http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/sources_roberts_will_be_out_at_st_FlDAcnbK6Ky5bo3UVmXqHI
The past couple years I thought they were insane for keeping him due to poor play, a slew of transfers, etc. Though there were a couple articles out there talking about the lack of investment in the program and things like that, which really is unfortunate when you're in NYC and have the Garden handed to you. Roberts got the team to play hard this year, but doesn't look like much was in the recruiting pipeline, and when you're still 13th after getting the team to play hard it which makes the move easier.
Seth Greenburg mention would be interesting.
This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?
Was Cubillan's three and Lazar's steal the DAGGER for Norm?
St. John's and DePaul...two sleeping giants in two of the largest markets in the country. They have both been half-a$$ing it for years, and they both are at a point where they need to decide what they want to be. They can continue down the road they have been on, or they can learn from schools like MU, Villanova, etc., and make the decisions and investments necessary to turn themselves back into real programs. If they choose the former, they might as well leave the Big East. If they choose the latter, they could both become pretty good, pretty quickly.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2010, 09:33:36 AM
St. John's and DePaul...two sleeping giants in two of the largest markets in the country. They have both been half-a$$ing it for years, and they both are at a point where they need to decide what they want to be. They can continue down the road they have been on, or they can learn from schools like MU, Villanova, etc., and make the decisions and investments necessary to turn themselves back into real programs. If they choose the former, they might as well leave the Big East. If they choose the latter, they could both become pretty good, pretty quickly.
I was just going to post the same thing. If they truly step up and want to play with the big boys, this conference gets even more crazy. On the flip side, who knows what is going on at UCONN with Calhoun's extension. You could see that program take a step back if he retires and the right hire not made there.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:22:46 AM
This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?
He's a good guy, but he has delivered no results in six years. They are in the bets conference in the world in the biggest city in the world, and the have stunk out loud as long as he's been there. With a very Junior filled team, I assume they are thinking they could be ok next year and will not be able to fire him, because once those guys are gone, it looks as if they could be right back to terrible.
Its kind of like the Mike Deane situation. He had done a decent job, but recruiting wasn't adequate, and the pipeline behind the guys like Henry and Nnamak wasn't there, and it was clear they were headed in the wrong direction. Whomever SJU hires will probably have a decent season next year, but they need to start recruiting immediately.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:22:46 AM
This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?
Unjust? You must be kidding. The guy has had 6 years, that's a life time in college basketball. He's had 1 winning season(barely) and never finished higher than 11th in the Big East. Despite all the talk of improvement this year, they finished 13th. His recruiting is abysmal. He brought in 1 consensus Top 100 player since he's been there and shows no signs of turning it around on that front. St. John's has truly become an after thought among the deepest talent base in the country. The time to go is now, before he screws it up any worse.
Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.
I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona. Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:22:46 AM
This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?
Their record and if lucky CBI bid is hardly delivering. They replace Mason Jr. with a three star forward next year. Then with TEN Juniors on the roster, all he has so far in the pipeline for 2011 is a 2-star point guard. With that roster imbalance and his history of having guys transfer, has he really done enough to earn the right to "start over", especially when he put himself in that position? And given this year's results, do you really trust Roberts to be the one to make the "all or nothing" run next year with the ten seniors?
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:42:26 AM
Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.
I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona. Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.
Miller will get the job done at AZ. I'd be shocked if he doesn't. The track record for the young coaches from Xavier moving on is pretty darn good.
It would be great for MU if St John's became a player. When the Big East splits we're going to need marquee non football schools. I'm worried Nova will go the football route, maybe even Georgetown.
I worry about a conf if we're the best team in it.
Quote from: The Lens on March 11, 2010, 09:48:02 AM
It would be great for MU if St John's became a player. When the Big East splits we're going to need marquee non football schools. I'm worried Nova will go the football route, maybe even Georgetown.
I worry about a conf if we're the best team in it.
