The posts this week are really discerning.
MU is a big-time basketball program in a big-time conference. The players are their team are not helpless Children. They have to constantly earn their spots. I have to believe the top of the roster is happy that Buzz is getting them players. The bottom of the roster has to get better or move on. This is the way things SHOULD be.
Newbill (and Roseboro before him) were never going to amount to much. Yes, they might have been recruiting mistakes. Their is nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as they are corrected. Buzz correct these mistakes. (same with Mbao). The mistake would have been having 25% of the roster (Roseboro, Newbill and Mbao) as "dead money" for the next three years. This could have killed the program.
All are going to be fine. Roseboro is at St. Bonnies, a fine school, Newbiill has offers and Mbao will be OK. Buzz was right in doing what he did. Further, if another Jamil Wilson type of transfer called him today, he SHOULD "make room" for him as well.
If you think this is wrong, then maybe Mike Deane was correct all along. Maybe we can switch with Butler. They can go into the Big East, we can go into the Horizon league. Then we can strive from every player staying four years, never having a transfer or a recruit backing out and completely suck. Would that make you happy?
--------
Added later ... If Buzz passed on Jamil to honor is commitment to Newbill, would that have been a "slap in the face" to Butler, DJO, Blue, Crowder etc? They expect Buzz to get the best possible players for them to work with. If Buzz is going to allow marginal players to take up space for four years, and pass on someone like Wilson, the top of the roster would be right to question their commitment to MU.
I'd love to have been Butler last year, that's for sure. If that's "completely suck", sign me up.
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:29:46 PM
I'd love to have been Butler last year, that's for sure. If that's "completely suck", sign me up.
No Butler goes into the BE and we get to compete with UWGB, Loyola, and UWM.
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:29:46 PM
I'd love to have been Butler last year, that's for sure. If that's "completely suck", sign me up.
Newbill would have made the half-court heave to win it.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:15:52 PM
The posts this week are really discerning.
MU is a big-time basketball program in a big-time conference. The players are their team are not helpless Children. They have to constantly earn their spots. I have to believe the top of the roster is happy that Buzz is getting them players. The bottom of the roster has to get better or move on. This is the way things SHOULD be.
Newbill (and Roseboro before him) were never going to amount to much. Yes, they might have been recruiting mistakes. Their is nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as they are corrected. Buzz correct these mistakes. (same with Mbao). The mistake would have been having 25% of the roster (Roseboro, Newbill and Mbao) as "dead money" for the next three years. This could have killed the program.
All are going to be fine. Roseboro is at St. Bonnies, a fine school, Newbiill has offers and Mbao will be OK. Buzz was right in doing what he did. Further, if another Jamil Wilson type of transfer called him today, he SHOULD "make room" for him as well.
If you think this is wrong, then maybe Mike Deane was correct all along. Maybe we can switch with Butler. They can go into the Big East, we can go into the Horizon league. Then we can strive from every player staying four years, never having a transfer or a recruit backing out and completely suck. Would that make you happy?
--------
Added later ... If Buzz passed on Jamil to honor is commitment to Newbill, would that have been a "slap in the face" to Butler, DJO, Blue, Crowder etc? They expect Buzz to get the best possible players for them to work with. If Buzz is going to allow marginal players to take up space for four years, and pass on someone like Wilson, the top of the roster would be right to question their commitment to MU.
Ok, a more serious reply... What happens if for some crazy hypothetical reason Kyrie Irving is available today and is just begging to come to MU. Do you think it would be ok to tell Reggie Smith that his NLI will no longer be honored and offer the resulting available scholarship to Kyrie?
I do not.
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:37:41 PM
Ok, a more serious reply... What happens if for some crazy hypothetical reason Kyrie Irving is available today and is just begging to come to MU. Do you think it would be ok to tell Reggie Smith that his NLI will no longer be honored and offer the resulting available scholarship to Kyrie?
I do not.
... and when Crowder, DJO JJ and Blue demand to know from Buzz why they don't get to play with Irving, what do you tell them? And when they question Buzz's commitment to winning because he passes on a guy like Irving, how do you tell them they are wrong?
