MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 4everwarriors on July 02, 2010, 05:33:20 AM
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for us to become completely polarized on Buzz. Wow, much early than with the departed. Time will tell which camp's opinion rings true. If Williams produces on the court, as all coaches ultimately are judged by performance, he'll be idolized. If, on the other hand, the program blows both on the court and off, adios MF'er and the horse you rode in on. Such is the behavior of we, the fans.
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for us to become completely polarized on Buzz. Wow, much early than with the departed. Time will tell which camp's opinion rings true. If Williams produces on the court, as all coaches ultimately are judged by performance, he'll be idolized. If, on the other hand, the program blows both on the court and off, adios MF'er and the horse you rode in on. Such is the behavior of we, the fans.
Don't you think you are overstating the situation?
Only the lunatic fringe have become completely polarized on Buzz. IMO, the vast majority of MU fans have adopted a wait and see approach and have given the benefit of the doubt (and there are plenty of doubts to go around) to Buzz and the program. Whe the facts are known most of us will come to our own conclusions. Until then, it is silly to be critical of Buzz and the program since we really don't know if he/MU did anything to be critical of and criticism of either party is mere conjecture. Why don't we all give this subject and the multiple threads it has spun off, a rest.
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Hey, I'm in Buzz's corner. But, can we all agree, at the very least he's exercised poor judgment on several occasions? He's young and so I expect he'll learn from these experiences.
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I wish that he had never lost his cool with Mac, and that he had recognized earlier that Roseboro was not BE ready. Not nearly enough for me to become completely polarized or even more than slightly annoyed with Buzz or the program.
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I wish that he had never lost his cool with Mac, and that he had recognized earlier that Roseboro was not BE ready. Not nearly enough for me to become completely polarized or even more than slightly annoyed with Buzz or the program.
Would you feel the same way if we had finished 9th in the BEast last year and went to the NIT?
Should it matter?
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Hey, I'm in Buzz's corner. But, can we all agree, at the very least he's exercised poor judgment on several occasions? He's young and so I expect he'll learn from these experiences.
I agree. You say Buzz is wrong on a situation and you come across as a Buzz hater on this board. I find Buzz as an above average coach/recruiter and human being. That said, I will never completely trust a NCAA D-1 coach.
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for us to become completely polarized on Buzz.
If by 'us' you mean the nerds on boards like this one, then I agree. If you mentioned DJ Newbill in a crowded room of normal MU fans, the majority of them wouldn't know what you are talking about (even though the story was on oversigning.com.).
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Would you feel the same way if we had finished 9th in the BEast last year and went to the NIT?
Should it matter?
At least if we finished 9th in the BE and went to the NIT I'd actually have something over which to be upset.
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Don't you think you are overstating the situation?
Only the lunatic fringe have become completely polarized on Buzz. IMO, the vast majority of MU fans have adopted a wait and see approach and have given the benefit of the doubt (and there are plenty of doubts to go around) to Buzz and the program. Whe the facts are known most of us will come to our own conclusions. Until then, it is silly to be critical of Buzz and the program since we really don't know if he/MU did anything to be critical of and criticism of either party is mere conjecture. Why don't we all give this subject and the multiple threads it has spun off, a rest.
This is a huge overstatement of the situation. The only place i hear anything about the newbill situation is on this board or from obscure blogs posted on this board. I don't hear the outrage from the local media or sports talk shows that I hear from Chicos and others. Everything I have heard has been positive about Wilson coming in. The fact of the matter is the comments on this board represent a small portion of the fan base.
I think we have beaten this dead horse enough. We all get that chicos and others are outraged. I am sure Chicos got a hard on when he could find something that he could rail on Buzz for. I am sure he will come back and say something like, I like Buzz, but we need to give it 3 to 5 years why are you drinking the kool aid, blah blah blah. Why don't you give it 3 to 5 years when Buzz does something you feel isn't right. Why do we get inundated with outraged posts and blogs when you want to criticize but when he is a great representative of the University for 2 years all we get is, lets give it "3 to 5 years"
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Why, hairyworthen? Because Chicos is a hypocritical loser that thinks the world revolves around everything he says, and he'll post anything to create drama.