We keep hearing about the football schools going their own way but let's get real here. BE football is an afterthought, an also ran, a non player, a non entity, a greased pig, a red haired step child. They cannot be serious. I think MAC football is better than BE. They should take stock before ruining what is actually the nation's best program, college hoops.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:42:26 AM
I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along.
If you feel that way, then you don't know much about basketball. Duke was already a great program before Coach K got there. They'd been to 4 Final Fours, won multiple conference championships in the ACC and Southern Conference, had multiple National Player of the Year winners and Hall of Fame coaches.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:53:23 AM
We keep hearing about the football schools going their own way but let's get real here. BE football is an afterthought, an also ran, a non player, a non entity, a greased pig, a red haired step child. They cannot be serious. I think MAC football is better than BE. They should take stock before ruining what is actually the nation's best program, college hoops.
Well, money talks. Besides, if there was a split in the BE, the football side would consist of Pitt, WV, Cuse, UConn, Rutgers, USF, Lou, Cincy. That lineup looks solid to me.
What happens if the rumblings of ND joining the Big Ten come to fruition. They werent in the Big East in Football anyway. So the Big East football stays as it is. What would this mean for Big East basketball? Anything?
Show me the money BM. No rings. They had success but were not elite. Providence and SHU have been to Final Fours. Does that make them elite?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2010, 09:39:47 AM
Its kind of like the Mike Deane situation. He had done a decent job, but recruiting wasn't adequate, and the pipeline behind the guys like Henry and Nnamak wasn't there, and it was clear they were headed in the wrong direction. Whomever SJU hires will probably have a decent season next year, but they need to start recruiting immediately.
Good comparison.
Quote from: bma725 on March 11, 2010, 10:00:03 AM
If you feel that way, then you don't know much about basketball. Duke was already a great program before Coach K got there. They'd been to 4 Final Fours, won multiple conference championships in the ACC and Southern Conference, had multiple National Player of the Year winners and Hall of Fame coaches.
Funny you should cast stones BMA, because you thought Norm Roberts was a GREAT recruiter not too long ago. And now you think his recruiting has been abysmal for all 6 years? interesting.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252)
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 11, 2010, 10:12:14 AM
Funny you should cast stones BMA, because you thought Norm Roberts was a GREAT recruiter not too long ago. And now you think his recruiting has been abysmal for all 6 years? interesting.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252)
How dare you challenge BM! He is a true insider, unlike you! Let him tell you so!
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on March 11, 2010, 10:04:16 AM
Well, money talks. Besides, if there was a split in the BE, the football side would consist of Pitt, WV, Cuse, UConn, Rutgers, USF, Lou, Cincy. That lineup looks solid to me.
That's what football consists of now as well. I trust that there is enough history, intelligence, and maturity that they can work out the money issue as they've been able to for 5 years running. What would the basketball side consist of for the football schools? No longer the best conference in the land without us, Nova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and a few doormats that give those schools enough wins to make the NCAAs year in and year out. And as far as the doormats, are Rutgers and USF, possibly even Cincy going to be willing to cast their basketball programs into the depths because they won't be able to compete with the powerhouses that remain? Who are they going to draw besides MAC or worse teams to make the football conference 10-12 teams and not be inferior to the Big Ten in basketball (and still remain so in football)? Even if Nova or even Georgetown decided to play football, are we really that useless that we wouldn't be able to work out an arrangement to remain in the conference without playing football? I doubt it.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 11, 2010, 10:12:14 AM
Funny you should cast stones BMA, because you thought Norm Roberts was a GREAT recruiter not too long ago. And now you think his recruiting has been abysmal for all 6 years? interesting.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252)
Did I say his recruiting was abysmal for all 6 years? No, I didn't. His recruiting for his first few years was good. He couldn't get most of the talented kids he brought in to perform, or in some cases even stay at St. John's, but he was able to bring them in.
