MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NYWarrior on February 02, 2010, 08:17:43 AM
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remarkable how Buzz can keep the rumor mill on ice about recruits.....this kid's enthusiasm is contagious as well
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/breaking/sports/20100201_Strawberry_Mansion_star_picks_Marquette.html
Strawberry Mansion star picks Marquette
By TED SILARY
Philadelphia Daily News
silaryt@phillynews.com
The session began with wings and a prayer.
Then, flanked by family members in a room at Houlihan's, on City Avenue right off the Schuylkill Expressway, that was no larger than a foul lane, Devonté "DJ" Newbill arose from a table and began reading a statement concerning his college decision.
Well, eventually. First he laughed and/or giggled several times while experiencing all kinds of trouble getting started, and even commented about how nervous he was.
"Take a deep breath," someone said.
More chuckles.
"C'mon, man, you gotta get used to this," someone else piped up.
Newbill, a 6-4, 195-pound combination guard at Strawberry Mansion High, will indeed find himself in front of the media, and fans/admirers, plenty of times over the upcoming years. That's how it is when you're playing college basketball in the Big East Conference.
Marquette, it is. Marquette, it has been since summertime, really.
Newbill, an honor-roll student who already has qualified for freshman eligibility, trekked to the university in Milwaukee back then for a camp featuring elite players from around the country.
It was love at first sight.
"They showed me everything I needed to see," he said. "I had my mind set on them ever since. It's the Big East. That means a lot. I'll be going into a good situation with the opportunity to play as a freshman. That's what I wanted. So I went and got it.
"Though it's kind of far, they also play a lot of games around here against Rutgers, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's . . . so my family will be able to see me play."
"I wanted him to go away," said Newbill's mother, Tawanda "MeMe" Roach. "He can [blossom] more. When he came home from Marquette, he was so excited about the coaches and how nice the campus was. He left his options open, but he wanted this all along.
"This means so much. He's a good player and a good team player and he does all the right things in his life. I'm so proud to be his mom."
Newbill said he was first attracted to Marquette during the Dwyane Wade era.
"He's explosive. Goes hard. Can't nobody stop him," he added. "It's funny. I used to watch Marquette on TV and wish I could go there. Now I am."
Newbill was joined at the announcement by maybe 35 supporters from friends to family members to current and former teammates to hard-core Mansion fans to coaches Gerald Hendricks and Stan Laws to principal Lois Powell Mondesire.
"I have a great core group around me," Newbill said. "They help me with anything I need. This shows that anything is possible if you put forth the effort and work hard . . . This is a weight off my shoulder, but really, the hard work is yet to come."
The press conference topped a red-letter day for Mansion. Earlier, wing guard Saadiq Berry and small forward Jamal Jones, talented transfers from Future and Imhotep Charter, respectively, finally received clearance to play.
When Newbill was asked what other schools had pursued him, he reeled off the names of West Virginia, La Salle, Drexel, Rider, Niagara, East Carolina, Nebraska, Temple, Saint Joseph's . . . Pause . . . Rutgers, Cincinnati, Georgetown . . .
Hey, people are itching to get back to their food.
"This place has the best wings," Newbill said. "That's why I had this here."
Can I get an amen?
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Sounds like a good kid...honor-roll...should be a hard worker.
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Love the enthusiasm. If he was so sure, why no early commit? I love the fact he is on the honor roll and already qualified. That means he can get on campus in June and get to work. It will be nice to see guards with size, all of whom can shoot and handle the ball.
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Love the enthusiasm. If he was so sure, why no early commit? I love the fact he is on the honor roll and already qualified. That means he can get on campus in June and get to work. It will be nice to see guards with size, all of whom can shoot and handle the ball.
I think he had to retake the SAT in December, and get a qualifying score.
Also, just because a player wants to commit, doesn't mean the coach will accept the commitment.
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Love the enthusiasm. If he was so sure, why no early commit?
Maybe Buzz waited to extend the official offer.
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Coming from the Strawberry Mansion area of Philly, he will enjoy Milwaukee and its laid back feeling. I came from Philly in 1986 and it was a welcome change from the Philly toughness. This is a great opportunity for him as a young man. If he ever wants some city action, he can always visit Chicago.
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http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=4776716
Well at least he made it on Scout's list now. Prior to committing, he was not even listed.
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Love the honor role aspect. Hope he doesn't expect a lot of playing time as a frosh.
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Love the honor role aspect. Hope he doesn't expect a lot of playing time as a frosh.
This concerned me FTA. It's probably nothing, but after the Maymon thing it still raised a red flag:
"I'll be going into a good situation with the opportunity to play as a freshman. That's what I wanted. So I went and got it."
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This concerned me FTA. It's probably nothing, but after the Maymon thing it still raised a red flag:
"I'll be going into a good situation with the opportunity to play as a freshman. That's what I wanted. So I went and got it."
Every kid has the opportunity to play as a freshman.
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Opportunity vs expectations. Opportunity means he knows he needs to work hard and earn playing time. Expectation means you expect to play no matter what.
Williams understands opportunity.
Maymon had expectation
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"opportunity to play". I have a feeling that is exactly what he was told. With the caveat that he bust his butt every day and get better. Whether or not that is what he heard.....
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Every kid has the opportunity to play as a freshman.
I realize this. I'm just hoping that a teenager didn't hear what he wanted to hear.
Edit: ditto what Tower said.
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Every kid has the opportunity to play as a freshman.
+1 - Having the opportunity is just that. I felt it's been put to bed that JJMay wasn't promised anything beyond a great opportunity to come in and play immediately..which he did..actually a lot of minutes for a freshman. From what I've read, Newbill is quite versatile - could be a point, shooting guard or even small forward. At 6'4", 197lbs, and only 17 years old - he's got a Big East ready body already - so let's not discount his possible ability to get some time as a frosh. I think Buzz is going to play a 40-minutes of hell brand of basketball, full court pressing at all times, and is going to want a deep rotation of guards/quicks to accomplish this.
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I think Buzz is going to play a 40-minutes of hell brand of basketball, full court pressing at all times, and is going to want a deep rotation of guards/quicks to accomplish this.
What makes you think he is going to do this? I see no indication that this is part of his philosophy at all. He barely even presses as it is.
Furthermore, why would you *want* him to do this? This type of basketball hasn't worked in 15 years. The only program that runs it any longer is Missouri...and Marquette carved it up pretty easily
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He said on his radio show (2/1) that he favors a 9 1/2 man rotation. Eight solid, one 'rover' and one 1/2 specialist, one who can perform a specific task on offense or can be the back guy in a zone or one a press, or the front man on a zone. He pressed last year and he has pressed this year. Both presses have been limited in scope due to personnel issues. And he has said how much he admires Missouri and how they pressure all over the floor and keep rotating high major athletes in. So, based on all of that, I doubt we would see 40 minutes of hell, but I can see us pressing like L-ville or Missouri.