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At least if we finished 9th in the BE and went to the NIT I'd actually have something over which to be upset.
Well said.
I mean, for pete's sake, people really still have their panties in a bunch over an odd radio exchange from some 18 months ago? An odd radio exchange for which Buzz very publicly apoligized ... an apology likely heard by far more people than the initial exchange? A radio exchange that the so-called victim of which has said is not, a never was, a big deal or cause for offense?
Let's face it, there's a small segment here of those who initially opposed Buzz's hiring who now, two years later, continue to harp on every error or perceived fault in an effort to justify their initial opposition.
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The only people that care are on this board. No other MU fans or college fans care at all. Nothing is polarizing about this, and I'm sure the people in the athletic department are wondering what all the hubbub is about. He's been telling this to us for months, the DJ camp obviously knew it was possible, failure to recognize that is just dumb. If it weren't for 2 people on this board, there would be 1 thread on the matter, IWB's statement would come out, and that would be that.
Can't somebody make a Vander Blue FIBA mixtape or something to start a new topic?
Now if someone can tell me why Jae isn't in the Milwaukee ProAm or why we haven't heard anything about him in a while, that would be interesting.
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Can't somebody make a Vander Blue FIBA mixtape or something to start a new topic?
Now if someone can tell me why Jae isn't in the Milwaukee ProAm or why we haven't heard anything about him in a while, that would be interesting.
+12
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Hey, I'm in Buzz's corner. But, can we all agree, at the very least he's exercised poor judgment on several occasions? He's young and so I expect he'll learn from these experiences.
+1.
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I do not believe we are polarized about Buzz. I take that comment to mean some of us dislike Buzz, or perhaps wish he wasn't our coach. -- A statement I do not believe in the least.
I think there's a lot of teeth gnashing about a handful of recruiting decisions and/or off-court issues that people are critical of. I deem most of them legit questions, where you can fall on one side or the other "if you were the coach, calling the shots."
That's not polarization. -- Honestly, the camps are probably (not completely) the same as they were for TC, as those who recognize what TC brought to MU often see double-standards being applied to Buzz.
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I am still a believer in Buzz and as long as he produces on the court and is not breaking any rules, I will continue to support him. That being said, I do not like the fact that our roster seems to be in constantly in flux and every few months or so we have another story about a player that "has decided to part ways with MU...we wish him the best of luck in his future pursuits, blah, blah, blah." Unfortunately high major basketball is a cutthroat business and this is part of it.
Now let's see some YouTube clips of Jamil Wilson dunking on people on move on. I'm already getting tired of watching baseball.
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Hey, I'm in Buzz's corner. But, can we all agree, at the very least he's exercised poor judgment on several occasions? He's young and so I expect he'll learn from these experiences.
I'm in Buzz's corner as well, he just made a bad mistake here. I certainly don't want him fired but I'd like someone at MU to say this crosses the line.
We seem to have made a shift in the last few years with a Go For Broke mentality and are doing some things we did not do in the past.
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I am still in Buzz's corner. I just wish he would have accepted a verbal commitment from Newbill instead of having him sign an NLI. The NLI signing part is what I do not understand. Why sign a player you are going to actively over recruit. That part makes no sense to me.
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Besides that in another 821 days this will all be forgotten about.
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Besides that in another 821 days this will all be forgotten about.
Unless it happens again.
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for us to become completely polarized on Buzz. Wow, much early than with the departed. Time will tell which camp's opinion rings true. If Williams produces on the court, as all coaches ultimately are judged by performance, he'll be idolized. If, on the other hand, the program blows both on the court and off, adios MF'er and the horse you rode in on. Such is the behavior of we, the fans.
