MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 02, 2010, 07:35:31 AM
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Does everybody understand that only the 200 or so die-hard, message board MU fans care about this or have ever heard of DJ Newbill? I hope Buzz does.
Go get 'em Buzzard!! PRN's got your sweaty back on this one!!
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Does everybody understand that only the 200 or so die-hard, message board MU fans care about this or have ever heard of DJ Newbill? I hope Buzz does.
Go get 'em Buzzard!! PRN's got your sweaty back on this one!!
But it was on oversigning.com! EVERYONE knows about it now!
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But it was on oversigning.com! EVERYONE knows about it now!
No, but maybe we shouldn't chastise Badger or Indiana fans about their recruits. I just find our board is hypocritical when talking about the rodents. Don't talk crap about other teams and just worry about our recruits.
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Does everybody understand that only the 200 or so die-hard, message board MU fans care about this or have ever heard of DJ Newbill? I hope Buzz does.
Go get 'em Buzzard!! PRN's got your sweaty back on this one!!
You might want to go visit some other ones, there are a number of message boards that are calling us out on this from fans at other schools.
But I think that misses the bigger point....it's ok just because only diehard basketball fans know about it? That makes it ok?
I think I may have attended a different Marquette University than many of you did.
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You might want to go visit some other ones, there are a number of message boards that are calling us out on this from fans at other schools.
But I think that misses the bigger point....it's ok just because only diehard basketball fans know about it? That makes it ok?
I think I may have attended a different Marquette University than many of you did.
What other boards are talking about it? I want to check them out
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I think I may have attended a different Marquette University than many of you did.
NMU?
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Does everybody understand that only the 200 or so die-hard, message board MU fans care about this or have ever heard of DJ Newbill? I hope Buzz does.
Go get 'em Buzzard!! PRN's got your sweaty back on this one!!
The amount of people that know or care about this has no bearing on whether Buzz and MU acted properly, improperly, or somewhere in between.
If a bum gets beat up in Milwaukee does it become less wrong because nobody knows or cares about him?
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The title of this post is perfect but incomplete. It should have read "Let's be Honest, Buzz is a Chicken$hit."
After personally recruiting Newbill, he sent one his lackies to pull his scholarship. http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/high_school/20100701_Newbill_cut_loose_by_Marquette.html
No matter your personal opinion as to the realities of D1 recruiting, Buzz's handling of this matter lacked basic human respect and was contrary to MU's mission statement: http://www.marquette.edu/umi/exploring/mission.shtml
"As a Catholic, Jesuit university, Marquette recognizes and cherishes the dignity of each individual regardless of age, culture, faith, ethnicity, race, gender, sexual orientation, language, disability or social class. Precisely because Catholicism at its best seeks to be inclusive, we are open to all who share our mission and seek the truth about God and the world. Through our admissions and employment policies and practices, our curricular and co-curricular offerings, and our welcoming and caring campus environment, Marquette seeks to become a more diverse and inclusive academic community dedicated to the promotion of justice."
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What really amazes me is this: people here, other boards, student fan bases etc. sit in judgment of what we all know so little about. We are in the jury room convicting someone without knowing the full story. That just simply amazes me.
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The title of this post is perfect but incomplete. It should have read "Let's be Honest, Buzz is a Chicken$hit."
After personally recruiting Newbill, he sent one his lackies to pull his scholarship. http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/high_school/20100701_Newbill_cut_loose_by_Marquette.html
No matter your personal opinion as to the realities of D1 recruiting, Buzz's handling of this matter lacked basic human respect and was contrary to MU's mission statement: http://www.marquette.edu/umi/exploring/mission.shtml
"As a Catholic, Jesuit university, Marquette recognizes and cherishes the dignity of each individual regardless of age, culture, faith, ethnicity, race, gender, sexual orientation, language, disability or social class. Precisely because Catholicism at its best seeks to be inclusive, we are open to all who share our mission and seek the truth about God and the world. Through our admissions and employment policies and practices, our curricular and co-curricular offerings, and our welcoming and caring campus environment, Marquette seeks to become a more diverse and inclusive academic community dedicated to the promotion of justice."
Seriously?
I agree this was at best handled poorly by Buzz and staff but I don't think we should shoot this through the holier than thou jesuit values prism just yet. We don't have all of the facts yet, and we may never have them. I think we're probably pushing the grey area here but I don't think it's time to "excommunicate" Buzz or Scott just yet.
