If Cavs drop out...?

[brewcity77]

But the timing of that run and the recognizable nature of their biggest star is paramount here. In the past 20 years, the Bulls are undoubtedly the most prestigious franchise in the NBA, with only the Lakers even close. The bulk of Boston's success comes from over 25 years ago. I'm terms of recent glamor, Chicago is damn near the definition.

[CrazyEcho]

As previously stated:  Look the glamor argument is all perception depending on the person evaluating it.  I'm all about history and 17 titles or whatever speaks VOLUMES to me even though I'm only 23 (and a basketball player myself... sadly not well enough, lol)... others my age MAY only care about what's more current and that's Chicago.  Some are saying if there's a lot of fans then that makes it a glamorous organization... it's all personal feelings and there's no way we are all gonna agree on it.  I will just say I don't think of Chicago as a 'glamorous' organization.

Essentially, yes there's an appeal there, but clearly we are judging glamor totally different.  You are looking at it as "is there a reason to go play for that team" and I am looking at it as "historically what has the team done," which is an area that the Bulls lack historically being as they only had the one run.

The Bulls have the 3rd most NBA championships behind only the Lakers/Celtics.  

[GoldenWarrior]

But the timing of that run and the recognizable nature of their biggest star is paramount here. In the past 20 years, the Bulls are undoubtedly the most prestigious franchise in the NBA, with only the Lakers even close. The bulk of Boston's success comes from over 25 years ago. I'm terms of recent glamor, Chicago is damn near the definition.

Right, that's why I said I was looking at it from a historical context.  I'm all about the entirety of the NBA and not just the "what have you done for me lately" mentality when it comes to prestiege and glamor.

[GoldenWarrior]

The Bulls have the 3rd most NBA championships behind only the Lakers/Celtics.  

WELLLLLLL short of those two and hence why I believe what I am saying.

[GGGG]

Right, that's why I said I was looking at it from a historical context.  I'm all about the entirety of the NBA and not just the "what have you done for me lately" mentality when it comes to prestiege and glamor.

I think you're using the wrong term then.  History and tradition don't make a team "glamorous."  I mean, I wouldn't call the Packers a "glamorous" football team.  I wouldn't call the Celtics a "glamorous" basketball team. 

[oldwarrior81]

The Bulls history consists of an unbelievable 9 year run with Phil Jackson as coach.  Led by Jordan they had  545 wins, 193 losses, with 6 division titles and 6 NBA titles.

In the other 35 years they're about 300 games under .500 with 1 division title.

[wadesworld]

I'm sorry i was born in chicago.
I'm sorry I'm a fan of the city and the sports.
I'm sorry I don't think the fans suck.
I'm sorry that something inside me makes me respond when you attack our teams, players and fans.
I'm sorry that I can't bad mouth every part of the country and blame it on THEIR superiority complexes.
And I'm sorry that your narrow view and prejudices allow me to own you regularly.


to whoever said that BJ had the ability to be a better all around pg in the future.  You have a right to that opinion.  Who knows?  
But, Rose was counted on to be a scoring threat and he still has a very good hands rating according to 82games.com.  You put lebron on that team and his already extremely efficient shot selection will improve as the burden to be a number one option(and double teams) is lifted.  Assits will obviously go up, to's will go down.  I think most of us (not wadeswrold) would agree his defencive and rebounding ceilings are also much higher than BJ.

When you look at the stats that Rose and Jennings put up during their rookie years they are pretty similar, slightly in favor of Rose.

Rose: 16.8 ppg, 6.3 apg, 3.9 rpg, 2.5 turnovers/gm, 0.8 steals/gm
Jennings: 15.5 ppg, 5.7 apg, 3.4 rpg, 2.4 turnovers/gm, 1.28 steals/gm (by the way, Rose had just 0.7 steals per game this season)

