I just checked the Wisconsin Rivals homepage and the headline story says that sources close to Blue say that he will reopen his recruitment and consider other options.
Bo Ryan's head explodes in 5...4...3...2...1...
:P
link
http://wisconsin.rivals.com/
i like the tee shirt
http://community.sportsbubbler.com/blogs/buckingham_u_blogger/default.aspx
Looks like Louisville and Minnesota are options too.
No April Fools this time around!!!!!!
Let the screaming meltdown begin. ;D ;D ;D Just for fits and giggles, is a class of Bowen, Clark, and Blue adequate? ::)
do you think they remember?
Bo cooled on him.
He's got academic problems.
His mother/father/parents are overbearing.
He's got discipline problems.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HA HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (pauses, regains composure...........can't contain himself any longer) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HA HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
For what it's worth, I heard he was going to do this awhile ago, but didn't think anything of it. For those of you that have ever gotten your haircut by Bob over at East/Straz, you know how big of an MU fan he is...
Rumor has it that Vander's mom was dating an assistant coach or someone in the Badger program and he's no longer happy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Who knows the reason, but I like it!
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2009, 08:22:26 PM
Bo cooled on him.
He's got academic problems.
His mother/father/parents are overbearing.
He's got discipline problems.
You forgot one:
The Maymon family.
Yes, they're already blaming them on Badgermaniac.
Quote from: MUunderpants on May 12, 2009, 08:28:55 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HA HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (pauses, regains composure...........can't contain himself any longer) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HA HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
bad, bad karma.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on May 12, 2009, 08:32:25 PM
You forgot one:
The Maymon family.
Yes, they're already blaming them on Badgermaniac.
How could an upstanding young man considered to be UW timber by the estimable Bo Ryan possibly be influenced by the likes of the out of control Maymon clan?
Looks like there was some actual truth to that rumor.
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 12, 2009, 08:34:42 PM
bad, bad karma.
Word. My fear is he goes to UL and becomes the latest thorn in our side from Wisconsin.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 12, 2009, 09:05:12 PM
Word. My fear is he goes to UL and becomes the latest thorn in our side from Wisconsin.
Just point to all of the WI playas that went there and went bust after leaving there: Reece Gaines and Jerry Smith (not yet!).
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on May 12, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
Just point to all of the WI playas that went there and went bust after leaving there: Reece Gaines and Jerry Smith (not yet!).
By and large, NBA players are born not made. I doubt Tom Crean, Bo Ryan or Buzz Williams would have made Reece Gaines a better NBA player.
http://wisconsin.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=945328 (http://wisconsin.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=945328)
May 12, 2009
Blue to explore other options
Jon McNamara
BadgerBlitz.com Publisher
According to sources close to the situation, Vander Blue, a 2010 guard from Madison Memorial, has decided to reopen his recruitment after he initially committed to Wisconsin last April.
The sources indicated Blue, a four-star point guard, made his decision Monday evening. Blue has not yet commented on the situation.
The sources also indicated Blue is looking at two schools, one being Marquette, where former Memorial teammate Jeronne Maymon is set to play next season. Blue and Maymon were key parts of Memorial's state-championship team this past season.
This is not the first time rumors about Blue decommitting from UW have floated around Madison.
"I'm solid with Wisconsin," Blue told BadgerBlitz.com in an article that ran on March 19, 2009. "Those were just rumors. Right now I'm just focused on finishing this season. I don't want to let my teammates down. Our main focus is winning a state championship."
Blue scored 19 points and grabbed 11 rebounds as the Spartans defeated Racine Horlick, 56-41, in the Division I state championship game.
Blue was slated to occupy one of two open scholarships Wisconsin had in its 2010 class. The other verbal commitment UW received was from Evan Anderson, a 6-foot-11, 255-pound center from Eau Claire (Wis.) North.
Messages to Steve Collins, the head coach at Memorial, and to Blue were not immediately returned this evening.
Stay tuned to BadgerBlitz.com for more on this story as it develops
Man I hope we get Vander. Back to Back Mr. Basketballs, I CAN DIG IT
This may be sacrilege for the Wisconsin HS hoops fans here ... but should MU be recruiting Blue? Does MU need Blue?
When the class of 2010 arrives, MU will have a sophomore point guard (Cadougan), a senior shooting guard (Buycks), a junior combo guard (DBO) and a freshman shooting guard (Bowen).
Is MU better off using it's last 2010 scholie on a big or a true point? Where does another shooting guard fit in?
I'm not saying MU shouldn't recuit Blue, just asking the question.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2009, 10:36:46 PM
This may be sacrilege for the Wisconsin HS hoops fans here ... but should MU be recruiting Blue? Does MU need Blue?
When the class of 2010 arrives, MU will have a sophomore point guard (Cadougan), a senior shooting guard (Buycks), a junior combo guard (DBO) and a freshman shooting guard (Bowen).
Is MU better off using it's last 2010 scholie on a big or a true point? Where does another shooting guard fit in?
I'm not saying MU shouldn't recuit Blue, just asking the question.
Buzz can't pass up the talent, and plus Bucks will be graduating and Junior is by no means a shooting guard and from what I have seen Vander is more of a SG. Bowen seems to be versatile enough to play some forward too, so I think Vander can definitely fit in.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2009, 10:36:46 PM
This may be sacrilege for the Wisconsin HS hoops fans here ... but should MU be recruiting Blue? Does MU need Blue?
When the class of 2010 arrives, MU will have a sophomore point guard (Cadougan), a senior shooting guard (Buycks), a junior combo guard (DBO) and a freshman shooting guard (Bowen).
Is MU better off using it's last 2010 scholie on a big or a true point? Where does another shooting guard fit in?
I'm not saying MU shouldn't recuit Blue, just asking the question.
Buycks could play combo PG/SG.
We are losing Hayward, Cube's and Acker that year.
Already got Clark and Bowen, so it's not as if we need the PG right away if either Cad or Buyucks work out (either could be a servicable backup).
I say get another top tier PG after 2010-2011 season when Cad is going to be a junior. Imagine if Blue doesn't start right away, we got him coming off the bench for a year or two and let him work his way into the rotation (a top 40 off bench).
Just thinking, get blue and lomomba--instead of the "flint"stones what would they be Maymon's Senior year?
I guess I don't see anything wrong with recruiting a top 40 player, it's better than picking up a Lott/Blackledge or equivalent talent level player because we need to fill a position.
It's also possible that another scholarship opens up for '10.....never know these days, 13 scholarships, not everyone is going to get minutes.
We'd have to have proven talent and depth at the guard spot for me to turn away a top 50 guard in our backyard.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2009, 10:36:46 PM
This may be sacrilege for the Wisconsin HS hoops fans here ... but should MU be recruiting Blue? Does MU need Blue?
When the class of 2010 arrives, MU will have a sophomore point guard (Cadougan), a senior shooting guard (Buycks), a junior combo guard (DBO) and a freshman shooting guard (Bowen).
Is MU better off using it's last 2010 scholie on a big or a true point? Where does another shooting guard fit in?
I'm not saying MU shouldn't recuit Blue, just asking the question.
Absolutely. You find room for a kid this talented... and Blue is this talented. Buycks can play point. There's room for Vander.
Quote
**** at 12:24am May 13
Hahahahahahaha
**** at 12:25am May 13
thats [edited]
**** at 12:28am May 13
The same source is now reporting that Blue is choosing between two schools... one of which being Marquette.
**** at 12:28am May 13
yeah....he's gonna go to marquette, already found out
**** at 12:30am May 13
Where did you hear that? I thought he was gonna take some time to figure out his other options?
**** at 12:33am May 13
A friend of a friend is real cool with vander blue and he said he's pretty certain he's gonna go to marquette cuz yall have a run and gun offense where here at madison its slow pace n what not....its not official yet but its pretty likely that he'll go to marquette
Posted the link on Facebook a few minutes ago, had a high school classmate from Wisconsin comment on it. This isn't official obviously, but it's an interesting tidbit.
Names edited, and edited for foul language. Make of it what you will.
Also if Vander wants to play in the NBA he's most likely going to have to develop some pg skills unless he grows a few more inches.
Quote from: PXILibero2 on May 13, 2009, 12:37:26 AM
Posted the link on Facebook a few minutes ago, had a high school classmate from Wisconsin comment on it. This isn't official obviously, but it's an interesting tidbit.
Names edited, and edited for foul language. Make of it what you will.
Keep our fingers crossed it is true.
This was from last year. Hopefully he still wants to stay close to home and knows our coach better........
Q: Did you take unofficial visits to any other place besides Wisconsin?
A: I did. But Marquette, I wasn't really sure because they just got a new coach. I don't have any background on him. I don't know how he does things. And with Indiana, I don't know, I just feel comfortable at home so my mom can come straight home from work and go straight to the Kohl Center to watch me play with no confusion. Everything is cool here. I'm staying home. I'm being around my family and that's why I'm going to do this.
;D
Just to provide another link, something a bit different. Let's just see how it all plays out.
http://www.badgerbeat.com/blog/blog/id/450884
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2009, 10:36:46 PM
This may be sacrilege for the Wisconsin HS hoops fans here ... but should MU be recruiting Blue? Does MU need Blue?
The #37 player in the country? From one of your rival's backyard? Who decommitted from that rival?
F*ck yeah!
If he comes here, he will come off the bench for a year behind Buycks. However, he probably is a three year starter after that.
Blue was the most talented player on the floor in the championship game. He's Big East ready to be a Warrior. Gotta get him.
This will pump a little extra into the rivalry if we get him.
