Buzz to Iowa with more coming.
Is some of this good for recruiting as it says your coach is good? Or, is it bad as it says instability?
When is too much of a good thing bad?
Thoughts?
I really feel that all of the "Crean to..." rumors really hurt Marquette's recruiting. If MU wants to keep Buzz and give recruits a sense of stability, they'll lock him up long-term (preferably with minimal outs).
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 17, 2010, 11:53:46 AM
Buzz to Iowa with more coming.
Is some of this good for recruiting as it says your coach is good? Or, is it bad as it says instability?
When is too much of a good thing bad?
Thoughts?
I don't put any stock into the rumors when they're mentioning 15 other coaches at the same time.
When it starts getting reported that Buzz is in the top 3 candidates for Program X then it starts to get to me a bit.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 17, 2010, 11:57:01 AM
I really feel that all of the "Crean to..." rumors really hurt Marquette's recruiting. If MU wants to keep Buzz and give recruits a sense of stability, they'll lock him up long-term (preferably with minimal outs).
Does not matter how "long" a contract is. If a guy wants out, he gets out.
There are no Buzz rumors.
There are people on message boards saying they'd like him to be their team's coach.
Big difference.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2010, 12:01:21 PM
There are no Buzz rumors.
There are people on message boards saying they'd like him to be their team's coach.
Big difference.
There is usually a pretty strong correlation between message board comments and the actual search.
When Crean left, the two names most frequently mentioned on the message board were Sean Miller and Tony Bennett. And the first two coaches contacted by Marquette were Sean Miller and Tony Bennett.
Sure, there are outliers, but if multiple fans on a team message board are mentioning Buzz, you can bet he's on the list drawn up by the AD's office as well.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 12:11:54 PM
There is usually a pretty strong correlation between message board comments and the actual search.
When Crean left, the two names most frequently mentioned on the message board were Sean Miller and Tony Bennett. And the first two coaches contacted by Marquette were Sean Miller and Tony Bennett.
Sure, there are outliers, but if multiple fans on a team message board are mentioning Buzz, you can bet he's on the list drawn up by the AD's office as well.
There's may be a correlation between message boards and a search (it's not hard to guess), but the correlation between message boards and who is actually hired is darn near zero.
Using the previous example, no one on the message boards mentioned Buzz (in seriousness) when Crean left.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 12:11:54 PM
There is usually a pretty strong correlation between message board comments and the actual search.
When Crean left, the two names most frequently mentioned on the message board were Sean Miller and Tony Bennett. And the first two coaches contacted by Marquette were Sean Miller and Tony Bennett.
Sure, there are outliers, but if multiple fans on a team message board are mentioning Buzz, you can bet he's on the list drawn up by the AD's office as well.
Really?
Then Ben Howland and Bruce Pearl are among the top contenders for the Iowa job.
Must be true. I read it on a message board.
And Bobby Knight and Lute Olsen are among the candidates at Seton Hall. So sayeth a message board.
I'm more insulted that Iowa even considers themselves anything other than a step down from Marquette....
QuoteI'm more insulted that Iowa even considers themselves anything other than a step down from Marquette....
Agreed
Quote from: mwbauer7 on March 17, 2010, 12:22:58 PM
I'm more insulted that Iowa even considers themselves anything other than a step down from Marquette....
AT BEST it's a parallel move.
At worst, it's a job where they just fired a guy before he got a chance to coach only players he recruited.
It is a step down in conference, a step down in talent, a step down in tradition
Where are the steps up that would equal a parallel movement?
AND a step down in spending!
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on March 17, 2010, 12:29:10 PM
It is a step down in conference, a step down in talent, a step down in tradition
Where are the steps up that would equal a parallel movement?
I gave them credit for being in a power conference and that's about it. That's why I used the all caps on 'AT BEST.' :D
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on March 17, 2010, 12:29:36 PM
AND a step down in spending!
My vote for best screen name...
Fans -- Buzz has repeatedly made a definitive statement on the issue. Heck he just repeated it on Rome's show yesterday. "I will be the Marquette coach as long as they want me." He has made that statement everytime he has been asked and many times he has made the comment even when he isn't asked.
I believe him and expect that there will be a Buzz Williams statue next to Al McGuire's someday.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on March 17, 2010, 12:37:22 PM
I believe him and expect that there will be a Buzz Williams statue next to Al McGuire's someday.
I was kinda hoping for a Buzz shaped robot doing the "walk it out" dance on a loop.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on March 17, 2010, 12:37:22 PM
Fans -- Buzz has repeatedly made a definitive statement on the issue. Heck he just repeated it on Rome's show yesterday. "I will be the Marquette coach as long as they want me." He has made that statement everytime he has been asked and many times he has made the comment even when he isn't asked.
I believe him and expect that there will be a Buzz Williams statue next to Al McGuire's someday.
I believe Buzz when he says that but I also believe it is possible that he may end up coaching somewhere else, someday. I just don't think that will be soon because this job really fits him. If you listen carefully to his answer to the question, he always mentions the agreement in philosophy with the administration.
I am a little worried about the post-Wild regime. Who knows what the new Prez will want?
I truly hope that there will be a Buzz statue next to Al's as that will mean he was here a long time and will have accomplished great things.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on March 17, 2010, 12:29:10 PM
It is a step down in conference, a step down in talent, a step down in tradition
Where are the steps up that would equal a parallel movement?
TV coverage. The Big Ten Network brings in a boatload of money, and they can sell it as a recruiting tool to coaches.
That's about all Iowa has at this point.
Pakuni nails it.
I saw a Dixon to Oregon mention.....Pearl to Iowa......Little to do about nothing.