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http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=4776716
Well at least he made it on Scout's list now. Prior to committing, he was not even listed.
1 star...yikes
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1 star...yikes
I wouldn't look to much into that. They probably just put the 1 star up just to have something. That or they haven't seen him yet.
Back in '03 Brian Butch was rated a 5-star & #3 center in the nation. Just saying.
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1 star...yikes
Why yikes? MU already has a stacked backcourt in terms of multi-star players coming in as well as proven talent --- Cadougan, Blue, DJO and Buycks. 'Yikes' would be if a one star kid was expected to walk in and play 30 mins per night. That's not the case here -- Newbill will likely be a complimentary player early in his MU career -- one Buzz thinks he can develop into something more.
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Why yikes? MU already has a stacked backcourt in terms of multi-star players coming in as well as proven talent --- Cadougan, Blue, DJO and Buycks. 'Yikes' would be if a one star kid was expected to walk in an play 30 mins per night. That's not the case here -- Newbill will likely be a complimentary player early in his MU career -- and one Buzz thinks he can develop into something more. Makes sense.
Agreed. We now have 6 players for our 3 guard rotation. Newbill is number 6. I'd rather have a guy like him riding the bench while hopefully developing than some disgruntled 3 star who thinks he should be starting. No team I know of uses a 12 or 13 man rotation.
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Why yikes? MU already has a stacked backcourt in terms of multi-star players coming in as well as proven talent --- Cadougan, Blue, DJO and Buycks. 'Yikes' would be if a one star kid was expected to walk in and play 30 mins per night. That's not the case here -- Newbill will likely be a complimentary player early in his MU career -- one Buzz thinks he can develop into something more.
It still puzzles me on the signing....hopefully he's the deal. I just didn't think we would be using scholarships on 1 star players at a position we are loaded in. It seems strange. I can only imagine how it would be described in years past.
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Seem to recall 1 star simply means the service hasn't seen the player enough to evaluate yet, though I didn't feel like digging through the 8 pages of posts that came up searching for "1 star" to back that up.
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1 star...yikes
He is a 3-star on Rivals. Seems like a good kid. I'm glad to have him. Welcome to MU.
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What makes you think he is going to do this? I see no indication that this is part of his philosophy at all. He barely even presses as it is.
Furthermore, why would you *want* him to do this? This type of basketball hasn't worked in 15 years. The only program that runs it any longer is Missouri...and Marquette carved it up pretty easily
See Tower 912's post directly below your question for the answer. We cannot press now as we are too thin, no depth - it takes a lot of energy to full court press. People complained on here why we didn't full court press Syracuse earlier in that game..reason was..depth/fatigue..we saw those issues in early season games - FSU, NcState, etc. Buzz said 9.5 man rotation, has also said he admires Mizzou's style. I don't think it is a reach to say, Buzz wants to appy a ton of ball pressure all over the floor. He want's to out-tough, out-hustle, and out-muscle everyone...and he's bringing in the depth to do that.
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See Tower 912's post directly below your question for the answer. We cannot press now as we are too thin, no depth - it takes a lot of energy to full court press. People complained on here why we didn't full court press Syracuse earlier in that game..reason was..depth/fatigue..we saw those issues in early season games - FSU, NcState, etc. Buzz said 9.5 man rotation, has also said he admires Mizzou's style. I don't think it is a reach to say, Buzz wants to appy a ton of ball pressure all over the floor. He want's to out-tough, out-hustle, and out-muscle everyone...and he's bringing in the depth to do that.
Tower's post references Pitino. Pitino isn't a "40 minutes of hell" guy. He doesn't press nearly as much now as he did at Providence or in his early days at Kentucky.
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It still puzzles me on the signing....hopefully he's the deal. I just didn't think we would be using scholarships on 1 star players at a position we are loaded in. It seems strange. I can only imagine how it would be described in years past.
At this point, I think we have to give Buzz the benefit of the doubt - and it probably won't be described how it was in years past due to Buzz's track record with the late signing season, signees he's inked so far: DJO and Jimmy Butler. Mbao (maybe could question this, but he's the project 7-footer most people are begging Buzz to sign right now..as there are very few remaining top-flight big men..and the Mbao type of player is probably what you would get now if you were to have used the 2 remaining schollies on Bigs - maybe 1 of the 2 could possibly be an early contributor, but most likely not 2 of 2)
Keep in mind Buzz will definitely sign another BIG with this last scholarship, and we will have Otule still with sophomore status assuming the red-shirt remains this year..and a hopefully improved Mbao. I bet Buzz goes out and signs at least 2 Top 100 Bigs in the 2011 class, that stand a much better chance of being immediate contributors than what he can find now.
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1 star...yikes
Just like Jimmy Butler.
The fact that Huggins offered is far more telling to me than how many stars the Scout experts deem him worthy of.
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Coming out of high school Jimmy Butler had 1 scholarship offer.....he was a 1 star.....so was Damian Saunders...Coobie was a 3 star....so was Fulce.......yikes.......
Nobody had heard of DJO before he signed......it's worked out ok......Everybody knew about top 100 player Brandon Bell...... ::)
I have no idea if this kid is the goods or not but this is hardly a flyer.
They had him at elite camp...they saw him play this year in high school....they obviously think he can play and like his attitude.
Every coach makes mistakes in recruiting......Buzz made his with Roseborro(couldn't play) and Maymon(crazy dad).
Lets give the kid and Buzz the benefit of the doubt at least until we see him play.
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I would rather take a chance on someone with huge upside than someone who may have already peaked in HS. It happens far too often with many of these highly rated kids from big programs.
Say what you will but the kids seem to really love Buzz and have bought into his way of doing things. It's been a long time since I have seen a MU team that never gives up and fights and scraps the way this team does. This team just looks different from other teams in the past especially when you consider how young and in experienced they were when the season began.
I suspect that Buzz will wring every bit of talent out of a kid and coach them up to their full potential. Look at Jimmy Butler as an example.....you just have to love this kid....works hard every play....no show boating and always seems focused on the task at hand.....he's my favorite player on this team (after 'Zar of course) and I really enjoy watching him play. Having two or three more Butler types would make this team a real force to be reckoned with.
Character counts.....until proven otherwise, keep reeling in character guys with a big upside Buzz.
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My understanding was he more than held his own at the elite camp which had probably 10 top 100 player's between 2010 and 2011. I would say that is more important than a rating service that is trying to rate 500 player's nationally per class. Buzz got to watch him for 2 days against top competition. Plus his team is undeafeted and he has hit 3 game winner's so far this year. Sounds like a player That is better live.
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IWB had him as his 4th best player at MU's elite camp last summer, behind Blue, Black, and ?. He has grown an inch and 25 lbs in the last year. His coach says he has been effective at the 1,2, and 3. I feel we need bigs more than this guy, but I am not ready to toss him under the bus. Lets see what the kid has got.
