I realize this has been brought up many times before, but now that we have seen and heard a few more things is anyone clear (or have an idea) on next years starting line up? I was thinking about making a poll until I realized there are so many different possible combinations. We all obviously know JFB and DJO are for sure starters with Junior making a solid case as well. The $91 question is who's left, 2 positions. Blue's questionable sn. Season has doubted some, Jamail has plenty of skill, but we all know Buzz is a big trust guy and it takes him a bit for him to have your trust. That being said, will Vander or Mellow start? Most likely one of them, if not certainly Buycks. That leaves one position left, either at Center (Chris) or Foward (Jae/Erik). IMO Erik is going to be a nice role player earning 15-20 MPG. I think Chris will start off the season starting but then Jae will work his way up to earn his spot, similar to last year with DJO. I have to say I am very excited to see Buzz play these guys next year because we have SO many options. I didn't even mention Gardner, Newbill, or Smith, not that they would start, but could still make an impact.
Here's mine, tell me yours.
PG- Junior
G- Vander
G- DJO
F- Jimmy
F- Jae
Junior
Vander
DJO
JFB
Otule
I think we will see MANY different combos this year...and hopefully towards the end of the year, Buzz and staff will have their 5 distinguished 'starters'.
PLUS...I'm a big believer that is doesnt necessarily matter if you start the game...it matters if you're in at the end when the game is on the line. So I think it could be a point to take note of who Buzz plays at the end of games too.
this question may not belong in this thread but...does anyone see us pressing a lot this year?...or different types of zone defenses to help us get out and run even better?
This is what I expect to see at the start of the season...
Cadougan
DJO
Fulce
Butler
Otule
And this is what I hope to see by the time January rolls around...
Blue
DJO
Crowder
Otule
Butler
+1
Cadougan will start the season at PG, but may be replaced by Vander Blue by midseason. Buycks will start at #2, DJO at #3, Butler at #4, and Otule at #5 (at least to start the season).
The way things stand now there will be a lot of subbing (large rotation), which I don't like-----too many players of relatively the same talent level. Buzz overachieved last season in part because of a very small rotation (synergy).
I think it all hinges on O'tule. If he has improved and can stay healthy he starts. I do not think Big OX will be phsically ready to start. I also think that the fact that Jones is already here is a hugh boost to his chances.
C O'tule
F Crowder
F Butler
G DJO
G Buyckes
F Fulce
F Crowder
F Butler
G DJO
G Buyckes
Cadougan
Bucyks
DJO
Butler
Otule
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 31, 2010, 08:06:54 AM
And this is what I hope to see by the time January rolls around...
Blue
DJO
Crowder
Otule
Butler
+1 I'd love to see Vander at the 1. Big lineup too.
Junior
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Otule
First off the bench
Blue
Buycks
Fulce
i am not buying Bucyks or Fulce starting before Crowder. Have not seen him play but by many accounts, he is a stud. I have seen Bucyks and Fulce play and neither is a stud!
PG Caddy
2G DJO
PF Crowder
SF Butler
C Otule
Vander and Bucyks will likely be first two off bench, with Fulce spotting the Forwards and Otule. Ox, Jones, and others will land some minutes in blow outs, injuries or foul trouble.
Erik Williams will be in the mix as well as Jamial Jones. I see a 10 man rotation with Gardner, Smith and Newbill earning their spurs with limited minutes once the BE season starts.
OT...Can we put an end to calling Junior "Caddy?" That might be the worst nickname I have ever heard.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on May 31, 2010, 11:44:38 AM
OT...Can we put an end to calling Junior "Caddy?" That might be the worst nickname I have ever heard.
Agreed.
Junior
Buycks (replaced by Blue mid-season)
DJO
Butler
Otule
Crowder first off the bench.
Butler
DJO
and the 3 hardest working players on the team.
(Hopefully, a F/C is one of them.)
The great thing about next year's lineup is going to be its versatility. My guess:
Cadougan
Buycks
DJO
Butler
Otulue
Believe Jamail Jones and Crowder have biggest impact of the newcomers. Competition for PT is going to be quite possibly, more intense than has been seen at MU in some time...if ever. Legitimately think we have 12 high-major players..with Gardener being the only one that probably won't be ready for immediate PT.
Quote from: Ners on May 31, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
The great thing about next year's lineup is going to be its versatility. My guess:
Cadougan
Buycks
DJO
Butler
Otulue
Believe Jamail Jones and Crowder have biggest impact of the newcomers. Competition for PT is going to be quite possibly, more intense than has been seen at MU in some time...if ever. Legitimately think we have 12 high-major players..with Gardener being the only one that probably won't be ready for immediate PT.
completely agree.