Yeah - Considering the talent on the roster now - I'm pretty sure our program won't blow on the court. There has never been more talent assembled at MU than there is currently and particularily for the 2011-2012 season. So, I'm quite confident we won't be saying adios MF'er and the horse you rode in on. What kind of statement is that anyway? My money is that Buzz will be idolized - and adios to the MF'ers and the horse they rode in on who have been ultra critical of Buzz.
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I am still in Buzz's corner. I just wish he would have accepted a verbal commitment from Newbill instead of having him sign an NLI. The NLI signing part is what I do not understand. Why sign a player you are going to actively over recruit. That part makes no sense to me.
This is a great point.
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I am still in Buzz's corner. I just wish he would have accepted a verbal commitment from Newbill instead of having him sign an NLI. The NLI signing part is what I do not understand. Why sign a player you are going to actively over recruit. That part makes no sense to me.
Who knows maybe the kid was so excited about the possibility that he was adamnant about signing and Buzz relented with the caveat that they may find someone else. Sometimes when you try and do someone a favor it comes back to bite you in the ars. I am not saying that is what happened but maybe a possibility. Still Buzzes fault. I agree a verbal would have been better.
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This has become ridiculous. People claim to know the real story or have sources blah blah blah....by all accounts Buzz didn't break any rules and, according to some, MU was open with Newbill on what the priorities of the team were in terms of position players, priorities, etc. but he decided to sign with MU anyway. Should Buzz have had him stick to a verbal rather than sign a LOI? Probably. Lesson learned. Does it suck for DJ? Yes it does. Choose to believe whichever version you want....it's not going to change that we just inherited a consensus top 50/100 player.
What would people say if they found out Wilson wanted to transfer here and MU simply said "no thanks?" I'm guessing a lot of the people trying to take the high road by criticizing Buzz would also be the ones complaining that we blew an opportunity with Wilson and instead added to our logjam of guards/wings. Which one is it?
In two years when MU is ranked 9th in the country and playing for a 3 seed I'm guessing a lot of the complainers will be pretty pleased about the state of the program. We've come a long way from accepting a last minute, out-of-nowhere recruit to fill out a class (i.e. Mbao).
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Unless it happens again.
Love the optimism.
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What would people say if they found out Wilson wanted to transfer here and MU simply said "no thanks?" I'm guessing a lot of the people trying to take the high road by criticizing Buzz would also be the ones complaining that we blew an opportunity with Wilson and instead added to our logjam of guards/wings. Which one is it?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's why Buzz gets paid the big bucks.
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What would people say if they found out Wilson wanted to transfer here and MU simply said "no thanks?" I'm guessing a lot of the people trying to take the high road by criticizing Buzz would also be the ones complaining that we blew an opportunity with Wilson and instead added to our logjam of guards/wings. Which one is it?
I think people would understand that it was logistically impossible since most people view contracts as guaranteed and once they are signed they are screwed.
Also, I think people are too much on the extremes. You have people making threads about if this was a fireable offense and others saying I absolutely trust Buzz was completely honest and did everything 100% by the books (the same people who would say Bo is the devil for the same thing)
Buzz made a tough choice. I don't blame him for doing it, but I'm definitely not proud to bring up the Wilson transfer to alumns of different schools.
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I'm in Buzz's corner as well, he just made a bad mistake here. I certainly don't want him fired but I'd like someone at MU to say this crosses the line.
We seem to have made a shift in the last few years with a Go For Broke mentality and are doing some things we did not do in the past.
I was dismayed when Buzz went off on Mac after the Georgetown game, there's no doubt he made a mistake on Roseboro and I wish he would have never let DJ sign a LOI. That said, I think he's a remarkable guy whose had a terrific first 821 days at Marquette. In spite of what you have written I have never "polished his knob" nor do I view him as a saint or a god. I am, however, firmly in his corner.
You probably have 750-1000 posts relating to Buzz from his hiring until today. If Buzz wanted to totally waste a day and read them all, think he'd come to the conclusion that you're "in his corner"? If the way you've reacted to his hiring, his coaching and his recruiting is your definition of being "in his corner" please stay out of mine.
