Tokoto Recaps Roy Williams Visit

[warthog-driver]

Not everyone oohs and awww at the schools rich white guys like.

You are excepting Wisconsin, of course

[ChicosBailBonds]

We ought not compare undergrad business schools since the reputations are really built on the MBA programs. My only gripe with the UW-Madison crowd is the unrealistic perception they have of their school. As I said, I went to an Ivy and to Ann Arbor for grad work and not once did I ever hear one person lament, "well, I couldn't get into Wisconsin so I had to settle for Harvard/Michigan..." Those pricks in Madison over rate themselves. They are like the Field Marshall Montgomery's of the academic world...

I was comparing undergrad business schools.

MBA programs are another story

[ChicosBailBonds]

Now if you're the single parent of a highly prized "One and Done" recruited living in public housing amidst gang violence, your list of schools is much different (to be clear, I'm NOT talking about JPT here).  It's headed by Kentucky because "Coach Cal" has the thing you need the most ... the biggest bag of cash.

More than likely, Coach Cal has one of the best chances for the kid to make the NBA.  With every eyeball in the world on coach Cal and Kentucky, there sure seems to be a lot of cash that can't be found.

[Lennys Tap]

But as we all know here, MU has only sent one more kid to the NBA than UW in the last decade.   


And UNC sends a crapload more than MU or UW combined.

UNC also has a "crapload" of McDonald's All Americans who never sniff the NBA. Buzz's best argument when recruiting guys like Tokoto is Wes Mathews, a "third wheel" for three seasons at MU who he coached/unleashed for one season and who's (against all odds) the highest paid 2nd year guy in the league. They're the same type of player coming out of high school, though JP is a little taller, more athletic and more highly regarded.

[ChicosBailBonds]

UNC also has a "crapload" of McDonald's All Americans who never sniff the NBA. Buzz's best argument when recruiting guys like Tokoto is Wes Mathews, a "third wheel" for three seasons at MU who he coached/unleashed for one season and who's (against all odds) the highest paid 2nd year guy in the league. They're the same type of player coming out of high school, though JP is a little taller, more athletic and more highly regarded.

Of course some McDonalds All Americans are going to miss, but at the end of the day Roy Williams is going to be able to say that they play in Final Fours (four this past decade alone), they play for national titles at a high rate (two this past decade), they 3X as many players in the NBA as we do right now....12 at last count, and he gets to join a special fraternity that includes people like Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Vince Carter, and 50 other guys that are household college basketball names, they get to play in the best rivalry game in college basketball (Duke vs UNC), etc.

That's a strong pull.  I hope he comes to MU, but I suspect it's UNC or UW-madison.

[StillAWarrior]

Another thought ... this is the response of a typical middle-aged, middle-class white suburban father of a white son in a well-to-do suburban school.  I know this because I'm close to this demographic and this would be my response.

Their list of schools is will often include Duke, ND, Stanford, An Ivy and the Big State University.

And by the way, we don't know if this is true because since 1995, When Garnett jumped from high school to the NBA (and started the "modern era" of coming out early), no white player has ever left school early and made it to the NBA.

Now if you're the single parent of a highly prized "One and Done" recruited living in public housing amidst gang violence, your list of schools is much different (to be clear, I'm NOT talking about JPT here).  It's headed by Kentucky because "Coach Cal" has the thing you need the most ... the biggest bag of cash.

School choice is a matter of demographic and what is important to you.  Not everyone oohs and awww at the schools rich white guys like.

Can't disagree with any of that.

[6746jonesr]

Unless he plans to play point guard, I don't see him going to Wisconsin.  While Bo's system serves his team well, I just don't see it preparing people for the next level, unless you are at the point guard.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Sorry, "did".  I was typing on my Blackberry.  Whatever your profession, I'm sure there are people who can't stand those of you in that line of work too.  Doesn't mean all are bad 07.  Just sayin.

And based on your two baseless posts, I'm sure there are people who hate you even above and beyond the fact that you're a lawyer. But maybe making false accusations is par for the course for you as a lawyer.

[thanooj]

Boom! agree... weird

Further I'd argue that though JP may 'love' coach roy and Coach bo, maybe he sours on some of Roy's assistants or really loves buzz's assistants. I can only speculate. But I think that the assistant coaches play a large role in recruiting, though the players may not talk about that.

I thought this was a very good point. 

What about conference choice.  ACC vs. Big Ten vs. Big East vs. SEC?  Does the Big East, which is arguably the best basketball conference top to bottom, send more kids to the nba than any of the others?  Are Big East players more prepared and ready for the nba than any of the others?  As much as anything else I would think this would be a part of the decision for JP and his family. 

[Lighthouse 84]

And based on your two baseless posts, I'm sure there are people who hate you even above and beyond the fact that you're a lawyer. But maybe making false accusations is par for the course for you as a lawyer.

Go back and reread.  No false accusations were made by me.  I was just making a point that every profession has some bad and good people in it and don't lump all lawyers in the "ambulance chaser" group.  I'm not sure why you've got such hostility towards lawyers.  One of us may even help you out one day.  Or maybe we won't.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought this was a very good point.  