If you pass on Irving don't you insult the rest of the team?
So, I say you take him.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:41:56 PM
... and when Crowder, DJO JJ and Blue demand to know from Buzz why they don't get to play with Irving, what do you tell them? And when they question Buzz's commitment to winning because he passes on a guy like Irving, how do you tell them they are wrong?
If you pass on Irving don't you insult the rest of the team?
So, I say you take him.
I say that would absolutely go against both contract law and everything that both MU and Buzz seems to stand for. How do you tell anyone that your word means anything if you are willing to drop it as soon as something better comes along?
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:45:46 PM
I say that would absolutely go against both contract law and everything that both MU and Buzz seems to stand for. How do you tell anyone that your word means anything if you are willing to drop it as soon as something better comes along?
I thought Buzz stood for being the best you can be. Wouldn't passing on Irving (staying with our hypothetical) be going against everything Buzz stands for?
... and what do you mean "going against contract law?" Are you saying that Buzz broke the law or NCCA rules? I don't think that happened at all. You're reaching with this statement.
I disagree with the idea that Newbill was never going to amount to much. He probably would have been last in our current guard lineup, but I suspect that is more of a reflection on how good our current guards are than a reflection on how bad Newbill is. Buzz did not go through all of this to try and keep a player that was not going to be good.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:49:39 PM
I thought Buzz stood for being the best you can be. Wouldn't passing on Irving (staying with our hypothetical) be going against everything Buzz stands for?
Ok, so it would go against 90% of what Buzz stands for. How many times has he stated that it's more important to develop good people, being honest, truthful, etc. Not honoring a commitment you made to a kid would have to qualify as going against that.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:49:39 PM
... and what do you mean "going against contract law?" Are you saying that Buzz broke the law or NCCA rules? I don't think that happened at all. You're reaching with this statement.
I'm talking about our little hypothetical - if we were to cut Reggie Smith right now, assuming everything else is in line, he has a NLI, he has applied, he's been accepted, etc. In that case how could you argue that MU was not breaking the NLI contract?
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:54:28 PM
Ok, so it would go against 90% of what Buzz stands for. How many times has he stated that it's more important to develop good people, being honest, truthful, etc. Not honoring a commitment you made to a kid would have to qualify as going against that.
So we are assuming that IWB's post is not accurate. If Buzz warned Newbill that he was trying to recruit over him and came anyway, does this matter?
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:54:28 PM
I'm talking about our little hypothetical - if we were to cut Reggie Smith right now, assuming everything else is in line, he has a NLI, he has applied, he's been accepted, etc. In that case how could you argue that MU was not breaking the NLI contract?
You're assuming that Reggie is the next guy on the bubble. What if it was EW that was asked to leave? Does that change things? For months Buzz has been recruiting 2010 recruits. We have been rumoring someone was going to prep school since May. This was not out of the blue.
I look at it differently than you. Buzz has a commitment to the top of the roster. Loading up the bottom of the roster with dead weight denies them opportunity. It sends a bad message to the top of the roster.
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 12:45:46 PM
I say that would absolutely go against both contract law and everything that both MU and Buzz seems to stand for. How do you tell anyone that your word means anything if you are willing to drop it as soon as something better comes along?
Happens a thousand times every day. It's called "divorce".
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 01:10:08 PM
So we are assuming that IWB's post is not accurate. If Buzz warned Newbill that he was trying to recruit over him and came anyway, does this matter?
You're assuming that Reggie is the next guy on the bubble. What if it was EW that was asked to leave? Does that change things? For months Buzz has been recruiting 2010 recruits. We have been rumoring someone was going to prep school since May. This was not out of the blue.
I look at it differently than you. Buzz has a commitment to the top of the roster. Loading up the bottom of the roster with dead weight denies them opportunity. It sends a bad message to the top of the roster.
