This is probably as close as we're going to get to hearing MU's side of the story.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=6085782
There is a lot of crap flying around in the air right now and it is time we clear the air, sound good? Yes, I am talking about DJ Newbill.
First off, I have met him, and there is no question that DJ Newbill is a great kid.
So.... here is the deal....
Not long after visiting MU last summer, DJ Newbill wanted to commit to MU. However, MU already had Vander Blue, Reggie Smith and Jamail Jones in the fold. DJ was told that they had needs at other positions, and that they had to continue to recruit other positions. Newbill wanted to commit anyway, knowing that there was a good chance that he may not end up at MU in 2010, and he commited.
Fast forward to the period leading up to signing day. Newbill knew the situation and approached MU about it. Newbill was told that the situation hasn't changed, and that it was likely the only way MU could take him, was if he went to a prep school for a year. Newbill understood, hoped things would work out earlier than prep school, and wanted to sign. MU accepted the signature.
Well - it is time for summer school to start, so things are being finalized. Newbill hoped things would change the outcome, but understood the situation all along.
He wants to go to MU, and deep down, he hoped things would change - but things did not change. He will likely head to prep school for a year, but MU gave him his release so, in case he decides to go to another school, he has that option. If he decides to - MU will help him with the process. If he decides to stay with the prep school route - MU will stay on him.
"Oh, IWB, but what about the coach that was posting on MU Scoop for the last two months?"
Well, first off, yes, that poster is a former coach of DJ Newbill's. However...... DJ Newbill had an advisor helping him with the recruiting process. That advisor dealt with the MU staff during the recruitment, and he knew the situation all along - he had discussions with DJ about the situation throughout the process.
The former coach that has been posting on message boards was not involved in the recruiting process. He was not involved when DJ committed, so he did not know the situation. He was not involved when DJ signed his NLI, so he did not know the entire situation.
He has been very vocal on the message boards about what MU did, said etc., when the truth is, he simply had not been involved with the process.
At the end of the day this is not about a coach and not about MU. It is about DJ Newbill, a great kid who has a lot of talent. Bottom line, DJ Newbill did not get the rug yanked out from underneath him, he knew the situation, hoped it would work itself out in his favor, but it did not. Either way, he doesn't deserve to be the focus of any message board firestorms.
Assuming that's accurate, it's in stark contrast from what has been posted and assumed by many. It also makes it seem like DJ is still good enough for Marquette, just not at this time, which is quite the opposite of what BradForster is saying.
It also sounds like our resident Newbill adviser might not be as close to the recruitment as advertised. Hope this is the true story and hope that Newbill finds his way onto the roster next year!
Quote from: Litehouse on June 30, 2010, 02:45:19 PM
This is probably as close as we're going to get to hearing MU's side of the story.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=6085782
I feel a whole lot better, especially with the PhillyCoach reference.
Good Luck DJ. Welcome home Jamil, nows lets do this.......
Buzz is a straight shooter and this sounds about right. Sometimes feelings get hurt when people are brutally honest, but it sounds like Buzz did nothing wrong here at all if he was that upfront with the person. Buzz said that the person going to prep school knew who he was and it sounds like it again was the case.
Hopefully Newbill has a great career and hopefully it is at MU.
I think that does clear up a lot of the air.
I do have a couple add'l questions:
1) If Buzz etc. knew that we had enough guards coming in, why would we give him an offer? My own guess, and I can't remember the chronology, is that we gave him an offer before Midnight Madness, maybe like last summer, before we knew Vander was coming to MU. We would still have a schollie open then.
2) The coinciding of this with the Wilson stuff is awfully odd. Did Buzz perhaps decide that with Wilson officially coming to MU, DJ had to either realize he was going to a prep school, then maybe MU, or nothing at all? The Wilson thing made the "DJ, you're going to Prep School" official? It will be interesting to see if this comes out.
Quote from: warrior07 on June 30, 2010, 02:59:12 PM
I think that does clear up a lot of the air.
I do have a couple add'l questions:
1) If Buzz etc. knew that we had enough guards coming in, why would we give him an offer? My own guess, and I can't remember the chronology, is that we gave him an offer before Midnight Madness, maybe like last summer, before we knew Vander was coming to MU. We would still have a schollie open then.
2) The coinciding of this with the Wilson stuff is awfully odd. Did Buzz perhaps decide that with Wilson officially coming to MU, DJ had to either realize he was going to a prep school, then maybe MU, or nothing at all? The Wilson thing made the "DJ, you're going to Prep School" official? It will be interesting to see if this comes out.
The offer was contingent as IWB points out, whtever the timing. As for the timing, well the next summer session starts next week.
Thanks for clearing everything up. Makes a lot more sense now - especially after reading postings by brad and phillycoach. I can now retain my faith in Buzz being a good representative of MU.
I have 100% faith in IWB's summary, and it's a relief to hear that this wasn't a dirty situation like it had appeared.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 30, 2010, 03:03:19 PM
The offer was contingent as IWB points out, whtever the timing. As for the timing, well the next summer session starts next week.
Yeah. My point/guess is just that with Wilson coming to MU, it was finally time for DJ to decide between going to prep school or looking elsewhere.
I think it's pretty clear now Newbill was thinking prep school all along. He suddenyl got an "offer" he couldn't turn down. If it didn't work out like he hoped it was back to the original plan of prep school. It probably hurts given how close he was to being at MU, but it's what he signed up for.
Quote from: warrior07 on June 30, 2010, 03:10:01 PM
Yeah. My point/guess is just that with Wilson coming to MU, it was finally time for DJ to decide between going to prep school or looking elsewhere.
DJ's offer was contingent on us NOT finding a big (ish) man. Wilson decided to come to MU. There's the contingency. DJ no longer has an offer. Not that hard to understand.
Everything really wrapped up nicely. Oooh, and much quicker than usual!
Quote from: CrazyEcho on June 30, 2010, 03:17:52 PM
DJ's offer was contingent on us NOT finding a big (ish) man. Wilson decided to come to MU. There's the contingency. DJ no longer has an offer. Not that hard to understand.
Actually, it sounds like the offer was even more tenuous than that. From what IWB said it sounds like even before Wilson decided to transfer that DJ was going to be the odd man out (i.e., the person that Buzz told us long ago was going to prep school) unless another scholarship opened up.
I honestly believe what IWB is reporting is what Buzz and Marquette intended with Newbill. Use him as Plan B if they didn't get any more transfers/recruits at the 3-4-5 spots. I also believe no one really communicated that plan to Newbill until yesterday. So once again the truth is a combination of Brad Forster's version and IWB's.
