MUScoop

Does Dominic deserve (or has he earned) the right to be honored like Wade, Kojis, Rivers, Thompson, Ellis, Lee, Tatum, Meminger, and Lucas?

Fourth in all time steals.
Third in all-time points.
Second in all-time assists.
First in all-time games played.

I'd say his numbers justify it based on who is already in. 

Well, McNeal needs to be retired right?  Can you just retire one or two of the three without the others?  And they really won't retire the number...just the "jersey."

And on top of that, Tony Smith's number needs to be up there too.

I would like to see some sort of recognition that takes the three amigos as a group.   Maybe a cool sombrero or something. ;D     Seriously, you can't have one without the other two. 

Retire DJ's jersey - YES--Eventually. 

Wait 3 to 5 years to make sure his career gets put in perspective and that he stays out of trouble. (I add this last part for anyone--I'm not implying that he's heading for trouble anymore than the next guy)

Honestly....whoever voted "no" need to have their heads examined.

it's too soon for this poll.  right now, emotions are high, and most will vote "yes."  2 weeks ago, i bet most would have said "no."  jersey retirements, in my mind should be a slam dunk, i.e., you ask 100 people, and they all say "hell yes, without a doubt!"  I'll let it all sink in and reflect on it a few years down the line.

Is Diener's going up as well?

Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on February 26, 2009, 05:32:37 PM
it's too soon for this poll.  right now, emotions are high, and most will vote "yes."  2 weeks ago, i bet most would have said "no."  jersey retirements, in my mind should be a slam dunk, i.e., you ask 100 people, and they all say "hell yes, without a doubt!"  I'll let it all sink in and reflect on it a few years down the line.

Agreed. This poll would have been laughed at after the Depaul, USF, or Seton Hall games, when James flat out stunk.

Quote from: avid1010 on February 26, 2009, 05:35:25 PM
Is Diener's going up as well?

I would say Tony Smith and Travis Diener would have to go up there before any of the current guys.  

Maybe they could do something together with the three of them although I'm not sure what that would be, possibly 09 for their graduating year or something like that.

Even though he was a lousy Crean recruit, I did vote yes.  ;) I would wait 5 years.  In my mind, Jerel and DJ both get retired.  I love Wes, think he could be a nice pro, not sure if he warrants retirement of a jersey....at least not yet.


Oh, and we don't retire numbers, we retire jerseys.....or is it the other way around?   :P

I think we should take the route of other big hoops programs and retire a bunch of jerseys.

I think James, McNeal, Matthews all deserve it. Diener and Smith as well. Their numbers all justify it.

Tony Miller's #10 should be up there as well. Always thought he got lost in the shuffle, but if he's not the best PG in MU history he's a close second.

All three amigos were, IMO, better college players than Doc Rivers, and if he's earned the honor, so have they.

Quote from: CTWarrior on February 26, 2009, 07:16:04 PM
All three amigos were, IMO, better college players than Doc Rivers, and if he's earned the honor, so have they.

Wes might not have the stats... but when he ends up on the Board of Trustees it'll get done ;)

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2009, 06:03:49 PM
Even though he was a lousy Crean recruit, I did vote yes.  ;) I would wait 5 years.  In my mind, Jerel and DJ both get retired.  I love Wes, think he could be a nice pro, not sure if he warrants retirement of a jersey....at least not yet.


Oh, and we don't retire numbers, we retire jerseys.....or is it the other way around?   :P

i'm with you on bothe the jerel and wes front.  

you leave MU as the career leading scorer and is such a force on defense, Jerel should be a lock.

Wes's year this season has been phenominal.  his first 3 were good, but nothing stand out.  Cubillan had bigger influences than Wes did.  would like to think about where the team would be, and what they would have done, if he had 4 stellar seasons.

James... man... i don't know.  TT posted where he ranks within MU's all time.  plus his leadership and defense are things you can't put a # on.  not to mention being the freak of nature athlete that he is.

but... his scoring went down each year.  this year, he isn't even the 3rd option.  he's hit clutch shots, but he's not the guy i'd want taking the last shot.  his shoot selection wasn't great many (..many) times.  his three point % and free throw shooting was dismal at best.

if Dj was in the mlb, he'd be one of those players who get debated for all 15yrs for the HoF with his type of #s

No

Quote from: muPARTY on February 26, 2009, 07:19:16 PM
i'm with you on bothe the jerel and wes front.  

you leave MU as the career leading scorer and is such a force on defense, Jerel should be a lock.

Wes's year this season has been phenominal.  his first 3 were good, but nothing stand out.  Cubillan had bigger influences than Wes did.  would like to think about where the team would be, and what they would have done, if he had 4 stellar seasons.

James... man... i don't know.  TT posted where he ranks within MU's all time.  plus his leadership and defense are things you can't put a # on.  not to mention being the freak of nature athlete that he is.

but... his scoring went down each year.  this year, he isn't even the 3rd option.  he's hit clutch shots, but he's not the guy i'd want taking the last shot.  his shoot selection wasn't great many (..many) times.  his three point % and free throw shooting was dismal at best.