The last few years(since I wrote that post 2 years ago) have been a very different story. He devoted a lot of time and energy to Lance Stephenson, then whiffed. He devoted a lot of time to Kevin Parrom, then whiffed. His 2009 class hasn't performed up to expectations. His 2010 class only includes one guy and he isn't a high level good prospect. Then there's his nearly non-existant 2011 class. He's got 10 juniors on his roster right now, so he'll have a boatload of scholarships available. Instead of realizing that and focusing on the 2011 class so they don't fall off a cliff, he's only made limited inroads in the class, and gotten 1 commit.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 10:06:19 AM
Show me the money BM. No rings. They had success but were not elite. Providence and SHU have been to Final Fours. Does that make them elite?
You said they were crap. They very clearly weren't. Big difference between success and crap.
Quote from: bma725 on March 11, 2010, 10:26:24 AM
You said they were crap. They very clearly weren't. Big difference between success and crap.
So is Providence College an elite program? Wisconsin must be better than Duke since the won it all back before there was a Berlin Wall.
Quote from: bma725 on March 11, 2010, 10:25:26 AM
Did I say his recruiting was abysmal for all 6 years? No, I didn't. His recruiting for his first few years was good. He couldn't get most of the talented kids he brought in to perform, or in some cases even stay at St. John's, but he was able to bring them in.
The last few years(since I wrote that post 2 years ago) have been a very different story. He devoted a lot of time and energy to Lance Stephenson, then whiffed. He devoted a lot of time to Kevin Parrom, then whiffed. His 2009 class hasn't performed up to expectations. His 2010 class only includes one guy and he isn't a high level good prospect. Then there's his nearly non-existant 2011 class. He's got 10 juniors on his roster right now, so he'll have a boatload of scholarships available. Instead of realizing that and focusing on the 2011 class so they don't fall off a cliff, he's only made limited inroads in the class, and gotten 1 commit.
No but you certainly alluded to it:
"The guy has had 6 years, that's a life time in college basketball."
"His recruiting is abysmal. He brought in 1 consensus Top 100 player
since he's been there and shows no signs of turning it around on that front."
Quote from: chapman on March 11, 2010, 10:17:21 AM
That's what football consists of now as well. I trust that there is enough history, intelligence, and maturity that they can work out the money issue as they've been able to for 5 years running. What would the basketball side consist of for the football schools? No longer the best conference in the land without us, Nova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and a few doormats that give those schools enough wins to make the NCAAs year in and year out. And as far as the doormats, are Rutgers and USF, possibly even Cincy going to be willing to cast their basketball programs into the depths because they won't be able to compete with the powerhouses that remain? Who are they going to draw besides MAC or worse teams to make the football conference 10-12 teams and not be inferior to the Big Ten in basketball (and still remain so in football)? Even if Nova or even Georgetown decided to play football, are we really that useless that we wouldn't be able to work out an arrangement to remain in the conference without playing football? I doubt it.
The basketball side would mirror the football side. Putting the football schools together would arguably create the best conference in the country. But, they won't be a seperate conference; the conference now would split into two divisions. And how does adding doormats help establish the strongest conference in the country? And why do they need to add football schools? there are 8 now and that's good enough for the bcs.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 11, 2010, 10:38:52 AM
No but you certainly alluded to it:
"The guy has had 6 years, that's a life time in college basketball."
"His recruiting is abysmal. He brought in 1 consensus Top 100 player since he's been there and shows no signs of turning it around on that front."
You're seeing something that are not there.
The first comment wasn't even about his recruiting, it was about how long it takes to turn around a program. Coaches very often turn around bad programs in less time than that, he hasn't been able to do so, that statement had nothing to do with the quality of his recruiting.
If I were talking about his recruiting as a whole, I would have said so. The reference to the 1 Top 100 player he's brought in before was to point out that his recruiting today isn't as good as it used to be. You're trying to compare a statement made today with things said two years ago, when his recruiting wasn't that bad. Since then, however, things have changed quite a bit.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 10:37:38 AM
So is Providence College an elite program? Wisconsin must be better than Duke since the won it all back before there was a Berlin Wall.