He understands and appreciates the chance the MU adminstration showed in him when they gave him the job. He is a man of faith who has mentioned on numerous occassions(including on national radio yesterday) that he loves it at Marquette and he will be here "as long as they will have me."
I understand we are all cynical......but can't we at least be open to the possibility that this guy really is speaking the truth?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2010, 12:01:21 PM
There are no Buzz rumors.
There are people on message boards saying they'd like him to be their team's coach.
Big difference.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on March 17, 2010, 12:29:10 PM
It is a step down in conference, a step down in talent, a step down in tradition
Where are the steps up that would equal a parallel movement?
Not to mention the facilities and taking a back seat to football....a move to Iowa would be a step down...not even close.
Quote from: downtown85 on March 17, 2010, 12:45:25 PM
I am a little worried about the post-Wild regime. Who knows what the new Prez will want?
Perhaps my faith is misplaced here, but I'd like to believe the Board of Trustees recognizes (or, better stated, will continue to recognize) the importance of men's basketball to Marquette as a whole, and therefore chooses a president who shares that philosophy.
I have a hard time believing the board is going to select a candidate who differs with them on that issue, so I'm not all that troubled about it.
QuoteI am a little worried about the post-Wild regime. Who knows what the new Prez will want?
Rumor I have been hearing from other alum is that the current President at St. Joes is the guy most believe will be Wild's replacement. St. Joe's has always been a decent basketball school and part of that crazy Philly area basketball scene. If true, we should be okay.
Buzz and Fr. Wild seem to really like each other. Our next prez could be a basketball guy, but (for those who want to have something to worry about) maybe Buzz's and his personalities will clash, leading to less job satisfaction. You just never know.
"I'll be there as long as they'll have me"-Buzz
end of story.
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on March 17, 2010, 12:54:33 PM
Rumor I have been hearing from other alum is that the current President at St. Joes is the guy most believe will be Wild's replacement. St. Joe's has always been a decent basketball school and part of that crazy Philly area basketball scene. If true, we should be okay.
They also just renovated/basically built a nice on campus arena.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on March 17, 2010, 12:37:22 PM
Fans -- Buzz has repeatedly made a definitive statement on the issue. Heck he just repeated it on Rome's show yesterday. "I will be the Marquette coach as long as they want me." He has made that statement everytime he has been asked and many times he has made the comment even when he isn't asked.
I believe him and expect that there will be a Buzz Williams statue next to Al McGuire's someday.
Never trust what a coach says. I can give you 20 examples just in the last 5 years of coaches saying almost the same thing and they went elsewhere. That doesn't mean I think Buzz is going anywhere, but those cliches by coaches mean nothing
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2010, 12:22:53 PM
Really?
Then Ben Howland and Bruce Pearl are among the top contenders for the Iowa job.
Must be true. I read it on a message board.
And Bobby Knight and Lute Olsen are among the candidates at Seton Hall. So sayeth a message board.
Are you honestly this clueless, or is this just another attempt at being smug and condescending?
As I said, there are outliers. For example, in 2008 there were people on this board that put forth Bobby Knight's name as a candidate for the MU job, right alongside Sean Miller and Tony Bennett. I don't think anybody took that as a serious suggestion.
*MOST* people here understood the difference between the serious names (Bennett, Miller, Lowrey, Brownell, Les, Williams, etc.) and those names thrown out either as a joke or by the clueless (Knight, Deane, O'Neill, Calipari).
I'd be happy to explain further, but I suspect you already understand that fact.
In the meantime, I think its highly believable that Buzz would be on Iowa's short list, just as MU fans had Bennett and Miller on MU's list.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2010, 01:10:15 PM
Never trust what a coach says. I can give you 20 examples just in the last 5 years of coaches saying almost the same thing and they went elsewhere. That doesn't mean I think Buzz is going anywhere, but those cliches by coaches mean nothing
Almost never trust a post that begins with never. Because many coaches are not trustworthy does not mean Buzz is a liar.
Nor did anyone call him a liar or even hint at that. Instead, what was said is to trust what comes out of a coaches mouth about their happiness at school A is a fool's errand. Believe at your own risk.
The coaching landscape is littered with coaches who said they were happy as clams and would be staying only to have themselves in a different locker room 24 hours later in some cases. It happens all the time and each time the fan base is sitting their with their thumb up their rear end saying "but he promised"..."but he said he would never leave"..."but he said he was so happy"
Personally, I think Buzz isn't going anywhere, but I don't believe in these comments that come out of their mouths because historically they have been proven to be so wrong for that occupation.
It's Iowa! It's Iowa!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 17, 2010, 01:49:58 PM
Almost never trust a post that begins with never. Because many coaches are not trustworthy does not mean Buzz is a liar.
That was clever how you did that...adding the "almost" on there at the beginning.
If Jeff Goodman or Gary Parrish start mentioning Buzz's name, we'll know Buzz is looking. Just as we knew TC was looking when Katz dropped his name.
Quote from: bma725 on March 17, 2010, 12:47:19 PM
The Big Ten Network brings in a boatload of money...
Have the numbers actually been released to the public? And I'm talking third-party audited numbers, not chicken scratches on a piece of paper that says: "From the Desk of Jim Delany."
I'm not 100% on this, but I recall that there was some question or controversy over the pro-forma numbers that were used to sell the schools on the network. Regardless, I remain skeptical on whether the BTN is the goldmine that the AD's are making it out to be.
Quote from: Benny B on March 17, 2010, 02:17:25 PM
Have the numbers actually been released to the public? And I'm talking third-party audited numbers, not chicken scratches on a piece of paper that says: "From the Desk of Jim Delany."
I'm not 100% on this, but I recall that there was some question or controversy over the pro-forma numbers that were used to sell the schools on the network. Regardless, I remain skeptical on whether the BTN is the goldmine that the AD's are making it out to be.
