Fraternities

[tower912]

Who is the guy who used to defend fraternities?   And will you try to do so now?     Michigan, Penn State, Oklahoma......  I must say they are currently living down to every negative cliché imaginable.   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Still here and yes. How many times have you heard about philanthropy in the news? Just last week we raised 1500 dollars but I didnt see a new story about that. Yes these instances are unacceptable but you honestly think racism is only in fraternities? Please, one of the reasons Marquette pisses me off so much is because of the racist views from the general population. Racism is no okay, but pinning it only on fraternities is bad as well and frankly just ignorant.

[tower912]

Only one incident is race based.   All are entitled attitude based.   And you are not the first nor the last to be frustrated by attitudes of fellow students perceived to be racist. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Only one incident is race based.   All are entitled attitude based.   And you are not the first nor the last to be frustrated by attitudes of fellow students perceived to be racist.  

The most entitled people at MU are not in fraternities. I can tell you that for sure. I present to you, the lacrosse team, Crew, ski club, etc. I have no money, my parents are public school teachers. So please tell  me how everybody in fraternities have entitled attitudes.

Look, I already know how pointless this is going to be. There is nothing I can say that is going to change your view and coming into Marquette I was the same way. But throughout my MU experience, the biggest dicks I know arent greek affiliated.

[Galway Eagle]

The most entitled people at MU are not in fraternities. I can tell you that for sure. I present to you, the lacrosse team, Crew, ski club, etc. I have no money, my parents are public school teachers. So please tell  me how everybody in fraternities have entitled attitudes.

Look, I already know how pointless this is going to be. There is nothing I can say that is going to change your view and coming into Marquette I was the same way. But throughout my MU experience, the biggest dicks I know arent greek affiliated.

Well that's just mean... it's true they're usually the club teams (I admit to being a dick when I played club lax) but it's still mean. And we get into less sexual assault issues and don't make lists for our parties despite being dicks.

[tower912]

The most entitled people at MU are not in fraternities. I can tell you that for sure. I present to you, the lacrosse team, Crew, ski club, etc. I have no money, my parents are public school teachers. So please tell  me how everybody in fraternities have entitled attitudes.

Look, I already know how pointless this is going to be. There is nothing I can say that is going to change your view and coming into Marquette I was the same way. But throughout my MU experience, the biggest dicks I know arent greek affiliated.

Fair enough.   When I was at MU, there wasn't enough of a greek system to even think about, which to me was one of the appeals.   And you are correct.   I have unfairly painted with a broad brush.  On a personal note, when I was at MU as the son of a firefighter and a nurse, I, too had less money and pedigree than many of my friends.   However, it can't be denied that recent actions of some fraternities are in lockstep with the most negative clichés.  

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Well that's just mean... it's true they're usually the club teams (I admit to being a dick when I played club lax) but it's still mean. And we get into less sexual assault issues and don't make lists for our parties despite being dicks.

By law were required to make lists so that point is completely inaccurate. Sexual assult, again, not just limited to fraternities

[Galway Eagle]

By law were required to make lists so that point is completely inaccurate. Sexual assult, again, not just limited to fraternities

I mean I don't really care I usuallh was on them, but it just makes yall seem very elitist and then the distribution of tickets for beer is a joke.

I agree they're not limited to fraternities but put 20+ guys in a house that's designed for parties and such it'll be much more prevalent than say an apartment with a few people.  Personally I couldn't care less as long as there's still independent parties that welcome everyone and actually serve beer in a non exclusive manner. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

They were noble

[GGGG]

My general feelings about fraternities, working in higher education for 25 years, is that they aren't as bad as their detractors think...but they aren't as good as their supporters think.

Basically just a bunch of guys hanging out, partying and raising some money for charity.  You know...like many other student orgs.

[Skitch]

They were noble

They set up cameras at the Pi house and their co-founder donned a mask and raped the lovely Miss Betty Childs.  Let's not forget when they took advantage of the poor girls of Omega Mu after feeding them all "wonder joints". How U.N. Jefferson put up with their shenanigans I'll never know.

