Apologies if this was posted already.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/high_school/20100701_Newbill_cut_loose_by_Marquette.html (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/high_school/20100701_Newbill_cut_loose_by_Marquette.html)
Said Newbill: "I was mad and hurt when this first happened. Now I'll just go forth with my career somewhere else. Back to the drawing board. I'll have to be careful about what school I pick."
a couple more quotes from DJ are in the story.
Anything with Laws name is a version we have already heard
http://www.brewtownbeat.com/2010/06/is-buzz-williams-creating-bad-buzz.html
If he didn't bother to do the essay, how was he going to do in the classroom?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 08:21:29 AM
http://www.brewtownbeat.com/2010/06/is-buzz-williams-creating-bad-buzz.html
Congrats Chicos, you have proven that you are the most adept person on the board at finding meaningless blogs that no one reads.
I could pay $10 a month and start my own site and form my own opinion, but that doesn't make it worth or more important than the next guy's opinion.
Just stop, its embarassing.
Quote from: jhags15 on July 01, 2010, 08:20:16 AM
Anything with Laws name is a version we have already heard
Yes, but those are the first comments from DJ.
Very sad for the kid. Just not right
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 08:21:29 AM
http://www.brewtownbeat.com/2010/06/is-buzz-williams-creating-bad-buzz.html
Worthless article. That blogger was very uniformed...even for a blogger.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 08:27:05 AM
Yes, but those are the first comments from DJ.
Very sad for the kid. Just not right
The kid who, five months after announcing his commitment to Marquette, hadn't bothered to fill out an application or complete a required essay?
DJ hardly is blameless in this mess and, while I'm sure he's a good kid, his actions here hardly portend well for his ability to meet the demands, academic and otherwise, he would face at Marquette.
Remind me, Chico's, were you as morally outraged when Damian Saunders got dumped in late August?
The kid didn't even fill out an application. Did he think he was going to show up on the first day of classes and walk in? Something is not adding up.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2010, 08:37:49 AM
The kid who, five months after announcing his commitment to Marquette, hadn't bothered to fill out an application or complete a required essay?
DJ hardly is blameless in this mess and, while I'm sure he's a good kid, his actions here hardly portend well for his ability to meet the demands, academic and otherwise, he would face at Marquette.
Remind me, Chico's, were you as morally outraged when Damian Saunders got dumped in late August?
This is a complete spin job and red herring. Let's be real. The application did not hinder his acceptance. I don't defend Crean like Chicos does, but this really is sad. Buzz's "kids come first" mantra really seems to ring hollow. What a shame.
I still haven't seen anything in any of these articles that refutes IWBs account of events. The kid had a conditional offer and is upset the conditions didn't work out for him. If anything, I think the quotes indicate Newbill and his camp are taking it well and they're ready to move on at someplace like Drexel, LaSalle or Temple. If Newbill really had the rug pulled out from under him and had no clue this would happen, I would think they'd be much more upset about the whole thing.
Regardless, I still think Buzz screwed this up by letting him sign the NLI with a conditional offer. As we've seen here, the bad just far outweighs any good that can come from it. Communicating isn't what you tell people, it's what they hear. If Buzz and Newbill were on the same page with this, we wouldn't have all these stories coming out now.
Damiun Saunders got dumped because he was arrested. He was denied admission to MU based on that. NLI is not binding until a player is actually admitted.
Again, the sad news is that we will never know the complete story - but nontheless, we all have our opinions\
tho none of us know the facts. IWB's comments are as close as we are going to get to the facts. MU is not going to be divulging additional information - they cannot. So from MU's perspective, their tongues are tied - confidentiality etc. On th eother hand, the kid and handlers can say whatever they want (and some or all might be true).
What's also bad is some of us and all of our nemeses will take this to the bank that MU is bad, dirty, Buzz is a scroundrel. But, as with all things, this too will pass.
Quote from: marqfan22 on July 01, 2010, 08:25:11 AM
If he didn't bother to do the essay, how was he going to do in the classroom?
According to Newbill, he was told to take his time doing the essay by Monarch. This very easilly could be interpreted as "don't return it too promptly, otherwise we may have to honor the NLI."
Yuck.
Quote from: Daniel on July 01, 2010, 08:51:03 AM
IWB's comments are as close as we are going to get to the facts.
No...IWB's comments are as close as we are going to get to MU's side of the facts.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 08:53:24 AM
According to Newbill, he was told to take his time doing the essay by Monarch. This very easilly could be interpreted as "don't return it too promptly, otherwise we may have to honor the NLI."
Yuck.
To be honest, this is sort of what I believe as well.
"Take your time filling everything out, bring it with you the day that you start school."
Quote from: Litehouse on July 01, 2010, 08:48:15 AM
I still haven't seen anything in any of these articles that refutes IWBs account of events. The kid had a conditional offer and is upset the conditions didn't work out for him. If anything, I think the quotes indicate Newbill and his camp are taking it well and they're ready to move on at someplace like Drexel, LaSalle or Temple. If Newbill really had the rug pulled out from under him and had no clue this would happen, I would think they'd be much more upset about the whole thing.
Regardless, I still think Buzz screwed this up by letting him sign the NLI with a conditional offer. As we've seen here, the bad just far outweighs any good that can come from it. Communicating isn't what you tell people, it's what they hear. If Buzz and Newbill were on the same page with this, we wouldn't have all these stories coming out now.
I agree with both paragraphs.
