per Rosiak:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/goldeneagles.html
Quote from: The Lens on September 18, 2009, 09:09:56 AM
per Rosiak:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/goldeneagles.html
Crap! How the heck does someone rupture an achilles tendon during a conditioning session.
Obviously, this is what that one poster (g0lden3agle) was overhearing that he thought was related to DJO.
Damn!
Edited to identify g0lden3agle.
Dog gone it!
Cadougan likely out for season
A turbulent off-season for the Marquette Golden Eagles became even bumpier Thursday, when it was learned freshman guard Junior Cadougan suffered a ruptured right Achilles’ tendon during a conditioning session and will likely be lost for the season.
The 6-foot-1, 205-pound Toronto native will undergo surgery next week and will need anywhere from four to six months to recover.
“We all know injuries are a part of sports,” coach Buzz Williams said. “As a program, we are all hurt and disappointed for Junior. He will receive the absolute best care possible prior to, during, and after his surgery. Even though he will not be in uniform this year, he will still be a valuable member of our team this season.”
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/59728677.html
Unreal. This really hurts. Gotta feel for the kid. A medical redshirt and keep him here for 5 years and hopefully our team in 2-3 years is ridiculous.
StillAWarrior - DJO is out for a month with partial tear of achilles.
Well the news around here keeps getting better. I hope that we start to hear some good news maybe related to our recruiting because otherwise I am going to go into depression mode.
Quote from: MUfan2 on September 18, 2009, 09:15:28 AM
StillAWarrior - DJO is out for a month with partial tear of achilles.
No, I'm pretty sure that is not right. DJO's injury has nothing to do with his achilles -- it's a tendon on the side near his ankle. The references to the achilles were not correct (and looking at the thread may well have resulted from confusion because g0lden3agle's friend heard players talking about someone on the team -- presumably Junior -- having surgery on his achilles).
This seems all to coincidental, is it time for Buzz to look at his off season conditioning program?
This kills us. Unfreakingbelievable.
Right to clear this all up, I saw DJO with a boot on sometime Wednesday morning, then yesterday a friend saw a player with a boot on talking about having to have achilles surgery, so I assumed it had to be DJO because how many booted players could there be on one team in a 2 day window? Apparently that's not a safe assumption to make.
This is unfortunate news, will Cadougan be able to come back from this strong next year?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on September 18, 2009, 09:14:46 AM
Crap! How the heck does someone rupture an achilles tendon during a conditioning session.
Edited to identify g0lden3agle.
Achilles tendon injuries tend to be freaky. I had a girlfriend rupture hers just walking down a sidewalk.
Freshman Junior Cadougan Suffers Achilles Injury
Freshman Junior Cadougan of the Marquette University men's basketball team suffered an injury to his achilles tendon Thursday afternoon during conditioning and will more than likely miss the entire 2009-10 campaign, head coach Buzz Williams announced Friday morning.
http://onlyfans.cstv.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/091809aaa.html
This is bad, lets just hope that Cubillan is healthy and can return to the player he was the first year he was at Marquette, especially with the latest news we are going to need him.
Let's hope the DJO and Junior get healthy, and that Junior will be ready to suit up next year.
Really tough news for Junior. Especially after he did all that work to get into shape.
I still don't think it kills us. Certainly hurts, but MU will be very reliant on Acker and Cubillan to give good minutes now. Absolutely need DJO to recover fully. That would be the killer blow.
looks like I picked a bad week to quit sniffin' glue.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines
down to three guards? 12th place is looking good.
This is just unbelievable. There seems to be a major development on this team every week!! When does it end?
Good grief, every year somone gets seriously injured. What is going on here????
How many players are left and we don't know if DJO will heal, Fulce will heal, Otule healed, and whoever else may take a chance of playing for MU.
What an insane month this has been.
This really sucks. Originally, I thought the NIT would be a very fair and doable goal for this team. Now, I think the NIT would be a heck of an accomplishment.
cue the MUScoop Rush to Jump of the Cliff tm.
By no means am I blaming anyone or jumping off a cliff, but at what point do you start to assess the conditioning program and trainers?
I know these are 19-21 year old kids, but with the frequency at which all these injuries seem to happen, you have to think there could be an effect.
The thought of Mo Acker playing 30 minutes a game at point just caused me to throw up in my mouth a little bit. Its going to be an ugly season.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on September 18, 2009, 09:23:21 AM
This seems all to coincidental, is it time for Buzz to look at his off season conditioning program?
+1. I know injuries are a part of any sport and we may just be running into a stretch where we've had some bad luck with them but if this trend continues, there has to be something that can be done. I'm not in the medical field nor to I pretend to know much about it other than what the average athlete knows so if anyone who may be more knowledgeable could shed some light on things that could be done to alleviate all of the injuries we seem to be picking up in training, it would be much appreciated.
some of the injuries *have* to be considered flukes. Otule had someone land on his foot and that caused the fracture. There's nothing you can do to avoid that kind of thing.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on September 18, 2009, 10:01:52 AM
+1. I know injuries are a part of any sport and we may just be running into a stretch where we've had some bad luck with them but if this trend continues, there has to be something that can be done. I'm not in the medical field nor to I pretend to know much about it other than what the average athlete knows so if anyone who may be more knowledgeable could shed some light on things that could be done to alleviate all of the injuries we seem to be picking up in training, it would be much appreciated.
