D Wilson. Praise and what?

[4everwarriors]

The point guard isn't solid when he has more turnovers than assists, is a sub 50% ft shoota, and is an offensive liability whereby the defense doesn't respect him.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Both ends my friend.  Basketball is played on both ends.

Agreed! That's why it's painful to watch Derrick...Fine on defense, not so much on offense. He was solid yesterday though...gotta give him a little credit.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Since Buzz seems uber reluctant to send Derrick to the bench for 20+ minutes a game - it's Buzz's problem to continue to try to fix.  He's tried a number of "adjustments" already - none of which work.  Buzz's stubbornness at this point is costing the team.  You simply CANNOT have your starting back court, being the team's two WORST net negative contributors to the team, who also get the most, and 2nd most minutes.

Until the "adjustment" is made to send Derrick and Jake to the bench for 20+ minutes a game - nothing is going to change.  We are playing 5 on 4 with Derrick out there.  Buzz knows it, has said it, yet refuses to do anything about it.  It isn't Derrick's fault - it's not like he's going to say sorry Buzz - bench me for 20 minutes per game.  Taking a time out in the middle of a run as you suggest, isn't going to fix the problem.  We've had 18 games to analyze the results under Derrick's direction - we are 10-8 with NO good wins.

You fail to answer the question. 

Somehow Derrick was good enough, and the team good enough with him running the show, to build a 12 point lead on the road.  Another poster said that Butler made some adjustments in how they were guarding Gardner.  What did Buzz do to counter those adjustments?  Is your answer that he should have sent Derrick to the bench after he, and the team, played well enough to that point to have a 12 point lead? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think if Dawson plays 40 minutes he absolutely gets Derricks stats from yesterday. Let's keep in context that while a solid game for Derrick yesterday, it was nothing earth shattering. You really don't think Dawson could get 13 pts and 3 assists in 40 minutes? he might not be able to match the 5 to's though  

Possibly, but Dunham would have gone off for thirty. I'll agree that Derrick is a problem for our team, but I also hold that there isn't a better option at this point. Derrick had a great game yesterday, I"m not sure why we are crucifying him for this game

[GooooMarquette]

Part of the reason our shooters can't shoot is that they are never left alone.  Jake Thomas is never, ever left alone.  His man never doubles elsewhere because Derrick's man can always do it.  Watch games for other teams.  Heck watch us play defense.  Sometimes we leave the other team's best shooter to help in the lane.  That never happens for Jake because his man is instructed to never leave him under any circumstances because the help always comes from Derrick's man and Derrick doesn't make the defense pay.  It is even hard for us to screen for Jake because Derrick doesn't look inside and you have to screen two defenders to get Jake open.

That might have been true earlier in the season, but have you watched the last couple of games?  Have you noticed that when Derrick is left open, he either takes a midrange shot (and is starting to make them), or drives to the hoop for a layup?  The bottom line is that we are no longer "playing 4 on 5" as some posters claim.  Derrick is forcing defenders to notice him, and someone certainly has to defend him when he takes it to the hole.

And despite this, during the very two games where Derrick is making changes to force his defender to keep track of and defend him, Jake is 1-11 on threes.  You can't blame that on the "4 on 5" argument anymore.

Jake is a streaky shooter who can either shoot us into games (ASU) or shoot us out of them (yesterday).  Derrick, for all his flaws, is consistently our best defender...and has been steadily improving his offense the past few games.  Let me ask you this - can you name one other player in our regular rotation whose offensive game has improved in the last week or two?  If not, it might be time to blame someone other than Derrick.

[PGsHeroes32]

Jesus...Derrick is MU's most consistent player today and we have a handful of threads crucifying him.  Seriously, what the f*ck do you want from him?

He's making Vander's whipping boy status look mild in comparison.

While Derrick and Davante were the only players that even had bright stretches in this game.. If you are trying to say he was anything other than awful the last 12 or so minutes you are legitimately insane.

I do agree that these multiple threads after a game like yesterdays are out of line seeing as everyone else other than Davante and Derrick sucked something awful for 40 minutes, Derrick was a huge part of us being terrible in those last 12 minutes.

[willie warrior]

That might have been true earlier in the season, but have you watched the last couple of games?  Have you noticed that when Derrick is left open, he either takes a midrange shot (and is starting to make them), or drives to the hoop for a layup?  The bottom line is that we are no longer "playing 4 on 5" as some posters claim.  Derrick is forcing defenders to notice him, and someone certainly has to defend him when he takes it to the hole.

And despite this, during the very two games where Derrick is making changes to force his defender to keep track of and defend him, Jake is 1-11 on threes.  You can't blame that on the "4 on 5" argument anymore.