I would have to believe Wes's mother and Van Der Blue's mother have talked alot about Wes's experience at MU.
Hell, I'll pick her up and take her to the games myself if we get vander.
That's got to be a violation. ;)
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on May 12, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
Just point to all of the WI playas that went there and went bust after leaving there: Reece Gaines and Jerry Smith (not yet!).
I have a feeling that neither Gaines nor Smith regret choosing Louisville. If I was a scoring guard that can play at that level, they would certainly be on my short list.
Just curious...
IF Blue commits to MU, does that FINALLY make Buzz a great recruiter in some people's eyes? Because if it doesn't, I don't know what will.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2009, 10:36:46 PM
This may be sacrilege for the Wisconsin HS hoops fans here ... but should MU be recruiting Blue? Does MU need Blue?
When the class of 2010 arrives, MU will have a sophomore point guard (Cadougan), a senior shooting guard (Buycks), a junior combo guard (DBO) and a freshman shooting guard (Bowen).
Is MU better off using it's last 2010 scholie on a big or a true point? Where does another shooting guard fit in?
I'm not saying MU shouldn't recuit Blue, just asking the question.
we should absolutely go after him. That is only 5 guards with one of them being a senior and two of them being Freshman. Absolutely does not cause a probelem 7 gueards too many 5-6 is a good number. Also my guess is Bowen ends up more of a 3 over time.
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 08:28:47 AM
Just curious...
IF Blue commits to MU, does that FINALLY make Buzz a great recruiter in some people's eyes? Because if it doesn't, I don't know what will.
Bucky fans will accuse Buzz of being dirty, even though there was nothing official tying Blue to UW.
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 13, 2009, 07:42:26 AM
Hell, I'll pick her up and take her to the games myself if we get vander.
That's got to be a violation. ;)
That's a paddlin'.
(http://jimberkin.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/jasper.jpg)
If Vander Blue commits to MU and Roseboro bolts from MU I will say Buzz is a great recruiter. Anyone hear that Roseboro might be going to prep school?
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on May 13, 2009, 08:36:18 AM
If Vander Blue commits to MU and Roseboro bolts from MU I will say Buzz is a great recruiter. Anyone hear that Roseboro might be going to prep school?
Blue and Roseboro aren't the same class, a Blue commit would not require losing anyone as there is a scholarship open in that class.
Has anyone on this board seen Blue and Bowen play? How do they compare? How are their game's different? Who's better? Scout has Blue rated as a 3star and Bowen a 4 star. But I don't trust the ratings of one service.
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 08:28:47 AM
Just curious...
IF Blue commits to MU, does that FINALLY make Buzz a great recruiter in some people's eyes? Because if it doesn't, I don't know what will.
well he better stock pile talent now becuase we all know that if he makes a final 4 that recruits will run and hide. Buzz wont have the added negatives of having the AL built and joining the BE or having an NBA superstar hurting his recruitng so he may be able to over come this overwhelming negative unlike our last coach who could only sign players like Kinsella, hrsitopherson, Berkowitz, etc. and if you dont beleive this logic just look at geoge MAson!
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 08:28:47 AM
Just curious...
IF Blue commits to MU, does that FINALLY make Buzz a great recruiter in some people's eyes? Because if it doesn't, I don't know what will.
Winning games will most likely convince everybody that Buzz is a great recruiter.
If Buzz just brings in highly rated kids who can't play together and transfer out... well... then he's probably not a great recruiter (ie he can recognize talent, but cannot assemble a team)
Also what's with some people rushing to judgment on Buzz? Can't we actually see how he does for a couple of years before we use words like "great" or "terrible"?
An in-state player with mad talent? Absolutely you get him if you can. Not to mention taking him from your in-state rival's hometown, after he had already committed to that school. There has never been a bigger no-brainer.
I'm no expert, but based on what I have seen, this kid would be a star at a place like MU.
If he ends up here, I will forever assume that Wes Matthews played a significant role in making it happen.
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 08:28:47 AM
Just curious...
IF Blue commits to MU, does that FINALLY make Buzz a great recruiter in some people's eyes? Because if it doesn't, I don't know what will.
There's no finally until the highly ranked players actually get on the court and prove the rankings and hype were correct. Every year, a large portion of the top 100 doesn't pan out, and there's nothing to show that it couldn't happen with MU's players that are coming in.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 13, 2009, 08:40:19 AM
well he better stock pile talent now becuase we all know that if he makes a final 4 that recruits will run and hide. Buzz wont have the added negatives of having the AL built and joining the BE or having an NBA superstar hurting his recruitng so he may be able to over come this overwhelming negative unlike our last coach who could only sign players like Kinsella, hrsitopherson, Berkowitz, etc. and if you dont beleve this logic just look at geoge MAson!
Nor will he have the burden of playing for a legendary coach either. If only in Crean's own mind.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 09:09:28 AM
There's no finally until the highly ranked players actually get on the court and prove the rankings and hype were correct. Every year, a large portion of the top 100 doesn't pan out, and there's nothing to show that it couldn't happen with MU's players that are coming in.
Exactly. A large portion of the top 100 does not pan out. But a much LARGER portion of those outside the top 100 don't pan out. So you bring as many top 100's in as you can, and your hit rate is much higher. That's what a great recruiter does.
Can you imagine if one of the three amigos had not panned out? Crean would have been dead in the water, because he didn't bring in any top 100's outside of Hayward, and he certainly wasn't bringing any top 100's off the bench. His margin for error was razor thin. His backup plans were Lott, Blackledge, Cubillan, Acker, Burke, etc.
Now, had Buzz stopped with Maymon, Williams, and Cadougan, he would have had no room for error, just like Crean. If one didn't pan out, he would have been toast. But the more you bring in, the better your chances. Buzz' backup plans are first team All-American JUCO players (a.k.a. top 100 level talent), not JUCO scrubs; not to mention he's still reeling in top 100 HS commits. That's my definition of a great RECRUITER.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 09:09:28 AM
There's no finally until the highly ranked players actually get on the court and prove the rankings and hype were correct. Every year, a large portion of the top 100 doesn't pan out, and there's nothing to show that it couldn't happen with MU's players that are coming in.
It's possible that some or all of these players won't pan out. This might be attributed to poor coaching/development, misjudgements regarding talent or attitude or just bad luck. Regardless, the fact will remain that Buzz signed kids highly sought after by other top programs. By definition, that makes him a great "recruiter".
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 09:29:39 AM
Buzz' backup plans are first team All-American JUCO players (a.k.a. top 100 level talent), not JUCO scrubs; not to mention he's still reeling in top 100 HS commits. That's my definition of a great RECRUITER.
Disagree. It's not the back up plans that make the recruiter, it's the front line kids. Being able to get talented back ups really only says that you were worried about your frontline kids not hitting. A truly great recruiter doesn't need to worry about that, because they know they've got the highly ranked kids that are going to make it. Look at UNC for example. They didn't have to get back ups for Lawson or Hansbrough or Ellington, because Roy knew right away that there was no way those kids would miss, and he was able to reel them in.
Maybe Buzz knows the same thing with Maymon, Williams and Cadougan, but we won't be able to tell for a couple years.
If you mean a UNC bench full of 4-star recruits as not having back-ups.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2009, 09:38:32 AM
Regardless, the fact will remain that Buzz signed kids highly sought after by other top programs. By definition, that makes him a great "recruiter".
But what if all of these kids come in and are unhappy about the direction of the team or their minutes?
Let's say a coach promises the world to some kids and gets a great recruiting class. If those kids come in and realize the program is not what the coach promised and leave, is that coach still a great "recruiter" because he got them on campus as a frosh. but then they all leave after 1 or 2 years?
Again, I don't understand the rush to say that Buzz is either "great" at something or "terrible" at something.
Isn't it reasonable to say TBD?
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 09:43:14 AM
Disagree. It's not the back up plans that make the recruiter, it's the front line kids. Being able to get talented back ups really only says that you were worried about your frontline kids not hitting. A truly great recruiter doesn't need to worry about that, because they know they've got the highly ranked kids that are going to make it. Look at UNC for example. They didn't have to get back ups for Lawson or Hansbrough or Ellington, because Roy knew right away that there was no way those kids would miss, and he was able to reel them in.
Maybe Buzz knows the same thing with Maymon, Williams and Cadougan, but we won't be able to tell for a couple years.
UNC starts 5-star players and brings 4-stars off the bench. Under Crean, MU started four 4-stars and brought ZERO off the bench. Were there even any 3-stars coming off the bench?
When you're at the point that you're bringing 4-star talent off the bench, you're a great recruiter. Buycks & DJO are 4-star talents, would you agree? In addition to Bowen, Cadougan, Maymon, Williams, and possibly Blue, Buzz would be bringing
at least one 4-star talent off the bench, if not two or three.
That's my definition of great recruiting. Brining top 100 talent off the bench. Buzz already has MU in that position.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 09:09:28 AM
There's no finally until the highly ranked players actually get on the court and prove the rankings and hype were correct. Every year, a large portion of the top 100 doesn't pan out, and there's nothing to show that it couldn't happen with MU's players that are coming in.
I suppose it depends on one's definition of great recruiter.
If being a great recruiter means adding highly sought-after talent that is expected to fill your on-court needs and balance your roster, then Buzz seems to be a great recruiter. At least so far.