Quote from: Shack on June 30, 2010, 03:35:24 PM
I honestly believe what IWB is reporting is what Buzz and Marquette intended with Newbill. Use him as Plan B if they didn't get any more transfers/recruits at the 3-4-5 spots. I also believe no one really communicated that plan to Newbill until yesterday.
*cough*
QuoteDJ was told that they had needs at other positions, and that they had to continue to recruit other positions. Newbill wanted to commit anyway, knowing that there was a good chance that he may not end up at MU in 2010, and he commited.
Fast forward to the period leading up to signing day. Newbill knew the situation and approached MU about it. Newbill was told that the situation hasn't changed, and that it was likely the only way MU could take him, was if he went to a prep school for a year. Newbill understood, hoped things would work out earlier than prep school, and wanted to sign.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on June 30, 2010, 03:25:10 PM
Everything really wrapped up nicely. Oooh, and much quicker than usual!
Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it!
Quote from: Shack on June 30, 2010, 03:35:24 PM
I also believe no one really communicated that plan to Newbill until yesterday.
What would make you believe that?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 30, 2010, 03:37:07 PM
Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it!
12 minutes, people. I expect better from the rest of you next time.
So does this version sit well with Chicos?
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on June 30, 2010, 03:38:28 PM
12 minutes, people. I expect better from the rest of you next time.
I was working, otherwise it would have been much faster
"I also believe no one really communicated that plan to Newbill until yesterday."
If no one told him until yesterday, then why, as the Philly coach stated, had he never filled out an application or sent his transcripts?
Everyone involved, key word 'involved', knew the situation from the beginning.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 30, 2010, 03:39:14 PM
I was working, otherwise it would have been much faster
I'm just glad someone noticed.
I'm comfortable with this explanation but what are Philly coach and Brad Forster's thoughts on this version of the scenario?
Quote from: IWB on June 30, 2010, 03:41:17 PM
"I also believe no one really communicated that plan to Newbill until yesterday."
If no one told him until yesterday, then why, as the Philly coach stated, had he never filled out an application or sent his transcripts?
Everyone involved, key word 'involved', knew the situation from the beginning.
So basically you're saying Brad Forster is full of it. Which is fine, I'm just saying there are two sides of the story. You have the Marquette side and he has the Newbill side. The truth is in the middle. Also, is the coach he's mentioning the coach you mention that's been posting here for two months (Philly Coach) or a different one?
**Cut from another post from Forster**
These are the facts that have been presented to me from the Newbill side:
1) Scott Monarch phones Stan Laws today to ask about DJ's MU application.
2) Coach Laws informs Scott he will have DJ complete the application immediately.
3) Monarch responds by saying Buzz is no longer certain of DJ's commitment to the program and questions whether Newbill will be dependable considering the application has yet to be completed.
4) After probing Scott further to get past what Stan considered a convenient excuse for Marquette to release DJ, Monarch informs Stan that all along he's been the only coach on staff who believes DJ's skills are Big East caliber.
5) Scott tells Stan that Buzz has decided to go another direction and he needs DJ to sign a form requesting his release from Marquette. (Remember, DJ had already signed on the dotted line)
From what I have surmised, DJ may have been a bit late in completing the final application for official MU enrollment and the failure to submit the application was used as a way for the BB team to sever ties with him. DJ had asked Stan just a few weeks ago why his friends were receiving calls from representatives of their respective universities, but he had heard nothing from Marquette. In being presented the Newbill camp's side of the story it sure sounds like DJ was no longer in Marquette's plans, and after some additional probing by Stan Laws, Scott Monarch admitted as much. DJ's family is devastated and it's awfully late in the game to try and latch on somewhere else. It's highly disappointing that Buzz asked one of his assistant coaches to call Stan with the gut wrenching news and subsequently leave it to Stan to relay that news to DJ. Again, this is Coach Laws version of what transpired today.
Quote from: muarmy81 on June 30, 2010, 03:38:46 PM
So does this version sit well with Chicos?
It's not negative, so I'm guessing no.
Quote from: Shack on June 30, 2010, 03:45:59 PM
So basically you're saying Brad Forster is full of it. Which is fine, I'm just saying there are two sides of the story. You have the Marquette side and he has the Newbill side. The truth is in the middle. Also, is the coach he's mentioning the coach you mention that's been posting here for two months (Philly Coach) or a different one?
**Cut from another post from Forster**
These are the facts that have been presented to me from the Newbill side:
1) Scott Monarch phones Stan Laws today to ask about DJ's MU application.
2) Coach Laws informs Scott he will have DJ complete the application immediately.
3) Monarch responds by saying Buzz is no longer certain of DJ's commitment to the program and questions whether Newbill will be dependable considering the application has yet to be completed.
4) After probing Scott further to get past what Stan considered a convenient excuse for Marquette to release DJ, Monarch informs Stan that all along he's been the only coach on staff who believes DJ's skills are Big East caliber.
5) Scott tells Stan that Buzz has decided to go another direction and he needs DJ to sign a form requesting his release from Marquette. (Remember, DJ had already signed on the dotted line)
From what I have surmised, DJ may have been a bit late in completing the final application for official MU enrollment and the failure to submit the application was used as a way for the BB team to sever ties with him. DJ had asked Stan just a few weeks ago why his friends were receiving calls from representatives of their respective universities, but he had heard nothing from Marquette. In being presented the Newbill camp's side of the story it sure sounds like DJ was no longer in Marquette's plans, and after some additional probing by Stan Laws, Scott Monarch admitted as much. DJ's family is devastated and it's awfully late in the game to try and latch on somewhere else. It's highly disappointing that Buzz asked one of his assistant coaches to call Stan with the gut wrenching news and subsequently leave it to Stan to relay that news to DJ. Again, this is Coach Laws version of what transpired today.
No, he's not saying Brad Forster is full of it. He's saying Brad's source is not fully apprised of the facts.
I think he's saying PhillyCoach/Coach Laws hasn't been fully involved in everything and may not have known the whole situation and may not necesarily represent the DJ side of the story.
Absolutely correct.
Is Philly Coach and Coach Laws the same guy?
I just don't understand why we would accept a NLI from him if the plan was never to actually have him on the team this year. That to me still doesn't make sense. Nothing good can come of that. If a guard spot opens up, cool, you sign him at that point. If not, cool, nothing was ever in writing, so you just keep recruiting the kid when he goes to prep school. Unless Buzz was trying to keep him from signing with another BE school. But that is purely speculative.
IWB's story on DJ is logical, especially given the fact that we were told loudly and often by those in the know (including Buzz) that he was not done recruiting and that it was likely that one of our signees was headed to prep school. It was also widely reported that the recruit had known the score from the jump but had elected to sign with MU anyway. Don't know how Buzz could have been more transparent with DJ or the MU fanbase on this matter.