You cannot just look at a players scoring numbers to see how worthy they are.  Yeah his scoring went down.  But he's also developed himself into more of a true point guard.  His assists are up, his ratio is WAY up, and his defense is outstanding.

To take the baseball analogy further, it would be like looking at declining home run totals while ignoring a higher on base average and multiple gold glove awards.  DJ is a better all around player now than he was as a freshman.

Quote from: muPARTY on February 26, 2009, 07:19:16 PM
Cubillan had bigger influences than Wes did.

::)

I know I'm in the minority but I think retiring jerseys and numbers should be reserved for only those who have been all-americans.

Quote from: muPARTY on February 26, 2009, 04:52:04 PM
Does Dominic deserve (or has he earned) the right to be honored like Wade, Kojis, Rivers, Thompson, Ellis, Lee, Tatum, Meminger, and Lucas?

What's the hurry?  MU is still wiping the egg off its academic face from the Dwyane Wade fiasco.

You can't retire every four year starter/ significant contributor. 

Quote from: gforce on February 27, 2009, 07:54:10 AM
I know I'm in the minority but I think retiring jerseys and numbers should be reserved for only those who have been all-americans.

James was an All American in 2006-07.

Quote from: HoopsMalone on February 27, 2009, 08:08:54 AM
You can't retire every four year starter/ significant contributor. 

If you can't retire it for a player that's going to be 3rd in scoring, 2nd in assists, 1st in games played etc.  Then who can you retire it for?

Quote from: bma725 on February 27, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
If you can't retire it for a player that's going to be 3rd in scoring, 2nd in assists, 1st in games played etc.  Then who can you retire it for?

And a kid who was an AA, BE ROY, first-team all Big East twice......not to mention being the key to MU's success in the BIG EAST from the opening tap of his career.

Plus, he'll graduate on time.

He's earned it.

Quote from: bma725 on February 27, 2009, 08:14:16 AM
James was an All American in 2006-07.

He was Associated Press Honorable Mention All-American. All his other all-america honors that year were pre-season teams.

Quote from: MUfan12 on February 26, 2009, 06:04:23 PM
Tony Miller's #10 should be up there as well. Always thought he got lost in the shuffle, but if he's not the best PG in MU history he's a close second.

I'm a big Tony Miller fan......but he's not the 2nd best PG to ever play at MU -- and it's not even close.....Not with this heritage (in no particular order):  Meminger, Lee, Rivers, Diener, James, Smith.

You can make a case for Tony as #4, maybe.  But I wont take that either.

do not retire James' number.

I love the kid, and all he has done.

but, retiring jerseys for the sake of retiring jerseys is lame.

Quote from: gforce on February 27, 2009, 08:22:17 AM
He was Associated Press Honorable Mention All-American. All his other all-america honors that year were pre-season teams.

I'm aware of that.  MU has always counted the Honorable Mention All-Americans, and even things like Street & Smiths or Chuck Taylor All Americans on the same level as the guys that made one of the top teams.

Quote from: NYWarrior on February 27, 2009, 08:24:25 AM
I'm a big Tony Miller fan......but he's not the 2nd best PG to ever play at MU -- and it's not even close.....Not with this heritage (in no particular order):  Meminger, Lee, Rivers, Diener, James, Smith.

You can make a case for Tony as #4, maybe.  But I wont take that either.

Oooh.... I don't know. I'd put him behind Meminger and maybe Diener. Smith, Rivers, and Lee all played more of the 2 guard I thought. He's still, over 4 years, more of a pure PG than James has been. We could use his one man destruction of the Pitino press on Sunday  ;)

All Jersey retirements should be done with some perspective.   There should be a minimum of five years before a player is eligible to have his jersey retired.   By that time, the team has cycled through every player that may have played with the person in question and the retired jersey player moves into the category of elder statesman of the program.  For the record, I think Wade was done too quick and for the wrong reason.  It was a PR stunt for the program, rather than truly honoring Wade.

With that said, when the five years is up, I think all three amigos should be retired at the same time on one banner.   Each made the others better...the whole is greater than the sum of the three individual parts.

Quote from: Badgerhater on February 27, 2009, 11:00:18 AM
With that said, when the five years is up, I think all three amigos should be retired at the same time on one banner.   Each made the others better...the whole is greater than the sum of the three individual parts.

With Dwight Burke too of course.

Quote from: bma725 on February 27, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
If you can't retire it for a player that's going to be 3rd in scoring, 2nd in assists, 1st in games played etc.  Then who can you retire it for?

+1000

I think some of you guys are missing DJ's place in history.

Very few players have had the steady consistency and impact he has had for 4 years.

Tony Miller? Come on, that is taking things way too far. Post Al/Pre Crean the only deserving player is DWade. Diener was great college player, but not worthy of retiring jersey. Tony Smith had a great senior year but competition was much less than today.