If the standard of being a great recruiter means adding players who in 2, 3, 4 years will be high-level performers, then it's obviously too soon to tell. Of course,it may be fair to suggest that being a great coach and developer of talent are equally as important, if not more important, skills if this is your measure of a great recruiter.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2009, 09:38:32 AM
It's possible that some or all of these players won't pan out. This might be attributed to poor coaching/development, misjudgements regarding talent or attitude or just bad luck. Regardless, the fact will remain that Buzz signed kids highly sought after by other top programs. By definition, that makes him a great "recruiter".
+ 50 billion trillion
It makes him a great recruiter period. The fact that he can get kid after kid that all the bigs want. Player evaluation, development etc. are completely different issues. As others have addressed sometimes top 100 player dont turn out to be great players. But the frequency of non-top 100 palyers not turning into great players is exponentially greater. Can anyone please name the last MU 1000 point scorer that was not a top 100 player? As was said Cream sign 4 top 100's and our margin for error was razor thin 1 went down and the floor fell out. We need more than that and better bench players Buzz is adressing it and showing Cream for the sham he was.
Quote from: DLange_MU on May 13, 2009, 09:47:28 AM
If you mean a UNC bench full of 4-star recruits as not having back-ups.
You'll notice that none of those guys were back up plans for the players I mentioned, they may be their back ups, but being a back up plan and a back up player are totally different things.
Look at Lawson. If he didn't work out, they were screwed because they had no scholarships available in 2007 and no other true PG on the roster. The Bobby Frasor experiment had already been tried and didn't work. Williams needed to get it right, and when he got Lawson he knew he had done so, to the point where he didn't bring in another PG until the 2008 class.
Same thing with Ellington. If he didn't work out, that would have given failed shooting guards in back to back classes and four scholarships tied up at one position with no option to get anyone else. But Roy Williams was so convinced that Ellington would work out that he didn't even really look at other shooting guards in that class and he turned out to be exactly right.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 13, 2009, 09:58:41 AM
+ 50 billion trillion
It makes him a great recruiter period. The fact that he can get kid after kid that all the bigs want. Player evaluation, development etc. are completely different issues. As others have addressed sometimes top 100 player dont turn out to be great players. But the frequency of non-top 100 palyers not turning into great players is exponentially greater. Can anyone please name the last MU 1000 point scorer that was not a top 100 player? As was said Cream sign 4 top 100's and our margin for error was razor thin 1 went down and the floor fell out. We need more than that and better bench players Buzz is adressing it and showing Cream for the sham he was.
Fine.
But what if Buzz has sold this kids on something he can't deliver? What if he promised them all starting spots to get them to MU? What if the kids and families have expectations that aren't realistic on what MU can actually do?
I don't think recruiting is just getting them to sign like you guys think. I think it's about getting them to sign for the right reasons, understanding the expectations of the player and the family and building a team.
It's not all about the dotted line. If it was, nobody would ever complain about transfers.
It's about getting the RIGHT kids to sign for the RIGHT reasons. That makes a great recruiter.
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 13, 2009, 10:06:29 AM
But what if Buzz has sold this kids on something he can't deliver? What if he promised them all starting spots to get them to MU? What if the kids and families have expectations that aren't realistic on what MU can actually do?
What if? What if? What if? What evidence or indication is there that he has done any of those things? What a silly argument.
Get some facts, and come and see me.
-- Jim Calhoun
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 09:53:30 AM
UNC starts 5-star players and brings 4-stars off the bench. Under Crean, MU started four 4-stars and brought ZERO off the bench. Were there even any 3-stars coming off the bench?
Several. I think you guys are all forgetting how well thought of some of the recruits were simply because they didn't pan out. Ron Howard made just as many top 100 lists as Lazar Hayward(2). Karon Bradley and Brandon Bell both made top 100 lists. MJax, Kinsella, and Lott were all JUCO All Americans.
Chris Grimm and Joe Chapman were both 4 star players according to Scout. Amo, Burke, Cubillan, Christopherson and Hazel were all 3 star.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on May 13, 2009, 10:13:33 AM
What if? What if? What if? What evidence or indication is there that he has done any of those things? What a silly argument.
Get some facts, and come and see me.
-- Jim Calhoun
Listen, I'm not saying Buzz ISN'T a great recruiter (all signs are that he's on his way). I'm also NOT saying that he is selling something he can't deliver.
I'm just saying that it's too early to declare that he's "Great"! or "Terrible!" yet.
"Recruiting" is not just about getting kids to sign. You have to get the right kids to sign for the right reasons, otherwise you will end up with a bunch of unhappy kids and families and the transfer rate will go through the roof.
Make sense?
FACTS:
Buzz has not recruited an all-Big East player (yet)
Buzz has not recruited an All-American at MU (yet)
Buzz has not recruited a NBA player at MU (yet)
Those are the facts.
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 13, 2009, 10:20:10 AM
FACTS:
Buzz has not recruited an all-Big East player (yet)
Buzz has not recruited an All-American at MU (yet)
Buzz has not recruited a NBA player at MU (yet)
Those are the facts.
Maybe he has. In fact, he probably has. We just don't know yet how they will develop.
Quote from: BrewCity on May 13, 2009, 10:26:49 AM
Maybe he has. In fact, he probably has. We just don't know yet how they will develop.
And thus, I don't think we can say he's a "great" recruiter (yet).
Need these kids to get on campus, work hard, stay for 3/4 years (not come to campus, realize MU/Buzz is not for them and transfer out)
THEN Buzz's recruiting abilities will become clear(er).
It looks promising, but I just think it's too early to tell.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 13, 2009, 01:01:19 AM
Just to provide another link, something a bit different. Let's just see how it all plays out.
http://www.badgerbeat.com/blog/blog/id/450884
I loved this comment at the bottom.....
and if he does choose that school an hour to the east, we'll know he's a "me" first guy. compare the successes of the uw and mu and no doubt can be left about the better team results. mu may allow him more freedom, but so far it hasn't taken any of those guys further in the tournament (only once in the last 10 years has mu advanced further in march - when wade took them to the final four...and completely blown out by kansas)
Quote from: Ready2Fly on May 13, 2009, 08:28:47 AM
Just curious...
IF Blue commits to MU, does that FINALLY make Buzz a great recruiter in some people's eyes? Because if it doesn't, I don't know what will.
Just curious....
who has said Buzz isn't a great recruiter or known for recruiting? Just curious....
2002 why do you and everyone else continue to insinuate that Buzz is guarnateeing starting positions. I have never heard a single recruit of Buzz's say that verbally or in print sans MAymon, and he has gotten 11 of them now. That has been so blown out of proportion it is unreal.
In fact recently i saw an interview with him where they pointedly asked them and he backpedalled big time saying the standard..." he told me i needed to compete and i could compete ofr a strting spot but whether I start or not is up to how well i play and how hard i work" something along those lines give it up.
I am sure if buzz feels highly enough about him that he told him that from what he has seen that if he comes in and busts his ass he could/should start then I have no problem with that at all. I am sure he said the sme thing to Junior just as Crean did to the 3 amigos. if a player is good enough and there is a hole to fill then what is wrong with it.
Additionally, that is completely different than guaranteeing a starting spot to Maymon or the rest of the 11 kids.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 10:17:47 AM
Several. I think you guys are all forgetting how well thought of some of the recruits were simply because they didn't pan out. Ron Howard made just as many top 100 lists as Lazar Hayward(2). Karon Bradley and Brandon Bell both made top 100 lists. MJax, Kinsella, and Lott were all JUCO All Americans.
Chris Grimm and Joe Chapman were both 4 star players according to Scout. Amo, Burke, Cubillan, Christopherson and Hazel were all 3 star.
Shhhh, stop with those facts. There were ZERO players coming off the bench. :P
Anyone here ever hear of Acie Law IV? Just wondering.
Hey...what about that Vander Blue guy? Any room for him on this thread?
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on May 13, 2009, 10:50:11 AM
Anyone here ever hear of Acie Law IV? Just wondering.
You mean the guy that committed to A&M two years before Buzz Williams was even on the Aggie staff? What about him?
I'm going to wait and see how this all plays out. If he ends up choosing MU, he would be the crown jewel of our 2010 class. Go get 'em Buzz!!
Quote from: mosarsour on May 13, 2009, 11:05:15 AM
I'm going to wait and see how this all plays out. If he ends up choosing MU, he would be the crown jewel of our 2010 class. Go get 'em Buzz!!
I guess if you don't count Bowen.
let's do whatever it takes to get this guy.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 13, 2009, 10:46:39 AM
2002 why do you and everyone else continue to insinuate that Buzz is guarnateeing starting positions. I have never heard a single recruit of Buzz's say that verbally or in print sans MAymon, and he has gotten 11 of them now. That has been so blown out of proportion it is unreal.
In fact recently i saw an interview with him where they pointedly asked them and he backpedalled big time saying the standard..." he told me i needed to compete and i could compete ofr a strting spot but whether I start or not is up to how well i play and how hard i work" something along those lines give it up.
I am sure if buzz feels highly enough about him that he told him that from what he has seen that if he comes in and busts his ass he could/should start then I have no problem with that at all. I am sure he said the sme thing to Junior just as Crean did to the 3 amigos. if a player is good enough and there is a hole to fill then what is wrong with it.
Additionally, that is completely different than guaranteeing a starting spot to Maymon or the rest of the 11 kids.
I think there is some confusion here, so let me restate my general idea.
#1 I know Buzz comes in with a reputation as a good recruiter. I believe he has shown good/promising ability at MU so far.
#2 I don't think Buzz promised a bunch of things to the incoming recruits. The point of my previous post was that it's not just about getting signatures on the dotted line. I think a new coach
could go out and sell players and families on a lot of promises in an effort to get them to sign. When these promises aren't fulfilled, the players will be unhappy and probably leave. By your definition, that coach is a great recruiter because he got the players to sign. My definition is that the players have to sign, come to MU and be relatively successful over a period of time.