We're talking about a hypothetical unrelated to any of this. The #3 recruit in the nation is available and wants to come to MU, but all scholarships are taken. The low guy on the totem poll signed a NLI, he has everything in order, he's been accepted by MU, etc. There has been absolutely no talk from anyone about prep school, conditions, etc. Not a single problem except he's not as good as someone else who wants to play for MU. Do you dump a recruit and decide not to honor his 100% valid NLI to allow the #3 recruit in the nation to go to MU?
The next guy on the bubble doesn't matter, you could replace Reggie with any other incoming recruit with a NLI. It has to be a recruit and not EW because there are differences between how recruits and returning players are handled, notably that Buzz has the right to not renew any returning scholarship every year.
We do look at it differently. I think Buzz has a commitment to all the players and incoming recruits, not just the ones at the top of the roster.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on July 02, 2010, 01:10:21 PM
Happens a thousand times every day. It's called "divorce".
100% completely different situation in every single possible way.
Also, that doesn't make it right the 1001st time.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:15:52 PM
The posts this week are really discerning.
MU is a big-time basketball program in a big-time conference. The players are their team are not helpless Children. They have to constantly earn their spots. I have to believe the top of the roster is happy that Buzz is getting them players. The bottom of the roster has to get better or move on. This is the way things SHOULD be.
Newbill (and Roseboro before him) were never going to amount to much. Yes, they might have been recruiting mistakes. Their is nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as they are corrected. Buzz correct these mistakes. (same with Mbao). The mistake would have been having 25% of the roster (Roseboro, Newbill and Mbao) as "dead money" for the next three years. This could have killed the program.
All are going to be fine. Roseboro is at St. Bonnies, a fine school, Newbiill has offers and Mbao will be OK. Buzz was right in doing what he did. Further, if another Jamil Wilson type of transfer called him today, he SHOULD "make room" for him as well.
If you think this is wrong, then maybe Mike Deane was correct all along. Maybe we can switch with Butler. They can go into the Big East, we can go into the Horizon league. Then we can strive from every player staying four years, never having a transfer or a recruit backing out and completely suck. Would that make you happy?
--------
Added later ... If Buzz passed on Jamil to honor is commitment to Newbill, would that have been a "slap in the face" to Butler, DJO, Blue, Crowder etc? They expect Buzz to get the best possible players for them to work with. If Buzz is going to allow marginal players to take up space for four years, and pass on someone like Wilson, the top of the roster would be right to question their commitment to MU.
Not sure if I 100% agree with everything specifically here (and I think you do need some marginal guys here and there that are willing to work their ass off in practice and give you spot contributions), but your general sentiment is dead on.
We're playing with the big boys club now. We may not like how it has to be done, and we're certainly have no right to every smidgen of detail regarding everything that goes on behind the scenes. And I think that's what a lot of posters on this board need to come to the realization of. College recruiting, especially when you're dealing with the level of prospects we're now on the plane of starting to get finally (Blue, Wilson, etc.) is an uglier ballgame than we want to admit to ourselves.
Right now, whether we like it or not, oversigning is a legal tactic. Is it ethical to oversign? That's certainly up to debate amongst us, but if the coach and the player clearly agreed to, understand the circumstances around the oversigning, and, the potential consequences, I believe they have every right to enter into that agreement, regardless of what we may think.
I certainly feel for DJ Newbill, and I'm certain Buzz wishes things could be handled slightly differently. I do know that DJ Newbill is a talented kid that will end up on his feet, and I'm confident that Marquette will do him right and help him find a landing spot. Sorry if that's what some call on this board the sanitized, rosy-colored, MU-PR view, but until the day where that doesn't happen, I'm standing by this post.
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 01:22:38 PM
We're talking about a hypothetical unrelated to any of this. The #3 recruit in the nation is available and wants to come to MU, but all scholarships are taken. The low guy on the totem poll signed a NLI, he has everything in order, he's been accepted by MU, etc. There has been absolutely no talk from anyone about prep school, conditions, etc. Not a single problem except he's not as good as someone else who wants to play for MU. Do you dump a recruit and decide not to honor his 100% valid NLI to allow the #3 recruit in the nation to go to MU?