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mistakes buzz has made: Made a premature judgement on Roseboro's ability. Thought he could control Tim Maymon. Overreacted in the heat of the moment to a question. Took a flyer on a 7'2 player. Continued to recruit over a player who signed a NLI after (maybe) telling him he was going to. If I can go 27 months and only make that many (gasp! horrible!) mistakes, I feel pretty damned good about myself.
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Hey, I'm in Buzz's corner. But, can we all agree, at the very least he's exercised poor judgment on several occasions? He's young and so I expect he'll learn from these experiences.
Considering no one knows any of the facts, just a stupid post. You have no clue what judgement was used considering you (we) know absolutely nothing but rumor and inuendo.
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Considering no one knows any of the facts, just a stupid post. You have no clue what judgement was used considering you (we) know absolutely nothing but rumor and inuendo.
We do know that 3 different parties feel that they have been wronged by Buzz during his tenure at MU. We also know that there are people affiliated with UNO that feel the same way. These facts are, at best, indicators of poor communication and/or poor judgement.
This is a problem that needs to be addressed and corrected.
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Which 3 parties? Roseboro never criticized Buzz, his coaches did. Tim Maymon being upset about the offense not being run through his son who was playing a post by default? Really? You would even consider that as a rational complaint? Big Mac for Buzz getting upset with him? No. I count 1 with a possible legitimate gripe.
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Which 3 parties? Roseboro never criticized Buzz, his coaches did. Tim Maymon being upset about the offense not being run through his son who was playing a post by default? Really? You would even consider that as a rational complaint? Big Mac for Buzz getting upset with him? No. I count 1 with a possible legitimate gripe.
Which 3 parties?
Uhhhh... you just named them.
You can dismiss them all as irrational or unjustified if you want to, but the fact remains that they perceived to have been wronged by Buzz. To me that indicates a communication problem or an error in judgement for recruting Roseboro, dealing with the Maymons, and failing to see the potential fall out in rescinding a signed offer.
Am I missing something? Three instances, four if you count UNO, makes a trend in my view. Time for Buzz to take a look in the mirror and see what he can do to prevent these types of things from happening in the future.
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I don't think Mac ever felt he was "wronged" by Buzz. Mac went out of his way to say he didn't think it was a big deal and graciously accepted Buzz's apology.
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I don't think Mac ever felt he was "wronged" by Buzz. Mac went out of his way to say he didn't think it was a big deal and graciously accepted Buzz's apology.
I never mentioned Mac.
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Well then I would like to graciously apologize. I took it out of context from your quoted portion. My bad.
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We do know that 3 different parties feel that they have been wronged by Buzz during his tenure at MU. We also know that there are people affiliated with UNO that feel the same way. These facts are, at best, indicators of poor communication and/or poor judgement.
This is a problem that needs to be addressed and corrected.
We know that more than 100 million people feel wronged by both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama. The only thing this "fact" is indicative of is that people feel wronged when they don't get what they want. Sometimes they've got a legit beef. Most times they don't. One thing is constant: they'll be no shortage of people making judgements without the facts.
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Chicos got a hard on
Do you have firsthand knowledge of the situation?
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We know that more than 100 million people feel wronged by both Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama. The only thing this "fact" is indicative of is that people feel wronged when they don't get what they want. Sometimes they've got a legit beef. Most times they don't. One thing is constant: they'll be no shortage of people making judgements without the facts.
This is a stretch and you know it.
How many people have had personal interaction with the president? How many people have sat down one on one with Obama and made a personal agreement with him? Your analogy is weak.
I'm not naieve enough to believe that what Buzz did doesn't go on at a lot of schools but I don't remember many instances where former players, recruits, parents, or high school coaches made it a public issue. To me, that indicates a problem. Maybe it is a PR problem but it is still a problem.
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I'm in Buzz's corner as well, he just made a bad mistake here. I certainly don't want him fired but I'd like someone at MU to say this crosses the line.
We seem to have made a shift in the last few years with a Go For Broke mentality and are doing some things we did not do in the past.