[JWags85]

My general feelings about fraternities, working in higher education for 25 years, is that they aren't as bad as their detractors think...but they aren't as good as their supporters think.

Basically just a bunch of guys hanging out, partying and raising some money for charity.  You know...like many other student orgs.

I agree 100%.  I wasn't greek but didn't have much against them, jealous at times for some of their social benefits, perfectly fine with my path.

I was in a business organization, co-ed with about 80-100 active members.  We shared some qualities of a frat such as bigs and littles, recruitment and rushing classes, etc...  We earned $70K in revenue from our business projects in my senior year and donated close to $5000 with various philanthropies...but yet we had new member parties that ended up in freshmen/sophomores in the hospital, had a theme party or two that were borderline offensive in retrospect, and generally acted like college students.  Not that I'm proud of the latter, but it happened.

My point is, I think the group think of college students leads to issues, not fraternities themselves.  3-4 fools get away with alot.  Put them with a bunch of others and suddenly the spotlight is brighter on immature activity.

[warriorchick]

They set up cameras at the Pi house and their co-founder donned a mask and raped the lovely Miss Betty Childs.  Let's not forget when they took advantage of the poor girls of Omega Mu after feeding them all "wonder joints". How U.N. Jefferson put up with their shenanigans I'll never know.

You forgot that they also sold nude photo of Miss Childs to other college students. And they used tall, athletic African American men from their national council to intimidate members of another fraternity.

[Benny B]

By law were required to make lists so that point is completely inaccurate. Sexual assult, again, not just limited to fraternities

Not exactly. Laws had nothing to do with it... it was your insurance underwriter who required you to keep lists at the door.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Not exactly. Laws had nothing to do with it... it was your insurance underwriter who required you to keep lists at the door.

it's a marquette rule.

[keefe]

The most entitled people at MU are the ski club

You gotta be f ucking sh1tting me!!

[muwarrior69]

I did not belong to fraternity, but a few of my friends did. One fraternity my friend belonged to had files of past mid-term and final exams from many of the professors at MU. You would be surprised how many, but not all, of the same questions appeared on those tests. So I guess it's not all party and beer. I guess my question is, is that cheating?

[GGGG]

I did not belong to fraternity, but a few of my friends did. One fraternity my friend belonged to had files of past mid-term and final exams from many of the professors at MU. You would be surprised how many, but not all, of the same questions appeared on those tests. So I guess it's not all party and beer. I guess my question is, is that cheating?

Yes.

[warriorchick]

I did not belong to fraternity, but a few of my friends did. One fraternity my friend belonged to had files of past mid-term and final exams from many of the professors at MU. You would be surprised how many, but not all, of the same questions appeared on those tests. So I guess it's not all party and beer. I guess my question is, is that cheating?

My dad was president of his frat (not at Marquette) back in the '50's, and he talked about the files of tests they kept even back then.

It's a well-known practice.  Shame on the professors who know this, but still don't put in the effort to come up with new tests, or at least have a multiple-year rotation.

[jficke13]

My perspective on fraternities is this: What do they offer that can't be achieved through a non-fraternity at a university like MU?

1. Philanthropy: There are more charitable efforts, causes, fund raisers, service trips, etc. than any one student could possibly do available either through the university or roughly in connection with the university. Just because a fraternity raises money for charity doesn't set it above any of the programs that also do so.

2. Community: Arranging one's peer group around the shared experience of identifying in a fraternity chapter is hard to replicate. However, it is not difficult to make plenty of friends and have plenty of social community at MU without being in a fraternity. What I guess you can't get without a frat is a network of potentially connected alumni (I hear this is bigger at big state schools, especially SEC schools) who will be useful in a professional setting.

I wasn't in a frat and am leaving out plenty of selling points, but my general take is this: The good things you can get out of a fraternity you can get in other ways on campus. The bad things you might get at a fraternity come up often enough I'm getting a little where there's smoke there's fire vibe.

