a W at the Kohl Center?

[jaygall31]

What's everyone's opinion....is this the year we (MU) finally get a victory at the Kohl center? I know Tom Crean sees the bigger picture...it's more than a W and L in this series, but he has to want to get a win there...

[1990Warrior]

On paper I think we are the better team.  However, the referees feel that this game is more about them and their ability to give the Badgers home advantage.  It is a shame because this should be a truly great rivalry like some of the one we have in conference like Notre Dame, Louisville, Pitt, etc. where the refs just do their job.  So while I think we should win, we have been screwed over by poor and blatantly biased officiating that it will not surprise me and I really won't care if we lose.  This has ruined this rivalry for me.

[Murffieus]

If we don't beat UW this year at the Kohl Center, I don't think we ever will in the Bo Ryan era. We have everyone back-----and they lost their two best players!

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

You really think the refs have cost Marquette wins in the past??  Being a Marq grad and fan since I was 8 yrs old in the early 80s, the constant whining about UW getting unfair advantages on or off the court is even too much for me to stand.

[1990Warrior]

You really think the refs have cost Marquette wins in the past??  Being a Marq grad and fan since I was 8 yrs old in the early 80s, the constant whining about UW getting unfair advantages on or off the court is even too much for me to stand.

Yes, I do.  I am an avid sports fan and usually don't whine about the officiating.  It has been out of control in this series however.  For an example, you can look at this box score from our last visit:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=253440275&confId=4

I think the fact that Mcneal and Fitzgerald both fouled out and Novak and Mathews both were saddled with 4 fouls gave Wisconsin a huge advantage in that game - maybe I am missing something?

As I implied in my origional post I would not be surprised to see more of the same this December.

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

Bad example to site.  If you look more closely, the fouls were 9-7 in the first half.  The Badgers went on a 20-6 run to close the first half and the game never got close thereafter.  Teams that are down by double digits in the second half and never get hot from the floor typically commit alot more fouls.

Fitzgerald only gets in foul trouble against the Badgers, huh?  McNeal for that matter too?  The Badgers always commit fewer fouls than there opponent.  I think K Taylor went the first 1/2 of the year or better last year with one or two fouls total!  It is a product of Ryan's coaching, whether he intimidates the refs or teaches great defensive position.  I am going to chalk it up to his coaching and say UW will always have the advantage in this category when the two teams meet as long as the coaches stay the same.

[MUfan12]

Nothing was worse than the game Wade's Sophomore year... that was a horrid display of officiating. The refs bought every flop hook, line, and sinker. Two of the three early fouls Dwyane picked up were a joke.

[jaygall31]

I agree. Wade's game there was a complete and utter joke. That still eats at me...

The better team..especially this year..won't win a lot of games this year at the kohl center. they just dont lose there. It'd be a huge WIN for james and co. though...and wesley, god knows he wants to win there.

[1990Warrior]

Bad example to site.  If you look more closely, the fouls were 9-7 in the first half.  The Badgers went on a 20-6 run to close the first half and the game never got close thereafter.  Teams that are down by double digits in the second half and never get hot from the floor typically commit alot more fouls.

Fitzgerald only gets in foul trouble against the Badgers, huh?  McNeal for that matter too?  The Badgers always commit fewer fouls than there opponent.  I think K Taylor went the first 1/2 of the year or better last year with one or two fouls total!  It is a product of Ryan's coaching, whether he intimidates the refs or teaches great defensive position.  I am going to chalk it up to his coaching and say UW will always have the advantage in this category when the two teams meet as long as the coaches stay the same.

The fouls were 9-7 in the first half:  Ok, I looked more closely - maybe the fact that two of them were called on McNeal in the first 6 minutes of the game is what caused him to play so few minutes.  In fact, if you call two fouls on the same player early in the game, you can have a profound impact on the game by limiting that players minutes.  I am pretty sure that this is what the other posters are saying happened to Wade.

I really do not understand why, if you are down 13 points at half time, that would necessitate committing 19 fouls in the second half.

If there is bad officiating in one game, I would not bring it up.  There is definitely a trend here.

I think this game illustrates what typically happens.

[muwarrior87]

Higgins wont be reffing it at least...thank goodness he finally retired. 

[Gomarq1]

I would contend that we should not be whining about officiating in these games. The last two games at the Kohl the Badgers had some pretty good teams, and like him or not, Bo can flat out coach hoops. The Kohl is traditionally one of the hardest places to win on the road and it has very little, if anything to do with homer officiating.  Sure the home team always gets a few calls, MU benefits from this at the BC too!

Wisconsin will almost always have fewer fouls than MU regardless where the game is played, Bo teaches a different brand of defense that limits the number of fouls, Crean teaches very agressive in your face, generate turnovers brand of defense that will encourage a higher number of fouls.

I was at all three games mentioned in this thread and while there were some questionable calls, there was no conspiracy, there are always some questionable calls! Wade for instance was out of control on a couple of those drives (as he often was early in his freshman year until he figured out some of his patented magical moves).

