MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GOMU85 on April 11, 2010, 11:24:08 AM
-
I had a chat with MBOA last night and he was'nt too sure if he was coming back next year. So as everyone has speculated, MBAO indeed maybe the one to leave if another recruit in signed...
-
honestly, it's kind of a bummer that someone who commits to a program might be asked to leave. I'm not sure if that's the case here but it doesn't seem decent. I hope Mbao situation works out for him.
-
I had a chat with MBOA last night and he was'nt too sure if he was coming back next year. So as everyone has speculated, MBAO indeed maybe the one to leave if another recruit in signed...
I'm guessing you were at the Sigma Chi party last night too huh? I shook hands with Yous when I walked by him. He honestl y didn't seem to be in a really good mood.
-
Who is this Mboa you speak of?
-
dude at least someone else pointed out that this was at a party. I saw him too, and yeah he didn't look too happy. I never really see Yous with any of the team to be honest on campus
-
With Buzz going hard after some bigs, it sure looks like somebody's days at MU is numbered. Could very well be Mbao. I thought I heard or read somewhere that his knee is still an issue.
-
If in fact true and again if, when does the staff make such an announcement, after a new recruit is signed?
-
I imagine it would probably in conjunction with the announcement of a new signing.
-
Oh surprise, surprise.
-
Is there anybody starting to wonder about some of these guys (Mbao, if true, Roseboro, McMorrow, the Juco who has rape issues, etc.) not working out? Jury is still out on Otule.
I hope one of these days we get it right on a big.
Oh yeah--I forgot the 7 foot mystery recruit who is an altar boy with an A Average and a HS AA that we will be snapping up.
-
Is there anybody starting to wonder about some of these guys (Mbao, if true, Roseboro, McMorrow, the Juco who has rape issues, etc.) not working out? Jury is still out on Otule.
Wonder what about these guys? That MU has had some bad luck with bigs?
-
I had a chat with MBOA last night and he was'nt too sure if he was coming back next year. So as everyone has speculated, MBAO indeed maybe the one to leave if another recruit in signed...
GOMU85...
could you possibly provide any details on the converstaion? Was the conversation as simply as "hey Mbao you coming back" and he stated "not too sure".
Did he insinuate that he wanted to leave or was being asked to leave...injury sitution...academic situation. carrer threatening sitution or anything.
appreciate the info and not to kill the messanger but a one sentance post like that begs many questions.
Appre
-
This has been apparent now for several months. I know there are those on this board who get blood pressure spikes over these types of rumors, but, college basketball is big time business.
Just step back and look at the obvious over the past 2 months. Is it really any shock that Yous may not be back, for whatever reason?
-
The biggest problem with the whole situation (not just Mbao, but coaches forcing players out in general) is that the player is punished and has to sit out a year for something that he could have had no say in. If athletic scholarships are indeed 1 year renewable scholarships, then there really needs to be a distinction made between players decision to transfer (sit out a year) and scholarship not renewed (free transfer).
-
Well, yes and no. Assuming the player lands another schollie elsewhere, he still is getting a free ride at a university and can practice, get his academics in order, etc.
If the athlete has pro potential, this is a non-issue since it's not likely that he gets creaned to begin with.
-
Are you sure he wasn't sad because he couldn't score that night? ;)
-
I'm guessing you were at the Sigma Chi party last night too huh? I shook hands with Yous when I walked by him. He honestl y didn't seem to be in a really good mood.
In Hoc
-
Buzz likes winners...not losers. if you are at a sigma chi party you are a loser.
-
Is there anybody starting to wonder about some of these guys (Mbao, if true, Roseboro, McMorrow, the Juco who has rape issues, etc.) not working out? Jury is still out on Otule.
Yeah, that Liam and his heart issue. What a bust. Buzz should have called three cardiologists before signing him.
How bout we think before we post?
-
+ 1
-
I would like to nominate mumike22 for the POTD award.
Well played Michael. Well played.
-
He would probably be the guy to go if we indeed do get another recruit.
-
This has been apparent now for several months. I know there are those on this board who get blood pressure spikes over these types of rumors, but, college basketball is big time business.
Just step back and look at the obvious over the past 2 months. Is it really any shock that Yous may not be back, for whatever reason?
Agreed. Besides, Mbao is clearly not BE material. He just has to small a frame. Great kid, just not right for the physical play of the conference.
-
I had a chat with MBOA last night and he was'nt too sure if he was coming back next year. So as everyone has speculated, MBAO indeed maybe the one to leave if another recruit in signed...
Can you be a little more descriptive?
-
This would be stunning since if only he added a few pounds he would be an all Big East player (ahem....another classic Mr. Hayward \ Canadian Dimes quote)
Hope it works out well for the young man if he leaves, but I'd say the landing of "stud" big men hasn't gotten any better under Buzz so far. Hopefully that will change, but as has always been stated, bigs are hard to find and you can't just go down to the local high school and pick them up.
-
The biggest problem with the whole situation (not just Mbao, but creaning in general) is that the player is punished and has to sit out a year for something that he could have had no say in. If athletic scholarships are indeed 1 year renewable scholarships, then there really needs to be a distinction made between players decision to transfer (sit out a year) and scholarship not renewed (free transfer).
So if this were to happen, is it still Creaning or does it become Buzzing? Or can we all grow up and accept that fact that this happens everywhere and happened long before Crean or Buzz came on campus at Marquette.
For the K.O. lovers, you guys should have seen what he did to John Leurck and a few other players.
-
Mbao needs time, a lot of time to develop. A true redshirt season would be the best thing for his development. That happens naturely if a transfer is in his future.
-
Mbao needs time, a lot of time to develop. A true redshirt season would be the best thing for his development. That happens naturely if a transfer is in his future.
Agreed. Yous needs a lot of time not only to develop hais skills and body. equally important is that he simply needs to learn how basketball is played. His lack of knowledge was painfully obvious when the coaches pointed out where he should stand guarding an inbounds play. He definitely needs a redhirt season and then continue to progress and hopefully contribute solidly as a redshirt junior/senior in his 4th and 5th seasons.
-
Mbao is gonna get Markolf-ed?
-
Agreed. Yous needs a lot of time not only to develop hais skills and body. equally important is that he simply needs to learn how basketball is played. His lack of knowledge was painfully obvious when the coaches pointed out where he should stand guarding an inbounds play. He definitely needs a redhirt season and then continue to progress and hopefully contribute solidly as a redshirt junior/senior in his 4th and 5th seasons.
Is it worth tying up a scholarship for another year so Mbao can be redshirted? Does he have that much of an upside?
-
Yeah, that Liam and his heart issue. What a bust. Buzz should have called three cardiologists before signing him.
How bout we think before we post?
I am thinking right now. I thought
this board is for opinions and dialogue and not slams. But you have the right to insult. By the way, since you missed the point of the post that we are not connecting on big men, maybe you did not engage the old brain before posting. Just asking. But I am sure that your IQ is superior.
-
Hope it works out well for the young man if he leaves, but I'd say the landing of "stud" big men hasn't gotten any better under Buzz so far. Hopefully that will change, but as has always been stated, bigs are hard to find and you can't just go down to the local high school and pick them up.
What has gotten better under Buzz is our ability to string together back to back nationally rated recruiting classes. And, lets not be too premature to jump to the conclusion that landing a stud big man isn't something Buzz is capable of doing, or might do - possibly this spring, or perhaps in the 2011 recruiting class.
-
Well, yes and no. Assuming the player lands another schollie elsewhere, he still is getting a free ride at a university and can practice, get his academics in order, etc.
If the athlete has pro potential, this is a non-issue since it's not likely that he gets creaned to begin with.
So punishing someone for a decision made by their coach that they weren't good enough only matters if the player has pro potential?
The player might not be thrust into the worst situation in the world, but it's still an unfair punishment put upon someone who doesn't deserve it.
-
So if this were to happen, is it still Creaning or does it become Buzzing? Or can we all grow up and accept that fact that this happens everywhere and happened long before Crean or Buzz came on campus at Marquette.
For the K.O. lovers, you guys should have seen what he did to John Leurck and a few other players.
Sorry, just using a term rather than typing out a long description. I wasn't even really thinking about it as I did it. Crean is obviously not the only coach to have done this. I should have known some would be sensitive to my statement. I certainly didn't mean for this whole thing to devolve into what everything here devolves into on my behalf.
In fact I modified my first post on the subject.
-
I am thinking right now. I thought
this board is for opinions and dialogue and not slams. But you have the right to insult. By the way, since you missed the point of the post that we are not connecting on big men, maybe you did not engage the old brain before posting. Just asking. But I am sure that your IQ is superior.
I get your point, but adding McMorrow to that group was dumb. That was beyond anyone's control. You can make reasonable arguments about the others being misses.
The kid has a heart condition for crying out loud. No amount of talent evaluation/screening/etc can forecast that.
-
So if this were to happen, is it still Creaning or does it become Buzzing? Or can we all grow up and accept that fact that this happens everywhere and happened long before Crean or Buzz came on campus at Marquette.
For the K.O. lovers, you guys should have seen what he did to John Leurck and a few other players.
No one brought up Crean. Then you bring him up twice. Do what I say not what I do much? Quit being such a hypocrite Chicos. It's getting really old.
-
No one brought up Crean. Then you bring him up twice. Do what I say not what I do much? Quit being such a hypocrite Chicos. It's getting really old.
Funny, you might want to go back and read the posts in this thread...I'm not sure how "Creaning" is NOT bringing him up, and that came up well before I chipped in any offering in this post. Please, feel free to start from post one of this thread. Thanks (here's a hint....TJ)
With love and kisses always....feel free to get on other folks, I'm sure you will. ::)
-
No one brought up Crean. Then you bring him up twice. Do what I say not what I do much? Quit being such a hypocrite Chicos. It's getting really old.
Yeah, totally the first person to bring up Crean in this thread, at least if you take away all the people that used the term Creaning before he did.
-
I'm not trying to sound like a douche, but I'm kind of hoping that Mbao decides to leave the program. He really doesn't seem like he has any idea what he is doing when he is on the court. I know he hasn't been playing basketball very long but I highly doubt he can develop into even a decent player. He was SO bad that in the combined 60 minutes he played last season he scored 1pt, and grabbed 7 rebounds, and he only attempted 1 shot from the field. That is PATHETIC. Also, is anyone else wondering how the hell this dude was playing on a professional team at one point???
-
So if this were to happen, is it still Creaning or does it become Buzzing? Or can we all grow up and accept that fact that this happens everywhere and happened long before Crean or Buzz came on campus at Marquette.
"Buzzcut" might be an alternative. :D
I seem to remember an awful lot of hand-wringing on the board over the years regarding the high number of transfers under Crean--hence the adoption of the term "creaning."
Yet under Buzz, the number of departures is running more than twice Crean's average.
If there was legitimate concern over the number of transfers under Crean, those same people ought to be screaming bloody murder right now. Their silence now speaks volumes.
-
I'm not trying to sound like a douche, but I'm kind of hoping that Mbao decides to leave the program.... is anyone else wondering how the hell this dude was playing on a professional team at one point???
You have failed at trying to not sound like a douche.
-
"Buzzcut" might be an alternative. :D
I seem to remember an awful lot of hand-wringing on the board over the years regarding the high number of transfers under Crean--hence the adoption of the term "creaning."
Yet under Buzz, the number of departures is running more than twice Crean's average.
If there was legitimate concern over the number of transfers under Crean, those same people ought to be screaming bloody murder right now. Their silence now speaks volumes.
I think your memory is incorrect...the hand wringing was over two facts. 1. the fact that Crean apart from about 6-7 players his last 6-7 years brought in a dozen or more players that had absolutely no business playing high major D1 ball then they would turnover at a very high rate and Mu was perpetually young becuase of it. Then Crean would use the "were young excuse" all day long. 2. Crean had alot of good players that we actually wanted leave and good assitants. When you are not signing many good players and then some good ones leaveit makes things tough on the fans
So far Buzz has had the 12th man or so not come back in Roseboro and HAzel and Mbao if true. Different story than ODb and MAson
-
Buzz didn't recruit Hazel.
-
I think your memory is incorrect...the hand wringing was over two facts. 1. the fact that Crean apart from about 6-7 players his last 6-7 years brought in a dozen or more players that had absolutely no business playing high major D1 ball then they would turnover at a very high rate and Mu was perpetually young becuase of it. Then Crean would use the "were young excuse" all day long. 2. Crean had alot of good players that we actually wanted and goos assitants. When you are not signing many good players and then some good ones leaveit makes things tough on the fans
So far Buzz has had the 12th man or so not come back in Roseboro and HAzel and Mbao if true. Different story than ODb and MAson
Ahh, our Mr Hayward has changed his tune. In the old days (say last month), it was that these players had NO BUSINESS PLAYING DI...they weren't DI players. Now, it's that they aren't HIGH MAJOR DI players (like Roseboro or Mbao... ::) ). It's funny to watch you change your tune.