What about conference choice.  ACC vs. Big Ten vs. Big East vs. SEC?  Does the Big East, which is arguably the best basketball conference top to bottom, send more kids to the nba than any of the others?  Are Big East players more prepared and ready for the nba than any of the others?  As much as anything else I would think this would be a part of the decision for JP and his family.  

At last count in December, the ACC led with 56 NBA players despite having 12 teams.  Big East was second at 54.  Pac Ten third with 48 followed by the Big 12 and the SEC.  The Big Ten was 6th with 29.


UCLA has the most currently with 14.  Duke & Kentucky with 13 each.  Kansas and North Carolina with 12.


Where Current NBA Players Come From by Division I Conference, Non-Division I College, High School, and Foreign Origin


                       # Schools W/   Players    Avg. # NBA
Conference (# teams)    NBA Players   in NBA    Players/Team
Pacific 10 (10)              8          48         4.8
Atlantic Coast (12)         11          56         4.7
Big 12 (12)                 11          41         3.4
Big East (16)               16          54         3.4
Southeastern (12)            9          40         3.3
Big Ten (11)                 9          29         2.6
Mountain West (9)            6          10         1.1
Conference USA (12)          6          12         1.0
Western Athletic(9)          4           9         1.0
Atlantic 10 (14)             6          11         0.8
West Coast (8)               4           5         0.6
Colonial (12)                3           5         0.4
Sun Belt (12)                3           5         0.4
Missouri Valley (10          2           3         0.3
Horizon (10)                 2           2         0.2
Mid-American (12)            2           2         0.2
Southern (12)                2           2         0.2
Great West (7)               1           1         0.1
Ivy League (8)               1           1         0.1
Big Sky (9)                  1           1         0.1
Big South (10)               1           1         0.1
Metro Atlantic (10)          1           1         0.1
Ohio Valley (10)             1           1         0.1
Summit (10)                  1           1         0.1
Southland (12)               1           1         0.1
America East (9)             0           0         0.0
Atlantic Sun (11)            0           0         0.0
Big West (9)                 0           0         0.0
Independents (7)             0           0         0.0
Mid-Eastern (11)             0           0         0.0
Northeast (12)               0           0         0.0
Patriot (8)                  0           0         0.0
Southwestern (10)            0           0         0.0
Total Division I           112         342
                   Non-Division I        4
                   High School          31
                   Foreign              59
                   Total in NBA        436


Division I Schools Ranked by Number of Players in NBA

                       No. Players
School                    In NBA
UCLA                        14
Duke                        13
Kentucky                    13
Kansas                      12
North Carolina              12
Connecticut                 11
Arizona                     10
Texas                       10
Florida                      9
Wake Forest                  8
Georgia Tech                 7
LSU                          7
Memphis                      7
Ohio St.                     7
Syracuse                     7
Michigan St.                 6
Stanford                     6
Southern Cal                 5
Washington                   5
Alabama                      4
California                   4
Florida St.                  4
Georgetown                   4
Louisville                   4
Marquette                    4
Maryland                     4
Nevada                       4
Oklahoma St.                 4
UNLV                         4
Villanova                    4
Xavier                       4
Arkansas                     3
Cincinnati                   3
DePaul                       3
Fresno St.                   3
Illinois                     3
Indiana                      3
Kansas St.                   3
Michigan                     3
Notre Dame                   3
Oklahoma                     3
Pittsburgh                   3
Purdue                       3
Texas A&M                    3
Arizona St.                  2
Boston College               2
Creighton                    2
Florida Int.                 2
Gonzaga                      2
Massachusetts                2
Miami-FL                     2
Minnesota                    2
Missouri                     2
New Mexico                   2
Northeastern                 2
N.C. St.                     2
Oregon                       2
Saint Joseph's               2
South Florida                2
Va. Commonwealth             2
West Virginia                2
Western Kentucky             2
Auburn                       1
Baylor                       1
Bradley                      1
Butler                       1
Central Michigan             1
Clemson                      1
Colorado                     1
Colorado St.                 1
Davidson                     1
Detroit                      1
Eastern Michigan             1
Eastern Wash.                1
George Washington            1
Harvard                      1
Hawaii                       1
Iowa                         1
Iowa St.                     1
IUPUI                        1
La Salle                     1
Louisiana Tech               1
Marshall                     1
Mississippi                  1
Portland                     1
Providence                   1
Rhode Island                 1
Rider                        1
Rutgers                      1
Santa Clara                  1
Seton Hall                   1
SMU                          1
South Carolina               1
St. John's                   1
St. Mary's                   1
TCU                          1
Tennessee                    1
Tennessee-Martin             1
Texas St.                    1
Texas Tech                   1
Towson                       1
Tulsa                        1
UALR                         1
UCF                          1
Utah                         1
Utah Valley                  1
UTEP                         1
Virginia                     1
VMI                          1
Western Carolina             1
Wisconsin                    1
Wyoming                      1
Total Division I           342
Non-Division I               4
High School                 31
Foreign                     59
Total in NBA               436

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Go back and reread.  No false accusations were made by me.  I was just making a point that every profession has some bad and good people in it and don't lump all lawyers in the "ambulance chaser" group.  I'm not sure why you've got such hostility towards lawyers.  One of us may even help you out one day.  Or maybe we won't.