I don't know the issues between you guys in BMA. Or maybe you just don't like Duke but Duke is fifth all-time in NCAA wins. They are third all time in winning percentage. Since they've had basketball since 1903 I don't think you can attribute that all to Coach K.
We may not like it, but Duke is an elite program.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 10:37:38 AM
So is Providence College an elite program? Wisconsin must be better than Duke since the won it all back before there was a Berlin Wall.
Who said anything about Elite? You said Duke was a crap program before Coach K got there, and they weren't. crap programs are places like Northwestern who've never made the NCAA Tournament and have no history of success. Coach K took over a team coming off an Elite 8 appearance, that had been to 4 Final Fours in the previous 17 years. He made them better, but they were far from crap before he got there.
Quote from: bma725 on March 11, 2010, 11:06:38 AM
Who said anything about Elite? You said Duke was a crap program before Coach K got there, and they weren't. crap programs are places like Northwestern who've never made the NCAA Tournament and have no history of success. Coach K took over a team coming off an Elite 8 appearance, that had been to 4 Final Fours in the previous 17 years. He made them better, but they were far from crap before he got there.
why should he let a little thing like the facts get in the way?!
Quote from: bma725 on March 11, 2010, 11:06:38 AM
Who said anything about Elite?
Here is what I wrote: Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category?...I feel the same way about Duke, too.
So answer my question - you must then also consider PC to be an elite program and that UW was superior to pre-K Duke since they won a title back in the '40's.
Take away K's wins and Duke was a solid but hardly elite program. It will be interesting to see how the transition and post K era goes. The next shapter is more important in this mystery story, wouldn't you agree?
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 11:13:08 AM
Here is what I wrote: Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category?...I feel the same way about Duke, too.
So answer my question - you must then also consider PC to be an elite program and that UW was superior to pre-K Duke since they won a title back in the '40's.
Take away K's wins and Duke was a solid but hardly elite program. It will be interesting to see how the transition and post K era goes. The next shapter is more important in this mystery story, wouldn't you agree?
Here is what you wrote: "They were sheet until K came along." Nothing about the program was "sheet" before Coach K got there. What other schools did in the past is irrelevant to understanding what Duke was as a program before Coach K got there.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 11:13:08 AM
Here is what I wrote: Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category?...I feel the same way about Duke, too.
So answer my question - you must then also consider PC to be an elite program and that UW was superior to pre-K Duke since they won a title back in the '40's.
Take away K's wins and Duke was a solid but hardly elite program. It will be interesting to see how the transition and post K era goes. The next shapter is more important in this mystery story, wouldn't you agree?
To be accurate, this is what you said:
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:42:26 AM
Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.
I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona.Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.
Soooo, the answer is that no Duke probably wasn't "elite", but they weren't "sheet" as you so eloquently put.
EDIT: Ninja post by BMA. Well played, sir.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:42:26 AM
Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.
I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona. Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.
That is incorrect as it relates to Duke. They had a strong history prior to Coach K. Zona and UCONN were built on their coaches success, but that also puts them in a great position to continue being great with the right hires.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 09:42:26 AM
Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.
I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona. Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.
Uh, Duke lost in the NC2A final to UK in 1978 and were pretty darned good in the early and mid-60s. Far from sheet.
U of A made back-to-back tourneys in the mid- to late 70s but were poor for most of their history prior to that. But with just one senior and one junior on the roster, they ought to be back to being pretty good again sooner rather than later, maybe next year, but for sure in two years again I would imagine. The whole Pac 10 is similarly young and should make a similar improvement.
As for SJU, as a guy who sees a lot of similarities in the programs between MU and SJU, and therefore has a little bit of a soft spot for them, I thought Roberts had maybe earned himself one final shot, but Father Harrigan was pretty succinct at the end of last year that Roberts had to make the tourney this year to keep his job. I wouldn't have been distraught had he been given one more year to get the job done, but I also can see the argument that they were on a Deane-like slope. Just be sure to get someone better.
