MU, UW-Green Bay agree to three-year deal
Marquette University will once again play the other three Division I men's basketball programs in the state beginning next season.
UW-Green Bay has accepted a three-year deal to face MU, deputy athletic director Mike Broeker said Monday morning. The first two games will be played at the Bradley Center, and the third at the Resch Center in Green Bay.
MU has not played UW-Green Bay since 1996. The Golden Eagles are 7-2 all-time against the Phoenix, who are coached by former MU assistant Tod Kowalczyk.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/78686412.html
2 for 1's with both schools? Does that seem irresponsible to anyone else?
I had hoped they'd let the UWM series die after this contract is up.
Still have bad memories of MU at the Resch Center... yeeesh.
On the plus side, the athletic dept must be on pretty good financial footing to give up two away games to Horizon League teams.
edit
The contract with UWM was a 3-buy game plus a Home and Home, 5 games total.
The infamous contract:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2007/12/marquette-broke-contract-wuwm-21.html
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 07, 2009, 11:03:56 AM
If when you say "2 for 1s with both schools" you meant UWM .. that would be wrong.
The contract with UWM was a 3-buy game plus a Home and Home, 5 games total.
The infamous contract:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2007/12/marquette-broke-contract-wuwm-21.html
Read what Todd wrote:
The two schools currently have a five-year deal that ends in the 2011-'12 season;
the new deal would pick up from there and, like the UW-Green Bay series, include two home games for MU and one for UWM.It is a new, 2 for 1 deal, that would start after the current deal expries.
Oopsies. I just read the clip above, not the whole story. I rarely click the link to read the whole article, now that only summaries are provided via RSS.
This is pretty savvy of Buzz...he is obviously shoring up his home recruiting base whereas TC walked away from it or gave fuel for the fire when he entered a race. Bo is pushing 70, and his posse will be up for grabs. Good for SOS as well.
The real issue is scheduling. Its just hard to get even buy games now. MU gave season ticket holders a refund this year as the nimber games was down one from the original plan.
Quote from: Nukem2 on December 07, 2009, 11:57:34 AM
The real issue is scheduling. Its just hard to get even buy games now. MU gave season ticket holders a refund this year as the nimber games was down one from the original plan.
I think there was one last year too if I remember right.
Quote from: Boognish_MU on December 07, 2009, 12:04:11 PM
I think there was one last year too if I remember right.
No so. MU played its maximum # of games last year. This year, MU still has one opening
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 07, 2009, 11:14:32 AM
This is pretty savvy of Buzz...he is obviously shoring up his home recruiting base whereas TC walked away from it or gave fuel for the fire when he entered a race. Bo is pushing 70, and his posse will be up for grabs. Good for SOS as well.
Disagree on many levels. This just makes the overall non-conference schedule less attractive. You'll see less and less of NC State, Arizona, etc coming to town so we can play UWM, UWGB. I wouldn't be happy if I was a season ticket holder IF it means less games of bigger teams coming in. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I don't know how it can't have this effect. Or, MU might be saying they don't need as many home games as in the past, but that would shock me from a revenue perspective.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 07, 2009, 01:37:21 PM
Disagree on many levels. This just makes the overall non-conference schedule less attractive. You'll see less and less of NC State, Arizona, etc coming to town so we can play UWM, UWGB. I wouldn't be happy if I was a season ticket holder IF it means less games of bigger teams coming in. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I don't know how it can't have this effect. Or, MU might be saying they don't need as many home games as in the past, but that would shock me from a revenue perspective.
We have an open game this year that MU refunded money. UWGB fills in that slot with a guarantee. The BC was 2/3rds full for NCST. If Buzz gets MU to an Elite 8 level in a few years, I am sure Cottingham can find a cupcake to drop. Our OOC RPI is of no help to us either at the end of the year at selection time or with the state/region fan base. If we are afraid of losing to these two, then we shouldn't have to worry about UNC coming to the BC.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 07, 2009, 11:14:32 AM
This is pretty savvy of Buzz...he is obviously shoring up his home recruiting base whereas TC walked away from it or gave fuel for the fire when he entered a race. Bo is pushing 70, and his posse will be up for grabs. Good for SOS as well.
MU plays 18 games in Milwaukee already, why play an away game there? How does that help the recruiting base? And how many big recruits come from the GB area? Next to none.
MU will not compete with either school for recruits. And what are the odds this has any effect on a recruit? I can guarantee you'll never hear a kid say "I like the Big East competition, but I won't go there since they don't play UWGB."
If this at all limits our ability to bring in a BCS school for a home and home, it's insanity to give a 2-1 deal.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 07, 2009, 01:56:21 PM
MU plays 18 games in Milwaukee already, why play an away game there? How does that help the recruiting base? And how many big recruits come from the GB area? Next to none.
MU will not compete with either school for recruits. And what are the odds this has any effect on a recruit? I can guarantee you'll never hear a kid say "I like the Big East competition, but I won't go there since they don't play UWGB."
If this at all limits our ability to bring in a BCS school for a home and home, it's insanity to give a 2-1 deal.