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What other boards are talking about it? I want to check them out
Just a quick run through...I get a google alert it seems 3 times a day. I'm on the iPhone right now so I'll cut and paste just a few because it's hard to post on the iPhone, but there are probably about 20 to 30 other school message boards in all that I've received alerts for
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=2509&t=6088892
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=342&f=2871&t=6087808
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=430&f=2585&t=6090017
http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/31845/t/Jamil-Wilson-to-transfer.html
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=6084317&p=1
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Holier than thou, my a$$.
I paid enough tuition to the Jesuits to know the basic difference between right and wrong.
And I'm not willing to put my interest in a competitive basketball team ahead of my interest in an ethical alma mater.
I'm embarassed, the school should be embarasseed and any self-respecting alum should be embarassed. The rest can wait for "all of the facts to come out," whenever that is, to judge Buzz for sending a lackey to pull this kid's scholarship under false pretenses.
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Just a quick run through...I get a google alert it seems 3 times a day. I'm on the iPhone right now so I'll cut and paste just a few because it's hard to post on the iPhone, but there are probably about 20 to 30 other school message boards in all that I've received alerts for
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=2509&t=6088892
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=342&f=2871&t=6087808
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=430&f=2585&t=6090017
http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/31845/t/Jamil-Wilson-to-transfer.html
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=6084317&p=1
So.... 8 people on the WVU message board, 4 on the UConn board, one on the Depaul board, and two Badger boards. What a global outcy!
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Holier than thou, my a$$.
I paid enough tution to the Jesuits to know the basic difference between right and wrong.
And I'm not willing to put my interest in a competitive basketball team ahead of my interest in an ethical alma mater.
I'm embarassed, the school should be embarasseed and any self-respecting alum should be embarassed. The rest can wait for "all of the facts to come out," whenever that is, to judge Buzz for sending a lackey to pull this kid's scholarship under false pretenses.
Really?
Fortunately, you get to spout your opinion. Buzz and the staff do not have the same opportunity.
You are disparaging Marquette having very few facts. Surely you learned that was wrong in one, or hopefully, many of your classes at MU.
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Really?
Fortunately, you get to spout your opinion. Buzz and the staff do not have the same opportunity.
You are disparaging Marquette having very few facts. Surely you learned that was wrong in one, or hopefully, many of your classes at MU.
A. Very few facts have come out, but the ones that have have looked horrible for Marquette.
B. Buzz and his staff have every opportunity in the world to spout their own opinion and to give us their side of the story. The fact that they haven't can only lead one to believe the worse scenartio instead of the better one.
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You are disparaging Marquette having very few facts.
Unfortunately, the opposite is true as well, as in, defending MU with very few facts.
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And just what would Buzz say, if given the opportunity, that would justify his actions in your mind? How about a few hypotheticals?
"I didn't call DJ myself because I was too busy praying for him at mass."
or
"I instructed my lackey to use false pretenses on advice of counsel."
or
"Fr. Wilde made me do it."
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Does everybody understand that only the 200 or so die-hard, message board MU fans care about this or have ever heard of DJ Newbill? I hope Buzz does.
Go get 'em Buzzard!! PRN's got your sweaty back on this one!!
Agree 100%. A year and a half from now, when Marquette is playing Vandy, and Jamil Wilson grabs a rebound, 75% of the crowd at the game won't be thinking to themselves "that could have been DJ Newbill".
Who cares what other people on UConn's board or West Virginia's board think anyway? If they want to discuss MU hoops, go for it, maybe talk about matching up with Wilson, Blue, Jones, etc.
And please, to those other programs, if you had a commit from a DJ Newbill type (not enrolled, no application turned into the university), and a Harrison Barnes type says "I want to go to your school", I'm 99.9% sure you're finding a way to get him in there. I'm not comparing Wilson to Barnes, but don't give me this "we're holier than you" crap. Stuff like this happens all the time, again, perfectly within the rules.
If a future recruit wants to come to Marquette, he'll come to Marquette. Does anyone really think Tokoto cares that DJ Newbill isn't going to be at Marquette?