I think that it is possible to read both sides of the story and conclude that they're saying a lot of things that are consistent. The one piece that doesn't seem to fit together is that the IWB version claims that DJ was told all along that there might not be a roster spot available in 2010-2011, and in at least one post Forster (I think) said that DJ said MU never mentioned prep school to him. I don't see how both of these can be true. I hope Forster shows DJ the info that IWB posted and asks directly: "Are you saying this is a lie?" Will he answer, "Yes, that's what I'm saying." Or will he say, "well, I thought.." If it's the former, we may never know the truth (because Buzz really can't say). If it's the latter, that would suggest to me that IWB's version is pretty close.
These are pretty fair articles, I think, to both Buzz and Newbill.
This is the very last thing Buzz can do, in my opinion, and put it in the category of things he had to do during his coaching transition. This is only year three and he is making up for an empty roster when he showed up. There is something to that. You are going to have to take a lot of players when the 2007 and 2008 classes are bare, mostly due to a coaching change. Crean had to do the same thing in Indiana to fill up a roster, but didn't have the luxury of NBA players like Buzz did so it was a tougher transition down there.
This is it for Buzz on getting second chances. Rookie coach mistakes, but he really needs to learn how he is coming across. Maybe he was not as clear to Newbill as he needed to be about the prep route and maybe he was not as clear to Maymon about running the offense for him as he needed to be.
Buzz can learn. All the players are his now, and he has basically had the chance to develop a team now. All the classes can have 2-4 players now, and Buzz does not have to take risks as much as he had to these past to years to fill up a roster.
This is the other key part in the article from DJ...
"I hadn't talked with them in a long time," Newbill said. "Just once or twice since I signed. Then coach Monarch called me maybe 2 weeks ago, talking about the essay and telling me to make sure I took my time to do it right, because it was going to be important. It was going to be why I wanted to go there. How I'd better myself. That kind of stuff.
The fact that DJ says he only heard from MU once or twice since he signed. I believe it's been nearly 5 months. That in my opinion further supports what IWB said. Hasn't Buzz said that he talks to his players/recruits several times a week?
Quote from: bilsu on July 01, 2010, 08:49:03 AM
Damiun Saunders got dumped because he was arrested. He was denied admission to MU based on that. NLI is not binding until a player is actually admitted.
No, he wasn't. He was denied admission because, at the last minute, someone decided his grades weren'tr up to snuff. Apparently no one was aware of his grades until late August when MU was in a pinch with not enough scholies for kids who had committed.
Merely a coincidence, no doubt.
"It really didn't," Crean said when asked if Saunders' arrest played any role in his not being admitted to MU. "I was unhappy with it, and I was probably even more unhappy because we were blindsided by it.
"I never really felt, after hearing the different facts in the story, that he really did anything that wrong, except choose to be with the wrong people at the wrong place at the wrong time. To my knowledge, it's already been taken care of. This was totally an academic issue."http://www.insidewisconsinsports.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=All+Modules&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=63AF775CA3C542DA934155D08C37692C
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 08:53:24 AM
According to Newbill, he was told to take his time doing the essay to make sure I took my time to do [the essay] right, because it was going to be important
This very easilly could be interpreted as "don't return it too promptly, otherwise we may have to honor the NLI."
Yuck.
If you're going to refer to the article, be sure to get it right. Your reference sounds much worse than what DJ actually said. I don't think Monarch telling DJ to make sure to do a good job on the essay should necessarily be interpreted as a "yuck" inducing comment.
I do think it's interesting that Monarch told DJ that the essay was going to be important.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 01, 2010, 09:48:00 AM
I do think it's interesting that Monarch told DJ that the essay was going to be important.
Ya really. I mean, you want the kids to do a good job, but those essays can't mean much. Especially for the basketball players. If you have the test scores and GPA, just turn in something with basically no typos. There is not much an 17 or 18 year old kid can really say in an essay. For the general admissions, I highly doubt they give much weight to them if you have a strong GPA and ACT, aside from the few toss-up admissions they get.
Quote from: muvanwilder on July 01, 2010, 09:35:03 AM
The fact that DJ says he only heard from MU once or twice since he signed. I believe it's been nearly 5 months. That in my opinion further supports what IWB said. Hasn't Buzz said that he talks to his players/recruits several times a week?
5 months since he committed, almost 3 since he signed. IIRC, coaches are allowed unlimited contact with signed players.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 01, 2010, 09:48:00 AM
If you're going to refer to the article, be sure to get it right. Your reference sounds much worse than what DJ actually said. I don't think Monarch telling DJ to make sure to do a good job on the essay should necessarily be interpreted as a "yuck" inducing comment.
I said "his was told to take his time doing the essay." The quote was "make sure I took my time to do the essay."
How are those in any way different???
Doesn't anyone think there are more characters involved here? Its sad the DJ was at the center of it, but isn't one of his coaches the advisor for a highly ranked 2011 recruit? It is very plausible that this deal was done, full well knowing DJ was probably going prep (maybe not to DJ exactly, but to his advisor), for the opportunity that the next player may put MU in his top 5. I'm sure someone related is involved with Rakeem Christmas as well.
I mean...according to this link he's the 30th ranked recruit is Southeastern PA! Where does that put him nationally? Top 500? There is more to this deal then we just offered this kid as a backup plan.
http://prizerecruits.com/profiles/blogs/top-100-basketball-recruits-in
Quote from: MUCam on July 01, 2010, 08:43:31 AM
This is a complete spin job and red herring. Let's be real. The application did not hinder his acceptance. I don't defend Crean like Chicos does, but this really is sad. Buzz's "kids come first" mantra really seems to ring hollow. What a shame.