Quote from: Ners on May 31, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
The great thing about next year's lineup is going to be its versatility. My guess:
Cadougan
Buycks
DJO
Butler
Otule
Believe Jamail Jones and Crowder have biggest impact of the newcomers. Competition for PT is going to be quite possibly, more intense than has been seen at MU in some time...if ever. Legitimately think we have 12 high-major players..with Gardener being the only one that probably won't be ready for immediate PT.
No mention of Vander?
I think he starts over Cadougan...
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 01, 2010, 08:39:59 AM
No mention of Vander?
I think he starts over Cadougan...
based on?
Yes, I know this isn't realistic but i would LOVE to see Blue start against Madison.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 01, 2010, 08:39:59 AM
No mention of Vander?
I think he starts over Cadougan...
I didn't mention Vander in my assessment as I believe Jones and Crowder will have biggest impact. I just hope that fans don't expect too much from Vander as a freshman. He has a lot of hype, and of course the UW decommitment, MU commitment just adds juice. Vander may have the highest ceiling of any of next year's recruits, but I'm not sure he'll be the most productive as a freshman. I was really impressed from what I saw of Jamial Jones recently....and just think he might be more ready to contribute immediately.
Quote from: Ners on June 01, 2010, 09:12:38 AM
I didn't mention Vander in my assessment as I believe Jones and Crowder will have biggest impact. I just hope that fans don't expect too much from Vander as a freshman. He has a lot of hype, and of course the UW decommitment, MU commitment just adds juice. Vander may have the highest ceiling of any of next year's recruits, but I'm not sure he'll be the most productive as a freshman. I was really impressed from what I saw of Jamial Jones recently....and just think he might be more ready to contribute immediately.
Based upon what I saw when he was on ESPN, Jones' defense needs a ton of work for him to make immediate contributions.
I think we are making the same mistake as we did last year...we expect too much from our freshman and don't recognize their faults.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 01, 2010, 08:39:59 AM
No mention of Vander?
I think he starts over Cadougan...
Why would you expect someone a freshman, who didn't play point guard in high school, to start over a sophomore who was considered one of the top 10-15 point guards in the country coming out of high school?
What excites me is that at the beginning of the school year, it is looking like we will actually have 13 scholarship players. Buzz will have options and there will be a healthy competition for minutes.
I think guessing on who the starters will be is kindof a lost cause. Are we talking about who starts in November? Are we talking about who starts in January? Are we talking about who starts in March?
I have held this entire time, and I will continue to feel this way barring something unexpected:
Guards - Junior (PG 1), Vander (PG 2/SG 3), DJO (SG 1), Buycks (SG 2), Smith, Newbill
Wings - Butler, Jones
Forwards - Fulce, Crowder, Williams, Gardner
Centers - Otule
The italics are the players that I think will get the majority of minutes. A healthy 9 man rotation...I get would worried if it extends beyond that.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 01, 2010, 09:20:05 AM
I think we are making the same mistake as we did last year...we expect too much from our freshman and don't recognize their faults.
This. Should we sticky some " (Insert Freshman Here) in Buzz's Dog House? Plays minimal minutes against (Insert Mid-Major Here). Possible mid-season transfer?" posts just to get em out of the way pre-season?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 01, 2010, 09:22:53 AM
Why would you expect someone a freshman, who didn't play point guard in high school, to start over a sophomore who was considered one of the top 10-15 point guards in the country coming out of high school?
Because that Sophomore is really no more then a glorified Freshman who couldn't go left and may have lingering issues with the achilles which would open the door for a recruit who didn't choose Marquette to sit on the bench.
I think every one of our players will have questions asked about them and it's not a crazy thought for some fans to think a Freshman will start.
nice spin!
Junior is a solid PG. He played in more than a few games, and has a lot more practice time on either of the recruits. He is used to the college schedule and load.
There has been no indication that Junior has any lingering issues with his heel.
Junior is the only pure pg on the 2010 roster. I think Vander has the ability, and can/wants to develop into a PG. But going into next year...Im not sure he will be ready to get more minutes than Junior at the PG position.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 01, 2010, 10:46:19 AM
nice spin!
Junior is a solid PG. He played in more than a few games, and has a lot more practice time on either of the recruits. He is used to the college schedule and load.
There has been no indication that Junior has any lingering issues with his heel.