Trust me, it brings in a ton of money....for now.
QuoteMy vote for best screen name...
Thank you sir.....yours has to be in the running tho!
Quote from: Benny B on March 17, 2010, 02:17:25 PM
Have the numbers actually been released to the public? And I'm talking third-party audited numbers, not chicken scratches on a piece of paper that says: "From the Desk of Jim Delany."
I'm not 100% on this, but I recall that there was some question or controversy over the pro-forma numbers that were used to sell the schools on the network. Regardless, I remain skeptical on whether the BTN is the goldmine that the AD's are making it out to be.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/07/24/tv-deals/index.html
cmon fellas.
Crean to Indiana, you cant really blame him. You can be upset about how he went about it but it was one of the top programs in america.
Buzz to texas, maybe who knows? Could hardly blame him for that.
But Iowa? cmon, thats ridiculous.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2010, 02:20:07 PM
Trust me, it brings in a ton of money....for now.
Put it this way, Northwestern has a better TV deal than Texas. The BTN is genius.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 01:49:35 PM
Are you honestly this clueless, or is this just another attempt at being smug and condescending?
I'm only condescending to my inferiors. :)
And, really, someone who states there is a "strong correlation" between what is said on message board and what is happening in reality sees fit to label others as clueless?
Hmmm.
I guess that explains all the Crean to Indiana reports before April 1, 2008.
Anyhow, methinks you don't understand the meaning of rumor.
Me stating "I'd like to go home and find Brooklyn Decker waiting for me in my bed. Naked." is not a rumor that she actually was seen undressing in the vicinity of my bedroom. It is not a rumor that she made plans to visit me. It is not a rumor that she has a thing for me.
It is me stating a wish.
Likewise, some guy on an Iowa message board stating that Buzz Williams is someone he'd like his team to consider for its head coaching vacancy is not a rumor. It does not mean there are reports of Iowa's AD contacting Marquette for permission to interview. Or that Buzz is on the AD's short list. Or that either party even has any interest in the other.
It is that particular fan stating a wish.
Just curious what the "for now" is. I'm guessing it's proposed a la carte channel line-ups, or is it when the initial contracts expire with providers.
The Rumor that worries me would be Texas A&M's coach to OU. I guess he was an assitant for a bunch of years. If that job opened I would worry a little. If the Texas job opened I would drive Buzz to Austin myself, Luckily Barnes is going no where.
As longs as were throwing our scenarios out there...heres mine:
Coach K retires
Jeff Capel to Duke
Buzz to Oklahoma
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 17, 2010, 02:21:36 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/07/24/tv-deals/index.html
Yes I saw that link previously... and this is exactly what I'm saying: the numbers they're quoting are not contractual (like they are with CBS, ESPN, etc.), those are projected income figures. I can tell you that 99% of projections are inflated, the question is how inflated.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 17, 2010, 01:49:58 PM
Almost never trust a post that begins with never. Because many coaches are not trustworthy does not mean Buzz is a liar.
I agree with you.
BUT... to be fair, if UT came calling tomorrow, I have think Buzz would consider it, and I wouldn't blame him.
Soooo, I don't think Buzz is a liar (far from it), but situations can change in a minute, and I think that's what turns a lot of coaches into "liars".
I don't say this as a knock on Buzz at all, I just say this because
eventually 1 of 2 things is going to happen: Buzz is going to fired or Buzz is going to take another job. Those are really the only 2 options with a coach his age. I don't expect him to be at MU for 30 years and retire.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 17, 2010, 02:37:32 PM
I agree with you.
BUT... to be fair, if UT came calling tomorrow, I have think Buzz would consider it, and I wouldn't blame him.
Soooo, I don't think Buzz is a liar (far from it), but situations can change in a minute, and I think that's what turns a lot of coaches into "liars".
I don't say this as a knock on Buzz at all, I just say this because eventually 1 of 2 things is going to happen: Buzz is going to fired or Buzz is going to take another job. Those are really the only 2 options with a coach his age. I don't expect him to be at MU for 30 years and retire.
You're right, which is why coaches shouldn't make comments like that. I understand the need/desire to ... after all, it keeps administrators, fans and recruits happy ... but it comes back to bite these guys more often than not.
I have no doubt Buzz means it when he says it. But, like you said, situations change, people change, etc.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2010, 02:54:32 PM
You're right, which is why coaches shouldn't make comments like that. I understand the need/desire to ... after all, it keeps administrators, fans and recruits happy ... but it comes back to bite these guys more often than not.
I have no doubt Buzz means it when he says it. But, like you said, situations change, people change, etc.
Yea, I know people love the warm fuzzy feeling they get when he says it (I like it too), but at the end of the day this is big business and big money.
Wins and ultimately $ are going to determine a lot of fates.
Why can't the other major conferences duplicate whatever the Big Ten Network is doing to drive revenues? There is nothing all that unique about the Big Ten compared to the other BCS conferences. I would even imagine some of the western conferences who are crazy about their football would do well with a network.
I just don't think that it is all that complicated of a thing. I mean, wouldn't Texas be crazy to think that the Big 12 would not be able to duplicate those kinds of revenue streams from a Big 12 Network?
I really appreciate the MUTV coverage of our team. Hopefully they can find a way to generate some advertising revenue from that. Media is headed more towards internet viewing so that people can choose when to watch stuff like that rather than a coach's half hour show on the Big Ten Network. Recruits can click on MUTV specials all they want rather than flip through the channels and find the Tom Izzo Show on channel 76.
