Wojo's Seat April 4, 2017

[TedBaxter]

Not getting Shaka is what set this program back to where it is. Obviously it's speculative but i'm willing to bet a large sum of cash that had Mrs Shaka not killed the deal at the last minute..this program would be in a much different place right now. They'd have made the dance last year with Shaka and probably wouldnt have had the transfers they had if he was here.

And willing to bet a larger sum of money on something you'll never be able to measure is truly brilliant Einstein.

Some people on Marquette message boards are beyond stupid.

[tower912]

And willing to bet a larger sum of money on something you'll never be able to measure is truly brilliant Einstein.

Some people on Marquette message boards are beyond stupid.

I would argue if I could.   T

[wadesworld]

Not getting Shaka is what set this program back to where it is. Obviously it's speculative but i'm willing to bet a large sum of cash that had Mrs Shaka not killed the deal at the last minute..this program would be in a much different place right now. They'd have made the dance last year with Shaka and probably wouldnt have had the transfers they had if he was here.

Define "much better place."

Shaka's team made a miracle run to a Final Four in a season in which they shouldn't have even made the NCAA Tournament while using the previous coach's players.  Other than that he's been a first round exit 3 times and a 2nd round exit twice.  No other S16 appearances.

Wojo will have us dancing further than Shaka has Texas dancing within the next 3 years.

[4everwarriors]

Billy Packer was right, hey?

[Newsdreams]

I'm sure Shayok and Hill would've given us a second look and one of Burton or Magic Dawson may still be here but it's impossible to say. Not a chance that anybody is winning with the team that was here when Buzz left though.

FIFY

[Lennys Tap]

Lots of history has been rewritten in this thread. Truth is, we were in the midst of our most successful era in 40 years, the second most successful in our history. When a serious ALLEGATION of misconduct was mishandled by people in the athletic department, the BOT panicked and brought in a couple of people to clean up a mess that really wasn't one. They quickly realized their screw up and canned their hand picked president and AD - but unfortunately not before they had caused irreparable divisions between the university and our very successful basketball coach. A nuclear winter that has now lasted 3 years has been the result.

Those who defend the university for what became this clusterf*ck make me smile. "Buzz was a cheater", "The program was out of control", blah, blah, blah. "Other shoes will drop". Right.

Michael Hunt has covered sports in Milwaukee for 30 years. To say that he's never been an apologist for Marquette or any of its coaches would be an understatement. In fact, many here have complained that he's had a history of being too tough on us.

Here are some excerpts from his column after Pilarz and LW were fired in December 2013 (caps are mine):

"From the outside looking in, it may have seemed like the men's basketball program was a renegade outfit. With Pilarz's directive, Larry Williams was intent on ramping up academic requirements and discipline on the school's cash cow, which was in the midst of 3 consecutive Sweet 16 appearances.

Of course, higher standards for the department should always be the goal for every athletic director. But in the case of Marquette basketball, NOT A WHOLE LOT NEEDED TO BE FIXED.

From what I've witnessed being around the program for more than a year, Williams is THE MOST TRANSPARENT COLLEGE COACH I've dealt with in 3 decades.There have been discipline and rule hiccups, but in a business where hypocritical NCAA rules and outright cheaters cause college coaches to hide everything from the outside world, (Buzz) Williams, sometimes to his detriment, is an open book.

In fact, there are Marquette boosters who fear the Golden Eagles will never win another national title BECAUSE BUZZ WILLIAMS DOESN"T CHEAT.

Meanwhile, Buzz Williams remains one of the best coaches in the country who happens to win and WANTS TO DO THINGS THE RIGHT WAY at a tough place to recruit."

The administration brought in heavy artillery to extinguish an enemy that didn't exist. All they destroyed was the basketball program. Hopefully a Phoenix will rise from the ashes, but the wounds that brought us here were as unnecessary as they were self inflicted.

[muwarrior69]

? Is there any secret or anything inappropriate about what I said? That, among other things (like he was a total d*ck to coworkers) is a principal reason Buzz isn't here anymore.  I don't think anyone is the least surprised by that.  Have a nice day.

Not at all. I and what Chicos has posted before he got banned (for other reasons) are in complete agreement to what you said. Wojo and the admin want the right kind of player on and off the court to represent the face of the university rather than recruit to win at any cost which there are some on this board. I meant no offense and apologize.

[GGGG]

Last year MU was 12-20 against the spread - I think that's a nice rough metric for coaching quality.