And you don't think the Bo Posse wasn't badmouthing us throughout the state? Or Pearl in Milwaukee? Buzz is trying to rebuild that. GB area---hmm, how about Diener.
Playing UWGB or UWM doesn't help us one bit with in state recruiting. Do you really think that Bo badmouths us because we don't play UWGB?
Oh, and Diener is from Fond du Lac, which is actually closer to Milwaukee than it is to Green Bay.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 07, 2009, 02:08:29 PM
Playing UWGB or UWM doesn't help us one bit with in state recruiting. Do you really think that Bo badmouths us because we don't play UWGB?
Oh, and Diener is from Fond du Lac, which is actually closer to Milwaukee than it is to Green Bay.
Yes, Bo's posse badmouths us for everything. You are kidding, right? Read the Badger board where they are calling him "Scuzzy". Many of those posters are hs coaches. We are not even on the radar of upstate recruits because of the coach network. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought UWM was after Buycks.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 07, 2009, 02:15:03 PM
Yes, Bo's posse badmouths us for everything. You are kidding, right? Read the Badger board where they are calling him "Scuzzy". Many of those posters are hs coaches. We are not even on the radar of upstate recruits because of the coach network. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought UWM was after Buycks.
Why do we want upstate recruits? The ballplayers in this state primarily come from Madison and MKE. A few might come from the Fox Valley. Bo can keep the Anderson's, Gavinski's, et al. I'll take the Matthews, Maymon, and Blue any day.
Biases against MU/Milwaukee are NEVER going to change outstate. MU is seen as the snobby, private school in a big, mean city that has *gasp* black people in it. I know I'm painting with broad strokes here, but it's true.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 07, 2009, 02:15:03 PM
Yes, Bo's posse badmouths us for everything. You are kidding, right? Read the Badger board where they are calling him "Scuzzy". Many of those posters are hs coaches. We are not even on the radar of upstate recruits because of the coach network. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought UWM was after Buycks.
What "upstate" recruits have we missed out on because we are not playing UWGB? And if we can't out recruit UWM for anyone, our troubles are deeper than a few people on the Badger board. (And why do I care what they are saying over there anyway?)d
It would be nice to see MU play a team from Texas every year, like a Baylor, Texas Tech, or Texas A&M since Buzz' recruiting is strong in Texas.
Generally over the last couple years MU's toughest games have come in the preseason tournaments, then they play Wisconsin, and then almost every other game is a cupcake.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 07, 2009, 02:15:03 PM
Yes, Bo's posse badmouths us for everything. You are kidding, right? Read the Badger board where they are calling him "Scuzzy". Many of those posters are hs coaches. We are not even on the radar of upstate recruits because of the coach network. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought UWM was after Buycks.
I guess you have to ask the question, will any of that change by playing these schools? I say, absolutely not. They're going to hate on Marquette no matter what, it's what they do.
Plus, all we're doing is rewarding their behavior. There's not a chance in hell they will ever give MU the benefit of the doubt so I say F' em. If I thought there was some good will to be generated, great, but there isn't. It just doesn't exist so why curtail your program to reward agendas of people that hate MU anyway?
We are going down the model of St. John's and DePaul where they play all the little sisters in their neighborhood and eventually it bites them in the ass. Even if we win them all, and we should, it just screams regionalism.
I'd much rather bring in a Pac Ten team, a ACC team, a Big Ten team, Big 12 team with these non-conference home and ways then to waste them on UWM and UWGB.
ALRIGHT!
Time for some good 'ol schedule bitchin'.
Who are we going to blame for this?
The AD?
The head coach?
Tim Maymon?
Let's the insanity begin.
Quote from: 2002mualum on December 07, 2009, 02:57:46 PM
ALRIGHT!
Time for some good 'ol schedule bitchin'.
Who are we going to blame for this?
The AD?
The head coach?
Tim Maymon?
Let's the insanity begin.
Is Tom Crean on the list?
Lets blame Charlie Weis
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 07, 2009, 02:58:35 PM
Is Tom Crean on the list?
Nope.
That dude is long gone.
MU is MU.
Fans are fans.
People that like to bitch will always find a reason.
The schedule is low hanging fruit for those type of people.
If we sign up a 2 for 1 with UWM, doesn't even seem right typing it there should be questions asked of Cottingham.
Meaning he should outline exactly how MU is benefiting(hardcore evidence, not bullsh.t good for the state stuff.) Because the beneficial reasons miss me in going to the Crap every third year.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 07, 2009, 02:15:03 PM
Yes, Bo's posse badmouths us for everything. You are kidding, right? Read the Badger board where they are calling him "Scuzzy". Many of those posters are hs coaches. We are not even on the radar of upstate recruits because of the coach network. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought UWM was after Buycks.
UWM wished they could get in on Buycks, but had no shot. He was looking at high majors.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 07, 2009, 03:14:39 PM
If we sign up a 2 for 1 with UWM, doesn't even seem right typing it there should be questions asked of Cottingham.