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And please, to those other programs, if you had a commit from a DJ Newbill type (not enrolled, no application turned into the university), and a Harrison Barnes type says "I want to go to your school", I'm 99.9% sure you're finding a way to get him in there. I'm not comparing Wilson to Barnes, but don't give me this "we're holier than you" crap. Stuff like this happens all the time, again, perfectly within the rules.
I've seen other people say this, and I've asked about it. I'm honestly trying to find out whether "stuff like this happens all the time." And by "stuff like this" I'm talking about a player is recruited, is offered a scholarship, signs a NLI and then never makes it to the start of his freshman year. This has happened twice in two years at Marquette. It happened once (that I recall) in nine years under Crean. Is this really a common occurrence? Because I haven't seen it a lot and nobody has provided many other examples. Again, I'm not saying it's not common -- I really don't know.
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Buzz is trying to make us compete with the Big Boys. We are a school in Milwaukee Wisc (not on everybodies must visit list), and he is doing a admirable job in his 2nd year as a High Major head coach. He has graduated all his player's and the team represents the school well on and off the court. Has he done everything right, probably not. But at the end of the day he is working hard and I'm sure he is learning some things as he goes. He has not had a roster that is above 9 between people leaving and injured so he might be over compensating a bit. I'm not saying I think this was handled well, and I do feel bad for DJ, but at the end of the day I think it will all work out for him. I'm not sure it was in his best interest to go to to a team where he was not going to see any minutes. He was going to be the 4th guard in the 2010 class.
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So.... 8 people on the WVU message board, 4 on the UConn board, one on the Depaul board, and two Badger boards. What a global outcy!
You would think UConn fans might bite their tongue on this one
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You would think UConn fans might bite their tongue on this one
WVU with Huggins as coach is the pot calling the kettle black as well.
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So.... 8 people on the WVU message board, 4 on the UConn board, one on the Depaul board, and two Badger boards. What a global outcy!
I feel so much better about the poor judgment/actions of our coach since you've pointed out that only 14 people outside Wisconsin know about it! Doing something wrong only matters when 50+ people know about it of course.
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You would think UConn fans might bite their tongue on this one
UConn fans are wondering why we didn't just get Newbill a good paying job at the local scrap yard for a year.
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What really amazes me is this: people here, other boards, student fan bases etc. sit in judgment of what we all know so little about. We are in the jury room convicting someone without knowing the full story. That just simply amazes me.
We do know some things. We know that DJ signed a NLI. We know that that action implies that a spot is available for him on the MU basketball team. We know that he's no longer welcome to exercise that NLI and become a member of the MU basketball team. That's enough for me to know that I am at the very least disappointed by the situation.
It amazes me that people can look at the above and think nothing of it. It amazes me that they can justify it in the name of better basketball or that Buzz is just trying to keep his job. It amazes me that the defenders are willing to crucify the kid and call him names because he allegedly didn't write an essay or because he didn't follow up with Buzz enough or he should have known better, etc.
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Unfortunately, the opposite is true as well, as in, defending MU with very few facts.
Did I defend? .....I don't think I did. I am not defending, but I am not disparaging either.
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A. Very few facts have come out, but the ones that have have looked horrible for Marquette.
B. Buzz and his staff have every opportunity in the world to spout their own opinion and to give us their side of the story. The fact that they haven't can only lead one to believe the worse scenartio instead of the better one.
No they don't. He is not a signed recruit anymore. They can't comment.
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Does everybody understand that only the 200 or so die-hard, message board MU fans care about this or have ever heard of DJ Newbill? I hope Buzz does.
Go get 'em Buzzard!! PRN's got your sweaty back on this one!!
+1
Buzz is going to take MU far, can't worry about a few minor bumps
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We do know some things. We know that DJ signed a NLI. We know that that action implies that a spot is available for him on the MU basketball team. We know that he's no longer welcome to exercise that NLI and become a member of the MU basketball team. That's enough for me to know that I am at the very least disappointed by the situation.
It amazes me that people can look at the above and think nothing of it. It amazes me that they can justify it in the name of better basketball or that Buzz is just trying to keep his job. It amazes me that the defenders are willing to crucify the kid and call him names because he allegedly didn't write an essay or because he didn't follow up with Buzz enough or he should have known better, etc.
Amen, brother.
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A. Very few facts have come out, but the ones that have have looked horrible for Marquette.