So the quality of his coaching is dependent on what teams gamblers bet on?  That makes no sense.

[muwarrior69]

Lots of history has been rewritten in this thread. Truth is, we were in the midst of our most successful era in 40 years, the second most successful in our history. When a serious ALLEGATION of misconduct was mishandled by people in the athletic department, the BOT panicked and brought in a couple of people to clean up a mess that really wasn't one. They quickly realized their screw up and canned their hand picked president and AD - but unfortunately not before they had caused irreparable divisions between the university and our very successful basketball coach. A nuclear winter that has now lasted 3 years has been the result.

Those who defend the university for what became this clusterf*ck make me smile. "Buzz was a cheater", "The program was out of control", blah, blah, blah. "Other shoes will drop". Right.

Michael Hunt has covered sports in Milwaukee for 30 years. To say that he's never been an apologist for Marquette or any of its coaches would be an understatement. In fact, many here have complained that he's had a history of being too tough on us.

Here are some excerpts from his column after Pilarz and LW were fired in December 2013 (caps are mine):

"From the outside looking in, it may have seemed like the men's basketball program was a renegade outfit. With Pilarz's directive, Larry Williams was intent on ramping up academic requirements and discipline on the school's cash cow, which was in the midst of 3 consecutive Sweet 16 appearances.

Of course, higher standards for the department should always be the goal for every athletic director. But in the case of Marquette basketball, NOT A WHOLE LOT NEEDED TO BE FIXED.

From what I've witnessed being around the program for more than a year, Williams is THE MOST TRANSPARENT COLLEGE COACH I've dealt with in 3 decades.There have been discipline and rule hiccups, but in a business where hypocritical NCAA rules and outright cheaters cause college coaches to hide everything from the outside world, (Buzz) Williams, sometimes to his detriment, is an open book.

In fact, there are Marquette boosters who fear the Golden Eagles will never win another national title BECAUSE BUZZ WILLIAMS DOESN"T CHEAT.

Meanwhile, Buzz Williams remains one of the best coaches in the country who happens to win and WANTS TO DO THINGS THE RIGHT WAY at a tough place to recruit."

The administration brought in heavy artillery to extinguish an enemy that didn't exist. All they destroyed was the basketball program. Hopefully a Phoenix will rise from the ashes, but the wounds that brought us here were as unnecessary as they were self inflicted.

That being said Buzz's HS recruits have been unremarkable.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Quoting a Michael Hunt article? Cmon Lenny, you know better.

That necessary joke aside, I don't necessarily disagree. Buzz wasn't a cheater. He was great for Marquette. But that doesn't mean there weren't issues.

Admitting players like Jae and Todd is questionable. Some people have no issue with it, others do. I see both sides. I don't fault Buzz for recruiting them, and I don't fault the university for not allowing him to continue that.

Buzz's annual flirting with every open job on the market is also questionable. On one hand, he's playing the game and advocating for himself. Every year he managed to squeeze more money out of Marquette. I had no issues with that when he was winning. But when he pulled the same stunt after his last season...that's a little shifty. You don't ask for a raise after a crappy year.

You can call it an allegation all you want but the sexual assault did occur and there were blunders by the athletic departments management of it. Keep in mind that conduct records are protected by ferpa but there were some sudden transfers.

Even with all these issues, Buzz was still good for Marquette and I will always be grateful for what he did as coach. But that doesn't mean the university didn't need to respond. Could they have done better? Absolutely. Could Buzz have handled it better? Absolutely. But he didn't, he decided to take his ball and play in the boondocks. I still wish him well. But I care about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

[Lennys Tap]

That being said Buzz's HS recruits have been unremarkable.

Who cares? His TEAMS (as long as he had the administration's backing) were.

[GGGG]

Knowing what I know about the alleged sexual assault incident, if that would have happened in today's post-Baylor environment, Buzz would be lucky to still have a job.

[mu03eng]

Quoting a Michael Hunt article? Cmon Lenny, you know better.

That being said, I don't necessarily disagree. Buzz wasn't a cheater. He was great for Marquette. But that doesn't mean there weren't issues.

Admitting players like Jae and Todd is questionable. Some people have no issue with it, others do. I see both sides. I don't fault Buzz for recruiting them, and I don't fault the university for not allowing him to continue that.

Buzz's annual flirting with every open job on the market is also questionable. On one hand, he's playing the game and advocating for himself. Every year he managed to squeeze more money out of Marquette. I had no issues with that when he was winning. But when he pulled the same stunt after his last season...that's a little shifty. You don't ask for a raise after a crappy year.