Maybe I can sue you for libel for this and we can find out how good of a lawyer you are?

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=23880.msg265083#msg265083

[Ari Gold]

Maybe I can sue you for libel for this and we can find out how good of a lawyer you are?

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=23880.msg265083#msg265083

on behalf of Lighthouse 84, we apologize for pooping in your cereal.

[MerrittsMustache]

And by the way, we don't know if this is true because since 1995, When Garnett jumped from high school to the NBA (and started the "modern era" of coming out early), no white player has ever left school early and made it to the NBA.

Not sure if this was meant to be sarcastic but it simply isn't true.

Robert Swift went straight from HS to the NBA. B.J. Mullens, Kosta Koufos, Josh McRoberts, Jason Smith, Kevin Love, Joe Alexander, Ryan Anderson, Trent Plaisted, Spencer Hawes, Chase Budinger, Gordon Hayward, Cole Aldrich, Luke Babbit are all white guys who left school early in just the last few years and made it to the NBA.

Also, Blake Griffin is half-white...and I think the Lopez brothers are too 

[StillAWarrior]

Also, Blake Griffin is half-white...

Apparently not the half that plays basketball...

[ATL MU Warrior]

Apparently not the half that plays basketball...

You almost just made gag on a diet coke I was drinking!  Well done.

[StillAWarrior]

You almost just made gag on a diet coke I was drinking!  Well done.

Griffin has become very popular at our house.  My son loves him.  It's hard not to when watching him play with such a reckless disregard for his safety.  Even my wife, who has only a passing interest in basketball, is a fan.  Over the years there typically has been one player at a time that catches her attention.  First it was David Robinson.  More recently Dwight Howard.  She's moved on to Griffin and is really looking forward to the slam dunk contest.

[4everwarriors]

Hopefully this won't cause anyone here to question my love for Marquette's program, but if my son had the options Tokoto has (a man's got to dream, right), I'd have a hard time pushing him too hard to go to Marquette.  Make no mistake, I would push a little, but not too hard.  This kid has great options, and as much of a homer as I am, I can't honestly say that I think Marquette is his best option.  I hope he comes, but I'd be totally shocked.

Some of the most sensible words you'll ever read on this board.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Apparently not the half that plays basketball...

LOL...that was very funny.  Nicely done.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Took me awhile, but I finally found the source of Ari's anger or, ahem, bitterness.

Ari thinks that when I made an analogy with the law school and lawyers that I was attacking him, because he somehow thinks he is connected to the law. However, in no way would I associate him with the legal field so I could not have been attacking him while attacking lawyers. If he wants to make the case that he's associated with the law, he can. Applying once for law school doesn't count.

[Goose]

I think if he stays in state it is MU for obvious reasons..he is an athlete and MU recruits and gets athletes. Two years ago many on here thought no chance for Jamil Wilson and MU was in heart from day one. Do not count out the Warriors!!!

[Lighthouse 84]

Took me awhile, but I finally found the source of Ari's anger or, ahem, bitterness.

Ari thinks that when I made an analogy with the law school and lawyers that I was attacking him, because he somehow thinks he is connected to the law. However, in no way would I associate him with the legal field so I could not have been attacking him while attacking lawyers. If he wants to make the case that he's associated with the law, he can. Applying once for law school doesn't count.

On behalf of Ari, and the rest of us in the legal profession, I hope you get out of prison soon and don't have to continue being some guy's biotch much longer.  It's the only thing that would make someone so bitter and angry about lawyers.

[Ari Gold]

Took me awhile, but I finally found the source of Ari's anger or, ahem, bitterness.

Ari thinks that when I made an analogy with the law school and lawyers that I was attacking him, because he somehow thinks he is connected to the law. However, in no way would I associate him with the legal field so I could not have been attacking him while attacking lawyers. If he wants to make the case that he's associated with the law, he can. Applying once for law school doesn't count.

'

woah woah woah #false.
I make a quip about someone sounding angry and bitter and then there is this..woah
woah woah

[Ari Gold]

[warthog-driver]

Not sure if this was meant to be sarcastic but it simply isn't true. Robert Swift went straight from HS to the NBA. B.J. Mullens, Kosta Koufos, Josh McRoberts, Jason Smith, Kevin Love, Joe Alexander, Ryan Anderson, Trent Plaisted, Spencer Hawes, Chase Budinger, Gordon Hayward, Cole Aldrich, Luke Babbit are all white guys who left school early in just the last few years and made it to the NBA. Also, Blake Griffin is half-white...and I think the Lopez brothers are too 

This is all well and good but the point was that most caucasian basketball players follow a more traditional route to the show. I would expect a budding NBA PG like Josh Gasser to take just such a path.