Good to see the spelling is still a disaster regardless of what username you have.
Now, back to your argument...how did Mason do after he left MU? For ODB, was that Crean's fault or ODB's handlers? ODB will tell you it was his handlers, nevertheless we got to a Final Four the next year. Hope Buzz can pull that off some day, that would be killer fun.
And now you're dissing Mbao? YOU? The same Mr. Hayward that stood tall here to tell us if he added just 25 lbs or so he would be all Big East. Now you turn on him. Tsk tsk, shame shame.
-
ODB will tell you it was his handlers, nevertheless we got to a Final Four the next year.
This is a load of crap. When did Blankson EVER say this? Just because you have formed this opinion, does not make it true. He may have regretted not being part of the FF run, but he had a nice last couple years at UNLV.
How often will Buzz lose starters like Blankson and Mason to transfer? I'm going to wager that that will not happen anytime soon. For chrissakes, Mason was one of Crean's most highly touted recruits. It doesn't matter at all what he did after he left. The kid was a starter...or at least playing starters minutes...and he still decided he'd rather live in Baton Rouge than play for a horse' ass. Crean is still losing starters...including former MU recruit Nick Williams last year.
I don't know why you keep defending transfers under Crean. It's obvious that one of the main reasons for leaving for many of these players is because Crean is a douche bag. You've admitted as much. Why keep defending him when you admit he's an assh*le? That's what I don't get.
-
I would like to nominate mumike22 for the POTD award.
Well played Michael. Well played.
+1
-
I had a chat with MBOA last night and he was'nt too sure if he was coming back next year. So as everyone has speculated, MBAO indeed maybe the one to leave if another recruit in signed...
Can you please elaborate on your post?
Was he saying "I don't think I want to be on the team next year, so I may not be coming back"?
Or was he saying "I don't think I will be allowed to be on the team next year, so I may not be coming back"?
Thank you.
-
Three things:
1. Chicos we get it, you believe Mr. Hayward changed his name or signed up for a new account. Frankly , I'm not sure that really bothers me. It seems to bother you as it dominates many of your posts.
2. Why as a collective fan base, do we consistently misspell Mbao's name?
3. I cannot wait for the signing period to be over so we can discuss who is on the team and next year's lineup rather than guessing and judging people who may or may not be on the team.
-
I agree with PRN when we start losing starters and team captains and players that will be gretly counted on to play big roles the following year under Buzz hten I will begin to have the same problem with Buzz that I had with Crean. 99% of kids transferr due to playing time that was not and continues to not be the case with Crean. i had a problem with it becuase his Jack Assishness was hurting the MU program. I hope it continues for him at Iu as it did last year.
I have no problem when the Menards or the Hazels leave a program they simply were not cut out for this level both the coach and the player gave it a try and it did not work out. They usually have the choice to stay and finish their degree, most choose to do what they love and play basketball at a level whereby they can actullay get playing time.
-
I don't know why so many people are getting on Yous in this thread. Sure he didn't show a ton, but as with most big guys, it takes them a little while. Our problem is we don't have the upperclass big man to take pressure off the young guys and allow them time to develop. We have a soph and a freshman as our only height. I think Yous has a lot of potential and hope he stays. He is very fast and seems to have good hands. Get a little meat on him and I think he could be pretty good as a junior and could be a huge asset his senior year.
-
3. I cannot wait for the signing period to be over so we can discuss who is on the team and next year's lineup rather than guessing and judging people who may or may not be on the team.
If I remember correctly, there's no rule that says that you have to announce a departure from the team to oversign. So, while I share your optimism that this will all be cleared up within about 2 weeks, it's also possible that we oversign and don't find out until much later who's out.
-
I'd be OK with Mbao staying. He's got potential. About the physically fastest and quickest 7-footer I've ever seen. (Yes, I realize he'll lose some of that bulking up.) I also wondered what kind of professional team he was playing on - are they sure it as basketball?
-
Three things:
2. Why as a collective fan base, do we consistently misspell Mbao's name?
3. I cannot wait for the signing period to be over so we can discuss who is on the team and next year's lineup rather than guessing and judging people who may or may not be on the team.
+1
-
I don't know why so many people are getting on Yous in this thread. Sure he didn't show a ton, but as with most big guys, it takes them a little while. Our problem is we don't have the upperclass big man to take pressure off the young guys and allow them time to develop. We have a soph and a freshman as our only height. I think Yous has a lot of potential and hope he stays. He is very fast and seems to have good hands. Get a little meat on him and I think he could be pretty good as a junior and could be a huge asset his senior year.
+1000
cheebs i absolutely agree with you. I love the kids athleticism and obviously his heighth. peopl are way too hard on him and are making way too early of ajudgemnt ...in fact it is an ignorant judgement. Our issue is when Buzz took over we had no upperclassmen with size and it exposes these not yet ready for primetime guys. Wisconsin would have redshirted Yous and Otule becuase they would have had a Junior and Senior getting all the minutes at the 5. heck the reason Buzz could not redshirt Yous was becuase he knew he would probabbly need him.
-
today is yous' bday.
I hope he doesn't read these boards :(
happy bday big guy
-
"Buzzcut" might be an alternative. :D
I seem to remember an awful lot of hand-wringing on the board over the years regarding the high number of transfers under Crean--hence the adoption of the term "creaning."
Yet under Buzz, the number of departures is running more than twice Crean's average.
If there was legitimate concern over the number of transfers under Crean, those same people ought to be screaming bloody murder right now. Their silence now speaks volumes.
Can you illustrate how the number of departures under Buzz is running more than twice Crean's average? So far we have Maymon and Roseboro - with Maymon likely transferring only due to his delusional father, and Roseboro pretty much came to the conclusion that he was way overmatched at the MU level. Please don't tell me you are going to throw Hazel in the mix, as he was pretty much dismissed for his off-court transgression. I also wouldn't think you would throw Mbawke, Taylor, NIck Williams, or Scott C in the mix.
-
Mbao moves as well or better than any seven footer I've seen in college. He runs the floor really well. He projects to be much better than Osmane Barro, in my opinion. But, he needs at least 2 more years, with one being a redshirt. That would allow him two productive years, maybe one productive year. But he could be a game changer, so he is worth the risk in my opinion. He won't be a 270 pounder, but could be a strong 240 pounder who can move. Strong and 240 and able to move, will allow him to play well in the Big East and be a game changer. He already has good hands and a little jumper - some big men can never develop these things - he's already got them. He could guard many positions on the floor and once stonger would be a killer in a 1-3-1 zone on the base line, or just let him play the lane on defense and swat shots away.
What I don't know is the following: Is he busting his butt and hitting it hard, making full effort? It will take this for him to improve. If he isn't up to it, then it is a different matter. Is he doing okay in the classroom. I assume so, but again, if the effort isn't there, then this is another matter.
So, if he is making the effort on the court and in the classroom, I like his future. If he isn't working hard, then it may not be a good fit.
I hate to speculate about what I don't know, so I'll assume that he is busting butt on and off the court and hope he stays.
-
I think your memory is incorrect...the hand wringing was over two facts. 1. the fact that Crean apart from about 6-7 players his last 6-7 years brought in a dozen or more players that had absolutely no business playing high major D1 ball then they would turnover at a very high rate and Mu was perpetually young becuase of it. Then Crean would use the "were young excuse" all day long. 2. Crean had alot of good players that we actually wanted leave and good assitants. When you are not signing many good players and then some good ones leaveit makes things tough on the fans
So far Buzz has had the 12th man or so not come back in Roseboro and HAzel and Mbao if true. Different story than ODb and MAson
You cherry pick the two best players that left over nine years of Crean and then compare to worst players that left Buzz? I know you're biased, but not even you could believe anyone would accept that as a fair comparison
Here's the more reasonable comparision:
Losing ODB and Mason is comparable to losing Mbakwe and Maymon.
Losing Amo or Christian is comparable to losing Christopherson or Hazel.
Losing Saunders is comparable to losing Clark.
Losing Hester and Menard is comparable to losing Roseboro or Mbao.
Both Crean and Buzz lost the same type of players from the top through the bottom of the roster.
The difference is that Crean saw 13 players/recruits leave the program over 9 years (1.4 per season). Buzz has had 9 (if we include Acker, who he begged back) in two seasons (4.5). Even if we exclude Acker, the rate of departures is almost three times the rate under Crean.
I'm also surprised you now call Mbao a "12th man" given this statement:
I love the kids athleticism and obviously his heighth. peopl are way too hard on him and are making way too early of ajudgemnt ...in fact it is an ignorant judgement.
So which is he? A future All-Big-East player? Or a 12th man? Sounds like you want to play both ways on this one.
-
I wouldn't count any player who left due to the coaching change (so I'd take out Mbakwe and Christopherson; but Mbakwe was supposed to be leaving and then when Crean left we thought he was going to stay, so who knows who Mbakwe should fall under).
Clark was never on the team and never signed a LOI. No one to compare this to except some player that orally commited but then didn't come.
Hazal was for other reasons - maybe like Amo and Mortenson under Crean?
There is always change when a new coach comes in, and since Buzz had to cobble a team together and get players from all over, I'd give him some slack for the first couple of seasons. Lots of changes and lots of new faces.
-
You cherry pick the two best players that left over nine years of Crean and then compare to worst players that left Buzz? I know you're biased, but not even you could believe anyone would accept that as a fair comparison
Here's the more reasonable comparision:
Losing ODB and Mason is comparable to losing Mbakwe and Maymon.
Losing Amo or Christian is comparable to losing Christopherson or Hazel.
Losing Saunders is comparable to losing Clark.
Losing Hester and Menard is comparable to losing Roseboro or Mbao.
Both Crean and Buzz lost the same type of players from the top through the bottom of the roster.
The difference is that Crean saw 13 players/recruits leave the program over 9 years (1.4 per season). Buzz has had 9 (if we include Acker, who he begged back) in two seasons (4.5). Even if we exclude Acker, the rate of departures is almost three times the rate under Crean.
I'm also surprised you now call Mbao a "12th man" given this statement:
So which is he? A future All-Big-East player? Or a 12th man? Sounds like you want to play both ways on this one.
You've pretty much just diminished your credibility with this post regarding transfers under Buzz/Crean. Buzz has 2 of his "own" recruits transfer thus far - Maymon and Roseboro. To try to say Buzz is either at fault or responsible for the transfers of Taylor, Williams, Mbawke, Chistopherson, Hazel - is ridiculous. Even the Acker issue - you are aware that he too was basically put on probation/off the team for his transgression, correct? To bring Acker's case into the argument (and Monterale Clark) who's never been on campus - just shows how biased you are against Buzz - and your continued defense of Tom Crean.
Please don't try to say Buzz has had 9 players leave in 2 seasons - and that he begged Acker back. Buzz has basically 2 departures that you can put on him in his 2 years - Maymon and Roseboro. Period.
-
Marquette84, are you talking about Monterale Clark? That's not one Buzz lost, that's a guy whose offer was rescinded by Marquette when he was charged with felony sexual assault:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/59569142.html
-
Just curious because I wasn't really following the team at that point, but was there a lot of turnover when Crean first took the job? Did recruits back out of their verbals when he was hired?
-
You cherry pick the two best players that left over nine years of Crean and then compare to worst players that left Buzz? I know you're biased, but not even you could believe anyone would accept that as a fair comparison
The irony in your entire post is amazing.
You two are both the most biased people on this board.
by a LONG shot.
-
Just curious because I wasn't really following the team at that point, but was there a lot of turnover when Crean first took the job? Did recruits back out of their verbals when he was hired?
There weren't any recruits to back out.
Deane only had one player coming in, Krunti Hester. Crean honored his signing, and Krunti came here for his first year. Once here, Crean told him he wouldn't ever see more than garbage minutes, so Krunti decided to leave and ended up transferring to Lamar to play for Deane....where he didn't see much time.
Everyone else who left after that was one of Crean's guys.
-
A redshirt for Mbao would work wonders. U want a great example of how using the redshirt for a year is great for a player look at Jamine Peterson of Providence. He couldnt learn the plays and was redshirted for a year, and bulked up and everyone knows how good his numbers were this year. I don't want Mbao to leave you can't teach height
-
There weren't any recruits to back out.
Deane only had one player coming in, Krunti Hester. Crean honored his signing, and Krunti came here for his first year. Once here, Crean told him he wouldn't ever see more than garbage minutes, so Krunti decided to leave and ended up transferring to Lamar to play for Deane....where he didn't see much time.
Everyone else who left after that was one of Crean's guys.
Thanks for the info. I feel that it is not surprising people would back out when Crean left and Buzz should not be blamed at all. Crean established himself here for 9 years and had some success. He also had 3 players in the NBA at the point when he left. Very good players are going to come and want to play for him, and play at MU because of him. So when he is no longer here, and a new coach comes in, of course people are going to transfer. 4 star players are going to have other options of places to play right away, and if the coach they committed to is going to leave, they will have plenty of places to go. By the sounds of it, Hester wasn't having his door getting beaten down with offers to come in and get good minutes.