McNeal would get my vote but it would be five years from now. Retired numbers ae for legends and few make the grade in my mind. Lucas was not deserving based on MU body of work and same holds true to Doc. Earl Tatum was awesome but not even close to be worthy of that honor. Who are we going to retire next Chris Crawford?

For a period MU used retired jersey's and reunion nights for great teams to get some attendance. Those days are over I hope. 1st team all Americans that win a ton get retired.

TOO SOON...... let the dust settle and get emotion out of it

Quote from: THEGYMBAR on February 27, 2009, 11:23:08 AM
Tony Miller? Come on, that is taking things way too far. Post Al/Pre Crean the only deserving player is DWade. Diener was great college player, but not worthy of retiring jersey. Tony Smith had a great senior year but competition was much less than today.

McNeal would get my vote but it would be five years from now. Retired numbers ae for legends and few make the grade in my mind. Lucas was not deserving based on MU body of work and same holds true to Doc. Earl Tatum was awesome but not even close to be worthy of that honor. Who are we going to retire next Chris Crawford?

For a period MU used retired jersey's and reunion nights for great teams to get some attendance. Those days are over I hope. 1st team all Americans that win a ton get retired.

exactly

You have top retire all three at one time@@@@

Just retire the #46.

Quote from: THEGYMBAR on February 27, 2009, 11:23:08 AM
Tony Miller? Come on, that is taking things way too far.

Not that far-fetched.

-Four year starter
-123 games played
-Two NCAA bids
-Sweet 16
-NIT Runner Up
-1,000 point scorer
-956 career assists- 300 more than Dominic in 2nd
-561 rebounds
-8th in career steals
-8th in 3pt made

Pretty decent resume. It depends on the approach, if we gonna retire a bunch of jerseys rather than numbers, he's gotta be in the discussion.

*disclaimer- my favorite MU player until Wade got here*

MUFan12---You are not alone in liking Tony Miller. Obviously many of us have favorites from our younger days and can understand those like Miller. My only point is that he really is not even top 5 in his position in school history, or if so, just barely. Different era when he played and unfortunately for him it was a good but not great era.

Quote from: reinko on February 27, 2009, 12:04:14 PM
Just retire the #46.

22+23+1 ?

Quote from: tower912 on February 26, 2009, 05:01:42 PM
I would like to see some sort of recognition that takes the three amigos as a group.   Maybe a cool sombrero or something. ;D     Seriously, you can't have one without the other two. 

They should all have their jersey retired individually, but all on the same night.

We are in for some dark days ahead when those 3 graduate.

dark days?  get some facts and then come back and see me.  next year will not be nearly as successful as this year, but the program as a whole is in great shape.  maybe hazy days, as far as seeing how the recruits and buzz pan out, but all in all, not much to be worried about.

I didn't want to start on a thread on this as I know its too soon for such talk, but who will be our starter at the #2 next year?

i would guess buycks or butler.

Quote from: THEGYMBAR on February 27, 2009, 11:23:08 AM
Tony Miller? Come on, that is taking things way too far. Post Al/Pre Crean the only deserving player is DWade. Diener was great college player, but not worthy of retiring jersey. Tony Smith had a great senior year but competition was much less than today.

McNeal would get my vote but it would be five years from now. Retired numbers ae for legends and few make the grade in my mind. Lucas was not deserving based on MU body of work and same holds true to Doc. Earl Tatum was awesome but not even close to be worthy of that honor. Who are we going to retire next Chris Crawford?

For a period MU used retired jersey's and reunion nights for great teams to get some attendance. Those days are over I hope. 1st team all Americans that win a ton get retired.

Earl Tatum was a first team All American and won a ton, how is he not worthy?

I like the sombrero in the rafters with their numbers on it.
However, retiring his jersey will be dependent on what happens in post-season.  If the team (even w/o him) goes far, I think the odds go up. 

Quote from: bma725 on February 27, 2009, 04:16:53 PM
Earl Tatum was a first team All American and won a ton, how is he not worthy?

outstanding response.  leading the team to a title game might have helped too, eh?

Quote from: bma725 on February 27, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
If you can't retire it for a player that's going to be 3rd in scoring, 2nd in assists, 1st in games played etc.  Then who can you retire it for?

Exactly what I would say.  He has the numbers.  I would wait 5 years at least, but he should get it.


Incidentally, remember all the crap about Wade being retired in just a few years.  If we waited 5 years, it would be right about now....right in the middle of his very ugly divorce, etc.  Sometimes timing works out just right.

I don't think it should be limited to all-Americans only, though I think anyone that does reach that status should automatically get it (North Carolina hangs the jersey in the rafters of any player that is 1st or 2nd team All America, or an MVP of a national title team, or a member of a Gold Medal Olympic team).  Note, I said hung in the rafters, doesn't mean the jersey is retired.

UNC has only retired 7 jerseys but 43 are hung in the rafters.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honored_North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_men%27s_basketball_players