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Blackshear was the other top performer at the Elite camp.
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Coming out of high school Jimmy Butler had 1 scholarship offer.....he was a 1 star.....so was Damian Saunders...Coobie was a 3 star....so was Fulce.......yikes.......
Man...Damian Saunders would look really good in a Marquette uniform right now.
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Blackshear was the other top performer at the Elite camp.
Thanks. Brain not working due to cold medicine and too lazy for research.
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IWB had him as his 4th best player at MU's elite camp last summer, behind Blue, Black, and ?. He has grown an inch and 25 lbs in the last year. His coach says he has been effective at the 1,2, and 3. I feel we need bigs more than this guy, but I am not ready to toss him under the bus. Lets see what the kid has got.
For some perspective I'd like to see who was the 5th, 6th & 7th best.
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Coming out of high school Jimmy Butler had 1 scholarship offer.....
You sure?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2442577/posts
Says here that Mississippi State wanted him out of high school. TCU, Sam Houston, etc.
Again, hopefully he's the real deal (great to see him as a 3 star on Rivals)....what I struggle with most is the position he plays guys...and I'm a "guards guy"...I love having guards. Just doesn't seem like a need right now and there are a ton of guys like him that you can always pick up at that size at other times. I'm sure he'll do well at MU and welcome aboard. The position, however, does have me scratching my head.
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Again, hopefully he's the real deal (great to see him as a 3 star on Rivals
It's not like Rivals suddenly reviewed a dozen game tapes to diligently give him three stars. Scout had to add him because he committed to MU. They hadn't heard of him, and since they hadn't they stuck him with one star. Rivals assumed because he was going to MU and the newspaper article they read listed off a few decent mid-majors as being interested that they would give him three.
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I picture him playing the 3 for us. Someone had stated that he had grown 2" and added 25 lbs to his frame over a year span. If he can attain even an extra inch in height that would be very beneficial for him and for MU, now obviously he can't control that. If he was 6'-5" then he could play small forward more.
His coach says he has been effective at the 1,2, and 3.
Generally freshman gain an extra 10-15 pounds of muscle in the offseason, so lets hope he does. Maybe Buzz envisions him as more of a 3.
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Buzz said on his radio show this week that Butler had 1 offer out of high school.......
Not sure where that information came from but I'm assuming it came from Jimmy.
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You sure?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2442577/posts
Says here that Mississippi State wanted him out of high school. TCU, Sam Houston, etc.
Again, hopefully he's the real deal (great to see him as a 3 star on Rivals)....what I struggle with most is the position he plays guys...and I'm a "guards guy"...I love having guards. Just doesn't seem like a need right now and there are a ton of guys like him that you can always pick up at that size at other times. I'm sure he'll do well at MU and welcome aboard. The position, however, does have me scratching my head.
Agree with you Chicos, but like we all have been saying ad nauseum how many bigs are out there for next year. Hope the kid pans out. I rather have some bodies than an open spot.
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I hope I'm not putting out info that is not meant for this board But I think IWB put him 4th or 5th in the Sr Class so the did not include either Blackshear or Dawson.
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I think we should probably start thinking of these guys at 2A and 2B. With the 3 guard set we are going to, we'll have a defined 1, with 2 guards flanking him and working interchangeably. For example, playing DJO at the 3 like we've talked about, I don't really seeing him posting up as 3s sometimes do. I would imagine Newbill would operate in a similar fashion. Just my thoughts when looking at the roster going forward.
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Gonna be competitive in practice next year. No one's spot at the guard is safe. If you can't perform, you can take a seat. That is something the Three Amigos never had to deal with.
The big guy thing just has to happen. Buzz and the program are doing all the right things, we have tons of resources, and plent of playing time on a good team. It's just gotta happen (can you tell I'm a Cubs fan).
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Correct, IWB rated him the fourth best senior at the elite camp, behind Blue, Black, and Pinkston, all top 100 players in the 2010 class. I can't find the original article from this summer, just what was posted after the commitment on Scout. It would be interesting to see what other seniors were there that IWB ranked behind him. Was Reggie Smith there? He's a fringe top 100 on Rivals I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) and graded 90 on ESPN. That might provide a little perspective.
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Again, hopefully he's the real deal (great to see him as a 3 star on Rivals)....what I struggle with most is the position he plays guys...and I'm a "guards guy"...I love having guards. Just doesn't seem like a need right now and there are a ton of guys like him that you can always pick up at that size at other times. I'm sure he'll do well at MU and welcome aboard. The position, however, does have me scratching my head.
Isn't college basketball a guard-dominated game? ;)
Seriously, though, keep in mind that Buzz for all intents runs a three-guard lineup and has been very willing - for better or worse - to use the likes of Lazar Hayward and Jimmy Butler (or Joe Fulce or Erik Williams, once he figures it out) at the 4.
That being the case, next year's roster as it currently stands - even with Newbill - will have seven guards (Buycks, DJO, Cadougan, Blue, Smith, Jones, Newbill) to man three positions .... not all that ridiculous considering five of them will have very little or no experience.
That leaves six players - Otule, Mbao, Butler, Fulce, Williams and the final scholie - to man the 4 and 5 positions.
If that final scholie goes to a legit big man - say a decent-sized 4 with the ability to occasionally fill in at the 5 - I think we'll be alright. That would give the staff three options at each of the two frontcourt spots. Would using Jimmy at the 4 create some matchup woes for MU .... yep. It would do the same for many opponents as well though (see: Gavin Edwards trying to guard Butler on the final shot Saturday).
I think this does mean Buzz is taking some risk that Otule and/or Mbao can provide some decent big-man production next year, at least defensively and in rebounding. But I'm not sure that's any more risky than thinking you're going to land two better options in the spring signing period.
When all's said and done, I suspect Buzz liked the upside of Newbill as an apparently still-growing wing option more than he liked what he believes he could get from a second big man in the spring.
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The fact that Buzz runs a 4 out 1 in motion offense also dictates a need for big body guard/wing type players. Having long guards on the floor makes it easier to see the floor and find an entry pass or see open passing lanes or lanes to the basket. 3 guards, Jimmy, and Chris on the floor is actually a pretty good sized lineup next year if a couple of the guards are around 6'4" and there is a ton of athleticism there too.
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Isn't college basketball a guard-dominated game? ;)
Seriously, though, keep in mind that Buzz for all intents runs a three-guard lineup and has been very willing - for better or worse - to use the likes of Lazar Hayward and Jimmy Butler (or Joe Fulce or Erik Williams, once he figures it out) at the 4.
That being the case, next year's roster as it currently stands - even with Newbill - will have seven guards (Buycks, DJO, Cadougan, Blue, Smith, Jones, Newbill) to man three positions .... not all that ridiculous considering five of them will have very little or no experience.