-
Can you illustrate how the number of departures under Buzz is running more than twice Crean's average? So far we have Maymon and Roseboro - with Maymon likely transferring only due to his delusional father, and Roseboro pretty much came to the conclusion that he was way overmatched at the MU level. Please don't tell me you are going to throw Hazel in the mix, as he was pretty much dismissed for his off-court transgression. I also wouldn't think you would throw Mbawke, Taylor, NIck Williams, or Scott C in the mix.
First, I don't include Nick Williams or Tyshawn Taylor. The story for Buzz is bad enough without including those players.
Second, I don't delve into extenuating circumstances. Crean never got a pass for such circumstances--why should Buzz?
You bring up Roseboro saying we shouldn't count him because he felt he was mismatched. What do you call Menard? Or Hester? or Howard?
You bring up Maymon's father. Fine, then give Crean a pass for ODB's handlers. Both players left based largely on external influences telling the player they were being misused and their chances at NBA success are greater if they transfer.
I don't buy your excuse on Hazel either. Crean got digned for transfers by players with off court transgressions (Bell, J. Matthews, Mortenson), so I see no reason to give Buzz a pass on Hazel.
I also don't see much of a difference between Clark and Saunders. Both never made it to campus based on their pre-arrival arrest record.
I'm including the reneged commitment of Bowen--I cannot any under Crean where a verbally committed recruit backed away. If you can remember one, I'll add him to the list.
Finally, I include Acker on Buzz's list. He was dismissed and only re-invited because of the season-ending injury to Cadougan.
So here's the list.
Buzz: 2 years, 9 departures, 4.5 per season:
1. Christopherson
2. Mbakwe
3. Roseboro
4. Maymon
5. Acker (later reinstated)
6. Clark (recruited/never played)
7. Bowen (backed out of commitment)
8. Hazel
9. Rumored Departure to make room for the "Mystery Recruit"
Crean - 9 years, 13 departures, 1.4 per season.
1. Hester
2. Menard
3. Howard
4. ODB
5. James Matthews (recruited/never played)
6. Mason
7. Bradley
8. Bell
9. Mortenson (recruited/never played)
10. Christian
11. Berkowitz
12. Amo
13. Saunders (recruited/never played)
-
There weren't any recruits to back out.
Deane only had one player coming in, Krunti Hester. Crean honored his signing, and Krunti came here for his first year. Once here, Crean told him he wouldn't ever see more than garbage minutes, so Krunti decided to leave and ended up transferring to Lamar to play for Deane....where he didn't see much time.
Everyone else who left after that was one of Crean's guys.
WHAT ARE YOU?! Some kind of all-knowing college basketball cyborg?
I have a message board mancrush on bma725, and I don't care what you think about that.
Anyways...
I hope Mbao stays and develops into a monster. I don't know what's going on with the roster, but I remember a tiny rumor about Reggie Smith possibly not qualifying or something...I don't know. I have no idea what's going on with the roster, and I'm eager as everyone else to hopefully find out soon.
If we are bringing in someone, though, and it's at Mbao's expense, he better be a BEAST. (I'm not talkin' Brett Roseboro-beast neither.)
-
If you want to win, you do what you have to do. IMO it doesn't matter who leaves it's who we have on the floor and if they win I think everyone should be content with that. Let's drop the worries of hurting these guys feelings because then were saying that we should keep players that just are awful. Roseboro, as evidenced by his performance at St. Bonaventure was no loss. If we win im happy
-
Finally, I include Acker on Buzz's list. He was dismissed and only re-invited because of the season-ending injury to Cadougan.
Seriously, how many times do people have to remind you that Acker didn't come back because of the injury to Cadougan before you stop stating it like it's an absolute fact.
Mo came back to the team on August 30th. Junior got injured September 17th. Unless you think Mo is a f'n pyschic, he did not come back because of the injury.
-
Buzz: 2 years, 9 departures, 4.5 per season:
1. Christopherson
2. Mbakwe
3. Roseboro
4. Maymon
5. Acker (later reinstated)
6. Clark (recruited/never played)
7. Bowen (backed out of commitment)
8. Hazel
9. Mbao
He hasn't transferred yet.
-
You cherry pick the two best players that left over nine years of Crean and then compare to worst players that left Buzz? I know you're biased, but not even you could believe anyone would accept that as a fair comparison
Here's the more reasonable comparision:
Losing ODB and Mason is comparable to losing Mbakwe and Maymon.
Losing Amo or Christian is comparable to losing Christopherson or Hazel.
Losing Saunders is comparable to losing Clark.
Losing Hester and Menard is comparable to losing Roseboro or Mbao.
Both Crean and Buzz lost the same type of players from the top through the bottom of the roster.
The difference is that Crean saw 13 players/recruits leave the program over 9 years (1.4 per season). Buzz has had 9 (if we include Acker, who he begged back) in two seasons (4.5). Even if we exclude Acker, the rate of departures is almost three times the rate under Crean.
I'm also surprised you now call Mbao a "12th man" given this statement:
So which is he? A future All-Big-East player? Or a 12th man? Sounds like you want to play both ways on this one.
wow i think your lust louds your judgemtn. Forget the names. My issue with Crean was twoo fold. 1. he brought in 2-3 terrible players for every good one. causing us to always be incredibly thin. 2. I did not have ahuge problem with his transfers except that with Crean they were in a number of cases starters, team captains, players that were to be heavily counted on.
None of those issues pertain to Buzz at this point. If buzz signes 2-3 one and 2 star players a year that prove to be way over their head and then leave or dont leave and leave us with 5-6-7 BE caliber players and in addition to this if he has a number of those good players also transfer then I will have a problem with Buzz like I did with Crean in this area.
I do think MBoa will be a decent player over time. but that is my opinion if Buzz looks at it a MBAo has reached a celing or will never get any better and gleans his 12-13th man then that is Buzzes perogative. What cant you understand about that? Mabe Mbao does not work hard? Maybe Mbao is not the odd man out if he brings someone else in? there are a million different things that could happen. But until Buzz has two returning starters that have been named team captain transfer out I will not compare him to Crean. Also, Buzzes 1 and 2 star recruits have heretofore proven to be vastly underated by the gurus. creans 1 and 2 star recruits were dead on nailed. Showing one of two things either Crean has zero eye for talent or he cannot attract btter players. Two great reasons for him to no longer be coaching at MU ...not matter how your lust for him clouds your judgement
-
The irony in your entire post is amazing.
You two are both the most biased people on this board.
by a LONG shot.
How am I biased?
Please, specific examples.
Marquette84, are you talking about Monterale Clark? That's not one Buzz lost, that's a guy whose offer was rescinded by Marquette when he was charged with felony sexual assault:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/59569142.html
Yes. Same guy.
As I said, comparable to situation with Saunders.
Two players. Both arrested. Neither ever plays for MU.
I won't argue with you that Clark was arrested for a more serious crime. I'm not going to debate whether its okay for our recruits to be arrested for drug possession but we draw the line at sexual assault.
I'm happy to take Clark off Buzz's list, but then we have to take Saunders off Crean's list of transfers.
Seriously, how many times do people have to remind you that Acker didn't come back because of the injury to Cadougan before you stop stating it like it's an absolute fact.
Mo came back to the team on August 30th. Junior got injured September 17th. Unless you think Mo is a f'n pyschic, he did not come back because of the injury.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
But it doesn't really affect the comparison--regardless of the reason he came back, he still left the team.
-
Seriously, how many times do people have to remind you that Acker didn't come back because of the injury to Cadougan before you stop stating it like it's an absolute fact.
Mo came back to the team on August 30th. Junior got injured September 17th. Unless you think Mo is a f'n pyschic, he did not come back because of the injury.
BMA, Acker is a good friend of Miss Cleo, thought you knew that.
Love how 84 includes Bowen and Clark as departures. Doesn't one have to arrive first, in order to depart?
-
It will be very disappointing if Mbao leaves. Regardless of how you can explain away individual situations, Buzz will get a reputation for not being able to develop big men and not showing commitment to "project" type post players.
The Maymon, Clark, Mbakwe, Hazel and Roseboro situations were embarrassing any way you cut it. I don't necessarily blame Buzz for each one but the headline is still that another big man has left the program. I don't know the circumstances but if we add Mbao to the list that just adds to the problem, especially since we do not have anyone on the roster with a similar skill set and he has been viewed as a project since the day he arrived.
Most seven footers simply take time to develop into productive players. Some programs demonstrate the ability to develop them and some don't. Look at UConn. How many 6-10+ players have gone there and contributed almost nothing for two or three years only to be extremely productive as seniors? Gavin Edwards is the perfect example.
-
Comparing Clark and Bowen, two guys who never stepped foot on campus, with Matthews and Mortenson, two guys who made it to campus only to be dismissed for off-court reasons is disingenuous at best. If a non-basketball playing high school senior who wants to go to MU changes his mind or commits a crime that precludes him from coming to MU, it is different than a freshman at MU committing a crime or dropping out. And counting Acker as a departure, seeing how he started and played 35 minutes is cuckoo. Or, as BMA stated, Mo was psychic, much like you must be projecting a transfer that hasn't yet and may never happen (Mbao). Roseboro and Saunders, I will give you, though it has been hinted many places that Saunders couldn't be admitted. So, Hazel, Christopherson, Mbakwe, Roseboro, Maymon. Who did Buzz run off? Maymon, err, no. Hazel, maybe. Roseboro, depends on whether you believer Buzz and Roseboro, or if you believe Roseboro's coach and the badger fans. SC, maybe, though I think it was more about being a fan of TC rather than Buzz running him off. Mbakwe, it wasn't Buzz. Pretty sure Buzz would have like to keep a physical PF
-
Buzz: 2 years, 9 departures, 4.5 per season:
1. Christopherson2. Mbakwe3. Roseboro
4. Maymon
5. Acker (later reinstated)
6. Clark (recruited/never played)
7. Bowen (backed out of commitment)
8. Hazel
9. Mbao
Crean - 9 years, 13 departures, 1.4 per season.
1. Hester
2. Menard
3. Howard
4. ODB
5. James Matthews (recruited/never played)
6. Mason
7. Bradley
8. Bell
9. Mortenson (recruited/never played)
10. Christian
11. Berkowitz
12. Amo
13. Saunders (recruited/never played)
Sorry, but your list for Buzz transfers is filled with desperation grabs - as opposed to actual, hard facts on the Crean list. All those colored in Red above are reaches - and not Buzz recruits - other than Clark/Bowen who never made it to campus, never signed LOI's. Bowen was recruited over with the Jamail Jones signing, and Bowen chose to look elsewhere. Hazel played a decent amount in the first half of the 2008-2009 season, and played decently, but then never saw another minute on the floor for all of Big East play - you don't think something happened of a disciplinary reason?? Buzz didn't ruin the guys future college career, but he clearly disciplined the kid significantly, by not playing him anymore and essentially requiring him to transfer. Why put Acker on your list?? Acker didn't transfer. As has been pointed out - why say Acker only was asked back after the Cadougan injury - when Mo came back well before the Cadougan injury.
It is so transparent that you have an agenda against Buzz, or at very least a very rose-colored vision of Tom Crean - and to see TC not reflect as well against Buzz is too much for you to handle, and therefore you resort to flawed logic/reason. I personally don't have much of an issue with the transfers under TC - stuff happens, and it always takes two to tango - the fault of a transfer is rarely just a 1-sided issue. I just take issue to the fact you are trying to paint Buzz in an inaccurate way. The transfer of players he inherited or who were Tom Crean recruits have no business being counted - they don't count inherited runners against a pitchers ERA (if they score after a new pitcher comes in the game). Same concept here.
-
Comparing Clark and Bowen, two guys who never stepped foot on campus, with Matthews and Mortenson, two guys who made it to campus only to be dismissed for off-court reasons is disingenuous at best.
I don't think I made the comparison of Clark and Bowen to Matthews and Mortenson other than to point out that none of them played for the program.
--I directly compared Hazel to Matthews, Bell and Mortenson.
--I directly compared Clark to Saunders
--I made the comment that I don't recall any Crean recruits who reneged on a verbal.
If a non-basketball playing high school senior who wants to go to MU changes his mind or commits a crime that precludes him from coming to MU, it is different than a freshman at MU committing a crime or dropping out.
You are correct.
My point is that when Crean was coaching, the situations like Saunders were used to highlight Crean's "transfer problem"
I'm happy if we exclude them--but we have to do so similarly for both coaches.
Its not fair to give Buzz a pass for Clark, but blame Crean for losing Saunders.
And counting Acker as a departure, seeing how he started and played 35 minutes is cuckoo.