Pre-season injuries last year to McMorrow, Otule, and Fulce. Anyone else?
Pre-season injuries this year to Odom, Cadougan.....someone else will fall before MSOE.
What a fucking mess the last five weeks has been for the program.
Quote from: Kramerica on September 18, 2009, 09:53:31 AM
The thought of Mo Acker playing 30 minutes a game at point just caused me to throw up in my mouth a little bit. Its going to be an ugly season.
He was never going to. Nor was Cadougan.
Buycks was going to start from the get-go. They are really going to need good minutes from Acker and Cubillan, and DJO needs to have a full recovery.
Also, there's more talent on the wings/inside than we've had in awhile. It should help mitigate some of the lack of depth in the backcourt.
Obviously it's not good news, but it ain't a death sentence by any means.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on September 18, 2009, 09:23:21 AM
This seems all to coincidental, is it time for Buzz to look at his off season conditioning program?
Otule and Fulce, newcomers under Buzz both were injured last year. This year we have DJO and Cadougan well before the first practice. It's hard to think of achilles injuries as conditioning related, but it happened to both of them, and newcomers under Buzz seem to drop like flies.
We're going to have a thin roster just like last year, only there aren't three seniors that can play 38 minutes per game each to carry us. Buycks is going to have to play well enough to be BE Newcomer of the Year or it's going to be a long season.
There's probably something in the character of our players that makes them get hurt easily. I blame Buzz. Granted, I follow offseason developments and recruiting much more now than I did in the past, but we have to be in the top 5 of all schools for player developments over the past two years. I don't think it's a direct result of any one thing, but man I wish it would settle down a bit...
Are there other programs with this level of injuries and other 'odd' player movements?
Broken/messed up feet.. OK, I can understand... but... split kneecaps, James returns in the tourney seemingly out of the blue, Liam's career ends before it even starts, Junior's freshman season is gone (what does this mean to his future as well?)... but, even before that.. Jerel hurt at the end of the year a couple seasons ago... Bam Bam Mbakwe's late season arrival after injury... then you add to the injuries things like Mbakwe running off as classes are about to start, Roseboro, Clark, Bowen, Acker... what's next?! Hopefully we sign some great recruits in November. That almost seems like the easy part of it - then the waiting begins to see if they'll make it onto the court ever.
Be grateful for the guys we still have healthy. It was going to be a rough year anyway, I'm just disappointed Cadougan won't get a year's of game experience in.
If we're sitting here next year with two newcomers out early again then I think Buzz and Todd definitely should look at if we should be easing the freshman into more intense workouts rather than just dumping them straight into it(re-evaluate their program).
Quote from: chapman on September 18, 2009, 10:20:12 AM
It's hard to think of achilles injuries as conditioning related, but it happened to both of them, and newcomers under Buzz seem to drop like flies.
DJO's injury isn't an achilles. I think that was a mix up in a different thread when someone reportedly overheard talk about an injured achilles and surgery, which now turned out to be Cadougan, not DJO.
AHHHHHHHHHH! %@*%$*^@*$^
>:(
For real?
This has been the single worst week in the history of Marquette basketball. Unbelievable.
We may finish dead last in the BE this year.
Wow...we must have the WORST luck with injuries.
How is Marquette Madness gonna go down now? Is Rob Frozena gonna start in the scrimmage?!
What is going on with the offseason injuries?? It's a shame that it took him so long to get cleared. He probably was pushing himself/was pushed too hard to try & catch up to the rest of the bunch. Damn shame.
Is this what we should expect to see this year now? (until DJO comes back)
Starters
PG - Buycks
SG - Butler
SF - Hayward
PF - Maymon
C - Otule
Bench
PG - Acker
SG - Cubillan
SF - E. Williams
PF - Fulce*
C - Mbao
* If healthy
Butler - SG? What? Acker will start at PG with Buycks potentially the SG.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on September 18, 2009, 10:31:05 AM
This has been the single worst week in the history of Marquette basketball. Unbelievable.
We may finish dead last in the BE this year.
(http://www.searchenginepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/chicken_little_dvd.jpg)
Quote from: copious1218 on September 18, 2009, 10:39:06 AM
Is this what we should expect to see this year now? (until DJO comes back)
Starters
PG - Buycks
SG - Butler
SF - Hayward
PF - Maymon
C - Otule
Bench
PG - Acker
SG - Cubillan
SF - E. Williams
PF - Fulce*
C - Mbao
* If healthy
Different people have different opinions on whether Acker starts or not at the beginning of the season, even before these injuries. It sounds like Buzz likes Maymon on the wing (Rosiak's article said he may even slide down to SG at times), which makes me think you've probably got Hayward and Maymon flip-flopped. Also, Mbao needs to be cleared by the amateurism committee yet.