That leaves six players - Otule, Mbao, Butler, Fulce, Williams and the final scholie - to man the 4 and 5 positions.
If that final scholie goes to a legit big man - say a decent-sized 4 with the ability to occasionally fill in at the 5 - I think we'll be alright. That would give the staff three options at each of the two frontcourt spots. Would using Jimmy at the 4 create some matchup woes for MU .... yep. It would do the same for many opponents as well though (see: Gavin Edwards trying to guard Butler on the final shot Saturday).
I think this does mean Buzz is taking some risk that Otule and/or Mbao can provide some decent big-man production next year, at least defensively and in rebounding. But I'm not sure that's any more risky than thinking you're going to land two better options in the spring signing period.
When all's said and done, I suspect Buzz liked the upside of Newbill as an apparently still-growing wing option more than he liked what he believes he could get from a second big man in the spring.
Sure is, and I love the guards....just seems like we have a lot of them to take a 1 \ 3 star guy for that position. Maybe the ratings are way behind schedule. That is my hope. Or maybe something else is will make itself known (I don't have any information on that).
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Generally freshman gain an extra 10-15 pounds...in the offseason, so lets hope he does.
Ahh...the Freshman Fifteen. I thought that was just coeds.
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there's a good article on him on marquette.scout.com. a little bit more about him. from a coaches standpoint.
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Sure is, and I love the guards....just seems like we have a lot of them to take a 1 \ 3 star guy for that position. Maybe the ratings are way behind schedule. That is my hope. Or maybe something else is will make itself known (I don't have any information on that).
seems like you rely too much on these ratings
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Sure is, and I love the guards....just seems like we have a lot of them to take a 1 \ 3 star guy for that position. Maybe the ratings are way behind schedule. That is my hope. Or maybe something else is will make itself known (I don't have any information on that).
I think a kid has to be pretty good to put up 64 points in a high school game, regarding the competition. I would guess the rankings aren't up to date or he hasn't been looked at by the people that do the rankings. He doesn't even show up on ESPN so I'm guessing he hasn't been looked at if he isn't even in their database.
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Sure is, and I love the guards....just seems like we have a lot of them to take a 1 \ 3 star guy for that position. Maybe the ratings are way behind schedule. That is my hope. Or maybe something else is will make itself known (I don't have any information on that).
I think the fact that IWB rated Newbill as the 4th best senior at MU's elite camp behind Blue, Black and Pinkston - speaks quite highly of Newbill's upside. We probably need to get over the significance of Rivals/Scout 1/3 star ratings...and trust that what Buzz (and Bob Huggins) saw, was enough to make them offer the kid. Also props to Pakuni on:
When all's said and done, I suspect Buzz liked the upside of Newbill as an apparently still-growing wing option more than he liked what he believes he could get from a second big man in the spring.
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I would guess the rankings aren't up to date or he hasn't been looked at by the people that do the rankings. He doesn't even show up on ESPN so I'm guessing he hasn't been looked at if he isn't even in their database.
Clearly, you're right. But that raises the question: why wasn't he being looked at? How does a kid from Philly go from being a relative unknown who isn't even listed by these recruiting sites to a Big East scholarship? I don't think I'm being critical of either Buzz or DJ Newbill if I say that this is odd.
That said, welcome to the family, DJ. I hope you like it at Marquette and I hope you have a great basketball career at MU and earn a degree.
Edited to add: I'm not trying to make any judgments about Newbill's talent. I've never seen him play and have no idea how good he is. I'm just saying I think it's odd that he was apparently under the radar. I'm not saying that the fact that he was under the radar means he's not a good player. Maybe he deserves four stars. I have absolutely no idea. I just know that once he puts on our uniform, I hope he kicks ass.
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We probably need to get over the significance of Rivals/Scout 1/3 star ratings...and trust that what Buzz (and Bob Huggins) saw, was enough to make them offer the kid.
There's the key point for me.
If Newbill were a one-star (or three-star) player who had offers from only the likes of LaSalle, Drexel and Rider, I think concerns that Buzz walked into another Brett Roseboro situation would be well-founded.
But the fact Huggins apparently was interested enough to offer eases a lot of those concerns, at least for me. Huggy Bear isn't infallible either, but he's been around long enough - and has a solid enough reputation as a talent evaluator - that even if I didn't trust Buzz, I'd trust him (this, obviously, pertains only to talent evaluation, not character evaluation).
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Clearly, you're right. But that raises the question: why wasn't he being looked at? How does a kid from Philly go from being a relative unknown who isn't even listed by these recruiting sites to a Big East scholarship? I don't think I'm being critical of either Buzz or DJ Newbill if I say that this is odd.
That said, welcome to the family, DJ. I hope you like it at Marquette and I hope you have a great basketball career at MU and earn a degree.
Edited to add: I'm not trying to make any judgments about Newbill's talent. I've never seen him play and have no idea how good he is. I'm just saying I think it's odd that he was apparently under the radar. I'm not saying that the fact that he was under the radar means he's not a good player. Maybe he deserves four stars. I have absolutely no idea. I just know that once he puts on our uniform, I hope he kicks ass.
Late bloomer? He's still growing as of this year and he may not have been asked to do a ton in AAU (although in two years of playing with the Philly Heat, he racked up over 1700 points), he may not have been throwing up huge numbers prior to his senior year of high school. I've tried looking for some high school and AAU stats for him and can't find much other than the point total.
All that being said, he's playing on, and leading from everything I've seen, an undefeated high school team, has 3 game winning shots, (one of which was a nothing but net 3 off the dribble), and has been putting up a lot of points while being quoted as saying he trys to get the rest of the team their baskets early on so he can provide a pick me up in the second half/when they need points (his coach's philosophy).
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He's still growing as of this year and he may not have been asked to do a ton in AAU (although in two years of playing with the Philly Heat, he racked up over 1700 points), he may not have been throwing up huge numbers prior to his senior year of high school. I've tried looking for some high school and AAU stats for him and can't find much other than the point total.
You probably saw this, but from his old AAU team website, they had these things to say:
http://www.eteamz.com/phillyheat/index.cfm?league=446940&subsite=848508Wing Forward D. J. Newbill topped 1000 points in style, where he was MVP on his undefeated team won the Metro Baltimore Basketball League. Newbill drained 54 points in three MYBL playoff games to run his career total to 1614 points in 125 Heat (Record 98-23, Seven Titles) contests. D.J. Helped the Heat win title #7, when he drained a winning shot at the buzzer in the Chip game. He is especially tough to stop, because of his size (6'2") and his ability to shoot from outside. If you choose to double him on defense, to stop his scoring, he unselfishly dominates the game with assists.
He recently passed D. J. Newbill, who is averaging almost 20 points a game in the top Summer Camps in the USA.
Some good things, and the 54 point game makes the 64 point one seem like it may not have been that much of an outlier. And the ~20 ppg average is good too.
