We have heard that Crean was a self centered a$$hole and that Mike Deane would get drunk and bite women in the a$$. Kevin O'Neill was also some sort of jerk. Didn't he hit on coeds and such?
Yeah. But I believe he did that at Tennesee not so much at MU. His biggest transgression was saying he wouldn't wipe his nose with his contract. Truthfully, he was given a great opportunity and ran for a bigger paycheck once he had a little success. It wasn't necessarily a bad decision on his part, but he mentioned that he regretted leaving MU as quickly as he did.
Not to mention the fact that he was way more honest and open about the fact that he was getting out. Hell, I think Roney Eford said as much before the Duke game. It was played in Knoxville if I'm not mistaken and the players joked with him about how nice it was there.
So he could have been a d*ck, but he was above board with his intentions. Unlike some people. I heard Dukiet was a sick bast@rd as well. He was into some kinky sh*t apparently.
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 28, 2010, 04:41:04 PM
So he could have been a d*ck, but he was above board with his intentions. Unlike some people.
I think this is what gets peolpe about the Tanned One. Crean is just such a shallow, lying sack of crap. Gutless too.
I heard Dukiet was a sick bast@rd as well. He was into some kinky sh*t apparently.
Share the wealth about Dukiet! This has got to be good!
So he could have been a d*ck, but he was above board with his intentions. Unlike some people.
I think this is what gets peolpe about the Tanned One. Crean is just such a shallow, lying sack of crap. Gutless too.
I heard Dukiet was a sick bast@rd as well. He was into some kinky sh*t apparently.
Share the wealth about Dukiet! This has got to be good!
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 28, 2010, 04:41:04 PM
Yeah. But I believe he did that at Tennesee not so much at MU. His biggest transgression was saying he wouldn't wipe his nose with his contract. Truthfully, he was given a great opportunity and ran for a bigger paycheck once he had a little success. It wasn't necessarily a bad decision on his part, but he mentioned that he regretted leaving MU as quickly as he did.
Not to mention the fact that he was way more honest and open about the fact that he was getting out. Hell, I think Roney Eford said as much before the Duke game. It was played in Knoxville if I'm not mistaken and the players joked with him about how nice it was there.
So he could have been a d*ck, but he was above board with his intentions. Unlike some people. I heard Dukiet was a sick bast@rd as well. He was into some kinky sh*t apparently.
Ah, he did it at MU as well. "Hitting on" would be a mild way of describing it.
Kevin O'Neill was in Tom Crean's wedding. KO was friends with Mike Deane as well, recommended Deane for the MU job to Bill Cords.
Small coaching circle when you think about it.
i and KO happened to be a guest at the same wedding - while he was currently the coach at Northwestern...i introduced myself to him as a Marq. grad....he was really a good guy and had absolutely nothing but great things to say about Marquette...i did thank him for leaving us with Hutch.....loved that kid...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 28, 2010, 04:52:32 PM
Ah, he did it at MU as well. "Hitting on" would be a mild way of describing it.
Kevin O'Neill was in Tom Crean's wedding. KO was friends with Mike Deane as well, recommended Deane for the MU job to Bill Cords.
Small coaching circle when you think about it.
What is the connection between KO and Crean? They are very different personalities. KO likes to back slap, drink, chase poon and is an all around Guy's guy. Crean is a teetotaling loner who is a one woman guy. Sure, they're both coaches but that's about it. What did they talk about? KO would regale the crowd with tales of bedroom conquest and Crean would talk about himself? I dopn't get how they could be buds.
KO took the Northwestern job because his wife caught him with a cheer leader (female for those who were wondering). I heard from a former Dukiet player that he liked to go solo for a while before commencing the act. A little private show if you will. Nasty dude. Really creepy.
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 28, 2010, 05:18:31 PM
KO took the Northwestern job because his wife caught him with a cheer leader (female for those who were wondering).
That is what I heard but what Mrs O'Neill failed to consider was that NU also had female cheerleaders...