Meaning he should outline exactly how MU is benefiting(hardcore evidence, not bullsh.t good for the state stuff.) Because the beneficial reasons miss me in going to the Crap every third year.
I dont think he is required to explain himself to anyone, other than HIS boss.
That's always the case in any employment situation.
But if the MU administration wants to have a pompous aura about them in how they run their basketball dealings I'll be happy never to give another dime to the basketball end for the next 50 years.
Can they afford it? I'm sure they'd laugh at my contributions in whole but if MU wants to maintain a great team in the small market area of Milwaukee they should think about the public image they present to their fans. I'd want fans to at least have a feeling of ownership in the team. Good for business.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 07, 2009, 01:56:21 PM
MU plays 18 games in Milwaukee already, why play an away game there? How does that help the recruiting base? And how many big recruits come from the GB area? Next to none.
MU will not compete with either school for recruits. And what are the odds this has any effect on a recruit? I can guarantee you'll never hear a kid say "I like the Big East competition, but I won't go there since they don't play UWGB."
If this at all limits our ability to bring in a BCS school for a home and home, it's insanity to give a 2-1 deal.
I'd argue that this deal makes a lot of sense from an exposure point of view far more than recruiting. MU is a brief mention in a sportscast in Green Bay compared to UW basketball...so any chance to raise our profile across the rest of the state makes sense IMO.
With that said, only playing 2-1 with UWM provides no additional benefit.
Quote from: TheManInGold on December 07, 2009, 04:09:22 PM
I'd argue that this deal makes a lot of sense from an exposure point of view far more than recruiting. MU is a brief mention in a sportscast in Green Bay compared to UW basketball...so any chance to raise our profile across the rest of the state makes sense IMO.
So an extra mention on a declining rating sports cast once a year is going to help out? Cmon...that's not worth anything.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 07, 2009, 03:21:29 PM
But if the MU administration wants to have a pompous aura about them in how they run their basketball dealings I'll be happy never to give another dime to the basketball end for the next 50 years.
Oh brother.... ::)
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 07, 2009, 03:21:29 PM
That's always the case in any employment situation.
But if the MU administration wants to have a pompous aura about them in how they run their basketball dealings I'll be happy never to give another dime to the basketball end for the next 50 years.
Can they afford it? I'm sure they'd laugh at my contributions in whole but if MU wants to maintain a great team in the small market area of Milwaukee they should think about the public image they present to their fans. I'd want fans to at least have a feeling of ownership in the team. Good for business.
You bring up a great point.
Look at the nickname situation.
A LOT of people are pissed about that and quit donating, and it's really hurting them now.
When will they learn to cater to the fans like us!
Good recruits don't come from NEW, thats just a fact. I think the highest profile school anyone has played at in the past 5 years or so has been Northern Iowa.
So the point is that there has to be some other philosophy underlying this decision. Fact of the matter is, I hope it isn't a state of wisconsin goodwill trip, because its just likely not going to work. A big reason for that is the way the UW system is built. Kids from Oshkosh, Stout, La Crosse, Point, etc... hell even GB and MKE usually would prefer to go to Madison. So root root for the Badgers is ingrained in a lot of these kids. I know that from GB, Marquette is associated with the private high schools, who are generally the bane of the high school fan's existence.
Maybe this has more to do with enticing instate non athlete students to MU and away from Madison/the UW system? Exposure that way? It would serve to explain a little more about the trip to the Resch...
Quote from: 2002mualum on December 07, 2009, 04:38:05 PM
You bring up a great point.
Look at the nickname situation.
A LOT of people are pissed about that and quit donating, and it's really hurting them now.
When will they learn to cater to the fans like us!
I forgot MU basketball is a cash cow and doesn't need to worry about the fans....as long as Dick Strong is alive and as long as the Big East wants MU maybe.
A couple quotes from an AD in the paper on his scheduling is far too much to ask, forgive me.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 07, 2009, 04:42:36 PM
I forgot MU basketball is a cash cow and doesn't need to worry about the fans....as long as Dick Strong is alive and as long as the Big East wants MU maybe.
A couple quotes from an AD in the paper on his scheduling is far too much to ask, forgive me.
I don't think that's too much to ask, and I actually agree that MU needs to continue to do a good job with creating "ownership" in the program.
However, let's not get our panties in a bunch and say things like:
"But if the MU administration wants to have a pompous aura about them in how they run their basketball dealings I'll be happy never to give another dime to the basketball end for the next 50 years."
Before we even see the rest of the schedule.
On the surface, I don't care for this game... but I wonder if MU is backing off of the "1 road game per year" thing. Also, given the preseason tournaments MU is getting in now, they are getting some pretty good "road games" under their belt as well... so maybe they don't really need a traditional "home and home" to fill out the schedule. I don't know.
I guess I'll just wait and see what happens.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 07, 2009, 04:40:58 PM
Good recruits don't come from NEW, thats just a fact. I think the highest profile school anyone has played at in the past 5 years or so has been Northern Iowa.