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Rocky, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like the 54 points you reference was spread out over three games.
Also, how many clutch buzzer beaters does this kid have? Maybe Buzz is anticipating more close games over the next few years and wants to be on the winning side more often than not... Perhaps he's being brought in as a secret weapon in last possession situations a la Steve Novak for the Clippers...
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Rocky, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like the 54 points you reference was spread out over three games.
I knew I shouldn't have slept through that stupid 8am reading comprehension class! Thanks for the correction.
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1 star...yikes
C'mon now, you should know by now what a one star rating actually means.
1-Star is what Scout uses when they know of a kid but haven't seen him enough to form an opinion on him. It's just like ESPN's use of the number grade 40 in their system. It doesn't mean that they actually think he's a 1-Star player, in fact just the opposite. 1-Star is their way of saying, "we don't know enough about this kid to do a rating".
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If I am reading that scout article correctly, I am thinking Joe Chapman with better knees and a better handle. 6'4, 3 pt shooter, needs to get stronger and quicker. Can run a team. If that is the case, I would take that as our 6th guard.
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+1 - Having the opportunity is just that. I felt it's been put to bed that JJMay wasn't promised anything beyond a great opportunity to come in and play immediately..which he did..actually a lot of minutes for a freshman.
Why has it been put to bed? Because you say so? Has it also been put to bed that Maymon was promised to play another position other than the 5?
I don't know if Maymon was promised a starting spot and a certain postion. It is clear that he believed he was and was never dissuaded from thinking that way during or after the recruiting process.
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If no one else is going to say it, I will.
Strawberry Mansion? Really?
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Buzz has said that he told Jeronne that he would have the opportunity to start and play big minutes. Having read what he said to other recruits, I have to assume the caveat was included that Jeronne would have to work hard and be accountable every day in conditioning and practice. Whether or not Tim and Jeronne heard that second part is debatable. Did Jeronne have to play out of position by necessity (injuries)? Yup. The team needed him. Buzz said last night that no player is bigger than the program, that he yells a lot, and that soft players and me-first players are not going to like him. Some things explain themselves if you wait long enough.
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Buzz has said that he told Jeronne that he would have the opportunity to start and play big minutes. Having read what he said to other recruits, I have to assume the caveat was included that Jeronne would have to work hard and be accountable every day in conditioning and practice. Whether or not Tim and Jeronne heard that second part is debatable. Did Jeronne have to play out of position by necessity (injuries)? Yup. The team needed him. Buzz said last night that no player is bigger than the program, that he yells a lot, and that soft players and me-first players are not going to like him. Some things explain themselves if you wait long enough.
I have a hard time thinking of another situation anywhere when a player and parent ( at JM's level ) were so outspoken about their expectations for playing time and specific about usage. This continued from the announcement to attend MU until and after JM's departure. The coaches did little to nothing ( at least not effectively ) to put an end to this.
The truth is people on this board don't know jack about what was or was not promised. They want it "put to bed" and forget about any mistakes made. I would bet these are the same people who did not know jack about Tim and Jerrone before they arrived and "put to bed" all questions sourrounding any potential problems. Heads buried deeply in the sand.
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Your forgetting that after Maymon and his father came out during the recruiting process and said he was promised playing time and a starting spot, Jeronne retracted those comments and said he was promised the opportunity for playing time and a starting spot if he worked hard.
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Did Jeronne have to play out of position by necessity (injuries)?
Well....not really. OK, maybe I'll grant that Jeronne should be a 4, but he had to play the 5. No way is he quick enough to play the 3, I think he'll find that out quickly at TN when all the other 3s are kicking his ass and he's told that his only option is the 4.
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Your forgetting that after Maymon and his father came out during the recruiting process and said he was promised playing time and a starting spot, Jeronne retracted those comments and said he was promised the opportunity for playing time and a starting spot if he worked hard.
That is the closest anyone ever came to putting a lid on Tim. I can tell you with certainty Tim never stopped believing or telling others his son was promised many things. Tim is a convenient fall guy. Tim is an idiot and not the harmless type. He has done harm during this fiasco to both his son and the MU program. That being said all of this did not appear to him in a vision one evening
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I picture him playing the 3 for us. Someone had stated that he had grown 2" and added 25 lbs to his frame over a year span. If he can attain even an extra inch in height that would be very beneficial for him and for MU, now obviously he can't control that. If he was 6'-5" then he could play small forward more.
Generally freshman gain an extra 10-15 pounds of muscle in the offseason, so lets hope he does. Maybe Buzz envisions him as more of a 3.
Maybe we can have a lineup of three SF's and 4 guards on the floor at the same time.
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That is the closest anyone ever came to putting a lid on Tim. I can tell you with certainty Tim never stopped believing or telling others his son was promised many things. Tim is a convenient fall guy. Tim is an idiot and not the harmless type. He has done harm during this fiasco to both his son and the MU program. That being said all of this did not appear to him in a vision one evening
I think you severely underestimate how out there Tim's thought process is. He's the same guy who said that Baylor was going to run their offense through Jeronne, and the Iowa State wanted to build their program around him. I can guarantee you that no one at Iowa State said anything like that, but Tim hears what Tim wants to hear.
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It is clear that he believed he was and was never dissuaded from thinking that way during or after the recruiting process.
The truth is people on this board don't know jack about what was or was not promised.
Hmmm.
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How tall are Newbill's parents? I mean, if this dude grows 6" in the next 6 months, Buzz is a freakin' genius. More than one way to sign a big man.
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denny, if Jeronne's and Tim' OWN WORDS are to be believed, Jeronne did not think that he had been promised a starting slot and Tim thought that his son deserved it, should have the offense run through him, and was another Michael Beasley. Now, if, as a typical badger fan, you start with the premise that everything MU does is crooked and everything Buzz says is a lie, (A) I pity you, and (B) nothing anyone is going to say is going to change your mind. Look at the quotes of the people involved. It is a pretty clear picture once you take off the crimson shades.
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Why has it been put to bed? Because you say so? Has it also been put to bed that Maymon was promised to play another position other than the 5?
I don't know if Maymon was promised a starting spot and a certain postion. It is clear that he believed he was and was never dissuaded from thinking that way during or after the recruiting process.
Didn't mean to start the whole JMay drama thing. Obviously Denny, YOU haven't put the JMay situation to bed. My bad. Most MU fans have moved on from that, and don't really pay it much mind anymore. As Buzz said on his radio show last night - he doesn't like soft guys, and soft guys aren't going to like him, and no one player is bigger than the program. Buzz liked JMay, by all account JMay liked Buzz. The fact you are defending Tim Maymon, who claimed JMay might go to Central Florida and team up with Jordan's son and go to the Final Four - is comedy. The reality is NO TEAM other than Tennessee wanted JMay after what went down at MU. If that wasn't the case - why would JMay choose to go to Tennessee, where he has to PAY his own way this semester? Tim Maymon made all kinds of claims - UCLA, Baylor, K-State, Central Florida, Nevada - offered. Pretty peculiar JMay "chose" to go to the school where he'd have to pay his own way.
