If I may take William Shatner's line from his sketch regarding Trekkies and apply it to all you Crean haters out there...
Get a life will you people? I mean...he was just a g.damned basketball coach. Move on. Get over it. Some of you continue to act like little girls that didn't get asked to the dance.
Please focus on MU and stop spending time worrying about what players that turned MU down are doing. Who friggin' cares.
Thank you for my rant.
how is the israeli national team doing these days niv?
While I somewhat agree with you I think almost everyone can't help but check stats of Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams. I mean doesn't it make sense for us to check progress of commits we had? I can't imagine you're not the least bit curious. As far as Crean, the whole "it's Indiana" thing is kind of old now, but I can't help but smile after Indiana gives up their big lead to Michigan today and loss :D
Quite honestly I don't care what Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams are doing. The only way I hear about them are on here or if a friend of mine who does care texts me and says ____ is kicking ass, and I basically say I don't care. Or if they are playing on ESPN and there's nothing better on, then I'll watch it, but not for them. I care more about how bad Indiana is, and that makes me laugh a little bit.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 08, 2009, 12:59:18 AM
Quite honestly I don't care what Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams are doing. The only way I hear about them are on here or if a friend of mine who does care texts me and says ____ is kicking ass, and I basically say I don't care. Or if they are playing on ESPN and there's nothing better on, then I'll watch it, but not for them. I care more about how bad Indiana is, and that makes me laugh a little bit.
Totally.
(http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/ab45863a-aa35-47cc-9887-c0bc51ad2660.jpg)
Ahaha awesome picture.
Niv,
Couldn't stand you as a playa.
Agree that I could care less what prospects that didn't come here do or former coaches for that matter. The people that do are probably the same ones that former girlfriends have to get restraining orders against.... :o
Do people not have a problem with Tommy Naismith reaching out to Erik Williams and attempting to sway his allegiance from MU to IU. You simply do not do that. A person with character, tells his players to stay where they are and do not call him. Numerous coaches have over the years done that. Kevin Oneill called his incoming recruits and told them to attend MU and the would not be allowed to follow him to Tenn., he told the current Mu players the same. Douchebag attempts to recruit Mu players and commits, that alone, forget the timing of his announcement, simply going back and trying to steal players is such a scumbag move. I have far less of a problem with the players finding out thru ESPN as bad as that is.
For those who don't like the rips on Turtlehead, here's an idea, don't read them. Some of us knew he was a slippery used car salesman for years and are thrilled he's no longer employed by the University.
only a warrior,
I'll have you know that I've put on 15 lbs and have worked on my three-point shot some more. I can consistently knock down about 22-27% now from deep.
Here's an idea for those of you that didn't like him, stop posting about him. Nearly every comment out of some poster's mouths are a rip/dig at Crean. Some of us knew he was the second (third at worst) best coach in MU's history and didn't care about all of the other garbage (not kissing up to certain alums, how he dressed, what he drank) as long as he won and his players were good kids who graduated. Nobody will be thrilled he's no longer employed by the university if MU isn't as good of a team as it was under the "slippery used car salesman."
Cream never had a team at 14-2 and 3-0
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 08, 2009, 09:37:33 AM
Do people not have a problem with Tommy Naismith reaching out to Erik Williams and attempting to sway his allegiance from MU to IU. You simply do not do that. A person with character, tells his players to stay where they are and do not call him. Numerous coaches have over the years done that. Kevin Oneill called his incoming recruits and told them to attend MU and the would not be allowed to follow him to Tenn., he told the current Mu players the same. Douchebag attempts to recruit Mu players and commits, that alone, forget the timing of his announcement, simply going back and trying to steal players is such a scumbag move. I have far less of a problem with the players finding out thru ESPN as bad as that is.
Yeah. Just terrible for a program to hire a guy, then recruit players that had committed to another team. That's precisely why Buzz Williams told Joe Fulce to stick with UNO when he was hired as MU's assistant.
Rick Majerus didnt' just ask, but actually took Roman Mueller with him to Ball State. Is he a scumbag as well?