So the point is that there has to be some other philosophy underlying this decision. Fact of the matter is, I hope it isn't a state of wisconsin goodwill trip, because its just likely not going to work. A big reason for that is the way the UW system is built. Kids from Oshkosh, Stout, La Crosse, Point, etc... hell even GB and MKE usually would prefer to go to Madison. So root root for the Badgers is ingrained in a lot of these kids. I know that from GB, Marquette is associated with the private high schools, who are generally the bane of the high school fan's existence.
Maybe this has more to do with enticing instate non athlete students to MU and away from Madison/the UW system? Exposure that way? It would serve to explain a little more about the trip to the Resch...
Travis Diener was from Fon du Lac.
Quote from: 2002mualum on December 07, 2009, 04:54:53 PM
I don't think that's too much to ask, and I actually agree that MU needs to continue to do a good job with creating "ownership" in the program.
However, let's not get our panties in a bunch and say things like:
"But if the MU administration wants to have a pompous aura about them in how they run their basketball dealings I'll be happy never to give another dime to the basketball end for the next 50 years."
Before we even see the rest of the schedule.
On the surface, I don't care for this game... but I wonder if MU is backing off of the "1 road game per year" thing. Also, given the preseason tournaments MU is getting in now, they are getting some pretty good "road games" under their belt as well... so maybe they don't really need a traditional "home and home" to fill out the schedule. I don't know.
I guess I'll just wait and see what happens.
For the record I couldn't see myself getting to that point and certainly not over the scheduling. It was my hypothetical response to a MU higher up saying "F off" to me through their actions, which I really don't foresee from people of responsibility.
Is it possible Buzz could be thinking "neither of these programs sell out their arenas as it is". Therefore with a little marketing we could pack the rest of the place with MU fans thereby turning a road date on paper into what is more like a neutral court against a beatable opponent resulting in a read win which helps the RPI.
Ok, I admit I don't understand the whole situation, but wouldn't this just replace a Grambling st/SD/Mareyland Eastern Shore type game? We don't get any exposure for that, yet we have to pay for all those teams to play here, IIRC. Wouldn't it just be worth advertising MU (the school for students) to NE Wisconsin, building interest, and playing a tougher opponent? I don't see the downside. We wouldn't be playing Arizona or a school like that anyways.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 07, 2009, 02:26:44 PM
Biases against MU/Milwaukee are NEVER going to change outstate. MU is seen as the snobby, private school in a big, mean city that has *gasp* black people in it. I know I'm painting with broad strokes here, but it's true.
BINGO. Think of all the loathing and hilarious projection from UW grads that MU grads take. What do you think would be the reason for the even less intelligent average UWGB/UWM graduate to exhibit less irrational hatred? There is ZERO upside to playing them.
I really wonder if the people who don't see a problem with a UWM-type series have ever lived outside of MKE/MAD where 90% of the college grads, where you can even find them, live and breathe public university athletics like their at war against "rich" private schools.
Come to an Appleton or Green Bay bar with me and watch the UW-Oshkosh grads root on UW against MU because they think they're somehow tangentially also a UW grad and because Important People have all told them that MU is just a bunch of hyper wealthy elitists.
Quote from: warrior07 on December 07, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
BINGO. Think of all the loathing and hilarious projection from UW grads that MU grads take.
Uh...I am fairly certain that my MU education has never brought me any loathing or projection from UW alums.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 07, 2009, 06:28:41 PM
Uh...I am fairly certain that my MU education has never brought me any loathing or projection from UW alums.
Congratulations.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 07, 2009, 05:47:57 PM
Ok, I admit I don't understand the whole situation, but wouldn't this just replace a Grambling st/SD/Mareyland Eastern Shore type game? We don't get any exposure for that, yet we have to pay for all those teams to play here, IIRC. Wouldn't it just be worth advertising MU (the school for students) to NE Wisconsin, building interest, and playing a tougher opponent? I don't see the downside. We wouldn't be playing Arizona or a school like that anyways.
No, because we don't travel to any of those schools. But in this situation, every couple of years we have to travel to UWM or UWGB, thus giving up a true home and home with a bigger school like we've done the last few years with Arizona, NC State, Wake Forest, etc, etc. It's the away game that's the key in this whole thing.
Quote from: warrior07 on December 07, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
BINGO. Think of all the loathing and hilarious projection from UW grads that MU grads take. What do you think would be the reason for the even less intelligent average UWGB/UWM graduate to exhibit less irrational hatred? There is ZERO upside to playing them.
I really wonder if the people who don't see a problem with a UWM-type series have ever lived outside of MKE/MAD where 90% of the college grads, where you can even find them, live and breathe public university athletics like their at war against "rich" private schools.
Come to an Appleton or Green Bay bar with me and watch the UW-Oshkosh grads root on UW against MU because they think they're somehow tangentially also a UW grad and because Important People have all told them that MU is just a bunch of hyper wealthy elitists.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. But like with many things in society and life, someone thinks that doing this will "generate good will" and they'll like us then. Fat Chance.
If you're even going to do this series MU should have gotten at least one more home game out of the deal. UW has an 8 for 2 contract with UWGB over 10 years.
Quote from: warrior07 on December 07, 2009, 06:32:39 PM
Congratulations.