Maybe you missed the news:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/49105126.html
(http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/49105126.html)
Roseboro and Saunders, I will give you, though it has been hinted many places that Saunders couldn't be admitted. So, Hazel, Christopherson, Mbakwe, Roseboro, Maymon. Who did Buzz run off? Maymon, err, no. Hazel, maybe. Roseboro, depends on whether you believer Buzz and Roseboro, or if you believe Roseboro's coach and the badger fans. SC, maybe, though I think it was more about being a fan of TC rather than Buzz running him off. Mbakwe, it wasn't Buzz. Pretty sure Buzz would have like to keep a physical PF
We could go through the same exercise with Crean's recruits. I'm not going there.
My point is this: People on this board cited the sheer number of transfers to accuse Crean of having a "transfer problem"--they never went player by player and attempted to determine which players had outside influence, which players had offcourt issues, and which players simply wanted to transfer.
Those same people are either silent about it today or they are defending Buzz.
-
If Mbao wasn't gonna transfer before, he will after he reads all this. jesus, just kill this thread.
-
+1 the internet anonymity lets people say things they otherwise never would and it can start to go downhill quickly.
-
Buzz: 2 years, 9 departures, 4.5 per season:
1. Christopherson
2. Mbakwe
3. Roseboro
4. Maymon
5. Acker (later reinstated)
6. Clark (recruited/never played)
7. Bowen (backed out of commitment)
8. Hazel
9. Mbao
Crean - 9 years, 13 departures, 1.4 per season.
1. Hester
2. Menard
3. Howard
4. ODB
5. James Matthews (recruited/never played)
6. Mason
7. Bradley
8. Bell
9. Mortenson (recruited/never played)
10. Christian
11. Berkowitz
12. Amo
13. Saunders (recruited/never played)
Wait ... so guys who never actually left Marquette (Acker, Mbao ... at least for now) or ever even signed LOIs (Bowen, Clark) now count as departures?
That seems fair and accurate.
But if that's your standard, why no mention of Anthony Green? Surely he was a Tom Crean departure, right?
Speaking of fair and accurate, Mortensen and Matthews were a little more than recruited/never played. Both, in fact, signed LOIs, attended classes at Marquette and appeared in games for Marquette wearing a Marquette uniform (Mortensen in practice games, but still ...).
-
How am I biased?
Please, specific examples.
Your posts speak for themselves. You cherry pick just as much as Hayward. You are changing the argument to fit your agenda.
Buzz: 2 years, 3 departures, 1.5 per season:
1. Roseboro
2. Maymon
3. Hazel
Crean - 9 years, 11 departures, 1.2 per season.
1. Hester
2. Menard
3. Howard
4. ODB
5. Mason
6. Bradley
7. Bell
8. Christian
9. Berkowitz
10. Amoroso
11. Matthews
I edited your list for REALITY. You are naming players Buzz "lost" who never were even officially on the team!!! But that isn't biased? LOL.
Mbakwe and Christopherson were obviously gone the day Buzz signed on. Adding them to the list is disingeniuos at best.
The problem is, both of the lists were too long. Including players who never stepped foot on campus doesn't make sense. Did they ever play? No. Were they ever photographed in a uniform even? No. Did they practice with the team? No! So how could they 'leave' if they were never at MU to begin with?
-
Sorry, but your list for Buzz transfers is filled with desperation grabs - as opposed to actual, hard facts on the Crean list. All those colored in Red above are reaches - and not Buzz recruits - other than Clark/Bowen who never made it to campus, never signed LOI's. Bowen was recruited over with the Jamail Jones signing, and Bowen chose to look elsewhere. Hazel played a decent amount in the first half of the 2008-2009 season, and played decently, but then never saw another minute on the floor for all of Big East play - you don't think something happened of a disciplinary reason?? Buzz didn't ruin the guys future college career, but he clearly disciplined the kid significantly, by not playing him anymore and essentially requiring him to transfer. Why put Acker on your list?? Acker didn't transfer. As has been pointed out - why say Acker only was asked back after the Cadougan injury - when Mo came back well before the Cadougan injury.
I took a very simply approach:
Did a recruit fufill his eligiblity or not?
You accuse me of an agenda, but clearly YOU want to set different standards. Mortenson is an "actual, hard facts" against Crean, but Buzz gets a pass on Hazel? Come on. That's not even within the realm of reasonableness. Mortenson couldn't play based on the NCAA rules--Hazel could have been forgiven and returned.
Ditto with Hester-- a "actual, hard fact" against Crean, but Christopherson and Mbakwe are no fault of Buzz? Come on--what is the difference? All were players inherited from the prior coach.
It is so transparent that you have an agenda against Buzz, or at very least a very rose-colored vision of Tom Crean - and to see TC not reflect as well against Buzz is too much for you to handle, and therefore you resort to flawed logic/reason. I personally don't have much of an issue with the transfers under TC - stuff happens, and it always takes two to tango - the fault of a transfer is rarely just a 1-sided issue. I just take issue to the fact you are trying to paint Buzz in an inaccurate way. The transfer of players he inherited or who were Tom Crean recruits have no business being counted - they don't count inherited runners against a pitchers ERA (if they score after a new pitcher comes in the game). Same concept here.
My problem is your double standard. You didn't put Hester in red, did you? You didn't put Mortenson, Matthews or Bell in red. You didn't put Saunders in red.
Why not? Don't they have good excuses?
And yet, YOU accuse ME of having an agenda.
If you had come out and made changes on both coaches lists--ie you don't think players inherited from another coach should count--then I might inclined to think that you wanted a fair comparison and based it on principle. But you very clearly simply made excuses for anyone who left under Buzz, and continued to blame Crean for players who left under very similar circumstances.
-
Question: This debate over Crean's losses and Buzz's losses have me wondering where do they fit into the bigger picture? How do they compare to other WI coaches/BE coaches/B11 coaches?
Just seems like this debate is all over nothing if other coaches lose equal or more recruits
-
I took a very simply approach:
Did a recruit fufill his eligiblity or not?
In that case, you better add Dwyane Wade to your list.
So far we're up to two names you conveniently left off.
-
Mbakwe and Christopherson were obviously gone the day Buzz signed on. Adding them to the list is disingeniuos at best.
We'll disagree on this point.
Christopherson didn't announce he was leaving until after Buzz was hired. Awfully coincidental--he could have made the announcement April 1st or 2nd, when everyone was being asked about their future plans. He could have said "I don't plan on returning anyway, so Crean's new job doesn't affect me at all." That didn't happen. He was obviously waiting until he saw who the new coach was. When it was Buzz, he left.
Mbakwe didn't leave until the day before classes started. Five months is a long time for an "obviously gone" player to stick around.
Including players who never stepped foot on campus doesn't make sense. Did they ever play? No. Were they ever photographed in a uniform even? No. Did they practice with the team? No! So how could they 'leave' if they were never at MU to begin with?
That's a reasonable argument.
I think the counter is reasonable as well.
Here's why I included such players, which I hope you'll at least grant has some merit:
1. An incoming recruit--verbal or signed--occupies one of a limited number of available scholarships. Two negative consequences--a) the coaching staff may have backed off recruiting for another player thinking they have a verbal in hand. b) other players that would have committed to you go elsewhere thinking they won't get playing time.
Its a reasonable argument that Clark's commitment a year and a half early precluded Buzz from getting serious with some other recruits. Therefore his loss affects the team even though he didn't make it onto the formal roster.
2. Losing a verbal commitment IS considered a loss by the team. Just ask UW fans about Vander Blue. Or MU fans about Ladaryl Billingsley. Those players never suited up, played a game or appeared in the team photo. Yet MU and UW fans will tell you that their teams lost those players.
-
If Mbao wasn't gonna transfer before, he will after he reads all this. jesus, just kill this thread.
+100 agree totally. I had class with Yous last semester and he was there every day, sitting front row (made it tough for some of us to see at times haha), and as far as I could tell always turned in our homework. He seemed like a really nice guy. In some of the videos we saw he seemed to have a good relationship with teammates. Some people seem to be cheering for a transfer but remember Otule looked lost out there his freshman year. Who was our most improved player going into this year by coach's and player's opinions? Many said Otule. People are penciling him in as a starter next year. I think a redshirt would have been beneficial to Yous, if for not for basketball reasons but just so he could adjust. I don't think he has been in America for more than a few years. Either way I hope people will let it play out and I hope he stay because I still have high hopes for him.
-
Maybe some of these kids transferred because they were afraid a conversation they had at the Sigma Chi party would find its way onto a message board. I reiterate, just kill this thread. It is embarrassing.
-
In that case, you better add Dwyane Wade to your list.
So far we're up to two names you conveniently left off.
You're correct.
So I'll adjust the tally:
Crean--15 players/recruits over 9 years - 1.6 per year
Buzz-- 9 players in 2 years--4.5 per year.
I appreciate your corrections.
BTW, there was nothing convenient about it. I would be extremely pleased if Buzz recruits players like Dwyane Wade.
Although to be fair, nobody used Wade as example of Crean's "transfer problem" either.
-
This is a load of crap. When did Blankson EVER say this? Just because you have formed this opinion, does not make it true. He may have regretted not being part of the FF run, but he had a nice last couple years at UNLV.
How often will Buzz lose starters like Blankson and Mason to transfer? I'm going to wager that that will not happen anytime soon. For chrissakes, Mason was one of Crean's most highly touted recruits. It doesn't matter at all what he did after he left. The kid was a starter...or at least playing starters minutes...and he still decided he'd rather live in Baton Rouge than play for a horse' ass. Crean is still losing starters...including former MU recruit Nick Williams last year.
I don't know why you keep defending transfers under Crean. It's obvious that one of the main reasons for leaving for many of these players is because Crean is a douche bag. You've admitted as much. Why keep defending him when you admit he's an assh*le? That's what I don't get.
PRN, ODB wanted to be featured as an outside player. That's why he transferred. He became an "outside player" at UNLV, where he chucked the ball up at an alarming rate. It got him...nowhere. Not to the NBA, no Final Four appearance. I've heard through many an internal source that he regrets it. He regrets not playing with Wade, he regrets transferring and missing out on what he did.
Mason....as I asked before, how did that work out for him? He got WORSE after his transfer, not better.
Some of these kids think they are NBA bound, but when reality sets in and they realize they aren't, they leave. You can blame the coach....I blame both. Kids with incredibly high and ridiculous expectations and coaches telling them during the recruiting process that they will be the next Michael Jordan.
Believe what you want, that's what I have heard and I trust those sources at a high level.
-
Three things:
1. Chicos we get it, you believe Mr. Hayward changed his name or signed up for a new account. Frankly , I'm not sure that really bothers me. It seems to bother you as it dominates many of your posts.
2. Why as a collective fan base, do we consistently misspell Mbao's name?
3. I cannot wait for the signing period to be over so we can discuss who is on the team and next year's lineup rather than guessing and judging people who may or may not be on the team.
1) It has nothing to do with "believing it"....it's the same IP address.
2) When a guy tells you to go unnatural carnal knowledge off multiple times in private emails and does a few other things, well yeah, he gets in my cross hairs
3) I'm just trying to help him with his spelling and improve his role with Robby
-
wow i think your lust louds your judgemtn. Forget the names. My issue with Crean was twoo fold. 1. he brought in 2-3 terrible players for every good one. causing us to always be incredibly thin. 2. I did not have ahuge problem with his transfers except that with Crean they were in a number of cases starters, team captains, players that were to be heavily counted on.
None of those issues pertain to Buzz at this point. If buzz signes 2-3 one and 2 star players a year that prove to be way over their head and then leave or dont leave and leave us with 5-6-7 BE caliber players and in addition to this if he has a number of those good players also transfer then I will have a problem with Buzz like I did with Crean in this area.
I do think MBoa will be a decent player over time. but that is my opinion if Buzz looks at it a MBAo has reached a celing or will never get any better and gleans his 12-13th man then that is Buzzes perogative. What cant you understand about that? Mabe Mbao does not work hard? Maybe Mbao is not the odd man out if he brings someone else in? there are a million different things that could happen. But until Buzz has two returning starters that have been named team captain transfer out I will not compare him to Crean. Also, Buzzes 1 and 2 star recruits have heretofore proven to be vastly underated by the gurus. creans 1 and 2 star recruits were dead on nailed. Showing one of two things either Crean has zero eye for talent or he cannot attract btter players. Two great reasons for him to no longer be coaching at MU ...not matter how your lust for him clouds your judgement
Are you drunk again or is the keyboard stuck with some "sticky residue" that is causing you to type this way?
-
Marquette84 get over yourself, seriously
-
Marquette84 get over yourself, seriously
Both sides make legit points. MU84 is correct that some people that think Crean is Hitler conveniently do not apply the same standards to the new coach at times. I assume that is what he is trying to illustrate.
-
Mu 84 i think you babble to such a degree that either you cannot follow your own logic or you hope no one else can follow your illogic.
