http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20100910_BIG_UPS_.html
"The Big East very recently communicated its interest in adding Villanova as a football member," Villanova athletic director Vince Nicastro told the Daily News yesterday. "As a result, we have decided to embark on an in-depth evaluation of this opportunity.
No timetable for a decision has been set. Sources said that in a best-case scenario, the Big East would like to have an answer by the end of the year. The conference presidents hold their annual meeting in November, and aren't scheduled to meet again until March. The Big Ten has its meetings in December, at which point it is expected to discuss additional expansion. The names of Big East teams reportedly have come up in past talks about the Big Ten.
If the Big East football schools ever went their separate ways, as many have projected, that would leave the Wildcats in the non-football half of the 16-team conference. That means Villanova would lose basketball opponents Connecticut, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida.
With Villanova's renewed national basketball profile, it would be important for the school to protect its brand and the football program could help.
I am absolutely amazed that the BE thinks this is a good idea for their football future. They play in a rinky-dink stadium (12,500) that apparently is too small for FBS requirements, and cannot be expanded. So they have to move off campus somewhere.
If the BE was going to really be serious about football, get a program like East Carolina or Central Florida that regularly play in front of 40,000+ crowds. Don't create another Temple-type program that isn't going to be well supported. A couple of years ago, Nova played Temple at Lincoln Financial Field, and the crowd was around 30,000...for basically two home teams.
Not a good idea.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 10, 2010, 11:13:43 AM
I am absolutely amazed that the BE thinks this is a good idea for their football future. They play in a rinky-dink stadium (12,500) that apparently is too small for FBS requirements, and cannot be expanded. So they have to move off campus somewhere.
If the BE was going to really be serious about football, get a program like East Carolina or Central Florida that regularly play in front of 40,000+ crowds. Don't create another Temple-type program that isn't going to be well supported. A couple of years ago, Nova played Temple at Lincoln Financial Field, and the crowd was around 30,000...for basically two home teams.
Not a good idea.
Keep in mind that Marinatto is a big part of this front-office decision. So, of course, it's a stupid idea. The reason he's inviting Nova is because he doesnt want to spoil his precious basketball conference. You cant add a new full-time member so football can get to 9 teams without creating major problems with basketball. Moving Nova up enables bball to stay the same and gives football #9. Most obvious option available. I really hope they arent paying Tagliabue to come up with crap like this.
TCU is the dream option.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on September 10, 2010, 11:25:31 AM
Keep in mind that Marinatto is a big part of this front-office decision. So, of course, it's a stupid idea. The reason he's inviting Nova is because he doesnt want to spoil his precious basketball conference. You cant add a new full-time member so football can get to 9 teams without creating major problems with basketball. Moving Nova up enables bball to stay the same and gives football #9. Most obvious option available. I really hope they arent paying Tagliabue to come up with crap like this.
Yep. Another decision driven by basketball. And don't for a minute that becasue it was a basketball decision, it will help Marquette. This makes it actually easier for the football schools to go their own way. (Which might be exactly why this decision was made come to think of it...)
Temple's contract with Lincoln Field ends in 2017. The school paid $15M towards construction for 15 years. No chance in hell Nova can afford that. One more mouth to feed which means the other 8 fball schools will have to suck it up in hopes that Nova can be a money maker in the future (Im not even sure there is enough money to go around to begin with). Gee, the B10 adds Nebraska because they are certain the school can bring in at least 20 M per year. Meanwhile, the BE wants to bring in Nova despite the certainty they will not make any money at all for many years. Brilliant. Fu*king brilliant.
The only thing that they might be doing is trying to create a "football majority" where they now have 9 schools, can leave the Bball schools behind, and add three additional members for a 12 team conference and a championship game.
That would require vision and forethought though...and this is the BE we are talking about here.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 10, 2010, 11:53:03 AM
That would require vision and forethought though...and this is the BE we are talking about here.
The BE kicked out a Philly school that had a 1-A history and a large stadium so that 10 years later the BE could add a Philly school with no 1-A history and no stadium.
Is this an example of the vision and forethought you speak of?
Can someone please put BE fball and the Prov front-office out of its misery? I cant watch this tradegy unfold any longer.