Finally, I think that DePaul actually getting a coach who can recruit players will help us. Marq, ND, and DePaul are designed to get Chicago (and Milwaukee to a lesser extent) excited about the Big East and the Big East Net. As long as we can keep our tradition of one Chicago guard in the lineup (Wade, Chapman, McNeal, Acker, ?Smith?) let Chicago have a good team. It could be good for our bottom line.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 17, 2010, 02:37:32 PM
I agree with you.
BUT... to be fair, if UT came calling tomorrow, I have think Buzz would consider it, and I wouldn't blame him.
Soooo, I don't think Buzz is a liar (far from it), but situations can change in a minute, and I think that's what turns a lot of coaches into "liars".
I don't say this as a knock on Buzz at all, I just say this because eventually 1 of 2 things is going to happen: Buzz is going to fired or Buzz is going to take another job. Those are really the only 2 options with a coach his age. I don't expect him to be at MU for 30 years and retire.
Well said.
As for the message board argument, I think a little bit of both happens. Obviously most of it is blather and conjecture based on pipe dreams and fantasies by fans that know nothing. On the Iowa board right now there is a poster saying Buzz has sent feelers. Yeah, right.
On the other hand, almost every board also has a few people that are close enough to their said program to have some kernels of truth when it comes to candidates, speculation, etc. Those get floated out there sometimes as trial balloons as well as in the media. Usually by an "unnamed" source so the athletic department can deny the candidate was ever on the list if the trial balloon goes over like a fart in church.
So it's a bit of both. I'd lean to 75% of the conjecture to be in category 1.....that is totally baseless, dart throwing speculation. Maybe even 90%, but there are also some legit threads on real candidates that are on most boards as well.
Buzz seems different than any other coach I have followed. How many speak of and are religious (for real, not just acting like it). How many say "i am the coach of X school" when asked about another job, or their current job? Most.
Buzz says, very carefully, that he will stay at MU as long as MU will have him. That is a strong statement from someone who has gone out of his way to be blunt and a truth teller. For whatever reason, I believe him. He doesn't operate nor does he try to operate like a smooth talker, two faced guy. So many coaches are two faced.
Can this change? Sure. But I don't expect it to change anytime soon, regardless of the position(s) that opens up. I believe he is commite to MU at this time and a job opening won't change that. I believe him to be a man of his word (and I wouldn't have said this about Crean or most coaches) If he is telling recruits and players that he will be at MU, it seems that it should actually be believed coming from Buzz.
Maybe I'm crazy, but something about Buzz has me believing him, and believing that he will be at MU for a long time (and I think Buzz sees him winning at MU). Plus, he did say that his wife said that she loves their life and now they finally have a place to call home.
Quote from: GOO on March 17, 2010, 04:26:01 PM
Buzz seems different than any other coach I have followed. How many speak of and are religious (for real, not just acting like it). How many say "i am the coach of X school" when asked about another job, or their current job? Most.
Buzz says, very carefully, that he will stay at MU as long as MU will have him. That is a strong statement from someone who has gone out of his way to be blunt and a truth teller. For whatever reason, I believe him. He doesn't operate nor does he try to operate like a smooth talker, two faced guy. So many coaches are two faced.
Can this change? Sure. But I don't expect it to change anytime soon, regardless of the position(s) that opens up. I believe he is commite to MU at this time and a job opening won't change that. I believe him to be a man of his word (and I wouldn't have said this about Crean or most coaches) If he is telling recruits and players that he will be at MU, it seems that it should actually be believed coming from Buzz.
Maybe I'm crazy, but something about Buzz has me believing him, and believing that he will be at MU for a long time (and I think Buzz sees him winning at MU). Plus, he did say that his wife said that she loves their life and now they finally have a place to call home.
I hope you're right.
I'm probably just too jaded to put much stock in that kind of stuff.
With Buzz, his character will be revealed.
Leaving would not be a good idea for Buzz anyway. The guy has paid his dues with hard work, but he did skip a big step. Usually coaches have to coach at a mid-major or take a down program like Iowa for a few years. Buzz was lucky to walk right into a program on the rise with NBA-caliber players on the team when he starts coaching.
With one year as a head coach, Buzz was coaching a top 10 team against hall of famer Jim Calhoun for first place in the Big East. That is a big, big jump. I think Buzz knows that.
Buzz may leave some day, but he would be smarter to learn a lot like Crean did. There are not many jobs better than Marquette, but one may open up some day for Buzz. I doubt he will be considered for those top jobs for a while to come. I just don't think that he will continue to bounce around. He is not leaving any time soon. He does owe Marquette something for taking a chance on him, and he knows that. He will be here for 5-10 more years, and maybe when he is closer to 50 he might take Coach K's job or something. Or else maybe he will be here for 30 years and retire.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 17, 2010, 04:31:43 PM
I hope you're right.
I'm probably just too jaded to put much stock in that kind of stuff.
wait, you put stock in anything?
I am interested.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2010, 02:22:21 PM
I'm only condescending to my inferiors. :)
And, really, someone who states there is a "strong correlation" between what is said on message board and what is happening in reality sees fit to label others as clueless?
Hmmm.
I guess that explains all the Crean to Indiana reports before April 1, 2008.
Anyhow, methinks you don't understand the meaning of rumor.
Me stating "I'd like to go home and find Brooklyn Decker waiting for me in my bed. Naked." is not a rumor that she actually was seen undressing in the vicinity of my bedroom. It is not a rumor that she made plans to visit me. It is not a rumor that she has a thing for me.
It is me stating a wish.
Likewise, some guy on an Iowa message board stating that Buzz Williams is someone he'd like his team to consider for its head coaching vacancy is not a rumor. It does not mean there are reports of Iowa's AD contacting Marquette for permission to interview. Or that Buzz is on the AD's short list. Or that either party even has any interest in the other.
It is that particular fan stating a wish.