Wow, if that is how you are in someone's corners, please, please never ever be in my corner.
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Which 3 parties?
Uhhhh... you just named them.
You can dismiss them all as irrational or unjustified if you want to, but the fact remains that they perceived to have been wronged by Buzz. To me that indicates a communication problem or an error in judgement for recruting Roseboro, dealing with the Maymons, and failing to see the potential fall out in rescinding a signed offer.
Am I missing something? Three instances, four if you count UNO, makes a trend in my view. Time for Buzz to take a look in the mirror and see what he can do to prevent these types of things from happening in the future.
So, we should be worrying ourselves over people who feel "wronged" by Buzz, whether such feeling is justified or not? Really?
IMO, Newbill may very well be justified. Roseboro and Maymom? C'mon.
Buzz ultimately did Roseboro a favor with the way he handled his departure. Are we really going to start bashing coaches for hurting players' feelings every time they make a recruiting mistake? Is there a coach out there that doesn't make recruiting mistakes?
And Maymon ... well, I'm not sure what to say about that other than I'm not sure why anyone would fret over the hurt feelings of a freshman whose daddy thought the offense should run through him.
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Wow, if that is how you are in someone's corners, please, please never ever be in my corner.
Why, you want nothing but yes men in your life? Sorry, tough love and critical evaluation are important.
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I do not think Roseboro was run off by Buzz. There was room on the team for him and coaches want enough players to practice. Now, Buzz might have run off Roseboro after the freshman year was completed if he stayed. That may or may not have happen to Mbao, we will never know for sure. But it does not make sense for Buzz to run Roseboro off before the season. But on the other hand this Newbill thing does not make sense either. Maybe Buzz really thought Newbill was going to prep school and he ran Mbao off so Wilson could have Mbao's spot. At this point nobody really knows what the hell was Buzz thinking.
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Which 3 parties?
Uhhhh... you just named them.
You can dismiss them all as irrational or unjustified if you want to, but the fact remains that they perceived to have been wronged by Buzz. To me that indicates a communication problem or an error in judgement for recruting Roseboro, dealing with the Maymons, and failing to see the potential fall out in rescinding a signed offer.
Am I missing something? Three instances, four if you count UNO, makes a trend in my view. Time for Buzz to take a look in the mirror and see what he can do to prevent these types of things from happening in the future.
Perceiving being wronged by Buzz does not equal being wronged by Buzz. Roseboro ended up in a program more in line with his abilities and Tim Maymon chas no credibility. Ours is a litigous society, so if, theoretically, Buzz was put on trial for his behavior toward Roseboro or Maymon, would they have a case? IMO, by any reasonable standard, Buzz is clean on those two.
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So, we should be worrying ourselves over people who feel "wronged" by Buzz, whether such feeling is justified or not? Really?
IMO, Newbill may very well be justified. Roseboro and Maymom? C'mon.
Buzz ultimately did Roseboro a favor with the way he handled his departure. Are we really going to start bashing coaches for hurting players' feelings every time they make a recruiting mistake? Is there a coach out there that doesn't make recruiting mistakes?
And Maymon ... well, I'm not sure what to say about that other than I'm not sure why anyone would fret over the hurt feelings of a freshman whose daddy thought the offense should run through him.
It's not about the results or the individuals, it's about the potential of developing the general perception that Buzz and MU push the ethical boundries and habitually say one thing and do another when dealing with recruits. The Maymons are crazy and I don't really care about their feelings but I'm not sure Buzz should have gotten involved with them when so many others chose to stay away. Hell, I don't really feel that bad for Newbill. He will soon get the opportunity to earn a college degree for playing a game. Not a bad deal.
All I am saying is that Buzz and MU should look in the mirror and figure out what they need to do to keep this from happening in the future. Is that such a big deal?
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It's not about the results or the individuals, it's about the potential of developing the general perception that Buzz and MU push the ethical boundries and habitually say one thing and do another when dealing with recruits. The Maymons are crazy and I don't really care about their feelings but I'm not sure Buzz should have gotten involved with them when so many others chose to stay away. Hell, I don't really feel that bad for Newbill. He will soon get the opportunity to earn a college degree for playing a game. Not a bad deal.