I will break it down into bite size chunks for you and , iguess me.
How is it that you compare Mortensen and Mathhews for Crean to Bowen and clark for Buzz. matthews and Mortensen verballed, signed leters of Intent , enrolled in the university, took classes and practiced with the team yet did not play and then left.
How , even in your world, are those anywehere close to Clark and Bowen. two players who merely verballed to MArquette. I will hang up and listen to your answer. Please try to keep it under a page.
-
Don't forget that Justin Coleman had a "silent" verbal to MU. Buzz clearly lost him! Then again, if it's a silent verbal does it not count simply because few knew about it?
-
Jeez, Crean is gone. 2 years gone. End of discussion. Why does anyone really care to bring him up? He's not coming back, so looking at the future of MU and discussing Crean is simply silly and inane. If you're so anti-Buzz, talk about who should replace him. Still a stupid argument to make, but at least it would be one somewhat grounded in reality, not frozen in a past that will never be repeated.
-
We'll disagree on this point.
Christopherson didn't announce he was leaving until after Buzz was hired. Awfully coincidental--he could have made the announcement April 1st or 2nd, when everyone was being asked about their future plans. He could have said "I don't plan on returning anyway, so Crean's new job doesn't affect me at all." That didn't happen. He was obviously waiting until he saw who the new coach was. When it was Buzz, he left.
Mbakwe didn't leave until the day before classes started. Five months is a long time for an "obviously gone" player to stick around.
That's a reasonable argument.
I think the counter is reasonable as well.
Here's why I included such players, which I hope you'll at least grant has some merit:
1. An incoming recruit--verbal or signed--occupies one of a limited number of available scholarships. Two negative consequences--a) the coaching staff may have backed off recruiting for another player thinking they have a verbal in hand. b) other players that would have committed to you go elsewhere thinking they won't get playing time.
Its a reasonable argument that Clark's commitment a year and a half early precluded Buzz from getting serious with some other recruits. Therefore his loss affects the team even though he didn't make it onto the formal roster.
2. Losing a verbal commitment IS considered a loss by the team. Just ask UW fans about Vander Blue. Or MU fans about Ladaryl Billingsley. Those players never suited up, played a game or appeared in the team photo. Yet MU and UW fans will tell you that their teams lost those players.
When they announced they would be transferring doesn't really change the fact that the writing was on the wall the day Buzz was hired. I don't know how Buzz is to blame for this. Losing someone has to be caused somehow rather than just walking in the door. At least in my opinion.
As for losing verbals, I just don't think they should be counted. As you have seen in years passed, coaches will recruit until everyone they want is signed somewhere. Getting a verbal commitment means nothing. It doesn't stop people from recruiting a player, and the player is not obligated to sign with that school. Our opinions probably differ here.
-
Marquette84 get over yourself, seriously
I found the 'ignore" button works nicely!
-
Both sides make legit points. MU84 is correct that some people that think Crean is Hitler conveniently do not apply the same standards to the new coach at times. I assume that is what he is trying to illustrate.
Wow. 84 must have truly gone off the deep end for his aide-de-campe to go all neutral on him. LOL.
-
Mu 84 i think you babble to such a degree that either you cannot follow your own logic or you hope no one else can follow your illogic.
I will break it down into bite size chunks for you and , iguess me.
How is it that you compare Mortensen and Mathhews for Crean to Bowen and clark for Buzz. matthews and Mortensen verballed, signed leters of Intent , enrolled in the university, took classes and practiced with the team yet did not play and then left.
How , even in your world, are those anywehere close to Clark and Bowen. two players who merely verballed to MArquette. I will hang up and listen to your answer. Please try to keep it under a page.
Most people consider the facts and draw conclusions based on them. 84 makes his conclusions and then tries to massage the facts to fit them. I guess all the obfuscation is easier the more long winded one is, but if this thread doesn't officially end all debate concerning his agenda nothing will.
-
I will hang up and listen to your answer. Please try to keep it under a page.
Its this simple:
Those who said we had a "transfer problem" under Crean but are silent about current player departures are hypocrites.
-
1) It has nothing to do with "believing it"....it's the same IP address.
2) When a guy tells you to go frack off multiple times in private emails and does a few other things, well yeah, he gets in my cross hairs
3) I'm just trying to help him with his spelling and improve his role with Robby
Out of curiosity, where can you see someone's IP address?
-
Out of curiosity, where can you see someone's IP address?
It's only available to site admins.
-
Most people consider the facts and draw conclusions based on them. 84 makes his conclusions and then tries to massage the facts to fit them. I guess all the obfuscation is easier the more long winded one is, but if this thread doesn't officially end all debate concerning his agenda nothing will.
On this board, most people look at anything Crean does and attack it, and anything Buzz does and defend it--facts be damned.
This thread is a perfect example.
All I did was point out that the same people who complained of a "transfer problem" under Crean suddenly no longer have a problem with it--in fact, they defend Buzz--even though the number of departures is up over Crean.
Those who attacked Crean for losing Saunders are now defending Buzz for Clark.
Those who attacked Crean for losing Mortenson think Buzz is blameless for Hazel
Those who attacked Crean for Hester defend Buzz for losing Mbakwe or Chirstopherson
Those who attacked Crean for ODB hold Buzz harmless on Maymon.
and so on . . .
I guess expecting people to give up their double standards is too much.
-
I found the 'ignore" button works nicely!
me too!
-
Those who attacked Crean for losing Saunders are now defending Buzz for Clark.
Those who attacked Crean for losing Mortenson think Buzz is blameless for Hazel
Those who attacked Crean for Hester defend Buzz for losing Mbakwe or Chirstopherson
Those who attacked Crean for ODB hold Buzz harmless on Maymon.
and so on . . .
The reason Buzz is not attacked for Hazel, and Maymon is because Hazel really wasn't any good, and even though we lost Maymon we still had a very successful season without him. Also Buzz is not to blame for loosing Clark and Bowen. Clark had legal issues, and Bowen backed out of a verbal commitment because one of our assistant coaches, who played a big part in Bowen's recruitment(i forget his name), left the program.
-
Who attacked Crean for Hester?
Who attacked Crean for ODB?
My recollection is everyone who posted on the subject pointed out what a silly decision it was by ODB.
I mean I know you want to defend TC but come on.
Buzz should get the blame for Roseborro. He missed on a recruit so badly that it was evident before he even started school.
Buzz had little to do with Chistopherson leaving. He realized he was in over his head here and would have left no matter who the coach was so in reality that one falls on TC too if you want to keep score.
You want to blame Buzz for Mbakwe(another kid recruited by Crean)?
Really?
The problem that I have with you 84 is everytime you defend Crean it comes accross as ripping Buzz.
Crean has been gone for 2 years now.........this whole discussion is ridiculous.
Why don't we go back and revisit the KO and Deane years next?
P.S. I propose that we look up everyone who was offered a scholarship by Crean or Buzz and count them as "departures" since it is the obvious next step from players that verbaled but never actually attended MU.
-
As long as James Matthews has been brought up, I thought I would show how he finished up in early 2008.
YPSILANTI, Mich. (AP) -Senior center James Matthews has been dismissed from the Eastern Michigan basketball program because of conduct detrimental to the program.
``This is a tough decision, but one that was made in the best interests of the program and the players,'' coach Charles Ramsey said Tuesday in a statement. ``James is taking his last course this semester and is on track to graduate in April. We wish James the best of luck in his future endeavors.''
The 6-foot-8, 240-pound Matthews missed the first eight games this season before returning for the last 10 games, when he averaged 5.0 points and 3.8 rebounds. During his career, he averaged 3.6 points and 2.7 rebounds.
-
On this board, most people look at anything Crean does and attack it, and anything Buzz does and defend it--facts be damned.
This thread is a perfect example.
All I did was point out that the same people who complained of a "transfer problem" under Crean suddenly no longer have a problem with it--in fact, they defend Buzz--even though the number of departures is up over Crean.
Those who attacked Crean for losing Saunders are now defending Buzz for Clark.
Those who attacked Crean for losing Mortenson think Buzz is blameless for Hazel
Those who attacked Crean for Hester defend Buzz for losing Mbakwe or Chirstopherson
Those who attacked Crean for ODB hold Buzz harmless on Maymon.
and so on . . .
I guess expecting people to give up their double standards is too much.
Was MUScoop even around when Krunti Hester went to MU - to where people would have been attacking Crean for "losing" Hester? Just give it up already 84 - how many dissenting opinions do you need to read before you realize you are in the wrong on this topic. It is clear your agenda is to defend TC forever and ever, and make topics into a Buzz vs. TC debate - t hat weren't even the initial topic of discussion within a thread. Crean did well here at MU, and Buzz is doing equally as well, and quite possibly might exceed what TC did. Hopefully Buzz can win more than 1 NCAA first Round Tourney game in 9 years (without the services of D-Wade) - - The 1st round flameouts to Tulsa, Alabama, and MSU hopefully won't be duplicated in coming seasons under Buzz. Why do you have an issue with people who are genuinely excited about what Buzz has done so far with MU's basketball program/recruiting/caliber of play, etc.?
-
Its this simple:
Those who said we had a "transfer problem" under Crean but are silent about current player departures are hypocrites.
I never, not once, attacked Crean for a "transfer problem" but it's outright ludicrous to suggest the situations are similar.
The great majority of Crean's transfers were kids who actually enrolled at Marquette based on a scholarship offer from Crean, wore the Marquette uniform and then, for whatever reason, decided they did want to be at Marquette to play for Tom Crean any longer.
The great majority of Buzz transfers - real transfers, not the make believe ones you've cited - were kids recruited by Tom Crean who decided, for whatever reason, that they did not want to be at Marquette without Tom Crean there.
How can you not possibly see the difference?
Your effort to equate some of these entirely different situations, i.e. ODB and Maymon, Bowens and anyone, Mortensen and anyone, just reeks of desperation to prove a point of which nobody here can make sense.
-
The reason Buzz is not attacked for Hazel, and Maymon is because Hazel really wasn't any good, and even though we lost Maymon we still had a very successful season without him. Also Buzz is not to blame for loosing Clark and Bowen. Clark had legal issues, and Bowen backed out of a verbal commitment because one of our assistant coaches, who played a big part in Bowen's recruitment(i forget his name), left the program.
And the irony there is that in almost every season under the previous administration we had very successful seasons as well. Again....the irony.
We had transfers in the past, and still went to the NCAAs, still had players go to the NBA, still had everyone (just about) graduating, were ranked almost always. Yet the bashing and bashing and bashing.
Now, crickets. I'm happy as a clam there are crickets, I'm just wondering why that same treatment didn't apply back then? Nevermind, we all know why.
-
Was MUScoop even around when Krunti Hester went to MU - to where people would have been attacking Crean for "losing" Hester?
MUScoop was not, but that was because there wasn't a need for MUScoop back then. As I'm sure you are aware, when a need arises, someone will fill it. Due to the nature in which other MU boards were run, a need arose and was filled by MUScoop.
I think MU84 is asking the same questions others of us have asked, why the double standards? Fair questions. I know, I know....one guy was a douche, therefore double standards are ok....apparently. One guy didn't go to Turners after the games so double standards are ok....apparently. One guy wasn't an assistant for Al McGuire and, therefore, his doucheness is ok....apparently.
There are a tremendous number of double standards applied over the years here (and elsewhere by some MU fans) toward KO, Majerus, Buzz then they are vs other coach(es). It's kind of funny.
-
MUScoop was not, but that was because there wasn't a need for MUScoop back then. As I'm sure you are aware, when a need arises, someone will fill it. Due to the nature in which other MU boards were run, a need arose and was filled by MUScoop.
I think MU84 is asking the same questions others of us have asked, why the double standards? Fair questions. I know, I know....one guy was a douche, therefore double standards are ok....apparently. One guy didn't go to Turners after the games so double standards are ok....apparently. One guy wasn't an assistant for Al McGuire and, therefore, his doucheness is ok....apparently.
There are a tremendous number of double standards applied over the years here (and elsewhere by some MU fans) toward KO, Majerus, Buzz then they are vs other coach(es). It's kind of funny.
Maybe.
Or maybe it's that some of us are willing to examine each situation individually and reach our conclusions that way rather than the blanket "all transfers are created equal" methodology 84 wants to impose.
Again - and I say this as someone who never knocked Crean over transfers -how can someone legitimately compare the transfers of Dameon Mason, Karon Bradley and Ryan Amoroso to those of Scott Christopherson, Patrick Hazel and Trevor Mbakwe?
Also, any hope of credibility 84 had in this discussion pretty much went out the window when he listed two guys who are still at MU and two that never came to MU as "departures," don't you think?
I mean, excuse my literalism, but doesn't someone first have to be someplace before he can depart from it? And doesn't "departure" kind of denote leaving?
-
Maybe.
