WSJ: To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me

[Tugg Speedman]

Apparently she was on the Today show yesterday ….

She had a GPA of 4.5, SAT 2120 and worked last summer as a Senate page.

She was accepted and is going to Michigan.  She was rejected by Princeton, Yale, Vanderbilt and Penn.

--------------------------------
The Wall Street Journal
March 30, 2013

To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me
If only I had a tiger mom or started a fake charity.

By Suzy Lee Weiss

Ms. Weiss is a senior at Taylor Allderdice High School in Pittsburgh.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324000704578390340064578654.html?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs%3Darticle

Like me, millions of high-school seniors with sour grapes are asking themselves this week how they failed to get into the colleges of their dreams. It's simple: For years, they—we—were lied to.

Colleges tell you, "Just be yourself." That is great advice, as long as yourself has nine extracurriculars, six leadership positions, three varsity sports, killer SAT scores and two moms. Then by all means, be yourself! If you work at a local pizza shop and are the slowest person on the cross-country team, consider taking your business elsewhere.

What could I have done differently over the past years?

For starters, had I known two years ago what I know now, I would have gladly worn a headdress to school. Show me to any closet, and I would've happily come out of it. "Diversity!" I offer about as much diversity as a saltine cracker. If it were up to me, I would've been any of the diversities: Navajo, Pacific Islander, anything. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, I salute you and your 1/32 Cherokee heritage.

I also probably should have started a fake charity. Providing veterinary services for homeless people's pets. Collecting donations for the underprivileged chimpanzees of the Congo. Raising awareness for Chapped-Lips-in-the-Winter Syndrome. Fun-runs, dance-a-thons, bake sales—as long as you're using someone else's misfortunes to try to propel yourself into the Ivy League, you're golden.

Having a tiger mom helps, too. As the youngest of four daughters, I noticed long ago that my parents gave up on parenting me. It has been great in certain ways: Instead of "Be home by 11," it's "Don't wake us up when you come through the door, we're trying to sleep." But my parents also left me with a dearth of hobbies that make admissions committees salivate. I've never sat down at a piano, never plucked a violin. Karate lasted about a week and the swim team didn't last past the first lap. Why couldn't Amy Chua have adopted me as one of her cubs?

Then there was summer camp. I should've done what I knew was best—go to Africa, scoop up some suffering child, take a few pictures, and write my essays about how spending that afternoon with Kinto changed my life. Because everyone knows that if you don't have anything difficult going on in your own life, you should just hop on a plane so you're able to talk about what other people have to deal with.

Or at least hop to an internship. Get a precocious-sounding title to put on your resume. "Assistant Director of Mail Services." "Chairwoman of Coffee Logistics." I could have been a gopher in the office of someone I was related to. Work experience!

To those kids who by age 14 got their doctorate, cured a disease, or discovered a guilt-free brownie recipe: My parents make me watch your "60 Minutes" segments, and they've clipped your newspaper articles for me to read before bed. You make us mere mortals look bad. (Also, I am desperately jealous and willing to pay a lot to learn your secrets.)

To those claiming that I am bitter—you bet I am! An underachieving selfish teenager making excuses for her own failures? That too! To those of you disgusted by this, shocked that I take for granted the wonderful gifts I have been afforded, I say shhhh—"The Real Housewives" is on.

[Tugg Speedman]

Suzy Lee Weiss and the Age of Entitlement

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dinagachman/2013/04/03/suzy-lee-weiss-and-the-age-of-entitlement/

By now you’ve probably read the Wall Street Journal op-ed by Pittsburgh high school senior Suzy Lee Weiss called “To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me.” The post has some supporters, who are calling Weiss a hero and telling her she’s “right on,” and an equal amount of detractors calling her a whiny, spoiled brat. I let the story sink in for a few days to make sure I wasn’t having a knee-jerk reaction, and nope – I’m 100% sure this girl is not a hero.

First, I know that getting into college is incredibly difficult and frustrating (and at times rigged), never mind all of the debt that piles up once you do get in, or the lack of dream jobs waiting for you once you graduate. That said, Weiss rants about the fact that she didn’t get into any good schools because she’s not a minority and she and her entire generation were “lied to” because they were always told to “just be yourself” and you’ll get into school. I’m not sure what the adults in Pittsburgh are smoking, but I’ve never heard of teachers or parents telling kids to “just be yourself” to get into school.