Will our neighbors to the west or even all of our own fans accept this "evidence" as consistent with what Buzz and the program have been reporting all along? If they're fair, logical and have been listening all along, yes. If not, who cares?
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on June 30, 2010, 04:02:59 PM
I just don't understand why we would accept a NLI from him if the plan was never to actually have him on the team this year. That to me still doesn't make sense. Nothing good can come of that. If a guard spot opens up, cool, you sign him at that point. If not, cool, nothing was ever in writing, so you just keep recruiting the kid when he goes to prep school. Unless Buzz was trying to keep him from signing with another BE school. But that is purely speculative.
The NLI was contingent upon nothing else happening that would help to balance the roster position-wise. Well that happened with wilson and DJ goes to Plan B.
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 30, 2010, 04:09:23 PM
The NLI was contingent upon nothing else happening that would help to balance the roster position-wise. Well that happened with wilson and DJ goes to Plan B.
That's not what IWB said:
"Not long after visiting MU last summer, DJ Newbill wanted to commit to MU. However, MU already had Vander Blue, Reggie Smith and Jamail Jones in the fold. DJ was told that they had needs at other positions, and that they had to continue to recruit other positions. Newbill wanted to commit anyway, knowing that there was a good chance that he may not end up at MU in 2010, and he commited.
Fast forward to the period leading up to signing day. Newbill knew the situation and approached MU about it. Newbill was told that the situation hasn't changed, and that it was likely the only way MU could take him, was if he went to a prep school for a year. Newbill understood, hoped things would work out earlier than prep school, and wanted to sign. MU accepted the signature."
Based on this, what is supposedly a direct-from-the-horse's-mouth rundown of what transpired, we never intended on keeping Newbill on teh roster. When we aaccepted the NLI, we told him he was going to prep school.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 30, 2010, 04:09:23 PM
The NLI was contingent upon nothing else happening that would help to balance the roster position-wise. Well that happened with wilson and DJ goes to Plan B.
Regardless, it's a poor way to go about recruiting and hopefully no longer will occur. It seems to me the potenial for negative consequences far outweigh the potential benefits of stashing away a borderline Big East player as a backup plan to your backup plan.
Hopefully everyone has learned from this and won't make this mistake again.
Note: Not saying Buzz did anything inappropriate or immoral here, just that it seems a practice that has far more downside than upside.
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
Will this be an unbiased exclusive?
So in summary, is this a correct statement.
DJ Newbill signed to play with Marquette, signed a NLI, always knowing in the background that he may never step foot on campus if another player came a long and would be cut? He did this because......because he wanted so badly to play for Marquette that he was willing to take that risk rather than sign a NLI with any number of other schools where this risk didn't exist?
Do I have this correct, because that's what it seems like people are saying.
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
Wow, two in one day!
(http://dgt1.net/manny/mblog/images/cliffhanger_remake.jpg)
All this for a player that will be a 2011 third string small forward behind Blue and Jones.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 30, 2010, 04:28:40 PM
So in summary, is this a correct statement.
DJ Newbill signed to play with Marquette, signed a NLI, always knowing in the background that he may never step foot on campus if another player came a long and would be cut? He did this because......because he wanted so badly to play for Marquette that he was willing to take that risk rather than sign a NLI with any number of other schools where this risk didn't exist?
Do I have this correct, because that's what it seems like people are saying.
For someone who doesn't evaluate coaches until after 5 years, you certainly do seem to have your mind made up about this situation, don't you? Why am I not surprised? Perhaps if Buzz put out some bush league, weak sauce tweets, you might be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not crazy about this whole thing going down, but it sure sounds like DJ has known for a while that he wasn't going to be at MU (no ProAm, no application filled out). I guess I would rather have a roster of 12 than go thru this often.
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
I don't know if it's laughable, but it certainly doesn't close all the holes, that's for sure. If this kid comes out and refutes it or his family \ coaches do, then what? Of course, I'm sure MU is going to "help" him with the notion that he keeps his mouth shut.
This whole thing is beyond strange and if it went down with any other school, we would all be calling B.S.
Did he ever have any major offers other than ours? Was WV a real offer, or just another if we don't get the first 20 guys were after offers? That would be the only way it would make sense. Its take a risk on us or go to the Patriot league/DII/etc..
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on June 30, 2010, 04:34:59 PM
Did he ever have any major offers other than ours? Was WV a real offer, or just another if we don't get the first 20 guys were after offers? That would be the only way it would make sense. Its take a risk on us or go to the Patriot league/DII/etc..
+1
1. phillycoach being more removed from DJ's recruiting situation than he let on makes his reaction to the news today 100% logical. He was likely as blindsided as any of us (although likely not Newbill)
2. MU appeared to be feverishly recruiting until around the time Kent was fired at Oregon, which is likely when it became clear that Jamil was transferring out of there. Since that time, we stopped taking 2010 visits. This could help to explain why we apparently cooled on Noreen, and why he chose WVU out of the blue.
3. Nothing about Buzz makes me think he would simply cast aside a recruit out into the cold for a better player. Im not saying hes a saint, just not scum like many have been insinuating.
4. IWB and others have been hinting at coming "good news" for weeks. It appears this was it.
5. Buzz previously stated that one of our recruits would go to prep school. It appears this is more true now than ever, unless DJ chooses to try for another school.
6. The timing of these events may have looked fishy at first, but it is clear this was a possibility all along. I feel bad that DJ got so close, but it seems he knew this was a possibility.
7. IWB has proven to be nothing but reliable in the limited time I have been following this site, while brad forster seems oddly connected to the Newbill camp. Im not sayin, I'm just sayin...
8. The lack of a completed application, lack of knowledge about the summer league etc. show DJ had a bit of a disconnect from the program that leads me to believe he knew this could be coming.
All these lead me to believe that IWB's side of the story is at least pretty close to the truth. I will say, I am greatly relieved at this.
Best of luck to DJ and Jamil.
"Coach Monarch is a great guy. He is really cool, and like Buzz Williams, he's real. They keep it real, they doesn't tell you what you want to hear, they tell you what you need to hear. I really think coach Williams has the best intentions in helping kids out, in helping them to develop."
-- DJ Newbill
Either Buzz is a big time snake, or the contention that MU was upfront with this kid all along seems rather legit, even if this situation didn't work out the way DJ had hoped.
forgot one..
9. DJ's genuine enthusiasm for the MU program illustrates why he might have been willing to accept this contingency deal.
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
Sorry Brad. You made a nice video, but I can guarantee that IWB is more connected to the program than you will ever be.
Also, you say "tune in" like you're a reporter. If that's the case, your credibility as a "reporter" takes a MAJOR hit. From what you've written, you are far too emotionally invested into this kid to give any sort of unbiased account.