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 28, 2010, 05:18:31 PM
I heard from a former Dukiet player that he liked to go solo for a while before commencing the act. A little private show if you will. Nasty dude. Really creepy.
Was Dukiet just Priming the Pump? I mean, there is a difference between warming up the engine and running laps at Indy. I'll tell you what is really creepy - the fact that a player knew about his coach's perversions. Now that is beyond weird.
Big diff between NU and Tenn cheerleaders. He must be in heaven at USC.
QuoteWas Dukiet just Priming the Pump?
Ding, Ding. We have a winner. Apparently, he didn't keep it a secret. However, this was a situation where the player was from Milwaukee. He new the woman and she confided how undeniably odd Piano Bob really was.
I love this thread!
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 28, 2010, 04:41:04 PM
Yeah. But I believe he did that at Tennesee not so much at MU. His biggest transgression was saying he wouldn't wipe his nose with his contract. Truthfully, he was given a great opportunity and ran for a bigger paycheck once he had a little success. It wasn't necessarily a bad decision on his part, but he mentioned that he regretted leaving MU as quickly as he did.
Not to mention the fact that he was way more honest and open about the fact that he was getting out. Hell, I think Roney Eford said as much before the Duke game. It was played in Knoxville if I'm not mistaken and the players joked with him about how nice it was there.
So he could have been a d*ck, but he was above board with his intentions. Unlike some people. I heard Dukiet was a sick bast@rd as well. He was into some kinky sh*t apparently.
To be fair, O'Neill made no mention in advance that he was looking to leave. The players were reacting to widely reported rumors in the press that he was the leading candidate for the Tennessee job, fueled by the fact that MU was playing there.
Hey we (MU) had that one cheerleader with the awesome abs. We could post a shot of her. She was a WI 12 or a CA 6
(http://thedirty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/l_44794d025b606f4554f5372fc966a683-copy.jpg)
Quote from: smellofhotbeeftips on January 28, 2010, 06:18:43 PM
No, KO's sins were of the carnal variety.
No. He also ran out on the recruits he brought into the program. Guys like Tony Miller, Peiper, Eford, McCaskill, Hutchins and Crawford.
Plus, he salted the earth by slamming MU, its fans, and the city of Milwaukee as he left town--which wasn't even overnight. He was on a plane out of town before dark.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 28, 2010, 06:33:33 PM
No. He also ran out on the recruits he brought into the program. Guys like Tony Miller, Peiper, Eford, McCaskill, Hutchins and Crawford.
Plus, he salted the earth by slamming MU, its fans, and the city of Milwaukee as he left town--which wasn't even overnight. He was on a plane out of town before dark.
Coaches leave all the time, and inevitably, they leave behind the players they recruited. And every fan-base thinks it got screwed, because their coach abandoned them. The same fan bases call for a coach's head if he doesn't win enough. So much for loyalty.
What O'Neill said about Marquette might have been unpleasant, but it was also true. Marquette did not have the facilities and support required to win at the level fans expected. He was right that Marquette had about reached its peak under him. People talked about how O'Neill left behind a Sweet Sixteen team and his successor drove it into the ground. What they forget is that the team was only a six seed, so it was not a perennial Sweet Sixteen team, and most of its scoring graduated. No way that team was going to be a one of the top sixteen teams in the country any time soon. O'Neill complained about people sending him video tapes of Bo Ellis cutting down the nets with a note saying, "Let's do this again!" as if all he had to do was go down to the store and order up a national championship. Never mind that it took Al McGuire his entire career under better circumstances.
People might not have liked what O'Neill had to say, but he was right, and Tennessee offered way more money with much better facilities and a much better conference than Marquette did at the time.
Quote from: smellofhotbeeftips on January 28, 2010, 06:18:43 PM
No, KO's sins were of the carnal variety. He has a voracious sexual appetite. TC, on the other hand, is all about TC. A wonderful quality in a leader.
Yes, because nothing screams leader, dedication, and loyalty than doing what KO did to his wife and family and any number of employers.
And if you don't think KO wasn't one of the most selfish people out there, you're kidding yourself. He was all about KO 24/7 at the time. His own words back this up.