Cubes is a bit of a question mark at this point, in terms of whether he's got the offense we need at SG. If he plays like last year, probably not. Otherwise, it's entirely possible we start the season with Acker/Cubes/Butler/Maymon/Hayward
Quote from: g0lden3agle on September 18, 2009, 09:26:34 AM
Right to clear this all up, I saw DJO with a boot on sometime Wednesday morning, then yesterday a friend saw a player with a boot on talking about having to have achilles surgery, so I assumed it had to be DJO because how many booted players could there be on one team in a 2 day window? Apparently that's not a safe assumption to make.
This is unfortunate news, will Cadougan be able to come back from this strong next year?
You never know. I ruptured mine playing volleyball and it was never the same. Long time ago, so hoepfully surgical techiques are much better, but a complete rupture (which is sounds like) is tough. The tendon is like a stalk of celery, and usually Achilles tendon injurie are a 30 - 40 year old injury - becuase the tendon dries up and gets more brittle as we get older.
This will be a tough one for Junior - and only time will tell. I pray for the best for him.
AlumKC - I know Butler is not a SG, but he should be in the starting lineup and it would be nice to not be playing with a 6'6" center in hayward or maymon if possible.
dsfire - I forgot about Mbao's amateur issue, thanks for the reminder.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on September 18, 2009, 09:26:34 AM
This is unfortunate news, will Cadougan be able to come back from this strong next year?
I remember, when I was huge into soccer, watching an MLS game in which Brian Ching ruptured his Achilles tendon by just accelerating. My dad also ruptured his walking up steps and land weird on one.
Anyway I remembered Ching ruptured his so I just Wiki'd him and found that he ruptured his in August 2003, during the season (A month before Junior). He missed the rest of the year. In 2004 he came back and ended up getting Comeback Player of the Year and was also elected to MLS Best XI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Ching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Ching)
So it is possible for Junior to return good and healthy. Redshirt him and have him healthy and dynamic for a year.
(I figured we all needed SOMETHING positive on here.)
Copious.
I think everyone would like to get Butler on the starting 5, but I can't see how he can be the SG. I think it's more likely that we see a starting lineup of Acker/Cubillan/Butler/Maymonne/Hayward as DSfire suggests. Then the lineup will shift as the new guys gain experience. Hopefully, DJO and Buycks will develop early and play big minutes for us.
Has anyone blamed Tom Crean and the tackling dummy yet? No, well let me be the first then.
Honestly, my expectations were pretty low this year and though injuries suck, I'd rather have it this year then during a year where expectations were high. On the flip side, I was really looking forward to seeing what Buzz could do on the coaching front this year with his guys, no built in NCAA team to inherit, etc. That now has an asterick on it for this year without an essential cog.
Quote from: eaglewarrior08 on September 18, 2009, 09:52:03 AM
By no means am I blaming anyone or jumping off a cliff, but at what point do you start to assess the conditioning program and trainers?
I know these are 19-21 year old kids, but with the frequency at which all these injuries seem to happen, you have to think there could be an effect.
I think you have to start to question the drills for incoming freshmen. I mean, the kids go from high school/juco to be thrown into a hellfire of workouts two-three times a day--got that assumption from the links about the workouts earlier this month.
I know for a fact my body wouldn't be able to handle it. At least take a look at it. Discuss the positives AND negatives and weigh to see if its worth it. From what I hear we have a darn good PT program here (We better I'm helpin'
the woman through it), do some digging and research. Are these all just one time freak accidents? Or is there a coorelation somehow?
If we end up starting Acker and Cubes we are in deep &*%$..........Buycks needs to start with Acker now. Hopefully DJO heals and we can get him off the bench for the early games to get his feet wet.
But if we start Acker and Cubes like the previous poster thought we would be screwed.....
I feel really bad for the kid. It seemed like he waited an extremely long time waiting to see if he would be cleared to play, and then this happens to him.
Quote from: Kramerica on September 18, 2009, 09:53:31 AM
The thought of Mo Acker playing 30 minutes a game at point just caused me to throw up in my mouth a little bit. Its going to be an ugly season.
IMO, Acker would have beaten out Cadougon anyway-----MA has successful BE and NCAA experience-----you just don't sit that experience on the bench for any significant amount of time.
Makes very few mistakes and hits the trey (44% as a soph and 44% in the gauntlet last year against those six top 12 teams)----also had a 2.5 to 1 assist to TO ratio.
Not a great PG, but better than your average Div 1 PG.
+1 Murf. Got the feeling that Cadougan had more to learn after playing with James.
Quote from: Murffieus on September 18, 2009, 11:35:05 AM
IMO, Acker would have beaten out Cadougon anyway-----MA has successful BE and NCAA experience-----you just don't sit that experience on the bench for any significant amount of time.
Makes very few mistakes and hits the trey (44% as a soph and 44% in the gauntlet last year against those six top 12 teams)----also had a 2.5 to 1 assist to TO ratio.
Not a great PG, but better than your average Div 1 PG.
Except that Mo Acker can't defend the bigger guards in the BEast. That was preventing him from playing significant minutes last year and really hurt us in the games without DJ.
What about Erik Williams? I haven't heard a lot about him this off season. Is it possible that we could have Buycks bring the ball up, and have Williams play the 2?
Early word on E Will is he is long and talented but really raw. Some have been saying he will be a player in the future but not this year.