#3 I do think that Buzz is a good coach, and I'm very optimistic for the future.
#4 I do NOT think we've seen enough to simply label Buzz a "GREAT" recruiter... I think it's ok to say TBD. Can you say "great so far"? Yes. Promising? Yes.
Does this make sense?
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 13, 2009, 10:06:29 AM
Fine.
But what if Buzz has sold this kids on something he can't deliver? What if he promised them all starting spots to get them to MU? What if the kids and families have expectations that aren't realistic on what MU can actually do?
What if he enticed them with cocaine, hookers, no-show jobs, new tractors for their dad's farm and a job in a high-rise for mom?
Good recruiter or bad recruiter?
Quote from: jaygall31 on May 13, 2009, 11:25:50 AM
let's do whatever it takes to get this guy.
Whatever? I assume you mean within the rules. ;)
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 13, 2009, 11:30:05 AM
I think there is some confusion here, so let me restate my general idea.
#1 I know Buzz comes in with a reputation as a good recruiter. I believe he has shown good/promising ability at MU so far.
#2 I don't think Buzz promised a bunch of things to the incoming recruits. The point of my previous post was that it's not just about getting signatures on the dotted line. I think a new coach could go out and sell players and families on a lot of promises in an effort to get them to sign. When these promises aren't fulfilled, the players will be unhappy and probably leave. By your definition, that coach is a great recruiter because he got the players to sign. My definition is that the players have to sign, come to MU and be relatively successful over a period of time.
#3 I do think that Buzz is a good coach, and I'm very optimistic for the future.
#4 I do NOT think we've seen enough to simply label Buzz a "GREAT" recruiter... I think it's ok to say TBD. Can you say "great so far"? Yes. Promising? Yes.
Does this make sense?
I think the problem is that you're using 20/20 hindsight on Crean and making a direct comparison to Buzz based on promise.
For example:
- Brandon Bell was a highly recruited guy we beat Arizona (among others) to get
- Junior Cadougan was a highly recruited guy we beat Michigan, MSU, Syracuse,Arizona, Florida State and Illinois (according to rivals) to get.
You use Bell as an example of what a poor recruiter Crean is, but Cadougan as an example of what a great recruiter Buzz is, even though both both coaches landed highly recruited players over other elite programs.
If THAT is your criteria for who a great recruiter is, then Crean and Buzz were both great recruiters.
Buy you are using a double standard.
Your view of Crean's recruiting is based only how his failed recruits performed over time.
Your view of Buzz's recruiting is solely based on their future promise.
That is two different standards.
For example, if you're honest, you'd admit that you cannot possibly know if Maymon will be any different than Mbakwe or Amoroso. You just can't do it. All three players were highly rated. All three were recruited by top programs. The only difference is that we know how Mbakwe and Amoroso turned out. You simply don't know what will happen with Maymon.
And that's just one example. We can go down the list. Compare Kinsella to Mbao. Cadougan to Bell. Johnson-Odom to Christian. Buycks to Wade. Clark to Merritt. Butler to ODB. Etc. etc. etc.
The only difference in each comparison is hindsight versus promise. In each comparison, both players were promising recruits, in most cases under the radar, and players that MU beat other high-major programs to get. The only difference is that you know what happened with Crean's recruits.
Let's face it--you're not making a single honest comparison here--the only comments you seem capable of making are infused with your anti-Crean bias.
+1 - Best comments I've read on this board in a long while.
We all hope the new recruits work out, but I don't think you can evaluate things until 2-3 years down the road.
Quote from: Marquette84 on May 13, 2009, 11:55:20 AM
I think the problem is that you're using 20/20 hindsight on Crean and making a direct comparison to Buzz based on promise.
For example:
- Brandon Bell was a highly recruited guy we beat Arizona (among others) to get
- Junior Cadougan was a highly recruited guy we beat Michigan, MSU, Syracuse,Arizona, Florida State and Illinois (according to rivals) to get.
You use Bell as an example of what a poor recruiter Crean is, but Cadougan as an example of what a great recruiter Buzz is, even though both both coaches landed highly recruited players over other elite programs.
If THAT is your criteria for who a great recruiter is, then Crean and Buzz were both great recruiters.
Buy you are using a double standard.
Your view of Crean's recruiting is based only how his failed recruits performed over time.
Your view of Buzz's recruiting is solely based on their future promise.
That is two different standards.
For example, if you're honest, you'd admit that you cannot possibly know if Maymon will be any different than Mbakwe or Amoroso. You just can't do it. All three players were highly rated. All three were recruited by top programs. The only difference is that we know how Mbakwe and Amoroso turned out. You simply don't know what will happen with Maymon.
And that's just one example. We can go down the list. Compare Kinsella to Mbao. Cadougan to Bell. Johnson-Odom to Christian. Buycks to Wade. Clark to Merritt. Butler to ODB. Etc. etc. etc.
The only difference in each comparison is hindsight versus promise. In each comparison, both players were promising recruits, in most cases under the radar, and players that MU beat other high-major programs to get. The only difference is that you know what happened with Crean's recruits.
Let's face it--you're not making a single honest comparison here--the only comments you seem capable of making are infused with your anti-Crean bias.
I actually agree with most of what you said... I think you might be directing this post at somebody else.
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 13, 2009, 09:48:54 AM
But what if all of these kids come in and are unhappy about the direction of the team or their minutes?
Let's say a coach promises the world to some kids and gets a great recruiting class. If those kids come in and realize the program is not what the coach promised and leave, is that coach still a great "recruiter" because he got them on campus as a frosh. but then they all leave after 1 or 2 years?
Again, I don't understand the rush to say that Buzz is either "great" at something or "terrible" at something.
Isn't it reasonable to say TBD?
Until someone delivers your eulogy I guess everything is TBD. From now on, let's refrain from any judgements until all the facts are in. I assume you don't vote - how could anyone possibly make an informed judgement without the benefit of hindsight.
All of your what ifs are possible. Let me add a few more. What if Buzz is buying these players? What if he hires someone to write papers to keep players eligible? What if this aw shucks stuff is an act and he turns out to be a phony? Then I will have been wrong about him and I'll admit being wrong. Won't be the first time or the last.
I really don't think all this talk of great/tbd recruiter is going anywhere.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2009, 12:08:15 PM
Until someone delivers your eulogy I guess everything is TBD. From now on, let's refrain from any judgements until all the facts are in. I assume you don't vote - how could anyone possibly make an informed judgement without the benefit of hindsight.
All of your what ifs are possible. Let me add a few more. What if Buzz is buying these players? What if he hires someone to write papers to keep players eligible? What if this aw shucks stuff is an act and he turns out to be a phony? Then I will have been wrong about him and I'll admit being wrong. Won't be the first time or the last.
You know what, you're right.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree...
I don't think there is anything wrong with waiting a couple of years before I fall in love with a coach. I've always been this way with coaches/teams. I did the same thing for TC. I've done the same for pro coaches. It's just the way I look at it. I don't think you can know if a guy is "terrible" or "great" after 1 year. Takes time to evaluate.
If Buzz had lost more games this year and didn't have a highly ranked class, I would NOT being saying "he's terrible", I'd be saying "TBD", let's see what the guy can do for a couple of years.
You've made it clear that you don't necessary follow this type of thinking, so we can just agree to disagree.
No problem. It's all good.
Brandon Bell had personal problems... he was still a good player... and a pretty good person.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2009, 12:08:15 PM
Until someone delivers your eulogy I guess everything is TBD. From now on, let's refrain from any judgements until all the facts are in. I assume you don't vote - how could anyone possibly make an informed judgement without the benefit of hindsight.
All of your what ifs are possible. Let me add a few more. What if Buzz is buying these players? What if he hires someone to write papers to keep players eligible? What if this aw shucks stuff is an act and he turns out to be a phony? Then I will have been wrong about him and I'll admit being wrong. Won't be the first time or the last.
That's one way of looking at it. Some people pass judgment day one, others like to kick the tires around, take her for a spin. Did you marry the first girl you kissed? ;)
I don't see a problem with either viewpoint. But I do see one side attacking others that aren't ready to proclaim the Messiah is here. That by no way means we don't support Buzz, doesn't mean we want him to fail, nothing of the kind. We're just not ready to marry him yet. ;) We'd like a few years of success.
Doesn't make us wrong, doesn't make you wrong. I think some of us just get tired of the label of anti-Buzz or whatever because we haven't put all the chips in. You're there, you've made your decision. Good for you. Others haven't and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I said months ago I thought Buzz was promising the world and still believe that. There is a reason why "a great recruiter" never had a real HC job in the past. Buzz is doing whatever it takes and it might be making promises that hard to deliver on. I believe that we will have a revolving door during Buzz's time and graduation rate or kids lasting 2 or 4 years will be much lower than TC's time. Also believe we will have exciting basketball on the court and great gossip online.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on May 13, 2009, 12:54:48 PM
I said months ago I thought Buzz was promising the world and still believe that. There is a reason why "a great recruiter" never had a real HC job in the past. Buzz is doing whatever it takes and it might be making promises that hard to deliver on. I believe that we will have a revolving door during Buzz's time and graduation rate or kids lasting 2 or 4 years will be much lower than TC's time. Also believe we will have exciting basketball on the court and great gossip online.
I am definitely in the group that is excited with what I have seen, but have not made up my mind with regards to Buzz. However, I think this statement is pretty crazy. He started his first year as a head coach (UNO) at the age of 33.