Sorry--I overreacted.
However, if you believe that most message board fans aren't thinking on the same wavelength as the powers that be at any major school, then we'll simply disagree.
As we saw in 2008, its not that difficult for the fans to collectively identify virtually every likely candidate--and they do so within the first 24 hours.
I gave you the example of Marquette--most (if not all) of the names MU actually considered were also among those mentioned on this message board, and the preference expressed by fans was roughly equal to that of the AD's office. The biggest difference is that some fans (myself excluded) preferred a mid-major head coach over Buzz once the top choices of Miller and Bennett turned us down.
So maybe, based on your precise defintion of "rumor", you are technically correct.
My point is simply this: if Iowa fans are as good a proxy for their AD's thinking as MU fans were for ours in 2008, then Buzz Williams name is written on a legal pad or whiteboard somewhere in the Iowa AD's office.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 05:01:01 PM
Sorry--I overreacted.
However, if you believe that most message board fans aren't thinking on the same wavelength as the powers that be at any major school, then we'll simply disagree.
As we saw in 2008, its not that difficult for the fans to collectively identify virtually every likely candidate--and they do so within the first 24 hours.
I gave you the example of Marquette--most (if not all) of the names MU actually considered were also among those mentioned on this message board, and the preference expressed by fans was roughly equal to that of the AD's office. The biggest difference is that some fans (myself excluded) preferred a mid-major head coach over Buzz once the top choices of Miller and Bennett turned us down.
So maybe, based on your precise defintion of "rumor", you are technically correct.
My point is simply this: if Iowa fans are as good a proxy for their AD's thinking as MU fans were for ours in 2008, then Buzz Williams name is written on a legal pad or whiteboard somewhere in the Iowa AD's office.
Iowa or Depaul considering Dixon, Howland, Jay Wright or Buzz Williams as candidates is entirely different than any of those coaches considering either of those jobs longer than it takes them to stop laughing. Who cares if Buzz' name is on Iowa's whiteboard?
Quote from: Ready2Fly on March 17, 2010, 05:18:35 PM
Iowa or Depaul considering Dixon, Howland, Jay Wright or Buzz Williams as candidates is entirely different than any of those coaches considering either of those jobs longer than it takes them to stop laughing. Who cares if Buzz' name is on Iowa's whiteboard?
Ready2fly is dead on. Right now we have Iowa basically creating a wish list. Most of these coaches are not considering Iowa, so it is just a wish list. If there is no mutual interest, it means nothing!!
Just like if Crean were interested in the Kansas or Kentucky job, but they had no interest in Crean, it would just be Crean's wish list, with no mutual interest. It goes both ways. But unless Buzz is interested, which I believe he is not, then it means zip as far as we are concerned.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2010, 04:07:52 PM
Well said.
On the Iowa board right now there is a poster saying Buzz has sent feelers. Yeah, right.
Where is this? I could not find it?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 17, 2010, 04:35:46 PM
Buzz was lucky to walk right into a program on the rise with NBA-caliber players on the team when he starts coaching.
NBA players? Can't be.
I keep hearing that the cupboard was bare when Buzz took over.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 17, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
Finally, I think that DePaul actually getting a coach who can recruit players will help us.
Look at DePaul's period of success. It coincides with MU's worst era in the last 50 years.
Look at MU's periods of success. They coincide with the stretches where DePaul has been terrible.
Compare the two team's NCAA performances--how many times do you think we've both been in the tourney at the same time? My guess is you will be surprised at how small the number is.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 17, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
Marq, ND, and DePaul are designed to get Chicago (and Milwaukee to a lesser extent) excited about the Big East and the Big East Net. As long as we can keep our tradition of one Chicago guard in the lineup (Wade, Chapman, McNeal, Acker, ?Smith?) let Chicago have a good team. It could be good for our bottom line.
If Milwaukee isn't excited about the Big East by now, they never will be.
5 straight NCAA appearances. Five straight finishes in the upper echelon. Five straight 10+ win seasons. If that doesn't do it, I seriously doubt that a successful DePaul is going to do it.
DePaul needs more than a big name coach. Start with new facilities and support from administration. without either it will always be considered a commuter school.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 05:27:01 PM
NBA players? Can't be.
I keep hearing that the cupboard was bare when Buzz took over.
Perhaps someone needs to teach you the difference between the dining table and the cupboard...
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 17, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
Why can't the other major conferences duplicate whatever the Big Ten Network is doing to drive revenues? There is nothing all that unique about the Big Ten compared to the other BCS conferences. I would even imagine some of the western conferences who are crazy about their football would do well with a network.
I just don't think that it is all that complicated of a thing. I mean, wouldn't Texas be crazy to think that the Big 12 would not be able to duplicate those kinds of revenue streams from a Big 12 Network?
I really appreciate the MUTV coverage of our team. Hopefully they can find a way to generate some advertising revenue from that. Media is headed more towards internet viewing so that people can choose when to watch stuff like that rather than a coach's half hour show on the Big Ten Network. Recruits can click on MUTV specials all they want rather than flip through the channels and find the Tom Izzo Show on channel 76.
Finally, I think that DePaul actually getting a coach who can recruit players will help us. Marq, ND, and DePaul are designed to get Chicago (and Milwaukee to a lesser extent) excited about the Big East and the Big East Net. As long as we can keep our tradition of one Chicago guard in the lineup (Wade, Chapman, McNeal, Acker, ?Smith?) let Chicago have a good team. It could be good for our bottom line.
They could, but it's not that easy. The SEC went down that path, then ESPN gave them a $1billion to not form their own network. The Mountain West did create their own network (The Mountain) and it's been a mixed deal for them. They had tremendous trouble getting carriage from television distributors.