I liked the chicken little post. I'm still waiting with bated breath for this board to give a measured response to something. Overreaction to both positive and negatives seems to be the norm.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 18, 2009, 11:14:46 AM
Has anyone blamed Tom Crean and the tackling dummy yet? No, well let me be the first then.
Honestly, my expectations were pretty low this year and though injuries suck, I'd rather have it this year then during a year where expectations were high. On the flip side, I was really looking forward to seeing what Buzz could do on the coaching front this year with his guys, no built in NCAA team to inherit, etc. That now has an asterick on it for this year without an essential cog.
same here, my epectations were low to begin with also. Will be interesting to see how Buzz makes adjustments throughout the year.
Quote from: jficke13 on September 18, 2009, 12:00:03 PM
I liked the chicken little post. I'm still waiting with bated breath for this board to give a measured response to something. Overreaction to both positive and negatives seems to be the norm.
I'd say take a breath before your career is killed before it gets started.
Batter up, young man. Show us the path to measured response.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on September 18, 2009, 11:02:40 AM
Copious.
I think everyone would like to get Butler on the starting 5, but I can't see how he can be the SG. I think it's more likely that we see a starting lineup of Acker/Cubillan/Butler/Maymonne/Hayward as DSfire suggests. Then the lineup will shift as the new guys gain experience. Hopefully, DJO and Buycks will develop early and play big minutes for us.
Anyone who thinks Acker and Cubillan are going to be starting over Buckys and DJO, you're nuts. Not going to happen. Experienced or not, the talent gap between the two is huge.
I don't like the thought of Buycks having to move to point guard. He'll lose a lot of his spot-up opportunities on the wing. Acker isn't going to be that big of a difference on the offensive end because of the points already said (passing, experience, etc.) but the scoring will obviously be down. Buycks, Hayward, and Butler are going to have to carry this team offensively.
Defensively, this KILLS Marquette. Acker is pesky and plays well when on his man, but his size (not just height) is a huge liability and point guards are going to pound the lane this season. I was really looking forward to seeing Cadougan play a Levance Fields-type defense and just out-physical his opponent over the course of the game.
1. Acker
2. Buycks
3. Hayward
4. Maymon
5. Otule
B1. Butler
B2. DJO
B3. Cubillan
B4. Williams
B5. Mbao (depending on a lot of things he will move up this list)
12th in the Big East would be a huge accomplishment. This should also speed up DJO's progression.
Quote from: Murffieus on September 18, 2009, 11:35:05 AM
IMO, Acker would have beaten out Cadougon anyway-----MA has successful BE and NCAA experience-----you just don't sit that experience on the bench for any significant amount of time.
Makes very few mistakes and hits the trey (44% as a soph and 44% in the gauntlet last year against those six top 12 teams)----also had a 2.5 to 1 assist to TO ratio.
Not a great PG, but better than your average Div 1 PG.
Define "successful."
Every starting Big East PG is better than your average Div 1 PG. That's not exactly a high hurdle.
Did you guys know that in those last 8 games we only gave up 3-4 points more with Acker than we had in the previous 20+ games with DJ-----I think that was to be expected since 6 of those 8 games were played against top 10 teams----and 3 of them were #1 seeds (that's top 4 nationally) in the NCAA.
So defending with Acker at PG was hardly a disaster.
Even though erik williams may be raw, I would love to see him start the 2 spot and have buycks bring the ball up. Theres no better way to learn then to get gametime experience, and since essentially this season we will be playing to develop our young talent and prepare ourselves to maybe make a run in a year or two, I don't mind living through the growing pains of have a sg that may not quite have the experience yet to be as effective as he could be. He may be raw, but hes top 100 talent, and you can't let a guy like that ride the bench, especially with the situation we are in now.
I hope he picks between Brian Ching's and Jose Contreras' doctor.
(Contreras problems this year were not related to the Achilles he ruptured at the end of 2008, he's a 50 year old trying to throw a 90 mph fastball with a dead arm)
Rest up, rehab well, and we'll have 4 years of Junior to watch.
Need help with the open scholarships now after this crazy month. With Roseboro, Bowen, McMorrow and Clark(extremely possible) gone. Acker back and Junior headed for a red-shirt year. What are we now for 2101 and 2011?
Quote from: nyg on September 18, 2009, 12:52:31 PM
Need help with the open scholarships now after this crazy month. With Roseboro, Bowen, McMorrow and Clark(extremely possible) gone. Acker back and Junior headed for a red-shirt year. What are we now for 2101 and 2011?
Likely on schollie next year (2010-2011):
DJO
Cadougan
Buycks
E. Williams
Butler
Fulce (if healthy)
Maymon
Otule
Mbao
Verbal Commit: J. Jones
So we still have three open scholarships for next season - I do not follow recruiting as well as others so I'm not sure who might be in the works besides Vander Blue, Cameron Clark, and Desrosiers
Quote from: nyg on September 18, 2009, 12:52:31 PM
Need help with the open scholarships now after this crazy month. With Roseboro, Bowen, McMorrow and Clark(extremely possible) gone. Acker back and Junior headed for a red-shirt year. What are we now for 2101 and 2011?