Quote from: Marquette84 on May 13, 2009, 11:55:20 AM
I think the problem is that you're using 20/20 hindsight on Crean and making a direct comparison to Buzz based on promise.
For example:
- Brandon Bell was a highly recruited guy we beat Arizona (among others) to get
- Junior Cadougan was a highly recruited guy we beat Michigan, MSU, Syracuse,Arizona, Florida State and Illinois (according to rivals) to get.
You use Bell as an example of what a poor recruiter Crean is, but Cadougan as an example of what a great recruiter Buzz is, even though both both coaches landed highly recruited players over other elite programs.
If THAT is your criteria for who a great recruiter is, then Crean and Buzz were both great recruiters.
Buy you are using a double standard.
Your view of Crean's recruiting is based only how his failed recruits performed over time.
Your view of Buzz's recruiting is solely based on their future promise.
That is two different standards.
For example, if you're honest, you'd admit that you cannot possibly know if Maymon will be any different than Mbakwe or Amoroso. You just can't do it. All three players were highly rated. All three were recruited by top programs. The only difference is that we know how Mbakwe and Amoroso turned out. You simply don't know what will happen with Maymon.
And that's just one example. We can go down the list. Compare Kinsella to Mbao. Cadougan to Bell. Johnson-Odom to Christian. Buycks to Wade. Clark to Merritt. Butler to ODB. Etc. etc. etc.
The only difference in each comparison is hindsight versus promise. In each comparison, both players were promising recruits, in most cases under the radar, and players that MU beat other high-major programs to get. The only difference is that you know what happened with Crean's recruits.
Let's face it--you're not making a single honest comparison here--the only comments you seem capable of making are infused with your anti-Crean bias.
TWo truly terible examples 84.
First of all Brandon Bell was never offered a scholarship by Arizona, he was significantly more lightly recruited than Junior. Junior is a consensus top 75 recruit, top 50 and top 25 in some lists. brandon Bell was never on a top 100 list of any kind that I recall, maybe he made one. he was generally a top 10 rated recruit out of Michgan a decent player but While Junior is rated a top 10 PG nationally Bell was atop 10 player from Michigan. Junior was named MVP of multiple AAu tourneys and camps and led his teeam to some pretty exclusive titeles...bell none of that. Worlds apart.
Smae goes for Amoroso he was a 3 star recruit, jerrone a 4. Jerronne was a two time State player of the year playing for a two time state finalist. Jerrone was the center of many recruitng articles and in the middle of a feverish recruiting battle of many top programs and did glowingly at many of the top competitons....Amo not so much. Jerrone again is a consensus top 75 recruit higher on some lists, Amoroso was never a top 100 kid.
MAybe you are comparing them becasue they play the same position?...apart from that I see absolutely no similarities.
All ratings on incoming classes is purely subjective. So, that being the case, you have to evaluate the talent level you have coming in based on a balanced review of all the ratings players have. And, in the case here, you have to compare apples to apples.
If comparing Crean's classes to Buzz', you have to do so based on incoming rankings (4 stars, 3 stars, etc...). So far, based on who Buzz has been able to bring in, he's done a phenominal job, especially givien his short coaching resume.
Now, we can't truly rank the results/players as college ballers for a couple years. That's obvious. But, based on where all the "experts" have h.s. players ranked, Buzz has been 'great' so far.
In two/three years, we'll all be able to find out how well he does coaching these guys and making them improve their game.
With Crean you usually knew if he got a 4 star they would be good to great. We have to see if the same holds true with Buzz now or if his players and ultimately team underachieves. The only constant is the recruiting evaluators the variable is Buzz & Crean.
Bell was rated #57 by Bob Gibbons in his final class of 2003 ranking.
At the time he committed to MU in 2002, he was ranked in the top 100 by Gibbons, Rivals and what was then TheInsidersHoops, now Scout.com. Prior to the commitment he'd been ranked by either HoopScoop or HoopMasters, I can't remember which. He didn't have the senior season everyone thought he would have, so all those services dropped him.
...I would love to get some information on Vander Blue in this topic that was made for Vander Blue.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 13, 2009, 01:43:03 PM
...I would love to get some information on Vander Blue in this topic that was made for Vander Blue.
+1.
I think there are at least 3-4 threads that are currently being commented on right now that are about Buzz and Crean. I know that the one about the replacement for Dale Layer has been hijacked into Crean vs. Buzz thread. I really wish we could just have a place for all Buzz vs. Crean discussions to go and recruiting threads could be left alone.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 13, 2009, 01:43:03 PM
...I would love to get some information on Vander Blue in this topic that was made for Vander Blue.
There isn't any information. This whole thing is based off a facebook status he put up yesterday. Since then he's been out of touch. He's not returning calls or texts, his mom isn't returning calls, his coaches aren't returning calls, even his teammates aren't saying anything. The coaching staff at UW hasn't even heard from him, and there's nothing official saying he's opening it up.
Anything beyond that is just speculation, because the kid and those close to him have gone in to lockdown mode.
I don't know what your threshold is for official however rivals.com and sportsbubbler.com have put it as a news headline on their website based on "inside source" information.
It'd be pretty reckless for both of them to put that on their websites off of a facebook mention.
I have been guilty of jumping to conclusions here. I have yet to see a quote from Blue, or anyone close to him. Everything is 'unnamed sources' and a facebook entry. While it has been wildly entertaining and amusing, we need to all chill until something from a reliable, attributable source comes out. Until then, it is nothing but an internet circle jerk.
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 13, 2009, 01:51:20 PM
I don't know what your threshold is for official however rivals.com and sportsbubbler.com have put it as a news headline on their website based on "inside source" information.
It'd be pretty reckless for both of them to put that on their websites off of a facebook mention.
While it may be reckless for sites to publish it claiming "inside sources" that kind of thing happens all the time. Just last week there were reports that Louisville recruit Josh Langord had opened up his recruitment. When reached, Langford said it wasn't true, and the reporter that wrote story had turned his quote of "no, I'm staying committed" into "I still like Louisville, but I've decided to open it back up and listen to other schools also".
So really, nothing is official until the kid says it is and confirms it more than once.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 01:48:35 PM
There isn't any information. This whole thing is based off a facebook status he put up yesterday. Since then he's been out of touch. He's not returning calls or texts, his mom isn't returning calls, his coaches aren't returning calls, even his teammates aren't saying anything. The coaching staff at UW hasn't even heard from him, and there's nothing official saying he's opening it up.
Anything beyond that is just speculation, because the kid and those close to him have gone in to lockdown mode.
in other words it's true ....if it were not true he would be responding via the media like he did last time. to know the firestorm is out their and to turn off you cell phone and respond in no way...well the silence is deafening as they say.
sort of like how Crean operated all the rumors yet nothing, the only time he responded to the rumors was each summer after a freshly renegotiated contract. and then par for the course last spring responded in no way to the rumors even after his team had heard about it. In no way would I compare Vander to our classless ass of a former coach just saying the situations are the same but in no way would I say the men are the same. buzz recruits character.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2009, 01:48:35 PM
There isn't any information. This whole thing is based off a facebook status he put up yesterday. Since then he's been out of touch. He's not returning calls or texts, his mom isn't returning calls, his coaches aren't returning calls, even his teammates aren't saying anything. The coaching staff at UW hasn't even heard from him, and there's nothing official saying he's opening it up.
Anything beyond that is just speculation, because the kid and those close to him have gone in to lockdown mode.
Absolutely nothing has come out of the Vander Blue camp and yet that speaks volumes in and of itself.
Quote from: tower912 on May 13, 2009, 01:56:56 PM
I have been guilty of jumping to conclusions here. I have yet to see a quote from Blue, or anyone close to him. Everything is 'unnamed sources' and a facebook entry. While it has been wildly entertaining and amusing, we need to all chill until something from a reliable, attributable source comes out. Until then, it is nothing but an internet circle jerk.
Amid all the pointless rhetoric proclaiming Buzz the NCAA's newest recruiting messiah and the subsequent arguments between people with common sense (ie. those who choose to take the WAIT AND SEE approach when dubbing a coach / recruiter "great") and the anti-Crean folk who merely needed the committment of a few big (albeit unproven) names to grant a coach Diety-status...THIS POST, referencing the rumors and arguments as being nothing more than an internet circle jerk, was the one that made my wasted time worth while...thanks for the chuckle, Tower! ;D
Hay is absolutely right on both accounts. First, were it not true, loud denials would have already surfaced. Secondly, Crean is a useless ass.
I just put this page together, does anyone have any other info to fill it out?
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball_recruits/vander_blue
Make sure that the phrase "internet circle jerk" is in there somewhere.
Quote from: mufanatic on May 13, 2009, 02:08:23 PM
Absolutely nothing has come out of the Vander Blue camp and yet that speaks volumes in and of itself.
him not denying it speaks volumes or him not confirming it speaks volumes?
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on May 13, 2009, 01:24:05 PM
All ratings on incoming classes is purely subjective. So, that being the case, you have to evaluate the talent level you have coming in based on a balanced review of all the ratings players have. And, in the case here, you have to compare apples to apples.
If comparing Crean's classes to Buzz', you have to do so based on incoming rankings (4 stars, 3 stars, etc...). So far, based on who Buzz has been able to bring in, he's done a phenominal job, especially givien his short coaching resume.
Now, we can't truly rank the results/players as college ballers for a couple years. That's obvious. But, based on where all the "experts" have h.s. players ranked, Buzz has been 'great' so far.