That’s the most horrible advice I’ve ever heard and I don’t believe that’s the refrain Weiss heard all throughout her life. I also didn’t believe that her real name was “Suzy Lee Weiss” since that sounds about as real as “Billy Jo Witherspoon,” but it turns out Weiss is real and that’s her name. In any case, did she truly never hear that it’s important to do things like, oh, I don’t know: Study, join clubs, learn instruments and volunteer and do whatever you can to give yourself an edge over the hundreds of thousands of other applicants you’re competing against? In the article, Weiss basically says that she didn’t join anything and didn’t do that well on her SATs but she still expected to get a flurry of acceptances? How is this girl a hero?

She says that if she knew then what she knows now, she “probably should have started a fake charity.” How about starting a real charity? Something small but meaningful, like donating food to your local women’s shelter? Weiss is also cynical about not getting an internship, since internships are all lame anyways. Well, yeah. No one adores fetching coffee for the CEO but you know what – it’s a step, and it’ll look a lot better on your resume than “2011-2012: I whined and watched Honey Boo Boo.” Weiss and her entitled peers probably have the entire World War II generation turning in their graves.

I probably sound like one of those “I walked 40 miles in the snow to work…” people, but I don’t care.

Maybe Weiss was writing a satire and I don’t get the joke. Oddly enough, I sent the article to my mom, who is in her sixties, and she thought it was “funny.” Am I missing something? She also said, “Well this generation is different,” as if that’s an excuse. I know that for every Suzy Lee Weiss there are hundreds of high school students who are working hard and starting real charities and they’re too busy to complain. But the scary thing is, there are also a lot of Suzy Lee Weisses – just look at the comments on her post. That makes me sad, because I think hard work is admirable and not something that should slip away just because some people think they can skip the internships and assistant jobs and jump right into the CFO chair.

I’ve had interns say to me, “It’s not my job to make copies,” and “I don’t want to be anyone’s assistant” as they eyeball the CEO’s chair in the conference room. Ambition can be good, and having big goals is fantastic, but they don’t just magically happen and 80% of the “overnight success” stories we hear actually took years of hard work, struggle, rejection, and perseverance.

Maybe the joke’s on me though, and Suzy Lee Weiss will announce her late acceptance to Yale soon (because of her article). I think what’s more upsetting than a teenager complaining (that’s kind of a teenager’s MO, right?) is all of the people calling her a hero. The heroes are the highs school seniors who worked hard, pushed themselves, joined the band even though they’d rather be watching Real Housewives, and got into the school of their dreams against all odds. Suzy Lee Weiss isn’t a hero. At least she admits that she’s an “underachieving selfish teenager making excuses for her own failures.”

That might make her wily, but it doesn’t make her admirable.

[GGGG]

I weep for Suzy Lee's future husband....she sounds like a very bitter person.

[77ncaachamps]

Suzy Lee Weiss...

But I thought she was half-Chinese!



Was she a legacy?
Did she apply for a major without sufficient (competitive) credentials?
Is she driven? Like "low-income, overcoming odds" driven?

[MU B2002]

I weep for Suzy Lee's future husband....she sounds like a very bitter person.

She sounds like the ideal spokesperson for today's youth.


Bitter and entitled.

[Hards Alumni]

You get from life what you put into it.  If she is only willing to put in average work (at my school, there was no such thing as a GPA greater than a 4.0) then why should she get to attend the best of the best Ivy League schools?  How naive.  The competition at the top schools is beyond numbers.  Her measurable stats were great.  But if that is all she had to stand on, then it is no surprise that she got left out.

Wait, she is going to Michigan?  A top flight B1G school, and she is complaining?

GET BENT.

[MerrittsMustache]

She didn't get her way so it's obviously someone else's fault. I don't see the problem with what she wrote.

[4everwarriors]

Try to view the situation from her perspective. Stellar grades and test scores should be enough if the system works, right? Yet, there are hundreds of students , not nearly as qualified as she, who will be attending Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. merely because they "played the game."
Aside from out of state tuition at Michigan being nearly as much as a select university, there's nothing wrong with bein' a Wolverine.

[LAZER]

I'm sure Michigan is pumped to have such a thoughtful, humble and modest student enrolling in their class this fall.

[Tugg Speedman]

Try to view the situation from her perspective. Stellar grades and test scores should be enough if the system works, right? Yet, there are hundreds of students , not nearly as qualified as she, who will be attending Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. merely because they "played the game."
Aside from out of state tuition at Michigan being nearly as much as a select university, there's nothing wrong with bein' a Wolverine.

Who are these hundreds of students that are not nearly as qualified as she, who will be attending Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. merely because they "played the game."