Is this really that bad of an idea? 8 teams is incredibly small for a BCS football conference. We already have 16 in the conference, so you can't bring in anymore. If the Big East wants to maintain its position for an auto-big in the BCS, it has to do something. I could see Georgetown getting a similar invite if they ever got their act together, which would bring the conference to a nice round 10 teams.
and why exactly, can't Villanova add more stands? What is the minimum a BCS stadium needs to have? I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it happen.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 10, 2010, 11:13:43 AM
Not a good idea.
The BE is DOOOMED I tell you, DOOMED!
You guys certainly make conference happenings more dramatic than a soap opera. Your acting is better though, kudos.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 10, 2010, 12:19:03 PM
and why exactly, can't Villanova add more stands? What is the minimum a BCS stadium needs to have? I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it happen.
It's not so much how many stands but how large the crowds are. To maintain DI status you need a minimum number of fans to attend on average. That's one of the reasons UNLV brings in Wisconsin every other reason, so a bunch of overweight folks can fill their stands and meet their average. ;D
15,000 are required on average for home games on a rolling 2 year average
Football Bowl Subdivision Requirements
An institution classified in Football Bowl Subdivision shall meet all the Division I membership
requirements set forth in NCAA Division I Bylaws 20.9.1 through 20.9.5 and in addition, shall:
1. Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the
minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20.
Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams
(males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all
female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight
varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.7.1]
2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football
Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home
contests against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.7.2]
3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a
rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]
4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall
football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]
5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million
dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 10, 2010, 12:16:36 PM
Is this really that bad of an idea? 8 teams is incredibly small for a BCS football conference. We already have 16 in the conference, so you can't bring in anymore. If the Big East wants to maintain its position for an auto-big in the BCS, it has to do something. I could see Georgetown getting a similar invite if they ever got their act together, which would bring the conference to a nice round 10 teams.
Expansion is not necessarily a bad idea at all...but the team they are adding has a small support base, small stadium and isn't really going to be all that good. In an era where $$ is determined by eyeballs, and therefore large public universities generally dominate, the BE is upgrading a small private university.
Victor, if there is a position open in the BE front-office, I will gladly write you a referral. You'll fit right in!
Temple couldnt maintain 15K fans for home games. f.i.f.t.e.e.n. thousand....
Bad idea? No...not at all. Arent all the major conferences kicking the tires of FCS teams? I bet the B10 will go after Weber St while the PAC10 goes after Prairie View A&M as copy-cat moves. Suddenly, the BE is a TREND SETTER!!! hell yeah!
Add a program already in the geographic footprint? Yeah, great. I wonder if any other BE schools recruit in New England? Let's see, the best recruits go to Nova, then the rest of the conference struggles. The best recruits go to schools other than Nova and the conference struggles because Nova cant sustain itself. Perfect. Let's cannibalize the conference. I could go on and on but what the point?
Suggested thread title (read aloud):
"Howie Long to have Villanova join BE in football "
Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 10, 2010, 12:25:07 PM
The BE is DOOOMED I tell you, DOOMED!
You guys certainly make conference happenings more dramatic than a soap opera. Your acting is better though, kudos.
+1
I think what some of you are missing is that this isn't the only school they will invite. They are trying to add another DI school that currently plays football and potentially add Nova as well. The idea is to keep the hoops schools together and bolster football. Nova doesn't bolster football and wouldn't for at least a decade if they could even get there.....remember how many folks said UCONN football would never make it and they did.
The question becomes who is the other member they add, will they be added for football only or also hoops (if so, then you have to add still another member).
At the end of the day, adding Nova is just one of either 2 or 3 teams they would go with, and it's no slam dunk that Nova even accepts the opportunity (many reasons not to).
Unlikely won't be Memphis but there are other schools they have been looking at.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 10, 2010, 12:57:49 PM
I think what some of you are missing is that this isn't the only school they will invite. They are trying to add another DI school that currently plays football and potentially add Nova as well. The idea is to keep the hoops schools together and bolster football. Nova doesn't bolster football and wouldn't for at least a decade if they could even get there.....remember how many folks said UCONN football would never make it and they did.
Don't forget that the State of Connecticut funded almost the entire cost of building Rentschler Field, to the tune of nearly $100M. Furthermore, being the "state school" gives them a larger fan-base as well. These are advantages that Nova will not have.
I'm not completely convinced this is the right thing to do, I was just surprised by how many people thought it was a terrible idea.
I think success will bring in crowds. They are defending FCS national champion, and will get a bunch more scholarships. Temple had been bad for a long time...so their crowds sucked. I don't think you can really compare a stale, stagnant program with an up and coming one.