All I am saying is that Buzz and MU should look in the mirror and figure out what they need to do to keep this from happening in the future.
That's where i'm at with this whole issue.
I'm not going crazy over this, but don't like at all how it looks either. My sincere hope is this was simply a case of Buzz trying to hard to make the program strong on the court and in the process maybe lost his moral compass a bit. Hopefully Buzz learned a lesson from this situation and thus something similar never arises again.
If so, then i can give Buzz a pass on this and chalk it up to a zealous young first time head coach who might have let the pressure of big time college athletics get him to do something that in retrospect he wishes he had handled differently overall. If though this situation is something that going forward shows to have not been an isolated incident, but instead a pattern in how Buzz deals with recruits, then i'll quickly start losing the strong respect i had developed for coach Williams and i'll also have a hard time believing his proclamations about how much he cares about the kids compared to just wanting to win.
Just like sometimes student athletes make mistakes and so long as it's not something involving say violence against someone else, i generally am one to prefer not condemning them to harshly, coaches can make mistakes also. They are human and the pressures of big time college athletics is intense. It's when coaches don't learn from mistakes and are content with conducting themselves like sleazeballs 24/7 if it results in wins that i can no longer respect them. I'm not there with Buzz and really hope i never get there because i like the man.
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That's where i'm at with this whole issue.
I'm not going crazy over this, but don't like at all how it looks either. My sincere hope is this was simply a case of Buzz trying to hard to make the program strong on the court and in the process maybe lost his moral compass a bit. Hopefully Buzz learned a lesson from this situation and thus something similar never arises again.
If so, then i can give Buzz a pass on this and chalk it up to a zealous young first time head coach who might have let the pressure of big time college athletics get him to do something that in retrospect he wishes he had handled differently overall. If though this situation is something that going forward shows to have not been an isolated incident, but instead a pattern in how Buzz deals with recruits, then i'll quickly start losing the strong respect i had developed for coach Williams and i'll also have a hard time believing his proclamations about how much he cares about the kids compared to just wanting to win.
Just like sometimes student athletes make mistakes and so long as it's not something involving say violence against someone else, i generally am one to prefer not condemning them to harshly, coaches can make mistakes also. They are human and the pressures of big time college athletics is intense. It's when coaches don't learn from mistakes and are content with conducting themselves like sleazeballs 24/7 if it results in wins that i can no longer respect them. I'm not there with Buzz and really hope i never get there because i like the man.
Careful. Ners will probably want to ban you for this. Constructive critcism and any amount of scrutiny means you have an agenda.
But seriously, you and I are on the exact same page here. I know it's a little complicated for some to grasp but this is exactly what I have been trying to say.
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It's not about the results or the individuals, it's about the potential of developing the general perception that Buzz and MU push the ethical boundries and habitually say one thing and do another when dealing with recruits. The Maymons are crazy and I don't really care about their feelings but I'm not sure Buzz should have gotten involved with them when so many others chose to stay away. Hell, I don't really feel that bad for Newbill. He will soon get the opportunity to earn a college degree for playing a game. Not a bad deal.
All I am saying is that Buzz and MU should look in the mirror and figure out what they need to do to keep this from happening in the future. Is that such a big deal?
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Where you see three occurrences that form some kind of pattern of behavior, real or perceived, I see three individual cases, each with unique circumstances, timelines, causes and outcomes.
It's not a big deal that you think MU shouldn't do this again. I agree completely. I've said, repeatedly, that this was a bad way of going about the business of recruiting college basketball players.
At the same time, the histrionics we've seen here about how Buzz Williams ruined a young man's life, how Marquette is now one of "those" programs, how the university's Jesuit values have been torn asunder, etc., are maddeningly over the top, particularly coming from people who don't know exactly what happened and why (and I'm not claiming I know any more than they do, just that I'm willing to admit I don't know exactly what happened and why) . I'm not accusing you of being of that mindset, but certainly plenty others around here appear to be.