Jake is a streaky shooter who can either shoot us into games (ASU) or shoot us out of them (yesterday).  Derrick, for all his flaws, is consistently our best defender...and has been steadily improving his offense the past few games.  Let me ask you this - can you name one other player in our regular rotation whose offensive game has improved in the last week or two?  If not, it might be time to blame someone other than Derrick.

Exactly how are defenders noticing Derrick? Whenever he was on the perimeter and the ball in his hands, his defender is at least 8 feet off him, stifling the middle. The only game that did not happen was the one in which Ox had 28 points--was that DePaul? The blue print to kick our ass is already diagrammed, and Derrick is the key to that blueprint.

[willie warrior]

Heard that Buzz has been getting tweets from Cadougan, "Miss me yet?"

[avid1010]

Both ends my friend.  Basketball is played on both ends.  Derrick held Butler's leading scorer down for about 3/4 of that game.

Too bad that Dawson couldn't step up to provide adequate back up minutes as he had in previous games.

thanks for giving me the dumbest post of the year.  takes some arrogance on your part.  i'm guessing i've played and coached at a higher level than you, and i'm sure i've been to more mu practices than you have.  that said, i don't float around on a message board calling serious posters dumb.  i thought i'd watch the game one more time just to really focus in on how butler guarded d. wilson and where his defender was on the court.  they didn't front DG at all times, and never fronted him when he was on the same side as d. wilson.  d. wilson's man had his foot in the lane the majority time on defense (they would front DG when he was on the strong side and d. wilson was on the weak side)...as d. wilson's guy could double from behind. made it impossible to get DG the ball without a double and really messed with any natural driving lanes.  i've supported buzz through and through, and i always did so by saying that i was only qualified to judge him on wins and losses.  in keeping with that thought, i don't think pointing to the fact that he plays d. wilson means much.  they're not winning.  he's shooting 38% for the year, 47% from the FT line, and 9% from the 3pt line. 

so tell me again how great it is to have a pg that the other team plays 8ft off of at all times, shoots less than 50% on lay-ups, can't hit an open shot to save his life, and can't be trusted with the ball at the end of the game, not because he doesn't have a decent handle, but because he shoots under 50% from the FT line.  the game is played on both side of the court, and if you would have *watched* (sorry i had to) the game you would realize our issue wasn't team defense...it was team offense. 

d. wilson is far from the only person that deserves blame, but it's not as one sided as you seem to *know*.

[GGGG]

Since you are such an expert what exactly would you do at point then???

[keefe]

thanks for giving me the dumbest post of the year.  takes some arrogance on your part.  i'm guessing i've played and coached at a higher level than you, and i'm sure i've been to more mu practices than you have.  that said, i don't float around on a message board calling serious posters dumb. 
d. wilson is far from the only person that deserves blame, but it's not as one sided as you seem to *know*.

HOW DARE YOU CHALLENGE "The SULTAN!"  He is the Expert of the Board and has earned the privilege, nay RIGHT, to call people Dumb and Stupid! You forget your place, Avid.

[avid1010]

Since you are such an expert what exactly would you do at point then???

i don't consider myself anything close to an expert...just thought i'd defend myself against your "dumbest post ever" comment that pissed me off a bit, as you were the one acting like an expert.  

bottom line, he can't create off the dribble, he can't make an open shot, he can't shoot FT's, and he makes less than 50% of his lay-ups.  yesterday it was obvious the word was to foul him if he got to the rim, which is about as good as a turnover.  he can bring the ball up the court with a good handle, and his defense is solid.  

so...dawson gets 20 mpg (with DG in the game), d. wilson gets 20 mpg (when otule is in)...20 minutes is situational, but end of game with a close score it has to be DG, j. wilson, j. thomas, t. mayo, and either anderson, j. johnson, or burton depending on the match-up.  

worst case scenario...dawson gets better with experience and MU continues to lose.  i'm not seeing growth from d. wilson...maybe i'm giving up too fast.  show me one team that sticks with a pg who shoots 38% from the field, 48% from the FT line, 9% from the 3pt line, and gets 3.8 dimes a game. 

[MerrittsMustache]

bottom line, he can't create off the dribble, he can't make an open shot, he can't shoot FT's, and he makes less than 50% of his lay-ups.  yesterday it was obvious the word was to foul him if he got to the rim, which is about as good as a turnover.  he can bring the ball up the court with a good handle, and his defense is solid. 

Really?! The fact that he got to the rim at least 10 times and shot only 3 FTs would indicate that was not at all the strategy.