He's 52 years old now, has matured considerably, but that wasn't that case when he was the head coach at MU or a few jobs after that.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 28, 2010, 06:54:29 PM
Yes, because nothing screams leader, dedication, and loyalty than doing what KO did to his wife and family and any number of employers.
And if you don't think KO wasn't one of the most selfish people out there, you're kidding yourself. He was all about KO 24/7 at the time. His own words back this up.
He's 52 years old now, has matured considerably, but that wasn't that case when he was the head coach at MU or a few jobs after that.
At least he drinks ale and chases tail...I also hear he is quick with a joke and to light up your smoke but there's someplace he'd rather be. Oh wait, that's Dukiet
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 28, 2010, 06:54:29 PMHe's 52 years old now, has matured considerably, but that wasn't that case when he was the head coach at MU or a few jobs after that.
You may be right. Looks like he got much better than he deserves but then she's Canadian, eh?
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/sports/80105.php
(http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/photos/2008/03/19/l80105-1.jpg)
One thing people must also remeber about Oneill was that when he took the Tennessee job he stated in the press conference and in the papers that the Marquette players should stay at MArqueete and that if they wanted to leave he would not take them at Tennessee, he said that of the incoming recruits too. And he was not saying that becuase the players were no good, they did extremely well under Deane and two of them ended up in the NBA.
On the other hand the dirty c-sucker that left was on the phone with MU commits trying to sell them to come with him to IU before his current players even knew he was leaving.
Oneill was crass and crude and there was nothing more entertaining than sitting behind the bench when Oneill was coaching but at least you always knew where Oneill stood. I always liked that about oneill and i like it about Buzz.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 28, 2010, 07:18:56 PM
One thing people must also remeber about Oneill was that when he took the Tennessee job he stated in the press conference and in the papers that the Marquette players should stay at MArqueete and that if they wanted to leave he would not take them at Tennessee, he said that of the incoming recruits too. And he was not saying that becuase the players were no good, they did extremely well under Deane and two of them ended up in the NBA.
On the other hand the dirty c-sucker that left was on the phone with MU commits trying to sell them to come with him to IU before his current players even knew he was leaving.
Oneill was crass and crude and there was nothing more entertaining than sitting behind the bench when Oneill was coaching but at least you always knew where Oneill stood. I always liked that about oneill and i like it about Buzz.
This is an excellent point. Crean had two of his assistants on a plane to Mobile the very day he signed with IU. Don't you think Nick Williams and his father now wish that flight had crashed?
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 28, 2010, 07:18:56 PM
One thing people must also remeber about Oneill was that when he took the Tennessee job he stated in the press conference and in the papers that the Marquette players should stay at MArqueete and that if they wanted to leave he would not take them at Tennessee, he said that of the incoming recruits too. And he was not saying that becuase the players were no good, they did extremely well under Deane and two of them ended up in the NBA.
On the other hand the dirty c-sucker that left was on the phone with MU commits trying to sell them to come with him to IU before his current players even knew he was leaving.
Oneill was crass and crude and there was nothing more entertaining than sitting behind the bench when Oneill was coaching but at least you always knew where Oneill stood. I always liked that about oneill and i like it about Buzz.
I was told by a member of the '94 team who was in the going away meeting that a certain under classman said: "I'm coming with you" KO said: "The F you are, you're all staying, you hear me, you're all staying and our recruits all coming here". That certain under classman went on to play in the NBA.
Quote from: The Lens on January 28, 2010, 07:32:06 PM
I was told by a member of the '94 team who was in the going away meeting that a certain under classman said: "I'm coming with you" KO said: "The F you are, you're all staying, you hear me, you're all staying and our recruits all coming here". That certain under classman went on to play in the NBA.
What a difference. What a supreme difference. KO is a Man's Man. Profane, with a taste for scotch, a good cigar, and a hunger for the ladies. What a difference from the Tanned One.
Now you got me wanting a scotch & a cigar...and I don't drink scotch!