Yawn. IWB has credibility. This Forster dude has zip!
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
The only believable reporting will be if you get a videotaped interview with DJ. Then again, that would be his story, but it would make for a good discussion. DJ would have have no reason to be less than completely honest.
Quote from: reinko on June 30, 2010, 04:30:47 PM
Wow, two in one day!
(http://dgt1.net/manny/mblog/images/cliffhanger_remake.jpg)
Wouldn't it be three? That poor cell phone was hanging off the cliffs of those Paraguayan mountains in the other thread ("head games" thread).
All this qould make a great ESPN short.
BTW, I don't recall anyone bringing this up, but when a coach is fired, are the players allowed to contact other schools (or vice versa)? Or would the opposite be considered tampering?
Also for those wondering the timing of this whole thing seems suspicious. If it was a true contingency plan, wouldn't once they heard that Wilson wanted to transfer to MU, they would alert Newbill. If they waited longer with Newbill, then it would be doing him a disservice. It just doesn't seem to me all of a sudden we get that Jamil wants to transfer in and kick DJ to the curb all in a matter of hours. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the timing actually gives IWB credibility, not make Buzz look sleazy.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 30, 2010, 05:42:48 PM
All this qould make a great ESPN short.
BTW, I don't recall anyone bringing this up, but when a coach is fired, are the players allowed to contact other schools (or vice versa)? Or would the opposite be considered tampering?
I asked that in another thread but didn't get an answer.
Although I don't believe this went as smoothly as IWB is saying, but why are some taking this at 100% face value and will never believe that a Badger wants to focus on studying?
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
This story is laughable. Tune in on Friday for the exclusive.
Who is Brad Forster? Could someone please explain why this guy is so credible...
Quote from: SD Warrior on June 30, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
Who is Brad Forster? Could someone please explain why this guy is so credible...
Some dude who made a youtube video of Newbill. He probably knows Newbill better than any of us I guess, but that isn't saying much since none of us know Newbill.
If Newbill's take on MU was so strong that he was willing to take the chance (as has been described), it would be great if there were a spot for him here after his prep year.
A few questions
If Buzz did tell Newbill that there was a pretty good chance he'd have to attend prep school for a year and DJ accepted this possibility, why isn't he just going to prep school?
If say Newbill had agreed to go to prep school for a year instead of Buzz releasing him from his LOI, could Buzz have then chosen to not take Newbill on the team next year if Newbill struggled in prep school? Maybe that's why DJ backed off on going to prep school? Fearing he might be left out in the cold after a year in prep school?
In the post by IWB, he never stated whether Buzz actually for sure told Newbill he would have to attend prep school for a year if he wanted to keep his scholarship and that then DJ balked at that. Am i wrong in not seeing this in the post by IWB?
If Buzz did for sure offer that option of prep school to Newbill and that then next year DJ would for sure have his Marquette scholarship, i don't have any problem with what Buzz did. If though Buzz basically pushed DJ away from even taking the prep school for a year option with no guarantee of a scholarship the next year, it seems a crappy thing to do by Buzz.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 30, 2010, 04:33:46 PM
This whole thing is beyond strange and if it went down with any other school, we would all be calling B.S.
Well almost any other school...I suspect if this went down in Bloomington, we wouldn't see quite the same level of outrage coming from some on this board.
I said it in another thread, but it's very relevant here, too.
IWB's commentary nicely represents MU's side, which could also be stated, how MU would like the story to be written. It paints the situation in the best light possible for MU.
The takeaway is .. IWB is MU's conduit to you. Brad Forster is DJN/Phillycoach's conduit to you. Neither are more or less credible. They are the same story, told from two perspectives with differing purposes.
Draw your own conclusion knowing elements of both stories are factual, both have spin.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 30, 2010, 09:16:53 PM
I said it in another thread, but it's very relevant here, too.
IWB's commentary nicely represents MU's side, which could also be stated, how MU would like the story to be written. It paints the situation in the best light possible for MU.
The takeaway is .. IWB is MU's conduit to you. Brad Forster is DJN/Phillycoach's conduit to you. Neither are more or less credible. They are the same story, told from two perspectives with differing purposes.
Draw your own conclusion knowing elements of both stories are factual, both have spin.
I agree with this. IWB is connected to MU...so we are getting MU's story through him. The truth probably lies in the middle somewhere.
For instance, Buzz continuously saying that someone was going prep, probably means that he had told Newbill of this possibility. However, my guess is that DJ expected this to be resolved much earlier than now. Which might be why his connections are so pissed off now.
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on June 30, 2010, 04:34:59 PM
Did he ever have any major offers other than ours? Was WV a real offer, or just another if we don't get the first 20 guys were after offers? That would be the only way it would make sense. Its take a risk on us or go to the Patriot league/DII/etc..
I just checked, Newbill was 17th in the Philly area, behind a guy committed to Rider and ahead of a guy committed to Hartford. And some are gnashing their teeth over this? Sorry Brad, this is big time hoops. I have a hard time believing DJ was led to believe his offer was an irrevocabloe 4-year guarantee instead of "hey, if someone better comes along, you're going prep."
Now that we have his AAU coaches comments, I'd say this notion that this kid was slated for prep school doesn't fly.
You don't sign a NLI and pass up others if you think there is a chance you are going to get cut. That notion is ludicrous. Why would any kid do this?
As his AAU coach said point blank, this was simply a situation where a better player came along and we dumped Newbill for the better player.
Everything else is spin and a bunch of crap. We had a commitment with a plater and we broke the commitment.
Folks, I have no vested interest in DJ Newbill. I simply moved to Philadelphia recently and being in close proximity to a Marquette recruit wanted to offer a sneak peek at a new member of the basketball team. I happen to have the equipment and a broadcasting background so I figured fans of MU basketball would be interested in getting to know an incoming freshman a bit better. If Vander Blue lived in Philly, I would have asked him if I could do the same type of piece.
It just so happens last night I received a phone call from Stan Laws who proceeded to tell me DJ's Marquette career had come to an unexpected and abrupt end. I also talked to DJ himself. He said he was caught off guard and had no idea this was coming. He was truly looking forward to joining the Marquette basketball program. The kid was voted AA Pennsylvania player of the year and had offers from several schools. He chose Marquette because of a deep respect for Buzz and other members of the staff. He also felt a sense of loyalty towards a program that courted him earlier in the process than other schools. He was looking forward to venturing away from home and playing for a quality institution. West Virginia and Georgetown were two other Big East schools to submit offers. If he had any idea Marquette was going to cast him aside when the next great player came along he would have never signed a letter of intent to travel 1500 miles from home. DJ was told by Buzz that he had every opportunity to earn playing time just like everyone else. He never discussed prep school with Buzz. He was cleared by the NCAA and ready to join the fray next week. It's as simple as that. Whether you choose to believe the kid and his coach is certainly your choice. I can tell you, what I heard on the phone last night was every bit believable. Tomorrow I will be conducting a sit down interview with Coach Laws and DJ. I have already interviewed both of them twice and was just about to upload a full length feature on DJ's journey from Strawberry Mansion High School to Marquette University. On Friday, you can hear the details of this unfortunate set of circumstances from the folks on this side of the table.