There will be ways for them to get their average above 15k....schedule nearby schools with huge fan bases, such as Penn St. Plus Rutgers and Pitt are close drives. People will come. Joining the Big East in itself will boost crowds at least a couple thousand for the first year. Now, they will have to win to sustain those crowds because novelty wears off. But I bet they would be able to do it.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on September 10, 2010, 11:25:31 AM
I really hope they arent paying Tagliabue to come up with crap like this.
Clearly they should have hired you over Tagliabue. You may not like the move, but I'm comfortable with Tagliabue being involved. If it doesn't make sense, at worst, I think it's safe to say it was the best option available. He's better at this than you.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 10, 2010, 06:42:12 PM
I'm not completely convinced this is the right thing to do, I was just surprised by how many people thought it was a terrible idea.
I think success will bring in crowds. They are defending FCS national champion, and will get a bunch more scholarships. Temple had been bad for a long time...so their crowds sucked. I don't think you can really compare a stale, stagnant program with an up and coming one.
There will be ways for them to get their average above 15k....schedule nearby schools with huge fan bases, such as Penn St. Plus Rutgers and Pitt are close drives. People will come. Joining the Big East in itself will boost crowds at least a couple thousand for the first year. Now, they will have to win to sustain those crowds because novelty wears off. But I bet they would be able to do it.
I don't think it's a bad idea, but if they had the pieces in place to make the move without significant investment they would have already accepted instead of taking until the end of the year to try to find out if it's doable. They play in a glorified high school stadium with a 12,500 listed capacity. I think they can draw 15,000 if they compete in the Big East, but I just don't see how with the space issues they can come close to having an
average of 15,000; they might get a few hundred more seats by putting lawn chairs on top of the Pavillion but it would require some major investment and probably a relocation to get even a reasonable 20-25k seats.
It's possible they could get Lincoln Financial, and I think the Philadelphia fanbase with many local non-alumni loving Nova sports can draw upwards of 30k, but not a capacity crowd. And it'll hurt more because realistically they're looking at 5-6 home games each year: two on Saturdays and with Temple getting first priority three others on Thursday, Friday, or Sunday. The Big East has put games on Thursday or Friday on ESPN for one simple reason: it's not good enough to get television time on Saturday when competing with the other conferences. This will just add more to the garbage heap. And even with the big venue, could Nova with Big East support consistantly draw respectable crowds at Lincoln Financial if Penn State and maybe a team like Maryland come every three years, then Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers each come every other year? Keep in mind Temple – Nova drew 32,000 this year (capacity is close to 70k); with Nova in the Big East maybe it can get closer to 40k, and if that's for the intra-city game counting on Pitt, WVU, or Rutgers to come up with 50,000 fans at away games might be a stretch.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 10, 2010, 06:42:12 PM
There will be ways for them to get their average above 15k....schedule nearby schools with huge fan bases, such as Penn St. Plus Rutgers and Pitt are close drives. People will come. Joining the Big East in itself will boost crowds at least a couple thousand for the first year. Now, they will have to win to sustain those crowds because novelty wears off. But I bet they would be able to do it.
What makes you think Penn State, who plays in front of 90K every week, is going to travel to Villanova? Simply put, no BCS conference would even think about adding Villanova, or any other FCS program. That's stuff reserved for the WAC and the Sun Belt. BCS programs don't have to work to stay above 15,000.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 10, 2010, 06:42:12 PM
I'm not completely convinced this is the right thing to do, I was just surprised by how many people thought it was a terrible idea.
There were exactly 2 people who posted (several times) before you, that's a far cry from "many people" on this board, but those two are outspoken on BE issues.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 10, 2010, 01:09:20 PM
Don't forget that the State of Connecticut funded almost the entire cost of building Rentschler Field, to the tune of nearly $100M. Furthermore, being the "state school" gives them a larger fan-base as well. These are advantages that Nova will not have.
Very valid points.
I'm just saying there have been a number of programs over the years that people said would never amount to anything. If 10 years ago you said Boise State would be preseason top 5 in 2010 they would put you in a straight jacket. If 20 years ago you said Wisconsin would win more than 2 games a season consistently they would do the same. Northwestern to the Rose Bowl. UCONN starting a team and going to bowl games. South Florida being ranked #2 in the nation 2/3rds of the way into the season just a few years ago. Tulane vying for a BCS bowl. TCU making it. Utah finishing top 5...TWICE in the last 7 years. Etc, etc.