Wait ... what? Marquette is in the habit of enrolling kids without them filling out applications and related requirements? News to me, though perhaps I'm not as tied in to the school's admission department as you. Apparently I wasted a lot of time during my senior year of high school.
Look, as I said in another thread, if this were Vander Blue who hadn't met his application requirements, you could bet someone on MU's staff would go to him in person and see that it gets done. DJ Newbill is not Vander Blue, obviously.
That said, I have a hard time generating too much sympathy for a kid who claims MU is his dream school, but couldn't find the time to fill out his application, even after - according to his own version of events - the coaching staff reminded him of it.
Is the lack of application why Newbill isn't coming to Marquette? Almost certainly not. Jamil Wilson's availability is why Newbill isn't coming to Marquette. But the circumstances of the application along with several other things we know at this point would seem to bolster IWB's account that DJ Newbill was not blindsided or unaware that this was a possibility.
If DJ was made aware of this situation the whole time, which it seems like he was, then hey that's his fault for trying to make orange juice out of lemons.
You can't fault Buzz for telling a kid hey, you can have this but just so you know, you are the last recruit and if someone comes along bigger we will give your scholly to him. You still wanna sign?
Buzz was more than honest, and DJ wanted to play for a guy like that.
Didn't work out, good luck DJ
Welcome Jamil.....Is anyone else giddy about seeing him play with our new revamped team?
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2010, 09:40:54 AM
No, he wasn't. He was denied admission because, at the last minute, someone decided his grades weren'tr up to snuff. Apparently no one was aware of his grades until late August when MU was in a pinch with not enough scholies for kids who had committed.
Merely a coincidence, no doubt.
"It really didn't," Crean said when asked if Saunders' arrest played any role in his not being admitted to MU. "I was unhappy with it, and I was probably even more unhappy because we were blindsided by it.
"I never really felt, after hearing the different facts in the story, that he really did anything that wrong, except choose to be with the wrong people at the wrong place at the wrong time. To my knowledge, it's already been taken care of. This was totally an academic issue."
http://www.insidewisconsinsports.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=All+Modules&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=63AF775CA3C542DA934155D08C37692C
Well then...apparently Buzz Williams isn't quite the trail blazer to the seedy underbelly of college basketball many here seem to want to believe he is. Seems MU has been in the business of doing things "this way" for a while now.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 09:54:57 AM
I said "his was told to take his time doing the essay." The quote was "make sure I took my time to do the essay right."
How are those in any way different???
I'm not trying to be nit-picky, but I see a real difference between "take your time" and "take your time to do it right."
In my opinion -- and your opinion certainly may differ -- the first of those means "this is not time sensitive" and the second means "get this right." That's how I would interpret this if it came from my boss, and that's how I'd want the people who work for me to interpret it if I said that.
As I said, you may disagree.
Couple things I still don't get.
With classes starting next week, wouldn't you think DJ would have been signed up by now, or at least wondering how/why he wasn't signing up for his classes yet?
Also, what if the DJ camp had refused to sign the release letter (if philly coach's story if true), what would have happened then?
Just a very strange story to say the least.
Quote from: Curtis Loew on July 01, 2010, 10:15:58 AM
Also, what if the DJ camp had refused to sign the release letter (if philly coach's story if true), what would have happened then?
The NLI is contingent on the player being accepted at the school. No application, no acceptance, so MU is off the hook and DJ refusing to sign really only hurts himself by limiting his options.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on July 01, 2010, 09:54:43 AM
5 months since he committed, almost 3 since he signed. IIRC, coaches are allowed unlimited contact with signed players.
Good catch, my bad. Still, isn't it strange they only contacted him once or twice in the 3 month span since he signed? Seems to me both parties knew about the situation when he signed. I can't imagine we had that little communication with Vander or J Jones.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 01, 2010, 09:26:08 AM
This is it for Buzz on getting second chances. Rookie coach mistakes, but he really needs to learn how he is coming across. Maybe he was not as clear to Newbill as he needed to be about the prep route and maybe he was not as clear to Maymon about running the offense for him as he needed to be.
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. Buzz has got to grow and learn as anyone would in his situation but this is a blackeye from the perspective that we'll never really know what happened. It leaves a bad taste in a lot of our mouths and we are diehard MU fans. Even if Buzz conditionally offered the scholarship to Newbill, he should've been smart enough to see how this could play out from a PR perspective. I don't think any of us are D1 college basketball coaches and we could certainly see it was a bad decision.
In addition, if this is the worst case scenario and we did just cut Newbill loose without warning, then Buzz better start producing better results on the court very quickly. If we want to look at things from the perspective of a Kentucky and the "winning trumps all" mentality, then I want to see us produce at that level. Buzz is a very good coach and recruiter but I haven't seen enough from him to justify these actions. It's hard to sell your soul for 1st and 2nd round losses in the NCAA tournament.
At the end of the day, I'm still confused to who Buzz Williams is as a person and I'm not sure I like the answer I'm getting right now when I try to look at things objectively. Is he the great person who is looking to do whatever it takes to make his players "men" on and off the court? Or is he your run-of-the-mill cut throat coach looking out for himself? Take either perspective from the 2 sides we've heard of this story and here are your options:
1) Buzz was honest and upfront with D.J. but was not able to see the potential backlash in his scholarship offer.
2) Buzz screwed the kid over to have a better team on paper.
Either way, Buzz is not without fault and I'd expect more from someone who represents MU in such a high profile position and makes 6-7 figures.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 01, 2010, 10:04:16 AM
Well then...apparently Buzz Williams isn't quite the trail blazer to the seedy underbelly of college basketball many here seem to want to believe he is. Seems MU has been in the business of doing things "this way" for a while now.
