MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: nola03 on February 18, 2009, 10:26:49 AM
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People will point to the 6 TOs but two of those were fouls not called. I'll gladly take a 2:1 assist/turnover ratio from my PG. And I don't think we'll see our PG get 4 blocks maybe in the next 3-5 seasons.
He is an excellent player on both ends of the court that we will dearly, dearly miss next season.
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Really? Still can't shoot to save his life.
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made his free throws last night
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Glad you said something I was surely not going to start athread on it as it would only bring out the haters. So sad, we have so many people who hate on Dj becuase they watch 3 highlights on an ESPN clip and think there are better PG's out there. he is one of the top 4 PG's in the country for 4 years running what ablessing and what agreat great kid. No he is not agreat shooter but he is bottom line incredible in every other phase of the game.
Just voted for him again for the Cousy award at the top of the page.
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My biggest complaint from last night was the time he brought up the ball and just put up a three. He didn't look for other players, he just brought it up and and shot a brick. He can't do that.
Otherwise he's become a great team player and a great defensive player for his height ... have you seen some of the blocks he's had this season. His shooting needs some help still, but I'll get over it he discontinues the above action.
Keith
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Glad you said something I was surely not going to start athread on it as it would only bring out the haters. So sad, we have so many people who hate on Dj becuase they watch 3 highlights on an ESPN clip and think there are better PG's out there. he is one of the top 4 PG's in the country for 4 years running what ablessing and what agreat great kid. No he is not agreat shooter but he is bottom line incredible in every other phase of the game.
I'm sure you count me as one of the "haters," even though I said the same exact thing you did - "he is one of the top 4 PGs in the country." I just don't think he's the best.
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My biggest complaint from last night was the time he brought up the ball and just put up a three. He didn't look for other players, he just brought it up and and shot a brick. He can't do that.
I don't have a problem if he comes up and shoots the three (yes, I'd like to see him take a little time first) as long as he isn't doing it time and time again, especially after having missed the last 5. Let's face it, there have been games when DJ gets hot from beyond the arc. I don't have a problem letting him find out if it's going to be one of those games as long as he realizes when it isn't going to be his night shooting.
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Ask Louisville, Duke or Xavier if they'd take James. He is a very good college player and a fantastic representative for the university.
If he takes one bad shot, I can live with that. Four or five, then we need to talk.
Get behind this guy, the Warriors and enjoy the sprint to the finish.
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I don't have a problem if he comes up and shoots the three (yes, I'd like to see him take a little time first) as long as he isn't doing it time and time again, especially after having missed the last 5. Let's face it, there have been games when DJ gets hot from beyond the arc. I don't have a problem letting him find out if it's going to be one of those games as long as he realizes when it isn't going to be his night shooting.
I know he can get hot, and I know he only did it once instead of 4 or 5 (which I've seen happen earlier this season). I don't mind if he takes a 3, I'd just prefer he look around a little before doing it. There was still 30 or so left on the shot clock as I recall.
Keith
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You shouldn't be looking around if you are wide open.
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I have watched or listened to every game over the past four years and I don't believe I am ignorant in disagreeing with those of you who feel James is one of the top four point guards in the country. I am confident most college basketball analysts would rank him somewhere around the 10-15 range. I understand the NBA draft doesn't necessarily prove whose best at the collegiate level, because several factors are taken into consideration, including size, but I'd be incredulous if James is one of the top four point guards chosen. In my opinion, there are several point guards who are a notch or two above James in both collegiate output and pro potential.
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I'm a DJ fan, but to say his game was outstanding last night is inaccurate. He hit one three, which was a horrible shot (fading to the corner with a hand in his face), bricked 2 or 3 others and turned the ball over 6 times! He had a decent game, but will need to play much better in the next 5 for MU to be successful.
One thing I've noticed about him lately, he starts the game really aggressive (taking the ball to the hoop, creating on offense) and usually settles for 3 pointers in the second half. Personally I think he gets a bit tired, his on the ball defense is nothing short of extraordinary and he continues the pressure throughout the game. If you've played Bball you know how exhausting playing intense defense can be.
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I'm a DJ fan, but to say his game was outstanding last night is inaccurate. He hit one three, which was a horrible shot (fading to the corner with a hand in his face), bricked 2 or 3 others and turned the ball over 6 times! He had a decent game, but will need to play much better in the next 5 for MU to be successful.
That's fair. We all have our own opinion. Because mine is different then yours doesn't make it inaccurate though.
When my PG gets me 13 points, 8 assists, 7 steals, 4 blocked shots and harasses his defensive assignment 90% of his time on court, I find that outstanding.
Can't wait until we see the next MU point guard end up with a stat line like that.
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That's fair. We all have our own opinion. Because mine is different then yours doesn't make it inaccurate though.
When my PG gets me 13 points, 8 assists, 7 steals, 4 blocked shots and harasses his defensive assignment 90% of his time on court, I find that outstanding.
Can't wait until we see the next MU point guard end up with a stat line like that.
when will we see it again and when did we ever see it before. we have clowns on the board arguing if he is top 4 or top 10, what a joke. Anyone that thinks they can name 10 pgs better than james has never seen them play ecxept in highlights segments.
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the turnovers were alarming last night but i guess we can accept them with how stellar the rest of his statline was, as well as the fact that he just hasn't been turning the ball over this year. Don't be shocked to see Cadougan with box scores just as impressive in the next 4 years though -but probably in a different way. He most likely won't be the harassing defender that D-James is and therefore won't get the steals and certainly not the blocks, but he will be a FAR better shooter than James, from everywhere on the court. He'll rack up the dimes, too, especially with an actual inside presence.
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I warn you now....here comes a message from a DJ "hater"
Yes, yes, by your definition, I am a hater. I agree with few on this thread and think that DJ is closer to the top 10-15 best point guard rather than top 5 or even "the best". Funny, I bet if any reputable basketball mind came up to DJ and said "you sir, are a top 10 PG in the nation right now", DJ would be honored. DJ is a great player who helps our team, but stop telling us to vote for him as the "best PG in america" and then calling us less Marquette fans when we disagree.
