I am watching the IU MSU game and they are talking about how the IU team is incredibly undersized. And how IU can not win with such a small lineup. Just odd how people don't see a pattern here and how people don't realize that MU is winning with a small line up. Oh well...
In other score-watching notes, I see South Florida is beating Cincy right now 22-16. I think that's good - keeps the upper BE bubble a little less crowded, and would keep Cincy from having the same # of wins as MU.
Of course I'm watching. Indiana really has very little Big 10 talent. I don't care how old they are. A couple of their guards should be in the Horizon League. I absolutely love Green from Michigan State.
jones is getting shut down by cinci. Completely ineffective thus far, and still winning. And i guess famous is hurt...
Any idea what is up w/ famous? Too much 'Zar?
and by shut down i mean he has 7 at half. Guess i missed those. The announcers are right about indiana, they cant win small... They arent us.
I also heard them mention that if any team can be prepared for Michigan State, it's a team coached by Tom Crean, a former assistant there. That didn't seem to be the case a couple years ago when it took his team 10 minutes to score against them.
they have not stated what is wrong with famous, unless i missed it in the first 7 min.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 16, 2010, 06:34:07 PM
I am watching the IU MSU game and they are talking about how the IU team is incredibly undersized. And how IU can not win with such a small lineup. Just odd how people don't see a pattern here and how people don't realize that MU is winning with a small line up. Oh well...
With the right small lineup, of course. IU has some players on their team that aren't high major players, including their Senior.
All three of the MU seniors (Crean recruits) could start for IU right now despite being undersized and they would be appreciably better.
Small, undersized lineups can win, but they must be talented.
Quote from: The Deane Team on February 16, 2010, 06:54:05 PM
That didn't seem to be the case a couple years ago when it took his team 10 minutes to score against them.
Some things never change I guess, as I4 went 13 minutes without a FG tonight.
Korie Lucious in the game. Man, he could've been playing lots of minutes here at MU.
EDIT: 16 point lead.
Lavin said MU's playing well of late, building a body of work for their resume (for the NCAA committee).
I know TC's still on his honeymoon at II, II, but I'm starting to wonder when the locals will get tired of not being competitive against the better Big Ten teams.
Quote from: ecompt on February 16, 2010, 07:52:28 PM
I know TC's still on his honeymoon at II, II, but I'm starting to wonder when the locals will get tired of not being competitive against the better Big Ten teams.
With his huge contract, it's going to be a while before admin even starts thinking about eating it and moving on.
Quote from: ecompt on February 16, 2010, 07:52:28 PM
I know TC's still on his honeymoon at II, II, but I'm starting to wonder when the locals will get tired of not being competitive against the better Big Ten teams.
Probably next year, but next year they should be middle of the pack. The 2011, 2012, 2013 high school talent in Indiana is loaded. If he lands some of them, they'll be happy campers. One thing that IU people are is provincial, they love to see those Indiana kids in Indiana uniforms. Due to the abundance of talent in those three years, he only needs to land a couple each year.
This team would be a lot better if Creek were still playing. He is their Lazar Hayward (no, not as good as him yet, but a 4 star recruit that blew his knee out before the conference season). That was the killer for them this year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 16, 2010, 07:19:21 PM
With the right small lineup, of course. IU has some players on their team that aren't high major players, including their Senior.
All three of the MU seniors (Crean recruits) could start for IU right now despite being undersized and they would be appreciably better.
Small, undersized lineups can win, but they must be talented.
And well coached.
I don't who is announcing the game tonight but someone said, and I want to say Jay Bilas, "you build a team from the inside out" and "Crean needs to bring in some big bodies". Yeah, back when Bill Walton or Wilt Chamberlain played against guys who were all 6 feet tall that was true...
Quote from: The Pickle on February 16, 2010, 07:58:32 PM
I don't who is announcing the game tonight but someone said, and I want to say Jay Bilas, "you build a team from the inside out" and "Crean needs to bring in some big bodies". Yeah, back when Bill Walton or Wilt Chamberlain played against guys who were all 6 feet tall that was true...
That was none other than Steve Lavin, not Bilas, who was the "coaching" expert during the game.
77, thanks for clarifying, you are right. I guess there's a reason he's not coaching anymore...
Crean's a complete joke of a coach. IU faithful are now catching on to the sales pitch. Izzo called off the dogs tonight as a goodwill gesture.
BTW, Buzz, Carmody, Bo etc. have all dealt with serious and season ending injuries to valuable players much more successfully than Too Tan Tommy.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is IU undersized? They've got four 6'9" guys who played a combined 79 minutes tonight (and that appears to be fairly consistent with the rest of the year), plus two 6'11"/7'0" guys that don't make it off the bench. kenpom has them in the top 100 for effective height.