You can call it an allegation all you want but the sexual assault did occur and there were blunders by the athletic departments management of it. Keep in mind that conduct records are protected by ferpa but there were some sudden transfers.

Even with all these issues, Buzz was still good for Marquette and I will always be grateful for what he did as coach. But that doesn't mean the university didn't need to respond. Could they have done better? Absolutely. Could Buzz have handled it better? Absolutely. But he didn't, he decided to take his ball and play in the boondocks. I still wish him well. But I care about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

Not to mention the assault issue wasn't the only issue around integrity(coaching staff and players) that happened under Buzz's watch.

I'm not making this all out that Buzz was terrible or that MU had no role...both sides sucked to some degree or another (and who was the worse of the two is a debate that will fuel Scoop off-season for eons) and as a result there was a smoking hole in the basketball program when Wojo took over.

Either way the hole was created and now Lovell/Wojo have to crawl out of the hole and return us to our former glory.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Knowing what I know about the alleged sexual assault incident, if that would have happened in today's post-Baylor environment, Buzz would be lucky to still have a job.

A lot has changed since 2011. A lot more expectations on universities

[Pakuni]

Quoting a Michael Hunt article? Cmon Lenny, you know better.

That necessary joke aside, I don't necessarily disagree. Buzz wasn't a cheater. He was great for Marquette. But that doesn't mean there weren't issues.

Admitting players like Jae and Todd is questionable. Some people have no issue with it, others do. I see both sides. I don't fault Buzz for recruiting them, and I don't fault the university for not allowing him to continue that.

Buzz's annual flirting with every open job on the market is also questionable. On one hand, he's playing the game and advocating for himself. Every year he managed to squeeze more money out of Marquette. I had no issues with that when he was winning. But when he pulled the same stunt after his last season...that's a little shifty. You don't ask for a raise after a crappy year.

You can call it an allegation all you want but the sexual assault did occur and there were blunders by the athletic departments management of it. Keep in mind that conduct records are protected by ferpa but there were some sudden transfers.

Even with all these issues, Buzz was still good for Marquette and I will always be grateful for what he did as coach. But that doesn't mean the university didn't need to respond. Could they have done better? Absolutely. Could Buzz have handled it better? Absolutely. But he didn't, he decided to take his ball and play in the boondocks. I still wish him well. But I care about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

Perfectly stated.

[bilsu]

You take the talent and hope you can replace him the following year.  If Henry did not come to MU, how bad would they have been the second year under Wojo? 
Unfortunately it might not work out.

I never said that Wojo should not of taken Henry. What I said he should of been prepared for him leaving early. No different than Crean not being prepared for Wade leaving early. At least Crean said he made a mistake with not being prepared for that scenario.

[Lennys Tap]

Quoting a Michael Hunt article? Cmon Lenny, you know better.

That necessary joke aside, I don't necessarily disagree. Buzz wasn't a cheater. He was great for Marquette. But that doesn't mean there weren't issues.

Admitting players like Jae and Todd is questionable. Some people have no issue with it, others do. I see both sides. I don't fault Buzz for recruiting them, and I don't fault the university for not allowing him to continue that.

Buzz's annual flirting with every open job on the market is also questionable. On one hand, he's playing the game and advocating for himself. Every year he managed to squeeze more money out of Marquette. I had no issues with that when he was winning. But when he pulled the same stunt after his last season...that's a little shifty. You don't ask for a raise after a crappy year.

You can call it an allegation all you want but the sexual assault did occur and there were blunders by the athletic departments management of it. Keep in mind that conduct records are protected by ferpa but there were some sudden transfers.

Even with all these issues, Buzz was still good for Marquette and I will always be grateful for what he did as coach. But that doesn't mean the university didn't need to respond. Could they have done better? Absolutely. Could Buzz have handled it better? Absolutely. But he didn't, he decided to take his ball and play in the boondocks. I still wish him well. But I care about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

1.He was the Marquette beat writer at the time and has 3 decades of experience covering college sports. He had more access to the program than you or any other poster could hope to - so laugh all you want, but what's your point?

2. Al's teams were full of kids you'd call high risk. Crean successful ones, too. If MU aspires to compete at the highest level, that's a given. The "both sides" argument is really whether to compete at that level or not.

3. Buzz wanted out after his last season enough to leave almost immediately and for less money. The idea that he was in negotiations for a raise at a job he wanted desperately to leave is laughable.