And BTW, SJU will make the NIT this year.
Quote from: chapman on March 11, 2010, 10:17:21 AM
That's what football consists of now as well. I trust that there is enough history, intelligence, and maturity that they can work out the money issue as they've been able to for 5 years running. What would the basketball side consist of for the football schools? No longer the best conference in the land without us, Nova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and a few doormats that give those schools enough wins to make the NCAAs year in and year out. And as far as the doormats, are Rutgers and USF, possibly even Cincy going to be willing to cast their basketball programs into the depths because they won't be able to compete with the powerhouses that remain? Who are they going to draw besides MAC or worse teams to make the football conference 10-12 teams and not be inferior to the Big Ten in basketball (and still remain so in football)? Even if Nova or even Georgetown decided to play football, are we really that useless that we wouldn't be able to work out an arrangement to remain in the conference without playing football? I doubt it.
Football $$$ is so much greater than basketball $$$ that any school with a football program is going to position themselves so they aren't the ones left standing when the music stops.
Furthermore, *if* the BE breaks apart, don't be too sure that the basketball schools are just going to automatically stay together. IMO, if that happens all sorts of things could pan out across all sorts of conferences. Right now, MU would be a valuable asset under such a scenario. We have to stay that way however.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2010, 09:33:36 AM
St. John's and DePaul...two sleeping giants in two of the largest markets in the country. They have both been half-a$$ing it for years, and they both are at a point where they need to decide what they want to be. They can continue down the road they have been on, or they can learn from schools like MU, Villanova, etc., and make the decisions and investments necessary to turn themselves back into real programs. If they choose the former, they might as well leave the Big East. If they choose the latter, they could both become pretty good, pretty quickly.
I don't know about St. John's., but I really have a hard time considering DePaul a "sleeping giant." They haven't been relevant in 25 years. Their program just stinks. No buzz at all in Chicago. Frankly, they are about a half-step up from Loyola at this point...and a staircase below their BE peers.
I dont even understand what difference it makes if Duke was elite before Coach K got there or not. Even if they were sheet - which they werent - but even if they were elite, the fact that Coach K made them successful doesn't mean you can't qualify the whole program as elite. He has been there for 30 years! How long does it take before you are willing to qualify a program as elite?
Similarly, Calhoun has been at UConn for almost 25 years.
In a quarter of a century, a lot changes. The commitment of schools to their basketball programs changes, how attractive schools and the regions in which they reside changes. That is plenty of time for a school to become elite.
History isnt exactly riddled with programs that have been dominant for the better part of 30 years only to fade into oblivion. Even if it were, if you are going to demand that a program has been great since Jim Crow laws prevented black players from playing on certain teams, any type of assessment as to elite or not loses any practical value anyway.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 11, 2010, 12:33:21 PM
Furthermore, *if* the BE breaks apart, don't be too sure that the basketball schools are just going to automatically stay together. IMO, if that happens all sorts of things could pan out across all sorts of conferences. Right now, MU would be a valuable asset under such a scenario. We have to stay that way however.
Agreed. And also that it's not like all the football schools are going to disassociate from any school without DI football. It's not like not having a football team discredits being the highest spending basketball program in the conference, one of two with five straight 10+ win seasons, or one of three with five straight NCAA appearances. We won't be asking football schools to give us all their football revenue, and they're not going to kick us (or Nova or GTown) to the curb simply because we don't have DI football teams when we're valuable assets to their conferences.
Quote from: chapman on March 11, 2010, 12:57:06 PM
Agreed. And also that it's not like all the football schools are going to disassociate from any school without DI football. It's not like not having a football team discredits being the highest spending basketball program in the conference, one of two with five straight 10+ win seasons, or one of three with five straight NCAA appearances. We won't be asking football schools to give us all their football revenue, and they're not going to kick us (or Nova or GTown) to the curb simply because we don't have DI football teams when we're valuable assets to their conferences.