Thanks. Apparently I must be special because I don't know how MU alums can survive in such an oppressed environment.
Quote from: Wareagle on December 07, 2009, 06:51:20 PM
If you're even going to do this series MU should have gotten at least one more home game out of the deal. UW has an 8 for 2 contract with UWGB over 10 years.
Not sure if the money was different or what. Just a couple years ago we were holding firm that we would not do anything less than UW's 4-for-1 arrangement with UWM or UWGB. Now we seem to have caved completely to meet UWGB's demand and did the same to extend the pointless UWM series.
Quote from: chapman on December 07, 2009, 07:17:08 PM
Not sure if the money was different or what. Just a couple years ago we were holding firm that we would not do anything less than UW's 4-for-1 arrangement with UWM or UWGB. Now we seem to have caved completely to meet UWGB's demand and did the same to extend the pointless UWM series.
I attribute alot of this to
better relationships between the parties involved.
I'm thinking:
- It solves the problem of filling the schedule
- It probably has to do with travel expenses and cutting them down
- Keeping the Cheese State on lockdown by beating the UWMs and UWGBs of the world and occasionally the Badgers
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on December 07, 2009, 10:17:33 PM
I'm thinking:
- It solves the problem of filling the schedule
- It probably has to do with travel expenses and cutting them down
- Keeping the Cheese State on lockdown by beating the UWMs and UWGBs of the world and occasionally the Badgers
That's all well and good - but MU should have at least gotten a 3 for 1 out of each. Each of these series are replacing buy games where MU doesn't have to make a trip ANYWHERE. The buy games are all home games.
Quote from: warrior07 on December 07, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
Come to an Appleton or Green Bay bar with me and watch the UW-Oshkosh grads root on UW against MU because they think they're somehow tangentially also a UW grad and because Important People have all told them that MU is just a bunch of hyper wealthy elitists.
I'm from Appleton and this is 100% true.
QuoteCome to an Appleton or Green Bay bar with me and watch the UW-Oshkosh grads root on UW against MU because they think they're somehow tangentially also a UW grad and because Important People have all told them that MU is just a bunch of hyper wealthy elitists.
Being from Illinois I couldn't stand MU students rooting for the Wisconsin football team and trying to tell me that since we don't have a football team they can root for the Badgers and then for MU during the basketball season, but thats a completely other discussion.
I would much rather play UW-GB than a Grambling our RPI is around 100 currently and will most definitely go down to the 50 range come the Big East season easily. Name
another team outside of the Big East that has a stretch like ours in their conference.
Quote from: damuts222 on December 08, 2009, 09:05:55 AM
Being from Illinois I couldn't stand MU students rooting for the Wisconsin football team and trying to tell me that since we don't have a football team they can root for the Badgers and then for MU during the basketball season, but thats a completely other discussion.
I would much rather play UW-GB than a Grambling our RPI is around 100 currently and will most definitely go down to the 50 range come the Big East season easily. Name another team outside of the Big East that has a stretch like ours in their conference.
No one disagrees that we would all rather play UWGB than Grambling, but that ISN'T the issue. We don't have to go on the road and play Grambling (or N. Florida, or Presbyterian, or any other buy game). But with UWM and UWGB, these stupid deals say we do have to go on the road. That means we GIVE UP a quality home and home series with a name brand school.
That's the issue.
I still want to see a weekend tournament with all four schools.
On the first night, MU and Madison would play the other two and, in most years, would meet the next night.
Alternate having the tourney in Madison and Milwaukee -- perhaps up in GB every 5 years or so.
It will never happen because Milwaukee and Green Bay already play each other twice in conference.
Quote from: Badgerhater on December 08, 2009, 09:39:13 AM
I still want to see a weekend tournament with all four schools.
On the first night, MU and Madison would play the other two and, in most years, would meet the next night.
Alternate having the tourney in Madison and Milwaukee -- perhaps up in GB every 5 years or so.
It will never happen because Milwaukee and Green Bay already play each other twice in conference.
Almost. It will never happen because NCAA rules prohibit it from happening. Teams from the same conference can't play in the same pre-conference tournament even if there is no shot of them playing each other.
It's the same reason there will never be an all Jesuit tournament...or at least one most people would want to play in.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 08, 2009, 09:23:26 AM
No one disagrees that we would all rather play UWGB than Grambling, but that ISN'T the issue. We don't have to go on the road and play Grambling (or N. Florida, or Presbyterian, or any other buy game). But with UWM and UWGB, these stupid deals say we do have to go on the road. That means we GIVE UP a quality home and home series with a name brand school.
That's the issue.
I agree with you, but is there a chance that MU is loosening up one the "one road game" thing?
Maybe with the move the the BEAST, the pre-season tourneys, etc., MU can afford to take on another road game.
Maybe UWM really will take the place of Grambling, and once every few years MU will have to give up a home game, but they can afford to now.
Annnnnd maybe that's just wishful thinking by me.