What "game" are you referring to?

[LAZER]

Who are these hundreds of students that are not nearly as qualified as she, who will be attending Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. merely because they "played the game."

What "game" are you referring to?

There's definitely a "game" involved and she clearly knows what it  is, she apparently didn't feel the need to participate in it.  I get that it's annoying, but that's life and unfortunately it doesn't get any better.

[Tugg Speedman]

Ok, I guess I'm thick ... again what is the "game" that you must play to get into an elite school like Harvard?

[GGGG]

She sounds like the ideal spokesperson for today's youth.

Bitter and entitled.

As someone who deals with "today's youth" on an everyday basis, I see some of that.  But honestly I think most of today's youth are more with it than I was at that age.

[LAZER]

Ok, I guess I'm thick ... again what is the "game" that you must play to get into an elite school like Harvard?

What I mean by that is all of the extra curriculars, charities, clubs etc and all the extras to polish your application.  I personally remember throwing a bunch of garbage on my application that I spent minimal hours participating in.  I'm not saying every application is BS, but I'd imagine there is quite a bit a fluff on most applications.

Having said that, she knew exactly what these schools were looking for and didn't do anything about it so she has no one to blame but herself.  If she didn't know this at the time, she should be blaming her counselors intead.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Try to view the situation from her perspective. Stellar grades and test scores should be enough if the system works, right? Yet, there are hundreds of students , not nearly as qualified as she, who will be attending Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. merely because they "played the game."
Aside from out of state tuition at Michigan being nearly as much as a select university, there's nothing wrong with bein' a Wolverine.

That's where my head is.  And if she did the same work she currently did but was able to check a box or two, I'm willing to bet she would have been admitted at some of those other schools.  BOX CHECK....what BOXES can I check to get in.   Reverse discrimination is awesome, and it exists...so says the SCOTUS.  

My viewpoints are shaped by a good friend at UCLA in their admissions department.  I'll leave it at that.

[MerrittsMustache]

Ok, I guess I'm thick ... again what is the "game" that you must play to get into an elite school like Harvard?

You need to "play the game" of going above and beyond to make yourself stand out. That means giving up leisure time and participating in the extracurriculars, running for student council, doing charity work, having a low-level internship, etc. Everyone who applies to Ivy League schools (and has a realistic chance of getting in) has the same grades and test scores. They can't accept everyone.

It's no different in the business/working world. All of your peers are basically the same. If you don't "play the game" and figure out a way to standout, you're going to get overlooked.

[Tugg Speedman]

You need to "play the game" of going above and beyond to make yourself stand out. That means giving up leisure time and participating in the extracurriculars, running for student council, doing charity work, having a low-level internship, etc. Everyone who applies to Ivy League schools (and has a realistic chance of getting in) has the same grades and test scores. They can't accept everyone.

It's no different in the business/working world. All of your peers are basically the same. If you don't "play the game" and figure out a way to standout, you're going to get overlooked.

That's where my head is.  And if she did the same work she currently did but was able to check a box or two, I'm willing to bet she would have been admitted at some of those other schools.  BOX CHECK....what BOXES can I check to get in.   Reverse discrimination is awesome, and it exists...so says the SCOTUS. 

My viewpoints are shaped by a good friend at UCLA in their admissions department.  I'll leave it at that.

So these admission people are boobs that cannot tell the different between a "box checker" and a truly talented kid?

[Coleman]

I feel so bad for her......  


She clearly does know how to play the game. She's doing it right now for media attention. Part of me thinks this is working out exactly how she planned it all along...

[MerrittsMustache]

So these admission people are boobs that cannot tell the different between a "box checker" and a truly talented kid?

When I was a HS school, I met with an admissions employee at Northwestern. She told me that after they receive their thousands of applications, they accept the best of the best, reject those who are underqualified and everyone else is basically the same. The school meets their quotas, accept legacies and it's more or less a crapshoot for everyone else.

In theory, if my application had 6 boxes checked and someone else's had 7, they'd rank ahead of me. Does it mean I'm not as qualified as that other applicant? Not necessarily. It just means he/she did a little bit more. Like I said, schools can't accept everyone.

[Eldon]

Michigan is a great, nay, superb school.  I'd even argue that it's better than Vandy by almost every measure.  

In any case, my advice to this girl is to stop comparing yourself to others; use your own past achievements as a measuring stick.  I find that going through life is much easier that way.

