Warriors up 37 with 5:29 left, but how did we give up over double the points in the second half? What happened to the defense? WOW!!!
heres a complaint.
Buzz keeping starters in with 5 mins left esp Mcneal who even the announcer said should be taken out the game. The game is well at hand and he kept everyone in
Sometimes I don't understand the man with the big head
Yeah, but wait till we play a decent team. This doesn't prove anything.
8 turnovers on McNeal. I am glad he is a senior
not a complaint, but someone, who previously was ragging on Cubillan, will be the biggest Cubillan supporter all of a sudden.
Quote from: JMcSteal on March 11, 2009, 03:34:43 PM
heres a complaint.
Buzz keeping starters in with 5 mins left esp Mcneal who even the announcer said should be taken out the game. The game is well at hand and he kept everyone in
Sometimes I don't understand the man with the big head
It's either idiotic (risking injury, not to mention expending energy unnecessarily with another game in 24 hours) or classless (showing up the opponent by running up the score). I'll let the Buzz apologists decide which it is.
Keeping in starters under 10 to go in a game like this, when you KNOW you are playing 'nova tomorrow AND you aren't very deep is ludicrous.
Nice, Buzz.
Quote from: JMcSteal on March 11, 2009, 03:34:43 PM
heres a complaint.
Buzz keeping starters in with 5 mins left esp Mcneal who even the announcer said should be taken out the game. The game is well at hand and he kept everyone in
Sometimes I don't understand the man with the big head
Well, they do need to have 5 guys on the floor, and McNeal sat plenty. Who cares when the minutes come? Haven't seen the box, but I'm betting he played the fewest minutes of any starter - maybe Burke.
Its a ridiculous complaint. Who was out there the last few minutes? Cubillan, Fulce, O'Tule, Frozena and McNeal. How is that running up the score? McNeal rode the bench in the first half. Somebody has to play those minutes.
Jerel didn't play much in the 1st half--how many minutes did he get?
The problem wasn't really our defense...St. John's had open looks in the first half, they just weren't hitting them in the second half.
I'm going to say idiotic not classles, these kids are in college who cares if they're getting blown out. Buzz has nothing to apologize for about it.
I know he sat...but from an injury standpoint and the fact he's played 40 minutes in what...five straight games or something...just leave him out. The risk/reward relationship at that point makes no sense. Crean did that all the time too.
You don't take them out that early because you want to keep the momentum going. Mcneal sat plenty in the first half, there was not much pressure on the guys, and you don't let even the possibility of a Rutgers happen when you need to play again tomorrow.
Quote from: TheManInGold on March 11, 2009, 03:58:50 PM
You don't take them out that early because you want to keep the momentum going. Mcneal sat plenty in the first half, there was not much pressure on the guys, and you don't let even the possibility of a Rutgers happen when you need to play again tomorrow.
Your post is kind of ambiguous; are you in the "idiotic" camp or the "classless" camp?
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:00:46 PM
Your post is kind of ambiguous; are you in the "idiotic" camp or the "classless" camp?
I'm prety sure he's in the "The guys already played some of their lowest minute totals during the big east play, they can play a few more before I put in the 2nd string" camp.
McNeal still managed to get 8 TO's. He better get his head out of his kielbasa.
There's no reason for wes to have played 31 mins in a game we were winning 38-10 at halftime. Just no reason for it. Lazar with 27 mins is too much also.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on March 11, 2009, 04:06:16 PM
There's no reason for wes to have played 31 mins in a game we were winning 38-10 at halftime. Just no reason for it. Lazar with 27 mins is too much also.
What's an appropriate number in a game that is a laugher and they have to expend little physical energy, and zero emotional energy?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2009, 04:07:32 PM
What's an appropriate number in a game that is a laugher and they have to expend little physical energy, and zero emotional energy?
Let's even ignore the "freak injury" possibility on the grounds that a freak injury can happen walking to the locker room or eating lunch.
All it takes is one St. John's player to lose his cool out of frustration (due to his team getting destroyed or that the destroying team iseemingly running up the score) and commit a flagrant foul. Just keep the starters on the bench. Up 30 points with 12 to go, they could have not taken another shot the rest of the game and still won by 10...
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2009, 04:07:32 PM
What's an appropriate number in a game that is a laugher and they have to expend little physical energy, and zero emotional energy?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 11, 2009, 04:07:32 PM
What's an appropriate number in a game that is a laugher and they have to expend little physical energy, and zero emotional energy?