[MerrittsMustache]

Let's take a step back and put things in perspective. When last season ended, the '13-'14 PG position appeared to be in pretty good shape. Duane Wilson was likely to see around 20 minutes a game, Blue would see 10-15 (more if Duane wasn't ready), and Derrick would get his customary 10-12, primarily to give Duane or Blue a quick breather before TV timeouts, and Dawson would play in garbage time. With Blue leaving and Duane getting hurt, Buzz was left with his third and fourth string PGs for the season. Let me reiterate, for all intents and purposes, Buzz planned on Derrick Wilson being the third-string PG this season. As it was, Blue left, Duane was injured and the third-stringer became the starter with a garbage time frosh as his only true back-up. Despite this, many MU fans are quick to jump all over Derrick and Buzz for not being up to the challenge and for not making the proper adjustments while pining for more PT from a guy who was going to be just above the walk-on on the depth chart. The fact of the matter is that there's only so much a coach can do when he's down to his third and fourth string options and there's only so much that should reasonably be expected from a back-up's back-up when he's forced to play a bulk of the minutes. There's no Matt Flynn on the waiver wire for this team to pick-up so they have to go with what's on the roster. Ideally, a player who was expected to be in more of a "starring role" (Jamil, Mayo, DG specifically) would have stepped up to help minimize the negative impact that comes from having a third-stringer forced into a starting role. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, Derrick's limitations are in full view and the team is struggling.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Really?! The fact that he got to the rim at least 10 times and shot only 3 FTs would indicate that was not at all the strategy.

Seem to remember the last few games most of his lay ups were cleanly blocked or missed

[keefe]

Seem to remember the last few games most of his lay ups were cleanly blocked or missed

Why let facts obscure a perfectly wonderful narrative? Derrick Wilson represents zero threat. Teams are fine with him getting 10 points some games because that's better than Gardner getting 25 every night. And for each of his drives to the hoop there is an excellent chance he will miss it, lose the ball, or get blocked. If he's fouled he might make one.

We are not competitive with the current starting line-up. The argument by some of this board's self appointed experts seems to be that Derrick Wilson sucks less than the other starters. Losing is losing.

[MerrittsMustache]

Why let facts obscure a perfectly wonderful narrative? Derrick Wilson represents zero threat. Teams are fine with him getting 10 points some games because that's better than Gardner getting 25 every night. And for each of his drives to the hoop there is an excellent chance he will miss it, lose the ball, or get blocked. If he's fouled he might make one.

We are not competitive with the current starting line-up. The argument by some of this board's self appointed experts seems to be that Derrick Wilson sucks less than the other starters. Losing is losing.

Did you even read what I was responding to?

[keefe]

Did you even read what I was responding to?

I did. Did you even read what I wrote? Regardless of whether he is fouled or not, I believe coaches are ok with Wilson driving because he rarely converts. The end result is more often he turns it over, he misses, or gets fouled - in which case he at best makes one FT. Ignoring Wilson may lead to him getting 10 points occasionally which is better than Gardner dominating down low.

Marquette cannot win without an effective point guard. I am not here to beat up on the guy but we are not winning. Take out the cupcakes and Marquette is 3-8 this season.

But like Doc, I didn't watch the second half yesterday. At halftime I met up with colleagues and talked shop and Seahawks then met a lovely woman for dinner. Hell, I even ignored my Fighter Doc and had a glass of wine last night. A 2009 Bethel Heights Willamette Pinot Noir. I am glad I missed Marquette's collapse because it would have spoiled an otherwise great day.

[4everwarriors]

Hope ya got lucky, Crash.

[keefe]

Hope ya got lucky, Crash.

Naw, I was a gentleman. She was a news reader in San Diego and St Louis and is now on the producing side. Smart lady. Not sure why she wants to spend time with me...

[MU82]

Let's take a step back and put things in perspective. When last season ended, the '13-'14 PG position appeared to be in pretty good shape. Duane Wilson was likely to see around 20 minutes a game, Blue would see 10-15 (more if Duane wasn't ready), and Derrick would get his customary 10-12, primarily to give Duane or Blue a quick breather before TV timeouts, and Dawson would play in garbage time. With Blue leaving and Duane getting hurt, Buzz was left with his third and fourth string PGs for the season. Let me reiterate, for all intents and purposes, Buzz planned on Derrick Wilson being the third-string PG this season. As it was, Blue left, Duane was injured and the third-stringer became the starter with a garbage time frosh as his only true back-up.

This might be true, but let's remember a few things:

1. Many here assume Vander would have played major minutes at PG. Has Buzz ever said that was going to be the case? I'm not being difficult here. I legitimately don't know if Buzz ever declared such a thing or if we just assume it.