This is just another example of your derangement with Crean--for which you STILL haven't explained. Unfortunately, you neither put up NOR shut up.
You now rip Crean for something that is matter-of-fact in college basketball, and has happened previously and subsequently at MU.
Majerus did it. Buzz did it. O'Neill did it. Yes, even as you praise O'Neill, you apparently forgot that O'Neill not only recruited an unsigned player--he recruited right off the Arizona roster to get Ron Curry to transfer.
The fact of the matter is that O'Neill knew he could land better players at Tennessee than those he left behind at MU--and he could get them to play right away--not sit out a year. He dupes you into thinking he's a great guy for not recruiting guys he didn't want.
Then, there's the obvious fact that when we hired Crean's replacement we would have EXPECTED him to have a long list of top-level recruits that he had relationships with--perhaps even verbals. Had we hired Dick Bennett, there would have been no problem--in fact we would have fully expected--that he had ins with players he was recruiting to Washington State. Ditto with Sean Miller and Xavier.
But I guess its only a scumbag move if Crean does it, right?
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 08, 2009, 11:51:40 AMBut I guess its only a scumbag move if Crean does it, right?
Yessir!
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 08, 2009, 11:51:40 AM
Yeah. Just terrible for a program to hire a guy, then recruit players that had committed to another team. That's precisely why Buzz Williams told Joe Fulce to stick with UNO when he was hired as MU's assistant.
Rick Majerus didnt' just ask, but actually took Roman Mueller with him to Ball State. Is he a scumbag as well?
This is just another example of your derangement with Crean--for which you STILL haven't explained. Unfortunately, you neither put up NOR shut up.
You now rip Crean for something that is matter-of-fact in college basketball, and has happened previously and subsequently at MU.
Majerus did it. Buzz did it. O'Neill did it. Yes, even as you praise O'Neill, you apparently forgot that O'Neill not only recruited an unsigned player--he recruited right off the Arizona roster to get Ron Curry to transfer.
The fact of the matter is that O'Neill knew he could land better players at Tennessee than those he left behind at MU--and he could get them to play right away--not sit out a year. He dupes you into thinking he's a great guy for not recruiting guys he didn't want.
Then, there's the obvious fact that when we hired Crean's replacement we would have EXPECTED him to have a long list of top-level recruits that he had relationships with--perhaps even verbals. Had we hired Dick Bennett, there would have been no problem--in fact we would have fully expected--that he had ins with players he was recruiting to Washington State. Ditto with Sean Miller and Xavier.
But I guess its only a scumbag move if Crean does it, right?
SJS, I know you hate it when the truth gets in the way of your presentation but...
KO was an assistant at Arizona
Majerus spent a year with the Bucks
Apples & Oranges.
Ive made over 1000 posts on this board. Ive also made a ton in the Superbar which doesn't count. Throughout one full day I am fully capable of being able to pay attention to Marquette and other things... such as teaching, coaching, other sports teams, and even more... including Tom Crean.
Why do we keep up on old MU players in the NBA... why do we care about Dwyane Wade, hes at friggen Miami right now... who cares, he only USE to be a MU player... just like Crean USE to be the coach... I care about past relations to the program...and ones who backstab or ditch the program without fair warning, plus attempt to take and steal players away from the program I root against.
I went to school at UW-Platteville, there is a love affair with Bo Ryan at that school (literally)... why can't they get over Bo Ryan, hes at Wisconsin now... oh wait, because he coached there... thats why
Why is your screenname of a player who played barely a season for us and then went back to his home country? Hes not with us anymore.
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on January 08, 2009, 12:26:32 PM
Ive made over 1000 posts on this board. Ive also made a ton in the Superbar which doesn't count. Throughout one full day I am fully capable of being able to pay attention to Marquette and other things... such as teaching, coaching, other sports teams, and even more... including Tom Crean.
Why do we keep up on old MU players in the NBA... why do we care about Dwyane Wade, hes at friggen Miami right now... who cares, he only USE to be a MU player... just like Crean USE to be the coach... I care about past relations to the program...and ones who backstab or ditch the program without fair warning, plus attempt to take and steal players away from the program I root against.