It's a silly game because these games are always going to bring more danger then safety. It seems increasingly likely that MU will look to win the PR game in-state at the cost of a "marquee" home-and-home and fill the non-con void with a pre-season tournament. It means, in most years, we better do a hell of a job winning that tournament because our non-con victories may not hold much weight.
Buzz plays the good guy game. This is something he would never have any issue with. Cottingham is a Wisconsin guy. He was never going to stand in the way of making this happen. I'm sure he got just as mad at Crean when he balked on the series so once he slipped into the AD's office, and once Crean bolted, this was an avenue he looked to travel down.
Quote from: damuts222 on December 08, 2009, 09:05:55 AM
Being from Illinois I couldn't stand MU students rooting for the Wisconsin football team and trying to tell me that since we don't have a football team they can root for the Badgers and then for MU during the basketball season, but thats a completely other discussion.
I grew up in Madison and continue rooting for UW football to this day. (Although I own no Badger gear...but my UW grad brother keeps buying it for my kids...grrrr...)
Who else am I supposed to root for? My floor was filled with Notre Dame fans who rooted for the Irish all of the time. I'm sure that hasn't changed any. How is that any different?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 08, 2009, 11:58:34 AM
Who else am I supposed to root for?
Nobody. That's the sacrifice of going to a basketball only school, you have to be an impartial or indifferent college football fan.
Quote from: bma725 on December 08, 2009, 12:07:53 PM
Nobody. That's the sacrifice of going to a basketball only school, you have to be an impartial or indifferent college football fan.
I'm not making that sacrifice....sorry...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 08, 2009, 11:58:34 AM
Who else am I supposed to root for?
Anyone that plays Wisconsin or Notre Dame
Thinking out loud .. If you play Grambling for 3 years, you're paying ~$180,000 for buy-games. If you play UWGB, you pay zero, and give up one home.
I'm thinking one home game is worth about $250k in ticket sales for MU .. minus $60k for buy, that's $190k in margin.
Seems close to a wash.
Can someone slow down and explain this to me? For example, what happens at a game? Does the home team keep the gate? Do the visitors get a cut? What happens to TV/radio revenue? What do the $ mean, in the end, for determining an opponent? Wouldn't it just be best to schedule the best opponent that you can (given in state, etc.)?
Quote from: radome on December 08, 2009, 03:58:11 PM
Can someone slow down and explain this to me? For example, what happens at a game? Does the home team keep the gate? Do the visitors get a cut? What happens to TV/radio revenue? What do the $ mean, in the end, for determining an opponent? Wouldn't it just be best to schedule the best opponent that you can (given in state, etc.)?
completely depends on the contract that is signed.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 08, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
Thinking out loud .. If you play Grambling for 3 years, you're paying ~$180,000 for buy-games. If you play UWGB, you pay zero, and give up one home.
I'm thinking one home game is worth about $250k in ticket sales for MU .. minus $60k for buy, that's $190k in margin.
Seems close to a wash.
If we're paying Grambling that much money, we should have our heads examined. Most big time schools pay between $40K and $60K on buy games. And our revenues should be more than $250K per game on tickets.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 08, 2009, 06:44:26 PM
If we're paying Grambling that much money, we should have our heads examined. Most big time schools pay between $40K and $60K on buy games. And our revenues should be more than $250K per game on tickets.
Buy games have gotten alot more expensive over the past couple of years. I heard a pretty staggering number about what we are paying Presbyterian...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 08, 2009, 06:44:26 PM
If we're paying Grambling that much money, we should have our heads examined. Most big time schools pay between $40K and $60K on buy games. And our revenues should be more than $250K per game on tickets.
Right .. I took $60k over 3 years = $180k. I figured we were paying UWM $60k per year, and they have zero travel expense .. and that was signed 3.5 years ago.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 08, 2009, 07:34:46 PM
Right .. I took $60k over 3 years = $180k. I figured we were paying UWM $60k per year, and they have zero travel expense .. and that was signed 3.5 years ago.
Understood, but they should be in the $40K category in my opinion. The guarantee should include all travel, in other words it's not a double dip if we do it right. UWM we are paying about $60K. What worries me more is having to give up a home game against a quality opponent plus giving a program across town the shot at the title. I don't know why we do this. It's begging for a an upset or some other poor outcome.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wLC1BvCK-88/Sx5XxxtzRzI/AAAAAAAAARc/Jqx3foPKX40/s1600-h/muuwm2007qw5.jpg)
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on December 08, 2009, 08:55:22 AM
I'm from Appleton and this is 100% true.
So do they tape over the Green Bay, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, etc. for the game? ::)
The great news is that the UWM fans, Fran included, are ecstatic about the new deal (also some MU fan that is clueless as the day is long).
So hey, it's great that UWM fans are excited about this....because that's who we are doing this for...UWM fans. Certainly not for Marquette.
http://uwmfreak.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Blow&action=display&thread=4996
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 08, 2009, 11:15:16 PM
The great news is that the UWM fans, Fran included, are ecstatic about the new deal (also some MU fan that is clueless as the day is long).
So hey, it's great that UWM fans are excited about this....because that's who we are doing this for...UWM fans. Certainly not for Marquette.
