So much for Bo Ryan can't recruit
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2011&classmonth=9&rank=25&viewmore=yes&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmens-college-basketball%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2011%26classmonth%3d9%26rank%3d25%26viewmore%3dyes
ESPN is always the best place to look for evaluating recruiting classes
That will change as the top recruits commit to the schools of their liking. There are still plenty of topp 100 recruits that are undecided at this point. It is to early to rate recruiting classes, unless we are talking about Kentucky, which is well on its way to being the number one class for 2011.
It also helps that they have four commitments thus far. A lot of people haven't committed yet.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2010, 02:12:31 PM
So much for Bo Ryan can't recruit
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2011&classmonth=9&rank=25&viewmore=yes&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmens-college-basketball%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2011%26classmonth%3d9%26rank%3d25%26viewmore%3dyes
0 top 100 recruits. Count me impressed.
7 Big East teams in top 25 at the time of the Poll. I think that is the real news.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 23, 2010, 02:19:21 PM
0 top 100 recruits. Count me impressed.
I'll bet that despite that, they still finish in the top upper third of the Big Ten 90% of the time. It works for them and works very well.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2010, 02:43:02 PM
I'll bet that despite that, they still finish in the top upper third of the Big Ten 90% of the time. It works for them and works very well.
Not disagreeing there. I'm just pointing out the fact that they have the number 25 recruiting class of 2011 before many top 100 recruits have committed to schools doesn't mean that Bo can all of a sudden magically recruit. He recruits the kids that work for his system and he coaches them up to be a good Big Televen team, but not NCAA Tournament team. That has nothing to do with how talented his recruits are.
The Badgers will continue their winning ways under Ryan. Have to admire what he's accomplished. Bo Ryan=legendary
Congrats to Bo on a fine class. They all seem to be perfect for the swing. Which means he will be successful in the B10-11-12 and flameout in the tourney. None of the players appear to me to be game changers who can take over a game when the other, more athletic, Cornell of the world is beating the swing and the man to man.
I saw one of these ratings in the beginning of the summer (I think it was on Rivals), and The Badgers class was #14. Now as more and more guys are starting to sign, their class doesn't look so good in comparison. The only reason they were so highly rated is that they had 4 solid guys.
I don't mean to re-hash an old debate, but Bo certainly can recruit. He brought in a lot more top-100 guys than Crean did during those years, including two 5stars. Its just that his recent classes have only been solid, nothing more though.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 23, 2010, 03:18:33 PM
I saw one of these ratings in the beginning of the summer (I think it was on Rivals), and The Badgers class was #14. Now as more and more guys are starting to sign, their class doesn't look so good in comparison. The only reason they were so highly rated is that they had 4 solid guys.
I don't mean to re-hash an old debate, but Bo certainly can recruit. He brought in a lot more top-100 guys than Crean did during those years, including two 5stars. Its just that his recent classes have only been solid, nothing more though.
He should have...he had a better program at the time, better facilities by a mile, inherited a Final Four team, better conference and is THE state school. Absolutely zero reason with those conditions in play at that time that they shouldn't have built in advantages to get better players.
He's an effective coach. But I prefer Buzz..... :)
We should be asking the question: Where the hell is MU in these rankings?
Quote from: willie warrior on September 23, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
We should be asking the question: Where the hell is MU in these rankings?
Waiting on targets that would vault us in the top 15 on these rankings. Just because we aren't in them now doesn't mean we won't be when it's all said and done. It's still early. Heck some of our best players are guys we didn't know about until they signed in the spring.
Quote from: willie warrior on September 23, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
We should be asking the question: Where the hell is MU in these rankings?
Well, since we have no one signed for 2011.... ::)
dont forget Jamil Wilson and Dave Singleton who has looked good. Buzz will add players and we will be solid.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2010, 03:30:29 PM
He should have...he had a better program at the time, better facilities by a mile, inherited a Final Four team, better conference and is THE state school. Absolutely zero reason with those conditions in play at that time that they shouldn't have built in advantages to get better players.
Having said this about Bo Ryan, what seems to be the problem for Tom Crean currently at Indiana? Is it the lack of a Final Four since 2002? I mean they aren't under any scholarship limitations, TV appearance limitations, nor are they restricted from post season tournament appearances as a result of the Sampson scandal. Additionally they have a ton of playing time to offer, are widely considered a Top 5 all-time college basketball program. What gives?