That doesn't make it acceptable.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 01, 2010, 09:26:08 AM
This is it for Buzz on getting second chances. Rookie coach mistakes, but he really needs to learn how he is coming across. Maybe he was not as clear to Newbill as he needed to be about the prep route and maybe he was not as clear to Maymon about running the offense for him as he needed to be.
Really?!?!?!? Both of the situations you cite are based on comments by a wannabe coach who was not involved with the kid's recruitment, and was fired because he was too successful, and a certifiable nut in Tim Maymon.
Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Reaching that conclusion necessarily requires that you accept those guys' versions of things, and completely discount Buzz/MU's version of things (via IWB). Why would you do that?
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on July 01, 2010, 10:00:39 AM
Doesn't anyone think there are more characters involved here? Its sad the DJ was at the center of it, but isn't one of his coaches the advisor for a highly ranked 2011 recruit? It is very plausible that this deal was done, full well knowing DJ was probably going prep (maybe not to DJ exactly, but to his advisor), for the opportunity that the next player may put MU in his top 5. I'm sure someone related is involved with Rakeem Christmas as well.
I mean...according to this link he's the 30th ranked recruit is Southeastern PA! Where does that put him nationally? Top 500? There is more to this deal then we just offered this kid as a backup plan.
http://prizerecruits.com/profiles/blogs/top-100-basketball-recruits-in
I think this is worth bumping- as I suggested there is more going on here. Why would buzz feel the need to accept a ccontingent nli? Lots of reasons, asu coach, hs coach, advisoers- other contacs in the area. Maybe a chance to get in on a kid next year? Would I be wrong to suggest if this wasn't a kid with ties to powers that be in big city bball buzz wouldn't have accepted nli? Who knows, maybe we are now out of the running on some of these prospects. Just speculation here- but I think people need to look further.
So many things about this things said by this kid or this philly coach just do not make sense
It reminds me of that story about the kid out west who had a major div 1 scholarship (for football, I believe) and his school held a pep rally. The coach said he was never contacted by the college and other things just didn't seem to ring true. Eventually it came out the kid's scholarship offer was a total fabrication.
Obviously that's not what happened here, but sometimes you read the story and the fact patterns do not just add up.
Didn't know about the ProAm League
Not on campus yet
No application on file
Little Contact
At this point, wouldn't he contact the school to find out his schedule, determine when he would need to arrive on campus, and make travel arrangements? It's not like he was standing there with his bags packed. His words may say he thought he was definitely coming to school here, but his actions and inactions say he was not
As to the he said, she said issue . . . after years of managing a group of professionals, even adults hear things the way they want to hear them. If you lead this project and complete these tasks, you will be promoted becomes you will be promoted. If someone leaves your staff, they are pretty much free to say whatever they want . . . I was promised a promotion and it never came through . . when in fact, they were promised a promotion based on taking on additional responsibilities. They can say almost anything, while you can say nothing.
Another aspect of this that needs exploring is this-
If things did in fact go down as IWB said, does anyone really expect DJ, or his camp to say "Yeah, I knew the situation. I took a gamble and it didn't work out."
Hell no. That's not a story. That's not gonna keep his name out there.
My point is that things could have gone down either way, and the quotes would be the same.
Quote from: Muhoops85 on July 01, 2010, 10:45:16 AM
So many things about this things said by this kid or this philly coach just do not make sense
It reminds me of that story about the kid out west who had a major div 1 scholarship (for football, I believe) and his school held a pep rally. The coach said he was never contacted by the college and other things just didn't seem to ring true. Eventually it came out the kid's scholarship offer was a total fabrication.
Obviously that's not what happened here, but sometimes you read the story and the fact patterns do not just add up.
Didn't know about the ProAm League
Not on campus yet
No application on file
Little Contact
I thought of exactly the same thing.
Quote from: MUfan12 on July 01, 2010, 10:54:52 AM
Another aspect of this that needs exploring is this-
If things did in fact go down as IWB said, does anyone really expect DJ, or his camp to say "Yeah, I knew the situation. I took a gamble and it didn't work out."
Hell no. That's not a story. That's not gonna keep his name out there.
My point is that things could have gone down either way, and the quotes would be the same.
You're absolutely right about this but Buzz and staff should have seen it coming if the situation was going to play out as it did. Buzz does not deserve a pass on this regardless of how it happened and what his intentions were.
Quote from: MU7703 on July 01, 2010, 10:58:49 AM
You're absolutely right about this but Buzz and staff should have seen it coming if the situation was going to play out as it did. Buzz does not deserve a pass on this regardless of how it happened and what his intentions were.
Agreed. It was a poor way to conduct business, and hopefully it won't happen again.
That said, a poor way to conduct is business is not the same as an unethical/immoral way to conduct business, as some here are claiming occurred here.
I'd rather have a coach that makes some occasional PR mistakes but recruits like a bat out of hell and maximizes the talent on the court than a coach that is a PR maestro but a hit or miss recruiter and a questionable game coach.
There is nothing unethical with what transpired. There are some hurt feelings, but they will blow over and life will move on. Marquette is a better basketball team because of this, and the only people who will even remember what transpired in a month are Badger message board losers. If you can't handle a Badger message board loser needling you, you have a sad life.
I thought Brad Forster was going to have the exclusive?
Quote from: GOMU1104 on July 01, 2010, 11:19:25 AM
I thought Brad Forster was going to have the exclusive?