Cadougan's injury doesn't change anything for next year, we still have three open scholarships for next year. We have four open spots total for next year with Hayward, Cubes and Acker leaving and Roseboro's scholarship left unfilled. One is taken for next year with Jones, that leaves three open spots. Hopefully one for Blue, Desrosiers and another top 100 recruit.
Looks like the question about 2010-11 is answered... we should have 3 more scholarships the following year with Fulce, Butler and Buycks completing their eligibility/graduating and no one committed at the moment.
Another bright side to this (if you want to call it that), is that we can medically redshirt Cadougan for the season and he'll have an extra year of eligibility.
Just trying to make lemonade guys!
From Murff:
Did you guys know that in those last 8 games we only gave up 3-4 points more with Acker than we had in the previous 20+ games with DJ-----I think that was to be expected since 6 of those 8 games were played against top 10 teams----and 3 of them were #1 seeds (that's top 4 nationally) in the NCAA.
So defending with Acker at PG was hardly a disaster.
Murff, those figures are skewed (as usual, you only look at stats) by the fact that one of those games was against a St. John's team that scored 45 points in a game in which they had one of the worst halves in the history of basketball and another was against a slow, deliberate Utah State team that wanted to keep the score in the 50s. Mo tries hard but he and Cubes are going to get eaten alive by virtually every other BE backcourt.
Quote from: jficke13 on September 18, 2009, 12:00:03 PM
I liked the chicken little post. I'm still waiting with bated breath for this board to give a measured response to something. Overreaction to both positive and negatives seems to be the norm.
Thank you for putting things into perspective. Clearly having major injuries to your two best guards and having a major recruit for 2010 get arrested for rape is a fantastic week for Marquette Basketball.
Quote from: ecompt on September 18, 2009, 02:23:48 PM
From Murff:
Did you guys know that in those last 8 games we only gave up 3-4 points more with Acker than we had in the previous 20+ games with DJ-----I think that was to be expected since 6 of those 8 games were played against top 10 teams----and 3 of them were #1 seeds (that's top 4 nationally) in the NCAA.
So defending with Acker at PG was hardly a disaster.
Murff, those figures are skewed (as usual, you only look at stats) by the fact that one of those games was against a St. John's team that scored 45 points in a game in which they had one of the worst halves in the history of basketball and another was against a slow, deliberate Utah State team that wanted to keep the score in the 50s. Mo tries hard but he and Cubes are going to get eaten alive by virtually every other BE backcourt.
ECOMPT----did you know that with Acker we held St John's to 11 fewer points than with DJ at PG----also did you know that we held NOVA to 20+ fewer point than with DJ just a few weeks prior?
Then playing against just six of the best teams in the USA we were only gave up about 6 ppg more?
I don't think we should recruit kids from Canada any more. They're obviously high risk for injuries.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on September 18, 2009, 04:08:49 PM
Thank you for putting things into perspective. Clearly having major injuries to your two best guards and having a major recruit for 2010 get arrested for rape is a fantastic week for Marquette Basketball.
The reason I posted that is you tend to be one of the more alarmist posters on this board. Here's my reasoned response-
First, DJO's has never been reported as a major injury. Second, Cadougan was not going to start this year. He was behind Buycks already, and if you think Mo has a hard time defending, Junior was going to have even more trouble. All this means is Mo and Cubi have to step up. They have enough cover between DJO, Buycks, Butler, Acker, and Cubillan to cover the guard spots. We also have more talent at the wing/post spots to help make up the difference.
The Clark situation is terrible, but it did not happen here. As long as it is not the start of a trend, in the long run it's not going to damage the program. Especially with the amount of talent Buzz is on for 2010.
I'd argue that losing to SLU and Western Michigan in one week was a hell of a lot worse than this.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on September 18, 2009, 04:08:49 PM
Thank you for putting things into perspective. Clearly having major injuries to your two best guards and having a major recruit for 2010 get arrested for rape is a fantastic week for Marquette Basketball.
Might I suggest that a) it's premature to declare a couple of guys that never have played a second of D-I basketball MU's "best" guards and b) DJO being out with a sprain all the way up to when practice begins is hardly a "major" injury?
No, nothing alarmist here.
By the way, which of MU's 2010 recruits are minor?
season, meet toilet.
You're right, Murff, the substitution of Acker for DJ lured St. John's into 8% percent first-half shooting. And the Nova game was AT Nova on a night when they shot like 60 percent on threes in the second half. Will you please stop analyzing games just by looking at stats? You are way too smart for that.
I'm a graduate physical therapist from Marquette. So I'll try and sort through things. If you have any questions, please let me know.
1. Torn Achilles for Cadougan. Probably random and has nothing to do with the training program, unless he was doing something specific with a lot of weight for a lot of repetitions.
2. DJO- from what I'm gathering on the board, he probably has a sprained ankle/ strained peroneal tendon unit. Normal individuals would hobble around for a few days. For DJO, he's in a walking boot and will be rehabbed accordingly. Now I'm remembering Todd's article, that said he would be out 6? weeks, so probably a pretty significant ankle or foot sprain.
3. Fulce/ McMorrow- not sure what is going on there. Stress fractures always bother me, because I think they are preventable, but who knows what was going on before he got to MU.
4. O'Tule- like someone said, broken feet are also random, when someone lands on it. Big guys are also known for brittle feet bones, see Yao Ming.