4. You don't know and I don't know whether sexual assault occurred. you weren't there and neither was I. Regardless, other than rumors/speculation, what's buzz's culpability here?

5. Agreed

[HoopsterBC]

I never said that Wojo should not of taken Henry. What I said he should of been prepared for him leaving early. No different than Crean not being prepared for Wade leaving early. At least Crean said he made a mistake with not being prepared for that scenario.

He tried with grad transfers and that failed again this year trying to get Gill or Young.  It is to bad but Reinhardt might be a better option any way because he
will play a stretch 4.  I assume looking at the team, he looks like the biggest guard they have, with Hauser.  Both will play the 4.  I hope Sam starts and gets lots
of playing time.

[GGGG]

1.He was the Marquette beat writer at the time and has 3 decades of experience covering college sports. He had more access to the program than you or any other poster could hope to - so laugh all you want, but what's your point?

2. Al's teams were full of kids you'd call high risk. Crean successful ones, too. If MU aspires to compete at the highest level, that's a given. The "both sides" argument is really whether to compete at that level or not.

3. Buzz want out after his last season enough to leave almost immediately and for less money. The idea that he was in negotiations for a raise at a job he wanted desperately to leave is laughable.

4. You don't know and I don't know whether sexual assault occurred. you weren't there and neither was I. Regardless, other than rumors/speculation, what's buzz's culpability here?

5. Agreed

Regarding #4, it is very likely that he committed actions that would have put Marquette in violation of Title IX.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Regarding #4, it is very likely that he committed actions that would have put Marquette in violation of Title IX.

Is that a fire-able offense at most universities?

[Dawson Rental]

3. Buzz want out after his last season enough to leave almost immediately and for less money. The idea that he was in negotiations for a raise at a job he wanted desperately to leave is laughable.

Have you forgotten the discussionof Buzz's Virgina Tech contract?  He has them by the short hairs, he's got total control of the program and he basically can't be let go.

And how long was he getting less money?  One year?  Don't kid yourself, he left for a better deal.

Thanks for bringing the Hunt article into the discussion, it brought several things into perspective.

[Lennys Tap]

Not to mention the assault issue wasn't the only issue around integrity(coaching staff and players) that happened under Buzz's watch.

I'm not making this all out that Buzz was terrible or that MU had no role...both sides sucked to some degree or another (and who was the worse of the two is a debate that will fuel Scoop off-season for eons) and as a result there was a smoking hole in the basketball program when Wojo took over.

Either way the hole was created and now Lovell/Wojo have to crawl out of the hole and return us to our former glory.

I hope that Lovell/Wojo can crawl out of the hole that Pilarz/LW dug at the direction of the BOT, but here's the thing...

Marquette has only been a force in college basketball when it's had players and coaches with chips on their shoulders. Kids from questionable schools and backgrounds, kids from underprivileged neighborhoods, kids that are risky. And coaches and administrators willing to take those risks. Maybe Lovell/Wojo are already taking those risks. I hope so, because there is nothing in Marquette's basketball DNA that suggests the "Duke North" model is a successful one.

[Lennys Tap]

Have you forgotten the discussionof Buzz's Virgina Tech contract?  He has them by the short hairs, he's got total control of the program and he basically can't be let go.

And how long was he getting less money?  One year?  Don't kid yourself, he left for a better deal.

Thanks for bringing the Hunt article into the discussion, it brought several things into perspective.

Good point - there has been so much hate on Buzz leaving and much of that hate has concerned him leaving for "less money". But in fact (as you pointed out) it was for a much better deal.

[GGGG]

Is that a fire-able offense at most universities?

It can be.  Considering what happened at Baylor, if the situation repeated itself today, it might have been.

[Dawson Rental]

I hope that Lovell/Wojo can crawl out of the hole that Pilarz/LW dug at the direction of the BOT, but here's the thing...

Marquette has only been a force in college basketball when it's had players and coaches with chips on their shoulders. Kids from questionable schools and backgrounds, kids from underprivileged neighborhoods, kids that are risky. And coaches and administrators willing to take those risks. Maybe Lovell/Wojo are already taking those risks. I hope so, because there is nothing in Marquette's basketball DNA that suggests the "Duke North" model is a successful one.

Nonetheless, "Duke North" is the road Marquette is now on.  There has indeed been a sea change, kimo sabe.

Not only do I agree with your description of how Marquette established its basketball program as a nationally relevant one, I'd argue that the "rebel" and "outsider" mystique was a big part of the    ...er charm of being a Marquette fan.