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At the risk of spoiling the off-topic run of Maymon posts, a couple of previous statements warrant a response:
Gonna be competitive in practice next year. No one's spot at the guard is safe. If you can't perform, you can take a seat. That is something the Three Amigos never had to deal with.
That explains why the Amigos really sucked while here--it was the lack of competition for playing time. Same thing I noticed hampered Dwyane Wade's development, he barely improved without someone pushing him. Or Travis Diener. Or Steve Novak.
Seriously, its a complete insult to the Amigos to think that they slacked off in practice because there wasn't anybody as capable of beating them out for minutes.
And if competitive practices are the secret to better play, Erik Williams would have shown more improvement than any other player on the team, given the competition for minutes with Hayward and Butler.
Give the coaches and players credit for playing to their max even when not seriously pushed for minutes by another player.
I think this does mean Buzz is taking some risk that Otule and/or Mbao can provide some decent big-man production next year, at least defensively and in rebounding. But I'm not sure that's any more risky than thinking you're going to land two better options in the spring signing period.
I think you've misframed the premise here.
Can we get 40 mpg at the point with Cadougan and Smith? All reports indicated this is a slam dunk (no pun intended).
Can we get 80 mpg out of our wings, with DJO, Buycks, Blue & Jones? I think the bigger challenge is how you limit them to only 20 mpg on average. DJO and Buycks are going to want to keep their 27-28 mpg, Blue is going to want the same, and that leaves ???? for Jones.
At the 4, Butler will easily give us 30 a game. That gives 10 to split between Jones (since there's very few wing minutes), Fulce & Williams.
Up to this point, we probably have one of the best teams in the league.
Now we come to the last position--I'm sorry, but I don't see 40 minutes to Mbao and Otule--not without some miracle of off-season development.
Thus, we don't sign two bigs because we think we can get two good ones. We sign two bigs in the spring to double the chance that one of them will be what we need. And if both are great, that's a high quality problem to have.
Now, let me throw one more curve.
With Butler going to be going into his senior year I fully expect that he'll enter the NBA draft without an agent--just as McNeal did. There is no downside. He doesn't give up his eligibility. He doesn't lose his one-time withdrawl from the draft. Worst case, he gains valuable experience about the competition, the process, and what he needs to work on his senior year.
But what if he blows up in the camps? What if he blows away the expectations of the NBA scouts, and plays his way into a first round pick? Is that truly unthinkable? A lot can happen between now and May 8.
NOW what does that do the lineup? Can Fulce and Williams split 40 minutes for a Big East contender? Big risk. Maybe Jones is a LOT better and plays bigger than his size. Big risk.
I'm sure someone will counter that Buzz could simply use Butlers' scholarship for a replacement--but people ripped on me for suggesting that he could have begun recruiting in mid-March and landed a serviceable big. Imagine not knowing if you need one until mid-May.
The safest route would have been to take the best two bigs you can get a commitment from. With each comes reduced risk.
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Didn't mean to start the whole JMay drama thing. Obviously Denny, YOU haven't put the JMay situation to bed. My bad. Most MU fans have moved on from that, and don't really pay it much mind anymore. As Buzz said on his radio show last night - he doesn't like soft guys, and soft guys aren't going to like him, and no one player is bigger than the program. Buzz liked JMay, by all account JMay liked Buzz. The fact you are defending Tim Maymon, who claimed JMay might go to Central Florida and team up with Jordan's son and go to the Final Four - is comedy. The reality is NO TEAM other than Tennessee wanted JMay after what went down at MU. If that wasn't the case - why would JMay choose to go to Tennessee, where he has to PAY his own way this semester? Tim Maymon made all kinds of claims - UCLA, Baylor, K-State, Central Florida, Nevada - offered. Pretty peculiar JMay "chose" to go to the school where he'd have to pay his own way.
You are correct that most MU fans have moved on from the Maymon stuff. Denny is a rodent fan, though, so he'll never let it go.
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I think a kid has to be pretty good to put up 64 points in a high school game, regarding the competition. I would guess the rankings aren't up to date or he hasn't been looked at by the people that do the rankings. He doesn't even show up on ESPN so I'm guessing he hasn't been looked at if he isn't even in their database.
Would you rather have Scott C or this one star?
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I think you severely underestimate how out there Tim's thought process is. He's the same guy who said that Baylor was going to run their offense through Jeronne, and the Iowa State wanted to build their program around him. I can guarantee you that no one at Iowa State said anything like that, but Tim hears what Tim wants to hear.
That's two and the bonus:
"We're looking at some decent programs, like Central Florida where Michael Jordan's son plays," Tim Maymon said. "That would be a great school that he could go in and they could pretty much get to the Final Four and do some damage."
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denny, if Jeronne's and Tim' OWN WORDS are to be believed, Jeronne did not think that he had been promised a starting slot and Tim thought that his son deserved it, should have the offense run through him, and was another Michael Beasley. Now, if, as a typical badger fan, you start with the premise that everything MU does is crooked and everything Buzz says is a lie, (A) I pity you, and (B) nothing anyone is going to say is going to change your mind. Look at the quotes of the people involved. It is a pretty clear picture once you take off the crimson shades.
Tim Maymon says alot of things. You are being selective in what you want to hear. No need to pity me or place words in my mouth.
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The fact you are defending Tim Maymon,
Defending him by calling him an idiot? I posted before any of this occured MU would be better off staying away from Maymon and his loser father. Now I am him his biggest defender? You need a reality check. Mistakes were made. They will be made again unless someone recognizes this.
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Defending him by calling him an idiot? I posted before any of this occured MU would be better off staying away from Maymon and his loser father. Now I am him his biggest defender? You need a reality check. Mistakes were made. They will be made again unless someone recognizes this.
Thank you for your concern our program. Now run along.
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Tim Maymon says alot of things. You are being selective in what you want to hear. No need to pity me or place words in my mouth.
I actually think Tim and Buzz are to blame.
Obviously Tim has a large problem with selective hearing based upon his track record of statements (that BMA pointed out so delinquently)
Buzz, (who appears like an honest guy, I like him), needs to do a better job of being completely blunt with a recruit. I'm not sure exactly what Buzz told JM and TM, but obviously JM and TM came away hearing what they wanted.
The blame doesn't really fall all on Buzz as he can't control how TM thinks... but Buzz is responsible for signing the right kids and making sure they understand his expectations.
I'll call it 50/50. Tim is beyond reality and Buzz needs to do a better job presenting and enforcing reality with these kids, even if that means losing a recruit.
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Why are we talking about the Maymon family, Newbill....
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I actually think Tim and Buzz are to blame.