The next guy on the bubble doesn't matter, you could replace Reggie with any other incoming recruit with a NLI. It has to be a recruit and not EW because there are differences between how recruits and returning players are handled, notably that Buzz has the right to not renew any returning scholarship every year.
We do look at it differently. I think Buzz has a commitment to all the players and incoming recruits, not just the ones at the top of the roster.
Yes, Buzz' job is to win basketball games, Period.
Who's fresh off their 1L year and can explain the intricacies of contracts?
Simple question....is it possible to win in the Big East and still be ethical, honor commitments, etc?
Thanks
Quote from: Clarence on July 02, 2010, 01:30:03 PM
Yes, Buzz' job is to win basketball games, Period.
I think many, if not most here would argue that there's more to it than simply winning. And even if that's untrue, I believe the administration would think there's more to Buzz' job than just winning.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2010, 01:34:59 PM
Simple question....is it possible to win in the Big East and still be ethical, honor commitments, etc?
Thanks
Agreed - winning and ethics are not mutually exclusive. Note: This is not a judgment on the current situation as I have no idea what actually transpired between the athletic department and DJ's inner circle.
Quote from: copious1218 on July 02, 2010, 01:46:31 PM
Note: This is not a judgment on the current situation as I have no idea what actually transpired between the athletic department and DJ's inner circle.
THANK YOU. None of us do. I can reasonably guess its somewhere in the middle of each story we've heard.
Chicos- If you have any inside info on this, spill it. Because all you're doing now is regurgitating the talking points of one side of this story. A lot. I'd be willing to bet the majority here are freaking tired of reading it.
Amended:
Buzz' job is to win basketball games within the rules of the NCAA.
Guys, an in state talent that we have been after for years decided that he wanted to transfer to our team. To get him we had cut a 3 star kid from Pennsylvania, that signed with us late and with possible contingencies.
It sucks for Newbill, but we're not playing T-Ball here. Not everyone is going to get a trophy.
Buzz is a good guy, but he's also a highly competitive SOB. He had an opportunity to make his team better and he took it.
Why not just fire Buzz? Forget all he's done to win ten games in the Big East in his first two years. Forget making the tournament twice in two years. Forget taking a 7-man deep team, whose tallest player was 6'6" and taking them to a 5 seed.
Buzz didn't make this kid's dream come true. He put the good of the team ahead of a mediocre recruit's future as a member of a team he would probably never significantly play for.
Newbill (and Jody O'Brien) was never Marquette material, and the mistake was taking him in the first place. He sounds like a great kid and I think he'll end up at Temple, a school where he can get significant playing time and make a real difference.
Quote from: Clarence on July 02, 2010, 01:53:12 PM
Amended:
Buzz' job is to win basketball games within the rules of the NCAA.
Guys, an in state talent that we have been after for years decided that he wanted to transfer to our team. To get him we had cut a 3 star kid from Pennsylvania, that signed with us late and with possible contingencies.
It sucks for Newbill, but we're not playing T-Ball here. Not everyone is going to get a trophy.
Buzz is a good guy, but he's also a highly competitive SOB. He had an opportunity to make his team better and he took it.
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 02, 2010, 01:53:57 PM
Why not just fire Buzz? Forget all he's done to win ten games in the Big East in his first two years. Forget making the tournament twice in two years. Forget taking a 7-man deep team, whose tallest player was 6'6" and taking them to a 5 seed.
Buzz didn't make this kid's dream come true. He put the good of the team ahead of a mediocre recruit's future as a member of a team he would probably never significantly play for.
Newbill (and Jody O'Brien) was never Marquette material, and the mistake was taking him in the first place. He sounds like a great kid and I think he'll end up at Temple, a school where he can get significant playing time and make a real difference.
So, for both of you, in the hypothetical above you have no problem with dumping/buzzcutting the next lowest level recruit with a signed NLI for no other reason than because he's not as good a basketball player.
Which means that you do not place value on MU following through and honoring the commitments that it makes to it's recruits.
