Steve Wojciechowski likes results of Marquette's practices

[keefe]

He was upset about his role.  Neither you nor I have no idea what Buzz told him, or what he chose to hear, during the recruiting process.

It had nothing to do with him being a Juco...Fr. Wild...etc.

As I said, he was upset about how he was going to be employed.

[GGGG]

As I said, he was upset about how he was going to be employed.

But that's not all you said.  You also said that "he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role" and that "this was all about Bert."

I have no doubts that he didn't like his role and that's why he left.  However I think you are leaping to conclusions that Buzz told him something different.  You don't know that.  That is a guess on your part.

[MU82]

In your mind, perhaps "I don't expect" = "I predict NEVER", but I consider "I don't expect" a few shades short of "I predict NEVER".

Actually, that's 2 within a 37-year span.  Oh, and neither coach stayed on.  They both chose to leave for what they considered greener pastures due to concerns over recruiting to Marquette.  The first elite eight only happened due to an incredible stroke of recruiting luck, the second due to recruitment of player(s) that Buzz was concerned he could no longer get enrolled at Marquette.

I do hope to be proven wrong.  But - particularly in recruiting - Wojo is going to have to find his own way.  And he'll have a reduced pool of players to recruit from, so he'll have to recruit better than Buzz did just to have the same caliber of player.  Coach K did wonders at Duke, can Wojo repeat that success here?  Well, while Wojo was selective about the job he took, he'll have lees to work with than Coach K did at Duke.  Coach K was reviving a school with a strong tradition of success in men's basketball, and he was doing it in what was then and is now again the preeminent men's basketball conference.  Realistically, Marquette will not challenge Duke as an academic institution any time soon, so that was another advantage Coach K could sell.

Maybe Wojo challenges Duke for recruits (I doubt it), maybe Marquette becomes the "safe school" for players who wanted to go to Duke but ultimately didn't get an offer (there's incredible competition for even that spot).  Wojo was a very solid hire with some great potential, but the challenge he faces is daunting.  I don't sell either Wojo or the challenge he faces short.  When I see a couple of top 20 recruiting classes, I'll start to open up my expectations.

I shouldn't have used hyperbole to reflect what you said, so I apologize for that.

I stand by the fact that Marquette has reached the Elite Eight or beyond twice since 2003 -- because it is, well, a fact. Plus, two Sweet 16s.

So I refuse to say "I don't expect" another deep tourney run. Because I have full confidence that it is quite possible. And I am not a blue-and-gold-glasses-wearing, pollyanna, Kool-Aid drinker but a pretty pragmatic guy who realizes how difficult it is to make it through the Chico's Crapshoot that is the NCAA tourney!

I hope to be proven right!

[keefe]

But that's not all you said.  You also said that "he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role" and that "this was all about Bert."

I have no doubts that he didn't like his role and that's why he left.  However I think you are leaping to conclusions that Buzz told him something different.  You don't know that.  That is a guess on your part.

I personally heard nothing first hand. But if McKay made a life decision and left abruptly because he was dissatisfied with how he was going to be used don't you think that differed from what he was told during his recruitment? From what I'm told this was about Bert and a change in McKay's projected use.

[GGGG]

I personally heard nothing first hand. But if McKay made a life decision and left abruptly because he was dissatisfied with how he was going to be used don't you think that differed from what he was told during his recruitment? From what I'm told this was about Bert and a change in McKay's projected use.

He also had a lot of family members whispering things in his ear about what his role should be.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I personally heard nothing first hand. But if McKay made a life decision and left abruptly because he was dissatisfied with how he was going to be used don't you think that differed from what he was told during his recruitment? From what I'm told this was about Bert and a change in McKay's projected use.

Trying to draw logical conclusions based on the decisions of twenty year olds is not reliable.

[Class71]

I would argue that Marquette doesn't need a top 50 academic program to survive.  In fact I think it could make a big mistake trying to enter that market.  It does not have the resources right now to compete for the faculty and students that this would require.

That is what the BOT believes and I must disagree with them. The expense for a college education is increasingly less justified as graduates find fewer and lower paying jobs. Small businesses and the trades are increasingly becoming better alternatives for some. BOT understands that and is their reason for the direction they taken. May disagree but that is the direction of the school.

[dgies9156]

Dear Big Jesuit in the Sky:

I am really getting tired of the whining around the Marquette University basketball program. Remember how your son changed water into wine, opened the eyes of the blind man and rose the dead? Cutting off the whiners, the naysayers and the angry jilted fans should be comparatively easy!