He stated it was coming on Friday.
The more I think of this Brad Forster exclusive, the more I think it's a bad idea. I just don't see how any good can come from this on either side. Going straight to the media with problems certainly isn't going to help DJ in the eyes of potential schools, like Drexel, LaSalle or Temple. Other schools won't want their dirty laundry aired in public either if the situation ever arises. If DJ and his people want to talk about this publicly, they should at least wait until he has something else lined up. It certainly won't help MU, even if he acknowledges IWB's version of the story, having a kid sign a conditional NLI still doesn't look good. The only thing it helps are people like Badger fans that want more ammunition to take a shots MU.
Quote from: Litehouse on July 01, 2010, 11:39:19 AM
The more I think of this Brad Forster exclusive, the more I think it's a bad idea. I just don't see how any good can come from this on either side. Going straight to the media with problems certainly isn't going to help DJ in the eyes of potential schools, like Drexel, LaSalle or Temple. Other schools won't want their dirty laundry aired in public either if the situation ever arises. If DJ and his people want to talk about this publicly, they should at least wait until he has something else lined up. It certainly won't help MU, even if he acknowledges IWB's version of the story, having a kid sign a conditional NLI still doesn't look good. The only thing it helps are people like Badger fans that want more ammunition to take a shots MU.
Ding ding ding ding ding. Tell 'em what he has won.
Quote from: marqfan22 on July 01, 2010, 08:25:11 AM
If he didn't bother to do the essay, how was he going to do in the classroom?
Did you even go to college? I don't think I ever finished an essay more than 4 hours before it was due and I was an honor student at Marquette. I'm sure if a teacher told you to take your time and work hard on it, you would turn it in the next day not even knowing when its due. He's an 18 year old kid, are you really surprised he would fill out the app and wait for the essay at the last minute?
"I hadn't talked with them in a long time," Newbill said. "Just once or twice since I signed. Then coach Monarch called me maybe 2 weeks ago, talking about the essay and telling me to make sure I took my time to do it right, because it was going to be important. It was going to be why I wanted to go there. How I'd better myself. That kind of stuff.
"I talked to him again [Tuesday]. He didn't say anything about [cutting ties]. That came later when he talked to Stan."This also looks bad if Buzz really wasn't the one to call.
I also fear DJ could embarass himself with this "exclusive interview". People just have a tendency to say foolish things when a microphone is in their face. It happens all the time with pro athletes, celebrities, politicians, and business leaders, and those people are formally prepared for those types of situations. DJ is still just a high school kid and he probably hasn't dealt with much notariety in his recruitment until now. He's not going to look like a well-polished PR man in this interview, and it could possibly cover some uncomfortable subject matter. Throw an amateur interviewer into the mix, and this ain't exactly gonna be 60 Minutes.
I don't know what his advisers are telling him, but DJ needs to keep his head down and find a school first before he gets involved with this kind of stuff. This is going straight to the Internet for everyone to see, warts and all.
Quote from: MUfan12 on July 01, 2010, 10:54:52 AM
Another aspect of this that needs exploring is this-
If things did in fact go down as IWB said, does anyone really expect DJ, or his camp to say "Yeah, I knew the situation. I took a gamble and it didn't work out."
Hell no. That's not a story. That's not gonna keep his name out there.
My point is that things could have gone down either way, and the quotes would be the same.
I'm torn on this one.
I see how/why MU could potentially use IWB as their voice (not saying that is what is happening, just saying I see how that could work).
I'm not sure I see how the coach and DJ saying this stuff "helps" them. I understand it keeps his name out there, but this isn't hollywood. Another school is going to sign him because they think he can play, not because his name is in the paper.
For the record, I have no idea who/what to believe, but it's pretty obvious that both sides are attempting to present themselves in the best light possible. The truth is most likely in the middle.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 01, 2010, 10:36:43 AM
Really?!?!?!? Both of the situations you cite are based on comments by a wannabe coach who was not involved with the kid's recruitment, and was fired because he was too successful, and a certifiable nut in Tim Maymon.
Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Reaching that conclusion necessarily requires that you accept those guys' versions of things, and completely discount Buzz/MU's version of things (via IWB). Why would you do that?
It's not necessarily about taking sides.
At best, Buzz and staff are not communicating "their side" effectively enough. This makes at least three different parties that feel like they were mislead or lied to by the MU staff. That is a problem.
Generally one can explain away one bad marriage. But multiple bad marriages, you need to look in the mirror.
I am just not understanding why you dump 2 kids even before first day of official practice starts. What happened to the theory of developing kids?
Quote from: MUSF on July 01, 2010, 02:05:49 PM
It's not necessarily about taking sides.
At best, Buzz and staff are not communicating "their side" effectively enough. This makes at least three different parties that feel like they were mislead or lied to by the MU staff. That is a problem.
The odds are quite high against the possibility of Buzz or the MU AD making any comments on the situation. Just not going to happen. Lets move on as no one here has the facts nor will we. Is it Octobeer yet?
Quote from: Nukem2 on July 01, 2010, 02:17:57 PM
The odds are quite high against the possibility of Buzz or the MU AD making any comments on the situation. Just not going to happen. Lets move on as no one here has the facts nor will we. Is it Octobeer yet?
I wasn't saying that MU should be explaining their side better to us. I'm saying that they should have done a better job of explaining their side to the Newbill camp. Maybe that would have prevented this from spinning wildly out of control.
"I am just not understanding why you dump 2 kids even before first day of official practice starts..."