I went to school at UW-Platteville, there is a love affair with Bo Ryan at that school (literally)... why can't they get over Bo Ryan, hes at Wisconsin now... oh wait, because he coached there... thats why
Why is your screenname of a player who played barely a season for us and then went back to his home country? Hes not with us anymore.
Oh I back this post 100%
Quote from: jmayer1 on January 08, 2009, 10:50:41 AM
Here's an idea for those of you that didn't like him, stop posting about him. Nearly every comment out of some poster's mouths are a rip/dig at Crean.
What are message boards for then?
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on January 08, 2009, 12:25:38 PM
SJS, I know you hate it when the truth gets in the way of your presentation but...
KO was an assistant at Arizona
Majerus spent a year with the Bucks
Apples & Oranges.
Hardly.
At worst, it's like a red delicious apple versus a golden delicious apple. The distinction borders on irrelevancy.
Was Mueller a committed recruit to MU? Yes.
Is Marjeus the guy who recruited him away? Yes.
Did Majreus tell Mueller to honor his commitment to MU? Obviously Not.
Did Mueller renege on his commitment on MU to play for Majerus? Yes.
Seriously, what difference did Majerus' year off make? The player was committed to MU. Majerus recruited him away. How does a year off make anything I said untrue?
As for Curry, was he a committed recruit to Ariz? Yes.
Did O'Neill recruit him away? Yes.
Did O'Neill tell Curry that he should honor his commitment to Arizona? No.
Again, what difference does it make that O'Neill was only an Arizona assistant? He poached a player from his former team.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 08, 2009, 01:11:48 PM
Hardly.
At worst, it's like a red delicious apple versus a golden delicious apple. The distinction borders on irrelevancy.
Was Mueller a committed recruit to MU? Yes.
Is Marjeus the guy who recruited him away? Yes.
Did Majreus tell Mueller to honor his commitment to MU? Obviously Not.
Did Mueller renege on his commitment on MU to play for Majerus? Yes.
Seriously, what difference did Majerus' year off make? The player was committed to MU. Majerus recruited him away. How does a year off make anything I said untrue?
As for Curry, was he a committed recruit to Ariz? Yes.
Did O'Neill recruit him away? Yes.
Did O'Neill tell Curry that he should honor his commitment to Arizona? No.
Again, what difference does it make that O'Neill was only an Arizona assistant? He poached a player from his former team.
Huge difference.....Crean did it, therefore evil. KO, Majerus, etc do it....then it's ok.
;)
Was Lute sad to see Curry go?
Was Dukiet sad to see Mueller go?
Those were transfers that benefited both schools.
You two are great...I don't think TC is evil and hate all things associated with him, I just think he is tremendously overrated and since I spent the last 9 years being told how he was God, I'm going to spend the next 9 years debunking that.
See you in 2017.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on January 08, 2009, 01:19:08 AM
Totally.
(http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/ab45863a-aa35-47cc-9887-c0bc51ad2660.jpg)
Where's your Diet Pepsi, now, betch?!?! Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot it's in MY hand :D
BTW not anything but a coincidence, but y'all noticed pepsi just changed it's logos, right? Just Sayin'
For the record, MayorMcCheese .... I don't think MayorMcCheese ever played MU bball ;D don't be an anti-Niv-ite :D
He changed from Pepsi products to Coke products due to Coke and Indiana having a deal... I am almost positive on that
And Mayor McCheese went straight to the NBA out of high school... no need for college... his first name IS mayor for goodness sakes.
just a note, Majerus was also a classless act. Not only when he left for Ball State, but when he rescinded schollys from Terry Reason and Vic Lazzeretti. The difference is he didn't focus on self-promotion first, last, and always. TC did some nice things while at MU, and I appreciate them. Part of his success was timing. Cords' hard work got us into the Big East at the right time, Fr. Wild's commitment to the bball program, along with that of a couple of well-heeled fans, created a great facility and atmosphere into which TC could recruit. But please, no more degradation of used car salesmen!