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Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Where you see three occurrences that form some kind of pattern of behavior, real or perceived, I see three individual cases, each with unique circumstances, timelines, causes and outcomes.
It's not a big deal that you think MU shouldn't do this again. I agree completely. I've said, repeatedly, that this was a bad way of going about the business of recruiting college basketball players.
At the same time, the histrionics we've seen here about how Buzz Williams ruined a young man's life, how Marquette is now one of "those" programs, how the university's Jesuit values have been torn asunder, etc., are maddeningly over the top, particularly coming from people who don't know exactly what happened and why (and I'm not claiming I know any more than they do, just that I'm willing to admit I don't know exactly what happened and why) . I'm not accusing you of being of that mindset, but certainly plenty others around here appear to be.
I actually think we agree more than you think. Coincidentally, I may be doing a poor job effectively communicating my point. ;)
I also see each individual case and give Buzz the benefit of the doubt. However, I do believe that each of these individual cases could give outsiders a perception that MU is pushing the ethical boundries. Because of that, I would hope that MU and Buzz take a good look at how they can prevent these cases from popping up in the future. That could be accomplished in a number of ways and I don't think it needs to be made public.
Can we agree that it might be a good idea for MU and Buzz to re-evaluate some of his recruiting practices?
The solution may be as simple as communicating better or a little more clear cut like not taking risks on guys with baggage like Maymon or not allowing the practice of over-sigining. I choose to give Buzz the benefit of the doubt and will chalk this up to communication issues. I don't really see an issue with over-signing if all parties know what they are getting into.
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Can we agree that it might be a good idea for MU and Buzz to re-evaluate some of his recruiting practices?
The solution may be as simple as communicating better or a little more clear cut like not taking risks on guys with baggage like Maymon or not allowing the practice of over-sigining. I choose to give Buzz the benefit of the doubt and will chalk this up to communication issues. I don't really see an issue with over-signing if all parties know what they are getting into.
Yes - let's ask Buzz to re-evaluate his recruiting practices so we can return to the Mike Deane years - or even Tom Crean years where we have 4 talented players on a roster of 13 - but after that basically mid-major talent.
So you don't have an issue with oversigning if all parties know what they are getting into? And how do you know that the Newbill's side didn't know what they were getting into? Here - I'll answer why: Because you are choosing to believe the Newbill's side of the story, rather than Buzz's and MU's. If DJ lands at a High Major program..it will be evidence he has high major talent...if he lands in a mid-major..it will be evidence he has mid-major talent (at this present time.). We all know DJ was a strtech recruit..and we all know it seems plausible a year in prep school could help a tweener prospect like DJ. We all know that by NLI'ing DJ, other teams couldn't contact him while under NLI..and it would give MU the best chance at signing him out of prep school...
As I've said i don't like this recruiting practice, as it leaves the door open for the type of "misunderstanding"we have curently going on between the Newbills and Buzz...but I am not going to continue to cruciy and indict Buzz Williams over this matter..and dredge up the University of New Orleans (who are now a Division 3 program..because they couldn't fund the program to make it a Division 1 program)..which is why Buzz left in the first place...the fact you bring up that scenari is why I have a bullseye on you...you are going out of your way to grasp at straws to try to tear down teh guy who is on the verge of bringing your beloved MU basketball team to GREAT heights. Talk about a lack of gratitude.
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So you don't have an issue with oversigning if all parties know what they are getting into? And how do you know that the Newbill's side didn't know what they were getting into? Here - I'll answer why: Because you are choosing to believe the Newbill's side of the story, rather than Buzz's and MU's.
WOW!
Do you even read my posts?
I don't pretend to know what transpired between Buzz and DJ and I have never stated otherwise. What I do know is the DJ believes, wrongly perhaps, that Buzz did not make it clear that he was looking to replace him. So, as I said, I don't have a problem with the practice of over-signing if everyone involved knows the deal. Since DJ is claiming that he didn't know this was going on, I think that Buzz and MU should get together and figure out how to communicate their position to guys like DJ so they don't bash the program after they are asked to leave. If that still doesn't fix the issue and this happens again, then it may be time for MU to abandon the practice all together.