Obviously Tim has a large problem with selective hearing based upon his track record of statements (that BMA pointed out so delinquently)
Buzz, (who appears like an honest guy, I like him), needs to do a better job of being completely blunt with a recruit. I'm not sure exactly what Buzz told JM and TM, but obviously JM and TM came away hearing what they wanted.
The blame doesn't really fall all on Buzz as he can't control how TM thinks... but Buzz is responsible for signing the right kids and making sure they understand his expectations.
I'll call it 50/50. Tim is beyond reality and Buzz needs to do a better job presenting and enforcing reality with these kids, even if that means losing a recruit.
OK...we have one instance where this supposedly occurred. And excuse me if I'm not going to take the word of that nutjob Tim Maymon over the word of our coach.
You have no idea what Buzz said to Maymon. You have no idea what he said to Newbill.
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Can we get 40 mpg at the point with Cadougan and Smith? All reports indicated this is a slam dunk (no pun intended).
Can we get 80 mpg out of our wings, with DJO, Buycks, Blue & Jones? I think the bigger challenge is how you limit them to only 20 mpg on average. DJO and Buycks are going to want to keep their 27-28 mpg, Blue is going to want the same, and that leaves ???? for Jones.
At the 4, Butler will easily give us 30 a game. That gives 10 to split between Jones (since there's very few wing minutes), Fulce & Williams.
Up to this point, we probably have one of the best teams in the league.
Now we come to the last position--I'm sorry, but I don't see 40 minutes to Mbao and Otule--not without some miracle of off-season development.
Thus, we don't sign two bigs because we think we can get two good ones. We sign two bigs in the spring to double the chance that one of them will be what we need. And if both are great, that's a high quality problem to have.
If we can stop the water over the dam Maymon talk Marquette84 is making a very good point here. You can only have 5 guys on the court at once and we are loaded at guard even assuming a 3 guard set all the time and the talent level at guard is going to DEMAND to be played. A Junior and Senior DJO needs to play 30 minutes, he is (and will be) that good. I think the same will probably go for Blue. Jones is a great shooter and he gives you even more height but he is not an inside player. I think we are going to what him in the game more than 8 minutes. Buzz "I play the guys that give me the best chance to win" Williams is not going to be able to find time for Newbill for the next several years. Those years could be used to add seasoning to a couple big man projects.
Buzz has done a great job recruiting thus far and has put us in a position to be very good. BUT when you get to this point on your roster you've got to turn off the "I'll take any player who can help us" mentality and start filling out your team based on need and building from within what you can't seem to recruit directly.
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BUT when you get to this point on your roster you've got to turn off the "I'll take any player who can help us" mentality and start filling out your team based on need and building from within what you can't seem to recruit directly.
What if those players that "fit a need" are terrible, and wont contribute on the Big East level?
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OK...we have one instance where this supposedly occurred. And excuse me if I'm not going to take the word of that nutjob Tim Maymon over the word of our coach.
You have no idea what Buzz said to Maymon. You have no idea what he said to Newbill.
Absolutely. You are completely right.
I have NO IDEA what was told or promised.
BUT, I know what TM and JM thought... and that counts for something. I'm not saying I "believe" them, I'm just saying that their perception is the reality in this case.
Tim is a whack job, but Buzz knew that. This isn't new stuff.
If Buzz was brutally honest with them, and they still heard what they wanted to, I still think Buzz is still partially responsible because he has to be able to read the situation and understand who he is recruiting and what they are thinking.
I'm not hating on Buzz, I'm just saying that ultimately the buck stops with him. If a recruit and his parent(s) aren't understanding what Buzz is selling, he needs to cut bait or have a "come to God" meeting with them and make sure they are on the same page.
Again, I'm not saying Buzz is a bad guy or a bad coach, but the Maymon situation was a calculated risk that blew up in Buzz's face.
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If we can stop the water over the dam Maymon talk Marquette84 is making a very good point here. You can only have 5 guys on the court at once and we are loaded at guard even assuming a 3 guard set all the time and the talent level at guard is going to DEMAND to be played. A Junior and Senior DJO needs to play 30 minutes, he is (and will be) that good. I think the same will probably go for Blue. Jones is a great shooter and he gives you even more height but he is not an inside player. I think we are going to what him in the game more than 8 minutes. Buzz "I play the guys that give me the best chance to win" Williams is not going to be able to find time for Newbill for the next several years. Those years could be used to add seasoning to a couple big man projects.
Buzz has done a great job recruiting thus far and has put us in a position to be very good. BUT when you get to this point on your roster you've got to turn off the "I'll take any player who can help us" mentality and start filling out your team based on need and building from within what you can't seem to recruit directly.
just my 2 cents but I'm guessing that Buzz has told DJ Newbill, just like he has told the other recruits... you play the minutes you EARN. No one is guarenteed anything, and we will put our best players out there to win.
That being said... IMO, next year's depth chart would look something like this... (in terms of PT)
Guards
DJO
Junior Cadougan
Vander Blue
Dwight Buycks
Reggie Smith
DJ Newbill
Forwards
Butler
Fulce
Erik Williams
Jones
Centers
Otule
Mbao
5 Starters being
Junior Cadougan
DJO
Blue
Butler
Otule
first off the bench is Fulce -> Dwight Buycks
And thats just being honest. You guys can be high on certain recruits, but I think Buzz will go with more experience. The minutes might be more spread out in some places... we will have to go with 3 guards for most of the game. Otule will have to shoulder as much load as he can handle down low with no real second option (Mbao will still be raw, but developing, and the rest of the 'forwards' are long but don't have the bulk.) Our young duo of Smith and Newbill might find themselves short on minutes their first year, but after DB is graduated, and who knows how long Blue will be sticking around, they could be major contributers by their sophmore years. Jones, EW, and Fulce might get about equal minutes... but I'm not so sure here.
Then again, I could be completely wrong about everything... but I wouldn't make the predictions if I thought I was wrong.
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I actually think Tim and Buzz are to blame.
Obviously Tim has a large problem with selective hearing based upon his track record of statements (that BMA pointed out so delinquently)
Buzz, (who appears like an honest guy, I like him), needs to do a better job of being completely blunt with a recruit. I'm not sure exactly what Buzz told JM and TM, but obviously JM and TM came away hearing what they wanted.
The blame doesn't really fall all on Buzz as he can't control how TM thinks... but Buzz is responsible for signing the right kids and making sure they understand his expectations.
I'll call it 50/50. Tim is beyond reality and Buzz needs to do a better job presenting and enforcing reality with these kids, even if that means losing a recruit.
Hard to "assess blame" when neither you nor I are privy to ANY of the conversations between Buzz and the Maymons. But based on Tim Maymon's insane characterizations of conversations with coaches at Baylor and Iowa State (where the offense would run through Jeronne from day 1!) I think it's fair to say that Tim Maymon was, is, and probably always will be delusional in these matters.