This "dumping" of Roseboro is getting old. Why in the world would a coach who is already short of players, in danger of not being able to practice 5 on 5, send a player packing at the start of school? You can't get another player to replace him. You could always push him out at the end of the year if you're so convinced he was pushed out. You would get a practice player for the year, and who knows, maybe he would develop during the year to the point where maybe you want to keep him.
What is the advantage of the coach to send him packing at that time??? Unless he was going to be a team cancer, this was only going to help Roseboro. BTW - I am not implying that he should have been recruited to begin with.
Quote from: PE8983 on July 01, 2010, 02:40:04 PM
"IThis "dumping" of Roseboro is getting old. Why in the world would a coach who is already short of players, in danger of not being able to practice 5 on 5, send a player packing at the start of school?
He just shaved $40,000 from the budget
But seriously, do you not think Buzz had the old "heart to heart" with Roseboro, informing him playing time would be zero? Doing this even before day one of practice? Why would he even have this conversation?Honor your d@mn committments.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on July 01, 2010, 02:53:50 PM
He just shaved $40,000 from the budget
But seriously, do you not think Buzz had the old "heart to heart" with Roseboro, informing him playing time would be zero? Doing this even before day one of practice? Why would he even have this conversation?Honor your d@mn committments.
How do you know what conversation he had with Roseboro? Maybe he told the kid that they had overestimated his ability and although they would honor the schollie, his playing time would be minimal. Actually, the kindest thing you can do is to level with the player so that they know exactly what the situation is. With all the facts, perhaps Roseboro opted out so that he could find a situation more in line with his ability.
Quote from: ATWizJr on July 01, 2010, 03:00:46 PM
How do you know what conversation he had with Roseboro? Maybe he told the kid that they had overestimated his ability and although they would honor the schollie, his playing time would be minimal. Actually, the kindest thing you can do is to level with the player so that they know exactly what the situation is. With all the facts, perhaps Roseboro opted out so that he could find a situation more in line with his ability.
All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?
Quote from: MUSF on July 01, 2010, 02:21:04 PM
I wasn't saying that MU should be explaining their side better to us. I'm saying that they should have done a better job of explaining their side to the Newbill camp. Maybe that would have prevented this from spinning wildly out of control.
Perhaps the Newbill "camp" was not on the same page. In any event, its still all speculation whatever lack of communication, mis-understandings or whtever that took place. Lets all move on. Can't keep pondering the imponderable.
Quote from: Nukem2 on July 01, 2010, 03:10:30 PM
Perhaps the Newbill "camp" was not on the same page. In any event, its still all speculation whatever lack of communication, mis-understandings or whtever that took place. Lets all move on. Can't keep pondering the imponderable.
It's not "imponderable." Three instances of "lack of communication, mis-understandings or whatever that took place," in two years at the helm is an indicator of a problem. Now, that problem could be as simple as poor communication or it could be as bad as dishonesty. That, I won't speculate on because we don't have the facts, but don't tell us there's nothing to see here.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on July 01, 2010, 03:07:14 PM
All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?
I believe Roseboro had been in town and playing with his potential teammates when it became apparent that he was not BE material.
"He just shaved $40,000 from the budget"
Since you put this in teal, I assume you are being sarcastic. If you're not, why don't we just shut down the whole program and save ourselves a whole lot more. BTW - Buzz's job is to field the basketball team he can. It's not the university budget he's concerned about. Obviously, he had a sit down with Roseboro and probably told him he was not ever going to get much PT on his team.
But again, I ask - if Buzz wronged the kid, what's the advantage for Buzz to get him off the team at that point in time??? None, unless he was a cancer. Buzz errored in bringing him in.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on July 01, 2010, 03:07:14 PM
All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?
Roseboro was on campus playing with the team. There were plenty of reports from the scrimmages that he was in way over his head by that point. I remember Rosiak even had some posts on his blog about the open gyms and Roseboro being overmatched.
Quote from: PE8983 on July 01, 2010, 02:40:04 PM
"I am just not understanding why you dump 2 kids even before first day of official practice starts..."
This "dumping" of Roseboro is getting old. Why in the world would a coach who is already short of players, in danger of not being able to practice 5 on 5, send a player packing at the start of school? You can't get another player to replace him. You could always push him out at the end of the year if you're so convinced he was pushed out. You would get a practice player for the year, and who knows, maybe he would develop during the year to the point where maybe you want to keep him.
What is the advantage of the coach to send him packing at that time??? Unless he was going to be a team cancer, this was only going to help Roseboro. BTW - I am not implying that he should have been recruited to begin with.
This.
Fact of he matter is, Buzz did Roseboro a huge favor by letting him go/nudging him out when he did.
It's also fair to say he ultimately did the kid a disfavor by accepting a commitment.
But that mistake having been made, it quickly became apparent he was not, nor was he likely to become, a Big East player. That being the case, Buzz had two options:
1. Let Roseboro rot on the bench for a season, burn a year of eligibility, then transfer at the end of the year, after which he would have to sit for yet another season before he could actually play a game and have only three years left.
2. Let/encourage him to leave when he did, allowing the kid to hook onto a program and have the opportunity to play right away (and for four whole seasons) rather than ride the pines for two years.
Buzz chose the latter, even though it opened him up to far more criticism and ultimately could have hurt the team (certainly left the team shorthanded). But from the player's perspective, it was far better than the likely alternative.
Again, giving the kid a scholie was a mistake. The way he let him go was not, and ultimately benefited Roseboro far more than it benefited Marquette basketball.
So, please, no more crying for "The Beast."