Ya, he had a full state line last night - especially with the 6 turnovers. In many eyes, he can do no wrong. When he has 6 turnovers we praise his all around night (which deservers praise) and when he has 1 turnover we praise his 4:1 assist/TO ratio.
Also, claiming that the "haters" get their opinions from 2-3 clips on the highlight reel is just ridiculous. Do they show a lot of bad threes, overdribbling in crunch time, and missed free throws in hightlight reels? I must be watching the wrong show, because all I see no the highlights of DJ are his alley-oop dunks. I watch every MU game from beginning to end and I can confidentally say that the times when DJ causes me say to myself "wow" and "noooooooooooooooo!" are at best, a 50/50 split. Not so great a ratio for the best PG in American eh?
I am a bigger fan of basketball than I am of Dominic James. If baseball is bigger than Alex Rodriguez than CBB is bigger than Dominic James. I would rather see the Cousy Award go to someone like Steph Curry, Patrick Mills, Ty Lawson, Jonny Flynn, or Eric Maynor. If it was chosen by CBB writers and analysts, it would be either Curry, Lawson, and Maynor
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I love DJ. When he is having a good night there is no one more fun to watch and that includes Jerel. I love DJ's defense and I never worry with him bringing the ball up the court. What I criticise him for is that he seems to lose the WILL to penetrate and dish and when he does our offense becomes a lot of standing around. This happens particularly when facing a zone. With no post presence we must have him driving the ball to get the defense moving. Maybe he just gets tired and who could blame him with the minutes he must play and the way he plays D.( the only counter to that is that he seems to play better in the second half when he should be more fatigued)
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The problem is basing what DJ accomplishes against what you "expect" from a point guard. I don't expect a PG to block four shots and have the leaping ability to help on the glass (at least in terms of getting a hand on the ball). Expectations are that PGs rack up assists, limit turnovers and hit shots. James never is going to be a good shooter but we should admit that he does things other PGs don't do. Whether that makes him one of the best PGs in the country is up for debate.
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1617novakn
waiting for thos e 9-14 Pgs that are better.... anyothers,
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when will we see it again and when did we ever see it before. we have clowns on the board arguing if he is top 4 or top 10, what a joke. Anyone that thinks they can name 10 pgs better than james has never seen them play ecxept in highlights segments.
Well Mr. Hayward did McNeal have an outstanding game last night??? Because people have been b*tching about him on this board. He did have 13 points 7 assists and 6 boards....no matter the 8 turnovers. As for the 4 blocks, I can't remember one? Seriously, I really can't.
I'm sorry, but 4-14 from the field and 6 or 7 turnovers from you PG is not outstanding. Didn't say he played terrible, read my post. I'll say it again, if he doesn't play better the next 5 games, against good competition, we will lose. 4-14 and 6 or 7 turnovers will not get it done vs. Pitt, Louisville, UCONN or Cuse.
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If you are looking for Dj to shoot the ball well you will be continually disappointed. Your decison to not accept his shooting woes are causing you to miss one of the all time greats. Your loss.
Ty lawson and collison dont shoot it real well eaither but I am sure the know nothings out there that have not named there 9-14 PG's better than DJ have them at the top of their lists.
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If you are looking for Dj to shoot the ball well you will be continually disappointed. Your decison to not accept his shooting woes are causing you to miss one of the all time greats. Your loss.
Ty lawson and collison dont shoot it real well eaither but I am sure the know nothings out there that have not named there 9-14 PG's better than DJ have them at the top of their lists.
Both Lawson and Collison have ppg and apg averages about the same as DJ...but their shooting percentages are better. What does that tell you?
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Are you even coming CLOSE to arguing that DJ is better or as good as Ty Lawson. If so, I will never post again on this board - it will have lost all credibilty.
Have you ever seen Ty Lawson play? You know, a whole game? He is unequivocally the best player on maybe the best team. That offense breathes through him and him alone.
And if you want to get into a pissing match - here are better PG's
Stephen Curry
Ty Lawson
Jonny Flynn
Darren Collison
Patrick Mills (before he got hurt)
Eric Maynor
those are, in my opinion, without dispute. it is hard to compare 7th best vs 12th best, but a case can be made for the following.
Levance Fields
Toney Douglas
Jeff Teague
Sherron Collins (maybe)
argue you what you want about DJ's great assist/TO ratio. Fields is almost 4:1, and many of these others are pushing 20 PPG, which is a pretty good tradeoff for one less tick off the assist/TO ratio. Toney Douglas put like 30 on UNC. How many would Dom score?
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I warn you now....here comes a message from a DJ "hater"
Yes, yes, by your definition, I am a hater. I agree with few on this thread and think that DJ is closer to the top 10-15 best point guard rather than top 5 or even "the best". Funny, I bet if any reputable basketball mind came up to DJ and said "you sir, are a top 10 PG in the nation right now", DJ would be honored. DJ is a great player who helps our team, but stop telling us to vote for him as the "best PG in america" and then calling us less Marquette fans when we disagree.
Ya, he had a full state line last night - especially with the 6 turnovers. In many eyes, he can do no wrong. When he has 6 turnovers we praise his all around night (which deservers praise) and when he has 1 turnover we praise his 4:1 assist/TO ratio.
Also, claiming that the "haters" get their opinions from 2-3 clips on the highlight reel is just ridiculous. Do they show a lot of bad threes, overdribbling in crunch time, and missed free throws in hightlight reels? I must be watching the wrong show, because all I see no the highlights of DJ are his alley-oop dunks. I watch every MU game from beginning to end and I can confidentally say that the times when DJ causes me say to myself "wow" and "noooooooooooooooo!" are at best, a 50/50 split. Not so great a ratio for the best PG in American eh?