B. Buzz and his staff have every opportunity in the world to spout their own opinion and to give us their side of the story. The fact that they haven't can only lead one to believe the worse scenartio instead of the better one.
A. Which facts? Specifically, please.
Here are some facts you may consider.
1. Marquette staff has said, repeatedly, for weeks that a member of the incoming class would not be coming to campus, and that person knew.
2. DJ Newbill did not complete his application requirements.
3. DJ Newbill was not on campus or signed up to participate in the pro-am.
Everything else we know comes down to he said/she said. Newbill's people say this was a surprise. Marquette's says it wasn't. I - unlike some here - won't claim to know which side is being more honest. However, the known facts tend to support Marquette's version.
If a kid is a surefire commitment, and has been for some five months (verbally) and two months (in writing), then why hasn't he applied?
If a kid is a surefire commitment, why isn't he participating in the pro am with all the other incoming freshmen? If your answer is "because nobody told him about it," why would the staff not inform a surefire commitment?
If he was a surefire commitment, why would the coaching staff be publicly stating that a recruit wasn't coming ... even after Mbao trasnferred?
Maybe there's another explanation to those questions (I'd be happy if you gave it a crack), but for now it seems to favor MU's account.
B. Yes, Buzz could say anything he wants about the situation. So long as he doesn't mind being hit with NCAA violations. Which would surely be a fireable offense, in your mind.
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A. Which facts? Specifically, please.
Here are some facts you may consider.
1. Marquette staff has said, repeatedly, for weeks that a member of the incoming class would not be coming to campus, and that person knew.
2. DJ Newbill did not complete his application requirements.
3. DJ Newbill was not on campus or signed up to participate in the pro-am.
Everything else we know comes down to he said/she said. Newbill's people say this was a surprise. Marquette's says it wasn't. I - unlike some here - won't claim to know which side is being more honest. However, the known facts tend to support Marquette's version.
If a kid is a surefire commitment, and has been for some five months (verbally) and two months (in writing), then why hasn't he applied?
If a kid is a surefire commitment, why isn't he participating in the pro am with all the other incoming freshmen? If your answer is "because nobody told him about it," why would the staff not inform a surefire commitment?
If he was a surefire commitment, why would the coaching staff be publicly stating that a recruit wasn't coming ... even after Mbao trasnferred?
Maybe there's another explanation to those questions (I'd be happy if you gave it a crack), but for now it seems to favor MU's account.
B. Yes, Buzz could say anything he wants about the situation. So long as he doesn't mind being hit with NCAA violations. Which would surely be a fireable offense, in your mind.
A1 is a fact, but is false since DJ Newbill clearly did not know about this.
A2 is not a fact, merely heresay that has been mentioned on message boards.
A3 has nothing to do with anything.
B is accurate, that is my mistake.
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I feel so much better about the poor judgment/actions of our coach since you've pointed out that only 14 people outside Wisconsin know about it! Doing something wrong only matters when 50+ people know about it of course.
and you KNOW what we did is so wrong exactly how??? Oh you don't.
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Did I defend? .....I don't think I did. I am not defending, but I am not disparaging either.
I believe so, yes.
Fortunately, you get to spout your opinion. Buzz and the staff do not have the same opportunity.
You are disparaging Marquette having very few facts. Surely you learned that was wrong in one, or hopefully, many of your classes at MU.
From those two lines, you are certainly defending MU, Buzz. Suggesting the other poster was "disparaging" clearly indicates that you believe he's wrong in doing so.
Just sayin.
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A1 is a fact, but is false since DJ Newbill clearly did not know about this.
A2 is not a fact, merely heresay that has been mentioned on message boards.
A3 has nothing to do with anything.
B is accurate, that is my mistake.
How can A1 be a fact and be false?
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A1 is a fact, but is false since DJ Newbill clearly did not know about this.
A2 is not a fact, merely heresay that has been mentioned on message boards.
A3 has nothing to do with anything.
B is accurate, that is my mistake.
A1. How could you possibly know what DJ Newbill knows and does not know? Fact is, his advisor, Phillycoach, knew that Marquette coaches were saying this, and even commented on it here several times. Do you think it likely DJ's advisor chose not to share this information with him?
A2. An absolute fact, confirmed by both DJ and his advisor.
A3. Of course it's relevant. MU made sure all its incoming players were aware and/or participating in the pro am. All except one. If, up until this week, DJ was a surefire commitment, then why would they make an exception with him?