As for this business about him being misled, give me a break. Part of every coach's recruiting pitch is to sell a kid on an opportunity to play. And, I'd venture to guess, they're all very sincere in making that pitch. Coaches, after all, don't recruit players whom they think will have a long and successful career as a bench warmer. If a coach didn't think a kid had a chance to play, the coach isn't recruiting that kid.
Of course, coaches make mistakes, and that's what happened with Roseboro. The same could be said for dozens of kids in dozens of programs every year.
Whiners need to suck it up. Not all is fair, nor all is known. Such is the rule of life except for the dream land of liberals
Quote from: Warhawk Warrior on July 01, 2010, 03:51:20 PM
Whiners need to suck it up. Not all is fair, nor all is known. Such is the rule of life except for the dream land of liberals
I'm far from a liberal, but I believe in honoring commitments. This isn't hard or complex. It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING, something both liberals and conservatives should both strive for.
In many of these cases the facts remain unpublished to protect the interests of the player. Grades, unethical behavior, lack of commitment are things that the universities typically don't divulge in order to not disrupt the kid's future chances at success. Saving face is important for both sides so the less that is acknowledged, the better.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:57:28 PM
I'm far from a liberal, but I believe in honoring commitments. This isn't hard or complex. It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING, something both liberals and conservatives should both strive for.
The problem with your DO THE RIGHT THING mantra is that if Newbill was a willing participant in this, than nothing WRONG was done.
It's not the best way of handling recruiting, and I'd like to never see it happen again. But there's nothing WRONG, unethical or immoral about it.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2010, 04:30:19 PM
The problem with your DO THE RIGHT THING mantra is that if Newbill was a willing participant in this, than nothing WRONG was done.
It's not the best way of handling recruiting, and I'd like to never see it happen again. But there's nothing WRONG, unethical or immoral about it.
I've highlighted the key here. I agree with you. I'm inclined to believe that Newbill
was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz. Others are inclined to believe that Newbill
was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 01, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
I've highlighted the key here. I agree with you. I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz. Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.
I'm in 100% agreement with that as well.
One of the Phillycoach quotes that really struck me was when he talked about when he was fired from Strawberry Mansion. He said, "The principal fired me because she was jealous of my success." This is the guy that is supposedly a mentor to DJ. I don't know much about what happened in that incident, but I think it had something to do with that game DJ scored 64 and they killed a team. Whatever the real reason, that kind of sounded like childish comment and blaming the other person for being let go. Now if DJ looks up to that or Laws is in his ear about how to handle this, it isn't surprising that he is kind of taking Buzz down with him so to speak. He got rejected and wants to make it seem like he was wronged in a way. Maybe he wants to save face with his peers and seem like he was wronged when really a better player came along and he knew it was a possibility in the contingency plan.
Also, why do an exclusive with this brad forster guy? He has an article basically about him by Goodman I believe. Why not go there with your story if you want the masses to hear it? That's a much bigger stage than Forster posting it here. I just think its his mentor and him wanting to stir up some drama and keep his name relevent and save some face so that other schools don't look down on him.
Edit: I was thinking of the Rivals article, not Goodman.
This Forster exclusive is going to be a train wreck. The fact the coach let it slip that DJ never sent in his application shows he doesn't have a good filter. That's the single most damning piece of evidence against DJ in this whole fiasco and it should have never been public info.
Quote from: groove on July 01, 2010, 08:38:10 AM
The kid didn't even fill out an application. Did he think he was going to show up on the first day of classes and walk in? Something is not adding up.
I've been off the board for a while and just walked into this "clean." I agree, something isn't right. Why didn't he fill out an app or do the essay? Sounds like red flags and then MU pulled the plug.
Good luck to the kid.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 01, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
I've highlighted the key here. I agree with you. I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz. Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.
It's more than being a willing participant or not. Willing participants can still be taken advantage of.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 08:54:18 AM
No...IWB's comments are as close as we are going to get to MU's side of the facts.
+1 IBW's function here is to be the "inside source" who can unofficially put out the story from the University's point of view since MU cannot itself put out an official statement going into that type of detail for PR (and confidentially?) reasons.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 01, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
I've highlighted the key here. I agree with you. I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz. Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.
I think IWB's version is highly probable, makes sense and unless there are some additional facts, not emotional reactions, the case is closed for me.
Quote from: MUSF on July 01, 2010, 03:22:14 PM
It's not "imponderable." Three instances of "lack of communication, mis-understandings or whatever that took place," in two years at the helm is an indicator of a problem. Now, that problem could be as simple as poor communication or it could be as bad as dishonesty. That, I won't speculate on because we don't have the facts, but don't tell us there's nothing to see here.
Why do you hate Buzz
Quote from: indeelaw90 on July 01, 2010, 03:07:14 PM
All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?
Why do you hate Buzz?
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2010, 04:30:19 PM
The problem with your DO THE RIGHT THING mantra is that if Newbill was a willing participant in this, than nothing WRONG was done.
It's not the best way of handling recruiting, and I'd like to never see it happen again. But there's nothing WRONG, unethical or immoral about it.
Well based on Newbill's reaction, I'd say he wasn't a willing participant. Based on his AAU coach's reaction, I'd say he wasn't a willing participant. Based on his high school coach's reaction, I'd say he wasn't a willing participant.....or, maybe, we just have a staff that communicates poorly to kids from Pennsylvania.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 09:19:20 PM
It's more than being a willing participant or not. Willing participants can still be taken advantage of.
So that's the standard now?
Well, crap, we might as well do away with major college athletics entirely.