Quote from: smellofhotbeeftips on January 28, 2010, 07:01:36 PM
At least he drinks ale and chases tail...
Yup, that's all fine and great. We all did it when we were single.....it just gets a little murky when you're the highest paid employee of a Catholic university and some of the tail you are chasing is currently matriculating at the same university (I'll leave out the rest of the details but). It's a crazy sort of thing that society frowns upon....go figure.
I am glad he told Eford, Shaw and Abrahms to stay at MU. We got a NIT out of it the next year.
O'Neil was the hot coach the year of the S16. Having beaten Kentucky sealed the deal with Tennessee. Not since the Bernie and Ernie show, did UTenn have that much success. Unfortunately for KO, the men's BB coaching job is the third option behind football and broad's basketball.
That's why the job Bruce has done is so remarkable. Hot ticket now and solid winning program. Of course, Pearl makes it fun with his style and energy, plus he's a great salesman.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 28, 2010, 07:51:38 PM
I am glad he told Eford, Shaw and Abrahms to stay at MU. We got a NIT out of it the next year.
Try McCaskill, Crawford, Pieper and Hutchins too...It is unreal how big of man-crush you have on all things Tom Crean. I don't hate TC by any means and can appreciate what he did at MU - but Chicos, you are rock hard for the guy. Why?
Quote from: Ners on January 28, 2010, 08:42:44 PM
Try McCaskill, Crawford, Pieper and Hutchins too...It is unreal how big of man-crush you have on all things Tom Crean. I don't hate TC by any means and can appreciate what he did at MU - but Chicos, you are rock hard for the guy. Why?
Nope, no man crush. I do appreciate the 2nd best run of any MU coach in our history, however. I do admit that.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 28, 2010, 08:21:23 PM
That's why the job Bruce has done is so remarkable. Hot ticket now and solid winning program. Of course, Pearl makes it fun with his style and energy, plus he's a great salesman.
Let's face it. Bruce Pearl, like KO, has a taste for the ladies. Following in the musky footsteps of his insatiable predecessor, Pearl has ditched Wife V1.0 and found solace and succor in the arms, legs and lips of those delectable southern belles. These are powerful men, men of vigor, and men of gargantuan appetites. They cannot be expected to be satisifed by just one woman. No, men such as these need to cut a fresh slice often and with tremendous relish. Bruce was only getting started at UWM. He has hit full stride in the moist folds of Knoxville.
Quote from: smellofhotbeeftips on January 28, 2010, 06:28:21 PM
(http://www.mu.edu/women100/images/cheerleader.jpg)
she's throwing up the "O"
Quote from: muhoosier260 on January 28, 2010, 10:38:35 PM
she's throwing up the "O"
That's KO slipping her the goose from behind. If you look closely you will see Bob Dukiet standing off in the bushes with a derringer in his hand.
great thread.
KO was great. And man could he swear. I got to see a few practices and man would he lay into Logterman. Like three or four minutes of F-bombs, following him up and down the old gym. I had never heard someone talk like that, except Yosemete Sam!
And man, beating kentucky was frickin' sweet. KO talked to Lute and Lute said give Tony Miller the ball and have him dribble right at kentucky's bigs. What press? TM broke it.
I was at Hags with KO right befrore he took that job and the students were raggin' him on and on about "Why did you even play Mac? You should have started McCaskill. Your an idiot. Big mac sucks." KO turned around and told them all that next year they would miss mac more than any other player. "You guys will wish I had redshirted him."
They are probably both A-holes with big egos (from all reports).
I'd probably rather hang out with KO because it would be an experience. I bet he's a fun guy.
I'd rather have TC as a coach because he won a lot of games and represented MU well.
Quote from: Ners on January 28, 2010, 08:42:44 PM
Try McCaskill, Crawford, Pieper and Hutchins too...It is unreal how big of man-crush you have on all things Tom Crean. I don't hate TC by any means and can appreciate what he did at MU - but Chicos, you are rock hard for the guy. Why?
really pathetic isnt it. Mu had some really nice years in the 3-4 years after Oneil left. BAut that is actually not the point. the point is he told them not to leave and they could not follow him. Compared to what the scumbag Crean did.