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A1. How could you possibly know what DJ Newbill knows and does not know? Fact is, his advisor, Phillycoach, knew that Marquette coaches were saying this, and even commented on it here several times. Do you think it likely DJ's advisor chose not to share this information with him?
A2. An absolute fact, confirmed by both DJ and his advisor.
A3. Of course it's relevant. MU made sure all its incoming players were aware and/or participating in the pro am. All except one. If, up until this week, DJ was a surefire commitment, then why would they make an exception with him?
Where did his advisor confirm this?
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Where did his advisor confirm this?
Laws said Newbill never sent the school an official application, and also did not prepare a required essay. Laws said Newbill did complete the app, but did not forward it because he had yet to finish the essay, and had not been given a deadline.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/high_school/20100701_Newbill_cut_loose_by_Marquette.html#ixzz0sXtGiOfk
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Laws said Newbill never sent the school an official application, and also did not prepare a required essay. Laws said Newbill did complete the app, but did not forward it because he had yet to finish the essay, and had not been given a deadline.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/high_school/20100701_Newbill_cut_loose_by_Marquette.html#ixzz0sXtGiOfk
I stand corrected
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Holier than thou, my a$$.
I paid enough tuition to the Jesuits to know the basic difference between right and wrong.
I didn't know paying tuition got you that. Huh, that's kind of weird actually. And that you know the difference now, but didn't until you had finished college is a little alarming.
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I didn't know paying tuition got you that. Huh, that's kind of weird actually. And that you know the difference now, but didn't until you had finished college is a little alarming.
It also seems that since Jesuits provide Buzz Williams a paycheck, 3Mer would have to question the very foundation of that knowledge he gained at MU.
Man, 3Mer's world must be really upside down right now. :D
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and you KNOW what we did is so wrong exactly how??? Oh you don't.
I'm not the one who said it doesn't matter as long as only 13 people know about it. My sarcastic response was an attempt to refute that.
I know that we did something that at the very least disappoints me. I explained it clearly in a post above.
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Yeah, let's be honest.... if Buzz had passed on Wilson, criticism. Since he took Wilson, criticism.
A lot of people are taking this opportunity to post their "holier than thou" crap for their own personal aggrandizement. Enough already! We hear you and we know that you just are better than everyone else and that you just care more.
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Yeah, let's be honest.... if Buzz had passed on Wilson, criticism. Since he took Wilson, criticism.
A lot of people are taking this opportunity to post their "holier than thou" crap for their own personal aggrandizement. Enough already! We hear you and we know that you just are better than everyone else and that you just care more.
If Buzz had passed on Wilson, in all likelyhood no one would have known.
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If Buzz had passed on Wilson, in all likelyhood no one would have known.
Doubtful. That news wouldn't have lasted one 24 hour news cycle.
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Yeah, let's be honest.... if Buzz had passed on Wilson, criticism. Since he took Wilson, criticism.
A lot of people are taking this opportunity to post their "holier than thou" crap for their own personal aggrandizement. Enough already! We hear you and we know that you just are better than everyone else and that you just care more.
I can play this game too...
A lot of people are taking this opportunity to post their "I'm a bigger fan than you are" crap for their own personal aggrandizement. Enough already! We hear you and we know that you are just a bigger fan than everyone else and you just love the team more.
Reasonable minds can reach different conclusions. Just because someone supports Buzz doesn't mean he's an unprincipled prick. Just because someone doesn't like what happened here doesn't mean he hates Buzz and isn't a real MU fan. I'm not going to tell everyone to stop posting because this makes for entertaining reading. But, in the words of Rodney King, "can't we all get along?"
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If Buzz had passed on Wilson, in all likelyhood no one would have known.
It made the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel the first time he passed on Wilson.
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It also seems that since Jesuits provide Buzz Williams a paycheck, 3Mer would have to question the very foundation of that knowledge he gained at MU.
Man, 3Mer's world must be really upside down right now. :D
I'll confess I must not have paid enough tuition to understand what the F your point is. Are you saying Fr. Wilde sanctioned Buzz's decision to $crew this kid over? After all the bad press generated by Fr. Wilde rescinding MU's job offer to Professor O'Brien, do you really think he's shrugging off all the Philadelphia media coverage?