In two/three years, we'll all be able to find out how well he does coaching these guys and making them improve their game.
Not only that, but each year is different. There may be more 4 stars available one year then the next year. There may be less positions to fill at some of the elite schools or in your general recruiting battles (Big Ten schools, Big East schools, etc). It's almost impossible to compare one year of recruits to the next year due to all the variables.
Quote from: mufanatic on May 13, 2009, 02:08:23 PM
Absolutely nothing has come out of the Vander Blue camp and yet that speaks volumes in and of itself.
While it might, remember that it is Wednesday. He met with Badger coaches on Monday. Reports started surfacing yesterday. Meanwhile he is in school. I don't know what "camp" he might actually have at this point.
He very well could have decided not to debunk any rumors because he was studying for a test last night. Who knows?
Wonder if it's common for his camp to turn off their cell phones?
That's a honest question, I don't know.
Are we talking about Kool Aid Perry or Worldwide Wes? I get them confused.
Well I'm just glad I only have the Vander Blue recruiting to worry about now that the whole Miss California thing has been resolved.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 13, 2009, 11:35:16 AM
What if he enticed them with cocaine, hookers, no-show jobs, new tractors for their dad's farm and a job in a high-rise for mom?
Good recruiter or bad recruiter?
I think that is UNLV with Tark
And the winner of the "What Will Bo's Excuse Be Contest" goes to (drum roll) ,,,,
Academics!
Vander Blue met with representatives from his high school and the University of Wisconsin Monday night to discuss his academic future and that led to his vague declaration on a Facebook page that he is looking at other schools to play college basketball.
Blue, a junior guard for Madison Memorial who orally committed to play for the Badgers last summer, has struggled in the classroom, according to sources close to Blue and the UW men's basketball team.
http://www.badgerbeat.com/news/article/id/451052
Pretty sh*tty for the Badger folk to be leaking some of the stuff in this article (I.e. Maymon is "confusing" Blue ... Blue "wasn't thrilled to hear about all the work he needed to do") but hell hath no fury, I guess.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on May 13, 2009, 03:54:17 PM
While it might, remember that it is Wednesday. He met with Badger coaches on Monday. Reports started surfacing yesterday. Meanwhile he is in school. I don't know what "camp" he might actually have at this point.
He very well could have decided not to debunk any rumors because he was studying for a test last night. Who knows?
This story was breaking yesterday morning. There have been rumblings about this for quite some time and while he did re-state his commitment to the Rodents before, where there is smoke there is fire.
And by camp I mean Vander Blue, his family and his coach at Memorial. All are silent and non are returning phone calls.
It is also interesting to note that the Badgernation posters who have an in to what is going on in that program are not denying anything or saying this is a rumor but instead are circling the wagons saying that one recruit does not make a program.
Real classy manner the Badgers are handling this all. Leaking the kid has academic issues and isn't allegedly willing to put the work in.
Vander, you might want to talk to Jeronne about how to deal with a fanbase that has no restraint in trashing a kid's academic history the moment he doesn't show interest or changes his level of interest in attending their institution.
Yeah, the way the adults handling this on the badger side, i.e. Bo and his minions, is getting close to the edge.....putting into quotes about how Vander got pouty or whatever. That's not usual unless a schism has occurred, imo.
"It was a normal game plan you go through with everybody," the source added. "But you go into more detail with those you are concerned about."
The source said everyone at the meeting spoke confidently about Blue's potential as a student. "There was no brow-beating. It was, 'All right, this is where we're at. We can't control the past but we can control the present and the future,'" the source added.
But Blue wasn't thrilled to hear about all the work he needed to do to become academically eligible to play at Wisconsin. "He kind of melted into the table," said the source. "He got the sulky, head-down, won't-make-eye-contact look."
:o
If Blue was going to stay at Wisconsin, 98% of the details of that meeting don't get leaked in that manner. Or if they are, they are spun to make it sound like that the UW/Memorial staffs have everything under control and such a meeting was just a mere well-being check on Blue, he's on track, got a little more work to do, etc.
Considering how that source went out of the way to make comments on Blue's demeanor, there's some hard feelings at hand here. If you had a meeting with your boss that didn't go smoothly and he leaked how you reacted to your coworkers, etc, wouldn't you want to have nothing do do with that person afterwards? I sure wouldn't.
He's good as gone from UW IMO.
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 13, 2009, 04:56:14 PM
"He kind of melted into the table," said the source. "He got the sulky, head-down, won't-make-eye-contact look."
This sounds an awful lot like how a guy looks just before he breaks up with his girlfriend. Here's hoping Vander has the class to give UW the old, "it's not you...it's me"...even if UW is playing the scorned girlfriend role.
I was going to post pretty much the same thing. If they didn't think it was a done deal he is gone, the local beat writer would not be putting that out there. Especially the demeanor stuff.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on May 13, 2009, 05:00:57 PM
If Blue was going to stay at Wisconsin, 98% of the details of that meeting don't get leaked in that manner. Or if they are, they are spun to make it sound like that the UW/Memorial staffs have everything under control and such a meeting was just a mere well-being check on Blue, he's on track, got a little more work to do, etc.
Considering how that source went out of the way to make comments on Blue's demeanor, there's some hard feelings at hand here. If you had a meeting with your boss that didn't go smoothly and he leaked how you reacted to your coworkers, etc, wouldn't you want to have nothing do do with that person afterwards? I sure wouldn't.
He's good as gone from UW IMO.
Considering his academic situation, are we certain he'd be able to qualify at MU? If there is any truth to the rumors, it sounds like he has no interest in putting forth the effort necessary to get his grades up...how different are our standards to UW's? Obviously we wouldn't pass up on a stud, non-academic qualifier (accepting Wade turned out to be a pretty good decision), but would Vander be WILLING to come to a school where he couldn't play the first year?
Man...the Badger kids sure sound insecure over Blue even though nothing is for sure, yet.
I hope Vander knows that Badger fans are bitchin' and talkin' crap about him and he decides to come to Marquette to reunite with Jeronne so that the two of them can shut them tfu at least once a year.
Quote from: MU_Iceman on May 13, 2009, 05:07:10 PM
Considering his academic situation, are we certain he'd be able to qualify at MU? If there is any truth to the rumors, it sounds like he has no interest in putting forth the effort necessary to get his grades up...how different are our standards to UW's? Obviously we wouldn't pass up on a stud, non-academic qualifier (accepting Wade turned out to be a pretty good decision), but would Vander be WILLING to come to a school where he couldn't play the first year?
You're assuming that everything Bo's minions are leaking about his academics and demeanor/effort are accurate.
Ask yourself a couple questions:
1. Would a 17-year-old really pout when told he needs to work on his grades to get into the school he really wants to attend? Does that sound like a realisitic response? Wouldn't the kid at least pay lip service to the idea, especially in front of the guy he wants to be his college head coach? I'd suggest that IF Blue really reacted that way, he didn't care what kind of impression he made on Bo. And if he doesn't care, it's because he's already decided that he won't play for Bo.
2. Given some of the kids who havegone through the UW athletic system over the years, does it seem just a little odd that more than a year before Blue would even step on campus as a student they university feels this is a dire academic situation? Does that make sense? Meet with him to make sure he'll qualify? Absolutely. Declare that he's on a certain path to junior college? C'mon. Doesn't pass the smell test.
I'm not saying blue does or doesn't have academic issues and will or won't have trouble qualifying. Beats me. But for them to make a public showing of this during the kids junior year tells me they're less concerned about the kid's grades than they are with saving face.
*IF* Blue is having academic issues, that troubles me. When Maymon committed, there was a lot of talk about how he was going to have to bust his butt in the classroom to be eligible. *IF* Blue is withdrawing his verbal to UW in order to follow Maymon to MU, I'd like to think he would have seen Maymon busting his butt all this last year and said, "hey, I'm gonna do the same thing so I don't have any problems at all ever."
""He needs to, for lack of a better term, pick up the pace or there will be a 'junior' in front of his next college," said a source close to the UW."
Are you serious?
My bad, amending my previous statement...IF he has academic problems, how do our standards compare to UW's? And IF his grades and test scores are a concern, do you think he would be willing to attend a school as a redshirt, non-qualifer?
Hopefully this is just a bunch of lip service from a bitter UW staff - hell, it helps our chances if Bucky Nation bashes him - because I love the idea of snagging ANOTHER highly regarded player on the national level (as of today) from Madison's front yard...
Quote from: MU_Iceman on May 13, 2009, 05:07:10 PM
Considering his academic situation, are we certain he'd be able to qualify at MU? If there is any truth to the rumors, it sounds like he has no interest in putting forth the effort necessary to get his grades up...how different are our standards to UW's? Obviously we wouldn't pass up on a stud, non-academic qualifier (accepting Wade turned out to be a pretty good decision), but would Vander be WILLING to come to a school where he couldn't play the first year?
As much as the UW people want to brag about their academic standards being SO much higher than the rest, they're full of crap.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb1afe0c529230b/Quick_Reference_Sheet_for_IE_Standards-5-2-08.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
Page 2 of this link has the sliding scale the NCAA uses to determine minimum qualfication standards. Besides meeting the core course requirement (16), you have to have the proper ACT/SAT score and GPA combination. Most major D-1 programs require a 2.5 GPA and an ACT composite (sum of all 4 sections) of 68 on this sliding scale (or in other words, a 17 on your ACT). I've heard thru various sources over the years that UW and MU have the EXACT same standard for basketball players, a 2.5 GPA and a 17 ACT.