[dwaderoy2004]

Try to view the situation from her perspective. Stellar grades and test scores should be enough if the system works, right? Yet, there are hundreds of students , not nearly as qualified as she, who will be attending Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. merely because they "played the game."
Aside from out of state tuition at Michigan being nearly as much as a select university, there's nothing wrong with bein' a Wolverine.

I understand what you are saying, but there are still limited spots at any school.  There is not a minimum criteria that guarantees you a spot at Harvard or Yale.  In my opinion, the system did work...she got into Michigan.  I also have zero problem with what she wrote.  Lot of truth there.

[Tugg Speedman]

Harvard received 35,023 applications.  They accepted 2,029 for a 5.44% acceptance rate.  If you back out their early admits last fall, the regular decision, acceptance rate was 3%.  Princeton and Yale are essentially the same.  All the ivies sent their regular decisions last Thursday (March 28) at 5PM ET.

Does she honestly think she is fits the profile of these 2,029 kids?

---------------------


College admits 2,029
Record financial aid helps cast Class of ’17 as ‘one of the best’

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/03/college-admits-2029-5-8-percent-of-applicants/

Letters and email notifications of admission were sent today to 2,029 students, 5.8 percent of the applicant pool of 35,023.  Admitted students have until May 1 to accept their offers.

“Unprecedented levels of financial aid played a major role in producing a record applicant pool and an admitted group that promises to be one of the best in Harvard’s history,” said William R. Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions and financial aid. “The leadership of President Drew Faust, Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences Michael Smith, and Dean of the College Evelynn Hammonds in providing a record $182 million in need-based financial aid affirms Harvard’s longstanding commitment to enroll the nation’s and the world’s best students regardless of economic background.”

“We expect that nearly 60 percent of the students admitted to the Class of 2017 will need financial assistance in order to attend,” said Sarah C. Donahue, director of financial aid.  “Their families will pay an average of only $12,000 per year. About 20 percent of Harvard families, those with normal assets making $65,000 or less annually, will pay nothing at all.”  As always, students contribute to the cost of their education through term-time and summer work.

“Beyond statistical measures, the Class of 2017 embodies all the intangibles, attributes of strong character and personal qualities that foster unusual academic and extracurricular excellence,” said Fitzsimmons. “Their remarkable creativity, intellectual curiosity, and love of learning will add immeasurably to the education of their fellow classmates and to the entire Harvard community.”

More than 27 percent intend to concentrate in the social sciences, 23 percent in the biological sciences, nearly 18 percent in the humanities, 15 percent in engineering and computer science, 9 percent in the physical sciences, 7 percent in mathematics, and the rest are undecided.

Extracurricular interests cited by students include music and other expressive and performing arts (42 percent); debate and political activities, including student government (35 percent); social service (17 percent); and writing and journalism (18 percent). In addition, 54 percent of the class expects to participate in recreational, intramural, or intercollegiate athletics.

More than 14,400 in the applicant pool scored 700 or above on the SAT critical reading test; 17,400 scored 700 or above on the SAT math test; 14,900 scored 700 or higher on the SAT writing test; and 3,400 were ranked first in their high school classes.

Slightly more than half (53.4 percent) of those admitted are men, reflecting the fact that more men than women applied.  Minority representation remained strong. The admitted class is 19.9 percent Asian-American, 11.5 percent African-American, 11.5 percent Latino, 2.2 percent Native American, and .5 percent Native Hawaiian.

Geographic representation remained similar to last year.  About 23 percent of the admitted students reside in the mid-Atlantic states, 21 percent in the Western and Mountain states, 17 percent in the South, 17 percent in New England, 9 percent in the Midwest, and 11 percent in the U.S. territories and abroad.

Foreign citizens make up 10.3 percent of the admitted students.  In addition, a significant number of entering students will bring international perspectives, including 147 U.S. dual citizens, 61 U.S. permanent residents, and many Americans who have lived abroad.  Together, foreign citizens, U.S. duals, and U.S. permanent residents make up more than 20 percent of the class, representing 81 countries.  “Harvard is greatly enriched by the presence of outstanding international students,” said Robin M. Worth, director of international admissions. “They add a unique dimension to the College, both in and out of the classroom.”

“Much of our success is due to our loyal 15,000 alumni volunteers,” said Marlyn E. McGrath, director of admissions. “Their interviews remain important as we make our admissions decisions.  They are also essential to our recruiting, as they visit schools, call newly admitted students, and host gatherings for them in April.” Added Elizabeth Adams, liaison to the alumni/ae Schools and Scholarship Committees, “Their willingness to take time out of already busy lives to help assemble our class each year is vital to our efforts.”