This is my last attempt to explain this to you. If you want to believe that my words above suggest some hidden anti-Buzz agenda, then go right ahead.
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WOW!
Do you even read my posts?
I don't pretend to know what transpired between Buzz and DJ and I have never stated otherwise. What I do know is the DJ believes, wrongly perhaps, that Buzz did not make it clear that he was looking to replace him. So, as I said, I don't have a problem with the practice of over-signing if everyone involved knows the deal. Since DJ is claiming that he didn't know this was going on, I think that Buzz and MU should get together and figure out how to communicate their position to guys like DJ so they don't bash the program after they are asked to leave. If that still doesn't fix the issue and this happens again, then it may be time for MU to abandon the practice all together.
This is my last attempt to explain this to you. If you want to believe that my words above suggest some hidden anti-Buzz agenda, then go right ahead.
As I mentioned I have read about your last 35 posts which all belabor the same point. And notice the bolded words above - they all indicate you are speculating...and my problem is that based on your SPECULATION, you continue to indict Buzz's character. You've just acknowledged you "don't pretend to know what transpired between Buzz and DJ," so why choose to speculate that Buzz was in the wrong on UNO, Maymon, Roseboro, and Newbill?
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so why choose to speculate that Buzz was in the wrong on UNO, Maymon, Roseboro, and Newbill?
I didn't.
Shades of grey dude.
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As I mentioned I have read about your last 35 posts which all belabor the same point. And notice the bolded words above - they all indicate you are speculating...
Interesting, because when I search my most recent posts, at about number 13 or so I find posts about Rob Frozena's nickname. I suggest baby's breath by the way, which is awesome.
Don't let the facts get in the way buddy. Keep on truckin'.
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Interesting, because when I search my most recent posts, at about number 13 or so I find posts about Rob Frozena's nickname. I suggest baby's breath by the way, which is awesome.
Don't let the facts get in the way buddy. Keep on truckin'.
Sorry for the oversight - let me clarify...in APPROXIMATELY 90% of your posts NOT pertaining to the nickname thead, you are belly aching over the "lack of effective communciation," by Buzz..and calling into question Buzz's character/credibility/modus operandi. Yet you are excited about seeing Vander Blue in an MU uniform. Hey guess what buddy - maybe Buzz did go after Maymon to help/increase our chances of landing Vander Blue. I just don't get why you are all over Buzz - he's probably in the top 10-20% of character guys in NCAA D-1 Basketball, he's done a great job recruiting, done a great job coaching, great job developing the players within the MU program personally and basketball-wise. We are LUCKY to have Buzz here...being a head coach at a high-major D-1 program (football or basketball), is a high-stakes, high-pressure, existence. Buzz isn't perfect, but he's damn near the Top of the list when it comes to College basketball coaches under 40. I get annoyed that some nitpick and want him to be the second coming of Jesus Christ..and when people jump to conclusions regarding situations they were not a part of. Just give it a rest, and stop judging and expecting perfection from people and situations you weren't a part of.
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Sorry for the oversight - let me clarify...in APPROXIMATELY 90% of your posts NOT pertaining to the nickname thead, you are belly aching over the "lack of effective communciation," by Buzz..and calling into question Buzz's character/credibility/modus operandi.
No problem, we all make mistakes. I'm not going to "crucify" you over it. ;)
I will stick with not explaining my points to you again because it is exauhsting and pointless. However, I will defend myself against your innacurate conclusion.
Yes, I have questioned Buzz's ability to effectively communicate his intentions with some recruits. This is accurate.
I have not questioned Buzz's character or credibility.
I did suggest that Buzz MAY need to change his MO in the future if recruits or those affiliated with them continue to cry foul.
I am excited to see this talented team on the court and I am hopeful that Buzz continues to bring MU success and pride.