"I am glad he told Eford, Shaw and Abrahms to stay at MU. We got a NIT out of it the next year."
What a classless act Chicos is!
Anyone will rmeber the team struggles out of the gate but was playing at a very high level at the end of the year. those same players were a 4 seed in the NCaa the next year after getting to the C-USA title game. and then won a conference title the next year. Way to skew things. Chicos you are a true loser. Diminsh eveything anyone else did to prop up your boyfriend.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 29, 2010, 09:18:44 AM
really pathetic isnt it. Mu had some really nice years in the 3-4 years after Oneil left. BAut that is actually not the point. the point is he told them not to leave and they could not follow him. Compared to what the scumbag Crean did.
To be fair, Crean did leave Buzz with a team that had a legitimate chance at a final 4 run before DJ got hurt.
That doesn't mean Crean's not a "scumbag" (I'm not going to debate personal opinions), but Crean left Buzz with a lot better team than KO left Mike Deane, that's a fact... so let's not make KO out to be some sort of hero.
Also, outside of Tyshawn Taylor, I'm not sure who Buzz would have even wanted. He seems to have reloaded nicely with guys that fit his system, so maybe he didn't even want those guys.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 29, 2010, 09:23:34 AM
"I am glad he told Eford, Shaw and Abrahms to stay at MU. We got a NIT out of it the next year."
Anyone will rmeber the team struggles out of the gate but was playing at a very high level at the end of the year. those same players were a 4 seed in the NCaa the next year after getting to the C-USA title game. and then won a conference title the next year. Way to skew things. Chicos you are a true loser. Diminsh eveything anyone else did to prop up your boyfriend.
Not sure where Chicos is going here either...JD - in addition to Eford, Shaw, and Abraham -- Pieper, Gates, Hutchins, McCaskill, Crawford, Joseph and Miller were fine 'departing gifts' that KO left at MU. Sure next year's team went to the NIT, but that was Mike Deane's fault. The team had a lot of talent that was mismanaged all season long. Maybe I'm missing something here but KO sure didn't screw the program on the way out with the talent he left behind.
Quote from: smellofhotbeeftips on January 28, 2010, 10:09:42 PM
Let's face it. Bruce Pearl, like KO, has a taste for the ladies. Following in the musky footsteps of his insatiable predecessor, Pearl has ditched Wife V1.0 and found solace and succor in the arms, legs and lips of those delectable southern belles. These are powerful men, men of vigor, and men of gargantuan appetites. They cannot be expected to be satisifed by just one woman. No, men such as these need to cut a fresh slice often and with tremendous relish. Bruce was only getting started at UWM. He has hit full stride in the moist folds of Knoxville.
My favorite post of 2010. Things were never boring during the KO/Deane run.
Quote from: NYWarrior on January 29, 2010, 09:42:19 AM
Not sure where Chicos is going here either...JD - in addition to Eford, Shaw, and Abraham -- Pieper, Gates, Hutchins, McCaskill, Crawford, Joseph and Miller were fine 'departing gifts' that KO left at MU. Sure next year's team went to the NIT, but that was Mike Deane's fault. The team had a lot of talent that was mismanaged all season long. Maybe I'm missing something here but KO sure didn't screw the program on the way out with the talent he left behind.
Not to mention that team was the NIT runner up, and probably should have won it all. Not too shabby. Certainly the cupboard was bare.
Hutch was magical in the NIT
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 29, 2010, 09:29:22 AM
To be fair, Crean did leave Buzz with a team that had a legitimate chance at a final 4 run before DJ got hurt.
That doesn't mean Crean's not a "scumbag" (I'm not going to debate personal opinions), but Crean left Buzz with a lot better team than KO left Mike Deane, that's a fact... so let's not make KO out to be some sort of hero.