This scale is the bare minimum requirements. Some institutions, like Northwestern, require a high core GPA AND a higher ACT score. I know this from experience; a high school classmate of mine, who ended up playing football at Purdue before going on for a couple of NFL training
camp, got a 17 on his first attempt of the ACT. However, since he had a scholarship offer from Northwestern he wanted to take advantage of, he paid off a classmate to retake the test for him, got a 22, and accepted to NU (they required a 22). Obviously, he was red-flagged by the NCAA Clearinghouse and ended up at a JuCo for his first 2 years of college.
Also, UW has the luxury of burying their student-athletes in easier programs. They have plenty of majors like Agricultural Journalism, PhysEd, Sports Management, etc. to bury them in. The only comparables I can think of MU on that scale would be Comm. Studies and Social Welfare & Justice. Even with those 2 majors, there's still a considerable amount of work students in those majors must put in, as they must do 36 credits as part of MU's Core of Common Studies of courses EVERY UNDERGRADUATE must take. As I've said before, although most of the men's basketball players at MU end up in Comm. Studies, if you want to do something different (ie. Chris Grimm=Education, David Diggs=Electrical Engineering, Dominic James=PR/Spanish, Wesley Matthews=Advertising, Jamil Lott=psychology/sociology), you have the flexibility to do that. Rarely do I see a UW student-athlete in football or basketball outside of one of those three majors.
In the end, I really do not believe that MU and UW's admission standards for athletes are not that much different. The difference is in how the institutions handle them once they get in the door, and I think MU does a superior job in that than UW does.
Being from Chicago I have no idea, but what kind of school is James Madison Memorial High School (public/Private...good rep/bad rep)?
Quote from: MU Chi_IL on May 13, 2009, 05:45:12 PM
Being from Chicago I have no idea, but what kind of school is James Madison Memorial High School (public/Private...good rep/bad rep)?
From the Madison Memorial website...coming from a HS that was well-known for it's college prep program growing up in the Chicago area, it sounds very comparable to the environment I was in.
Academic Programming
Achievement Scores
Recently, the average verbal SAT score was 622. The average writing sample SAT score was 618. The average math SAT score was 639.
The average ACT score was 25.2.In 2007-08 Memorial had 26 semifinalists, 23 finalists, and 16 commended finalists for the National Merit Scholarship competition. Five students also qualified for the US Department of Education Presidential Scholar Honors. Memorial also had students receive Nation Achievement and National Hispanic Recognition awards. Approximately 91% of each graduating class attends two- or four-year colleges.
Advanced Placement Program
There has been tremendous growth in our AP program with about 700 students now taking Advanced Placement courses each year. Most recently, 366 students took 692 AP exams with 87% scoring a 3 or above. (A score of 3 or above usually earns college credit.) AP courses cover English, chemistry, physics, biology, economics, psychology, history, computer science, math, and world languages.
As a point of comparison, Whitefish Bay averages somewhere around that as well. I went to Memorial's rival high school, West. I can tell you neither place is a joke. There are kids going to Ivies every year from both schools.
wow i simply do not know how to respond to that article. I tell you what though if that was my kid and the details of a meeting of that nature was released to the public i might just have a lwayer involved. Everyone at the meeting was detailed. As far as i can figure a meeting like that discussing sensitive issues like grades should not be taken public. I dont know but similar to HIPPA rules i would think there would be something along that for grades and records and such of a minor. if it was one of the school employees that should be a termination type offense. If it was a UW emplyee i would think they could be sued, either way i cannot see how after a UW person blbs like that to the newspapre Vander would ever want anything to do with that school. Looks very bad on them and for future recruits as well.
This post should be on the Badger board and the message board after the article! If the Badgers have the same standard as MU's, then someone needs to point that out!
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on May 13, 2009, 05:43:55 PM
As much as the UW people want to brag about their academic standards being SO much higher than the rest, they're full of crap.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb1afe0c529230b/Quick_Reference_Sheet_for_IE_Standards-5-2-08.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
Page 2 of this link has the sliding scale the NCAA uses to determine minimum qualfication standards. Besides meeting the core course requirement (16), you have to have the proper ACT/SAT score and GPA combination. Most major D-1 programs require a 2.5 GPA and an ACT composite (sum of all 4 sections) of 68 on this sliding scale (or in other words, a 17 on your ACT). I've heard thru various sources over the years that UW and MU have the EXACT same standard for basketball players, a 2.5 GPA and a 17 ACT.
This scale is the bare minimum requirements. Some institutions, like Northwestern, require a high core GPA AND a higher ACT score. I know this from experience; a high school classmate of mine, who ended up playing football at Purdue before going on for a couple of NFL training
camp, got a 17 on his first attempt of the ACT. However, since he had a scholarship offer from Northwestern he wanted to take advantage of, he paid off a classmate to retake the test for him, got a 22, and accepted to NU (they required a 22). Obviously, he was red-flagged by the NCAA Clearinghouse and ended up at a JuCo for his first 2 years of college.
Also, UW has the luxury of burying their student-athletes in easier programs. They have plenty of majors like Agricultural Journalism, PhysEd, Sports Management, etc. to bury them in. The only comparables I can think of MU on that scale would be Comm. Studies and Social Welfare & Justice. Even with those 2 majors, there's still a considerable amount of work students in those majors must put in, as they must do 36 credits as part of MU's Core of Common Studies of courses EVERY UNDERGRADUATE must take. As I've said before, although most of the men's basketball players at MU end up in Comm. Studies, if you want to do something different (ie. Chris Grimm=Education, David Diggs=Electrical Engineering, Dominic James=PR/Spanish, Wesley Matthews=Advertising, Jamil Lott=psychology/sociology), you have the flexibility to do that. Rarely do I see a UW student-athlete in football or basketball outside of one of those three majors.
In the end, I really do not believe that MU and UW's admission standards for athletes are not that much different. The difference is in how the institutions handle them once they get in the door, and I think MU does a superior job in that than UW does.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on May 13, 2009, 05:21:56 PM
""He needs to, for lack of a better term, pick up the pace or there will be a 'junior' in front of his next college," said a source close to the UW."
Are you serious?
The flip side of all this is that if Blue comes to MU on the heels of Maymon, most of the state will start to say things like "these kids couldn't get into UW-Madison so they went to MU....what does that say about MU".
I can hear it now from UW-Madison fans. I'm glad I don't live in the state because that would wear thin awfully quick. I don't believe those comments would be accurate, but we all know they would be out there in the ether.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on May 13, 2009, 05:43:55 PM
As I've said before, although most of the men's basketball players at MU end up in Comm. Studies, if you want to do something different (ie. Chris Grimm=Education, David Diggs=Electrical Engineering, Dominic James=PR/Spanish, Wesley Matthews=Advertising, Jamil Lott=psychology/sociology), you have the flexibility to do that.
I never did understand how David Diggs managed to be successful in an engineering program concurrent with playing basketball, that just blew me away. His work ethic must've been through the roof.
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 13, 2009, 04:56:14 PM
But Blue wasn't thrilled to hear about all the work he needed to do to become academically eligible to play at Wisconsin. "He kind of melted into the table," said the source. "He got the sulky, head-down, won't-make-eye-contact look."
This is supposed to be an idication of a kid who doesn't want to work on his academics? How about a kid who might be a bit embarassed that he needs extra work on his academics? I didn't realize college sports beat writers were qualified to make judgements regarding the psychology of high school students.
All of the Madison schools are great schools, and some of the best in the state... they put MPS to shame... but what doesn't ;D
As for this, I just had a hallway 'discussion' with a coworker (I live and work in the Madison area)... and I had been giving him a little crap the last day or so, and so he brings up that its an academic issue, not a change of heart. I told him, "really? with all those football players who can barely read, they aren't going to let Blue come play?"
no response.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 13, 2009, 11:38:18 PM
The flip side of all this is that if Blue comes to MU on the heels of Maymon, most of the state will start to say things like "these kids couldn't get into UW-Madison so they went to MU....what does that say about MU".
I can hear it now from UW-Madison fans. I'm glad I don't live in the state because that would wear thin awfully quick. I don't believe those comments would be accurate, but we all know they would be out there in the ether.
If Wisconsin wants to become Northwestern "Northwest" (for lack of a better term), fine by me. If their academic standards/rigors are going to be so grueling where they will bypass kids who fit NCAA qualifications and go on to graduate from respected institutions (like Marquette), then I'm all for it.
Last I checked, Northwestern is still trying to pop their NCAA Tournament virginity. If Wisconsin wants to go that route and start saying things about MU, won't bother me one bit. I'd rather be making the tournament and competing at a high level rather than being worried about having some guy in Fond du Lac all riled up because Vander Blue got admitted at Marquette.
Quote from: BrewCity on May 13, 2009, 03:15:21 PM
Make sure that the phrase "internet circle jerk" is in there somewhere.
I prefer an interactive gang bang.
http://www.theinteractivegangbang.com/ (http://www.theinteractivegangbang.com/)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 13, 2009, 11:38:18 PM
The flip side of all this is that if Blue comes to MU on the heels of Maymon, most of the state will start to say things like "these kids couldn't get into UW-Madison so they went to MU....what does that say about MU".
I can hear it now from UW-Madison fans. I'm glad I don't live in the state because that would wear thin awfully quick. I don't believe those comments would be accurate, but we all know they would be out there in the ether.
ooopps. forgot to add my text to the above which is..... now we're supposed to worry about what UW fans will say about MU's academic standards?
Puhleeze!
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on May 13, 2009, 05:54:52 PM
From the Madison Memorial website...coming from a HS that was well-known for it's college prep program growing up in the Chicago area, it sounds very comparable to the environment I was in.