Like I said, these numbers favor Rose, but only slightly.  What really stands out to me is that Rose shot 22% from 3 point range (raised it to 27% this year), but shot 47% (raised it to 49% this year) overall, while Jennings shot 37.4% 3 point, while just 37.1% overall.  This tells me that Jennings's shot selection is very questionable, while Rose's is about as good as they come (huge advantage for Rose).  Personally I believe Rose will always be slightly below a 50% shooter from the field, WHICH IS VERY GOOD, but I do not believe he will become a much better 3 point shooter than what he is.  I COULD BE WRONG ABOUT THAT.  But those numbers tell me that Jennings has a better shot, but he just does not know when to take those shots and which shots are good shots at this point.  It is yet to be seen whether his shot selection will improve, but as a 19 (!) year old with just one year of NBA experience behind him I would say it is more likely that it will.  I say he will improve his shooting while Rose probably will remain around where he is because a guard shooting nearly 50% is very good, and you really don't see many guards shooting above that.  I think Jennings WILL improve his shooting percentage with experience because 37% shooting is poor, and while I don't expect him to ever be a 48% shooter, I think he can raise it to between 42-45%, which will be a significant increase, while still shooting the 3 pointer better than Rose will.  And just to further show this, Jennings made 145 3 pointers this season, while Rose has made 32 in his 2 seasons combined.

I can agree with you that Rose has a higher rebounding ceiling.  I don't agree with you that he has a higher defensive ceiling.  As I pointed out, Jennings averages over half of a steal per game more than Rose does.  I'm not saying Rose is a bad defender, but I think you are completely underestimating Jennings's defense, something that can probably be attributed to Scott Skiles.  I also think you are completely underestimating Jennings's quickness.  The guy has to be one of the top 5 quickest players in the NBA.

Both players are able to break down a defense off the dribble and create open shots for their teammates.

I don't think it's that ridiculous to think that at this point in his career Jennings isn't far behind where Rose was a year ago, with the potential to be just as good or better.

But just keep talking matter-of-factly about the future.  I'm going to go ahead and guess that your response will be something along the lines of:
Let's not be impressed, Rose was an All-Star in his second year.  He was hurt for the first half of the season, so forget those numbers.  Rose is a better defender and quicker.

If that is correct, don't bother responding.

[RawdogDX]

This all started when i put rose in the top 5 pg's.  You said that bj is above him.  SInce then no one has agreed with that, apperently not even you.  You back peddled and said that you meant he'll be better in the future but that if you were building a team you'd draft rose above him.  I no longer have any idea what you are trying to convince me of.
I think bj will have a good career.  He'll make 3-6 all star teams.  Rose will make 6-8. 
And yes i'll keep talking matter of factly about the future.

[RawdogDX]

A non-chicago writer shares my opinion about lebron winning titles in chicago:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba

[wadesworld]

This all started when i put rose in the top 5 pg's.  You said that bj is above him.  SInce then no one has agreed with that, apperently not even you.  You back peddled and said that you meant he'll be better in the future but that if you were building a team you'd draft rose above him.  I no longer have any idea what you are trying to convince me of.
I think bj will have a good career.  He'll make 3-6 all star teams.  Rose will make 6-8.  
And yes i'll keep talking matter of factly about the future.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything because we all know that won't happen.  I'm just saying that I don't think it's all that unreasonable to say that Jennings is not very far behind where Rose was after Rose's first year in the NBA like some people seem to think it is.  I also think Jennings has more room for improvement than Rose does (Rose already has the body fit for the NBA, while Jennings is really slim; Rose already has a great shot selection, while Jennings doesn't).  IF Jennings can improve on those things (which I think he can considering he just turned 20 years old), I think he has the potential to be the better all-around point guard.  Right now I would take Rose in a draft of point guards because he has proven that he has the shot selection and consistency that Jennings does not yet have.

I also think you make blind statements with no proof of them at all (see your statement about Rose's defensive potential vs. Jennings's...I can all but guarantee that you had no clue Jennings averaged over 1.2 steals to Rose's 0.7).  You make these statements like they are fact when you evidently do not have much knowledge of Jennings's game and numbers.  My guess is that you only watched Jennings play at most 4 times during the regular season (when they played the Bulls) and MAYBE 4 or 5 of the Bucks' playoff games.

Another of your blind, matter-of-fact statements that you make is that Evans isn't even in the same league as Rose.  You say you won't even address him because of this.  Please do.  I will as well.  Here are their numbers this year (Rose already has the HUGE advantage of having a year in the NBA behind him as well).
Rose: 20.8 ppg, 6 apg, 3.8 rpg, 2.78 turnovers/gm, 49% fg, 27% 3 point, 77% ft, 0.7 steals/gm
Evans: 20.1 ppg, 5.8 apg, 5.3 rpg, 3 turnovers/gm, 46% fg, 26% 3 point, 75% ft, 1.51 steals/gm
That's really not in the same league?  Don't give me the "Rose is the focal point of the defense every night and gets double teamed all over."  So does Evans.  At 6'6", 220 lbs, compared to Rose's 6'3" 190 lbs, Evans has a higher ceiling in both defense (over double the steals/gm) and rebounds.  They are pretty equal in their playmaking ability and their scoring ability.  I'm not sure I understand how Evans isn't even in Rose's league, so please address this.