I am a bigger fan of basketball than I am of Dominic James. If baseball is bigger than Alex Rodriguez than CBB is bigger than Dominic James. I would rather see the Cousy Award go to someone like Steph Curry, Patrick Mills, Ty Lawson, Jonny Flynn, or Eric Maynor. If it was chosen by CBB writers and analysts, it would be either Curry, Lawson, and Maynor
When people mentioned they get their opinion from highlight reels, they meant people get opinions of other PG based of off highlight reels, not their opinion of DJ. Do you watch every single Eric Maynor game or do you just read his stat line and watch his highlights on ESPN? Maybe he makes some stupid moves?
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Are you even coming CLOSE to arguing that DJ is better or as good as Ty Lawson. If so, I will never post again on this board - it will have lost all credibilty.
Have you ever seen Ty Lawson play? You know, a whole game? He is unequivocally the best player on maybe the best team. That offense breathes through him and him alone.
And if you want to get into a pissing match - here are better PG's
Stephen Curry
Curry is not a better point guard than DJ. Curry is a much better scorer, but if you are talking about playing point guard in the BE night in and night out, I would take DJ in a second over Curry. I also don't think Curry's defense is that good either.
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Of course I don't watch every Eric Maynor game, but it would take A LOT of dumb mistakes to nullify 23 PPG and 6 assists. Plus, I watched him destroy Duke in the tournament....as a sophomore.
DJ does not have the decision making ability to give his stats a premium to compete with 20 PPG, better shooting, and nearly the same amount of assits.
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Can't wait until we see the next MU point guard end up with a stat line like that.
His name is Junior Cadougan
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what is the proper way to textual express complete and utter shock, mixed with laughter?
Stephen Curry....and his 30 ppg....you wouldn't take that over DJ and his 2.5/1 assit to turnover and 11 ppg? I can't believe you didn't get the MU coaching job - did you apply? they must have lost your resume. What would Steph's lakluster defense have done against Villanova - how many did Scottie Reynolds score? DJ is a great on the ball defender, but overall we are not the defensive team we were under TC, so DJ's defense is not single handedly winning us games.
Speaking of single handedly winning games....how about that Davidson run in the NCAAs last year? Come ON NOW! They play the same position. interchange them and what happens? If you have actually watched Steph play - a full game - you would see he is a great passer.
I refuse to spend more time arguing whether or not Steph Curry/Ty Lawson is better than Dom James. I love DJ, but this isn't fair.
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His name is Junior Cadougan
He looks like an extremely heady prospect and I'm excited to watch him but Toronto may not have 4 blocked shots in an entire season.
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what is the proper way to textual express complete and utter shock, mixed with laughter?
Stephen Curry....and his 30 ppg....you wouldn't take that over DJ and his 2.5/1 assit to turnover and 11 ppg? I can't believe you didn't get the MU coaching job - did you apply? they must have lost your resume. What would Steph's lakluster defense have done against Villanova - how many did Scottie Reynolds score? DJ is a great on the ball defender, but overall we are not the defensive team we were under TC, so DJ's defense is not single handedly winning us games.
Speaking of single handedly winning games....how about that Davidson run in the NCAAs last year? Come ON NOW! They play the same position. interchange them and what happens? If you have actually watched Steph play - a full game - you would see he is a great passer.
I refuse to spend more time arguing whether or not Steph Curry/Ty Lawson is better than Dom James. I love DJ, but this isn't fair.
The notion that Steph Currey is a PG is laughable. Great player yes, but he's not a PG and doesn't deserve to be on the Cousy list.
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Are you even coming CLOSE to arguing that DJ is better or as good as Ty Lawson. If so, I will never post again on this board - it will have lost all credibilty.
Have you ever seen Ty Lawson play? You know, a whole game? He is unequivocally the best player on maybe the best team. That offense breathes through him and him alone.
And if you want to get into a pissing match - here are better PG's
Stephen Curry
Ty Lawson
Jonny Flynn
Darren Collison
Patrick Mills (before he got hurt)
Eric Maynor
those are, in my opinion, without dispute. it is hard to compare 7th best vs 12th best, but a case can be made for the following.
Levance Fields
Toney Douglas
Jeff Teague
Sherron Collins (maybe)
argue you what you want about DJ's great assist/TO ratio. Fields is almost 4:1, and many of these others are pushing 20 PPG, which is a pretty good tradeoff for one less tick off the assist/TO ratio. Toney Douglas put like 30 on UNC. How many would Dom score?
Due to the fact that you apparently only rate a players contributions by how mnay points he scores your ignorance is so great that me talking about how mnay points Toney douglas scored or how many points Dom would score is to lower myself to your level. Lets just list the NCAA scoring leaders and the top 5 can be the first team all americans. right. SAD!! but i guess ignorance is bliss for you
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what is the proper way to textual express complete and utter shock, mixed with laughter?
Stephen Curry....and his 30 ppg....you wouldn't take that over DJ and his 2.5/1 assit to turnover and 11 ppg? I can't believe you didn't get the MU coaching job - did you apply? they must have lost your resume. What would Steph's lakluster defense have done against Villanova - how many did Scottie Reynolds score? DJ is a great on the ball defender, but overall we are not the defensive team we were under TC, so DJ's defense is not single handedly winning us games.
Speaking of single handedly winning games....how about that Davidson run in the NCAAs last year? Come ON NOW! They play the same position. interchange them and what happens? If you have actually watched Steph play - a full game - you would see he is a great passer.
I refuse to spend more time arguing whether or not Steph Curry/Ty Lawson is better than Dom James. I love DJ, but this isn't fair.
You do realize that Curry only moved to PG this year right? That last year he was playing the #2?
The point stands. I would rather have James at #1 in a full BE schedule rather than Curry. Believe me, I would love to have Curry on the team, but he is not a better point than DJ given the competition that MU faces. Levance Fields would make Curry weep openly.
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what is the proper way to textual express complete and utter shock, mixed with laughter?
Stephen Curry....and his 30 ppg....you wouldn't take that over DJ and his 2.5/1 assit to turnover and 11 ppg? I can't believe you didn't get the MU coaching job - did you apply? they must have lost your resume. What would Steph's lakluster defense have done against Villanova - how many did Scottie Reynolds score? DJ is a great on the ball defender, but overall we are not the defensive team we were under TC, so DJ's defense is not single handedly winning us games.