As for the training staff as a whole, it was impressive from what I saw in last season's YouTube video. I don't agree with the rehab or training of athletic trainers/ strength and conditioning guys 100% of the time. If you ever want to watch how not to train someone, watch the Biggest Loser. Guarantee someone comes down with a pretty significant orthopedic injury in that show every season. In conclusion, most injuries are random, but things that don't heal or stress fractures may be from pushing too hard.
Quote from: Kramerica on September 18, 2009, 09:53:31 AM
The thought of Mo Acker playing 30 minutes a game at point just caused me to throw up in my mouth a little bit. Its going to be an ugly season.
Don't insult Acker, he might quit again.
We now are fighting DePaul for 15th place.
Doesnt Niv have some eligibility?
Quote from: mviale on September 19, 2009, 01:09:23 AM
Doesnt Niv have some eligibility?
I heard Roseboro was good with the ball.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 19, 2009, 01:13:39 AM
I heard Roseboro was good with the ball.
Man-up this year. It could bring back memories of the point years with Logterman, anglavar and candelino.
Quote from: mviale on September 19, 2009, 01:21:54 AM
Man-up this year. It could bring back memories of the point years with Logterman, anglavar and candelino.
Only if we sign a shoe deal with LA Gear at the same time
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 18, 2009, 07:43:43 PM
season, meet toilet.
panic, meet button.
Who knew the entire season rested on a freshman point guard?
Quote from: Pakuni on September 19, 2009, 08:44:03 AM
panic, meet button.
Who knew the entire season rested on a freshman point guard?
you really want to go into a season with 10 players (assuming no one else gets hurt!), most of which have zero BE experience?
every player we lose on the bench kills this team a little more.
I hear maymon can point - no worries
Actually after that successful run that Acker had last year vs those top rated teams, he would have been very hard to beat out. Can hit the trey, capable of 3-4 apg this year, handles the ball extraordinarily well, and doesn't make many mistakes.
The loss of Coudagon hurts our depth is all, but does not dramatically change our fortunes. With Cadougan Buzz probably would have played that overrated 3 guard offense. Now he will probably go to a two guard offense with one of them on the wing-----this opens up opportunities for others like Erik Williams (wing) and of course Butler at wing.
A starting lineup of Acker, DJO/Williams/Bucyks, Butler, Lazar, and Otule will be formidable. Three guys with successful NCAA & BE experience and 2 rookies-----things could be worse.
I'm going to start looking out my window for locusts.
First, I agreed with PRN and now I agree with Murf. Some of you need to back away from the ledge. We weren't going to tear up the Big East with Cadougan and I don't think we will be that much worse without him. Remember, this isn't like DJ's first year when we literally had no one that could play the point coming back. (If any of you mention Joe Chapman, I will ask that the mods ban you from the board) Acker provides continuity and stability in a true transition year.
My concerns aren't for this year. We weren't going to be all that good anyway, and this certainly isn't going to be the make or break of the season.
I am more concerned about how this my impact him for the four years after this one. Will he ever get his mobility back? I just don't know the long term implications.
I am also concerned about his mental state. He wasn't here this summer so he didn't get the bonding time with his teammates. Hopefully he will find MU to be a supportive atmosphere and will come back in 2010.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 19, 2009, 10:24:28 AM
you really want to go into a season with 10 players (assuming no one else gets hurt!), most of which have zero BE experience?
every player we lose on the bench kills this team a little more.
10 players? I count 11, excluding Frozena (Acker, Butler, Buycks, Cubie, Fulce, Hayward, DJO, Maymon, Mbao, Otule, Williams).
Regardless, of the two that have dropped off, one of them was unlikely to see many, if any, minutes once the team gets into the meat of the schedule. It's the equivalent of losing a walkon ... one less body able to contribute in practices, but no real impact in games.
The other, Cadougan, probably hurts. But I fail to see how losing a freshman point guard (or Roseboiro, for that matter) affects the team's "BE experience". If anything, it means more playing time for guys with "BE experience."
Again, losing Cadougan very well could hurt. But it's a long, long way from a season killer.
Can someone get me a discount on a connector from Tel Aviv to Milwaukee?
Quote from: Murffieus on September 19, 2009, 11:19:27 AM
A starting lineup of Acker, DJO/Williams/Bucyks, Butler, Lazar, and Otule will be formidable. Three guys with successful NCAA & BE experience and 2 rookies-----things could be worse.
You're kidding yourself if you don't think Maymon is starting. It's a lock.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 19, 2009, 01:21:50 PM
10 players? I count 11, excluding Frozena (Acker, Butler, Buycks, Cubie, Fulce, Hayward, DJO, Maymon, Mbao, Otule, Williams).
Regardless, of the two that have dropped off, one of them was unlikely to see many, if any, minutes once the team gets into the meat of the schedule. It's the equivalent of losing a walkon ... one less body able to contribute in practices, but no real impact in games.
The other, Cadougan, probably hurts. But I fail to see how losing a freshman point guard (or Roseboiro, for that matter) affects the team's "BE experience". If anything, it means more playing time for guys with "BE experience."
Again, losing Cadougan very well could hurt. But it's a long, long way from a season killer.