[damuts222]

I mean I don't really care I usuallh was on them, but it just makes yall seem very elitist and then the distribution of tickets for beer is a joke.

Again required by Marquette.  You had to mark the hand of anyone under 21 as well.  Anything else...all those rules are made by Marquette, why would anyone in there right mind want to hand out beer vouchers...its a party.

[g0lden3agle]

My dad was president of his frat (not at Marquette) back in the '50's, and he talked about the files of tests they kept even back then.

It's a well-known practice.  Shame on the professors who know this, but still don't put in the effort to come up with new tests, or at least have a multiple-year rotation.

I agree with this.  Keeping your tests backlogged at your Fraternity in and of itself isn't cheating.  Doing it knowing that the profs don't change their tests make it shady, but who's fault is it that the profs are too lazy to change their tests?

[tower912]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/03/u-m_fraternity_members_will_face_charges_for_ski_resort_vandalism.html#incart_river

Well, at least they didn't violate the bro code of silence. 

[🏀]

I agree with this.  Keeping your tests backlogged at your Fraternity in and of itself isn't cheating.  Doing it knowing that the profs don't change their tests make it shady, but who's fault is it that the profs are too lazy to change their tests?

Read your student handbook, it is actually cheating.


Whenever you get 20-30 dudes living in a house together, there's going to be weird crap that happens.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Still here and yes. How many times have you heard about philanthropy in the news? Just last week we raised 1500 dollars but I didnt see a new story about that. Yes these instances are unacceptable but you honestly think racism is only in fraternities? Please, one of the reasons Marquette pisses me off so much is because of the racist views from the general population. Racism is no okay, but pinning it only on fraternities is bad as well and frankly just ignorant.

$1,500... why not just donate to the internet's fraternity, www.thechive.com

[lurch91]

Was in a fraternity at Marquette, was even the IFC representative to ASMU (I think that's the right abbreviation for the MU student council).  I always thought it was so odd that the Greek circuit was so important during the campaigning - all the candidates made it a point to campaign each fraternity and sorority because we were generally the most organized segment of the student population.

And the change in the drinking age from 18 to 21 lead directly to the explosion of the Greek system at Marquette in the late 80's and early 90's.

[muwarrior69]

Here is a different take on the Oklahoma frat story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/20/opinions/randazza-offensive-speech-first-amendment/index.html

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The most entitled people at MU are not in fraternities. I can tell you that for sure. I present to you, the lacrosse team, Crew, ski club, etc. I have no money, my parents are public school teachers. So please tell  me how everybody in fraternities have entitled attitudes.

Look, I already know how pointless this is going to be. There is nothing I can say that is going to change your view and coming into Marquette I was the same way. But throughout my MU experience, the biggest dicks I know arent greek affiliated.

A bit ironic defending fraternities by using a broad brush and anecdotal experience to put down other clubs.

[Benny B]

it's a marquette rule.

And it's a Marquette rule because they basically copied your insurer's handbook.  Every major university (that elects to exercise oversight of the Greek system) does the same thing.  It's a CYA move for the universities.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Here is a different take on the Oklahoma frat story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/20/opinions/randazza-offensive-speech-first-amendment/index.html

Pragmatic response.

I enjoyed Gavin McInnes's article on the subject.
http://takimag.com/article/yall_so_stupid_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz3V29jQxZ2

[GGGG]

Pragmatic response.

I enjoyed Gavin McInnes's article on the subject.
http://takimag.com/article/yall_so_stupid_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz3V29jQxZ2

That is really a ridiculous article.  Author is throwing bombs all over the place, and his basic premise seems to be "stop being offended so easily."

[GGGG]

Here is a different take on the Oklahoma frat story.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/20/opinions/randazza-offensive-speech-first-amendment/index.html

That really isn't a "different take."  That has been out there since the story broke.  OU was covering its ass.  Even if they philosophically believed that the premise of this article was correct, they weren't going to be the ones to fight that fight.

[Warrior Code]

My perspective on fraternities is this: What do they offer that can't be achieved through a non-fraternity at a university like MU?