Speaking of single handedly winning games....how about that Davidson run in the NCAAs last year? Come ON NOW! They play the same position. interchange them and what happens? If you have actually watched Steph play - a full game - you would see he is a great passer.
I refuse to spend more time arguing whether or not Steph Curry/Ty Lawson is better than Dom James. I love DJ, but this isn't fair.
Ohh i get it a TC lover, you lover leaving you has your brain all mixed up. We have suffered defensively not becuase we lost a poor defensive coach , which Cream was. But because we lost ooze and have a player 2-3 inches shorter who is a significantly inferior rebounder and defender in his place ( Burke) or have a 6'4 player in LAzar playing in that spot when Burke is not. Please get a grip, does drool leak off your lip while you watch basketball. To say Tc was agood defensive coach, well i just would not say that too loudly, makes your sound even dumber than saying Dj is not outstanding.
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That is such a typical response from the masses - the masses that only watch Sportscenter highlight and the masses that DJ haters are accussed of being. Since you haven't seen a Davidson game, I'll just pull up the non-PG Steph Curry's stats.
29 ppg - 5.8 apg - 1.67 a/to - 2.7 steals - 4.1 rebounds
and DJ - the "true" PG
11.9 ppg - 5.4 apg - 2.75 a/to - 2.2 steals - 3.7 rpg
That is correct, Steph Curry actually gets more assists than DJ. Any idea what that number would be playing alongside Wes, Jerel, and Lazar? You see Steph Curry launching on Sportscenter and thats it. Forgive him for scoring 29 ppg (should be closer to 30 w.o that goose-egg double coverage fiasco).
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I hate TC with a passion and would most certainly not piss on him if he was on fire, but I respect what he did for the program and merely stated the facts. We were better at defense last year.
Also, DJ averages 11 and 5. You wouldn't take a PG that averages 20 and 4? Interesting strategy there Cotton.
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Also, you downgrade Steph because he averages 30 against weak opponents. That doesn't mean that he can't do that against better opponents, he actually does in non-conference games each year and in the tourney. Last time I checked, colleges cant trade players so Curry is stuck lighting up nobodys. Ignoring what he has done against elite teams (the same as he has done against weaker opponents) is true ignorance.
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That is such a typical response from the masses - the masses that only watch Sportscenter highlight and the masses that DJ haters are accussed of being. Since you haven't seen a Davidson game, I'll just pull up the non-PG Steph Curry's stats.
29 ppg - 5.8 apg - 1.67 a/to - 2.7 steals - 4.1 rebounds
and DJ - the "true" PG
11.9 ppg - 5.4 apg - 2.75 a/to - 2.2 steals - 3.7 rpg
That is correct, Steph Curry actually gets more assists than DJ. Any idea what that number would be playing alongside Wes, Jerel, and Lazar? You see Steph Curry launching on Sportscenter and thats it. Forgive him for scoring 29 ppg (should be closer to 30 w.o that goose-egg double coverage fiasco).
Look beyond the numbers and actually watch them play. Watch how they handle the ball, watch how they direct their teammates, watch how they set up the offense. Do that and you'll see that Dominic James is a point guard, while Steph Curry is a 2 guard that passes the ball occasionally.
There's a huge difference.
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I hate TC with a passion and would most certainly not piss on him if he was on fire, but I respect what he did for the program and merely stated the facts. We were better at defense last year.
Also, DJ averages 11 and 5. You wouldn't take a PG that averages 20 and 4? Interesting strategy there Cotton.
we were better at defense last year ...lets give the credit to Ooze where it belongs not Cream
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That is such a typical response from the masses - the masses that only watch Sportscenter highlight and the masses that DJ haters are accussed of being. Since you haven't seen a Davidson game, I'll just pull up the non-PG Steph Curry's stats.
29 ppg - 5.8 apg - 1.67 a/to - 2.7 steals - 4.1 rebounds
and DJ - the "true" PG
11.9 ppg - 5.4 apg - 2.75 a/to - 2.2 steals - 3.7 rpg
That is correct, Steph Curry actually gets more assists than DJ. Any idea what that number would be playing alongside Wes, Jerel, and Lazar? You see Steph Curry launching on Sportscenter and thats it. Forgive him for scoring 29 ppg (should be closer to 30 w.o that goose-egg double coverage fiasco).
Interesting that you glossed over the 1.67 v. 2.75 a/to ratio. Probably the best measure of a PG.
And please stop bringing up ppg. The reason that he has so many points is because he shoots...all...of...the...time. He is only shooting 45% this year...39% from 3. Jerel McNeal has been more accurate this year - 48% and 43% respectively. Hell, Wes Matthews is a more accurate three point shooter this year - and that's considered his weakness.
And I haven't yet brought up the competition aspect...Southern Conference v. Big East...
Point stands. Curry would not be a better PG for MU than DJ is right now.
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Interesting that you only focused on one stat. Assit/TO is a great measure, but come on - you need to put it in context. 2.75 vs 1.67. Not that great of a difference. 30 vs 11....a huge difference.
You need to look at the whole package. Are you willing to sacrifice 1.08 assist/TO for 19 points and better shooting? I sure am. If we want to measure solely on that stat, Levance Fields blows DJ out of the water with a 4.0 assist/TO.
Also, if you want me to go ahead and isolate Steph Curry's career stats against BCS teams like Oklahoma, Duke, NC State, Georgetown, Wisconsin, and Kansas then I will. I'm pretty sure he lit them all up.
You are also claiming that Jerel McNeal, maybe a front-runner for BEast POY is more accurate from downtown. Is that an insult? I bet Jessica Bield is hotter than your gf/wife. Is that an insult? Absolutely not.
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I bet Jessica Bield is hotter than your gf/wife. Is that an insult? Absolutely not.
What if his gf/wife is Jessica Biel? ;)
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than he should spend a lot less time on message boards
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We're not talking about who's the better player, we're talking about who's the better PG. Curry's 30 to 11 advantage says nothing about his abilities as a PG, only his abilities as a scorer.