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 10:50:23 PM
DJ was told by Buzz that he had every opportunity to earn playing time just like everyone else. He never discussed prep school with Buzz. He was cleared by the NCAA and ready to join the fray next week. It's as simple as that.
If it's as simple is that, how come he had still not applied for admission?
Quote from: bradforster on June 30, 2010, 10:50:23 PM
Folks, I have no vested interest in DJ Newbill. I simply moved to Philadelphia recently and being in close proximity to a Marquette recruit wanted to offer a sneak peek at a new member of the basketball team. I happen to have the equipment and a broadcasting background so I figured fans of MU basketball would be interested in getting to know an incoming freshman a bit better. If Vander Blue lived in Philly, I would have asked him if I could do the same type of piece.
It just so happens last night I received a phone call from Stan Laws who proceeded to tell me DJ's Marquette career had come to an unexpected and abrupt end. I also talked to DJ himself. He said he was caught off guard and had no idea this was coming. He was truly looking forward to joining the Marquette basketball program. The kid was voted AA Pennsylvania player of the year and had offers from several schools. He chose Marquette because of a deep respect for Buzz and other members of the staff. He also felt a sense of loyalty towards a program that courted him earlier in the process than other schools. He was looking forward to venturing away from home and playing for a quality institution. West Virginia and Georgetown were two other Big East schools to submit offers. If he had any idea Marquette was going to cast him aside when the next great player came along he would have never signed a letter of intent to travel 1500 miles from home. DJ was told by Buzz that he had every opportunity to earn playing time just like everyone else. He never discussed prep school with Buzz. He was cleared by the NCAA and ready to join the fray next week. It's as simple as that. Whether you choose to believe the kid and his coach is certainly your choice. I can tell you, what I heard on the phone last night was every bit believable. Tomorrow I will be conducting a sit down interview with Coach Laws and DJ. I have already interviewed both of them twice and was just about to upload a full length feature on DJ's journey from Strawberry Mansion High School to Marquette University. On Friday, you can hear the details of this unfortunate set of circumstances from the folks on this side of the table.
You're LYING!! He knew all along he was going to a prep school. He knew all along that his National Letter of Intent he signed was merely a placeholder and MU told him that it wasn't rock solid.
I look forward to the interview to stop of this ridiculous spin going on.
Quote from: MUfan12 on June 30, 2010, 10:52:56 PM
If it's as simple is that, how come he had still not applied for admission?
I suspect the DJ camp will have a good answer ready and prepared for this question in the interview with Brad...however this one fact..is a fact..and a very important detail in this matter. Why would a recruit NOT have his application to MU completed and sent in less than 1 week from his schedule arrival on campus. The other peculiar thing to me in all of this was Golden Avalanche was proclaiming at the end of May that Newbill wouldn't be coming to MU. How would an MUScoop poster know of this, before the kid (DJ) himself knew about it?
If this went down as IWB wrote, and I am more inclined to believe IWB's account than Philly Coach's, this is palatable - at best. However, perception is reality, and most people's perceptions of this situation are that: DJ was cut, and Wilson was signed to replace DJ - because Wilson is thought to be a better prospect. And...that doesn't seem right to me. I'm glad we have Jamil, but do not like the means by which we appear to have gotten him. Would have much preferred Buzz/MU to not have LOI'd Newbill..and to have just let their verbal offer float...and if it got to a point where DJ said.."hey..I've got a concrete offer from WVY/GTown..but I want to go to MU...so, either LOI me now..and make it a 100% concrete deal - or I'm going to sign with GTwon." Why not just go about it that way?
Even if the whole mess actually went down in a way that is 100% squeaky clean, Buzz needs to stop sending recruits packing during or before the summer session now. 2 in 2 years is 2 too many.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 30, 2010, 10:57:19 PM
You're LYING!! He knew all along he was going to a prep school. He knew all along that his National Letter of Intent he signed was merely a placeholder and MU told him that it wasn't rock solid.
I look forward to the interview to stop of this ridiculous spin going on.
Of course you do.
In Chico's world:
Unknown coaches from Philly = rock solid truth tellers.
Solid insider from MU = liar.
Possibility that the truth lies somewhere in between = zero.
Hey Brad, if you're out there, some questions you might want to consider asking DJ:
- Why did you not apply to Marquette?
- Why were you not on campus with most of the other incoming players?
- Are you fully qualified at this moment? If so, when were you qualified?
- Did you ever discuss the possibility of attending prep school with the MU staff? If so, what was the discussed and decided?
- Did Marquette's staff discuss their offer and commitment to you as anything but unconditional?
- When did you last speak to a member of the coaching staff? What was the nature of that discussion?
Quote from: SD Warrior on June 30, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
Who is Brad Forster? Could someone please explain why this guy is so credible...
Because he's a Marquette grad who does voiceovers (http://voice123.com/bradforster)?***
Or a dentist (http://www.vancouver.healthchoices.ca/content/view/666/47/)?
Maybe a cop? (http://www.reviewonline.com/page/content.detail/id/508484.html?nav=5004)
Or a manager...or a consultant...or a boatswain (bosun)? (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Brad/Forster/)
But I could find nothing that's basketball related...Wait...there was one Brad Forester who wrote an article on Kyrie Irving for a Duke messageboard... (https://secure.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=5&c=1&requestedurl=http%3a%2f%2fmbd.scout.com%2fmb.aspx%3fs%3d167%26f%3d1386%26t%3d5911980%26p%3d1) ***maybe the same dude
And another who produces YouTube videos...and was a sports anchor/reporter for WMFD television in Ohio. (http://www.youtube.com/user/BradForster) ***same dude
I don't think we should kill the messengers here necessarily. Forster is some MU guy in Philly it sounds like and Phillycoach will defend Newbill's side at all costs.
I will be happy to ask questions on behalf of MU fans on this board. Please send them.
Where the hell is Tim Maymon when you need him? I'll wait for his comments before I take a side on who to believe here.
Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on July 01, 2010, 12:02:03 AM
Where the hell is Tim Maymon when you need him? I'll wait for his comments before I take a side on who to believe here.
Post of the week.
Hey Brad--
Thanks for being willing to take our questions. Please ask DJ...