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On his show the other night, Buzz said something to the effect of "I want to play 9.5 guys....with the .5 being a specialist."
Will he be at that point next year? It is hard to tell.
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I think people are getting too worried about figuring out how players are going to get minutes as freshman or sophomores, when the fact is that in most programs, unless you are a top-level talent like Vander Blue might be, you are going to be sitting on the bench for a good portion of your first two years.
I don't think you are going to see much of Newbill, Smith or Jones next year. Hards' depth chart I think is fairly accurate...a couple of nitpicks here and there...but what do I know?
Buycks has one more year...DJO has two...playing time will open up for these guys as time goes on. If Buzz recruits over them...GREAT!! That means we have more talent. The key for Buzz is making sure everyone knows there role and keeps people a part of the Marquette family - and transfers are not the end of the world either.
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Hard to "assess blame" when neither you nor I are privy to ANY of the conversations between Buzz and the Maymons. But based on Tim Maymon's insane characterizations of conversations with coaches at Baylor and Iowa State (where the offense would run through Jeronne from day 1!) I think it's fair to say that Tim Maymon was, is, and probably always will be delusional in these matters.
You're right. I have no idea what what said. I'm not pretending to know.
I just think that you have to hold the head coach at least somewhat responsible when a kid comes to MU and doesn't realize what he is getting into.
I'm sure Buzz told JM and TM over and over again. But, Buzz has to be smart enough to read the situation and understand what TM and JM are really "hearing" and what their perception is.
It was a risk to bring Maymon in. It was probably a risk worth taking, so I can't blame Buzz for that... but ultimately he is at least partially responsible for how things went. I can't just write it off to "Tim Maymon is nuts", because we all knew that before MU ever recruited Jerrone.
*Also, I think my choice of words was poor in my previous post. "Blame" is too inflammatory, solicits a defensive response. I don't really "blame" Buzz in a negative way, I'm just saying he's 50% responsible as recruiting is a 2 way street.*
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You're right. I have no idea what what said. I'm not pretending to know.
I just think that you have to hold the head coach at least somewhat responsible when a kid comes to MU and doesn't realize what he is getting into.
Unless it becomes a chronic issue with future recruits, I am not going to hold Buzz at all responsible given what I have seen from Tim Maymon.
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I think people are getting too worried about figuring out how players are going to get minutes as freshman or sophomores, when the fact is that in most programs, unless you are a top-level talent like Vander Blue might be, you are going to be sitting on the bench for a good portion of your first two years.
I don't think you are going to see much of Newbill, Smith or Jones next year. Hards' depth chart I think is fairly accurate...a couple of nitpicks here and there...but what do I know?
Buycks has one more year...DJO has two...playing time will open up for these guys as time goes on. If Buzz recruits over them...GREAT!! That means we have more talent. The key for Buzz is making sure everyone knows there role and keeps people a part of the Marquette family - and transfers are not the end of the world either.
+1 Sultan - you are on a roll with this post and this one: OK...we have one instance where this supposedly occurred. And excuse me if I'm not going to take the word of that nutjob Tim Maymon over the word of our coach. You have no idea what Buzz said to Maymon. You have no idea what he said to Newbill.
What's funny here is MU fans don't know how to handle a surplus of Top Talent - it hasn't happened here since the Days of Al. Not bashing Crean, but that dude never stacked talent beyond maybe 6-deep. There was a huge drop-off from his Top 6 to his 2nd 6. We should be absolutely embracing this - Buzz will get a big with the last scholarship, that can play some minutes next year. Book It. (I don't have any inside information, but I have complete confidence and faith in Buzz..he's earned that by now.)
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Unless it becomes a chronic issue with future recruits, I am not going to hold Buzz at all responsible given what I have seen from Tim Maymon.
Agreed, I'm not saying Buzz is a liar, or that this is a chronic problem, so I'm not trying to bash Buzz about it.
I'm simply saying in this specific instance, I can't just give Buzz a free pass because "Tim Maymon is nuts". Realistically, if Tim Maymon was so crazy, maybe Buzz should have stayed away, no?
Again, I really like Buzz. I like the program. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. Just trying to be fair when looking at MU. If TN has issues with Maymon(s), I'll make the same comment(s) about Bruce.
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Agreed, I'm not saying Buzz is a liar, or that this is a chronic problem, so I'm not trying to bash Buzz about it.
I'm simply saying in this specific instance, I can't just give Buzz a free pass because "Tim Maymon is nuts".
Well...then you really *don't* agree. I am giving Buzz a free pass because Tim Maymon is nuts.
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Well...then you really *don't* agree. I am giving Buzz a free pass because Tim Maymon is nuts.
Well, then the obvious question is, didn't Buzz already know that and/or isn't it his job to know that?
You're right that we disagree... I guess I'm just trying to say that I'm not holding a grudge against Buzz about it, but I definitely can't just hand him a free pass.
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What's funny here is MU fans don't know how to handle a surplus of Top Talent - it hasn't happened here since the Days of Al. Not bashing Crean, but that dude never stacked talent beyond maybe 6-deep. There was a huge drop-off from his Top 6 to his 2nd 6. We should be absolutely embracing this - Buzz will get a big with the last scholarship, that can play some minutes next year. Book It. (I don't have any inside information, but I have complete confidence and faith in Buzz..he's earned that by now.)
Actually, Al didn't have deep teams. He had a strong top 6 or 8, and the remainder were role players.
Just ask Murff ;D
Seriously--look at the box from the '77 championship game. We played just 7 deep--and one of those was Neary.
We did play 10 players in the 1974 championship game--but after a top six of Ellis, Tatum, Lucas, Walton, Washington and Daniels, the next four were Rick Campbell, Jerry Homan, Dave Delsman and Barry Brennan. I don't think your comment about a 2nd six nearly as strong as the first is entirely accurate.
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Actually, Al didn't have deep teams. He had a strong top 6 or 8, and the remainder were role players.
Just ask Murff ;D
Seriously--look at the box from the '77 championship game. We played just 7 deep--and one of those was Neary.
We did play 10 players in the 1974 championship game--but after a top six of Ellis, Tatum, Lucas, Walton, Washington and Daniels, the next four were Rick Campbell, Jerry Homan, Dave Delsman and Barry Brennan. I don't think your comment about a 2nd six nearly as strong as the first is entirely accurate.
I stand corrected, I made an assumption that Al's teams were deep and talented . I do think it is fair to say that what Buzz is doing with his recruiting certainly is better than anything we've seen since Al's days. I genuinely believe that he'll have a roster where his 6 through 10 lineup is almost NO drop-off from the starters. He is stacking the talent deep. We definitely haven't seen that at MU in at least 30 years...and I think we as fans don't know how to react to seeing this much talent assembled at one-time. Maybe a stretch of a statement, but to me, this is what goes on at Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State - all schools that have little drop off in guys 6 through 10.