Agree..the step up from Wisconsin HS basketball to high-major ball is a big one. I don't think we saw the real Junior last year. As many have said/predicted, Junior could evolve into a Levance Field's type of player..nothing really sexy about his game..just effective. Vander Blue is certainly more of an electryifying type of talent, and likely will be a great player at MU..but I'm not ready to concede the point position to Vander just yet...but if Buzz wants to go "big" we could then see Vander at the point.
Vander might be the back-up for 3 positions next year, so his playing time will be 20-25 minutes
per game. He might be Jimmy Butler of 2 years ago.
FYI, recruiting analyst Jerry Meyer weighed in on some of this in his latest column (http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1089832).
The transition is difficult but if a prospect is thought to be the best Freshman PG coming into the league, the best impact player coming into the league, the best perimeter scorer coming into the league, and the best defender coming into the league by one analyst then perhaps this is one recruit who can make the transition for Buzz.
I'm just writing that it's not crazy to expect Blue to start and its not crazy to expect him to have a great impact as a Freshman. It happens all around the country. Further, even with Cadougan being highly rated out of prep, his less than stellar 50 minutes of playing time last year isn't enough for this observer to definitively believe he's the starter.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on June 01, 2010, 11:29:42 AM
FYI, recruiting analyst Jerry Meyer weighed in on some of this in his latest column (http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1089832).
The transition is difficult but if a prospect is thought to be the best Freshman PG coming into the league, the best impact player coming into the league, the best perimeter scorer coming into the league, and the best defender coming into the league by one analyst then perhaps this is one recruit who can make the transition for Buzz.
I'm just writing that it's not crazy to expect Blue to start and its not crazy to expect him to have a great impact as a Freshman. It happens all around the country. Further, even with Cadougan being highly rated out of prep, his less than stellar 50 minutes of playing time last year isn't enough for this observer to definitively believe he's the starter.
No, it isn't crazy to think it, we just have differing opinions. 50 minutes of playing time is hard to judge, because he actually only played in conference games... Had he not been injured, he'd probably have been playing at least 20-25 a game.
Don't get me wrong, I am very excited about VB suiting up. I guess I have always been a little more cynical than most... but I think he will be a solid player for us this year, just not our starting PG or have the most minutes at PG.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 01, 2010, 11:17:12 AM
Vander might be the back-up for 3 positions next year, so his playing time will be 20-25 minutes
per game. He might be Jimmy Butler of 2 years ago.
This. I think Blue is the #4 guard in an offense that starts three guards. My guess is that Junior, Buycks and DJO will be the starters at least at the beginning of the year. And that Blue will be on the floor with two of the others most of the time. And yes, he will get a lot of minutes.
And if Blue starts in front of anyone, it will be Buycks.
1. Cadougan
2. DJO
3. Butler
4.Fulce
5. Otule
First off bench:
Buycks
Crowder
Blue
Williams
Jones
Buzz loves hard working experienced players. I believe this will be the starting line up at the beginning of the season, but I can definitely see Crowder jumping into the starting line up during mid season. I think Buycks will be a nice suprise coming off the bench being a solid role player and good defender. Hopefull E-Will can develop his offensive game and start hustling on defense because he has all the talent in the world. Give Jones and Blue one year to get their feet wet, and watch them explode the following year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 01, 2010, 09:22:53 AM
Why would you expect someone a freshman, who didn't play point guard in high school, to start over a sophomore who was considered one of the top 10-15 point guards in the country coming out of high school?
This thread is based on speculation so I speculate that Vander should be worthy of starting ahead of a rehabbing PG. Junior hasn't proved himself to be a solid PG yet as he's only managed to get a couple of minutes here and there.
I give Vander the edge based on his explosiveness and ability to get to the hoop. Yes, I haven't seen him (or any of the newcomers take on the current players in pick-up games) but what I have seen is Cadougan's lack of explosiveness (when compared to Vander).
So, going back to my initial post, if Vander doesn't work his butt off to be one of the other three players to join Butler and DJO, then so be it.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 01, 2010, 06:01:47 PM
This thread is based on speculation so I speculate that Vander should be worthy of starting ahead of a rehabbing PG. Junior hasn't proved himself to be a solid PG yet as he's only managed to get a couple of minutes here and there.
I give Vander the edge based on his explosiveness and ability to get to the hoop. Yes, I haven't seen him (or any of the newcomers take on the current players in pick-up games) but what I have seen is Cadougan's lack of explosiveness (when compared to Vander).
So, going back to my initial post, if Vander doesn't work his butt off to be one of the other three players to join Butler and DJO, then so be it.