The toughest thing for IU this year appears to be getting their experienced guards to hang onto the ball.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 16, 2010, 07:57:12 PM
And well coached.
Agreed...but I'd say Crean coached a small lineup pretty well over the years. Plenty of wins over top 25 schools, NCAA appearances, etc. I'm sure he's comfortable doing that, but you need some talent.
As Kevin O'Neill used to say:
It isn't always about coaching. Give me Dean Smith's players and I'll win every time.
Quote from: MU_B2002 on February 16, 2010, 07:10:59 PM
they have not stated what is wrong with famous, unless i missed it in the first 7 min.
http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/comments/famous-out-vs.-cincinnati/
Sprained knee in practice on Monday. His game against MU was his 7th double-double of the year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 16, 2010, 07:19:21 PM
With the right small lineup, of course. IU has some players on their team that aren't high major players, including their Senior.
All three of the MU seniors (Crean recruits) could start for IU right now despite being undersized and they would be appreciably better.
Small, undersized lineups can win, but they must be talented.
I'm calling BS on this one. We watched Wes play average ball under TC for three years and DJ decline after his freshmen year. Then we saw nothing special from Acker or Coobie, and now they play decent ball under Buzz...I'm not sure TC deserves credit for that. I understand the transfer, the injuries, etc.... but I simply see players playing better under Buzz than TC. I'm not convinced that TC shouldn't have equal talent to MU. Since TC left, I like the players that Buzz brought in as a new BCS head coach in a small market in comparison to TC at IU who had to deal with sanctions.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 16, 2010, 08:27:06 PM
As Kevin O'Neill used to say:
It isn't always about coaching. Give me Dean Smith's players and I'll win every time.
I found this so fitting as we all have to believe that TC felt it was all about the players and not so much the coach ?-(
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 16, 2010, 08:27:06 PM
As Kevin O'Neill used to say:
It isn't always about coaching. Give me Dean Smith's players and I'll win every time.
No, no he used to say: "Give me TC's recruiting budget, facilities and expense model and I'll win every time"
OK, you're right he actually said: "Give me that motherf^cker TC's f'n recruiting budget, f'n facilities and f'n expense model and I'll kick that m-fer's a-- every time"
Quote from: The Lens on February 16, 2010, 09:24:41 PM
No, no he used to say: "Give me TC's recruiting budget, facilities and expense model and I'll win every time"
OK, you're right he actually said: "Give me that motherf^cker TC's f'n recruiting budget, f'n facilities and f'n expense model and I'll kick that m-fer's a-- every time"
Lol. Hilarious. :D
Quote from: avid1010 on February 16, 2010, 09:19:13 PM
I'm calling BS on this one. We watched Wes play average ball under TC for three years and DJ decline after his freshmen year. Then we saw nothing special from Acker or Coobie, and now they play decent ball under Buzz...I'm not sure TC deserves credit for that. I understand the transfer, the injuries, etc.... but I simply see players playing better under Buzz than TC. I'm not convinced that TC shouldn't have equal talent to MU. Since TC left, I like the players that Buzz brought in as a new BCS head coach in a small market in comparison to TC at IU who had to deal with sanctions.
I found this so fitting as we all have to believe that TC felt it was all about the players and not so much the coach ?-(
And here I thought they made the NCAA tournament all four years with those guys. I also think you will find almost universally that seniors play better than freshmen, sophomores and juniors. Wes was a senior last year. Acker and Coobs are seniors this year. Not always, but usually that is the case.
I'm not going to make this into a pissing match, does no one any good.
IU will be fine, they have Creek back next year...with Creek they were a decent team (beat Pitt by double digits, he scored 31 against Kentucky, 19 against Maryland, etc). Without him, they are lacking for a scorer in a big way.
Meanwhile, happy Lazar has gotten the absolute most out of the seniors last year and this year. The book truly closes on Crean after this year (Hayward, Coobs, Acker) and I'm very much looking forward to the Buzz era.
Peace
Quote from: The Lens on February 16, 2010, 09:24:41 PM
No, no he used to say: "Give me TC's recruiting budget, facilities and expense model and I'll win every time"
OK, you're right he actually said: "Give me that motherf^cker TC's f'n recruiting budget, f'n facilities and f'n expense model and I'll kick that m-fer's a-- every time"
Sitting across from MU bench during a Memphis State / MU game in the Penny Hardaway era: KO to Ron Curry:
"Ron, you f'ing kitten, take the ball to the f'ing hole!"
Everyone with a kid gets up and leaves...(not really)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 16, 2010, 08:21:24 PM
Crean's a complete joke of a coach. IU faithful are now catching on to the sales pitch. Izzo called off the dogs tonight as a goodwill gesture.