Do I think Nova will accomplish any of these things? Nope. I'm hard pressed to imagine any of these scenarios in Philadelphia, a pro town that has incredibly fickle fans. But nothing is impossible.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 10, 2010, 09:52:51 PM
Very valid points.
I'm just saying there have been a number of programs over the years that people said would never amount to anything. If 10 years ago you said Boise State would be preseason top 5 in 2010 they would put you in a straight jacket. If 20 years ago you said Wisconsin would win more than 2 games a season consistently they would do the same. Northwestern to the Rose Bowl. UCONN starting a team and going to bowl games. South Florida being ranked #2 in the nation 2/3rds of the way into the season just a few years ago. Tulane vying for a BCS bowl. TCU making it. Utah finishing top 5...TWICE in the last 7 years. Etc, etc.
Do I think Nova will accomplish any of these things? Nope. I'm hard pressed to imagine any of these scenarios in Philadelphia, a pro town that has incredibly fickle fans. But not is impossible.
I dont understand why the BE hasnt weighed Temple's lack of sucess relative to Nova's projected success. Its so obvious. Providence has a basketball-first mentality. We are the only conference with this mindset. Its so amusing to me the amount of homers on this website that simply think everything will be ok. So dumb. As a follower of the BE for most of my life, I hope Syracuse gets invited to the ACC and ND accepts the B10 invite. What will these homers think then? So many on this board think that bball is actually important. Its really amusing sometimes.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on September 10, 2010, 10:53:04 PM
I dont understand why the BE hasnt weighed Temple's lack of sucess relative to Nova's projected success. Its so obvious. Providence has a basketball-first mentality. We are the only conference with this mindset. Its so amusing to me the amount of homers on this website that simply think everything will be ok. So dumb. As a follower of the BE for most of my life, I hope Syracuse gets invited to the ACC and ND accepts the B10 invite. What will these homers think then? So many on this board think that bball is actually important. Its really amusing sometimes.
You are right that the realities are simple, football drives the train. This is why I've said realignment is not over and will ultimately kill us. That being said, I'm hopeful that Tagliabue or whomever can try and do something to make it work if he can.
I'm sure they are not thinking about Temple because there is so much bad blood after the divorce. Very bad stuff.
It's not to say bball isn't important, it is.....it's just that football is MORE important in terms of the big picture of $$$, etc. It's only a matter of time when there will be 4 or 5 super conferences and basketball will have to figure out what they are going to do. If I were the Big East, I'd try to continue the expansion into some other large cities if I could. University of Houston, Texas Christian (Dallas) would be two starters. You get two Texas teams to form a rivalry, two bowl teams, and one that is dying for a BCS tie in which the Big East still has. Or go for East Carolina. But at the end of the day, they have to fix the football in order for this to even have a remote chance.
That's exactly what I would do Chicos. The BE has something very valuable...a BCS auto-bid. They should use this to attract some serious football schools that open up new markets. Furthermore, the BE is the weakest of the auto bid conferences, which should make them even attractive to schools like TCU, Houston, etc. The fact that they are looking to upgrade FCS schools in their current geographical footprint show that they don't take football as seriously as they should...and it is going to continue to hurt them in the long run.
Quote from: chapman on September 10, 2010, 09:05:02 PM
I don't think it's a bad idea, but if they had the pieces in place to make the move without significant investment they would have already accepted instead of taking until the end of the year to try to find out if it's doable. They play in a glorified high school stadium with a 12,500 listed capacity. I think they can draw 15,000 if they compete in the Big East, but I just don't see how with the space issues they can come close to having an average of 15,000; they might get a few hundred more seats by putting lawn chairs on top of the Pavillion but it would require some major investment and probably a relocation to get even a reasonable 20-25k seats.
It's possible they could get Lincoln Financial, and I think the Philadelphia fanbase with many local non-alumni loving Nova sports can draw upwards of 30k, but not a capacity crowd. And it'll hurt more because realistically they're looking at 5-6 home games each year: two on Saturdays and with Temple getting first priority three others on Thursday, Friday, or Sunday. The Big East has put games on Thursday or Friday on ESPN for one simple reason: it's not good enough to get television time on Saturday when competing with the other conferences. This will just add more to the garbage heap. And even with the big venue, could Nova with Big East support consistantly draw respectable crowds at Lincoln Financial if Penn State and maybe a team like Maryland come every three years, then Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers each come every other year? Keep in mind Temple – Nova drew 32,000 this year (capacity is close to 70k); with Nova in the Big East maybe it can get closer to 40k, and if that's for the intra-city game counting on Pitt, WVU, or Rutgers to come up with 50,000 fans at away games might be a stretch.