Remember, the award is named after a guy who is known for his great ball handling, amazing passes, and pure point guard ability, not his scoring. Similarly, the award was intended to go to a player like Cousy, a player who showed pure point guard skills, who managed the team and the game whenever they were in.....not a shooting guard that plays point because he's too short.
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Interesting that you only focused on one stat. Assit/TO is a great measure, but come on - you need to put it in context. 2.75 vs 1.67. Not that great of a difference. 30 vs 11....a huge difference.
You need to look at the whole package. Are you willing to sacrifice 1.08 assist/TO for 19 points and better shooting? I sure am. If we want to measure solely on that stat, Levance Fields blows DJ out of the water with a 4.0 assist/TO.
The caveat here is that 1) Curry is basically a one-man team, and 2) you're assuming that replacing DJ with Curry would increase MU's scoring average by 19points, which, in all likelihood, would not be the case. Curry would probably still get his, but at whose expense?
It's an interesting debate, but for a PG, I'll stick with DJ over Steph Curry.
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DJ could probably put up some sick numbers vs Elon and Furman. Does he have flaws in his game? Of course. Is he a great player? Again of course. He had too many TO's yesterday, but it was his season high, so its not like he is turning the ball over all the time. And he also had 7 steals, so I think getting 7 turn overs makes up for having 6-- not even to mention his assists. Oh and he is averaging more steals than TO on the season.
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Also I think DJ destroyed Duke as a sophomore, didn't he? Something like 25pts and 7 assists.
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Interesting that you only focused on one stat. Assit/TO is a great measure, but come on - you need to put it in context. 2.75 vs 1.67. Not that great of a difference. 30 vs 11....a huge difference.
You need to look at the whole package. Are you willing to sacrifice 1.08 assist/TO for 19 points and better shooting? I sure am.
Again with the ppg. He *gets* those points because he *shoots* a lot.
Put it this way, if you plug Curry's *percentages* into James' actual *attempts* Curry gets 367 points this year versus DJ's 309. Divide that by 26 games and that's only 14.12 ppg. (Against inferior competition.) Considering that Curry turns it over 1.5 times more a game, and considering that James is a much better defender, I go with DJ.
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I most certainly am not claiming MU scoring would go up by exactly 19 points, maybe more, maybe less. All I am saying is his scoring ability and passing ability would make MU a FAR FAR FAR FAR better team.
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You keep glossing over the fact that the reason he scores a lot is because he shoots a lot. He would never get that many shots playing for MU. And he's not a better passer than James.
Jeez...and to think yesterday I was being called a James "hater." ::)
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If you are looking for Dj to shoot the ball well you will be continually disappointed. Your decison to not accept his shooting woes are causing you to miss one of the all time greats. Your loss.
Ty lawson and collison dont shoot it real well eaither but I am sure the know nothings out there that have not named there 9-14 PG's better than DJ have them at the top of their lists.
(emphasis mine)
Sigh.
Ty Lawson is shooting 49.4% from 3, 55.6% from the field, and 80.5% from the free throw line. He has the #1 offensive rating IN THE COUNTRY per Ken Pom. Don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments.
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IDo you think Buzz Williams is retarded? I think if Steph Curry has the ability to put up 30-40 while being double covered, he may find a way to feed him the rock in our system.
Also, why are you ragging on him for shooting too much? The kid makes the shots when defenses spend the entire game trying to stop him and ONLY him. If a defense had to worry about Steph, Jerel, Wes, and Lazar - I dare say that we would not lose a game. (Maybe the Nova game just because they put up 102).
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welcome to the conversation Wareagle, I think you just might have a brain! Sure is nice eh?
Btw, to the joke who transposed DJ's shot attempts on Steph's averages. Lets do it the other way around. What if DJ shot as much as Steph? He would get killed on campus. Literally killed.
DJ's shot attempts are controlled by his lack of a jump shot, not the system of competition.
From here on out, no one is allowed to talk about weak competition unless you can explain to me how he scored 44 against Oklahoma this year. Or how he lead his team to the tourney run will averagin 30+ against zaga, wisconsin, G-town, and kansas. He is an equal opportunity sharp shooter
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Someone's got a man crush!
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BTW to all of the posters out there that say Steph is not a real PG because he is a scorer just as much as a passer.
CP3 = 21 ppg
Deron Williams = 19.3 ppg.
They are also the NBA's number 1 and 2 assist men and unequivocally the two best young PG's. Care to elaborate on that argument at all?
I will enter my stock response to anything that you say...Remember that Steph Curry has more assists per game with much much inferior teammates.
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IDo you think Buzz Williams is retarded? I think if Steph Curry has the ability to put up 30-40 while being double covered, he may find a way to feed him the rock in our system.
Also, why are you ragging on him for shooting too much? The kid makes the shots when defenses spend the entire game trying to stop him and ONLY him. If a defense had to worry about Steph, Jerel, Wes, and Lazar - I dare say that we would not lose a game. (Maybe the Nova game just because they put up 102).
So your theory is that Williams would find a way to get Curry "30-40?" Therefore he'd have to take shots from someone right? Who do you want him to take them from? McNeal? Matthews? Hayward? They all shoot better than Curry does now...that doesn't seem to make much sense.
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welcome to the conversation Wareagle, I think you just might have a brain! Sure is nice eh?
Btw, to the joke who transposed DJ's shot attempts on Steph's averages. Lets do it the other way around. What if DJ shot as much as Steph? He would get killed on campus. Literally killed.
DJ's shot attempts are controlled by his lack of a jump shot, not the system of competition.
From here on out, no one is allowed to talk about weak competition unless you can explain to me how he scored 44 against Oklahoma this year. Or how he lead his team to the tourney run will averagin 30+ against zaga, wisconsin, G-town, and kansas. He is an equal opportunity sharp shooter
DJ would be averaging 23.9 with Curry's attempts. 8th in the country. He'd be a legend.
And please stop calling Curry a "sharpshooter." That is laughable considering his shooting percentage. He's a scorer who gets streaky occasionally.