It also means that you should have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with what Tyshawn Taylor did two years ago because he simply had an offer available to him from a better basketball program. And you would have no problem if Jones decided to not honor his NLI because a spot opened up at UCLA. If it's ok for MU, it should be ok for the recruits right?
Correct.
Quote from: TJ on July 02, 2010, 02:03:35 PM
So, for both of you, in the hypothetical above you have no problem with dumping/buzzcutting the next lowest level recruit with a signed NLI for no other reason than because he's not as good a basketball player.
Which means that you do not place value on MU following through and honoring the commitments that it makes to it's recruits.
It also means that you should have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with what Tyshawn Taylor did two years ago because he simply had an offer available to him from a better basketball program. And you would have no problem if Jones decided to not honor his NLI because a spot opened up at UCLA. If it's ok for MU, it should be ok for the recruits right?
I had no problem with what Ty Tay did to us. This is a business and we have to do everything in our power to put the best team we cna on the court, and if he didn't want to be a part of it then fine, we have to move on.
And I hope this doesn't become a habit with Buzz but the opportunity presented itself and he reacted accordingly. I hope he doesn't go out looking for these opportunities in the future though.
I agree with doing what can be done to win ballgames. If recurits want to do the same and leave for better teams, Im fine with that as well. Only Jmay pissed me off because he was a selfish bastard and didnt leave for the opportunity of a better team like taylor with kansas.
Buzz has now ended up with the top dogs of Wisco and proven that he will do what it takes to build a winner. Our depth in 2 years will be unreal even without some of the top 2011 recruits we are still looking to get(dawson and faust). Thats all I ask for. Hes a great guy that the players love and is just trying to help us succeed.
I like haing alot of 4 year players, but sometimes you have to be like the big boys of UK and KU if you want to go far. Sometimes you have to look for talent over everything else.
Quote from: MUfan12 on July 02, 2010, 01:51:25 PM
THANK YOU. None of us do. I can reasonably guess its somewhere in the middle of each story we've heard.
Chicos- If you have any inside info on this, spill it. Because all you're doing now is regurgitating the talking points of one side of this story. A lot. I'd be willing to bet the majority here are freaking tired of reading it.
And all other people are doing is regurgitating the other side of the story. There's no balance, that's why I'm providing the other view.
Legally, they are looking at their options is what I understand. That's all I can say at this point and as much as I'm going to "spill" at this point.
If you want the 100% Koolaid version, then stay over on the Scout board where it's one view and all others are scrubbed out or deleted. Just how it is.
I remain concerned over the image of the university, some of you don't. I cherish that we've never been put on NCAA probation and have generally had a high image of the program. I believe that started to change in the final years of Crean and I haven't seen it change any differently. That's fine for some....let's hope it all works out. There can be a heavy price for pushing the envelope as there can also be heavy rewards.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:41:56 PM
... and when Crowder, DJO JJ and Blue demand to know from Buzz why they don't get to play with Irving, what do you tell them? And when they question Buzz's commitment to winning because he passes on a guy like Irving, how do you tell them they are wrong?
If you pass on Irving don't you insult the rest of the team?
So, I say you take him.
Here's what I think you say to them:
"Guys, this is going to be one of the most important lessons I can teach you here at Marquette. This is more important than basketball, and this lesson will serve you long after you give up the game. Honor your word. If you tell someone you're going to do something, do it. If you say you won't do something, don't. One of the single most important things that you can do in this world is to be a man of your word. If you ever lose that reputation, it is very, very hard to get it back.
"I told each and every one of you guys that you were part of this team, and I meant it. I'm not going to cut any of you loose today just because Kyrie Irving called me. He's a great player. Probably better than any of you. He would definitely make us a better team. But I'm a man of my word and we don't have room for him. If any one of you believes that in the best interest of the program you're willing to give up your scholarship to make room, we can talk about that. But I certainly wouldn't expect anyone here to do that. Now let's go kick Bucky's ass!"I want to add that I am responding only to the question of what we'd do if another great player became available tomorrow -- would we clear a space for him. I'm assuming that there are no other "conditional" NLI's out there and that everyone currently on the roster has a full expectation of remaining with the program. I'm not taking a position here on the Newbill situation.