Even if Nova only drew 32k again for a Temple matchup, that's still 17,000+ what they need to average, which is huge for such a small football home schedule, it basically means they could draw 6,500 the next two games and still be on pace.
Another way to think about it is if they could manage to draw 40,000 for a Temple matchup, they would only have to draw an average of 10,000 for all of its other home games...pretty doable.
Also, with a "real" (BCS) football program might come more donations, fan interest, nationally televised games, apparel sales, fan giveaways, etc. Its not like their attendance is going to stay exactly like it was without all of those things.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 11, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
Even if Nova only drew 32k again for a Temple matchup, that's still 17,000+ what they need to average, which is huge for such a small football home schedule, it basically means they could draw 6,500 the next two games and still be on pace.
Another way to think about it is if they could manage to draw 40,000 for a Temple matchup, they would only have to draw an average of 10,000 for all of its other home games...pretty doable.
Listen to what you are saying. You are saying that a BCS conference program should be able to draw 10,000 a game. Do you really think that adds something to the conference?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 11, 2010, 03:59:02 PM
Listen to what you are saying. You are saying that a BCS conference program should be able to draw 10,000 a game. Do you really think that adds something to the conference?
Exactly. They would have no problem being FBS eligible, but that means nothing. Big Ten and SEC teams can draw capacity crowds for every single home game, 80,000+ and the rest of the state watching on television. Season tickets for these schools require huge donations, and at least in UW-Madison's case another huge donation just for parking. Nova would be trying to fill Lincoln Financial to half capacity, probably getting two or three Saturdays and the rest on non-traditional days due to having lower priority than a MAC team, and they would be banking on visitors buying up their tickets just to accomplish half capacity. They add little to the television draw - can't compete with Penn State and don't add much viewership that Pitt or Rutgers doesn't already get since the market is already in Big East territory. I don't think the idea is "terrible"; they need a balanced schedule and the geography works. It's just that a conference already at a disadvantage would be adding a FCS team while the competition is adding giants like Nebraska and Utah.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 10, 2010, 11:26:04 PM
You are right that the realities are simple, football drives the train. This is why I've said realignment is not over and will ultimately kill us. That being said, I'm hopeful that Tagliabue or whomever can try and do something to make it work if he can.
I'm sure they are not thinking about Temple because there is so much bad blood after the divorce. Very bad stuff.
It's not to say bball isn't important, it is.....it's just that football is MORE important in terms of the big picture of $$$, etc. It's only a matter of time when there will be 4 or 5 super conferences and basketball will have to figure out what they are going to do. If I were the Big East, I'd try to continue the expansion into some other large cities if I could. University of Houston, Texas Christian (Dallas) would be two starters. You get two Texas teams to form a rivalry, two bowl teams, and one that is dying for a BCS tie in which the Big East still has. Or go for East Carolina. But at the end of the day, they have to fix the football in order for this to even have a remote chance.
AD Mac Rhoades (fomerly with MU athl. dept.)is doing great at UH--by giving alums who donated their time only and by treating their time donation the same as UH would treat a big $$ donor (enhanced seating locations, invites to private functions, etc)-- an army of UH supporters gave huge amounts of their time and helped sell tens of thousands of tickets, including a sellout of the entire UH football schedule. This will be a big boost to the UH $169 million stadium construction and Hofheinz remodel. When all the facility upgrade is done-- UH will consider themselves well suited to a Big 12 or BE conference joinder. Go Coogs!
BTW, as time is valuable-
- why not have MU rip off the Mac Rhoades/UH idea and offer those MU alums giving time on phone banks, alumni club work, admissions/college nights, etc., get "credit" for the effort (reward could be Blue and Gold points credit for better seating rights at the Bradley). Such encourages alums (esp recent grads-still paying off student loans), , not just to throw $, but give MU some of their valuable time--- and get a credit/benefit.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on September 11, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
Even if Nova only drew 32k again for a Temple matchup, that's still 17,000+ what they need to average, which is huge for such a small football home schedule, it basically means they could draw 6,500 the next two games and still be on pace.