Or maybe it's that some of us are willing to examine each situation individually and reach our conclusions that way rather than the blanket "all transfers are created equal" methodology 84 wants to impose.
Again - and I say this as someone who never knocked Crean over transfers -how can someone legitimately compare the transfers of Dameon Mason, Karon Bradley and Ryan Amoroso to those of Scott Christopherson, Patrick Hazel and Trevor Mbakwe?
Also, any hope of credibility 84 had in this discussion pretty much went out the window when he listed two guys who are still at MU and two that never came to MU as "departures," don't you think?
I mean, excuse my literalism, but doesn't someone first have to be someplace before he can depart from it? And doesn't "departure" kind of denote leaving?
I wouldn't have made those comparisons, but perhaps he is saying that if those same guys left under Crean, TC would be blasted for it. I can only assume that is where he is coming from, but you would have to ask him.
-
Maybe.
Or maybe it's that some of us are willing to examine each situation individually and reach our conclusions that way rather than the blanket "all transfers are created equal" methodology 84 wants to impose.
Again - and I say this as someone who never knocked Crean over transfers -how can someone legitimately compare the transfers of Dameon Mason, Karon Bradley and Ryan Amoroso to those of Scott Christopherson, Patrick Hazel and Trevor Mbakwe?
Also, any hope of credibility 84 had in this discussion pretty much went out the window when he listed two guys who are still at MU and two that never came to MU as "departures," don't you think?
I mean, excuse my literalism, but doesn't someone first have to be someplace before he can depart from it? And doesn't "departure" kind of denote leaving?
Well, yeah in this universe. But there are alternate universes. (I think).
-
Now, crickets. I'm happy as a clam there are crickets, I'm just wondering why that same treatment didn't apply back then? Nevermind, we all know why.
because he's an a$$, and you continue to stick up for him. Who the heck cares if still pissed off fans want to rip on TC. I can think of a million better people to defend including Buzz, and if he leaves in the same fashion TC did, he'll get ripped on in the same fashion.
-
How about this comparison. How many players that Buzz recruited and actually made it to the first day of classes have transferred in two years? 1. Maymon. How many players recruited by Crean and actually took some classes at MU quit or transferred after Crean left? (This lets both parties off of the hook for N. Williams and T. Taylor) 3. Mbakwe, Hazel, Christopherson. I don't blame anyone when a player decides to leave after the coach departs, so cross Krunti off of the list. Saunders, Clark, Bowen, and Roseboro never actually enrolled for fall classes, so in my accounting, you can't hold either coach responsible for what happened to a recruit who never made it to campus. Acker quit and came back. So a strike against Buzz but also a shiny star to both for working it out like adults. To my everlasting surprise, it saved the season. So, please, rerun your computations strictly on players that Crean recruited who left while Crean was coach versus the players Buzz recruited who then left.
-
Maybe.
Or maybe it's that some of us are willing to examine each situation individually and reach our conclusions that way rather than the blanket "all transfers are created equal" methodology 84 wants to impose.
Again - and I say this as someone who never knocked Crean over transfers -how can someone legitimately compare the transfers of Dameon Mason, Karon Bradley and Ryan Amoroso to those of Scott Christopherson, Patrick Hazel and Trevor Mbakwe?
Also, any hope of credibility 84 had in this discussion pretty much went out the window when he listed two guys who are still at MU and two that never came to MU as "departures," don't you think?
I mean, excuse my literalism, but doesn't someone first have to be someplace before he can depart from it? And doesn't "departure" kind of denote leaving?
As far as my "all transfers are created equal" rule--that, sir, was imposed on this board LONG before I invoked it today. In fact, prior to 4/1/08, any attempt to view each case individually was itself criticized. Every transfer--regardless of reason--was treated as part of a greater "transfer problem."
Your silence then compared to your protest today is telling.
I've addressed several times already why I included guys who verballed
Up until today, people had no problem blaming Crean for the departure of a player that got arrested and wound up not attending MU. I see the situations with Clark and Saunders as extremely similar. I'm sorry, but I don't the LOI as the differentiating factor that you make it out to be.
Up until today, people had no problem suggesting that we "lost" LeDaryl Billingsely. Or that Bo "lost" Vander Blue. Or as you point out Crean lost Green. I don't recall anyone defending Deane by saying technically there was no LOI.
So why is Buzz given a pass on Bowen? Either Buzz withdrew the scholarship offer (equivalent to non-renewal for a returning player) or Bowen decided he didn't want to play for Buzz anymore (equivalent to a returning player deciding to transfer). Outside of a coaching change, a reneged verbal is not common. Neither coach nor player should treat such commitments lightly.
That's probably why so few come to mind. Bowen. Green. Billingesley. Ricky Olson Who else comes to mind? What about us winning one? Blue? Anyone else?
So, yes, I think it is serious when a coach loses a verbal commit.
-
because he's an a$$, and you continue to stick up for him. Who the heck cares if still pissed off fans want to rip on TC. I can think of a million better people to defend including Buzz, and if he leaves in the same fashion TC did, he'll get ripped on in the same fashion.
I stick up for what he did for MU, not for his A$$ness. KO was a dick of major proportions, yet almost no one here gets upset because he was an A$$. Therein lies the hypocrisy. Majerus left us hanging out in the cold and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did, yet no one gets all hot and bothered over it.
I'm just challenging the hypocrisy, Avid. I think that is more than a fair analysis. I have and will always maintain that I could give a rat's A$$ if my coach is a jerk or not, I want him to graduate players, keep them out of NCAA trouble, keep them off the police blotter, and win a lot of games (i.e, go to the NCAA tournament more often than not). Some people want their coach to be the nicest guy in the world if the players don't graduate, who cares. If the players have a few indiscretions, look the other way. Sure, I'd love to have a coach that is the nicest guy in the word, wins, graduates players, etc, etc....let's hope that's what we have. We should know in a few more years.
-
How about this comparison. How many players that Buzz recruited and actually made it to the first day of classes have transferred in two years? 1. Maymon. How many players recruited by Crean and actually took some classes at MU quit or transferred after Crean left? (This lets both parties off of the hook for N. Williams and T. Taylor) 3. Mbakwe, Hazel, Christopherson. I don't blame anyone when a player decides to leave after the coach departs, so cross Krunti off of the list. Saunders, Clark, Bowen, and Roseboro never actually enrolled for fall classes, so in my accounting, you can't hold either coach responsible for what happened to a recruit who never made it to campus. Acker quit and came back. So a strike against Buzz but also a shiny star to both for working it out like adults. To my everlasting surprise, it saved the season. So, please, rerun your computations strictly on players that Crean recruited who left while Crean was coach versus the players Buzz recruited who then left.
Well, Roseboro did make it to campus (took two classes) and was playing with the guys when the staff went "oh crap, he ain't what we we thought he was", but boy did we think he was all that for awhile.....
http://community.sportsbubbler.com/blogs/iwbs_sports_blog/archive/2009/02/20/mu-s-09-recruiting-class-getting-to-know-brett-roseboro.aspx
http://articles.mcall.com/2009-08-29/news/4432089_1_marquette-assistant-summer-classes-summer-session
-
So will this ever get back on topic? M'Bao's not gone yet, and losing a 7'2" athletic guy is never a good thing. I do think a redshirt year could do him wonders. He could use 20-40 pounds on his frame, but will likely only see more PT as he acclimatizes to the system. Let's not forget he's only been playing basketball for a short period of time.
-
Who the F is Mboa or M'Bao?
At least respect him enough to not butcher his name.
-
I stick up for what he did for MU, not for his A$$ness. KO was a dick of major proportions, yet almost no one here gets upset because he was an A$$. Therein lies the hypocrisy. Majerus left us hanging out in the cold and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did, yet no one gets all hot and bothered over it.
I'm just challenging the hypocrisy, Avid. I think that is more than a fair analysis. I have and will always maintain that I could give a rat's A$$ if my coach is a jerk or not, I want him to graduate players, keep them out of NCAA trouble, keep them off the police blotter, and win a lot of games (i.e, go to the NCAA tournament more often than not). Some people want their coach to be the nicest guy in the world if the players don't graduate, who cares. If the players have a few indiscretions, look the other way. Sure, I'd love to have a coach that is the nicest guy in the word, wins, graduates players, etc, etc....let's hope that's what we have. We should know in a few more years.
So why do you feel people hate TC so much, yet give Majerus and KO a pass? It's not rocket science...time. I'm guessing Packer fans won't be booing Farve 10 years from now. So why waste your time trying to get others to be fair to an a$$?
Sorry you don't care if your teams coach is a jerk. I moved my season tickets away from the MU bench during the Deane days because of his language, and I'd have young kids with me. It was an embarrassment to MU, and I still think Father Wilde was gutless (start the Warriors talk now) for allowing that crap.
-
I stick up for what he did for MU, not for his A$$ness. KO was a dick of major proportions, yet almost no one here gets upset because he was an A$$. Therein lies the hypocrisy. Majerus left us hanging out in the cold and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did, yet no one gets all hot and bothered over it.
I'm just challenging the hypocrisy, Avid. I think that is more than a fair analysis. I have and will always maintain that I could give a rat's A$$ if my coach is a jerk or not, I want him to graduate players, keep them out of NCAA trouble, keep them off the police blotter, and win a lot of games (i.e, go to the NCAA tournament more often than not). Some people want their coach to be the nicest guy in the world if the players don't graduate, who cares. If the players have a few indiscretions, look the other way. Sure, I'd love to have a coach that is the nicest guy in the word, wins, graduates players, etc, etc....let's hope that's what we have. We should know in a few more years.
KO was a dick of major proportions
I wasn't in a position to know this, and I'm glad I didn't. Although, I guess his comment on his contract ("I wouldn't use it to blow my nose on" - was it?) should have been a clue.
I did like his first year's recruiting class. (Well, not the Keith Stewart transfer) And he was the only coach I actually met at alumni receptions (in Chicago) after games. He also was the only coach who, I think, is in Buzz's class when it comes to honesty. Maybe, too much. After one game I think I remember O'Neil saying that Logterman played so bad that O'Neil told him that he looked like he was "high" out there.
-
So why do you feel people hate TC so much, yet give Majerus and KO a pass? It's not rocket science...time. I'm guessing Packer fans won't be booing Farve 10 years from now. So why waste your time trying to get others to be fair to an a$$?
Sorry you don't care if your teams coach is a jerk. I moved my season tickets away from the MU bench during the Deane days because of his language, and I'd have young kids with me. It was an embarrassment to MU, and I still think Father Wilde was gutless (start the Warriors talk now) for allowing that crap.
I respect what you did in moving your tickets, I would have done the same thing.
Let's put it this way, on the JERK METER, at least to most of the Milwaukee and national public, Crean came in pretty low. Crean was never stupid enough to rip on the school (KO), to cheat on his wife in public (KO), get publicly drunk (MD, KO), etc.
Yes, people behind the scenes knew the real TC was a douche but most of the public didn't. Just as most of the public Indiana fans don't either.
So let me clarify, if my coach is promoting the hell out of Marquette, getting us national acclaim, putting us on the lips and tongues of people in the basketball world that hadn't spoken about us outside of the bubble that is Milwaukee but is a pain in the ass to work for, rubs some of the blue hairs and former M Club members the wrong way....I have to tell you....I don't care.
Maybe that's because a few of those people need to be rubbed the wrong way (most do not, but a few certainly do).
As much of an "A$$" that TC was, most in Milwaukee or nationally never knew this. He never crapped on MU and did more PR for the school than we had seen in 2+ decades sans Jeffrey Dahmer. And yes, I agree that time changes things, but I'm also going to be happy to remind people that LOVE KO and LOVE Majerus and LOVE MD how hypocritical they are. You can't sit there and drool over KO and call TC an A$$. I'm sorry, but that isn't going to fly with anyone.
-
KO was a dick of major proportions
I wasn't in a position to know this, and I'm glad I didn't. Although, I guess his comment on his contract ("I wouldn't use it to blow my nose on" - was it?) should have been a clue.
I did like his first year's recruiting class. (Well, not the Keith Stewart transfer) And he was the only coach I actually met at alumni receptions (in Chicago) after games. He also was the only coach who, I think, is in Buzz's class when it comes to honesty. Maybe, too much. After one game I think I remember O'Neil saying that Logterman played so bad that O'Neil told him that he looked like he was "high" out there.
Thank God cell phones with cameras and the internet weren't around in his Kevin's party days, which coincided with his tenure at MU. It would not have been a good situation for a Catholic university to say the least.
-
I stick up for what he did for MU, not for his A$$ness. KO was a dick of major proportions, yet almost no one here gets upset because he was an A$$. Therein lies the hypocrisy. Majerus left us hanging out in the cold and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did, yet no one gets all hot and bothered over it.