BTW, Buzz, Carmody, Bo etc. have all dealt with serious and season ending injuries to valuable players much more successfully than Too Tan Tommy.
What are you talking about? So far, Crean is very well liked by most in Bloomington. You have no clue.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 16, 2010, 07:56:14 PM
Probably next year, but next year they should be middle of the pack. The 2011, 2012, 2013 high school talent in Indiana is loaded. If he lands some of them, they'll be happy campers. One thing that IU people are is provincial, they love to see those Indiana kids in Indiana uniforms. Due to the abundance of talent in those three years, he only needs to land a couple each year.
I think to remember here is that it's Indiana fans, some of the most irrational fans and ones that have some of the highest expectations around. Next year Indiana most likely won't be making tournament then the heat's really going to be on Crean. Getting better and competing in the middle of the Big 10 isn't to get it done especially when the rest of the Big 10 is getting better. Not to mention with Purdue emerging in the state of Indiana there is another clear alternative to IU which will make Crean's recruiting significantly harder in addition to the others consistently recruiting in the same area, Pitino, Matta, etc. I think Crean has a bumpy road in front of him and eventually the lack of competing for anything close to a Big 10 title and no wins in the NCAA tourney does him in in Bloomington. 2012 he's out of a job.
Of course this is all my own guess
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 17, 2010, 10:05:26 AM
What are you talking about? So far, Crean is very well liked by most in Bloomington. You have no clue.
That must be why his buddy Tom Izzo was pleading for patience after the game yesterday. Because everybody loves him and sees what a tremendous job he's doing. Izzo practically emptied his bench in the first half to keep things respectable, which I think is unconscionable. I'm sure all the Indiana players loved being patronized.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see mass defections after this season. There is something not right with that team and, believe me, I'm watching. Those guys do not like each other and I'm getting a distinct feeling that they've tuned out Crean's clapping and pacing.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 17, 2010, 10:05:26 AM
What are you talking about? So far, Crean is very well liked by most in Bloomington. You have no clue.
Its true. I have a couple IU buddies and when I ask them about Crean, they give me the "Oh, he is recruiting well and he'll work it out." In my mind, this is total "circling the wagons" talk. I know if there is one more below average season, I think it will be trouble. Personally, I think Crean is in trouble. I understand the thoughts about Creek and all, but I believe the Big Ten is on the rise. Minnesota and Illinois will be better next season and MSU, UW, and Purdue will be solid. There is no reason to think Indiana will be better than any of those teams next year.
You have to remember that Indiana is literally starting from scratch. They are playing with mostly Freshmen and Sophomores. Heck, take away Hayward, Acker, Cube, and DJO (assuming he got injured similar to Creek), and where would we be? Crean doesn't have an All-Big Ten Forward and senior guards to lean on.
I watched a couple of their games (Pittsburgh and Kentucky), and they were definitely starting to improve as the year went on. It's too bad Creek went down because he is the real deal. They are young, but they will get better, especially as they get stronger.
Someone made the assertion that Buzz made Acker and Cubes better. Actually, they both played well under Crean. This leads me to the one beef I have with Buzz; why did he write-off Acker last year. You can understand Cubes not playing a ton because he was coming off a major injury. I just wonder if you could have rested James a little more by spelling him with Acker, maybe James doesn't get hurt(?) I know it's a bit of wishful thinking and water under the bridge, but I would have loved to have seen what we could've done with a healthy team last year.
4ever calls Crean a joke of a coach, yet he managed to put MU back on the winning road, including a Final Four. Yes, he did get Wade to MU, but if you can believe Wade, Crean made him better. I have no idea about Crean personally; however, his players still seem to say good things about him. When Crean let Mbakwe come back from his redshirt, a couple of Crean's most vocal critics said Crean was the worst person in the world; even though, it was obvious that Crean had every intention of playing him. Heck, Buzz let Cadougan come back with little intention of playing him, and he is a saint. It just funny the way 4ever and PRN can twist things around.
For the record, I am not a Crean apologist, but I am thankful for what he did for the University. I didn't like the way he left either. Having said that, one cannot be a joke of a coach and have the success that Crean has had. You just cannot. It just makes the person saying it sound petty, almost a little green with envy.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 17, 2010, 10:05:26 AM
What are you talking about? So far, Crean is very well liked by most in Bloomington. You have no clue.
Can either of you guys substantiate your statements with evidence that he is either liked or hated by IU fans?
Mods,
Is there any way that you could create a new category under Resources and call it something like Crean Crap? We could move all the threads that turn that direction and you could save the rest of us the frustration of even briefly reading about other schools that are not on our schedule.