Another way to think about it is if they could manage to draw 40,000 for a Temple matchup, they would only have to draw an average of 10,000 for all of its other home games...pretty doable.
Also, with a "real" (BCS) football program might come more donations, fan interest, nationally televised games, apparel sales, fan giveaways, etc. Its not like their attendance is going to stay exactly like it was without all of those things.
Lmao!! Quite possibly the dumbest comment I have ever heard regarding conference expansion. Priceless.
Quote from: houwarrior on September 11, 2010, 05:13:07 PM
AD Mac Rhoades (fomerly with MU athl. dept.)is doing great at UH--by giving alums who donated their time only and by treating their time donation the same as UH would treat a big $$ donor (enhanced seating locations, invites to private functions, etc)-- an army of UH supporters gave huge amounts of their time and helped sell tens of thousands of tickets, including a sellout of the entire UH football schedule. This will be a big boost to the UH $169 million stadium construction and Hofheinz remodel. When all the facility upgrade is done-- UH will consider themselves well suited to a Big 12 or BE conference joinder. Go Coogs!
BTW, as time is valuable-
- why not have MU rip off the Mac Rhoades/UH idea and offer those MU alums giving time on phone banks, alumni club work, admissions/college nights, etc., get "credit" for the effort (reward could be Blue and Gold points credit for better seating rights at the Bradley). Such encourages alums (esp recent grads-still paying off student loans), , not just to throw $, but give MU some of their valuable time--- and get a credit/benefit.
Mack and I were supposed to get together next weekend as Houston comes to town to play UCLA. Unfortunately I'll be in Colorado for my sister's 40th birthday. Mack is good people and will be a BCS AD before all is said and done. He's very bright, would love to have him as MU's AD but know that will never happen.
Quote from: chapman on September 11, 2010, 04:25:59 PM
It's just that a conference already at a disadvantage would be adding a FCS team while the competition is adding giants like Nebraska and Utah.
That's exactly right. The Big Ten didn't expand by adding Northern Iowa and the Pac Ten didn't expand by adding Cal Poly.
Wouldn't necessarily have to play on campus or at the Linc.
I follow MLS pretty closely and rumor has Nova moving into Philadelphia Union's new 18,500-seat stadium, which could easily be expanded to 20-25k.
I think people are missing the point on the football schools inviting Nova.
It's not about adding value as it is about cutting ties to the basketball only schools. There aren't a lot of schools out there that can add value to the football conference that make sense. The conference isn't going to vote for adding from the outside. By getting Nova to the football side the football schools control the voting and can more easily split. It even makes the split actually make sense for the football schools since it would be taking one of the few valuable bball only teams with it. It gives them their 9 for scheduling purposes and then they're free to add more teams if they so choose. I think nova moving to the football side would probably split the conference rather than helping to keep it together.
I'm skeptical if nova will go for this because I don't see it being the smart move financially. They will lose money on football and I don't think they have the fan base to support it. Nova is about 2,000 students smaller than marquette is. A lot off people in philly support nova in basketball, but everyone in the area is a penn st fan when it comes to football. Why would they jump ship for Nova/BE football.
Basically the consensus for Nova is the only realistic stadium option is the soccer stadium which will only seat 22,000 max( if they bring in the extra seating). They can't use the linc, so even their best home games will only get 22,000 fans. coupled with the bad drawing games they're sure to have because they can't get good teams for all their games it's suspect if they can reach the 15,000 average.
I also think people are overblowing expansion. If the B10 wanted the big east schools, it could've had them by now. It only took nebraksa, because they were the only team worth having. Now the big 10, pac 10, SEC, and ACC all have 12 schools and the b12 is happy with their 10 team setup since texas controls the conference. I don't think there's going to be any more movement. It's not out of the question, but I don't think it's likely. I don't think we'll ever go to the 16 team super football conferences I think it's just splitting the pie too much and not enough quality footb
I respectfully disagree Hoya. I don't think the Big Ten is done. In fact, the comments from Delaney, Alvarez, etc, lead directly to more expansion in the coming years. The question is when. With the new realignment within the Big Ten (the two divisions), both stated that the current alignment not only sets up for now but for continued additions down the road.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 12, 2010, 04:57:01 PM
I respectfully disagree Hoya. I don't think the Big Ten is done. In fact, the comments from Delaney, Alvarez, etc, lead directly to more expansion in the coming years. The question is when. With the new realignment within the Big Ten (the two divisions), both stated that the current alignment not only sets up for now but for continued additions down the road.