Crean's an idiot.
Quote from: willie warrior on September 23, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
We should be asking the question: Where the hell is MU in these rankings?
Go visit 2010 and 2009 class rankings - and then go find me the last time Marquette was even listed in the Top 25 recruiting class rankings, much less in back to back years. And now you want us to make 3 consecutive Top 25 recruiting class rankings? Give it a rest.
Quote from: Ners on September 23, 2010, 07:00:46 PM
And now you want us to make 3 consecutive Top 25 recruiting class rankings? Give it a rest.
For the record, I want us to make 3 consecutive top 25's, but I'm not gonna' hold it against Buzz if we miss the cut this year. Oddly, I think Buzz would think it's a disappointment, so maybe I should raise my standards.
Quote from: willie warrior on September 23, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
We should be asking the question: Where the hell is MU in these rankings?
Shooting for the stars rather than signing the first four swingworthy players to say yes. We may end up with a down class. Assuming that what is already on campus is as good as we think/hope it is, exactly what is a dire need?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 23, 2010, 07:15:27 PM
For the record, I want us to make 3 consecutive top 25's, but I'm not gonna' hold it against Buzz if we miss the cut this year. Oddly, I think Buzz would think it's a disappointment, so maybe I should raise my standards.
I agree with your point in its entirety. Just take offense to good old Willie Warrior always trying to give Buzz a black eye.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 23, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
The Badgers will continue their winning ways under Ryan. Have to admire what he's accomplished. Bo Ryan=legendary
While I agree that Bo is a good coach, was that last part supposed to be teal? Since when does one elite 8 and two sweet sixteens make you legendary? Unless you are counting his D3 accomplishments that is a tough claim.
Quote from: LA on September 23, 2010, 07:53:18 PM
While I agree that Bo is a good coach, was that last part supposed to be teal? Since when does one elite 8 and two sweet sixteens make you legendary? Unless you are counting his D3 accomplishments that is a tough claim.
Just having a little fun at Chicos expense.
Bo Ryan=legendary
he's no Tom Crean....
Quote from: madtownwarrior on September 23, 2010, 08:15:33 PM
Bo Ryan=legendary
he's no Tom Crean....
Bo's a double-edged sword. He's a great fit for the Badgers. Brings that tough, hard-working mentality that is typified by Big Ten play. However, he has never and will never make them a truly elite program. They're good enough to be a constant in the top 25, and good enough to occasionally make the top 15, but will never become a staple in that upper echelon. It's a small difference, especially for a program that was so moribund for so long, but it's a notable one.
Crean definitely hit paydirt with Wade, and has built his career off of that. He's also got a bit of that used-car salesman sort of aura, which was evident in his past few years at Marquette when it seemed all he wanted every year was to get a raise or get a new job. But I don't find it unfathomable that he could turn Indiana around. That he could parlay his relationship with Wade into a high-profile one-and-done that put Indiana back on the map and allow their history and one good run to vault them back to the top.
I'm not saying it will happen, but as good as Ryan has been for Wisconsin, Crean is still closer to having an elite program at Indiana simply because with him in place there they have the potential, slim though it may be, of nabbing that top-level star and maintaining it. Wisconsin, on the other hand, has proven that even when they reach a Final Four, even when they crack the top 5 of the rankings, they simply can't stay there or use that momentum to keep them as that type of team.
At the end of the day, it's really what you want out of a coach. Someone who is a consistent grinder, who will typify your conference, yet never lift you up alongside the Dukes, North Carolinas, or UCLAs of the world, or a coach who may lack the consistency but has the potential to crack that upper echelon.
All that being said...I'd take Buzz over either of them. But that's just because I think that we got a fantastic mix of luck and timing in his hiring. Crean picked the right assistant, the University did the right thing in ignoring the please of alumni to widen the search, and the closest thing we have to egg on our face is one of the fastest rising coaches in the game today. That's a consolation prize I would never scoff at.