As far as the "holier than thou cr@p," for some posters (and apparently a significant %), pride in our basketball program has always been about more than wins/losses. Treating high school recruits as commodities rather than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of me.
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It made the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel the first time he passed on Wilson.
I stand corrected. I just didn't think that a transfer would go blabbing about who didn't want him.
Also, I don't really think Buzz would have gotten too much criticism for passing on him with the reason that he's already got a full roster. It would have been unfortunate and disappointing, but understandable. When you don't have a spot you can't take another scholarship on.
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I stand corrected. I just didn't think that a transfer would go blabbing about who didn't want him.
Also, I don't really think Buzz would have gotten too much criticism for passing on him with the reason that he's already got a full roster. It would have been unfortunate and disappointing, but understandable. When you don't have a spot you can't take another scholarship on.
I agree. It might have been mentioned, but I don't suspect Buzz would have been ripped over it.
If there were any criticism, it would be along the lines of "Why did Buzz give a scholie to (player x ... likely Newbill would have been the most likely mention) when Wilson could have been there for the taking?"
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I can play this game too...
A lot of people are taking this opportunity to post their "I'm a bigger fan than you are" crap for their own personal aggrandizement. Enough already! We hear you and we know that you are just a bigger fan than everyone else and you just love the team more.
Reasonable minds can reach different conclusions. Just because someone supports Buzz doesn't mean he's an unprincipled prick. Just because someone doesn't like what happened here doesn't mean he hates Buzz and isn't a real MU fan. I'm not going to tell everyone to stop posting because this makes for entertaining reading. But, in the words of Rodney King, "can't we all get along?"
Well,if you've read of my posts you will know that I have suggested that people wait for the facts before ripping anyone. No self aggrandizement involved, however, I've got your game right here.
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I'll confess I must not have paid enough tuition to understand what the F your point is. Are you saying Fr. Wilde sanctioned Buzz's decision to $crew this kid over? After all the bad press generated by Fr. Wilde rescinding MU's job offer to Professor O'Brien, do you really think he's shrugging off all the Philadelphia media coverage?
As far as the "holier than thou cr@p," for some posters (and apparently a significant %), pride in our basketball program has always been about more than wins/losses. Treating high school recruits as commodities rather than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of me.
My point is that Fr. Wild is the president of the university and therefore, his employees are an extension of him and the institution. You seem to make alot of assumptions on what went down. Do you know that Fr. Wild was not informed of the decision? Do you know what expectations he layed out for Buzz? What if he told Buzz that he had the freedom to run the program and recruiting as he saw fit, as long as no rules/laws were violated? Would that be failing to live up to his Jesuit values?
What action does Fr. Wild have to take to give you confidence that he is living up to his mission statement? Does Buzz need to be fired? Publicly reprimanded? If you are willing to assume that Buzz is firmly in the wrong and seemingly goes unpunished, then don't you have to assume that Fr. Wild is complicit? Or would you choose to assume that Fr. Wild handled things appropriately behind closed doors? You seem to be making selective assumptions.
Furthermore, if treating basketball recruits like commodities RATHER than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of you, then you probably should have walked away from major college athletics a long time ago.
That being said, this situation bothers me too and my pride in the bball program is not based solely on wins and losses. I hope Fr. Wild deals with the situation with the appropriate level of firmness, humility, and grace which your intital post lacked, IMO. I certainly hope he doesn't choose to wield his Jesuit values as a tool to condemn a faithful employee as you seem so willing to do on his behalf.
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So.... 8 people on the WVU message board, 4 on the UConn board, one on the Depaul board, and two Badger boards. What a global outcy!
You do have a reading problem, don't you. I said I only copied a few as I was on my iPhone. It would make your argument much stronger if you actually read the post before a flippant response.
I said there were more schools, I never said anything about volume. And just because 4 people responded doesn't mean 500 didn't read it....it's crazy how that whole message board thing works. I suppose in your universe if there is one letter to the editor in the newspaper about an article, it means only one person read it. :o
There were others, like the Illinois boards, etc but it doesn't matter if 1000 people responded or 2, you're hell bent that it's ok to dump a kid like this so what does it really matter.
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How many people care should have little barring on how we view this situation.
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You do have a reading problem, don't you. I said I only copied a few as I was on my iPhone. It would make your argument much stronger if you actually read the post before a flippant response.