I'm just challenging the hypocrisy, Avid. I think that is more than a fair analysis. I have and will always maintain that I could give a rat's A$$ if my coach is a jerk or not, I want him to graduate players, keep them out of NCAA trouble, keep them off the police blotter, and win a lot of games (i.e, go to the NCAA tournament more often than not). Some people want their coach to be the nicest guy in the world if the players don't graduate, who cares. If the players have a few indiscretions, look the other way. Sure, I'd love to have a coach that is the nicest guy in the word, wins, graduates players, etc, etc....let's hope that's what we have. We should know in a few more years.
Majerus left us hanging out in the cold...
This one shocks me. I was positive that Majerus was shown the door. It's hard to believe that he was able to leave on his own.
...and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did
Tommy might not have left his best team, but it was closer to his best than his worst. I'm sure Buzz was glad to have a year's worth of breathing room.
-
So Chicos, (I hope that you don't mind me using your nick name, so to speak)
In your opinion, was Crean a douche from the gitgo or did success ruin him?
I've always assumed that the final four made his head four times bigger, but I really don't know.
-
Majerus left us hanging out in the cold...
This one shocks me. I was positive that Majerus was shown the door. It's hard to believe that he was able to leave on his own.
...and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did
Tommy might not have left his best team, but it was closer to his best than his worst. I'm sure Buzz was glad to have a year's worth of breathing room.
I think we're saying the same thing on your second point. In my mind, TC left MU in decent shape, not great shape, but decent shape. Canadian Dimes and others will scream bloody murder at this about the cupboard being bare, but at the end of the day, 4 of the top 10 scorers in MU history were on the roster with eligibility to play when Crean left. Plus, Buzz isn't at MU without Crean to begin with. So I think we're saying the same thing.
As for Majerus being shown the door....I don't think so, but anything is possible. Majerus left Marquette in JUNE.....JUNE of 1986. That is such a ridiculous time to leave it's incredible. I cannot believe MU would push out a coach in June of any year unless they had no clue at the helm of the university and the athletic department. It's such a horrible time to leave. Dukiet was hired July 5th. If MU were to push a coach out, you typically do that in March or April so you have time to hire a good coach over the coming month during and after the tournament. In June, you're screwed.
Maybe someone will correct me on this, but my belief is that Majerus was certainly feeling the pressure. Three NIT appearances, losing Wolf to North Carolina, etc, but he wasn't forced out. Instead, perhaps he felt the pressure was too great and wanted to jump ship before the eventual axe came down a year or two later. But were left big time in the cold on that one.
-
The urban legend was Majerus was feeling the heat and he was having health issues because of the stress and AL engineered his job with the Bucks, no way MU pushed him out on almost the 4th of July. I remember when Majerus left thinking how do we find a quality coach at that time of year obviously we didn't.
-
pretty sure majerus left in June of 86, seeing how I graduated in 88 having suffered through a couple years of Dukiet, but that is just splitting hairs. And the rumors on campus at the time was that influential alumni encouraged him to go because he wasn't Al.
-
So Chicos, (I hope that you don't mind me using your nick name, so to speak)
In your opinion, was Crean a douche from the gitgo or did success ruin him?
I've always assumed that the final four made his head four times bigger, but I really don't know.
I worked with him for 6 months before I took the job in California in pro sports. I will say this, definitely tough to work for but not tough to work with. I don't know if that resonates well with how I'm saying it, but everything I asked him to do, he did. When I asked him to personally call season ticket holders and have his team and assistants do it, he did it without any hesitation. They did it for weeks on end. When I asked him to attend certain functions big and small to speak, promote MU, build up the brand so to speak, he did it without any hesitation.
He definitely had a salesman personality which a lot of people do not like. He also felt he was the CEO of basketball program which was different than in other regimes where the coach wanted to coach and let the PR group do PR, the ticket group do ticketing, marketing do marketing, etc. That rubbed people wrong because they were used to doing their own thing.
I don't know if he "changed" per se, but certainly success doesn't sit well with many people. My guess is that it probably enhanced some idiosyncrasies that were already there that not everyone cared for. Count me on that list, but I'm also a results oriented person and he more often than not delivered the results I was looking for (wins, graduation rates, attendance was high, no NCAA violations, etc, etc)
-
The urban legend was Majerus was feeling the heat and he was having health issues because of the stress and AL engineered his job with the Bucks, no way MU pushed him out on almost the 4th of July. I remember when Majerus left thinking how do we find a quality coach at that time of year obviously we didn't.
Yeah, but we were able to find a coach whose name rhymed with Marquette. He played piano at his introductory news conference, as well, I think.
Oh, the bad ol' days.
BTW, young 'ens, the use of teal above should not be taken to mean that the statements are made up. Incredibly, they are true. Those were two points of emphasis when Dukiet was first presented to the public.
-
pretty sure majerus left in June of 86, seeing how I graduated in 88 having suffered through a couple years of Dukiet, but that is just splitting hairs. And the rumors on campus at the time was that influential alumni encouraged him to go because he wasn't Al.
Sorry, typo...yes it was '86.
-
Can I set the record straight on Rick? Here are the facts. MU felt they had the next great young coach sitting next to Hank as his assistant. Rick felt he was ready to be the head dude and Marquette was increasingly concerned they'd lose him to the Badgers. Hence, Hank was eased out and Rick promoted. In hindsight, Rick wasn't ready. And, certainly not ready to be the Warriors' head coach. The pressure to succeed not only in Milwaukee, but also at his alma mater was taking it's toll on Majerus. He became beet red when arguing with the refs (looked like he was going to pop a gasket or stroke out at any minute). He could advance MU only to 3 NIT invitations in 3 years, and lost Joe Wolf to UNC. This, by the way, was the proverbial straw. I contend that had Wolf come to MU, Rick would still be our coach. Yes, he would have secured the program and Rick for decades.
There were rumblings amongst the alums that perhaps Rick was out of his league. Pressure mounted. So, before, he faced the firing squad, his good friend, Don Nelson, saved his face in June, thereby BF'ing MU. Come sit next to me as my 2nd asst. The public perception would be that this was a professional advancement. In reality, Rick took a huge pay cut to do so. And, Marquette was left high and dry looking for a head coach in June, with none other than Hank leading the search. Enter the savior, Mike Newell, for Arkansas-Little Rock. Took the gig for a day, July 4. Word has it his wife nixed the deal. Amazingly, Hank hired the next dick on his list on July 5. Enter Bob Dukiet from St. Peters. 'Nough said.
How do I know all this? Let's just say I do, and am a little more connected than your average gardener.
-
I forgot about Newell. He was real hot sh*t at the time, I remember. After he did his about face, I think I remember Hank something saying like; "I really believe that that man has a bright future." He did eventually move on to a better job, but not with the expected results.
-
I worked with him for 6 months before I took the job in California in pro sports. I will say this, definitely tough to work for but not tough to work with. I don't know if that resonates well with how I'm saying it, but everything I asked him to do, he did. When I asked him to personally call season ticket holders and have his team and assistants do it, he did it without any hesitation. They did it for weeks on end. When I asked him to attend certain functions big and small to speak, promote MU, build up the brand so to speak, he did it without any hesitation.
He definitely had a salesman personality which a lot of people do not like. He also felt he was the CEO of basketball program which was different than in other regimes where the coach wanted to coach and let the PR group do PR, the ticket group do ticketing, marketing do marketing, etc. That rubbed people wrong because they were used to doing their own thing.
I don't know if he "changed" per se, but certainly success doesn't sit well with many people. My guess is that it probably enhanced some idiosyncrasies that were already there that not everyone cared for. Count me on that list, but I'm also a results oriented person and he more often than not delivered the results I was looking for (wins, graduation rates, attendance was high, no NCAA violations, etc, etc)
I know we all have our personal biases about who we "like" and "dislike", but this appears to be a pretty honest and fair assessment from somebody who worked with TC (Chico's), and matches the other things I have heard from the basketball managers, athletic office personnel, and a couple of media members. A couple of the media guys did say TC did leave a bad taste in their mouth because they felt he became too "bigtime". I think that's probably true, as well.
-
Can I set the record straight on Rick? Here are the facts. MU felt they had the next great young coach sitting next to Hank as his assistant. Rick felt he was ready to be the head dude and Marquette was increasingly concerned they'd lose him to the Badgers. Hence, Hank was eased out and Rick promoted. In hindsight, Rick wasn't ready. And, certainly not ready to be the Warriors' head coach. The pressure to succeed not only in Milwaukee, but also at his alma mater was taking it's toll on Majerus. He became beet red when arguing with the refs (looked like he was going to pop a gasket or stroke out at any minute). He could advance MU only to 3 NIT invitations in 3 years, and lost Joe Wolf to UNC. This, by the way, was the proverbial straw. I contend that had Wolf come to MU, Rick would still be our coach. Yes, he would have secured the program and Rick for decades.
There were rumblings amongst the alums that perhaps Rick was out of his league. Pressure mounted. So, before, he faced the firing squad, his good friend, Don Nelson, saved his face in June, thereby BF'ing MU. Come sit next to me as my 2nd asst. The public perception would be that this was a professional advancement. In reality, Rick took a huge pay cut to do so. And, Marquette was left high and dry looking for a head coach in June, with none other than Hank leading the search. Enter the savior, Mike Newell, for Arkansas-Little Rock. Took the gig for a day, July 4. Word has it his wife nixed the deal. Amazingly, Hank hired the next dick on his list on July 5. Enter Bob Dukiet from St. Peters. 'Nough said.
How do I know all this? Let's just say I do, and am a little more connected than your average gardener.
That's pretty darn close to what I've heard internally over the years. Not pushed out, but got out while the gettin' was good. Also concur on Wolf being a killer for him.
-
There is no way to compare the transfers during Crean's tenure with those of Buzz. No doubt Crean had a transfer problem. He consistently lost players he recruited over his entire tenure. He lost enough of them that it consistently left holes in the roster. Buzz might have a transfer problem. We'll see after he has been here a few more years. Right now, I do not see it as much of a concern.
Every new coach is going to lose players and committed recruits. Crean lost Krunti Hester. Buzz lost Nick Williams and Taylor. Not much a coach can do about that. Buzz had not even met Williams before he decided to follow Crean to IIII. Players frequently want to play for the coach who recruited them, not a replacement who may or may not fit their style and temperment. So Christopherson bailed on Buzz. Mbakwe seemed to be a real loose canon. Hard to tell what he would have done if Crean had remained, but once he left, Mbakwe was gone. He just didn't bother to tell Buzz.
Now let's look at the players who coaches recruited who actually left. Buzz lost Maymon and Roseboro. No question, Buzz lost Maymon. He went after him, wanted him, played him, and lost him. Roseboro is a little different. Roseboro was one of a ridiculous seven new players coming in this year. He was clearly the last guy on the bench. Maybe he was worth taking a chance on a scholarship. Maybe not. In any case, there is no way the guy gets one if there are only four or five to give. Contrast that with Crean's first class. Four players. Two graduated. One went pro early. One important player transferred. We shall see how Buzz's group fares, but up to this point, it is similar to Crean's. Now look at the second Crean class. Four players. Two gone by the end of their first season. We do not know what Buzz's class is going to do, but one hopes they do better than that. The class after that. Four players. Three gone after one year. The fourth gone after two years. Other major, important recruits come in, stay a year or two, and leave.
There is not much a coach can do about a player who gets into trouble and is encouraged to leave. Programs are going to have those. Both Buzz and Crean have had those. The difference is that Crean recruited all those problem children. Buzz inherited his. The only thing a coach can do is to take care that he does not recruit players who turn out to be behavior problems. Had Clark gotten here and then left, that would be all on Buzz. As it is, the fact that he never got here is partly on Buzz. Crean had Matthews and Bell and Christian and Mortensen and Hazel. So far, Buzz has nobody.
As for players who verbally committed and never got here, who cares? A verbal commitment is not worth the paper it is printed on. Bowen left because the assistant who recruited him left. He was immediately replaced. Anthony Green committed early and then didn't make the grades. Ditto Saunders, except he was an over-recruit, which might give some pause. Crean had Marcus Williams or whatever his name was, the kid from Vincent who transferred from NC State, decided to go to junior college instead, and then got hurt and never made it to campus. Of all those, if one is inclined to blame a coach at all, the least blameworthy would have been Bowen. Apparently a player good enough to play at this level, smart enough to get in, and tied to a particular assistant, as recruits often are.
His personality aside, the biggest problem I ever had with Crean was his roster turnover. Way, way too many. About half of them. It left Marquette in constant rebuilding mode. Buzz hasn't even rebuilt yet. If he gets through the next two weeks, he will have. The team will be all his. The classes will be balanced. That in itself is an accomplishment, as he will have completely rebuilt the team in two years. If he then loses a couple players a year, and if they are the pivital players, the jewels of the recruiting class, the players you were counting on to play a big role in the year to come, then you can compare him to Crean. Until then, no problem.
-
So why do you feel people hate TC so much, yet give Majerus and KO a pass? It's not rocket science...time. I'm guessing Packer fans won't be booing Farve 10 years from now. So why waste your time trying to get others to be fair to an a$$?