Right. The thing to keep in mind is that Wes's 31 was 9 minutes less than each of the last 4 games (14 less than the OT game vs. Cuse) and Lazar's 27 is probably about 7 minutes less than his average. I have no problem whatsoever with time played. In addition, the only starters still in under 5 minutes were Jerel (who missed half of the first half) and Dwight, who only played 18 minutes total. No qualms here.
I, too, am qualmless.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:11:05 PM
Let's even ignore the "freak injury" possibility on the grounds that a freak injury can happen walking to the locker room or eating lunch.
All it takes is one St. John's player to lose his cool out of frustration (due to his team getting destroyed or that the destroying team iseemingly running up the score) and commit a flagrant foul. Just keep the starters on the bench. Up 30 points with 12 to go, they could have not taken another shot the rest of the game and still won by 10...
It doesn't have to be late in the game for this to happen. See Nutter, Jamar against us last year.
As Naivin wrote in the gameday chat, if St. John's made a run Buzz could have put Wes back in. Take him and Lazar out with 5-6 mins to go and leave them out. There is another game tomorrow. This was the perfect game for MU - a blowout victory to restore confidence and rest players for tomorrow's game. I think Buzz negated the second point by having Wes play as long as he did.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:11:05 PM
Let's even ignore the "freak injury" possibility on the grounds that a freak injury can happen walking to the locker room or eating lunch.
All it takes is one St. John's player to lose his cool out of frustration (due to his team getting destroyed or that the destroying team iseemingly running up the score) and commit a flagrant foul. Just keep the starters on the bench. Up 30 points with 12 to go, they could have not taken another shot the rest of the game and still won by 10...
A smart coach would have had his starters in the lockerroom. All it takes is one St. John's fan to lose control (due to his team getting destroyed or that the destroying team is seemingly runnin up the score) and commit a flagrant attack on the Marquette sideline.
Had MU cleared the bench and gone into a shell with 12 minutes left, and St. John's got back in the game, half of you would be going apesh*t about it.
Quote from: IAmMarquette on March 11, 2009, 04:14:01 PM
Right. The thing to keep in mind is that Wes's 31 was 9 minutes less than each of the last 4 games (14 less than the OT game vs. Cuse) and Lazar's 27 is probably about 7 minutes less than his average.
To me, this is an argument in favor of playing them FEWER minutes today. These guys have been playing insane minutes all season long, and it will catch up with them at some point (if it hasn't already). Why pile on more minutes when you don't need to?
These guys are in awesome condition. They work way harder in most practices every day than they do in games. They will all be fresh tomorrow.
Quote from: IAmMarquette on March 11, 2009, 04:16:59 PM
It doesn't have to be late in the game for this to happen. See Nutter, Jamar against us last year.
Agreed. So let's minimize the risk and not play our starters once the game is effectively over, hmm?
You people are nuts. Would Wes Matthews playing 3 or 4 fewer meaningless minutes really make a difference tomorrow? They had to expend no emotional energy from about 5 minutes into the first half.
As far as who finished the game, who the hell cares? X minutes is X minutes.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:22:05 PM
Agreed. So let's minimize the risk and not play our starters once the game is effectively over, hmm?
Right! Since the game was over at halftime, Cubillan Fulce, O'Tule, Hazel, and Frozena should have played the entire second half. Since you don't want the starters playing, those are your options.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 11, 2009, 04:17:55 PM
Had MU cleared the bench and gone into a shell with 12 minutes left, and St. John's got back in the game, half of you would be going apesh*t about it.
I was thinking the same thing. I had no problem with the minutes the starters played toward the end of the game. A big St. John's run to close it out on account of all the starters sitting wouldn't have helped our confidence going into tomorrow.
We are down to 10 scholarship players. THis silly complaint about playing time is much ado about nothing but par for the course around here after every game.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 11, 2009, 04:28:20 PM
We are down to 10 scholarship players. THis silly complaint about playing time is much ado about nothing but par for the course around here after every game.
As is the absurd degree to which some posters refuse to acknowledge that Buzz Williams isn't the second coming of Dean Smith.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:32:54 PM
As is the absurd degree to which some posters refuse to acknowledge that Buzz Williams isn't the second coming of Dean Smith.
Please show me one person who has asserted as much. Just one.
Qualmless...a great word right there. Count me in the qualmless camp. Glad to see Cubillan get some shots to go down, we're going to need his shooting at some point here.