Quote from: Ners on September 23, 2010, 06:58:36 PM
Having said this about Bo Ryan, what seems to be the problem for Tom Crean currently at Indiana? Is it the lack of a Final Four since 2002? I mean they aren't under any scholarship limitations, TV appearance limitations, nor are they restricted from post season tournament appearances as a result of the Sampson scandal. Additionally they have a ton of playing time to offer, are widely considered a Top 5 all-time college basketball program. What gives?
I would imagine it had to do with NCAA probation, having to tell perspective recruits if you go there you won't be able to go to the NCAA tournament due to probation, having to start the program from scratch, etc.
That's just my hunch.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 23, 2010, 08:29:16 PM
Bo's a double-edged sword. He's a great fit for the Badgers. Brings that tough, hard-working mentality that is typified by Big Ten play. However, he has never and will never make them a truly elite program. They're good enough to be a constant in the top 25, and good enough to occasionally make the top 15, but will never become a staple in that upper echelon. It's a small difference, especially for a program that was so moribund for so long, but it's a notable one.
And most Badger fans are OK with that.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 23, 2010, 08:35:00 PM
And most Badger fans are OK with that.
Largely due to the fact they have big time football to obsess over. For MU, both financially and otherwise, men's basketball has to reach elite stasis.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 23, 2010, 08:38:48 PM
Largely due to the fact they have big time football to obsess over. For MU, both financially and otherwise, men's basketball has to reach elite stasis.
I never considered them Big Time football....yes, I know they sell out and are in the Big Ten, but they aren't elite. Every 5 years or so they have a team like this one that plods through a crappy schedule, goes 9-2 or whatever but everyone knows is 2 steps below elite. They're an above average football team that never gets to the top but their fans are fine with that, very much like their basketball program. Solid, will get a few signature wins but has no chance of ever claiming a national title (in football or hoops).
Ohio State, Purdue, Michigan State, and Illinois will all be better than Wisco in the next two or three years. Tubby Smith is good enough to at least draw even with Wisco. I see a 4-7 finish for them in the coming years personally. It is not bad, but certainly a downgrade.
Bo had a lot of scholarships open apparently and signed some OK players. He has Leuer this year, but after that, life will get tough without 4 or 5 star recruits. I don't care what type of schemes you run or how tough you might think it is to play in Wisco's gym. The talent flat out is not there, so I don't see the basis for how anyone thinks they will still be good.
Nebraska makes the Big Ten easier for hoops, I don't see Iowa turning it around, Michigan can't get things figured out, Penn State is weak, and I can't see Bo losing to Crean too often. So, Bo will be able to finish ahead of those teams.
So can somebody tell me why this thread is even here?
Is Bo Ryan now our head coach or something? Or is it that there are people on this board who actually think Bo Ryan is a bad coach?
Bo Ryan is a great coach. But he's not our coach. Why make a thread about him?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2010, 08:30:26 PM
I would imagine it had to do with NCAA probation, having to tell perspective recruits if you go there you won't be able to go to the NCAA tournament due to probation, having to start the program from scratch, etc.
That's just my hunch.
IU was not banned from NCAA play. They had to give up 1 scholarship in 2008 and they place some recruiting limitations on the program - self imposed ones at that. The situation at IU was not as bleak as you make it sound.
From USA Today and Tom Crean himself in 2008 when the verdict came down:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/2008-11-25-indiana-penalties_N.htm
Crean wasn't sure exactly what the probation meant for the school, but he knows what is important to him and his team.
"We didn't want to lose postseason. We didn't want to lose scholarships," he said from Maui. "We didn't want to lose television. Thank God we didn't lose any of those. We can continue to move the program in a forward motion without all the what-ifs lurking out there."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2010, 08:52:56 PM
I never considered them Big Time football....yes, I know they sell out and are in the Big Ten, but they aren't elite. Every 5 years or so they have a team like this one that plods through a crappy schedule, goes 9-2 or whatever but everyone knows is 2 steps below elite. They're an above average football team that never gets to the top but their fans are fine with that, very much like their basketball program. Solid, will get a few signature wins but has no chance of ever claiming a national title (in football or hoops).
Their fans consider the football team elite. The rest of us may refer to them as "middle of the road."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2010, 08:52:56 PM
I never considered them Big Time football....yes, I know they sell out and are in the Big Ten, but they aren't elite. Every 5 years or so they have a team like this one that plods through a crappy schedule, goes 9-2 or whatever but everyone knows is 2 steps below elite. They're an above average football team that never gets to the top but their fans are fine with that, very much like their basketball program. Solid, will get a few signature wins but has no chance of ever claiming a national title (in football or hoops).