And definately *not* a BE caliber point guard.
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If folks want to envision life without DJ, hearken back last year to the home Louisville game when we was ill and didn't start...brutal. DJ is a freak athlete and is the engine on both sides of the ball (something Curry cannot claim). He may have a bad half but it doesn't affect his entire game. Put him on UNC with all that talent and Dookie V proclaims him a god. If MU had a true 5, this contest wouldn't even be close.
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you seem to be "glossing over" the fact that Steph gets his numbers when defense try to do one thing...stop him. What do you think DJ's shooting percentage would be if the defense keyed in on trying to stop him. He is our 4th option, not exactly the focus of anyone's defense.
Show any other fan in the nation this conversation and they would laugh everyone out of the room. I am almost embarassed that you feel this way - our 11 ppg 5 assist PG is better than a first team all american at the same position. Sports writers are smart people, why isn't DJ a first team all american?
Never mind, this really isn't worth it. Dominic James is better than Steph Curry because DJ plays in the big east. As much as it genuinely pains me to say this, talk to me about competition when Steph Curry is an NBA starter in 5 years and DJ is in the NBDL. I wish to god he could make it in the NBA, but I am more of a realist.
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talk to me about competition when Steph Curry is an NBA starter in 5 years and DJ is in the NBDL. I wish to god he could make it in the NBA, but I am more of a realist.
College success =/= NBA success. You know that.
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It is relevant when you are playing the "small school" card and claiming the Curry can not do it against an elite level.
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It is relevant when you are playing the "small school" card and claiming the Curry can not do it against an elite level.
No, it isn't. Projecting who will have the better NBA career has absolutely nothing to do with who is a better fit for this MU team.
Besides, who's to say that Curry won't be the next Adam Morrison/JJ Redick; i.e. PHENOMENAL college players who have yet to find their way in the Association?
So, like I said: college success =/= NBA success. You know that.
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It gets to the point where you (posters who believe MU is better with Dom than Steph Curry) are so wrong, it literally is not worth it anymore to continue. I think I have reached that point.
By the way, any of you guys want to get into a NCAA tournament pool. You are exactly the kind of people that pick MU to win it all every year, should be easy money.
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Someone's got a man crush!
man crush might be an understatement. i think steph may want to think of preemptive restraining order.
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It gets to the point where you (posters who believe MU is better with Dom than Steph Curry) are so wrong, it literally is not worth it anymore to continue. I think I have reached that point.
By the way, any of you guys want to get into a NCAA tournament pool. You are exactly the kind of people that pick MU to win it all every year, should be easy money.
You're like the kid that takes his ball and storms home to his mommy just because you didn't get your way.
Instead of continuing a discussion with a counterpoint or evidence, you claim that everyone else is an idiot and that arguing with them is pointless. It's a big waste of words when you could have just as easily typed, "whatever" or "no u."
Opinions are just that. Claiming that someone else's opinion is patently incorrect without evidence that proves otherwise is usually a tell that you're either arguing for the sake of arguing, or you're a little brat that's used to getting his way and when he doesn't he storms off. This forum may be filled with fans, but the people also tend to be relatively intelligent (save a few poor souls). If you want to prove a point in the future it would help if you came with a level head and posted facts to bolster your argument. Attempts to tear down someone else's arguments with insults to their intelligence and bravado are a crutch for the weak minded.
Again, I'm not trying to say that you're wrong in your arguments. I'm just trying to point out that there are more efficient and respectable ways to prove your point. That being said; this is the Internet and you could be a 13 year old for all I know, so keep on doing whatever makes me happy. I'm just trying to pass the time at work :p
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You need to see my point. To a point, "facts" and "evidence" mean absolutely nothing to some people. The only "facts" I get in rebuttal yo my arguement is:
A: Curry plays against worse competition
B: DJ has a better assist to turnover
C: Curry only scores because he shoots too much and his percentage isn't great
My direct responses were as follows
A: He lits up the very best team in the country when he plays them. 44 against OKLA and NC State. 30+ average in the NCAA's last year.
B: I concede that point, and counter argue that the other statistics that Curry dwarfs DJ in overcome 1 more assist/TO per game. Also, Dom has 3 future NBA players to pass to.
C: Curry plays every game with 5 guys trying to stop him and only him. Yet, he overcomes that EVERY game and shoots better than DJ, who is the 4th scoring option on his team. DJ's shots are either wide open 3's, layups off of a nice drive, or some sort of combination of unnecessary runners/forced 15 footers.
If you want to talk about facts, lets talk about these. Lets talk about Curry leading a group of nobodys to the elite 8. Or the fact that he almost triples DJ's scoring. Keep telling me 1 assts/TO per game nullifies 19 points per game. When you say that, I become ignorant and refuse to talk about facts.
And for the record, the only reason I talk about Curry is because I gave a list of 11 PG's better than DJ and for WHATEVER reasons, the board felt the need to start at the TOP with the ebst PG and start arguing. This started out arguing that DJ was better than TY Lawson, but when a "fact" was thrown out that Lawson acutally shoots much better than DJ, that argument stopped. Funny how a DJ Truther prviously claimed Lawson shoots worse. God I love your "facts?
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Listen son...you need to go back and re-read what I have been saying the entire thread.
DJ is a better *point guard* than Curry is. That is all I have ever stated. Curry may very well be a better overall player. Curry may well have a better NBA career. But if I am picking a college *point guard* to lead my team, I'm sticking with DJ. He turns the ball over less, he is a great defender, and he's done it for three years at the highest level.
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by page 3 you would think that there would just be an agreement to disagree...
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Geeze this is out of hand. Both players have very different roles for very different teams. Curry is supposed to score, and he does. DJ is supposed to run the offense and facilitate the game not only for himself but for the other players on the court. For Curry, his most important stat is points. For DJ, it may well be Assists/ turnovers. Different players, different roles, different teams. Both very good at what they do.