Recruitment begins each year with direct outreach to promising juniors. More than 64 percent of all admitted students and 81 percent of admitted minority students appeared on the original College Board and ACT search lists that helped launch Harvard’s outreach program for the Class of 2017.

Staff members will visit 125 cities this spring and fall in tandem with Duke University, Georgetown University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Stanford University, targeting high school juniors who may eventually join the Class of 2018.  “Harvard will join Princeton and the University of Virginia to visit 20 more cities in the fall, targeting students from modest economic backgrounds,” said Tim Smith, assistant director of joint travel.  Added Jennifer Gandy, director of joint travel, “Last year, Harvard admissions officers visited all 50 states, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and Mexico, where we saw nearly 50,000 high school students and parents and met with more than 3,000 high school guidance counselors.”

“Recruitment has provided the foundation for Harvard’s pursuit of academic and extracurricular excellence for many decades,” said Roger Banks, director of recruitment.  “Members of the Undergraduate Minority Recruitment Program (UMRP) and the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative (HFAI) played a key role in attracting this year’s record pool of students.” Members of both organizations telephoned and sent email messages and letters to prospective applicants. They also conducted recruitment trips around the country and met with middle school and high school student groups who visited Harvard.

“We are gratified by the enthusiasm of our UMRP coordinators and the positive results they achieved this year,” said Lucerito Ortiz, co-director of UMRP. Added Tia Ray, assistant director, “Our program continues to develop close relationships with schools and communities that will help us with future recruiting as well.”

“HFAI remains one of Harvard’s highest priorities, and once again we were able to attract outstanding students from families with annual incomes under $80,000,” said Monica Del Toro-Brown, director of HFAI. Pharen Bowman, HFAI assistant director, noted, “Our student recruiters worked tirelessly to reach out to talented students from modest economic backgrounds who never dreamed Harvard was possible.” Added Charlene Kim, HFAI assistant director, “As a person who would have benefited from the HFAI program, I am inspired by students who have come to Harvard as a result of HFAI.”  Kaitlin Howrigan, assistant director of HFAI, observed, “As a Vermonter from a multi-generational farming family, I am particularly pleased to see the number of students from rural areas who benefit from HFAI.”

The Undergraduate Admissions Council (UAC) and the undergraduate tour guides and greeters work year-round with campus visitors to Cambridge, leading tours and hosting prospective applicants overnight. David Evans, co-director of the UAC, noted, “Current undergraduates have enormous credibility with prospective students who want to learn firsthand about the Harvard experience.” Added Mike Esposito, UAC co-director, “The UAC provides a human face to the Harvard community, and applicants often stay in touch with UAC members throughout the year.” Jake Foley, UAC co-director, concurred, saying, “We hear from students and families that UAC members help separate fact from fiction about what Harvard is really like on a day-to-day basis.”

Banks, director of visitor services and co-director of the student tour guide program, said, “Our tour guides and greeters welcome over 40,000 visitors each year to Cambridge. Their anecdotes about life in the College both inside and outside the classroom help lend a personal dimension to Harvard.”  Added Ortiz, “We get many compliments from the public about our tour guides and their ability to relate to a wide range of people with their grace and humor.”  Bryce Gilfillian, assistant director, said, “Prospective students and their families from around the world see Harvard for the first time with our tour guides and often make their decision about whether to apply based on this experience.”

McGrath emphasized the important role of the teaching faculty in the admissions process.  Faculty members speak with many prospective students in person or on the phone and answer their letters and email inquiries. “Their accessibility is a clear demonstration of Harvard’s commitment to undergraduate education. In reading hundreds of applications, evaluating academic research of all kinds, and assessing portfolios across a range of academic and creative disciplines, faculty members identify the next generation of scholars for Harvard.”

Members of the teaching faculty serving on the Admissions Committee are Ann Blair, Peter Burgard, Diana Eck, Edward Glaeser, Benedict Gross, Guido Guidotti, Evelynn M. Hammonds, Joseph Harris, Thomas Jehn, Harry Lewis, James McCarthy, Louis Menand, Michael Mitzenmacher, Cherry Murray, Alison Simmons, Frans Spaepen, Christopher Stubbs, Richard Thomas, James Waldo, Robert Woollacott, and Amir Yacoby.

Personal contact with admitted students will be important over the next few weeks.  Members of the UAC, UMRP, HFAI, the admissions and financial aid staff, and teaching faculty will write, email, telephone, and meet with admitted students.