[GGGG]

A non-chicago writer shares my opinion about lebron winning titles in chicago:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba

That article loses a lot of credence with me with the "Lebron lacks killer instinct" theme.  They said the same thing about Jordan when he lost to the Pistons for two years running...then they won and all that talk was forgotten. 

Without a supporting cast, he can't do anything.

[rocky_warrior]

I know it's the off-season....but convince me to keep this in the Al...wade's only been mentioned in a quote on this page  

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Here's two likely scenarios:

Lebron to Miami to team up with D Wade  OR.....


Lebron to Lakers for Odom,Bynum and 1st round draft pick!

[Doctor V]

Here's two unlikely scenarios:

Lebron to Miami to team up with D Wade  OR.....


Lebron to Lakers for Odom,Bynum and 1st round draft pick!

Fixed.

And to Rocky: Dwyane Wade is the best free agent in this class, and I can only hope the Bulls will land him 

In all honesty if Wade stays in Miami, or heads to NY or whatever, and Lebron ends up with the Bulls, it might be a tough future rooting wise as a Bulls fan.... If Lebron is winning championships that would mean that he is beating out DWade, and the last thing I would want to see is Wade having the luck of guys like Patrick Ewing

[Brewtown Andy]

By coming out early on about changing his number to 6 next year, LBJ has opened himself up to now play for the Bulls and not have to say to anyone that he couldn't go to the Bulls because he can't wear his normal 23.....just my story and I'm sticking to it...

The weird thing is that if he's changing teams, he doesn't have to announce that.  It's only for jersey sales.  If he changes teams, he can pick whatever number he wants.

[Brewtown Andy]

The bulk of Boston's success comes from over 25 years ago.

Bill Russell would like to argue that it's even further back.

[willie warrior]

Where LeBron goes does not really matter to me, but why have many ruled out Cleveland?

The max he can get from any other NBA team is 96 million for 5 years. Cleveland can give him 126 million for 6 years or 30 million for one additional year. The Cleveland deal is the best. And will he make that much more in endorsements in another market? After all, he already makes quite a bit in endorsements already in Cleveland.

[brewcity77]

I've heard more and more the past couple days about Wade, Bosh, and James planning to get together and possibly find a way for all three of them to play in the same city. One thing no one seems to be thinking of is that the NBA has a soft cap. The Bulls haven't previously gone over the luxury tax because Reinsdorf doesn't want to pay the tax if he doesn't feel he has a chance to win the title.

My guess is that if they go for James, it will be in a sign and trade deal, likely sending Luol Deng the other way, possibly Hinrich as well to keep the contracts in line. That would mean they still have enough money for one max player and one mid-level without going over the cap. But if they wanted to break over the cap, that would allow for all three.

The problem with this theory is that the Bulls bringing in all of the big three free agents would kill their ability to simply put together a roster. It'd give them a starting five of Rose, Wade, James, Bosh, and Noah, but their bench would only have Taj Gibson and James Johnson. Add in two rookies in the draft (dream scenario for me is Gordon Hayward and Jordan Crawford). After that, maybe a rookie free agent joins the bench (another dream, Lazar). That leaves five roster spots still to be filled. Joe Alexander may stay as a minimum player, possibly either Rob Kurz or Chris Richard, but that's a bench with pretty much no experience or quality, and unless Reinsdorf really doesn't care about the tax, I can't see any way all three would fit, though considering it is a soft cap, two could be a very realistic possibility.

That could put Wade in Chicago as well. Him and my dream of Lazar would be nice to have them close to home for recruiting purposes.

And before everyone blasts me, the dream scenario could also play out in Miami, New York, or New Jersey.

Oh, and willie, I think with Cleveland it's all about the title. They haven't been able to win one and rather than getting closer, seem to be getting further away. My guess is he'll sign elsewhere, but he'll only sign a three year deal. If he joins Chicago (or New York, or Miami, or the Clippers) for three years, he is then eligible for a Larry Bird rule contract. But if Cleveland can find a way to bring in another heavy-hitter free agent, there's every chance he could stay. But it won't be for money. He's got more money than he knows what to do with already, and an extra million a year for him would be the equivalent of one of us getting a ten-cent raise. At the end of the year, the extra couple hundred bucks might be nice, but you won't notice it on a weekly basis.