1. Philanthropy: There are more charitable efforts, causes, fund raisers, service trips, etc. than any one student could possibly do available either through the university or roughly in connection with the university. Just because a fraternity raises money for charity doesn't set it above any of the programs that also do so.

2. Community: Arranging one's peer group around the shared experience of identifying in a fraternity chapter is hard to replicate. However, it is not difficult to make plenty of friends and have plenty of social community at MU without being in a fraternity. What I guess you can't get without a frat is a network of potentially connected alumni (I hear this is bigger at big state schools, especially SEC schools) who will be useful in a professional setting.

I wasn't in a frat and am leaving out plenty of selling points, but my general take is this: The good things you can get out of a fraternity you can get in other ways on campus. The bad things you might get at a fraternity come up often enough I'm getting a little where there's smoke there's fire vibe.

I agree with this. I don't think all Greek members are bad, but these stories that keep popping up certainly are. And with social media, more of the bad aspects that were previously hush-hush will keep coming to light. Conversely, because of social media, some of the networking benefits are mitigated because everyone had access to LinkedIn et al.

[tower912]

http://news.yahoo.com/can-schools-solve-the-fraternity-problem--135353739.html

[Skatastrophy]

http://news.yahoo.com/can-schools-solve-the-fraternity-problem--135353739.html

We should ban all organized gatherings. You never know what people will do when they get together to do... things.

[martyconlonontherun]

I think people take for granted how fraternities bring people together and give them the feeling of family at a new school. I know when I was at Marquette, there were 5-6 at any given point in my chapter that probably wouldn't have still been at Marquette if they didn't join Greek life. They would sincerely talk at recruiting events on how they had filled out forms for other schools second semester of freshmen year before changing their minds after finding close friends in the fraternity. The same thing that causes a lot of the bad press also contributed to a lot good on campus. During my time, there was definitely an atmosphere of alcohol and partying, but it also built in pressure to do better in school (way higher grade requirements than the average student), pressure for community service, and pressure to get involved in other clubs. I think Marquette has done a decent job in controlling fraternities but still allowing them to do good.

[MUsoxfan]

Like-minded people will always gravitate towards each other. What's the difference if they pay dues or not.

[Pakuni]

http://gawker.com/parents-of-clemson-frat-pledge-allege-he-died-over-mcdo-1694815819

[Benny B]

Like-minded people will always gravitate towards each other. What's the difference if they pay dues or not.

Such is one of the main benefits of being in a fraternity... it brings together people of all backgrounds, lifestyles, cultures, etc.  I was involved in a chapter (not an MU fraternity) where the membership was at least twice as diverse as the entire campus, and I'm not talking about a HBF.  20% of the membership was born/raised outside the U.S., every men's varsity sport was represented, some members already had degrees from a 2-year school, several had delayed school for military, religious or service missions, urban and rural areas were equally represented, and majors were across the board.  These guys ran the chapter like a business, but were also the closest group of guys I've ever seen.  Not sure what they paid for dues, but my guess is that the value was right since everyone - evidently - paid on time, despite the fact that many of these guys were working and paying their own way through school.

However, I've also seen fraternities that are the most homogeneous group of guys that one would swear they might have thought them clones had they not known better.  It's unfortunate that the purpose of fraternity has been bastardized over the years by guys who put the focus on "bros" as opposed to "brotherhood."

Fraternities - historically - used to be seen as a "home away from home" where guys could learn to interact socially with people who weren't necessarily cut from the same cloth and form lasting bonds and friendships with people they otherwise would not have had a chance to "gravitate towards".  I had a cousin pass away at a young age, and I counted nearly half the attendees at his memorial service a few years back were fraternity brothers of his... ranging in age from 10-15 years his senior to 20 years his junior.  It was simply mind boggling how many of these guys not only knew him but forwent an entire football Saturday afternoon to attend his service.  Then his chapter was shut down a year later for hazing or drug dealing or something.  So nobody's immune.