Cause every single one of those kids is getting taken advantage of. Willingly.
A quote from the article:
"Laws was relieved of his coaching duties late in the season over a flap with the principal, Lois Powell Mondesire. He said his efforts thereafter to assure that school personnel would assist Newbill in dotting i's and crossing t's in preparation for Marquette were hindered by the lingering ill will."
And now its the fault of Newbill's HS principal because Laws got pissed off that the warmups she purchased for the team weren't classy enough and got fired over disssing them to the principals face.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 10:05:57 PM
Well based on Newbill's reaction, I'd say he wasn't a willing participant. Based on his AAU coach's reaction, I'd say he wasn't a willing participant. Based on his high school coach's reaction, I'd say he wasn't a willing participant.....or, maybe, we just have a staff that communicates poorly to kids from Pennsylvania.
I don't think it is unusual that Newbill would react and say he is/was upset about this - of course he was, as he was HOPEFUL he'd get to MU. We cannot dismiss 100% of what IWB shared/wrote regarding MU's position in the Newbill recruitment. I found it weird that just when it was being speculated that Newbill wasn't going to come to MU - back in late May - shortly after the Gardner signing..and then even after Mbao transferred - Buzz/Rosiak indicated someone was headed for prep school and that player knew who they were. At this same time on MUScoop..Golden Avalanche said Newbill was out..other people speculated the same..and it was at that time Philly Coach and Brad Forester appeared -almost in unison. Have we ever had another recruit's coach post here? Have any other MU alum filmed a kid we signed and uploaded that video to Scoop? It seems to me that Forester and Laws were trying to build up sentiment that Newbill was coming to campus for sure..and that in tthe event he didn't..a terrible travesty would have taken place...which could cause some outrage/create a PR nightmare for Buzz/MU..with the thinking being that maybe Buzz wouldn't risk a PR problem..and just let Newbill in. We both know that the Maymon's tried to back Buzz into a corner and force him to play JMay at the 2..and Buzz called their bluff and told him to transfer. Either way..I don't like this recruiting practice - and would hope Buzz doesn't engage in it again. But, I'm still a Buzz fan
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:57:28 PM
I'm far from a liberal, but I believe in honoring commitments. This isn't hard or complex. It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING, something both liberals and conservatives should both strive for.
There's plenty of doubt about what the actual facts are in this case. Until they are verified, I plan on giving the benefit of that doubt to Buzz and MU. Isn't that your plan as well?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:57:28 PM
It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING, something both liberals and conservatives should both strive for.
Yet liberals and conservatives often have quite divergent opinions on just what is "the right thing". ::)
Quote from: AZWarrior on July 01, 2010, 10:56:57 PM
Yet liberals and conservatives often have quite divergent opinions on just what is "the right thing". ::)
Very true, hopefully honoring a written commitment isn't one of those divergent opinions.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2010, 12:09:19 AM
Very true, hopefully honoring a written commitment isn't one of those divergent opinions.
A written committment is nothing more then a piece of paper, generally signed by two parties, it means nothing. In the world of lawyers it might mean something but thats about it.
The 'right things' only means that chicos agrees with you otherwise your misguided, a simpleton and obviously not intelligent.
New article on Philly.com now
http://m.philly.com/phillycom/pm_21406/contentdetail.htm;jsessionid=B0E2CEF0334DACB729BBA0E1D917CD1F?contentguid=PSBc9eMy
Quote from: LittleMurs on July 01, 2010, 10:13:27 PM
A quote from the article:
"Laws was relieved of his coaching duties late in the season over a flap with the principal, Lois Powell Mondesire. He said his efforts thereafter to assure that school personnel would assist Newbill in dotting i's and crossing t's in preparation for Marquette were hindered by the lingering ill will."
And now its the fault of Newbill's HS principal because Laws got pissed off that the warmups she purchased for the team weren't classy enough and got fired over disssing them to the principals face.
The article talked about Laws "who coached Newbill through most of the year."
MOST OF THE YEAR?
Well as a few posts alluded to, Laws - a
volunteer head coach - was dismissed.
Article here: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/high_school/20100224_Strawberry_Mansion_cuts_ties_with_volunteer_coach_Laws.html
From the article:
*"Laws said he was kept abreast of developments all day by Mansion teachers. He added that he received six total job offers from Pub coaches, junior college coaches and someone who wants him to direct a youth hoops program.
"I've had a lot of visitors at my house," Laws said. "Lots of crying is taking place over this. Grown men, too. Thirty, 40 years old. But I'll be OK."
Mansion still can earn a spot in the Class AA state playoffs with a consolation win over Prep Charter; details on that game TBA.
"The kids want to forfeit," Laws said. "We're going to meet about that. I have to convince them to go forward.
"It would be a fallacy to think that we lost that Franklin game because I wasn't there. But that definitely would explain the emotional drop. I'm tight with these kids."*
Lots of egos and personas involved here...
There's GOT to be more to the statements that are being released.
Unfortunately, I think the lawyers and advisers for both sides may not allow any info to be released.
Maybe there's something Nova knew - hence the non-heavy recruitment, though St. Joe's and Temple pushed hard.
Quote from: thatman32 on July 02, 2010, 12:25:53 AM
A written committment is nothing more then a piece of paper, generally signed by two parties, it means nothing. In the world of lawyers it might mean something but thats about it.
The 'right things' only means that chicos agrees with you otherwise your misguided, a simpleton and obviously not intelligent.
It means something to one of those parties, since it's binding on the students.
If that's your theory on contracts and contract law, remind me never to enter into any sort of agreement with you.