[oldwarrior81]

Rose, Deng, Noah, Hinrich and Gibson amount for $29 million per year.

With the anticipated cap to be around $55 that gives them about $26 million to sign free agents.  Plenty of room for one elite.  But would someone like Wade sign for less than the max? 

Shaq is the only free agent to walk away from money on the table.

[Aughnanure]

I've heard more and more the past couple days about Wade, Bosh, and James planning to get together and possibly find a way for all three of them to play in the same city. One thing no one seems to be thinking of is that the NBA has a soft cap. The Bulls haven't previously gone over the luxury tax because Reinsdorf doesn't want to pay the tax if he doesn't feel he has a chance to win the title.

My guess is that if they go for James, it will be in a sign and trade deal, likely sending Luol Deng the other way, possibly Hinrich as well to keep the contracts in line. That would mean they still have enough money for one max player and one mid-level without going over the cap. But if they wanted to break over the cap, that would allow for all three.

The problem with this theory is that the Bulls bringing in all of the big three free agents would kill their ability to simply put together a roster. It'd give them a starting five of Rose, Wade, James, Bosh, and Noah, but their bench would only have Taj Gibson and James Johnson. Add in two rookies in the draft (dream scenario for me is Gordon Hayward and Jordan Crawford). After that, maybe a rookie free agent joins the bench (another dream, Lazar). That leaves five roster spots still to be filled. Joe Alexander may stay as a minimum player, possibly either Rob Kurz or Chris Richard, but that's a bench with pretty much no experience or quality, and unless Reinsdorf really doesn't care about the tax, I can't see any way all three would fit, though considering it is a soft cap, two could be a very realistic possibility.

That could put Wade in Chicago as well. Him and my dream of Lazar would be nice to have them close to home for recruiting purposes.

And before everyone blasts me, the dream scenario could also play out in Miami, New York, or New Jersey.

Oh, and willie, I think with Cleveland it's all about the title. They haven't been able to win one and rather than getting closer, seem to be getting further away. My guess is he'll sign elsewhere, but he'll only sign a three year deal. If he joins Chicago (or New York, or Miami, or the Clippers) for three years, he is then eligible for a Larry Bird rule contract. But if Cleveland can find a way to bring in another heavy-hitter free agent, there's every chance he could stay. But it won't be for money. He's got more money than he knows what to do with already, and an extra million a year for him would be the equivalent of one of us getting a ten-cent raise. At the end of the year, the extra couple hundred bucks might be nice, but you won't notice it on a weekly basis.

If you are hearing the rumors that Wade, Bosh and James may all sign for one time then you must be hearing that the only real team associated with that is Miami. All they would really have to do is trade Beasley and with all the money coming off they actually can move in to that elusive three max cap territory. No other team is in a better position to go after 2 or 3 max cap players.

[Brewtown Andy]

Where LeBron goes does not really matter to me, but why have many ruled out Cleveland?

The max he can get from any other NBA team is 96 million for 5 years. Cleveland can give him 126 million for 6 years or 30 million for one additional year. The Cleveland deal is the best. And will he make that much more in endorsements in another market? After all, he already makes quite a bit in endorsements already in Cleveland.

To counter your point, I'm pretty sure Nike has $30 million laying around.

[wadesworld]

To counter your point, I'm pretty sure Nike has $30 million laying around.

Which Nike will give him either way.

[Doctor V]

Which Nike will give him either way.

Nike may prefer him in a bigger market. He is a huge icon as is, but they want to make him global ala MJ. As ridiculous as it sounds, dont be surprised if they push him to head to NYC or even Chicago, with the understanding that they will take care of that $30 deficit he would sign into

[JPapi2525]

My vote is Jersey.

+1, LeBron loves Jay-Z, their moving to Brooklyn soon, with LeBron, Lopez, and Wall as their core, not to mention Devin Harris and Courtney Lee, pretty solid team. Add one more role player and their a contender in the east.

[Brewtown Andy]

+1, LeBron loves Jay-Z, their moving to Brooklyn soon, with LeBron, Lopez, and Wall as their core, not to mention Devin Harris and Courtney Lee, pretty solid team. Add one more role player and their a contender in the east.

Slow down on them adding John Wall, at least until tomorrow night.