I wonder who II's shoe sponsor is. He can't wear shoes he's not paid to wear
Quote from: augoman on January 09, 2009, 12:37:20 AM
The difference is he didn't focus on self-promotion first, last, and always.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm fond of saying..."KO & Deane could be (or are) A-holes, but they're the first to admit that. TC is an A-hole who think he's Ghandi"
I have no qualms in giving TC credit for many of the great things he did at MU, I was just always frustrated by the way he could do no wrong in so many people's eyes. He was not bigger than the school but was allowed to act that way.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on January 09, 2009, 09:12:48 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm fond of saying..."KO & Deane could be (or are) A-holes, but they're the first to admit that. TC is an A-hole who think he's Ghandi"
I have no qualms in giving TC credit for many of the great things he did at MU, I was just always frustrated by the way he could do no wrong in so many people's eyes. He was not bigger than the school but was allowed to act that way.
I hear ya, I get that.
I guess it's just a matter of perception. I don't think TC was allowed to act like he was bigger than the program (just opinion). Also, most big time programs have coaches with big personalities. When people think of Cincy, they still think of Huggins. UK is still Patino country, UNC will always be Dean's place, MU had Al. etc. etc.
I know TC had some grandiose, self-promoting ways, but I think a lot of that promotion is what helped pull MU back up to being a very good program.
I mean, in Crean's second year, he took a really mediocre team on the road to UNC and got on national television. Certainly Crean doesn't deserve all of the credit for getting this game... but I can all but guarantee you that Deane would not have been able to pull this off. Crean had a lot of connections in college hoops, and is a workaholic who was always looking for a way to promote the program (and himself).
It took a little salesmanship to get the MU fanbase excited again, to get MU in the Great Alaska shootout (the first time), to get MU a national TV game, to get Gameday to come to MU, etc. etc.
He certainly wasn't perfect, but I guess you take the good with the bad... and personally, I felt the good outweighed the bad.
Also, I do like Buzz a lot, and I think he is a good fit (provided that he can get his recruits to develop over the next few seasons)
I agree with Damon Keys Contacts. When we hired Crean, I had many doubts about him, because I do not believe we did a thorough search, and he had no real experience other than an Assistant. I did not believe we should hire a trainee and hope he proved out. And I had to read many posts blasting myself and others over the years for offering any criticism at Crean.
Crean did improve the program, but I always suspected that he was a prima donna and not a very good X and O coach. I think his track record has proven that. And afterall: It's Indiana; It's Indiana. He left!! He has proven he is a prima donna and not that good of a game coach.
Now we have Mr. Williams. One could have the same concerns about him. Not much experience, although I believe that it is greater than Crean's at time of hire. I don't know Buzz or much else about him, except he does not appear to be a prima donna. So far he appears to be a good recruiter, not yet sure about his coaching abilities. (case in point: they do not structure free throws in practice.)
The proof of his coaching ability will be to see how we fare at the end of the season, and the dance. And even more of a test will be next year, when almost all of Crean,s people are gone. I suspect a huge slip next year--we will need to see how Buzz does then.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on January 09, 2009, 09:12:48 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm fond of saying..."KO & Deane could be (or are) A-holes, but they're the first to admit that. TC is an A-hole who think he's Ghandi"
I have no qualms in giving TC credit for many of the great things he did at MU, I was just always frustrated by the way he could do no wrong in so many people's eyes. He was not bigger than the school but was allowed to act that way.
Deane, God love him, also said TC will find out how tough it is at MU. He also said MU can't go to a Final Four.
Deane, who I love, isn't Nostra Damus. ;)
Quote from: willie warrior on January 09, 2009, 10:02:29 AM
I agree with Damon Keys Contacts. When we hired Crean, I had many doubts about him, because I do not believe we did a thorough search, and he had no real experience other than an Assistant. I did not believe we should hire a trainee and hope he proved out. And I had to read many posts blasting myself and others over the years for offering any criticism at Crean.
Crean did improve the program, but I always suspected that he was a prima donna and not a very good X and O coach. I think his track record has proven that. And afterall: It's Indiana; It's Indiana. He left!! He has proven he is a prima donna and not that good of a game coach.