The Big Ten Network also had major troubles for a long time getting everyone on board. When the new contracts come up, it shall be interesting to see what happens. The advantage the Big Ten has is the size of their schools. The largest public universities in the country (sans Northwestern) with huge alumni bases. That means eyeballs and $$$. Of course, the disadvantage is that it's the Big Ten. For all the predictions that the conference would be rolling in basketball and football national titles as a result, well that hasn't happened. Nor has Notre Dame become a top ten program with their NBC deal for football. The more you're on tv is great for exposure, but it can also "expose" teams, too. Show how bad they are, how cold the weather is, how S L O W the athletes are, etc, etc.
The only other leagues that could pull off what the Big Ten did and do it well is probably the Big 12 and the SEC. We already know the SEC is in bed with ESPN. The Pac Ten is looking to do their own network, but they won't have anywhere close to the carriage that the Big Ten does. The Big East problem is that they are dominated in many "pro" markets where they have eyeballs, but pro sports comes first. I think the Big East is attached to ESPN for many years as their own network is highly unlikely due to the startup costs, etc.
The ACC may try also, but they are more niche regionally then they will admit. The television numbers don't lie, especially in football.
Quote from: GOO on March 17, 2010, 04:26:01 PM
Maybe I'm crazy, but something about Buzz has me believing him, and believing that he will be at MU for a long time (and I think Buzz sees him winning at MU). Plus, he did say that his wife said that she loves their life and now they finally have a place to call home.
They all say this. Again, doesn't make Buzz a liar or wrong or whatever, but they all say the same thing. "My family is happy here, my wife is active in the community, my kids love the schools, etc, etc"
It's all about opportunity. I have no reason to believe he won't be here for a decade if we choose to have him, but I also have no reason to believe anything any coaches in football or basketball say on this matter because they all say exact same thing....because they are trained to do so.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 17, 2010, 04:47:22 PM
wait, you put stock in anything?
I am interested.
Wellllll...
I really like Buzz, and I like what he says about coaching at MU.
Buuuuuuutttttttt....
If he keeps winning (for a number of years) he's going to be a candidate for a highly attractive job. If he loses, he's going to be a candidate to get fired.
These are the stone cold facts in modern college hoops. No avoiding that, no matter who the coach is.
I like that Buzz says things like "I'll coach here as long as they will have me", but realistically I think that's just "coach speak". I'm not calling him a liar, I'm just saying that situations are going to change and evolve as the seasons go by, and I won't blame him if he chooses to move on at some point.
With all of this said, I would be thrilled to be wrong and have Buzz coach at MU for 25 years.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 17, 2010, 05:52:58 PM
Perhaps someone needs to teach you the difference between the dining table and the cupboard...
There has to be something in the cupboard in order to put it on the dining table . . .
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 17, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
Why can't the other major conferences duplicate whatever the Big Ten Network is doing to drive revenues?
Maybe Chicos can set me straight .... I thought the Big East had its own network, it's called ESPN. Seriously, the original purpose of ESPN was to televise Uconn bball games. Its headquartered in Bristol CT and stocked full of BE graduates. When it comes to basketball, what conference gets a better billing than the BE on ESPN? (away from Duke, how much attention does the rest of ACC really get on ESPN?)
It is my understanding that they also get a lot of money from ESPN. More than they would if they pulled their product off ESPN and put it on channel 685, the BE network.
Am I getting tired or did I just read that there is a strong correlation between what is on a message board and what actually happens when coaches are hired? I hope not.
a Little English/Logic/Critical Thinking Skills Lesson for you kids: What is discussed on a message board and reality is not a correlation, it's COINCIDENCE.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2010, 05:54:14 PM
The Big Ten Network also had major troubles for a long time getting everyone on board.
The BTN had a big fight with Comcast in Chicago. The BTN wanted to be on the basic tier and Comcast wanted them on some upper tier and part of a ultra premium sports package, Finally, the Big Ten pulled all their product off comcast. As Chicos noted their are probably hundreds of thousands of Big Ten alumni in the Chicago area and it took two years of bitching (along with their competitors carrying the BTN on basic) before Comcast caved in.
So it not hat easy to start a network. You will initially be put on channel 726 and subcribes will have to pay big premiums to get it. To get anywhere near basic is hard.
Think about this .... The second largest BE market is Chicago. For a BE network to happen (assuming they want to start one), it would really help if DePaul was a top 15 program.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 08:49:32 PM
There has to be something in the cupboard in order to put it on the dining table . . .
TC left enough for one very nice meal.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2010, 02:20:07 PM
Trust me, it brings in a ton of money....for now.
It will only get bigger, the Big 11 will expand into the east coast market...
I think Rutgers will be a lock, and the other 2 will be one of the fallowing...
ND (longshot)
Texas (longshot)
Syracuse
Pitt
Mizzu
as far as Buzz... The only way I can see him leaving for Iowa is "money"... Iowa is a tough place to win consistently. I think the folks at Iowa are delusional. Dr. Tom was probably the most successful coach Iowa has ever had and they forced him out. Alford won a little, and they forced him out. In my opinion MU is a superior job.
But if Buzz keeps winning teams will come after him.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 17, 2010, 08:57:45 PM
Am I getting tired or did I just read that there is a strong correlation between what is on a message board and what actually happens when coaches are hired? I hope not.
a Little English/Logic/Critical Thinking Skills Lesson for you kids: What is discussed on a message board and reality is not a correlation, it's COINCIDENCE.
So I guess what you're saying is that when MU fans identified Sean Miller and Tony Bennett as potential targets for MU's coaching search, I was giving them too much credit for actually thinking about it and making the same rational decision that MU's AD would make.