2. Buzz said approximately 842 times last season that Derrick should start over Junior. Now, we know Buzz was saying that mostly to motivate Junior; had Buzz been serious, he would have started Derrick. But this sent out more than a subtle hint about what would become Buzz's devotion to Derrick. Why am I now supposed to believe that Derrick -- clearly one of Buzz's favorite players even before this season -- wouldn't have at least shared the PG duties with Duane?

3. Buzz said several times before this season -- and before Duane got hurt -- that Duane was nowhere near ready to be a DI starting PG. Again, this was Buzz telling all who cared to be prepared for Derrick getting heavy minutes at PG, even had Duane been healthy.

So I'm not sure that even with Vander here, Derrick is anything less than the starting PG, playing 20+ mpg -- with Vander taking over PG sometimes the same way Jamil has taken over sometimes.

And I'm certainly not sure that Derrick plays less than 25 mpg without Vander but with a healthy Duane. It's not as if a healthy JJJ and Deonte have gotten mondo minutes, and Duane supposedly was well behind Derrick on the depth chart in October.

[CTWarrior]

That might have been true earlier in the season, but have you watched the last couple of games?  Have you noticed that when Derrick is left open, he either takes a midrange shot (and is starting to make them), or drives to the hoop for a layup?  The bottom line is that we are no longer "playing 4 on 5" as some posters claim.  Derrick is forcing defenders to notice him, and someone certainly has to defend him when he takes it to the hole.

And despite this, during the very two games where Derrick is making changes to force his defender to keep track of and defend him, Jake is 1-11 on threes.  You can't blame that on the "4 on 5" argument anymore.

Jake is a streaky shooter who can either shoot us into games (ASU) or shoot us out of them (yesterday).  Derrick, for all his flaws, is consistently our best defender...and has been steadily improving his offense the past few games.  Let me ask you this - can you name one other player in our regular rotation whose offensive game has improved in the last week or two?  If not, it might be time to blame someone other than Derrick.

I watch the games very closely.  Jake is never left unguarded and Derrick is constantly left unguarded, even when he HAS THE BASKETBALL 18 feet from the hoop.  I have never seen such lack of respect by the defense of a PG. 

Now, to be fair, he attacked that defense more against Butler with not great but not terrible results (which, considering how the rest of the team performed, was pretty good).  You sound astute, so you must notice that when he does penetrate he doesn't hit other players for open shots, which is the biggest advantage to a PG penetrating.  And the reason he doesn't do that is even when penetrating, even when 5 feet from the basket, the defense does not converge on him, as the defense would still rather see him shoot than pass.  If he starts scoring with more constistency on these drives, perhaps that will open up the game for others.

As for the larger argument on Dawson vs. Derrick, it is obvious Buzz thinks Derrick is by far the better option, and he is in a much better position than me to know, being much closer to the situation and undoubtedly owning a much better understanding of what it takes to win college basketball games.  I'd like to see Dawson play more, not because I think he is better but because I'd like to know if he is better.  Buzz and staff have the advantage of seeing them all the time and certainly think he isn't.

[MU82]

I watch the games very closely.  Jake is never left unguarded and Derrick is constantly left unguarded, even when he HAS THE BASKETBALL 18 feet from the hoop.  I have never seen such lack of respect by the defense of a PG. 

Now, to be fair, he attacked that defense more against Butler with not great but not terrible results (which, considering how the rest of the team performed, was pretty good).  You sound astute, so you must notice that when he does penetrate he doesn't hit other players for open shots, which is the biggest advantage to a PG penetrating.  And the reason he doesn't do that is even when penetrating, even when 5 feet from the basket, the defense does not converge on him, as the defense would still rather see him shoot than pass.  If he starts scoring with more constistency on these drives, perhaps that will open up the game for others.

As for the larger argument on Dawson vs. Derrick, it is obvious Buzz thinks Derrick is by far the better option, and he is in a much better position than me to know, being much closer to the situation and undoubtedly owning a much better understanding of what it takes to win college basketball games.  I'd like to see Dawson play more, not because I think he is better but because I'd like to know if he is better.  Buzz and staff have the advantage of seeing them all the time and certainly think he isn't.

Jake has missed several wide-open 3s the last two games. That doesn't mean he wasn't guarded, I suppose, but he certainly was freed up either by screens or ball-reversals. Which indicates he wasn't being quite as closely watched as, say, Steve Novak or a real sniper might have been.