Now we have Mr. Williams. One could have the same concerns about him. Not much experience, although I believe that it is greater than Crean's at time of hire. I don't know Buzz or much else about him, except he does not appear to be a prima donna. So far he appears to be a good recruiter, not yet sure about his coaching abilities. (case in point: they do not structure free throws in practice.)
The proof of his coaching ability will be to see how we fare at the end of the season, and the dance. And even more of a test will be next year, when almost all of Crean,s people are gone. I suspect a huge slip next year--we will need to see how Buzz does then.
You honestly thought we didn't do a thorough search when Crean was hired? I've never seen a more thorough search to be honest with you. The candidates that were up for consideration (I was in the A.D at the time) were very solid, nationally recognized, it was an outstanding crop of young coaches that were under consideration. Michigan State was considered arguably the best program in the nation at the time and MU was tired of getting coaches from other parts of the country that would last 4 or 5 years and bolt. They wanted a midwest guy, tied to a great program, who was a very good recruiter, and would out work everyone.
That's what they got and it led MU to the 2nd best tenure in MU history bar none.
And just like many other MU coaches and coaches elsewhere....yes, he's an ahole. Just like many top executives around the world, they step on a lot of people to get where they are and they self promote. That's the reality of the world we live in. Hard to find a lot of "nice guys" at the top anymore. There are some, but the list is short.
If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?
maybe you are right and the search was thorough--as I recall it he was hired in about two weeks.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 09, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?
The same reason why Al started coaching at Belmont Abby.
You have to start somewhere.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 09, 2009, 12:01:51 PM
maybe you are right and the search was thorough--as I recall it he was hired in about two weeks.
Oh I can assure you that they were looking at Crean and others for a LONG time prior to Deane being let go.
When MU beat top 10 Cincinnati late in the year at the BC, Huggins was at Turners saying he hoped it would save Mike's job. Things were going in that direction for a long time that year. Personally, I always felt Mike deserved another year. The guy won 100 games in 5 years and deserved another year. But MU felt differently and changed directions.
Hard to argue with the results, quite frankly.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 09, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?
You're kidding, right? Why don't you ask Kevin O'Neill why he took the job after Dukiet. Why don't you ask why Al McGuire took the job.
The question I think you need to ask yourself is if MU is at the top of the heap and the program makes the coach as so many here have expoused, why after coming off three NCAA bids does MU have to settle for an in-house assistant? Why does MU have to hire hot, unproven assistant coaches in 1999 or in 1988?
When is the last time MU has hired an existing, BCS level coach to take over the program to keep it going? Anyone...anyone? I believe the answer is never.
So it works both ways. You can't say MU makes the coach on one hand and on the other hand be using the exact opposite tact for guys you don't consider "aholes".
;D
Wow...this thread's taken on a life of its own. Solid.
I'm going to work on my jumper. I have two years eligibility left.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 09, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?
Easy. He said Marquette was his dream job and as we know he only had one of those......oh wait
It's Indiana, it's Indiana; and color me gone as I am out of here like a rocket.
Some of you older guys will have to help me out, but didn't Al try to leave for the Bucks?
I am by no means defending the way Crean left, or saying the guy isn't a jerk... I'm just saying that a lot of coaches will leave a job if they think there is a better opportunity.
Now, don't get all offended and say something like "bucks are NBA, it's different".
The point I'm making is that (the majority of the time) if a coach thinks there is a better opportunity (no matter what that is), he is going to take it.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 09, 2009, 03:04:41 PM
The point I'm making is that (the majority of the time) if coach anyone thinks there is a better opportunity (no matter what that is), he is going to take it.
Fixed to give a better perspective.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 09, 2009, 03:04:41 PM
Some of you older guys will have to help me out, but didn't Al try to leave for the Bucks?
I am by no means defending the way Crean left, or saying the guy isn't a jerk... I'm just saying that a lot of coaches will leave a job if they think there is a better opportunity.
Now, don't get all offended and say something like "bucks are NBA, it's different".