You're saying it was
pure coincidence that MU fans identified rather quickly the first two candidates that MU actually pursued. I guess we'll just disagree--I think that a team's fans are probably thinking much the same way as a team's AD.
But let's force you into a little English/Logic/Critical Thinking Skills lesson of your own:
If you were the Iowa AD right now, why would you NOT at least put out a feeler to Buzz Williams? You have the money. You're the flagship campus in state. You have an arguably more secure conference future. A bigger fan base. One of the 15 largest university-owned facilities in the country, currently getting a renovation that will make its practice facilities among the best in the nation.
Coach K or Roy retiring will scare me, but they should probably coach a while longer I'd imagine. Calipari, Self, and Ben Howland are going to be around for a while given their ages. (I think either Cal goes to the Nets now, at a time Buzz isn't qualified for KY, or he stays there a while). Indiana isn't coming back to MU if Crean doesn't work. That's a wrap on the elite schools. UConn, Cuse, and Gtown probably would not attract Buzz bc he would come back here all the time and its not a big enough step up to betray MU and come to the BC every other year to hear about it. I am not worried about Buzz leaving for those in the next 5-10 years.
That just leaves the TX schools... Who knows what would happen. I know if I were ever a college coach and Marquette or DePaul or another area school called, I would at least listen. Bill Self even listed to OK State for a little while because that was his home.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 17, 2010, 09:47:53 PM
Coach K or Roy retiring will scare me, but they should probably coach a while longer I'd imagine. Calipari, Self, and Ben Howland are going to be around for a while given their ages. (I think either Cal goes to the Nets now, at a time Buzz isn't qualified for KY, or he stays there a while). Indiana isn't coming back to MU if Crean doesn't work. That's a wrap on the elite schools. UConn, Cuse, and Gtown probably would not attract Buzz bc he would come back here all the time and its not a big enough step up to betray MU and come to the BC every other year to hear about it. I am not worried about Buzz leaving for those in the next 5-10 years.
That just leaves the TX schools... Who knows what would happen. I know if I were ever a college coach and Marquette or DePaul or another area school called, I would at least listen. Bill Self even listed to OK State for a little while because that was his home.
when T Boone Pickens calls you listen.... he pays top dollar... :)
Buzz Williams not going to get an interview with anybody for at least a couple years and if Marquette were to somehow discover he was sending out feelers they should fire him on the spot.
QuoteCoach K or Roy retiring will scare me,
No need to worry about either; both will replace their current coaches with someone from their "coaching families" when the time comes.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 17, 2010, 09:39:05 PM
So I guess what you're saying is that when MU fans identified Sean Miller and Tony Bennett as potential targets for MU's coaching search, I was giving them too much credit for actually thinking about it and making the same rational decision that MU's AD would make.
You're saying it was pure coincidence that MU fans identified rather quickly the first two candidates that MU actually pursued. I guess we'll just disagree--I think that a team's fans are probably thinking much the same way as a team's AD.
But let's force you into a little English/Logic/Critical Thinking Skills lesson of your own:
If you were the Iowa AD right now, why would you NOT at least put out a feeler to Buzz Williams? You have the money. You're the flagship campus in state. You have an arguably more secure conference future. A bigger fan base. One of the 15 largest university-owned facilities in the country, currently getting a renovation that will make its practice facilities among the best in the nation.
I'm simply saying that your use of correlation was inaccurate. It is coincidence and nothing else. What message board typers wish/want/desire/dream has no correlation with the decisions an AD makes. Get a dictionary before you reply.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 17, 2010, 08:55:31 PM
Maybe Chicos can set me straight .... I thought the Big East had its own network, it's called ESPN. Seriously, the original purpose of ESPN was to televise Uconn bball games. Its headquartered in Bristol CT and stocked full of BE graduates. When it comes to basketball, what conference gets a better billing than the BE on ESPN? (away from Duke, how much attention does the rest of ACC really get on ESPN?)
It is my understanding that they also get a lot of money from ESPN. More than they would if they pulled their product off ESPN and put it on channel 685, the BE network.
the BE is one of many contracts at ESPN, many many contracts.
Yeah those message posters are really sharp cookies.
One guy on Rivals started a thread with the title "How about Scott Skiles?"
The moron didn't even know Skiles was coaching the Bucks.
Somebody else posted. "He is the head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. I'll pass"
So let me get this straight.....One of them doesn't know Skiles coaches in the NBA and the guy who does says Skiles isn't good enough for IOWA? :o
Are they so dense that they don't know how much NBA coaches get paid and that none of them would ever leave an NBA job for a college job unless he got fired?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 17, 2010, 08:55:31 PM
Maybe Chicos can set me straight .... I thought the Big East had its own network, it's called ESPN. Seriously, the original purpose of ESPN was to televise Uconn bball games. Its headquartered in Bristol CT and stocked full of BE graduates. When it comes to basketball, what conference gets a better billing than the BE on ESPN? (away from Duke, how much attention does the rest of ACC really get on ESPN?)
It is my understanding that they also get a lot of money from ESPN. More than they would if they pulled their product off ESPN and put it on channel 685, the BE network.
Well, it's just a marketing thing really. The Big East Network is a compilation of games done by ESPN Regional which then packages the games up for networks like SNY, MASN, etc. The games cover 24 states and about 50,000,000 homes when you add in all the networks \ packages (ESPN Full Court) that are carrying them.
But that's different then the Big Ten Network which is really a dedicated 24/7 channel that only plays Big Ten games and\or content (coaches shows, etc). It's basically a 24/7 infomercial for fans in the Midwest and reminders to recruits in warm weather climates why they would never want to go there. ;)
Quote from: MuMark on March 17, 2010, 10:35:05 PM
Yeah those message posters are really sharp cookies.