I said there were more schools, I never said anything about volume. And just because 4 people responded doesn't mean 500 didn't read it....it's crazy how that whole message board thing works. I suppose in your universe if there is one letter to the editor in the newspaper about an article, it means only one person read it. :o
There were others, like the Illinois boards, etc but it doesn't matter if 1000 people responded or 2, you're hell bent that it's ok to dump a kid like this so what does it really matter.
On the Illinois Scout board the only one to bring Marquette into the discussion was a Wisc fan posting on their board
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Furthermore, if treating basketball recruits like commodities RATHER than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of you, then you probably should have walked away from major college athletics a long time ago.
That being said, this situation bothers me to and my pride in the bball program is based solely on wins and losses. I hope Fr. Wild deals with the situation with the appropriate level of firmness, humility, and grace which your intital post lacked, IMO. I certainly hope he doesn't choose to wield his Jesuit values as a tool to condemn a faithful employee as you seem so willing to do on his behalf.
And my point is that just because the principles of contract law haven't been adopted by the NCAA (shock!) doesn't justify treating children as pawns. If it were otherwise, DJ would be collecting on a settlement as lucrative as that which Professor O'Brien signed.
But legalities aside, I find cynicism such as yours sickening. If Fr. Wilde sanctioned the manner in which this matter was handled, he learned nothing from the O'Brien incident. I am not so cynical, and believe that Buzz is getting an earful from Fr. Wilde about treating recruits with respect.
At the very least, DJ deserved a personal call from Buzz, honesty and an apology.
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At the very least, DJ deserved a personal call from Buzz, honesty and an apology.
You, nor I, have no idea whether he got the second. If he did, there's asbolutely no need for the third.
As for the first, I agree.
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On the Illinois Scout board the only one to bring Marquette into the discussion was a Wisc fan posting on their board
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Correct, followed by UI members comments.
A more robust discussion is on the Premium Orange and Blue board
http://illinois.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=922&fid=1737&style=2
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I believe so, yes.
From those two lines, you are certainly defending MU, Buzz. Suggesting the other poster was "disparaging" clearly indicates that you believe he's wrong in doing so.
Just sayin.
I do lean toward IWB's story, because he is a credible source. I think it was a mistake on MU's part to accept the NLI, only because it puts egg on Buzz's face.
If more facts become available, I will evaluate them. If I'm wrong, so be it.
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As far as the "holier than thou cr@p," for some posters (and apparently a significant %), pride in our basketball program has always been about more than wins/losses. Treating high school recruits as commodities rather than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of me.
Can I assume you are going to get rid of your season tickets in protest?
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If Fr. Wilde sanctioned the manner in which this matter was handled, he learned nothing from the O'Brien incident. I am not so cynical, and believe that Buzz is getting an earful from Fr. Wilde about treating recruits with respect.
Get real. MU isn't some family run restaurant with 6 employees... Its a major national university, big business. If you think for one moment that Fr. Wild was at all involved with the DJ Newbill situation your incredibly naive.
I mean, there is a reason MU has a whole athletic department and AD, right??
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If this type of recruiting becomes the norm, yeah, I'd get rid of my season tickets -- and I'll bet I won't be the only one. If I want to watch a cutthroat, unprincipled, unscrupulous basketball program, I'll just get NBA tickets. At least in the NBA, management can't $crew over the athletes without legal ramifications.
And as for naive, if anyone believes that Fr. Wilde or the Board of Directors is turning a blind eye to this situation, particularly after just suffering through the national debacle that was the O'Brien un-hiring, they ought to get a clue.
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Who wants to be a Division III program? We are playing for NCAA Division I championships here. We have millions of dollars invested.
Recruits have advisors from 8th grade on. They hope to be in the Association some day. They know what is at stake. This is big boy basketball.
Based on the info that we have, MU has made a PR blunder, nothing more. If other info turns up, I'll eat crow and admit that MU screwed up.
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And my point is that just because the principles of contract law haven't been adopted by the NCAA (shock!) doesn't justify treating children as pawns. If it were otherwise, DJ would be collecting on a settlement as lucrative as that which Professor O'Brien signed.
But legalities aside, I find cynicism such as yours sickening. If Fr. Wilde sanctioned the manner in which this matter was handled, he learned nothing from the O'Brien incident. I am not so cynical, and believe that Buzz is getting an earful from Fr. Wilde about treating recruits with respect.