Also, outside of Tyshawn Taylor, I'm not sure who Buzz would have even wanted. He seems to have reloaded nicely with guys that fit his system, so maybe he didn't even want those guys.
what in the heck does that have anything do do with it. the point was oneill told the players to stay and told them he would not take them at Tennesee. meanwhile Cream is calling MU commits and asking them to switch to Indiana.
Tow which you and chicos want to debate the calliber of the players left over. All i can say is wow!! I would like you to address the character of a man that call s his current commits and attempts to get them to come to his new school before he tells his current players he is leaving. Also please feel free to address the actions of LAne Kiffin who did the exact same thing.. Now please adress the way Keving Oneill handled it. To even attempt to mention the caliber of the players is purely moot. In fact both coaches left players they would want at there knew school.
Quote from: NYWarrior on January 29, 2010, 09:42:19 AM
Not sure where Chicos is going here either...JD - in addition to Eford, Shaw, and Abraham -- Pieper, Gates, Hutchins, McCaskill, Crawford, Joseph and Miller were fine 'departing gifts' that KO left at MU. Sure next year's team went to the NIT, but that was Mike Deane's fault. The team had a lot of talent that was mismanaged all season long. Maybe I'm missing something here but KO sure didn't screw the program on the way out with the talent he left behind.
NYwarrior JD is vertically challenge and will argue anything to defend his former lover. he will rant and rave about what a scumbag Lane Kiffin is yet defend Crean for doing the exact same thing.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 29, 2010, 09:29:22 AM
To be fair, Crean did leave Buzz with a team that had a legitimate chance at a final 4 run before DJ got hurt.
That doesn't mean Crean's not a "scumbag" (I'm not going to debate personal opinions), but Crean left Buzz with a lot better team than KO left Mike Deane, that's a fact... so let's not make KO out to be some sort of hero.
Also, outside of Tyshawn Taylor, I'm not sure who Buzz would have even wanted. He seems to have reloaded nicely with guys that fit his system, so maybe he didn't even want those guys.
This is what is so funny. Hayward is saying how great KO was because he told CURRENT players not to follow him. Can Hayward name a CURRENT MU player that left MU to go with TC? No, because it didn't happen.
Yet KO did continue to recruit kids at UT that he was recruiting to go to MU, just as TC did. Absolutely no difference whatsoever. I think what has Hayward's undies in a bunch is that some of the kids that signed with MU he wanted to take to IU. And I agree, that's crappy (unfortunately it's done all too often, I don't condone it but it's done often).
KO did a nice job for MU on the court. Though he did have the 2nd worst season in MU history, he also got us to two back to back NCAA tournaments for the first time in a decade....but he left in huff, only gave us 5 years, slammed the program in public, acted like a complete dick in public, screwed his family over, etc.
He is barely a .500 coach. He rebuilds programs until he is run out of town for not getting along with coaches, faculty, administration, people in general....you can't change the stripes.
http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11877087
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 29, 2010, 01:26:22 PM
what in the heck does that have anything do do with it. the point was oneill told the players to stay and told them he would not take them at Tennesee. meanwhile Cream is calling MU commits and asking them to switch to Indiana.
Tow which you and chicos want to debate the calliber of the players left over. All i can say is wow!! I would like you to address the character of a man that call s his current commits and attempts to get them to come to his new school before he tells his current players he is leaving. Also please feel free to address the actions of LAne Kiffin who did the exact same thing.. Now please adress the way Keving Oneill handled it. To even attempt to mention the caliber of the players is purely moot. In fact both coaches left players they would want at there knew school.
OK, I think there's some miscommunication here. I apologize for that.
My only point is this:
It's not like TC took his entire roster with him on a plane to IU and left MU to die. He didn't take Mbakwe. He didn't take Hayward. He didn't take any of the Big 3. He didn't take SC.
The team he left was a legitimate contender. He didn't "rob" MU as you make it seem.
That's all.
I'm not saying that makes TC a hero or even a "good guy". I'm just trying to be factually accurate. Fact: TC left MU with a very, very good senior-loaded roster.