One guy on Rivals started a thread with the title "How about Scott Skiles?"
The moron didn't even know Skiles was coaching the Bucks.
Somebody else posted. "He is the head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. I'll pass"
So let me get this straight.....One of them doesn't know Skiles coaches in the NBA and the guy who does says Skiles isn't good enough for IOWA? :o
Are they so dense that they don't know how much NBA coaches get paid and that none of them would ever leave an NBA job for a college job unless he got fired?
In another thread they are debating if they should take Jay Wright or Jamie Dixon if both accepted their offers.
CHatted with a Hawkeye buddy today, and after I got done ripping Pearl and all he had done his comment was.... "I think that is exactly what Iowa needs, great energy. Buzz really doesn't do much for me." I just don't get it, oh well. They will probably end up with someone like Chris Lowery from SIU.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2010, 11:21:37 PM
Well, it's just a marketing thing really. The Big East Network is a compilation of games done by ESPN Regional which then packages the games up for networks like SNY, MASN, etc. The games cover 24 states and about 50,000,000 homes when you add in all the networks \ packages (ESPN Full Court) that are carrying them.
But that's different then the Big Ten Network which is really a dedicated 24/7 channel that only plays Big Ten games and\or content (coaches shows, etc). It's basically a 24/7 infomercial for fans in the Midwest and reminders to recruits in warm weather climates why they would never want to go there. ;)
Chico, based on what you know, would the BE make more money with their own network channel?
And, these informericals are big for fat middle aged alumni (like me) but do you think this stuff sways any 18 year FB or BB recruit? I'd be shocked if you say yes.
... to be fair I could see if mattering for a soccer player or a track runner. The BTN has so much time to fill they can, or their parents and friends, DVR many of their games.
Quote from: MU_B2002 on March 17, 2010, 11:34:09 PM
CHatted with a Hawkeye buddy today, and after I got done ripping Pearl and all he had done his comment was.... "I think that is exactly what Iowa needs, great energy. Buzz really doesn't do much for me." I just don't get it, oh well. They will probably end up with someone like Chris Lowery from SIU.
Are they low of their quota of players getting arrested on weapons charges?
http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2010/01/01/four-tennessee-players-reportedly-arrested/
I thought maybe he was confused as to who Bruce Pearl was, but unfortunately he was not. Then I asked why Pearl would leave UT, and the response, yep you guessed it, "Because it's the Big 10."
Quote from: MU_B2002 on March 17, 2010, 11:41:08 PM
I thought maybe he was confused as to who Bruce Pearl was, but unfortunately he was not. Then I asked why Pearl would leave UT, and the response, yep you guessed it, "Because it's the Big 10."
It's must be nice to live in their little happy world.
Quote from: MU_B2002 on March 17, 2010, 11:41:08 PM
I thought maybe he was confused as to who Bruce Pearl was, but unfortunately he was not. Then I asked why Pearl would leave UT, and the response, yep you guessed it, "Because it's the Big 10."
Ask him this ... why is Kentucky paying Calipari $32 million (over 8 years)? The highest paid coach in college bball. KU has everything, facilities, reputation, tradition, rapid fans, huge arena, etc.. By his logic, shouldn't a coach take
less money to go to this situation, not more?
If they get Pearl, it's only because of one reason ... they spend HUGE dollars, so many dollars that Tennessee lets him go. Coaches like Pearl don't care about the other stuff, that's for fans and alumni. Coaches like Pearl only care about money.
Their football coach, Kirk Ferentz, is a god in Iowa City. He makes $21 million over 7 years. Are they ready to make him the second highest paid coach and risk pissing him off? I say no.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 17, 2010, 11:35:34 PM
Chico, based on what you know, would the BE make more money with their own network channel?
And, these informericals are big for fat middle aged alumni (like me) but do you think this stuff sways any 18 year FB or BB recruit? I'd be shocked if you say yes.
... to be fair I could see if mattering for a soccer player or a track runner. The BTN has so much time to fill they can, or their parents and friends, DVR many of their games.
I'd have to run the numbers and that would take a week or two. The BTN was pretty ballsy and no one was really sure if it would make it, but it did....thus far. The problem with a Big East channel is that I don't think they would get national distribution and or placement at a high penetration tier. That means less eyeballs, less cut from the DIRECTV, DISH, Time Warner cables of the world, and less advertising dollars.
With all the startup costs and the need to broadcast a 16 team conference, it would be a lot riskier than the BTN launch. In my opinion.
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on March 17, 2010, 09:51:00 PM
when T Boone Pickens calls you listen.... he pays top dollar... :)
You listen even if he's not offering you a job, too.
I heard from a little bird.......... Rick Majerus is interested. That would be a "Home Run" from Iowa..... ;)
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on March 18, 2010, 07:09:33 AM
You listen even if he's not offering you a job, too.
Don't kid yourself.... OSU did in fact inquire about Self... And Bill parlayed it into a "new" contract at Kansas...........
It is a simple fact of life... you either pony up the cheez or you lose your assets...
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on March 18, 2010, 02:29:14 PM
I heard from a little bird.......... Rick Majerus is interested. That would be a "Home Run" from Iowa..... ;)
They don't need an old X's and O's brillant coach. They need a Crean with some energy to come in and get lucky with some recruits and get their program back.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 17, 2010, 11:35:34 PM
Chico, based on what you know, would the BE make more money with their own network channel?
And, these informericals are big for fat middle aged alumni (like me) but do you think this stuff sways any 18 year FB or BB recruit? I'd be shocked if you say yes.
... to be fair I could see if mattering for a soccer player or a track runner. The BTN has so much time to fill they can, or their parents and friends, DVR many of their games.
Not without Football. Football is huge and the BE is the weakest power conf on the gridiron.