At the very least, DJ deserved a personal call from Buzz, honesty and an apology.
First, to clarify, I meant to say that I do NOT base my pride in MU bball solely on wins and losses. I fixed the original post.
Now to your points:
I do not think it is justified to treat "children" or in some cases young men as pawns. Buzz's intent matters here. If Buzz thought that he made the situation clear to DJ and DJ agreed to proceed, then Buzz is guilty of poor communication and probably an error in judgement. You seem to assume that Buzz and the MU staff intentionally deceived DJ, conned him into a bogus agreement, then dumped him with no explanation. Isn't that a little cynical of you?
Why do you choose to believe that Fr. Wild, who has recently demonstrated his own communication / judgement issues, is clearly on the "right" side of things but Buzz is clearly in the wrong? Is it possible that the truth is actually more complicated than your black and white version? Again, do you know that Fr. Wild communicated his expectations clearly and effectively to Buzz in order to prevent situations like this? If he did, then Buzz failed to live up to expectations and could justifiably be punished or fired. If he didn't, then he shares some of the responsibility and should take this opportunity to clarify those expectations.
I don't think my view of this situation is overly cynical. I think our coach probably wandered a little too far into the vast grey area of recruiting ethics and Fr. Wild should probably start pulling him back a little bit. I say probably because we honestly don't know if Buzz was intentionally dishonest. Based on Buzz's performance so far, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up as poor communication and poor judgement. Those errors need to be corrected but I will not go as far to say that he disgusts me or is "chicken$hit." Like I said before, hopefully Fr. Wild chooses to handle the situation with a little more dignity and grace than the condemnation he is getting from some.
Also, Buzz should have called him. Hopefully he reaches out at some point if that is allowed by the NCAA.
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And as for naive, if anyone believes that Fr. Wilde or the Board of Directors is turning a blind eye to this situation, particularly after just suffering through the national debacle that was the O'Brien un-hiring, they ought to get a clue.
Yeah, I'm sure that the BOD is going to have an emergency conference call next week about a basketball player who never even submitted an application to MU ::)
As PRN stated, the only people who care about this are basketball fans on the message boards. Please, get some perspective on the situation.
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Yeah, I'm sure that the BOD is going to have an emergency conference call next week about a basketball player who never even submitted an application to MU ::)
As PRN stated, the only people who care about this are basketball fans on the message boards. Please, get some perspective on the situation.
Try reading a Philly newspaper. It's only the nation's sixth largest city. I'm sure the Board of Directors could care less how MU is portrayed in that media market, smart@ss.
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Well,if you've read of my posts you will know that I have suggested that people wait for the facts before ripping anyone. No self aggrandizement involved, however, I've got your game right here.
I wasn't specifically directing my post at you (just like I suspect you weren't specifically directing yours at me). It was just a general comment that two sides are getting totally entrenched and it seems silly. Sorry if it appeared that I was calling you out (and, in retrospect, I can see why it would appear that way).
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I wasn't specifically directing my post at you (just like I suspect you weren't specifically directing yours at me). It was just a general comment that two sides are getting totally entrenched and it seems silly. Sorry if it appeared that I was calling you out (and, in retrospect, I can see why it would appear that way).
No problem, Still. We're all on the same side.
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We're all on the same side.
Bears repeating.
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Who wants to be a Division III program? We are playing for NCAA Division I championships here. We have millions of dollars invested.
Recruits have advisors from 8th grade on. They hope to be in the Association some day. They know what is at stake. This is big boy basketball.
Based on the info that we have, MU has made a PR blunder, nothing more. If other info turns up, I'll eat crow and admit that MU screwed up.
So are a lot of other programs but they aren't doing this.
In all honesty, can someone come up with a bunch of examples where a kid signed a letter of intent and then was completely kicked to the curb which DID NOT have anything to do with legal or academic issues?
I'd like to see all these examples that people here say "happens all the time in this big time business". If it does, can we see 25 examples since it happens so often? I'm not just talking to you, this is for anyone.
Kids get let out of NLI for not passing their test scores or breaking the law....I'd like to see examples where this situation happens where a kid is NCAA qualified (and we've taken PLENTY of NCAA qualified kids in the past) and did not have a legal issue that resulted in this buzz cutting.