Sorry Tribby I have you on ignore but I did see your post from Navin's quote. No I don't think Buzz is the second coming of Dean Smith. He has a lot to learn as he is inexperienced but some of you nitpick every single thing he does that it looks like we have a complete moron for a coach which is absurd. We Hazel apparently gone. Mbakwe transferring and DJ out for the year we are down to 10 scholarship players. I don't know what you guys really wanted today.
Do you really think Buzz or any coach for that matter was going to play a starting lineup of Otule, Fulce, Cooby, Frozena and take your pick of Acker/Butler/Burke???????????????? That lineup for 10 plus minutes does it for you??????? Really??????? The minutes played today was not perfect but there was nothing wrong with what Buzz did today.
But hey lets talk about how he didn't burn all of his timeouts today. ::)
No complaints. Nothing bad happened. Everything worked out. If we lose tomorrow it will have absolutely nothing to do with what happened today.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 11, 2009, 04:44:44 PM
Do you really think Buzz or any coach for that matter was going to play a starting lineup of Otule, Fulce, Cooby, Frozena and take your pick of Acker/Butler/Burke???????????????? That lineup for 10 plus minutes does it for you??????? Really???????
With a 30+ point lead? Hell yes it does. And if somehow things did get hairy (and I keep being reminded how St. John's was playing with zero energy or emotion, so that seems unlikely), this isn't baseball; you can indeed take a player out of the lineup and still reinsert him. I promise, they still allow that.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:32:54 PM
As is the absurd degree to which some posters refuse to acknowledge that Buzz Williams isn't the second coming of Dean Smith.
What an idiotic statement.
I was watching the game with about 8 minutes left and I was predicting that some knucklehead would complain about the minutes. My buddy, a non-MU alum asked if I was serious. I had to admit I was. Thanks for making me look good.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
With a 30+ point lead? Hell yes it does. And if somehow things did get hairy (and I keep being reminded how St. John's was playing with zero energy or emotion, so that seems unlikely), this isn't baseball; you can indeed take a player out of the lineup and still reinsert him. I promise, they still allow that.
Ah ... but since you're so concerned with injuries - and not just looking for a reason to complain about the coaching - wouldn't you admit that a player is more likely to get injured after sitting on the bench 15+ minutes (real time), getting cold and then trying to re-enter the game and immediately go full throttle in a "hairy" situation?
Seems like a recipe for a pulled hammy, if you ask me.
A wiser person might suggest the better course of action would be to rotate players in and out to give everyone rest, but also keep them loose.
We shall see how these extra un-needed minutes will affect the players tomorrow and I hope the people that think we are dumb for complaining about the minutes will keep there side if we play sluggish tomorrow
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
With a 30+ point lead? Hell yes it does. And if somehow things did get hairy (and I keep being reminded how St. John's was playing with zero energy or emotion, so that seems unlikely), this isn't baseball; you can indeed take a player out of the lineup and still reinsert him. I promise, they still allow that.
Tribby, you are so way off base it hurts. We have 10 (TEN) scholarship players and Frozena. This isn't an NBA roster; outside of Bulter and maybe Fulce, there is nothing even remotely resembling high D1 talent on our bench. If Buzz follows your logic, Hazel, Otule, Fulce, Cubillan, and Butler/Frozena play all 15-20 minutes in the second half and get their asses handed to them. So you'd rather they basically play the first few minutes of the half, completely blow the 30 point lead (down to 10 or so most likely), and make our starters re-establish the lead for a second time? And don't try to convince me that this wouldn't happen.
You can indeed play good players who happen to start, when your options are limited, as opposed to playing your worst players simply because you have a big lead. I promise, they still allow that.
Seriously, Tribby and McSteal, did you even watch the game and how Buzz was managing it? For most of the 2nd half, there were at least 2 bench guys out there at a given time with the starters, maybe 3 in spots.
No one played more than 31 minutes (Wes), Burke played 19, Fulce had 13, and Hayward/Butler/Acker/Cubillan/McNeal had 25-27 each. So I think our legs should be in pretty good shape tmrw, plus Buzz went 8 deep in giving Cooby and Fulce extended minutes. What more did you want Buzz to do?
Here's the box scores from last year's 3 BET games if you care to compare how Crean managed minutes last year to what Buzz did today. Seems pretty similar to the ND game from what I can see.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280720269 (Seton Hall)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280730087 (Notre Dame)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280740269 (Pittsburgh)
Wes 31, Lazar 27, JM 26. If those aren't the low minute totals for each of them for the year, its close. 'Nova is tough. Even if they hadn't played a minute in the second half, it is still going to be a tough game and if we don't get quality minutes from each of our current top 7, we are going to lose.