[GooooMarquette]

Now, to be fair, he attacked that defense more against Butler with not great but not terrible results (which, considering how the rest of the team performed, was pretty good).  You sound astute, so you must notice that when he does penetrate he doesn't hit other players for open shots, which is the biggest advantage to a PG penetrating.  And the reason he doesn't do that is even when penetrating, even when 5 feet from the basket, the defense does not converge on him, as the defense would still rather see him shoot than pass.  If he starts scoring with more constistency on these drives, perhaps that will open up the game for others.

Fair points about not kicking it out much to others.  There were two very notable exceptions in (I think) the DePaul game, where he got double teamed inside and had beautiful kick-outs to Jake and Todd for in-rhythm threes - both nothing but net.  But you're right; that has been the exception, not the rule.

Bigger picture, though, we need to understand that it appears Buzz has given Derrick these new assignments mid-season.  Buzz has said all along that one of the reasons Derrick starts is that he follows the game plan.  Since he wasn't pushing the ball, shooting many jumpers or driving to the hole early this season, it stands to reason that Buzz probably wasn't asking him to do much of that.  Instead, the offensive game plans seem to have involved slow, steady ballhandling, then handing off to guys like Jamil, Juan or Todd to create.  This worked when Derrick was in last year...but obviously Vander was much more effective at this than Jamil, Juan and Todd have been.  As Buzz has learned this, I suspect he has been very hurriedly working with Derrick to gradually expand the game plan...first adding the drives and the jump shots, then asking him to push the pace, and hopefully adding more kickouts to his repertoire.

In this context, comments by some that "Derrick has been here 3 years- we already know what he can do" must be taken with a huge grain of salt.  We don't know how well he can do many of these new tasks, because Buzz (the guy who says Derrick has been following his game plans all along) has never called on Derrick to do them before.

Another note about the "Derrick has been here 3 years" comments.  Like Dawson this year, most of Derrick's minutes the past 2 years were spot minutes in relief of Junior.  As a frosh, Derrick only played 8.8 mpg (compared to Dawson's 9.1 this year) and as a soph, he played 13.1.  And even those minutes were skewed by Derrick unexpectedly becoming a starter twice as a frosh (UW-Madison and WVU) when Junior was suspended for a half, and then the Pitt game last year when Derrick played 31 minutes off the bench when Junior hurt his ankle.  And in those games, Derrick could just hand the ball to DJO or Jae (as a frosh) or Vander (as a soph), and things would happen.  So it's clear that Buzz's expectations on Derrick were fairly minimal - play bulldog D, control the ball, and don't commit turnovers.  Buzz even made it clear that he was telling Derrick NOT to shoot.  In one of the "Inside Marquette Basketball" programs, Dennis Krause mentioned that Derrick had taken an awkward shot in the previous game and Buzz replied:  "For Derrick, one shot is one too many."

Bottom line:  Derrick is still a work in progress.  He continues to be an excellent ballhandler and defender, and is evolving as an offensive threat.  I don't think even Buzz expected to see teams sagging off him like they have, and even if he did I think he hoped Jamil and others could create off the handoff like DJO, Jae and Vander in years past.  So he seems to changed the game plan as the season has gone along...and I give credit to Derrick for greatly improving his offense on the fly - with progress still to be made - while still being a great defender.

[San Diego Warrior]

I watch the games very closely.  Jake is never left unguarded and Derrick is constantly left unguarded, even when he HAS THE BASKETBALL 18 feet from the hoop.  I have never seen such lack of respect by the defense of a PG. 

Now, to be fair, he attacked that defense more against Butler with not great but not terrible results (which, considering how the rest of the team performed, was pretty good).  You sound astute, so you must notice that when he does penetrate he doesn't hit other players for open shots, which is the biggest advantage to a PG penetrating.  And the reason he doesn't do that is even when penetrating, even when 5 feet from the basket, the defense does not converge on him, as the defense would still rather see him shoot than pass.  If he starts scoring with more constistency on these drives, perhaps that will open up the game for others.

As for the larger argument on Dawson vs. Derrick, it is obvious Buzz thinks Derrick is by far the better option, and he is in a much better position than me to know, being much closer to the situation and undoubtedly owning a much better understanding of what it takes to win college basketball games.  I'd like to see Dawson play more, not because I think he is better but because I'd like to know if he is better.  Buzz and staff have the advantage of seeing them all the time and certainly think he isn't.

Butler made an adjustment in the 2nd half to not guard Derrick Wilson anymore, and the announcers mentioned that they needed to make this adjustment as well.  Once they did this, we could not get entry passes into to our big men and our offense stalled.  Cadougan was not a good shooter, but he would at least take the shot if left unguarded.  I'd rather see D. Wilson at least attempt some of these shots and miss then let the defense sag that badly on him.  They're playing defense on the perimeter with him like it was O'tule with the ball.