Sorry you don't care if your teams coach is a jerk. I moved my season tickets away from the MU bench during the Deane days because of his language, and I'd have young kids with me. It was an embarrassment to MU, and I still think Father Wilde was gutless (start the Warriors talk now) for allowing that crap.
avid question for you did you also have seats behing the bench for Oneil? I only ask because i also sat behind the bench ofr oneil and oneil was far worse. Just wondering.
-
KO was a dick of major proportions
I wasn't in a position to know this, and I'm glad I didn't. Although, I guess his comment on his contract ("I wouldn't use it to blow my nose on" - was it?) should have been a clue.
I did like his first year's recruiting class. (Well, not the Keith Stewart transfer) And he was the only coach I actually met at alumni receptions (in Chicago) after games. He also was the only coach who, I think, is in Buzz's class when it comes to honesty. Maybe, too much. After one game I think I remember O'Neil saying that Logterman played so bad that O'Neil told him that he looked like he was "high" out there.
You are right lilMurs... some people think time will heal wonds. Maybe for some i personal have no "wound" and dont "hate" the guy for leaving. I beleive 99% of coaches out there would leave MU for IU additionally I am glad he left.
But i hated Crean 6 years ago and always will. on the other hand the resentment couldbe/should be greater for Oneil. he made alateral move and even lamented it later. I will never hate Oneil i will always like oneil and i persoanlly think the job he did at Mu was far far far more difficult and extrordinary than the one Crean did.
Mu was without a conference or maybe had just join the Midwest when Oneil was hired, had not been to the tourney in 8-9 years and was not where close to getting there. He recruited 4 top 00 kids in year one and recruited extremely well after that. He recruited 3 NBA players in 4 years, won conference championships a sweet 16 etc. He put MU back on the map. Crean came in with Mu 2 years removed from repeat NCAA tournaments and a conference title.
anyway, Oneil was who he was brash hard living hard drinking tell it like it is, lacked diplomacy and could tend to get him self in trouble. Ok that is hwo he was i would take him any day over a guy like Crean who did not have an endearing quality to him. Time has nothing to do with it for me. Oneil was a likeable ass, Crean was a detestable scumbag.
another way to look at it is how other teams fans see the coach. within any fan base people will liek the coach and others will not. Funny thing was with opposing BE fanbases almost every single teams fanbases hated Crean, go to any teams webpage before or after there game with Marquette and their boards would be dominated with how much they hated Crean. Now of course the Crean apologists would protest that was just becuse Mu was good. And " you want to be hated that means you are winning". I am sorry but I have never hated Jamie Dixon, I have never hated John Beilien I have never hated Jay Wright.
Funny thing too is now that we have a new coach you can go to those samw websites and the fans speak very highly of Buzz Willimas they all seem to like him. Same team, same uniforms, many of the same players. We are still beating them, but they seem to not think the Mu ciach is a complete freaking a$$hole!?!? How can it be even the badger fans have a much softer side for BUzz. How do you think a poll of badger fans and BE fans would measure up and comments about the two. Seems a majority of the opposing fans hated Crean as well.
what is also proof positive is it is happeneing in the Big Ten all the opposing fanbases a developing a hatered for Crean...think it's becuase he is always beating them? :D
-
There is no way to compare the transfers during Crean's tenure with those of Buzz. No doubt Crean had a transfer problem. He consistently lost players he recruited over his entire tenure. He lost enough of them that it consistently left holes in the roster. Buzz might have a transfer problem. We'll see after he has been here a few more years. Right now, I do not see it as much of a concern.
Every new coach is going to lose players and committed recruits. Crean lost Krunti Hester. Buzz lost Nick Williams and Taylor. Not much a coach can do about that. Buzz had not even met Williams before he decided to follow Crean to IIII. Players frequently want to play for the coach who recruited them, not a replacement who may or may not fit their style and temperment. So Christopherson bailed on Buzz. Mbakwe seemed to be a real loose canon. Hard to tell what he would have done if Crean had remained, but once he left, Mbakwe was gone. He just didn't bother to tell Buzz.
Now let's look at the players who coaches recruited who actually left. Buzz lost Maymon and Roseboro. No question, Buzz lost Maymon. He went after him, wanted him, played him, and lost him. Roseboro is a little different. Roseboro was one of a ridiculous seven new players coming in this year. He was clearly the last guy on the bench. Maybe he was worth taking a chance on a scholarship. Maybe not. In any case, there is no way the guy gets one if there are only four or five to give. Contrast that with Crean's first class. Four players. Two graduated. One went pro early. One important player transferred. We shall see how Buzz's group fares, but up to this point, it is similar to Crean's. Now look at the second Crean class. Four players. Two gone by the end of their first season. We do not know what Buzz's class is going to do, but one hopes they do better than that. The class after that. Four players. Three gone after one year. The fourth gone after two years. Other major, important recruits come in, stay a year or two, and leave.
There is not much a coach can do about a player who gets into trouble and is encouraged to leave. Programs are going to have those. Both Buzz and Crean have had those. The difference is that Crean recruited all those problem children. Buzz inherited his. The only thing a coach can do is to take care that he does not recruit players who turn out to be behavior problems. Had Clark gotten here and then left, that would be all on Buzz. As it is, the fact that he never got here is partly on Buzz. Crean had Matthews and Bell and Christian and Mortensen and Hazel. So far, Buzz has nobody.
As for players who verbally committed and never got here, who cares? A verbal commitment is not worth the paper it is printed on. Bowen left because the assistant who recruited him left. He was immediately replaced. Anthony Green committed early and then didn't make the grades. Ditto Saunders, except he was an over-recruit, which might give some pause. Crean had Marcus Williams or whatever his name was, the kid from Vincent who transferred from NC State, decided to go to junior college instead, and then got hurt and never made it to campus. Of all those, if one is inclined to blame a coach at all, the least blameworthy would have been Bowen. Apparently a player good enough to play at this level, smart enough to get in, and tied to a particular assistant, as recruits often are.
His personality aside, the biggest problem I ever had with Crean was his roster turnover. Way, way too many. About half of them. It left Marquette in constant rebuilding mode. Buzz hasn't even rebuilt yet. If he gets through the next two weeks, he will have. The team will be all his. The classes will be balanced. That in itself is an accomplishment, as he will have completely rebuilt the team in two years. If he then loses a couple players a year, and if they are the pivital players, the jewels of the recruiting class, the players you were counting on to play a big role in the year to come, then you can compare him to Crean. Until then, no problem.
good post goatherder and i think 95% of the readers would agree with you. of course the apologists/buzz detractors will not.
at the end of the day no one craes about the Roseboro's and Bells etc. Not every team can have 13 starters therefore coachs need to sign developmental players. players that can hopefully fill a role and help produce after a few years and have a good attitude to work towards that goal. not every player you sign with that intent ends up comfortable in that role or has the work ethic or even talent to be a player like a cubi or an acker. those guys have to be the toughest mentally and the hardest workers to bust ass for 2-3 years to get time as a senior. Another player of that ilk wasDAvid Diggs rarely ever saw the court for 3 years and not a whole lot even as as senior. most guys take the easy route and transfer to a lesser program so they can play. These guys are used to scoring 20+ a game and always being the best player on the their team or the court, sitting for 2-3 years is not easy. all programs are going to have that type of turnover. No one beguges a coach when those players turnover. Yet red flags wave wehn team captains and starters and heavily counted on players bail. When that starts happening to Buzz then people will become concerned as they should.
-
Worst thread of all time.
-
This thread turned into a waste dump after page 2.
-
You are right lilMurs... some people think time will heal wonds. Maybe for some i personal have no "wound" and dont "hate" the guy for leaving. I beleive 99% of coaches out there would leave MU for IU additionally I am glad he left.
But i hated Crean 6 years ago and always will. on the other hand the resentment couldbe/should be greater for Oneil. he made alateral move and even lamented it later. I will never hate Oneil i will always like oneil and i persoanlly think the job he did at Mu was far far far more difficult and extrordinary than the one Crean did.
Mu was without a conference or maybe had just join the Midwest when Oneil was hired, had not been to the tourney in 8-9 years and was not where close to getting there. He recruited 4 top 00 kids in year one and recruited extremely well after that. He recruited 3 NBA players in 4 years, won conference championships a sweet 16 etc. He put MU back on the map. Crean came in with Mu 2 years removed from repeat NCAA tournaments and a conference title.
anyway, Oneil was who he was brash hard living hard drinking tell it like it is, lacked diplomacy and could tend to get him self in trouble. Ok that is hwo he was i would take him any day over a guy like Crean who did not have an endearing quality to him. Time has nothing to do with it for me. Oneil was a likeable ass, Crean was a detestable scumbag.
another way to look at it is how other teams fans see the coach. within any fan base people will liek the coach and others will not. Funny thing was with opposing BE fanbases almost every single teams fanbases hated Crean, go to any teams webpage before or after there game with Marquette and their boards would be dominated with how much they hated Crean. Now of course the Crean apologists would protest that was just becuse Mu was good. And " you want to be hated that means you are winning". I am sorry but I have never hated Jamie Dixon, I have never hated John Beilien I have never hated Jay Wright.
Funny thing too is now that we have a new coach you can go to those samw websites and the fans speak very highly of Buzz Willimas they all seem to like him. Same team, same uniforms, many of the same players. We are still beating them, but they seem to not think the Mu ciach is a complete freaking a$$hole!?!? How can it be even the badger fans have a much softer side for BUzz. How do you think a poll of badger fans and BE fans would measure up and comments about the two. Seems a majority of the opposing fans hated Crean as well.
what is also proof positive is it is happeneing in the Big Ten all the opposing fanbases a developing a hatered for Crean...think it's becuase he is always beating them? :D
I have but one question for you.
Were you required to take English 001 and 002 at Marquette?
-
I have but one question for you.
Were you required to take English 001 and 002 at Marquette?
Marquette High School???
-
Marquette High School???
(http://www.dparchitecture.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/marquette.png)
-
So Mbao might be leaving the program . . . .
-
So Mbao might be leaving the program . . . .
No, he's cool. It's some other guy named "MBOA." He's just a student, though, so I dunno why this isn't in the superbar.
-
On top of that this conversation took place at a party, so for all we know it might have been an imaginary drunken conversation with what was actually a poster of Kevin Garnett, and if it wasn't a drunken conversation that that begs the question...what were you doing at a party sober?
-
Im pretty sure someone could tell if they are talking to a 7'2 basketball player and not a poster. But that would suck if we lost Mbao I like his defense on the perimeter.
-
Now that the thread has returned to the original topic, I believe that Indiana was one of the finalists for his services along with us.
Makes me wonder if Mbao wishes he'd gone to Bloomington so as to avoid all this speculation about him getting Buzzcut.
-
Now that the thread has returned to the original topic, I believe that Indiana was one of the finalists for his services along with us.
Makes me wonder if Mbao wishes he'd gone to Bloomington so as to avoid all this speculation about him getting Buzzcut.
was that a thinly veiled attempt to get the thread back off-topic?
-
bump
-
Now that the thread has returned to the original topic, I believe that Indiana was one of the finalists for his services along with us.
Makes me wonder if Mbao wishes he'd gone to Bloomington so as to avoid all this speculation about him getting Buzzcut.
Not saying you are wrong, but I would be curious to know where you saw IU as one of his finalists.
I've seen USC and Virginia Tech mentioned most frequently but never IU. Perhaps it's there.
-
was that a thinly veiled attempt to get the thread back off-topic?
Just trying out new material for my standup act.
-
Im pretty sure someone could tell if they are talking to a 7'2 basketball player and not a poster. But that would suck if we lost Mbao I like his defense on the perimeter.
That should not be the best attribute of a 7'2'' basketball player.
-
Majerus left us hanging out in the cold...
This one shocks me. I was positive that Majerus was shown the door. It's hard to believe that he was able to leave on his own.
...and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did
Tommy might not have left his best team, but it was closer to his best than his worst. I'm sure Buzz was glad to have a year's worth of breathing room.
I am not buying that Majerus left us in the cold. He pushed administration for better amenities, practice facility, etc. and got nowhere.
So he chose to move on.
-
I am not buying that Majerus left us in the cold. He pushed administration for better amenities, practice facility, etc. and got nowhere.
So he chose to move on.
Leaving in June can only be described as "leaving us in the cold". If he wanted bigger buffets and more towels to wipe his ass with, and didn't get them, then ship your pudgy ass out at the end of the season. Not 3 months later.
-
I stand by my post. He absolutely iced MU.
-
I am not buying that Majerus left us in the cold. He pushed administration for better amenities, practice facility, etc. and got nowhere.
So he chose to move on.
He was a Marquette graduate, a coach during the glory years, etc. He knew that leaving in June would be devastating. Colder than a witch's tit in Green Bay in January.