateam that has regualrly gotten blownout and quit on their coach, Chica apparently deems it appropriate to deem Cream's time a success.  Apparently signing a few low level instate talents while the cream of the crop flee is success.  beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let me see if I get this straight. When The Sporting News, Athlon, etc. make projections on Indiana it's fair to use them as reasonable expectations. When they make them for Marquette they are the meaningless ramblings of the lazy and uninformed. Fair expectations for MU can only be made by impartial guys like our pal 84. Please explain these seeming contradictions.

Actually it's the pollsters that are lazy and uninformed.

Now, where are all those predictions of 7th place you spoke about.  Thanks

[ChicosBailBonds]

It would appear Chica still needs a few more years to judge Buzz.

However, after 10 wins in two years with ateam that has regualrly gotten blownout and quit on their coach, Chica apparently deems it appropriate to deem Cream's time a success.  Apparently signing a few low level instate talents while the cream of the crop flee is success.  beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

Robert, I judge Crean the same why I judge Buzz.  I'll give them each 5 years...difference is that Crean has already proven it once at a school...Buzz is in process, but still hasn't been at it long enough.  So far the record on the court is very good (off the court....I squirm).

You'll have to remind me how top 40 kids are "low level" recruits....when reading your posts a top 40 kid is a top recruit...personally, I don't like the recruiting gurus much until the kids actually play.  Most of the recruiting gurus only see these kids a few times and typically at these big tournaments.  Nevertheless, that's where they are ranked.  What's odd for me to understand is why a ranking of say 37th in the country is "low level" if the kid goes to IU but 37 would be "elite" if he went to MU....at least based on how you post here.  That's strange, but Robert you are one strange guy to begin with.  I had to chuckle at your "getting laid" comments the other.  Looking at you, it's hard to fathom you ever getting laid by anything other Rosey and her 5 sisters.

[Ready2Fly]

Chicos, your use of posters' first names is creepy. It displays stalker tendancies, and it says something about your current mental state. Also, please stop with the unfounded, baseless references to things that make you "squirm." You know damn well recruits and their families read these boards, and these unfounded, baseless claims definitely tarnish MU's reputation in a very unfair way. Stop. It's annoying. You've been an extreme net negative on this board for the entire offseason. Do you even like MU hoops? or do you just like to draw attention to yourself?

[TedBaxter]

"Robert, I judge Crean the same why I judge Buzz.  I'll give them each 5 years...difference is that Crean has already proven it once at a school...Buzz is in process, but still hasn't been at it long enough.  So far the record on the court is very good (off the court....I squirm)."

Crean treated people around the program like crap Chico or are you forgetting that and this made me squirm to the point of at least 3 emails to Bill Cords about coach and player turnover?  His assistant coaching turnover was disgusting and that's why he achieved his high water mark in 2003.  After Tim Buckley, Dwayne Stephens and Darrin Horn left off of original staff, it was a revolving door and Crean's lucky he got a guy like Tim Buckley to come back at his side to keep things intact.  Hopefully Tom has matured, because he burned more bridges than George Patton and I'm told by someone that he wasn't liked by a lot of people in the Michigan State athletic department either.

I agree there have been a couple touchy things under Buzz so far and I hope he's realized this and will improve on that aspect, but at least Dale Layer still comes back to Milwaukee periodically to visit with Buzz, something guys like Dan Panaggio and Denny Kuipers will probably never do and I seriously think Crean has an issue with people in general and needs a little shrinky talk.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Robert, I judge Crean the same why I judge Buzz.  I'll give them each 5 years...difference is that Crean has already proven it once at a school...Buzz is in process, but still hasn't been at it long enough.  So far the record on the court is very good (off the court....I squirm)."

Crean treated people around the program like crap Chico or are you forgetting that and this made me squirm to the point of at least 3 emails to Bill Cords about coach and player turnover?  His assistant coaching turnover was disgusting and that's why he achieved his high water mark in 2003.  After Tim Buckley, Dwayne Stephens and Darrin Horn left off of original staff, it was a revolving door and Crean's lucky he got a guy like Tim Buckley to come back at his side to keep things intact.  Hopefully Tom has matured, because he burned more bridges than George Patton and I'm told by someone that he wasn't liked by a lot of people in the Michigan State athletic department either.

I agree there have been a couple touchy things under Buzz so far and I hope he's realized this and will improve on that aspect, but at least Dale Layer still comes back to Milwaukee periodically to visit with Buzz, something guys like Dan Panaggio and Denny Kuipers will probably never do and I seriously think Crean has an issue with people in general and needs a little shrinky talk.  

Not forgetting it all.  He treated many of my friends that worked there like complete trash.  He's an a-hole and I've said it time and time and time again.  He's not a human being that I would put in the good category in terms of personal relationships.  No doubt and no argument from me at all.

I think Tim Buckley is world class good person, and I agree that he is top notch.  I have nothing but positive things to say about Dwyane, Horn, and Tim.  All great guys (Horn can be tough as well, but a great guy).

But having a a_hole personality isn't what's at issue here....Bob Knight had one also when I was at IU, but he ran a very clean program.  Bo Ryan is a world class douche, but he also runs a clean program.  Ben Howland is a guy that is tough to get along with for many people and certainly many colleagues and players, but same thing....no hints of anything on the wrong side of the ledger.