As the spring signing period progressed, did you sense a disconnect growing between yourself and Marquette/ Buzz/Monarch?
Were you aware that Marquette was still recruiting and taking visits for 2010 players, even after the roster appeared to be set with Mbao leaving and Gardner signing?
If you were aware, was there any communication or explanation with MU?
Has your opinion of Buzz Williams changed throughout this ordeal?
I will say that I 100% hope the answers to those questions reveal that Marquette did as little wrong as possible. The more and more I learn and think about this, however, I think that Marquette is at least partially at fault for not treating a recruit very well. I have a feeling the reality is somewhere in the middle of IWB and DJ's explanation's, and I am fine with that.
My theory is that this contingency offer was a reality at some point of the recruitment of DJ. I would guess that DJ's camp thought that time had passed after pretty much every significant recruit in the country signed early in the spring period. DJ may have been worried about a situation like this a couple months ago, but I bet he was resting easier knowing he was so close. Then, Wilson decides to transfer and MU is the likely candidate. Buzz probably thought his chances of getting a player like Wilson were long gone this late in the period, so he jumped at his chance to get him. This might have meant he had to act swiftly and coldly with DJ, but Buzz wanted to improve his team more than protect DJ's feelings. I may not love that, but I can live with it.
I admit this is just speculation, but it seems to somewhat logically explain how Buzz could pull something like this and not become a total villain, as well as why Newbill's camp would be so aggrieved. I think Marquette and Buzz need to find a way to do some damage control without throwing DJ under the bus. In a world where people like the blogger from yahoo sports who wrote that article questioning MU ethics can be considered a credible source, we need to be proactive in this situation.
I look forward to what Brad gives us friday.
I could be wrong, but I suspect that the UWV and Georgetown "offers" were probably expressions of interest rather than real offers. Considering that Georgetown got in on Aaron Bowen late, it seems likely to me that DJ was a fallback for them if they didn't get Bowen. I think that DJ signed with MU because it was his only offer from a BE school. That would make sense.
Brad, I would like you to point blank ask him, if he actually turned down an LOI with either school.
It's looking like MU somehow is going to get a black eye on this one. I don't know if Buzz or Monarch is to blame, but signing a guy to a LOI when there is a more than 50% chance that he won't be coming seems like a questionable practice. It's setting yourself up to look bad.
Quote from: LittleMurs on July 01, 2010, 02:00:05 AM
I could be wrong, but I suspect that the UWV and Georgetown "offers" were probably expressions of interest rather than real offers.
I have been following recruiting for over a decade now and every recruit lists all of these offers from high-major DI schools. The majority of these relative off-the-radar recruits appeared to be contingent on other "higher priority" recruits. The vast majority of MU recruits are not top 100, but seem pretty generous with what their options truly were. I would read who they chose MU over and wonder if they actually had a true offer OR said university gave them a contingent offer.....there is a pecking order.....
IWB's account makes a lot of sense to me. My conjecture....DJ was given a scholarship offer contingent IF MU could not grab someone higher in the pecking order. DJ decided to take the chance because the other high-major "offers" he had were contingent. By accepting MU's "offer" he had a decent chance of coming to MU. He also got his name into national prominence. How many people even knew about him before he signed??? Every year there are recruits that are relative unknowns until they sign and then their stock BOOMS because of where they go.
I could very well see this situation as Buzz doing DJ a favor. The scholarship was offered as a contingency. DJ wanted to sign anyways, fully knowing it might not go through because Buzz had stated priorities that he wanted more.
Buzz might be getting defamed for helping a guy out! Regardless, never accept a contingent scholarship because this situation will happen again! Keep the contingent offers the same way as they have always been done......"wait and see young fella".....
Quote from: Pakuni on June 30, 2010, 11:25:13 PM
Of course you do.
In Chico's world:
Unknown coaches from Philly = rock solid truth tellers.
Solid insider from MU = liar.
Possibility that the truth lies somewhere in between = zero.
Hey Brad, if you're out there, some questions you might want to consider asking DJ:
- Why did you not apply to Marquette?
- Why were you not on campus with most of the other incoming players?
- Are you fully qualified at this moment? If so, when were you qualified?
- Did you ever discuss the possibility of attending prep school with the MU staff? If so, what was the discussed and decided?
- Did Marquette's staff discuss their offer and commitment to you as anything but unconditional?
- When did you last speak to a member of the coaching staff? What was the nature of that discussion?
Brad, the above questions are excellent and pertinent, but here are a few more:
1) What is the deal with the MU summer league? How could you not know such an event was occurring and not be invited, or even aware of it?
2) What are your school options now, have you received any offers since this incident occurred?
3) Were you willing to attend a prep school for a year with the hope of attending MU after and if so, did you advise the MU staff?
Look, clearly there is enough evidence to suggest that Newbill's recruitment was different. He didn't submit his application...he was seemingly unaware of the summer league...and Buzz's prep school comments. Furthermore, we find out that phillycoach was fired and seemingly not really part of the recruitment. So these point to the possibility of some sort of contingent offer and that parts of IWB's story are correct.
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Newbill can't be disappointed and feel like he was treated unfairly. Maybe he felt that he did all he needed to do on the court and off. Maybe after Yous left, and June rolled around, that he felt that he was in the clear.
I will say this though...this is the third instance in the last year or so where what a recruit was supposedly told differs from what the recruit supposedly heard. Roseboro...Maymon...Newbill... Is Buzz at fault for all of these? Who knows? But this does suggest that Buzz may have "communication problems" when dealing with some of these guys.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on July 01, 2010, 04:18:27 AM
I have been following recruiting for over a decade now and every recruit lists all of these offers from high-major DI schools. The majority of these relative off-the-radar recruits appeared to be contingent on other "higher priority" recruits. The vast majority of MU recruits are not top 100, but seem pretty generous with what their options truly were. I would read who they chose MU over and wonder if they actually had a true offer OR said university gave them a contingent offer.....there is a pecking order.....
IWB's account makes a lot of sense to me. My conjecture....DJ was given a scholarship offer contingent IF MU could not grab someone higher in the pecking order. DJ decided to take the chance because the other high-major "offers" he had were contingent. By accepting MU's "offer" he had a decent chance of coming to MU. He also got his name into national prominence. How many people even knew about him before he signed??? Every year there are recruits that are relative unknowns until they sign and then their stock BOOMS because of where they go.
I could very well see this situation as Buzz doing DJ a favor. The scholarship was offered as a contingency. DJ wanted to sign anyways, fully knowing it might not go through because Buzz had stated priorities that he wanted more.
Buzz might be getting defamed for helping a guy out! Regardless, never accept a contingent scholarship because this situation will happen again! Keep the contingent offers the same way as they have always been done......"wait and see young fella".....