Quote from: Tribby on March 11, 2009, 04:20:01 PM
To me, this is an argument in favor of playing them FEWER minutes today. These guys have been playing insane minutes all season long, and it will catch up with them at some point (if it hasn't already). Why pile on more minutes when you don't need to?
It's not a question of need, one of them is going to have to play. We started the year with 11 available scholarship players due to Mbakwe leaving and McMorrow sitting out. With DJ's injury and Hazel's issues that leaves us with 9 scholarship players available. That means 1 starter is going to have to be on the court unless you want Frozena playing 10 minutes. That starter isn't Burke, and it isn't Acker because Cubillan needs the time. That means that either McNeal, Matthews or Hayward is going to have to play.
Geez, I usually try to avoid this board after a loss because of all the negativity, but even with a blowout win, people still find something to bitch about.
you people do realize we had 10 different players get minutes and 7 of those ten played 20 to 30? Wes played 31 minutes and that was the max. It was said earlier in the thread that these guys exert more energy during practice than most games and that is true, especially today. We were able to give everyone, sans Hazel, minutes and 3 bench players played at least 13 minutes. How about we be happy that the bench was utilized that much.
Quote from: The General on March 11, 2009, 05:02:59 PM
Here's the box scores from last year's 3 BET games if you care to compare how Crean managed minutes last year to what Buzz did today. Seems pretty similar to the ND game from what I can see.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280720269 (Seton Hall)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280730087 (Notre Dame)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280740269 (Pittsburgh)
The problem i have with this is we never crushed a team by 30.
I understand what you guys are saying, I just wish Hazel (don't know the whole transfer thing) would get some PT and Buzz could have gave Otule a little more than the 4 mins he got esp if he is our C next year. We were winning by 30 so even though he looked lost it couldn't have hurt to play 10min instead of 4.so then I wouldn't have to hear the announcer saying to get McNeal out of the game
And no I'm not saying play Frozena the whole 2nd half at all
Quote from: JMcSteal on March 11, 2009, 06:52:35 PM
The problem i have with this is we never crushed a team by 30.
I understand what you guys are saying, I just wish Hazel (don't know the whole transfer thing) would get some PT and Buzz could have gave Otule a little more than the 4 mins he got esp if he is our C next year. We were winning by 30 so even though he looked lost it couldn't have hurt to play 10min instead of 4.so then I wouldn't have to hear the announcer saying to get McNeal out of the game
And no I'm not saying play Frozena the whole 2nd half at all
Seriously, who gives a crap what the ESPN announcers have to say about how Buzz is managing our rotations?
As I've said before on this board, Pat Hazel is not playing because of Pat Hazel. Simple as that.
Also, whether Otule gets 4 minutes of PT or 10 minutes of PT at this stage of the season in a 30 point blowout is going to be of ZERO consequence of whether he starts next year or not. He's not very good right now, as 95% of freshman post players tend to be, nor is he going to be of any sort of consequence down the stretch this season because he missed so much time in non-conference play. What matters most for him going forward is what he is doing in practice and what he does in the offseason, not what he does in garbage time during a blowout.
Too many puds on this board
MU wins in a rout on the home court of a Big East team that has won 4 of their last 6 and Tribby bitches about Buzz. Saturday MU lost in OT to Syracuse and Tribby bitched about Buzz. Tomorrow MU plays Villanova and win or lose Tribby will bitch about Buzz. Good old even handed Tribby. What would we do without your insightful, well balanced analysis?
with a name like Tribby, I'd guess MU Tribune writer at some point. I think most of us realize the view of most people associated with that paper in regards to men's basketball. Last page when we win. Front page headline when we lose to USF. Worse than the Urinal Sentinal.
Quote from: BrewCity on March 11, 2009, 04:21:55 PM
These guys are in awesome condition. They work way harder in most practices every day than they do in games. They will all be fresh tomorrow.
Yeah, it's not like we just barely beat G-Town or anything.
What I'm most surprised about is that it took a 30 pt. win for us not to have to read a thread about how awful the officiating was.
My guarantee is that there will be a thread about them for tomorrow, regardless of the outcome.
Quote from: The General on March 11, 2009, 07:20:12 PM
Seriously, who gives a crap what the ESPN announcers have to say about how Buzz is managing our rotations?