You can call the guy an a-hole all you want. That's your opinion, and many people agree. But, the facts are the facts.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 29, 2010, 01:43:44 PM
This is what is so funny. Hayward is saying how great KO was because he told CURRENT players not to follow him. Can Hayward name a CURRENT MU player that left MU to go with TC? No, because it didn't happen.
Yet KO did continue to recruit kids at UT that he was recruiting to go to MU, just as TC did. Absolutely no difference whatsoever. I think what has Hayward's undies in a bunch is that some of the kids that signed with MU he wanted to take to IU. And I agree, that's crappy (unfortunately it's done all too often, I don't condone it but it's done often).
KO did a nice job for MU on the court. Though he did have the 2nd worst season in MU history, he also got us to two back to back NCAA tournaments for the first time in a decade....but he left in huff, only gave us 5 years, slammed the program in public, acted like a complete dick in public, screwed his family over, etc.
He is barely a .500 coach. He rebuilds programs until he is run out of town for not getting along with coaches, faculty, administration, people in general....you can't change the stripes.
http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11877087
None of the players who played for Crean would have wanted to go with the douche bag. It seems some of O'Neill's players felt differently.
Quote from: NYWarrior on January 29, 2010, 09:42:19 AM
Not sure where Chicos is going here either...JD - in addition to Eford, Shaw, and Abraham -- Pieper, Gates, Hutchins, McCaskill, Crawford, Joseph and Miller were fine 'departing gifts' that KO left at MU. Sure next year's team went to the NIT, but that was Mike Deane's fault. The team had a lot of talent that was mismanaged all season long. Maybe I'm missing something here but KO sure didn't screw the program on the way out with the talent he left behind.
Never said he did screw it up....I thank him for what he did on the court as I've said many times before. The stuff he did off the court, however, was a complete embarrassment to the university. Thank God the internet wasn't around back then, let alone cell phones with cameras.
And yes, with the talent we had, how that team only went to the NIT is a mind bender. I just find the double standards continually entertaining when it comes to KO vs other coaches at MU. Very entertaining.
The main difference between KO & TC is that after 5 years at MU, another school actually wanted to hire KO.
TC always tried to leave, just nobody wanted him. It wasn't until IU had to go clean (eliminating a ton of candidates) and were said no to buy Few, Bennett, et al that TC was finally freed from MKE.
Inagine if after 5 seasons (2004) TC got the Ohio State job he wanted, without commitments yet from the 3 Amigos, he would have left MU with Steve, Travis and not much else. We would have been pining for Shane Littles and Richard Shaw.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 29, 2010, 02:00:54 PM
None of the players who played for Crean would have wanted to go with the douche bag. It seems some of O'Neill's players felt differently.
You could be very right...yet all his coaching staff who went with him. except for Buzz because TC basically pushed for him to get the job. ;)
The fact of the matter is that KO left some very good talent for Deane
TC left some very good talent for Buzz. Neither KO or TC took any active players with them to their new digs.
Deane wasn't able to continue what KO had re-started on the court. Buzz, so far, has been able to continue to some extent what has been going on the last 4 years. I'd love for him to be able to keep the streak of NCAAs going, but that's a tall ask for anyone. Maybe he can find a way....if he does, COY of the Big East.
Quote from: The Lens on January 29, 2010, 02:07:39 PM
The main difference between KO & TC is that after 5 years at MU, another school actually wanted to hire KO.
TC always tried to leave, just nobody wanted him. It wasn't until IU had to go clean (eliminating a ton of candidates) and were said no to buy Few, Bennett, et al that TC was finally freed from MKE.
Inagine if after 5 seasons (2004) TC got the Ohio State job he wanted, without commitments yet from the 3 Amigos, he would have left MU with Steve, Travis and not much else. We would have been pining for Shane Littles and Richard Shaw.
You mean there wasn't a single school who would have taken TC in 2004?
Quote from: The Lens on January 29, 2010, 02:07:39 PM
The main difference between KO & TC is that after 5 years at MU, another school actually wanted to hire KO.
TC always tried to leave, just nobody wanted him. It wasn't until IU had to go clean (eliminating a ton of candidates) and were said no to buy Few, Bennett, et al that TC was finally freed from MKE.