That's all well and good, until the NLI signing. That's a contract the kid is bound to, and the school should be too. I don't care if Buzz wants to give kids contingent offers, but don't have them sign then.
Even if you put all sorts of terms out there and they still want to sign... don't let them. You're the adult with experience in this area; they're a 17-19 year old kid that probably doesn't know the full consequences of their actions. You should know how raw a deal this is for the kid and not let him get into it. Maybe this will cause you to lose out on your plan B; that's better than getting a rep as a guy who over-recruits even the incoming recruiting class regularly.
Quote from: TJ on July 01, 2010, 07:18:33 AMthat's better than getting a rep as a guy who over-recruits even the incoming recruiting class regularly.
Buzz invites that rep, though. He openly admits he recruits every single day because you have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow.
"You have the Marquette side and he has the Newbill side."
You don't have either side, most notably Newbill's. He hasn't said a word. Your reading speculation and innuendo.
Quote from: TJ on July 01, 2010, 07:18:33 AM
You're the adult with experience in this area; they're a 17-19 year old kid that probably doesn't know the full consequences of their actions.
Oh Bull. We have heard from two adult coaches if DJ's who claim to know a whole lot about the situation, and were supposedly involved with him throughout this process. He has a mother, and other coaches who assisted him. He may be 18, but the people advising him aren't. Actions come with consequences.
bradforster-
A few questions for DJ:
1) What returning or new players did you converse with on a regular basis?
2) Did they or the coaching staff tell you about the ProAm?
3) Were you aware that the Buzz had indicated a while ago that one or more of the recruits may be headed to prep school, and did you have any indication that he was referring to you?
4) Buzz has indicated many times that he was still recruiting frontcourt players for the upcoming year, yet the roster was full. Where did you think that scholarship would be going to?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 01, 2010, 07:30:00 AM
Oh Bull. We have heard from two adult coaches if DJ's who claim to know a whole lot about the situation, and were supposedly involved with him throughout this process. He has a mother, and other coaches who assisted him. He may be 18, but the people advising him aren't. Actions come with consequences.
Well, they may be adults, but they are adults with limited experience in the recruiting process. I just don't see why we signed him to a NLI. I just hope it wasn't to keep him away from other BE schools while we tried to get someone better.
I am very pleased that we ended up with Wilson. I am not pleased how we got there though. If we aren't commited to a kid, don't sign him to an NLI. This is the second year in a row this has happened before the school year started. In the first case, we convinced Roseboro to transfer. In this case he was never admitted so we have an out.
Very unseemly. I don't know how you can defend it at face value.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 07:49:29 AM
Very unseemly. I don't know how you can defend it at face value.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk6DPq2_c2M
LOL...yeah, quoting the Godfather II really helps your position.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 07:49:29 AM
Well, they may be adults, but they are adults with limited experience in the recruiting process. I just don't see why we signed him to a NLI. I just hope it wasn't to keep him away from other BE schools while we tried to get someone better.
I am very pleased that we ended up with Wilson. I am not pleased how we got there though. If we aren't commited to a kid, don't sign him to an NLI. This is the second year in a row this has happened before the school year started. In the first case, we convinced Roseboro to transfer. In this case he was never admitted so we have an out.
Very unseemly. I don't know how you can defend it at face value.
I'm with you that it's a bad way to do things and, whether he was a willing participant or not, it's unfortunate for DJ Newbill.
That said, I'd hesitate to call it unseemly if - if - IWB's account is true, or at least mostly true. As has been mentioned, the practice of stashing away kids at prep schools hardly is unheard of. If DJ knew that was the plan - or at least a possibility - going in, it's hard to argue that what MU did here was immoral or "unseemly."
It's bad practice, IMO, because it leaves the program open to criticism and questions of integrity and it sets a kid up in a situation in which he may or may not fully understand the risks involved. But I'm not sure anything unethical or immoral happened here.
Question for Brad...
Who was the other adviser that was involved in DJ's recruitment with MU? IWB's story indicated someone else was the primary contact and that Coach Laws wasn't as involved in the whole process.
NLI is only binding after the player gets accepted by admissions. The end around this was not having Newbill submit his papers. I can certainly see why people would think this is dirty pool, even if Newbill agreed with it. The only thing that makes sense to me is if Buzz truly believed Newbill would join MU in 2011. If Newbill goes to prep and has a 2011 offer from MU then I am okay with it. The other thought is if Newbill is not that good, why would you not want him to sign with another Big East school. I think Buzz believes Newbill will be good in the long run, but given the current calibur of guard at MU, Newbill would not help next year or maybe even the next.
From what ive heard so far, my view is that the coaches made it clear their plans to the recruit and his family and coaches. Why not? Whether they understood is obviously a different story. However if it is true that the offer was contingent and he wanted to accept it anyway, this summer has certainly been odd. We've had coaches and updates and videos of this kid repeatedly posted. Everytime a prep school alternative was mentioned (including by the staff) it was clarified that he was coming in the fall. Either he wanted to believe that or increase his profile to make sure everyone here was in the kids camp (including me- he sounded like a find). Heck we knew more about him than everyone else save blue- certainly odd for a recruit we never heard of beforehand. He was probably a few days away from heading out- including this video of his move to mu. Doesn't this seem all designed to make it difficult for the staff not to accept him? Didn't iwb say that even if Wilson didn't come he was slated for prep school? If true, everything seems designed to get the staff to accept him if they had a scholie. He was showing up, we were told- and he was close to doing so. I guess the wrench with Wilson and now his confidants feel aggrieved and making it known. And many here are agreeing with them. Something seems to calculated to me. It's sad for the kid and I feel for him. I guess I see two possible missteps for us (1). Accepting the nli- gotta believe buzz won't be pushed to accept one in the future and (2) the time frame on the Wilson move. Not sure if that was possible earlier- but should have been communicated earlier. However if he was slated for prep school anyway- that shouldn't make a difference, but it would be very hard to place him in prep school with an open scholy- the outcry would have been deafening. Though was that outcry calculated? Who knows- just thoughts and tryin to think through this as more than one part of the story seems off.
What are these videos people are referring to?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 01, 2010, 08:48:49 AM
What are these videos people are referring to?
Not sure if they were brad's, but there were videos of him working out that impressed lots, and aren't we supposed to get a video tomorrow.
Another aside, does anyone rremember handlers being mentioned with this kid. I seem too. Maybe there is more going on In the recruiting process here- just a thought.