Academic Programming
Achievement Scores
Recently, the average verbal SAT score was 622. The average writing sample SAT score was 618. The average math SAT score was 639. The average ACT score was 25.2.
In 2007-08 Memorial had 26 semifinalists, 23 finalists, and 16 commended finalists for the National Merit Scholarship competition. Five students also qualified for the US Department of Education Presidential Scholar Honors. Memorial also had students receive Nation Achievement and National Hispanic Recognition awards. Approximately 91% of each graduating class attends two- or four-year colleges.
Advanced Placement Program
There has been tremendous growth in our AP program with about 700 students now taking Advanced Placement courses each year. Most recently, 366 students took 692 AP exams with 87% scoring a 3 or above. (A score of 3 or above usually earns college credit.) AP courses cover English, chemistry, physics, biology, economics, psychology, history, computer science, math, and world languages.
All of the Madison public high schools are a mix of extremes. On the one hand, you have a lot of kids whose parents work for the UW or in state government...on the other hand, there are parts of the city that are pretty poor and have the same urban problems as a lot of cities do.
Madison is a good school and bo is (imo) a good coach. But if Vander comes to MU on the heels of Maymon they can say all they want about our academic standards and make all the excuses they want. They can recruit more Stiemsmas and cheer for bucky football and it wont bother me at all. Because BUZZ plucked two really good ones right from under Bo's nose. That alone is sweet. And if the two of them pan out, the proof will be in the pudding once a year when we work the badgers at the BC and in madtown.
and frankly, if Mr. Blue decides to go anywhere else besides uw, that is also fine by me. But come on BUZZ, REEL HIM IN!!!!!!
Poor Bo. If this blows up in his face, him and UW may be forced to go more than 300 miles to try and recruit someone.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2009, 08:03:20 AM
All of the Madison schools are great schools, and some of the best in the state... they put MPS to shame... but what doesn't ;D
As for this, I just had a hallway 'discussion' with a coworker (I live and work in the Madison area)... and I had been giving him a little crap the last day or so, and so he brings up that its an academic issue, not a change of heart. I told him, "really? with all those football players who can barely read, they aren't going to let Blue come play?"
no response.
You didn't enjoy listening to Ron Dayne's speeches?
updated with appropriate font color
Quote from: muarmy81 on May 14, 2009, 09:48:30 AM
You didn't enjoy listening to Ron Dayne's speeches?
not from here, didn't go to school here... I'm a transplant.
Blue can't sign anywhere until November, right?
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 14, 2009, 10:54:25 AM
Blue can't sign anywhere until November, right?
Correct.
I seem to recall that some opponents viewed McGuire's recruits as "thugs." Who cares what Wisconsin fans say if we keep beating them on the court. The fact is the top players are going to prefer Marquette's style of play and their prospects for the NBA playing in Milwaukee. Starting with Don Kojis, and continuing through Wade-Diener-Novak, 18 Marquette players have had NBA careers of at least 4 years. During that time only 6 Wisconsin players have done that, and MU even got the son of one of those six! (Wes Mathews, of course). With Wes and Jerel moving up in the mock drafts recently, we could end up with 20 bona fide NBA players including six current NBA players, and that's without Dominic or Lazar making. Once Michael Finley finally wraps up his great career, Wisconsin will be down to just Devon Harris unless Alando Tucker is going to get promoted from D-League, or Jon Leuer gets drafted in a couple of years (and he is NOT projected to be so far).
Bo is a great coach, but I just don't see them getting the true blue chippers away from Marquette. A player can choose to play in a better conference for a basketball school playing in front of the 10th biggest home crowds in the country, with a style of play that gives them a shot at the NBA, in a city that CNN just ranked one of the top 5 college basketball towns in America. Why would any blue chipper go to Wisconsin? Let them lob whatever insults they want - the choice is easy and I hope Vander Blue considers MU.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on May 14, 2009, 11:09:58 AM
I seem to recall that some opponents viewed McGuire's recruits as "thugs." Who cares what Wisconsin fans say if we keep beating them on the court. The fact is the top players are going to prefer Marquette's style of play and their prospects for the NBA playing in Milwaukee. Starting with Don Kojis, and continuing through Wade-Diener-Novak, 18 Marquette players have had NBA careers of at least 4 years. During that time only 6 Wisconsin players have done that, and MU even got the son of one of those six! (Wes Mathews, of course). With Wes and Jerel moving up in the mock drafts recently, we could end up with 20 bona fide NBA players including six current NBA players, and that's without Dominic or Lazar making. Once Michael Finley finally wraps up his great career, Wisconsin will be down to just Devon Harris unless Alando Tucker is going to get promoted from D-League, or Jon Leuer gets drafted in a couple of years (and he is NOT projected to be so far).
Bo is a great coach, but I just don't see them getting the true blue chippers away from Marquette. A player can choose to play in a better conference for a basketball school playing in front of the 10th biggest home crowds in the country, with a style of play that gives them a shot at the NBA, in a city that CNN just ranked one of the top 5 college basketball towns in America. Why would any blue chipper go to Wisconsin? Let them lob whatever insults they want - the choice is easy and I hope Vander Blue considers MU.
Good point, Bama!
Wiscy can keep their football...
WE CAN HAVE OUR BASKETBALL!
Thanks 77NCAAChamps, and by the way, earlier today I stop your UNC "2nd place" banner and emailed it to several of my UNC friends. Priceless!
Quote from: dsfire on May 14, 2009, 01:00:14 AM
I never did understand how David Diggs managed to be successful in an engineering program concurrent with playing basketball, that just blew me away. His work ethic must've been through the roof.
I don't know if he actually graduated, but Tony Smith was in the College of Engineering when he was at MU. It always impressed me that someone who later guarded Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals was an engineering student at MU.
Of course, if I remember correctly, not only was Diggs in Engineering, but I think I heard he had a very high GPA.
Anyone out there remember if that is true?
diggs supposedly had a 4.0. he was also a super tough TA. he stayed at MU to get his masters in electrical engineering after his playing days.
Quote from: MUEng92 on May 14, 2009, 12:10:54 PM
I don't know if he actually graduated, but Tony Smith was in the College of Engineering when he was at MU. It always impressed me that someone who later guarded Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals was an engineering student at MU.
Of course, if I remember correctly, not only was Diggs in Engineering, but I think I heard he had a very high GPA.
Anyone out there remember if that is true?
My roommate was in several classes with him and he said he was a pretty good guy but he didn't think that he was very smart. He was in one of his groups for a group project and it sounded like he was the weakest link...
Bart Miller was no slouch in the classroom...on the court was a different story.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 14, 2009, 02:59:53 PM
Bart Miller was no slouch in the classroom...on the court was a different story.
I had that other Mueller guy in some of my engineering classes. I forgot his first name...6'10" white dude with glasses. He always looked like he rolled out of bed and into class.
jon mueller.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 14, 2009, 02:59:53 PM
Bart Miller was no slouch in the classroom...on the court was a different story.
Don't sell him short. He was a tremendous slouch.
Just kidding ... I rarely resist an opportunity to quote Caddyshack.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 14, 2009, 03:42:14 PM
Don't sell him short. He was a tremendous slouch.
Just kidding ... I rarely resist an opportunity to quote Caddyshack.
?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 14, 2009, 03:51:40 PM
fletch?
That is definitely Caddyshack. Not sure what the question mark was for from CBB.
IIRC Tony Smith ened up a fe credits short of finishing his degree and after he retired adn moved back to Milwaukee MU set up a program for him to finish his degre, think his BB jobat MU a few years ago was related to his academic work to finish his degree. Hank Raymonds deserves a lot of credit for getting most of the pre-Crean players to finish their degrees if they left without having graduated. Hank got Jim Chones to finish his degree years after he finished playing and had already been a very successful business person in the Cleveland area after having played in the ABA and NBA for a number of years.
Quote from: MDMU04 on May 14, 2009, 03:54:14 PM
That is definitely Caddyshack. Not sure what the question mark was for from CBB.
Yeah, I know it is. Something weird going on. I responded..."How bout a Fresca"?
For some reason only the ? showed up
Quote from: MUDish on May 14, 2009, 08:15:03 AM
If Wisconsin wants to become Northwestern "Northwest" (for lack of a better term), fine by me. If their academic standards/rigors are going to be so grueling where they will bypass kids who fit NCAA qualifications and go on to graduate from respected institutions (like Marquette), then I'm all for it.
Last I checked, Northwestern is still trying to pop their NCAA Tournament virginity. If Wisconsin wants to go that route and start saying things about MU, won't bother me one bit. I'd rather be making the tournament and competing at a high level rather than being worried about having some guy in Fond du Lac all riled up because Vander Blue got admitted at Marquette.
remember, that little, private school Northwestern has beaten UW-Madison on the football field the last few times they've met. ...and damn near split with them on the bball court last season, not to mention beating them in most other sports. And, academically, they're eons behind.
Quote from: augoman on May 14, 2009, 11:31:38 PM
remember, that little, private school Northwestern has beaten UW-Madison on the football field the last few times they've met. ...and damn near split with them on the bball court last season, not to mention beating them in most other sports. And, academically, they're eons behind.
When you say Northwestern, you've said it all.
The longer this goes, the more I stand by my 'internet circle jerk' remark.
The "slouch" remark was one of my favorite Caddyshack lines.
Judge Smail:"And, you know, Ty, I'm no slouch myself."
Ty: "Don't sell yourself short, Judge. You're a tremendous slouch."
"We have a pool and a pond. Pond would be good for you."