Vander isnt really a PG right now, hes better on the wing. Even he has admitted that he needs to develop his PG skills. But yet, you give him "the edge based on his explosiveness and ability to get to the hoop" without watching him play?
We dont yet know what Junior is capable of at the D1 level when healthy. He didn't contribute much last year BECAUSE HE TORE HIS ACHILLIES and was significantly behind. He is a pure PG though...unlike Vander...and when he was healthy during HS, he was one of the best PGs in the nation.
Dont get me wrong, I am very excited to have Vander as a part of this program. I just think some people are writing off Junior based on what happened last year.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on June 01, 2010, 06:35:51 PM
Vander isnt really a PG right now, hes better on the wing. Even he has admitted that he needs to develop his PG skills. But yet, you give him "the edge based on his explosiveness and ability to get to the hoop" without watching him play?
We dont yet know what Junior is capable of at the D1 level when healthy. He didn't contribute much last year BECAUSE HE TORE HIS ACHILLIES and was significantly behind. He is a pure PG though...unlike Vander...and when he was healthy during HS, he was one of the best PGs in the nation.
Dont get me wrong, I am very excited to have Vander as a part of this program. I just think some people are writing off Junior based on what happened last year.
+1
What are the chances of Vander playing the point? I understand it'll help him for his nba future, but does Buzz even want him at the 1?
im sitting back reading this stuff and im amazed at some of the comments. The only thing that makes blue a pg is his size not his game. Ive seen him and he is a great athlete and a deadly outside shooter. He is not really good off the bounce and someone said it best he wasnt a pg in high school. Junior and smith along with newbill r the only true pg mu has with newbill being able to switch to the 2 an 3 bcause of size 6ft 4or5 and skill level. He is more like a gilbert arenas type player. Not saying that he will start but i think when its all said and done dj will be ln the floor alot. I think to make a true assesment we must see these guys in action and know their skill level and capabilities. Forgive me if i mispelled a word or 2.
Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 02, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
im sitting back reading this stuff and im amazed at some of the comments. The only thing that makes blue a pg is his size not his game. Ive seen him and he is a great athlete and a deadly outside shooter. He is not really good off the bounce and someone said it best he wasnt a pg in high school. Junior and smith along with newbill r the only true pg mu has with newbill being able to switch to the 2 an 3 bcause of size 6ft 4or5 and skill level. He is more like a gilbert arenas type player. Not saying that he will start but i think when its all said and done dj will be ln the floor alot. I think to make a true assesment we must see these guys in action and know their skill level and capabilities. Forgive me if i mispelled a word or 2.
I agree that Blue seems like more of a natural 2, but he's interested in playing the 1.
Edit: Here's one of the articles (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/92111434.html) where Blue mentioned playing the 1.
FTA:
"Right now I'm looking at myself being more of a 1, and then adjusting to being more of a 2," he said. "At Memorial I was playing mostly the 3-4, pretty much because I was taller than everybody else. I want to be more of a 1, but Coach Buzz says that I'm just a basketball player and I'm going to be out on the floor. I want to play more of the 1 because I've looked at the conference and I've watched NBA games and I've watched a lot of film on John Wall, because me and him, I feel, have a lot of similarities. We're both tall but we're quick with the ball, and that's tough for teams to handle."
Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 02, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
im sitting back reading this stuff and im amazed at some of the comments. The only thing that makes blue a pg is his size not his game. Ive seen him and he is a great athlete and a deadly outside shooter. He is not really good off the bounce and someone said it best he wasnt a pg in high school. Junior and smith along with newbill r the only true pg mu has with newbill being able to switch to the 2 an 3 bcause of size 6ft 4or5 and skill level. He is more like a gilbert arenas type player. Not saying that he will start but i think when its all said and done dj will be ln the floor alot. I think to make a true assesment we must see these guys in action and know their skill level and capabilities. Forgive me if i mispelled a word or 2.
What do you think of national recruiting analyst Jerry Meyer calling Blue the best incoming PG to the Big East? Think he's just off on that? Mixed up positions? Or does he see something different in Blue then most everyone else?
And calling Smith a true PG seems to contradict most of the scouting reports on him from Chicago. Even the heavy hitting, MU-leaning recruitniks have written that Smith really needs to work on his skills to be effective at the 1 in college.
As ever, no one really knows what the new players will become.
i agree with that last statement. And buzz lives by the motto wdyln, where do you live now. Not the past, not the future, now. So what ever skill level and position these frosh currently posess, now thats what buzz has to blend for the success of mu bball during the 2010-2011 season.