A quick look at the UW-Madison board on the same topic made me laugh. A MU fan mentioned that UW-Madison should also offer a 2-for-1 to UWM and UWGB to which they responded that UW has more power than Marquette so they don't have to offer the same deal.
So, when Marquette doesn't play UWM and UWGB it is bad for the state of Wisconsin and shame on MU for doing what is in their best interests. But when UW-Madison isn't willing to give them more home games, it is because they should do what is in their best interests? ?-(
Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 09, 2009, 12:00:47 AM
A quick look at the UW-Madison board on the same topic made me laugh. A MU fan mentioned that UW-Madison should also offer a 2-for-1 to UWM and UWGB to which they responded that UW has more power than Marquette so they don't have to offer the same deal.
So, when Marquette doesn't play UWM and UWGB it is bad for the state of Wisconsin and shame on MU for doing what is in their best interests. But when UW-Madison isn't willing to give them more home games, it is because they should do what is in their best interests? ?-(
Yeah, I saw that too. They spent several YEARS whining about who MU should play and why we don't play UWM and UWGB and now that we're playing them in a better deal, well they're too big for this. Paul (BM) must be a helluva a girls grade school basketball coach is all I have to say because the brilliance from his keyboard is frightening.
It's similar to their arguments about the RPI last year. Constantly ripping the RPI because it had the Big East rated higher than the Big Ten so they would say KenPom.com is a better indicator. Of course this year, KenPom has the Big East rated higher than the Big Ten so no mention whatsoever. Classic (by the way, RPI has Big East number 1 this year also)
Quote from: bma725 on December 08, 2009, 12:07:53 PM
Nobody. That's the sacrifice of going to a basketball only school, you have to be an impartial or indifferent college football fan.
Or you choose a random team with some other sort of affiliation. Growing up I had a cousin in CO and thought Ralphie was an amazing mascot, and additionally thought Rocky Top was a really cool fight song, so thus I've always pulled for CU and Tennessee.
When do we schedule UW-Whitewater?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 08, 2009, 11:15:16 PM
The great news is that the UWM fans, Fran included, are ecstatic about the new deal (also some MU fan that is clueless as the day is long).
So hey, it's great that UWM fans are excited about this....because that's who we are doing this for...UWM fans. Certainly not for Marquette.
http://uwmfreak.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Blow&action=display&thread=4996
Its also funny to see them praising MU and talking about how its so much easier to like Buzz and Marquette the last few years. I thought Buzz was the anti-christ?
Quote from: JWags85 on December 09, 2009, 12:32:21 PM
Its also funny to see them praising MU and talking about how its so much easier to like Buzz and Marquette the last few years. I thought Buzz was the anti-christ?
Which is the opposite of Madison fans who started out saying Buzz could be likeable and have now aired allegations of dirty recruiting, racist team building, academic impropriety, etc.
MU will never win with all sides in the state which is why so many of us out-of-staters say 'unnatural carnal knowledge you' to all the bullshit spewed.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 09, 2009, 12:22:23 AM
It's similar to their arguments about the RPI last year. Constantly ripping the RPI because it had the Big East rated higher than the Big Ten so they would say KenPom.com is a better indicator. Of course this year, KenPom has the Big East rated higher than the Big Ten so no mention whatsoever. Classic (by the way, RPI has Big East number 1 this year also)
Another down year for the Big East.
(It's become my favorite cliche. You could make a t-shirt out of it for the BET.)
It was nice of the rodents to provide some great empirical evidence as to why this series is a lose, lose scenario. If we win, no big deal. If we lose, then... we look every bit as silly as UW did tonight.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I wonder if part of the idea here is to provide MU with one "cheap" road game each year. With two 2-1s and the Badgers every other year, this gives our players an opportunity to play in a hostile environment every year without having to devote the time or resources to travel out of state.
It seems that in most recent years, we've tried to do at least one close road game in the upper midwest (Valpo, Oakland, the tourney in Chicago last year, etc).
This does make some sense:
Good for the team: helps them to learn to play in a hostile environment. Give frosh and sophs a chance to experience going through the road game procedure early in the season.
Good for tourney: One thing the committee looks at is your road/neutral record. This gives us a good shot at adding a W in that column before the brutal road stretch in the BEast.
Two things about these games. One, most years they have fallen opposite of the UW series. When we play UW on the road, we played Valpo and Oakland at home. When we played UW at home, we travelled to both schools. Second, obviously, those teams are not top caliber schools. In both cases, you have a chance at a W in a road game. I'm not entirely sure if this is the best set-up, but it seems like something that the school has been trying to do over the last 5 years or so.
If that is the case (that these motivations are important to the school), then I think the two in-state series might make some sense.