Quote from: Final Four or Bust on July 01, 2010, 08:34:31 AM
From what ive heard so far, my view is that the coaches made it clear their plans to the recruit and his family and coaches. Why not? Whether they understood is obviously a different story. However if it is true that the offer was contingent and he wanted to accept it anyway, this summer has certainly been odd. We've had coaches and updates and videos of this kid repeatedly posted. Everytime a prep school alternative was mentioned (including by the staff) it was clarified that he was coming in the fall. Either he wanted to believe that or increase his profile to make sure everyone here was in the kids camp (including me- he sounded like a find). Heck we knew more about him than everyone else save blue- certainly odd for a recruit we never heard of beforehand. He was probably a few days away from heading out- including this video of his move to mu. Doesn't this seem all designed to make it difficult for the staff not to accept him? Didn't iwb say that even if Wilson didn't come he was slated for prep school? If true, everything seems designed to get the staff to accept him if they had a scholie. He was showing up, we were told- and he was close to doing so. I guess the wrench with Wilson and now his confidants feel aggrieved and making it known. And many here are agreeing with them. Something seems to calculated to me. It's sad for the kid and I feel for him. I guess I see two possible missteps for us (1). Accepting the nli- gotta believe buzz won't be pushed to accept one in the future and (2) the time frame on the Wilson move. Not sure if that was possible earlier- but should have been communicated earlier. However if he was slated for prep school anyway- that shouldn't make a difference, but it would be very hard to place him in prep school with an open scholy- the outcry would have been deafening. Though was that outcry calculated? Who knows- just thoughts and tryin to think through this as more than one part of the story seems off.
This all sounds very feasible. I also thought this kid was getting more than the typical recruits publicity and in hind sight it does seem like it may have been calculated. It worked to some degree, who didn't think this kid had a great work ethic and was pulling for him to succeed. The whole Philly coach thing was a little off also. How many coaches are open particpents in message boards. Lots of questionable comments in his posts as well.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 01, 2010, 08:02:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk6DPq2_c2M
You're right. The recent movements in the conferences are another great example that D1 athletics are a business.
BUT... BUT...
Where does it stop? If Erik Williams doesn't earn minutes this year, should Buzz tell him to leave? Should MU cut the last 3 guys on the bench every year and try to replace them with top 100 guys?
Where is the line for "business" vs "amateur" athletics?
I honestly don't know... but I'm afraid it can be a slippery slope, so I'm less than thrilled with rationale like "it's business".
Quote from: 2002MUalum on July 01, 2010, 09:31:59 AM
Where does it stop? If Erik Williams doesn't earn minutes this year, should Buzz tell him to leave? Should MU cut the last 3 guys on the bench every year and try to replace them with top 100 guys?
Maybe. If Erik Williams can't get on the floor, maybe he would be better off elsewhere. If MU can recruit 3 top 100 guys, then, yes, maybe the last three guys would also be a better fit at a place like, oh i don't know...Wisconsin or UWM. That is obviously an extreme and unrealistic example, but you bring in the best talent you can, and guys that aren't up to the standard(s) MU establishes for iteself, are probably better served playing elsewhere. I guess I don't really see a whole lot wrong with that.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2010, 07:49:29 AM
Well, they may be adults, but they are adults with limited experience in the recruiting process. I just don't see why we signed him to a NLI. I just hope it wasn't to keep him away from other BE schools while we tried to get someone better.
I am very pleased that we ended up with Wilson. I am not pleased how we got there though. If we aren't commited to a kid, don't sign him to an NLI. This is the second year in a row this has happened before the school year started. In the first case, we convinced Roseboro to transfer. In this case he was never admitted so we have an out.
Very unseemly. I don't know how you can defend it at face value.
That's better than what I would have replied with, so I'll +1 it instead.
Brad,
Questions for your sources and/or Newbill:
1. Hypothetically speaking only, if Buzz had ever advised you to go to prep school as such to wait for an opportunity to open up at MU, would you have accepted and follow through with that advise?
2. If yes to 1, why would you have done that?
3. Officially (the times that counts against MU's recruiting hours per NCAA), who on the MU coaching staff had you talked to? Officially, who at Strawberry Mansion could MU staff talk to with regards to your recruitment?
Mike
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 01, 2010, 09:49:50 AM
Maybe. If Erik Williams can't get on the floor, maybe he would be better off elsewhere. If MU can recruit 3 top 100 guys, then, yes, maybe the last three guys would also be a better fit at a place like, oh i don't know...Wisconsin or UWM. That is obviously an extreme and unrealistic example, but you bring in the best talent you can, and guys that aren't up to the standard(s) MU establishes for iteself, are probably better served playing elsewhere. I guess I don't really see a whole lot wrong with that.
eek.
I hear you, but I just don't know if I want my alma mater turning into a basketball factory that will show kids the door simply because there are better players out there. I understand this is D1 hoops, but how cut throat are we going to get?
Pro sports? Absolutely.
College sports? I'm not sure I want to see that at my favorite school.
Let's at least keep the illusion of amateur athletics.
Quote from: Final Four or Bust on July 01, 2010, 08:34:31 AM
From what ive heard so far, my view is that the coaches made it clear their plans to the recruit and his family and coaches. Why not? Whether they understood is obviously a different story. However if it is true that the offer was contingent and he wanted to accept it anyway, this summer has certainly been odd. We've had coaches and updates and videos of this kid repeatedly posted. Everytime a prep school alternative was mentioned (including by the staff) it was clarified that he was coming in the fall. Either he wanted to believe that or increase his profile to make sure everyone here was in the kids camp (including me- he sounded like a find). Heck we knew more about him than everyone else save blue- certainly odd for a recruit we never heard of beforehand. He was probably a few days away from heading out- including this video of his move to mu. Doesn't this seem all designed to make it difficult for the staff not to accept him? Didn't iwb say that even if Wilson didn't come he was slated for prep school? If true, everything seems designed to get the staff to accept him if they had a scholie. He was showing up, we were told- and he was close to doing so. I guess the wrench with Wilson and now his confidants feel aggrieved and making it known. And many here are agreeing with them. Something seems to calculated to me. It's sad for the kid and I feel for him. I guess I see two possible missteps for us (1). Accepting the nli- gotta believe buzz won't be pushed to accept one in the future and (2) the time frame on the Wilson move. Not sure if that was possible earlier- but should have been communicated earlier. However if he was slated for prep school anyway- that shouldn't make a difference, but it would be very hard to place him in prep school with an open scholy- the outcry would have been deafening. Though was that outcry calculated? Who knows- just thoughts and tryin to think through this as more than one part of the story seems off.
Never really thought about this but yea that is one heck of a theory. I haven't been on here as long as many, but I can't really remember a kid's coach coming on here and posting about him and talking him up. It is just sort of weird. Also the lengths Brad Forster is going to while not having a vested interest in Newbill like he said is weird.