Oso planning to go pro
This is meant to be an honest(not smart ass question)....some people here talk so much about "trend lines" then pick and choose what data they want to use to suit their narrative. Well, This year MU won't finish as high in the conference as they did last year, and next year COULD(yet to be determined), be worse than this year...so wouldn't that then mean a downward trend?? Or is that not the data we will choose to use for any number of reasons?? To me, if you have one year of say a 2nd place finish, the next year is a 5th place finish(for example), and the year after that is a 7th place finish, that can't be anything but a downward trend. Or...are we being forgiving because of whatever excuses we want to use(the Hausers leaving etc)?? I'm asking in all honesty here.
You realize this is only going to change the narrative from "Can't win big games" to "Isn't prepared for big games". That will result in the hypothesis that Wojo has lost more games by 10+ points than any coach in recent history....Edit: I failed to say, awesome post that was backed up by facts and not pure conjecture, emotion, and hyperbole.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics". A very meaningful quote that statisticians appreciate. Statistics, when applied properly are helpful. Otherwise ... As a side we paid someone $2,000,000/year to learn on the job. So after six years how is the return on that $12,000,000 investment? Sounds like folks are satisfied because Wojo is improving based on your measures. Given this insight how many more years before we become a top contender or are we there already? I prefer not to lower the bar.
Who cares? That was six years ago. If Wojo leaves, do we have to pick from Shaka, Howland, and Cuonzo again?
I had the same choice that most of us had and he had his fair share of bumps. I agree we had few/no other acceptable choices. I think the bigger question is why does Marquette have so few choices? Pay appears not to be the problem. Facilities are excellent. Weather is out of our control but many mid western schools have the same issue. So the question is why?Also I do not expect this management to take action. This highlights another issue. I understand why, in this case, I just disagree with their decision to continue to extend contacts. We should be looking on an ongoing basis and when someone outstanding becomes available we go for it. Do we not do the same with the players we recruit? How many offers are out there for players, how many get little to no playing time and are given little choice if they do not work out? Should we hold coaches to the same standard coaches use with players? We give players a red shirt to develop. That is one year. How many years do we give a coach? Agree more than 1 or 2 but how many more past 6?
First, I wasn't talking to you. Second, I said I was curious to hear C71's point of view. If you're not interested, move along.But to answer your question ...Yes, we again probably will be picking from a list that includes: "young, gotta-have, mid-major coach" ... "older retread with skeletons in closet" ... "good recruiter with meh record who would use Marquette as stepping-stone." Oh, and mustn't forget "long-time assistant at top-tier program."I know there are some who believe we would be able to attract an established P6 coach with a multiple-year history of NCAA tournament success, but given that we've never, ever, EVER hired one of those, I have my doubts. If we're lucky, we'd land the next Chris Beard ... though if we hire a guy whose resume is as similarly thin, MU's administration would immediately get ripped by Scoop's most geniusy geniuses.
Coaching hires are in the context of the year in which the opening occurs. When Buzz left there weren't a ton of desirable retreads or up and coming assistants. If Wojo is fired after this season, there may be more coaches available with talent then when Buzz left, but there may not be.I'm supportive of keeping Wojo in such that he is good enough/improving that I think he'll pay off but if some "sure fire" coach has mutual interest with MU I'd be fine dumping Wojo and going with the new coach. Call it better one in the hand than two in the bush theory of coach hiring (please proceed Ziggy to go as dirty as you'd like with this statement).
Is there some reason that we can not look before we fire? If the field is weak stay with a known. If not pull the plug.
I see people refer to posters 'who believe we would be able to attract an established P6 coach with a multiple-year history of NCAA tournament success' a lot more than I actually see said posters. Rational people are aware that's not the pool Marquette will be swimming in. They could hire someone worse, but they could also hire someone better. They have in the past.And if people on Scoop rip the admin for a hire, then again, who cares? I doubt Buzz could've gotten a HC interview at a P6 school when we hired him. Then he won so people quieted down.
Are expectations as high as they have ever been to see what Wojo would do once he got "his guys" in place? Yes. Ultimately being a fan of a team means going through really tough stretches. For those that want "success" and seeing their team win every night, college basketball is not the sport to be a fan of. Ive come to that realization after getting hurt by MUBB during the rough times after investing a lot in a sport I have no control over. However, its fun to watch close games and its somewhat fun to get irritated and annoyed when your team doesnt win. Beyond that, I see no point in complaining unless you directly donate to the program. In which case, I guess you are more than free to stop donating.
This analysis of record against the top 25 should be stated as against the FINAL top 25 kenpom. The problem with it is when you beat teams that are in the 20's, they tend to fall out so you end up hurting your own record when you do it. A classic example is two years ago we beat Seton Hall twice...they ended up 26th. On at least one of those occasions, they were rated higher when we beat them.
Good article and good reason to keep him around for a while longer.
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.
No, it’ll be an assistant coach or mid-major. Retread is a possibility. For me, it’s Tony Bennett or bust
I think, after reading this post, that you and I generally agree: We could hire somebody better or worse than Wojo. (Of course, most would agree with this except those who would say NOBODY could possibly be worse than the evil Wojo.)I'd add ... But we likely wouldn't know for years whether the next hire is better or worse than Wojo, especially if all or most of the best players bolt.Yessir, Soda, it would be great to find the guy who happens to turn out to be the next Buzz, especially if he could do it while operating under the guidelines the current administration has established.
So bust.We ain't getting Cal, we ain't getting Wright or Mack. An assistant coach or mid-major, in other words someone with a very high probability of being worse than Wojo.Forget our last coaching search, look to UCLA's last search. Hollywood baby, great LA weather, awesome coeds and an eight year run of NCAA titles, the record for the most NCAA tournament titles with 11. And they struggled to find a guy. That should be sobering for anyone looking to make a change.
As a side we paid someone $2,000,000/year to learn on the job. So after six years how is the return on that $12,000,000 investment? Sounds like folks are satisfied because Wojo is improving based on your measures. Given this insight how many more years before we become a top contender or are we there already?
This is the problem. For me, it's really national title or bust. Big East titles and Final Fours are nice indicators of improvement, but ultimately the difference in the long term satisfaction of 2013 & 2019 aren't that huge.It took Jay Wright more than 20 years to win a title. Tony Bennett, Bill Self, and Roy Williams needed more than a decade. Past MU coaches Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Rick Majerus, and Kevin O'Neill never got there.I don't know what Wojo will be in 5, 10, or 15 years. But if the cyclical improvement continues, it seems like he would be the kind of coach we are all wishing for. We're not there, I don't know if he'll ever get there, but if the next three years are better than the last three, and the three beyond that are also better, we'll be a top-10 program. I think that's worth waiting for. Yes, it's a big if, but the alternative is starting over and starting the not knowing what we have clock for another decade or two.
Brew, any idea if there is a database of coaching tenure duration and first Final Four or NC appearance? Might be a good dose of reality one way or another as to what expectations should be around a coach.