You've taken a pretty rosy view of the situation.
In 24 hours, we've lost two players who were considered starter-material. One of them has been very good during summer scrimmages whom luckily we will get back but will lost time hurt him? The other was nearly a de facto starter (delayed a bit) since he committed and his loss is big even though he's never played a minute.
Not to mention the players left who have issues in Fulce with his health problems and Mbao who will have a suspension. Throw in two most likely starters in Buycks and Maymon that have never played at this level and you could see why some people think the season is teetering on the toilet.
Quote from: nyg on September 18, 2009, 12:52:31 PM
Need help with the open scholarships now after this crazy month. With Roseboro, Bowen, McMorrow and Clark(extremely possible) gone. Acker back and Junior headed for a red-shirt year. What are we now for 2101 and 2011?
FYI - for scholarship questions, bookmark this page:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8
I need to update (once again) to remove Clark from the 2010-11 class, so add 1 scholarship there, but the rest of the years should be accurate.
Quote from: Murffieus on September 18, 2009, 12:27:32 PM
Did you guys know that in those last 8 games we only gave up 3-4 points more with Acker than we had in the previous 20+ games with DJ-----I think that was to be expected since 6 of those 8 games were played against top 10 teams----and 3 of them were #1 seeds (that's top 4 nationally) in the NCAA.
So defending with Acker at PG was hardly a disaster.
Did you know in our last 8 games we were 2-6? It's about winning and losing. And we were 2-6 with Mo as a starter. Nothing else matters.
Quote from: Silky on September 19, 2009, 03:44:05 PM
Did you know in our last 8 games we were 2-6? It's about winning and losing. And we were 2-6 with Mo as a starter. Nothing else matters.
To be fair, our end of the year schedule last year was brutal - tough for ANY team n the BEast or anywhere else to play. And wold have been tough WITH DJ.
Quote from: Silky on September 19, 2009, 03:44:05 PM
Did you know in our last 8 games we were 2-6? It's about winning and losing. And we were 2-6 with Mo as a starter. Nothing else matters.
You seriously don't think the fact that five of those six teams were elite eight (and the sixth was a sweet 16) matters even a little? ::)
Fine, don't buy Muff's contention that Acker is as good as James.
But don't be stupid the other direction and pretend that one point loss to VU (on a last second hoop no less), 4 point losses to Missouri and Louisville, OT versus Syracuse or a solid game against UConn "don't matter".
We lost the games, but give Acker a fair shake--he played decently, and put up a 2-1 assist to TO ratio against the six toughest opponents of the season. With the possible exception of Villanova, its unlikely we face anyone as tough as any of those five teams this season.
If Acker can match what he showed down the stretch, we'll be fine when the opposition isn't the elite eight.
I really hope that Buycks shows enough at 1 that we don't need Acker to start. We know Acker's upside...and it isn't all that up.
The problem with Lil Mo is he can't slash to the basket - too small. We need a point who can threaten to take it home, then dish off etc.
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 19, 2009, 04:38:23 PM
You seriously don't think the fact that five of those six teams were elite eight (and the sixth was a sweet 16) matters even a little? ::)
Fine, don't buy Muff's contention that Acker is as good as James.
But don't be stupid the other direction and pretend that one point loss to VU (on a last second hoop no less), 4 point losses to Missouri and Louisville, OT versus Syracuse or a solid game against UConn "don't matter".
We lost the games, but give Acker a fair shake--he played decently, and put up a 2-1 assist to TO ratio against the six toughest opponents of the season. With the possible exception of Villanova, its unlikely we face anyone as tough as any of those five teams this season.
If Acker can match what he showed down the stretch, we'll be fine when the opposition isn't the elite eight.
wow, how can one respond to that. I agree 100%. Acker played well.
I think Acker and Otule play together. Otule is not a ball handler and needs someone to get the ball to him. However, I believe it is time for Buzz to play his recruits. I think we will see Hayward, Williams, Butler and
Maymon on the floor with one guard a significant amount of the time. It sounds like Fulce is recovering and he can sub for any of the four swingmen.
Quote from: chapman on September 19, 2009, 02:18:20 PM
You're kidding yourself if you don't think Maymon is starting. It's a lock.
Well if Otule has made the strides Buzz says he has----he will start at center-----Lazar isn't as helpful to the team on the perimeter as he is inside-----so he starts at #4.
From what I've seen of Maymon----he's most effective as a back to the basket guy-----not a perimeter guy. So in order for Maymon to start he has to beat out Otule or Lazar.
Otule could improve 400% and still not get off the bench. I think Buzz needs to play Williams and Maymon.
Quote from: bilsu on September 19, 2009, 08:36:59 PM
Otule could improve 400% and still not get off the bench. I think Buzz needs to play Williams and Maymon.
Completely on point. Listen... you don't go from a center that can't get time on a team without a center to some stud in a year (or ever?). I hope Otule gets biz and becomes a solid contributor, but to think he's some 30 minute guy that controls the paint is just stupid. This season depends on X number of newcomers stepping up. X depends on how and when. It's not going to be Otule.