Inagine if after 5 seasons (2004) TC got the Ohio State job he wanted, without commitments yet from the 3 Amigos, he would have left MU with Steve, Travis and not much else. We would have been pining for Shane Littles and Richard Shaw.
I like playing imaginary games, too, with my daughter who is 8 years old. Tea party is one of them ;D
TC had several jobs, if he wanted them, including Arkansas and a few others. He ultimately said no, and he was rewarded with additional dollars from MU. That's the way the game is played. You sniff, you get paid to stay.
KO wanted out at MU after year 3....Mike Deane after year 2 (FSU and St. John's).....I see a pattern developing.....
The fact of the matter is that the guy stayed 9 years....KO only 5. Deane only 5. Dukiet only 3. Majerus only 3.
I hope Buzz stays 9 years and not 5, because it doesn't do the program any good to have a revolving door. Plus, it means Buzz is having long term success.
For those of you who still have your man crush for KO think it's a good thing that he left MU after 5 years, I think you're defying KO's own beliefs as well. It certainly didn't do him any good.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 29, 2010, 02:17:20 PM
You mean there wasn't a single school who would have taken TC in 2004?
There were many in 2004, a few in 2005 and many more in 2007.
2006 is when he had basically no offers.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 29, 2010, 02:21:20 PM
There were many in 2004, a few in 2005 and many more in 2007.
2006 is when he had basically no offers.
Well, my guess is that SOMEBODY would have taken him... it's just that nobody was willing to afford his salary.
It's not like he was great in 2003 and then suddenly nobody thought he could coach. MU locked him up and made it difficult for another school to come get him.
Crean had a good gig goin' on right here in Hicksville MKE. Had the administration scarfing up his droppings, had virtually all of the fans and alums fooled, and had blank check for his dept. expenditures and salary. He was as close to a "tenured coach" as is possible.
He tried endlessly to bolt. But, was clever enough to make it appear he was the hunted. It wasn't until IU had their tit in the wringer, that someone actually bought the cow. And, he owes it all to DWade. The cat not only paved his driveway, but also set himup for life as well.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 29, 2010, 03:17:20 PM
And, he owes it all to DWade.
We're going to find out, that's for sure.
Not looking very good at IU so far though.
Next year will really be the year that he NEEDS to start winning.
While Crean was an ass, he did represent the school very well. He brought life into the program as soon as he arrived and while Wade was a huge part of his success, to say it was only Wade is supremely unfair to Diener, Novak, Jackson, McNeal and others. While Crean overstated how down the program was when he arrived, the truth is he did a great job when he was here.
O'Neill also did a great job but he was not long for any place. His personal code of conduct did not fit a jesuit university. I was stunned by how little he'd changed while he was at northwestern. And while I don't know what happened at AZ, his falling out with Lute indicates that he still hasn't changed much.
If anyone wants to see a man's coach in action, check out Evil Pat's flick in another thread. The mold was broken after that one.
Quote from: The Lens on January 28, 2010, 07:32:06 PM
I was told by a member of the '94 team who was in the going away meeting that a certain under classman said: "I'm coming with you" KO said: "The F you are, you're all staying, you hear me, you're all staying and our recruits all coming here". That certain under classman went on to play in the NBA.
There are two reasons O'Neill would have said that.
1. His sense of personal integrity prevented him from accepting a transfer.
2. He didn't want the recruits at his new school.
Point #1 is disproven by the fact that O'Neill did not tell Ron Curry to stay at Arizona.
Lets also keep in mind the underclassman referred to above had stats that were not significantly better than Erik Williams on this year's team. There was a reason why that player was told he wasn't coming--and it wasn't because O'Neill felt bad taking a player with him from a former employer.
O'Neill took Curry because he thought Curry would help him win at MU.
O'Neill did not take any of the MU players because he thought he could recruit better players to Tennessee.
Making it sound like O'Neill was magnanimous for leaving behind NBA-level talent is hugely disingenuous.