“Our careful admissions process allows us to get to know our admitted students well,” said Niki Applebaum, yield activity coordinator.  “We write personalized notes to congratulate them and help them consider how Harvard might provide the right match for their interests.”

Harvard reaches out to students through a comprehensive digital communications program directed by Amy Lavoie.  Working with assistant directors, Applebaum, Jake Foley and Amelia Muller, Lavoie said that, “Students today rely increasingly on the Internet for information about higher education.  Through our website and student blogs, students from all over the world can get a wealth of information about the College.”

To give admitted students the opportunity to experience Harvard life and meet future professors and classmates, a visiting program for admitted students is scheduled for April 20 to 22.  The program, known as Visitas, enables guests to sample classes, attend faculty panel discussions, concerts, receptions, department open houses, symposia, and hundreds of events organized by extracurricular groups.  More than 1,400 admitted students are expected to visit during April, and 1,200 of them will do so during Visitas.  “Students admitted to Harvard have many attractive options, and meetings with faculty and future classmates are critically important to them,” said Visitas co-director Esposito.  Co-director Muller added that “many students decide to attend Harvard based on their Visitas experience.”

Donahue and her financial aid colleagues will be available to speak with admitted students and their families on weekdays during April from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. EDT and on April 21 from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. during Visitas.  “We welcome students and parents who have concerns or questions about how to finance a Harvard education, including families who may not have applied for financial aid but who are interested in the wide range of available payment options,” she said.  “Our program offers assistance to all students and families, ranging from full financial aid to a number of financing alternatives: a monthly payment plan, the opportunity to prepay tuition at current rates, and a variety of parent loan programs that extend payments up to 15 years.”

“Students and their families are anxious to learn more about other forms of financial assistance, such as the Faculty Aide Program, the Harvard College Research Program, and the Dean’s Summer Research Program, all of which enable students to create paid partnerships with faculty members on academic projects of mutual interest,” said Meg Brooks Swift, director of student employment and the Harvard College Research Program.  “We stand ready to help them in any way we can.”

[nyg]

In 2006 my son graduated from a very well respected academically catholic high school.  He had a 4.0 GPA, took AP courses, scored 2,200 out of 2,400 on the brand new SAT test and was involved in sports and extra-curricular activities.

He applied to the engineering schools of Penn St., Maryland, Virginia Tech, Purdue and George Washington.  On a whim, he said he wanted to apply to Harvard, Yale and Princeton to see what would happen.  All three declined and he was accepted to all the others, which had the more acclaimed engineering programs.  He went on to get a full scholarship at Maryland after first year, all the way through his post graduate work, where he received his Masters in the unique field of Fire Protection Engineering.

All three Ivy schools had alumni conducting personal interviews and they report the results back to the admissions department.  

Alot of these applications have to do with what "school" you are applying for within the university.  As 84 stated, the amount of applications and actual acceptance is insane, just because the students want to attend the Ivies and gain the "prestige" gathered with the degree.

I for one am glad he went to Maryland, which has an outstanding Engineering school and the cost benefit.  Maryland, Penn St., Purdue and Virginia Tech also have much better engineering schools than the Ivies he applied to.

Maybe this girl applied to the wrong "school" within a school, just bombed her interviews or was just a numbers game.  She should be more than pleased to get accepted to Michigan, one if not the best public colleges.

On last note, I saw a TV segment on admissions last week and they interviewed someone from an Ivy school (can't recall which) and she said they accepted one applicant because of his ingenuity with his application.  Seems he sent his application in a shoebox and wrote something like "I like to think out of the box" as his opening statement. Just goes to show........

[GGGG]

That's where my head is.  And if she did the same work she currently did but was able to check a box or two, I'm willing to bet she would have been admitted at some of those other schools.  BOX CHECK....what BOXES can I check to get in.   Reverse discrimination is awesome, and it exists...so says the SCOTUS. 

My viewpoints are shaped by a good friend at UCLA in their admissions department.  I'll leave it at that.

Harvard and other Ivies have made it very clear that they don't simply accept those with the highest GPAs, standardized test scores, etc. or those who check the most boxes.  They are going to have a diverse class...and by diverse I mean not just racial diversity...but different backgrounds of all types.  Geographic...income...etc. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So these admission people are boobs that cannot tell the different between a "box checker" and a truly talented kid?

I'm saying certain boxes mean things to admissions boards, whether they care to admit it or not....whether, in some cases, they are legally allowed to consider them or not.