Scholarship table
OK gang, I'll make it easy:1) Guys that are "automatics" as the best ever Butch Lee Bo Ellis Maurice Lucas Dwyane Wade2) Guys that definitely are debated anytime the question arises as to the best ever Don Kojis George Thompson Dean Meminger Jim Chones Earl Tatum Jeral McNeal Glenn Rivers3) Guys who get mentioned, especially by anyone who became an MU fan after 1980: Jim McIllivane Jerome Whitehead Tony Smith Wes Matthews Jae Crowder Steve Novak Bernard Toone 4) Guys that I like but won't get more than a mention Bob Lackey Markus Howard I'm sure I'm leaving some folks off, but this is the break down of how I would see our history. If Sam hadn't transferred, I'd have him in Group 4 too.
Jimmy Butler
#24#31#22#14#3Dat iz all, hey?
Watched 'em both for four years and don't see the argument that McIlvaine was better in college than Damon Key. Not saying Key needs to be on this list, but if Key isn't, McIlvaine shouldn't be.
If you're putting a roster together, Howard is an obvious pick, at least if you're playing with a three point line. He'd come off the bench, but there's no debate he would be on the team. He's one of the best three point shooters in D1 history. He is a 100% guarantee on the roster.
TAMUI do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.
I really struggled limiting it to 15. Howard deserves to be there. But I also wanted to add Jimmy Mac for his rim protection, Tony Miller deserved consideration, so does Diener, I'm a huge Hutch fan, Larry McNeill should probably be in the conversation. Not easy decisions. For me, Howard didn't make the cut because I was also considering pro success and Howard simply hasn't had time to build that. Maybe in a few years I'll bump Tatum or Rivers for Howard.
I like what dgies and Brew have brought to this thread. TAMU, why is it important to you to include NBA success in your evaluations? Seems that this should be limited to their performances at Marquette. For a recent example, (and admittedly stretching things quite a bit by going outside of MU) if Miles Powell had been a MU player rather than SH, why would his lack of NBA success be reason to mark down his value? Just asking, not spoiling for a fight.
1977 NCAA Champions1970 NIT ChampionsThere is your argument. Please note that the NIT back then was a bigger deal than it is today. There were only 24 teams in the NCAA back then. These are the two biggest moments in Marquette Athletic history.Brother Snoop, the Captain of the "all Cool" Team would be Bob Lackey, pure and simple. My favorite Warrior of all time.
I guess Neary should be ranked ahead of Wade, too. 1977 NCAA Champion.And while we're at it, Trent Dilfer obviously was a better QB than Fouts or Marino.
If it's really a roster, I think a number of great players should probably be bypassed for guys like Howard, Novak, and McIlvaine. I'm rethinking this a bit. Ultimately, you probably need an 8-deep main roster with specialists around them PG: MemingerSG: WadeSF: LeePF: EllisC: ChonesFor my main bench, I want a guard, wing, and big that can all play 2-3 positions. I take Miller over some other guards because I want a true floor general.Guard: MillerWing: TatumBig: LucasFor the last 7 spots, I want specialists. The situational players that won't necessarily get in much, but are the best there is at what they do.Microwave scorer: ThompsonShooters: Howard, NovakRim protection: McIlvaineRebounder: KojisGlue guys: Crowder, ButlerAre there better overall players than some of these? Yes. But in terms of meeting their role, I think this covers every key scenario. You need a stop? Bring in Mac and Jimmy. Down big and need to come back? Tag George and Markus. Gotta secure a tough rebound? It's Don and Jae.While there are better players, is there anyone that will keep Wade, Bo, or Butch from being 30-35 mpg guys? No. So best to figure out who can best fit the role when those guys come out rather than just making an all-star team, half of which will never play.
Top All-Time MU in the NBADwyane Wade -- By far the bestMaurice Lucas -- The EnforcerWes Matthews -- Good journeyman in the NBA, great MU PlayerJimmy Butler -- Who would have thought it when he was at MU?Jae Crowder -- Slight tilt toward Jae because he is more modern; wanted to consider Chones here.In the DiscussionJim Chones -- Could flip with Jae and I'd be just as happy.Dean Meminger -- Great guard with the Knicks, couldn't shoot to save his life.Doc Rivers -- Probably better in the NBA than in college.Steve Novak -- 14 years in the Show speaks for itself.Markus Howard -- We'll see how this one works out.Tony Smith -- Anyone who backed up Magic and had an engineering degree has to be special.
Be prepared for 800 "then they need to learn their history" replies.Like all fan bases......folks love to idolize the good ole daysEdit to add: any list like this is going to have either 51% like or hate it and it'll drive discussion in the off season. The logic behind the picks seems reasonable
So you think people expecting All-American players to be on the list is somewhat unreasonable?