The point I'm making is that (the majority of the time) if a coach thinks there is a better opportunity (no matter what that is), he is going to take it.
Who you calling old? Al was hired to be the Bucks' head coach. Buck Raynor wouldn't let him out of his MU contract and he remained the Warriors coach. This was circa 1969.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 09, 2009, 03:54:12 PM
Who you calling old? Al was hired to be the Bucks' head coach. Buck Raynor wouldn't let him out of his MU contract and he remained the Warriors coach. This was circa 1969.
Did he have to ride a dinosaur to work way back then?
(http://www.acombinationofthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/dinosaur.jpg)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 09, 2009, 03:54:12 PM
Who you calling old? Al was hired to be the Bucks' head coach. Buck Raynor wouldn't let him out of his MU contract and he remained the Warriors coach. This was circa 1969.
Ha.
Sorry for that. I'm just saying that I'm not the expert on Al McGuire. I didn't mean it to come out like "old guys".
My point still stands however. Al saw an opportunity and took it. Crean did something similar.
I'm not comparing the 2 men's character, I'm just saying that it's interesting when people crucify Crean for something similar to what Al did (Al rarely gets criticized for anything).
Maybe in 10 years people will be grilling Buzz and saying how TC did more with less. Who knows?
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on January 08, 2009, 12:26:32 PM
Ive made over 1000 posts on this board. Ive also made a ton in the Superbar which doesn't count. Throughout one full day I am fully capable of being able to pay attention to Marquette and other things... such as teaching, coaching, other sports teams, and even more... including Tom Crean.
Why do we keep up on old MU players in the NBA... why do we care about Dwyane Wade, hes at friggen Miami right now... who cares, he only USE to be a MU player... just like Crean USE to be the coach... I care about past relations to the program...and ones who backstab or ditch the program without fair warning, plus attempt to take and steal players away from the program I root against.
I went to school at UW-Platteville, there is a love affair with Bo Ryan at that school (literally)... why can't they get over Bo Ryan, hes at Wisconsin now... oh wait, because he coached there... thats why
Why is your screenname of a player who played barely a season for us and then went back to his home country? Hes not with us anymore.
Really? I love Dwyane Wade. He's arguably the greatest thing ever to happen to Marquette. I watch every Heat game, own a Wade jersey, a t-shirt jersey, a 2006 NBA champions shirt, and Heat shorts. If he goes elsewhere, I will become a big of that team.
I don't like most of the players on the Celtics, but I cheered for them in the finals because of Doc. I guess we live contrasting lifestyles, Mayor.
Now...those people that became Jets fans because of Favre, THAT'S a whole different issue. That's particularly awful. Unless they are southern miss fans :)
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 09, 2009, 04:16:09 PM
Did he have to ride a dinosaur to work way back then?
Jesus had a pet dinosaur? Sweet!
Quote from: Badgerhater920 on January 09, 2009, 04:48:48 PM
Really? I love Dwyane Wade. He's arguably the greatest thing ever to happen to Marquette. I watch every Heat game, own a Wade jersey, a t-shirt jersey, a 2006 NBA champions shirt, and Heat shorts. If he goes elsewhere, I will become a big of that team.
I don't like most of the players on the Celtics, but I cheered for them in the finals because of Doc. I guess we live contrasting lifestyles, Mayor.
Now...those people that became Jets fans because of Favre, THAT'S a whole different issue. That's particularly awful. Unless they are southern miss fans :)
Swing and a miss on figuring out what I was saying...
For a hint... I agree with you, I was attacking what Niv said about why we still talk about Crean due to him being gone... so I was using other examples of former MU players/coaches to show Crean isn't the only one...
I'll put the ball back on the tee so you can take another whack at it ;D
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on January 09, 2009, 09:58:44 PM
Swing and a miss on figuring out what I was saying...
For a hint... I agree with you, I was attacking what Niv said about why we still talk about Crean due to him being gone... so I was using other examples of former MU players/coaches to show Crean isn't the only one...
I'll put the ball back on the tee so you can take another whack at it ;D
Welp, I'm smart.