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 18, 2009, 05:06:33 PM
The reason I posted that is you tend to be one of the more alarmist posters on this board. Here's my reasoned response-
How am I one of the more alarmist posters on this board? When James went down and everyone was doom and gloom, I (perhaps somewhat stupidly) thought we would be alright in the BE tourney and still make the Sweet 16 in the NCAA's.
Multiple experts list Cadougan as the key to our season this year, losing him is big and losing DJO for 6 weeks will definitely slow down his development.
In case you didn't notice our BE schedule starts out with @WV, Villanova, G-town, @Villanova. The Old Spice Classic, NC State, and @Wisconsin games are also going to be extremely tough with a Sun Belt PG and a short bench.
Losing Cadougan obviously really hurts this team. I'm not so sure the sky is falling, though. I thought Buycks would win the starting PG position prior to JC's injury. Now, I see Buycks as a 30+ mpg PG. We have no depth right now, but as it stands, I think we have quality guys playing all the minutes.....one more injury and we are up the creek.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 19, 2009, 02:39:57 PM
You've taken a pretty rosy view of the situation.
In 24 hours, we've lost two players who were considered starter-material. One of them has been very good during summer scrimmages whom luckily we will get back but will lost time hurt him? The other was nearly a de facto starter (delayed a bit) since he committed and his loss is big even though he's never played a minute.
Not to mention the players left who have issues in Fulce with his health problems and Mbao who will have a suspension. Throw in two most likely starters in Buycks and Maymon that have never played at this level and you could see why some people think the season is teetering on the toilet.
exactly. and if everyone is sure that DJO will be back and running around by Midnight Madness they are probably kidding themeselves.
Quote from: bilsu on September 19, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
I think Acker and Otule play together. Otule is not a ball handler and needs someone to get the ball to him. However, I believe it is time for Buzz to play his recruits. I think we will see Hayward, Williams, Butler and
Maymon on the floor with one guard a significant amount of the time. It sounds like Fulce is recovering and he can sub for any of the four swingmen.
bilsu-----getting the ball down low to the low postup isn't a high wire act----it can be taught-----rather basic stuff.
True, Murff. But the low-post player has to catch the ball and then do something productive with it.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 19, 2009, 08:47:36 PM
Completely on point. Listen... you don't go from a center that can't get time on a team without a center to some stud in a year (or ever?). I hope Otule gets biz and becomes a solid contributor, but to think he's some 30 minute guy that controls the paint is just stupid. This season depends on X number of newcomers stepping up. X depends on how and when. It's not going to be Otule.
Totally agree. From what we saw last season I cannot envision Otule starting this year. I'm hoping for about 10-15 minutes a game.
Quote from: Norm on September 21, 2009, 10:22:51 AM
Totally agree. From what we saw last season I cannot envision Otule starting this year. I'm hoping for about 10-15 minutes a game.
Of course, from what we saw of Chris Crawford's or Amal McCaskill's freshmen seasons, one couldn't imagine them starting either.
Because Otule missed so much time last year, I don't think you can base expectations on how he performed.
Its a new season--let's give him the benefit of the doubt on his injury-plagued freshman season before making the blanket statements that he can't play.
Quote from: ecompt on September 21, 2009, 09:42:12 AM
True, Murff. But the low-post player has to catch the ball and then do something productive with it.
Actually, Otule catches the ball far better than Burke or Barro. His problem, as Rosiak noted in his open-gym notes, is finishing to the basket. He may not get 30 minutes; but, he is not as bad as some posters here portray him to be.
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 21, 2009, 12:36:49 PM
Of course, from what we saw of Chris Crawford's or Amal McCaskill's freshmen seasons, one couldn't imagine them starting either.
Because Otule missed so much time last year, I don't think you can base expectations on how he performed.
Its a new season--let's give him the benefit of the doubt on his injury-plagued freshman season before making the blanket statements that he can't play.
I hope you are right, but Otule seemed to be absolutely lost and in over his head every time he played last year. Crawford was much farther along and McCaskill at least showed some athleticism.
I like Otule, but the problem with him is that he is virtually blind in one eye, which effects his depth perception. His hands are not bad, he does not handle passes well because of his eyes. Same probelm with scoring the ball.
Quote from: bilsu on September 21, 2009, 01:35:56 PM
I like Otule, but the problem with him is that he is virtually blind in one eye, which effects his depth perception. His hands are not bad, he does not handle passes well because of his eyes. Same probelm with scoring the ball.
This is the first I've heard of this. His glasses don't solve the issue? Is this something that lasik can't fix?
If that is true, why would you recruit a half-blind man to play basketball?
Quote from: SCdem@MU on September 21, 2009, 02:34:46 PM
This is the first I've heard of this. His glasses don't solve the issue? Is this something that lasik can't fix?
If that is true, why would you recruit a half-blind man to play basketball?
Crean was desparate.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 21, 2009, 03:32:26 PM
Crean was desparate.
But we were told this was a Buzz recruit with his Texas connections. I'm so confused ;D
I thought it was more a drooping eye kind of thing rather than site or no site. The gallses were protective too. I don't know - maybe I'm remembering this wrong.... seems so long ago lol
Wow, have been out-of-pocket for a while so just seeing this. I apologize for thinking it was good to have Mo move on - very glad to have him back.