Yep. That pretty much sums it up. That's why I think we probably obsess over their recruiting rankings more than they do.
I suspect that they will be bumped out of the top25 when the final rankings come in in the spring of '11. There are too many unsigned top100 guys for these early rankings to mean too much, and I think that MU once again sneaks in to the top 25 somehow.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on September 23, 2010, 09:21:45 PM
Ohio State, Purdue, Michigan State, and Illinois will all be better than Wisco in the next two or three years. Tubby Smith is good enough to at least draw even with Wisco. I see a 4-7 finish for them in the coming years personally. It is not bad, but certainly a downgrade.
Maybe. but I'm not sure I agree with your teams above UW. Ohio State will always have more talent, but so many of them leave early they are usually really young talent, inconsistent. Some years they'll win with the conference and other years they finish 5th or 6th due to the inexperience. Illinois has been all over the place.
The one advantage Wisconsin always seems to have is when one guy graduates or is hurt, next guy in does very well. The machinery keeps going. They will never be elite, but almost always near the top of the conference due to maturity and execution.
Quote from: SacWarrior on September 23, 2010, 09:23:04 PM
So can somebody tell me why this thread is even here?
Is Bo Ryan now our head coach or something? Or is it that there are people on this board who actually think Bo Ryan is a bad coach?
Bo Ryan is a great coach. But he's not our coach. Why make a thread about him?
Because in other threads, also here, fans were saying Bo Ryan couldn't recruit. Then other threads, also here, had fans saying he could recruit and even recruited very high ranking players and the idea "he couldn't recruit" was a myth. ;D
Quote from: SacWarrior on September 23, 2010, 09:23:04 PM
So can somebody tell me why this thread is even here?
Is Bo Ryan now our head coach or something? Or is it that there are people on this board who actually think Bo Ryan is a bad coach?
Bo Ryan is a great coach. But he's not our coach. Why make a thread about him?
Many of us here in Wisconsin have to work with / live with Baaaadgers. We have to live with the result of The MU / UW game all year round. That is why we care.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 24, 2010, 11:25:10 AM
Because in other threads, also here, fans were saying Bo Ryan couldn't recruit. Then other threads, also here, had fans saying he could recruit and even recruited very high ranking players and the idea "he couldn't recruit" was a myth. ;D
To borrow a phrase from someone here....sigh.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20821.25 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20821.25)
Bo brought in a lot of very highly recruited players during his first 7 years at UW, however, it appears his recruiting has started to slip (at least according to the stars) over the last 3 classes they have filled (09-11). Previously, an outgoing player would be replaced by another player that was just as talented, according to the scouts. Now, the players that are departing will start to be replaced with guys that supposedly aren't quite as talented. That's why there have been some murmurs about UW's recruiting out West. We'll see what that leads to on the court. I have a feeling UW will slip from almost always being in the conference title race to contending for the upper middle pack (4-6 range) in the BIG XXXX, but time will tell.
The only reason UW is on this list right now is because they have 4 guys committed and a ton of the top 100 players have not decided on a school. Once the dust settles, I don't think UW will be anywhere near this list.
PS-Uthoff is now rated as a 4-star by Scout, so my previous post that I linked to is now a little outdated.
Quote from: Ners on September 23, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
IU was not banned from NCAA play. They had to give up 1 scholarship in 2008 and they place some recruiting limitations on the program - self imposed ones at that. The situation at IU was not as bleak as you make it sound.
From USA Today and Tom Crean himself in 2008 when the verdict came down:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/2008-11-25-indiana-penalties_N.htm
Crean wasn't sure exactly what the probation meant for the school, but he knows what is important to him and his team.
"We didn't want to lose postseason. We didn't want to lose scholarships," he said from Maui. "We didn't want to lose television. Thank God we didn't lose any of those. We can continue to move the program in a forward motion without all the what-ifs lurking out there."
Correct you are...they were put on probation but not post season ban.
Yep, IU's postseason absence is self inflicted, not self imposed. (Or NCAA imposted)