I'm not entirely sure where the Big Ten would go. There's not really any programs worth adding. The only way I could see further Big Ten expansion is if ND ever decides to join, and frankly, if they didn't join this most recent time around, I can't see them ever joining. B10 would then need a 14th team to balance the divisions.
Rutgers and Syracuse (might) deliver the New York TV market, but they're lousy football schools, and would indisputably weaken Big Ten football, and be the ugly stepsister to Notre Dame.
Pitt might give the Big Ten decent football, but this is a team that doesn't even dominate the Big East. Pitt has only won the Big East once, and that was in a four-way tie. Nebraska at least rules the Big Twelve North. (5 Big 12 North titles, more than any other school). However, it gives the Big Ten Network no new markets, as Penn State already has the Pittsburgh market.
Missouri adds little in the way of football or basketball, and only delivers the KC market. Having lived in St. Louis the last three years, I can tell you that Big 10 Network is already advertised in cable packages there, and Illinois gets plenty of local pub.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on September 11, 2010, 10:25:08 PM
Lmao!! Quite possibly the dumbest comment I have ever heard regarding conference expansion. Priceless.
Do you have anything to add to the conversation?
You can disagree with me but I don't see what you're bringing to the discussion...
It seemed like the talk about stealing big east teams was to force ND's hand. And ND wasn't buying it. With BYU's move to independence ND's position is strengthened. They have no incentive to ever give up independence. Conferences aren't going to expand just to expand. The conferences have their championship games now, so why dilute the pot with weak programs from the big east. Again if they were going to take a big east school, why didn't they do it already?
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on September 12, 2010, 06:56:54 PM
It seemed like the talk about stealing big east teams was to force ND's hand. And ND wasn't buying it. With BYU's move to independence ND's position is strengthened. They have no incentive to ever give up independence. Conferences aren't going to expand just to expand. The conferences have their championship games now, so why dilute the pot with weak programs from the big east. Again if they were going to take a big east school, why didn't they do it already?
Because the power brokers, notably ESPN, paid a lot of money to stop it....for the moment.
Chicos, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that ESPN promised a lot of money? I don't think those contracts ever have been signed.
I think you are both right. The B10 will expand if they can find the right school. The problem is that there are no willing partners that could be called the right school.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 12, 2010, 10:53:04 PM
Because the power brokers, notably ESPN, paid a lot of money to stop it....for the moment.
They paid to stop the big 12 from being torn a part not the big east. In fact if they hadn't the big east woud've benefited by adding the left over big 12 teams.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on September 13, 2010, 11:09:47 PM
They paid to stop the big 12 from being torn a part not the big east. In fact if they hadn't the big east woud've benefited by adding the left over big 12 teams.
That's correct...but by stopping that short term domino (the Big 12), it stopped a bunch of others from falling. The Big 12 is still in tact, but if had broken up, the SEC was getting bigger, the Pac Ten much bigger, etc....the rest of the dominoes then fall too.
Unfortunately, Nova does have the talent level to step up. Last year the Massey Ratings - which is pretty accurate in predicting - picked Villanova as the 34th best football team in the country, so there would be no ramp up. This is very bad news, because so far Georgetown-Marquette-Nova have formed a nice trio to show that basketball-only works. Here is the top 40 according to Massey.
Alabama 14 0
Florida 13 1
Texas 13 1
Boise St 14 0
TCU 12 1
Virginia Tech 10 3
Cincinnati 12 1
Ohio St 11 2
Penn St 11 2
LSU 9 4
Georgia Tech 11 3
Oregon 10 3
Iowa 11 2
Arkansas 8 5
BYU 11 2
Mississippi 9 4
Nebraska 10 4
Pittsburgh 10 3
Miami FL 9 4
Oklahoma 8 5
Clemson 9 5
Georgia 8 5
Auburn 8 5
Texas Tech 9 4
Utah 10 3
USC 9 4
Wisconsin 10 3
Connecticut 8 5
North Carolina 8 5
Tennessee 7 6
Florida St 7 6
West Virginia 9 4
Stanford 8 5
Villanova 14 1
Arizona 8 5
Oklahoma St 9 4
Oregon St 8 5
South Carolina 7 6
C Michigan 12 2
Mississippi St 5 7