Also, whether Otule gets 4 minutes of PT or 10 minutes of PT at this stage of the season in a 30 point blowout is going to be of ZERO consequence of whether he starts next year or not. He's not very good right now, as 95% of freshman post players tend to be, nor is he going to be of any sort of consequence down the stretch this season because he missed so much time in non-conference play. What matters most for him going forward is what he is doing in practice and what he does in the offseason, not what he does in garbage time during a blowout.
Id think that most announcers know what their talkin about but you seem to know better I guess.
And also I'd like to get our "not very good" C live game play experience, live game will help even the smallest bit. Even if it is garbage time if he can do well it can boost the players confindence
Quote from: JMcSteal on March 11, 2009, 06:52:35 PM
The problem i have with this is we never crushed a team by 30.
I understand what you guys are saying, I just wish Hazel (don't know the whole transfer thing) would get some PT and Buzz could have gave Otule a little more than the 4 mins he got esp if he is our C next year. We were winning by 30 so even though he looked lost it couldn't have hurt to play 10min instead of 4.so then I wouldn't have to hear the announcer saying to get McNeal out of the game
And no I'm not saying play Frozena the whole 2nd half at all
Hey mcsteal maybe if your boy Jerel was not the worst player on the court tonight Mu would have been up by more and the subs could have gotten more time. I am getting real sick of him getting picked and pouting while the rest of his team sprints back to try to stop the layin! His attitude and game have been horrendous the last 2+ weeks
Quote from: JMcSteal on March 11, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Id think that most announcers know what their talkin about but you seem to know better I guess.
And also I'd like to get our "not very good" C live game play experience, live game will help even the smallest bit. Even if it is garbage time if he can do well it can boost the players confindence
Again, what do you care about the opinion of the announcers? Is Buzz going over to the scorers table and asking Len Elmore "Gee golly Len, I'm a Texas hick who likes sweet tea and dip, when do you think I should pull Jerel out since you're a sophisticated big city lawyer in your free time?"
And if you don't like what the ESPN guys are saying, use a mute button. It's quite useful, especially with that channel.
Quote from: The General on March 11, 2009, 08:46:00 PM
"Gee golly Len, I'm a Texas hick who likes sweet tea and dip, when do you think I should pull Jerel out since you're a sophisticated big city lawyer in your free time?"
I can just see the post game interview: "I asked Len what I should do because, well, I'm not going to stand up here and pretend that I'm smart enough to coach a basketball game in New Yourk City."
;D
Quote from: The General on March 11, 2009, 08:46:00 PM
Again, what do you care about the opinion of the announcers? Is Buzz going over to the scorers table and asking Len Elmore "Gee golly Len, I'm a Texas hick who likes sweet tea and dip, when do you think I should pull Jerel out since you're a sophisticated big city lawyer in your free time?"
And if you don't like what the ESPN guys are saying, use a mute button. It's quite useful, especially with that channel.
haha i like your style general im likein the quote.
Isn't there some value to having Fulce etc. play with at least some of the starters for assimilation purposes? That would justify keeping some of the starters out more.
Quote from: KC2016 on March 11, 2009, 10:33:19 PM
Isn't there some value to having Fulce etc. play with at least some of the starters for assimilation purposes? That would justify keeping some of the starters out more.
DING DING DING!
That is precisely why McNeal was last to come out. The bench guys in play basically every spot other than 2 guard (other than Cubillan). Cubillan got his minutes with Mo/Wesley. Since Jerel sat most of the first half, if any of the guys in the game with Jerel were to play, they'd have to get used to playing with him in a game situation.
Quote from: The General on March 11, 2009, 08:46:00 PM
Again, what do you care about the opinion of the announcers? Is Buzz going over to the scorers table and asking Len Elmore "Gee golly Len, I'm a Texas hick who likes sweet tea and dip, when do you think I should pull Jerel out since you're a sophisticated big city lawyer in your free time?"
The first part of this sounds like the set up to a dirty limerick.
"Gee Golly Len, I'm an old Texas hick,
Who also likes sweet tea and dip..."
A bold departure from the tales of the proverbial man from Nantucket.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 11, 2009, 07:41:07 PM
MU wins in a rout on the home court of a Big East team that has won 4 of their last 6 and Tribby bitches about Buzz. Saturday MU lost in OT to Syracuse and Tribby bitched about Buzz. Tomorrow MU plays Villanova and win or lose Tribby will bitch about Buzz. Good old even handed Tribby. What would we do without your insightful, well balanced analysis?
Buzz sucks.