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If you want to talk about facts, lets talk about these. Lets talk about Curry leading a group of nobodys to the elite 8. Or the fact that he almost triples DJ's scoring. Keep telling me 1 assts/TO per game nullifies 19 points per game. When you say that, I become ignorant and refuse to talk about facts.
And for the record, the only reason I talk about Curry is because I gave a list of 11 PG's better than DJ and for WHATEVER reasons, the board felt the need to start at the TOP with the ebst PG and start arguing. This started out arguing that DJ was better than TY Lawson, but when a "fact" was thrown out that Lawson acutally shoots much better than DJ, that argument stopped. Funny how a DJ Truther prviously claimed Lawson shoots worse. God I love your "facts?
I wasn't trying to say that you didn't use any facts. I'm trying to explain that when you surround your facts with opinions and bravado that it significantly cheapens your logical argument.
"DJ Truther?" Really? Take your impassioned ranting elsewhere and treat people with respect.
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I am messing with you. I mean, I truly believe 100% what I say - I just like to me more jovial about it. Admit it....DJ Truther was pretty funny.
Quick response to the poster just above who said you cant compare apples (DJ) and oranges (Curry) because they have different roles, being a scorer and a more "true" assist/PG man. Well Curry actually averages more assists and steals, so he does pretty decent outside of his "role". It would be more truthful to say his role is to "do everything".
In response to Skanasaurus - I will concede your point. DJ is a better defender and assist/TO guy. Yes. In my opinion, you - and other posters on this board - have formulated your opinion of what a "great" point guard is around what you have seen our great point guard doing the last 3 years, dishing and playing D. It is great what you he has done and I am thankful he played here, but there is more to be desired from - what you call - a top 3 PG in the country.
Look at the past Cousy award winners. DJ Augustin, Acie Law, Dee Brown, Raymond Felton, Jameer Nelson....would you describe these guys as being strictly assist/TO guys and defensive stoppers? No, they bring an extra wrinkle to the game that puts them above, their scoring ability. They had it, CP3 and Deron Williams have it, these are the greatest model of great point guards. I think the torch was passed this year in the Olympics, when Jason Kidd was laughably put on the team (just assist guy) but CP3 and Deron were the true PG's.
Like I said, I respect your point but you need to understand that a great point guard does more than get assists and not turn the ball over. I mean, 5.4 assists isn't ridiculously high, his strength is the assists/TO stat is his low turnovers, which is the first thing you ask for in a PG, not the only thing.
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I am messing with you. I mean, I truly believe 100% what I say - I just like to me more jovial about it. Admit it....DJ Truther was pretty funny.
It's the internet. When you have a presupposition that someone's being a jerk, you read their posts like they're being a jerk intentionally. If you were trying to be lighthearted, then yes it was funny :P I suppose that I read a few too many political forums where calling someone a "truther" is a very serious personal attack on one's character, lol.
Nice post btw. I may not agree with you 100%, but without the extracurricular jabs it's much easier to see your point clearly :)
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extracurricular jabs is what message boards are built on! haha
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and I would like to reiterate, I love DJ and thank god he chose to play her. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him play and we would not be where we are without him. I wish him all the luck.
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I wasn't saying you can't compare them at all. I was saying they both do what their teams need them to do. Stop projecting stupid notions on me.
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I personally think what you say is a "stupid notion" so I am sorry that I got it confused.
DJ plays his "role" because that is all that he can do.
Curry plays DJ's role (more assits per game with worse teammates-albeit more TO's- and more steals if you want to talk about defense) and he plays his own, which is 30 ppg.
DJ is not playing a "role" he is doing what he is capable of doing. His skill set does not allow him to do anything more than he is currently doing. He is not a good enough finisher or shooter to score more points per game. When you use the term "role" as in "playing his role" than you hint that the player can do things other than what he is doing, but for the betterment of the team, he narrows it down to only a couple of the best things. Take Jimmy Butler, he was a scorer in Juco - now he plays within his role. We have seen flashes of his ability to score, but he helps the team more by playing his role.
Dom cannot do anymore than he does. When he tries to do more than dish and facilitate he goes 1-9 from 3's. His game is dictated by his limitations. Steph Curry has the same "role" as James does, they both hand out assists and run the offense. Curry is just able to do it as good, and more.
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Curry is just able to do it as good, and more.
With an assist to turnover ratio of 1.5/1 for a point guard he might as well be playing for the other team. As a PG is tasked with touching the ball every possession, like a quarterback, it would be counterproductive to give that ball to someone that has such an abysmal assist to turnover ratio.
Curry isn't a PG. He's their entire offense.
There's an argument to be made saying that if he were on a better team that he'd maybe get more assists and facilitate the offense. But he's not. I mean, even Luke Harangody has a 1.26/1 assist to turnover ratio. Why not give him the Cousy award? He's as much of a PG as Curry is.
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haha cute stat. Gody is a sure a magician with the rock.
Does he bring the ball up? yes
Does he run the offense? yes
Both Acie Law and Jameer Nelson had a/t ratios under 2. Nelson's was like 1.6. Oh yeah, they won the award.
Counterpoint: Curry is a PG, a PG that scores at will.
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haha cute stat. Gody is a sure a magician with the rock.
Does he bring the ball up? yes
Does he run the offense? yes
Both Acie Law and Jameer Nelson had a/t ratios under 2. Nelson's was like 1.6. Oh yeah, they won the award.
Counterpoint: Curry is a PG, a PG that scores at will.
I think Marcus Jackson got robbed from the award then since he brought the ball up and ran the offense. Must have been a PG.
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I don't know who Marcus Johnson is, so I am not going to touch that. If he brings the ball up the court, and he starts the offense (all game/when you are in the game), then yes. he is the point guard. I learned that in 7th grade basketball.
Do we really want to get into what a point guard is? Is Dominic James the only PG in the NCAA? I mean if you want to get technical, DJ plays the 2 when Acker comes in.
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I don't know who Marcus Johnson is, so I am not going to touch that. If he brings the ball up the court, and he starts the offense (all game/when you are in the game), then yes. he is the point guard. I learned that in 7th grade basketball.