But I guess my point is, if the BE breaks apart, and I'm MU, Georgetown or Nova, I would look real hard at every option before I just cast my lot with Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul. I would think that all sorts of options would be considered...including a conference that is some sort of combination of the BE and the A10. I mean, I would much rather look at schools like Xavier, Dayton and Temple - schools that actually invest money into their basketball programs.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 10:37:38 AM
So is Providence College an elite program? Wisconsin must be better than Duke since the won it all back before there was a Berlin Wall.
Guamite, if you were smart, you'd understand that BMA has great credibility. But, that's if you were smart.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 11, 2010, 11:13:08 AM
Here is what I wrote: Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category?...I feel the same way about Duke, too.
So answer my question - you must then also consider PC to be an elite program and that UW was superior to pre-K Duke since they won a title back in the '40's.
Take away K's wins and Duke was a solid but hardly elite program. It will be interesting to see how the transition and post K era goes. The next shapter is more important in this mystery story, wouldn't you agree?
This is just silly thinking. How was UCLA before Wooden? Kentucky before Rupp? Great coaches *can* turn programs from very good to elite.
Quote from: bma725 on March 11, 2010, 10:00:03 AM
If you feel that way, then you don't know much about basketball. Duke was already a great program before Coach K got there. They'd been to 4 Final Fours, won multiple conference championships in the ACC and Southern Conference, had multiple National Player of the Year winners and Hall of Fame coaches.
I was about to reply to the same thing. Duke was a name before K got there.
Exactly. How was Wisconsin before Bo Ryan \ Dick Bennett....basically a shiet program for 50+ years
I'll chime in here.
Norm Roberts has done a nice job of making us a respectable program after being involved in embarrassing scandals. However 6 years has been plenty of time to overcome this hurdle. We're in NYC a mega pipeline of talent and we just can't get it. Baylor didn't need 6 years to overcome their scandals (murder).
Its just time to move on and the time is now especially to give the new coach a year to recruit for 2011 where there are 9 scholarships opening up. In no way could Norm recruit next year with there being 0 certainty he'd be retained. It would be unfair to both him and the school.
As to the current talent he's brought in they're way better than what they've shown. I believe with all bias aside there is more talent on St. John's than there is on Marquette and that's no slight to MU. I'd love to see Buzz Williams coach the current crop of player at St. John's because this team could win a lot more with proper game planning, structure, and court discipline.
As to the future the kid thats coming in next year someone pointed out he's a 3 star recruit not in the top 150. I'll be curious where his rank finishes because he's damn good. Best player Norm has ever gotten. I go to plenty of AAU and highschool games and see kids first hand and Ron Roberts is very very good. I give kudos to Norm and staff for locking him up early but like they did with Burrell etc but they don't develop or utilize their players properly. As for 2011 we have Davontay Grace who is ehh ok. He's solid first signee to a big class but he won't be All-Big East or anything he's an average player.
Its just sad and embarrassing at this point. I wish Norm Roberts the best of luck in his future he's an honorable man but its just time for him to move on.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 11, 2010, 01:08:19 PM
Guamite, if you were smart, you'd understand that BMA has great credibility. But, that's if you were smart.
What gives him this "great credibility?"
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 12, 2010, 12:32:54 AM
What gives him this "great credibility?"
Because he posts here all that time, and is generally proven correct about 95% of the time. As opposed to someone who has posted here 35 times and has really yet proven to be accurate. I mean, when your first post is defending the job Norm Roberts has done.... I mean, he's 81-100 at St. Johns.
Quote from: GuamanianTerror on March 12, 2010, 12:32:54 AM
What gives him this "great credibility?"
Has facts, great knowledge, knows history, knows recruiting. You're free to disagree with opinions, just realize that most here do place high value on those opinions.