Based upon what I've heard from Buzz on many occasions, this is near what I'd expect from him. This is what I'd hope he'd say.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 02, 2010, 04:28:15 PM
Here's what I think you say to them:
"Guys, this is going to be one of the most important lessons I can teach you here at Marquette. This is more important than basketball, and this lesson will serve you long after you give up the game. Honor your word. If you tell someone you're going to do something, do it. If you say you won't do something, don't. One of the single most important things that you can do in this world is to be a man of your word. If you ever lose that reputation, it is very, very hard to get it back.
"I told each and every one of you guys that you were part of this team, and I meant it. I'm not going to cut any of you loose today just because Kyrie Irving called me. He's a great player. Probably better than any of you. He would definitely make us a better team. But I'm a man of my word and we don't have room for him. If any one of you believes that in the best interest of the program you're willing to give up your scholarship to make room, we can talk about that. But I certainly wouldn't expect anyone here to do that. Now let's go kick Bucky's ass!"
If Buzz gave that speech, Cottingham should fire him. Buzz gave his word in exchange for a paycheck to put the best possible team on the court. Why does a conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit matter more? He's done all of this within the rules. Case closed.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 04:56:13 PM
If Buzz gave that speech, Cottingham should fire him. Buzz gave his word in exchange for a paycheck to put the best possible team on the court. Why does a conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit matter more? He's done all of this within the rules. Case closed.
I couldn't possibly disagree more. We'll agree to disagree because neither of is will convince the other.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2010, 03:50:12 PM
I remain concerned over the image of the university, some of you don't. I cherish that we've never been put on NCAA probation and have generally had a high image of the program. I believe that started to change in the final years of Crean and I haven't seen it change any differently. That's fine for some....let's hope it all works out. There can be a heavy price for pushing the envelope as there can also be heavy rewards.
Chico:
Image with who? The few hundred fanatics like us on this board? We don't matter. 99% of MU fans will not remember the name Newbill at midnight madness, just like they do not remember the name Roseboro or even Montrel Clark.
Our image with recruits? You think this episode is honestly going to hurt us with Dawson or Faust? If anything it will help us as this is a better team with Wilson.
Our image with mediocre recruits? Maybe but they are mediocre recruits. You can find others.
Roseboro landed at St. Bonnies. As someone earlier said, Newbill will probably end of at Temple. In the long run these are better fits.
No one likes to get fired and I'm sure Newbill is upset and angry. But we all know that these things often work out and this will for him as well.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 04:56:13 PM
If Buzz gave that speech, Cottingham should fire him. Buzz gave his word in exchange for a paycheck to put the best possible team on the court. Why does a conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit matter more? He's done all of this within the rules. Case closed.
And I should mention that I understood
your example the hypotheticalto be if Kyrie Irving called tomorrow. Thus, I didn't think we were talking about a "conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit." I thought we were talking about making room from our current roster. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that we've got another "mediocre recruit" on our team that currently has a "conditional NLI."
I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.
Edited to make clear that it wasn't AnotherMU84's hypothetical.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 02, 2010, 05:01:12 PM
I couldn't possibly disagree more. We'll agree to disagree because neither of is will convince the other.
Newbill is not coming for free. MU is prepared to spend $200k ($50k/year) on him in exchange for productivity on the basketball court. Buzz owes it to all students, alumni who donate and the board of directors to spend this money wisely. Adding Wilson means he did spend this money wisely.
If Newbill wants to go to MU so badly that he will give up basketball in exchange for financial assistance to attend MU, I will personally help him. That said, I highly doubt he is interested. He wanted to play for MU as he perceived it as the best program to advance his
basketball skills, not his academics. Given this, why do we owe him a spot?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 05:08:38 PM
Newbill is not coming for free. MU is prepared to spend $200k ($50k/year) on him in exchange for productivity on the basketball court. Buzz owes it to all students, alumni who donate and the board of directors to spend this money wisely. Adding Wilson means he did spend this money wisely.