First, as I see it, it guarantees us with one in-state road game each year for the next 4 years (please correct me if I am wrong, but this how I see it playing out):
09-10: @UW, UWM (year 2 of 4-1 UWM contract)
10-11: UW, @UWM, UWGB (year 3 of 4-1 UWM contract, year 1 of 2-1 UWGB)
11-12: @UW, UWM, UWGB (year 4 of 4-1 UWM contract, year 2 of 2-1 UWGB)
12-13: UW, UWM, @UWGB (year 5 of 4-1 UWM contract, year 3 of 2-1 UWGB)
13-14: @UW, UWM (year 1 of 2-1 UWM contract)
14-15: UW, @UWM (year 2 of 2-1 UWM contract)
15-16: @UW, UWM (year 3 of 2-1 UWM contract)
Second, we are guaranteed extra home games in all of these years that we don't have to go out and "buy". I'd rather play a UWM or UWGB than a Grambling or Savannah State.
Third, assuming that the UWM/UWGB games will likely be Ws, so a good chance at a road win early in the season in both years (although UW just proved that UWGB is no easy get).
Would I prefer to have road games against high major competition? Sure (in most seasons--in a rebuilding season, maybe not necessarily). But, there are obviously other factors at play here, and I'd be pretty surprised if these series are taking the place of a NC State series or Arizona from a few years back. Rather, I think you look at them as taking the place of a "buy-game" in the years that they are home games for us, and taking the place of the UW road game in the off years to provide good experience and a chance for a road W without a huge expense (or travel time during the end of the semester). In that case, I'd much rather that we play an in-state team than going to a Valpo/Oakland.
Altogether, I think that this is actually a fairly pragmatic solution--perhaps far from the "ideal" that we'd all like to see, but balances many competing interests well.
Mountin, the problem is that these little schools in Wisconsin make this their Super Bowl. They want nothing better than to knock off big brother. MU isn't going to run into that playing at Valpo, etc. I worry about our guys getting hurt in one of these games because the other side is so jacked up to put a notch in their bed post that they take someone out.
Plus, all it does is reward these other programs. The last thing I want is 4 strong programs in the state. It's bad enough with two.
Your point about injury may have some validity--certainly these games bring a higher level of emotion than some generic Directional Southern school.
But, even then, I wonder if that is a positive--we are going to play in a lot of gutsy, emotional games late in the BEast schedule: Notre Dame, Louisville, Pitt, UConn, DePaul all have good reasons for grudge matches with Marquette. I think it is good for us to play some good "pressure" games early on to get used to that. These games give us some of the pressure, albeit against teams that, at the end of the day, have less talent than we do or that we will face in the BEast.
I don't think that we should be afraid of these games, just because they are going to get jacked up about them. If we believe we are the best program in the state, then we should feel confident that we will continue to dominate these series. Sure, either team may surprise us from time to time...but, so did North Dakota State, and Valpo almost did on the road. I don't think that UWM or UWGB will be any more successful than that, and I don't think we should be afraid that they will.
Chicos .. if you want easy games, let's just go whole hog and move to an easier conference.
I'm not afraid of UWGB/UWM playing us like it's their Superbowl. I want that. Nearly every BE road game is Superbowl quality.
If MU is a real program, they shouldn't care a lick about playing a jacked-up team, regardless of the month. If these RPI 100+ teams play us tough in December, well, hallelujah, it's a hell of a lot better than playing a team better suited to be competing on High School courts where the only point is some revenue and a freaking show.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 10, 2009, 08:21:54 AM
Chicos .. if you want easy games, let's just go whole hog and move to an easier conference.
I'm not afraid of UWGB/UWM playing us like it's their Superbowl. I want that. Nearly every BE road game is Superbowl quality.
If MU is a real program, they shouldn't care a lick about playing a jacked-up team, regardless of the month. If these RPI 100+ teams play us tough in December, well, hallelujah, it's a hell of a lot better than playing a team better suited to be competing on High School courts where the only point is some revenue and a freaking show.
I don't want "easier" games, I want games that don't benefit teams in our own state that at the same time do nothing for us. There is a significant difference. I also don't want games against teams that have a huge chip on their shoulder and will do ANYTHING to win, and I mean anything.
The MU administration should be looking out for #1 and they aren't in this situation, that is why so many major programs NEVER travel to their cross town little brother opponent. Instead, we act like DePaul and St. John's and not programs we aspire to be that do it right.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 07, 2009, 01:37:21 PM
Disagree on many levels. This just makes the overall non-conference schedule less attractive. You'll see less and less of NC State, Arizona, etc coming to town so we can play UWM, UWGB. I wouldn't be happy if I was a season ticket holder IF it means less games of bigger teams coming in. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I don't know how it can't have this effect. Or, MU might be saying they don't need as many home games as in the past, but that would shock me from a revenue perspective.
Agreed. Only people in Wisconsin care about these games against the University of Wisconsin system. Even the Madison game means a whole lot more to those MU fans who live in Wisconsin or grew up there. The rest of us would rather see MU play NC State, Arizona, etc.
I've argued for years that if we are going to "help our friends" our friends are the other Jesuit schools. Who would you rather play: UWM and UW-Green Bay or two games out of Gonzaga, Xavier, Fordham, BC, Holy Cross, a rising Portland team, Santa Clara, etc. MU would play high-quality competition and get some nationally exposure. MU is already a big deal in Wisconsin.