MU wins by playing consistently better for 40 minutes, not by hoping the refs don't screw us.

[mu_hilltopper]

Higgins wont be reffing it at least...thank goodness he finally retired. 

Really?  Rumor or fact?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Higgins wont be reffing it at least...thank goodness he finally retired. 

Really?  Rumor or fact?

I think higgins is still around but Burr is retired.  but I could be wrong.

Build a Wiki page!  (no, I'm not offering) 

[muwarrior87]

i am almost positive i read somewhere over the summer that higgins' last year was this past season.  I could be wrong but that's what all the talk was at the end of last season, thank god higgins is finally retiring.

[5YearsatMU]

I also clearly remember that it was Higgins who is retiring, not Burr. 

[ecompt]

Those who don't think we get screwed at the Kohl, come to my place sometime and I'll show you a tape of not only the Wade game but the one from a few years back when with us down by 1 in the final minute Tucker had the ball in the corner, went up for a jump shot, saw Novak jump with him, and came down with the ball. No traveling call. Instead, he goes around a stunned Novak and picks up a foul on him. We lose 63-59. Utter BS.
Bo intimidates the refs as much as anyone in the country. We will outscore UW by at least five field goals and lose by six with a 27-12 difference in FTs attempted.

[augoman]

Those who don't think we get screwed at the Kohl, come to my place sometime and I'll show you a tape of not only the Wade game but the one from a few years back when with us down by 1 in the final minute Tucker had the ball in the corner, went up for a jump shot, saw Novak jump with him, and came down with the ball. No traveling call. Instead, he goes around a stunned Novak and picks up a foul on him. We lose 63-59. Utter BS.
Bo intimidates the refs as much as anyone in the country. We will outscore UW by at least five field goals and lose by six with a 27-12 difference in FTs attempted.

I have been travelling to the MU/UW games since the 60's, and the 'home court advantage' has never been so obvious as under Bo's tutelage.  I believe he teaches the 'flop' as a form of defense, as all his teams and all his players use it constantly.  Yes, it worked against DWade, and yes, it worked against McNeal, but-come on!  I laughed MAO watching Harris try to flop in the NBA playoffs covering Wade.  The refs looked at him with incredulity.
Mike Kelly was a constant grabber.  His strenth in playing D was a strong grip- he never got called in Madison.  Tucker's travels have already been mentioned, etc.  I've always wondered why we can't get the same treatment at the BC?

[muwarrior87]

Those who don't think we get screwed at the Kohl, come to my place sometime and I'll show you a tape of not only the Wade game but the one from a few years back when with us down by 1 in the final minute Tucker had the ball in the corner, went up for a jump shot, saw Novak jump with him, and came down with the ball. No traveling call. Instead, he goes around a stunned Novak and picks up a foul on him. We lose 63-59. Utter BS.
Bo intimidates the refs as much as anyone in the country. We will outscore UW by at least five field goals and lose by six with a 27-12 difference in FTs attempted.

I have been travelling to the MU/UW games since the 60's, and the 'home court advantage' has never been so obvious as under Bo's tutelage.  I believe he teaches the 'flop' as a form of defense, as all his teams and all his players use it constantly.  Yes, it worked against DWade, and yes, it worked against McNeal, but-come on!  I laughed MAO watching Harris try to flop in the NBA playoffs covering Wade.  The refs looked at him with incredulity.
Mike Kelly was a constant grabber.  His strenth in playing D was a strong grip- he never got called in Madison.  Tucker's travels have already been mentioned, etc.  I've always wondered why we can't get the same treatment at the BC?

Because Dwight Schute is not the Grinch.  Crean focuses more on getting his players to play with intensity than focusing on getting in the refs ear like Bo.  It will be interesting to see if Bo gets any T's called on him this year for his bickering at officials since they are supposed to enforce that more than in years past.

[jaygall31]

obviously MU has more to gain in this. A victory in mad-town would do wonders for this team. it's not that big of a game, but it is at the same time

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Those who don't think we get screwed at the Kohl, come to my place sometime and I'll show you a tape...

What is your address?

[Gomarq1]

It always annoys me when fans of opposing teams blame the officiating for losses to MU. I wish I could say it was more appealing when MU fans do the same thing...... but sadly it isn't.

[robmufan]

The problem is every team has fans that complain and blame losses on refs, so for one to think that marquette didn't have fans like that, i dont know what you think

[bilsu]

Bo has made the mistake that Crean did a few years ago. He had only three true guards on the team. Now with Flowers gone he is down to two guards. UW could lose a lot of games this year.

[ecompt]

I'm in Erie, Pa., Nightmare. Bring over some onion dip if you come.
I know MU gets calls at home, as does every team. UW's free-throw discrepancy, especially at the Kohl, defies belief. If the Spurs played there, Duncan would foul out in 25 minutes.

[MarquetteVol]

I seem to remember DWade picking up 3 fouls in the first 3 minutes of the 02 game in Madison. One of them was a handcheck and the other there was no contact shown in the replay. Weird.