Do we really want to get into what a point guard is? Is Dominic James the only PG in the NCAA? I mean if you want to get technical, DJ plays the 2 when Acker comes in.
Then YOU are not a true MU fan. MJax was MU's point-center after Travis got hurt his senior year, 04-05. That year he had an A/T ration of 1.4. He was a decent bench contributor who played very well at JUCO before coming to MU in 2003.
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hey you may want to check, but I think your panties are officially bundled.
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edited: none of this is productive.
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Im sure you just rattled that 1.4 ratio off from memory right? Wow you are so smart. I am genuinely dazzled.
Give me a break. Like a lot of your other 106 douches I dont claim to be a Warrior, or a Diener lover. I love Big East ball. I love Dom. I love Wes. Guess what? Next year, Ill love Jeronne and Junior.
I didn't grow up around here. I did things in high school like, I dunno....chase girls and play my own sports. I didn't pretend to be a fan of a school in a city I had never been to. I apologize if my fandom for MU bball was not as great as yours - when we were both in 3rd grade or 10th grade for that matter. Right now, I am just as big of a MU fan that you are. Shame on you are your unfounded elistism.
By the way, I know you are the douchey kid with the fro and the sunglasses. Everyone behind the front row hates you. When you turn around and try to start a cheer we laugh at you. By we, I mean everyone. Please, do not turn around and stomp your feet. I am trying to watch the game, and the relection from your aviators is very distracting.
All 106ers think they are the greatest MU fans of all time because they spend 6 hours outside in Wisconsin winter to get "good" seats. I saw "good" because....ummmm let see....the basket is in the way? I've been down there, the seats suck. 106 front rowers love have the identity of "the ultimate fan" 0 they love the face time. Excuse me if I forget to bow
Cool to see the hate still exists at Marquette.
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Im sure you just rattled that 1.4 ratio off from memory right? Wow you are so smart. I am genuinely dazzled.
Give me a break. Like a lot of your other 106 douches I dont claim to be a Warrior, or a Diener lover. I love Big East ball. I love Dom. I love Wes. Guess what? Next year, Ill love Jeronne and Junior.
I didn't grow up around here. I did things in high school like, I dunno....chase girls and play my own sports. I didn't pretend to be a fan of a school in a city I had never been to. I apologize if my fandom for MU bball was not as great as yours - when we were both in 3rd grade or 10th grade for that matter. Right now, I am just as big of a MU fan that you are. Shame on you are your unfounded elistism.
By the way, I know you are the douchey kid with the fro and the sunglasses. Everyone behind the front row hates you. When you turn around and try to start a cheer we laugh at you. By we, I mean everyone. Please, do not turn around and stomp your feet. I am trying to watch the game, and the relection from your aviators is very distracting.
All 106ers think they are the greatest MU fans of all time because they spend 6 hours outside in Wisconsin winter to get "good" seats. I saw "good" because....ummmm let see....the basket is in the way? I've been down there, the seats suck. 106 front rowers love have the identity of "the ultimate fan" 0 they love the face time. Excuse me if I forget to bow
Are you just bitter that after you graduate this year the job market is in the tank and you will have to move home??
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edited: none of this is productive.
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Im sure you just rattled that 1.4 ratio off from memory right? Wow you are so smart. I am genuinely dazzled.
Give me a break. Like a lot of your other 106 douches I dont claim to be a Warrior, or a Diener lover. I love Big East ball. I love Dom. I love Wes. Guess what? Next year, Ill love Jeronne and Junior.
I didn't grow up around here. I did things in high school like, I dunno....chase girls and play my own sports. I didn't pretend to be a fan of a school in a city I had never been to. I apologize if my fandom for MU bball was not as great as yours - when we were both in 3rd grade or 10th grade for that matter. Right now, I am just as big of a MU fan that you are. Shame on you are your unfounded elistism.
By the way, I know you are the douchey kid with the fro and the sunglasses. Everyone behind the front row hates you. When you turn around and try to start a cheer we laugh at you. By we, I mean everyone. Please, do not turn around and stomp your feet. I am trying to watch the game, and the relection from your aviators is very distracting.
All 106ers think they are the greatest MU fans of all time because they spend 6 hours outside in Wisconsin winter to get "good" seats. I saw "good" because....ummmm let see....the basket is in the way? I've been down there, the seats suck. 106 front rowers love have the identity of "the ultimate fan" 0 they love the face time. Excuse me if I forget to bow
Are you bitter? You sound bitter.
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If you're offering.... I could use a hug.
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By the way, I know you are the douchey kid with the fro and the sunglasses. Everyone behind the front row hates you. When you turn around and try to start a cheer we laugh at you. By we, I mean everyone. Please, do not turn around and stomp your feet. I am trying to watch the game, and the relection from your aviators is very distracting.
All 106ers think they are the greatest MU fans of all time because they spend 6 hours outside in Wisconsin winter to get "good" seats. I saw "good" because....ummmm let see....the basket is in the way? I've been down there, the seats suck. 106 front rowers love have the identity of "the ultimate fan" 0 they love the face time. Excuse me if I forget to bow
Actually these are personal attacks. I just asked a question if you are bitter because you will have to move home because you won't be able to find a job.
But after thinking it over, I don't think you are bitter, I imagine you are just a privileged, collar-popped, uber-douche who thinks his crap doesn't stink. In other words this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLpx_yioYik
So you and your "cool" friends keep up this awesome attitude, it will take you places.
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I welcome personal attacks. You thinking I'm an A-hole is better than most of the nonsense on this thread.
Dude
We get it. You have priorities other than basketball. Cool.
Why do you spend so much time on this site?
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Not so much any longer. Maybe next season.
Sorry I didn't notice this guy earlier; someone brought it to our attention.
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I was simply referencing MJax's a/to ratio because the stat was brought up earlier. Also, haven't had the aviators since I buzzed the fro off either. The foot stomping makes a helluva lot of noise, especially when the rest of the students aren't making any noise. Glad you speak for everyone. I care so much what you and everyone else in the student section thinks.