If Newbill wants to go to MU so badly that he will give up basketball in exchange for financial assistance to attend MU, I will personally help him. That said, I highly doubt he is interested. He wanted to play for MU as he perceived it as the best program to advance his basketball skills, not his academics. Given this, why do we owe him a spot?
If you've been reading, you would know that I don't particularly have a problem with what happened with Newbill as long as the reports that Buzz made clear that he might be displaced by another recruit. My comment was in response to the hypothetical: what happens if another fabulous recruit shows up today? You said that Buzz should make room for him (obviously meaning that
another current player would have to go). I disagree.
Although I certainly don't know all the facts, my personal belief is that Buzz probably didn't break his word to Newbill. I'm inclined to think that Buzz was honest. If Buzz were to kick another player out tomorrow, the facts would be very different.
TJ seems to be offering the only rational arguments in this debate. I hardly ever post on this board as I do not feel a need. However, he actually provides logical thoughts in his statements. Instead of babbling back & forth, hopefully people respond to his logical statements.
Let me repeat myself.
If Buzz was not cheating "chaos" with the roster, here is what half our roster would be (assuming no one changed their mind since April 1 2008) ...
Pat Hazel
Mbao
Roseboro
Newbill
Reggie Smith
With the offense running through Maymon (per his father's wishes).
Also on the team would be (as they were in place on April 1, 2008):
Butler
Fulce
Mbawke
Scott C.
Ty Taylor
Two other recruits (you can pick from DJO, JJ, Blue, Crowder, EW, Junior, Dwight B and Outle)
If this was our team, We'd be looking at a second consecutive 4 and 12 season and Buzz would be on his way out.
Everyone wins with our changes ... even the recruits run off ... they are in better situations.
Thankfully Buzz is able to change.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 12:41:56 PM
... and when Crowder, DJO JJ and Blue demand to know from Buzz why they don't get to play with Irving, what do you tell them? And when they question Buzz's commitment to winning because he passes on a guy like Irving, how do you tell them they are wrong?
If you pass on Irving don't you insult the rest of the team?
So, I say you take him.
You insult the team by saying we are a family and you have my back and I have yours except and to for when I can get someone better to replace you then I'll kick your you know what to the curb. Sends a bad message in my book. You don't offer something to someone and then take it back. I don't know what the deal was with Newbill but you don't strip a scholarship from a player for no reason.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2010, 03:50:12 PM
Legally, they are looking at their options is what I understand. That's all I can say at this point and as much as I'm going to "spill" at this point.
Chicos, if you had anything to "spill," I would actually eat my own ass. Unless you are a journalist or are employed by the University, then give.
Quote from: Hamostradamus on July 02, 2010, 08:41:43 PM
Chicos, if you had anything to "spill," I would actually eat my own ass. Unless you are a journalist or are employed by the University, then give.
LOL. Would Rosiak (whom I like), ever actually do anything ever to rock the apple cart with his MU connections? Please.
Eat your ass? Would it look like this?
(http://archvillain.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/head-up-ass.jpg)
or this?
(http://www.ynz.se/therealshit/images/guest/1/20081015-headUpAss.jpg)
I think Brad has the best information on this from the other party involved. I suspect nothing happens other than a ton of hurt feelings, a kid ending up at a school other than where he was thought to have gone and a coach with a reputation that winning at all costs means just that.
Okay, that picture is actually pretty funny.
I'm sure Rosiak knows more than he reports, as does Rob Schultz, Eric Bossi, etc. Except for Peter King, who is merely a conduit for NFL players and has never actually known or reported anything of value, all reporters exercise that discretion, especially regarding medical or academic issues.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 02, 2010, 05:02:43 PM
Chico:
Image with who? The few hundred fanatics like us on this board? We don't matter. 99% of MU fans will not remember the name Newbill at midnight madness, just like they do not remember the name Roseboro or even Montrel Clark.
Yep. And the story in the MJS was about Wilson coming here. The fact that Newbill is heading somewhere else was buried so no one is going to care in a couple of weeks anyway.