Big Jesie, as you know, we just hired a new basketball coach. He's a good guy, came from a great program and promises to do the best he can to replicate the success of your servant, St. Al of Brookfield. Next to your son, St. Al has the most statues and commemorations on campus. But I digress. Our new coach came when our old coach jilted us for the land of Hogs, Hooch and Hillbillies. So all your servants who wear the blue and gold and are under 45 have a massive inferiority complex.

I won't repeat it except to say every element of Coach Wojo's business has been questioned. And the guy hasn't even coached a game yet! You've hinted that life isn't fair, but this is ridiculous.

So, Big Jesie, by the intercession of St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, please make the whining go away. And, if we could win a another national championship, we'd appreciate that too!

[keefe]

He also had a lot of family members whispering things in his ear about what his role should be.

What I heard is that his posse wasn't concerned about 4 v 5 so much as the number of shots he would get

[Lennys Tap]

Silliness?  Since the 1977 national title, Marquette has been to what? two elite eights?  I can think of the 2003 final four and 2013.  It's become clear to me that Buzz leaving (both his motivation and the schools) is largely about limiting the pool from which Marquette can recruit players.  Wojo has yet to show that he can put together a a season of coaching like Buzz did in 2010.  Wojo could bring a return to the limited recruiting of the Crean era.  A lot is still to be determined.  Marquette will remain a solid program.  The current BOT would be uncomfortable with the McGuire era.  The things that made Marquette basketball unique then (a coach at war with the NCAA, who constantly worked the officials and who got frequent technicals, a player cutting down the nets with a switchblade) would cause the current BOT to cringe.  I just feel that Marquette is becoming a vanilla program with great resources and a squeeky clean coach that will do well, but lacks what it takes to get to the next level.

I really hope to be proven wrong.

You are 100% correct, Murs. There is zero evidence that MU can compete at the elite level in basketball trying to be Duke North, Stanford East or Notre Dame Northwest. We didn't become the country's #2 college program by being exclusive regarding admissions. We did it with plenty of JUCOs, transfers and guys from high school's so poor/inferior that it was nearly impossible for them to qualify using Marquette's normal standards. I knew and was friendly with a lot of them. Great guys, smart guys from backgrounds much tougher than my own. Guys whom I'm proud to call fellow alumni. In the 35 years post Al, we've made it to the second weekend of the tournament 5 times - once with KO, once with Crean, three times with Buzz. The Crean run was only possible because of a prop 48 and 2 of Buzz's 3 were fueled by JUCOs.

I think we'll be okay going forward. I like what I've seen and heard from Wojo so far. The Crean years sans Wade (and without the constant embarrassment of having a total douche as the face of Marquette basketball) is probably the ceiling. Not bad, but certainly not the elite status that was likely under Buzz.

Those who were embarrassed that guys like Jerome Whitehead, Earl Tatum, Dwyane Wade, Jae Crowder, etc., were admitted to MU can celebrate. I won't.

[Lennys Tap]

What I heard is that his posse wasn't concerned about 4 v 5 so much as the number of shots he would get

In that case, good riddance.

[Class71]

Dear Big Jesuit in the Sky:

I am really getting tired of the whining around the Marquette University basketball program. Remember how your son changed water into wine, opened the eyes of the blind man and rose the dead? Cutting off the whiners, the naysayers and the angry jilted fans should be comparatively easy!

Big Jesie, as you know, we just hired a new basketball coach. He's a good guy, came from a great program and promises to do the best he can to replicate the success of your servant, St. Al of Brookfield. Next to your son, St. Al has the most statues and commemorations on campus. But I digress. Our new coach came when our old coach jilted us for the land of Hogs, Hooch and Hillbillies. So all your servants who wear the blue and gold and are under 45 have a massive inferiority complex.

I won't repeat it except to say every element of Coach Wojo's business has been questioned. And the guy hasn't even coached a game yet! You've hinted that life isn't fair, but this is ridiculous.

So, Big Jesie, by the intercession of St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, please make the whining go away. And, if we could win a another national championship, we'd appreciate that too!

Rumor has it, there is more to life than ... Fill in the blanks. So why go into a panic?

[keefe]

Hogs

What the hell you got against Hogs??

Go Ugly Early!

[GGGG]

That is what the BOT believes and I must disagree with them. The expense for a college education is increasingly less justified as graduates find fewer and lower paying jobs. Small businesses and the trades are increasingly becoming better alternatives for some. BOT understands that and is their reason for the direction they taken. May disagree but that is the direction of the school.

But the issue is that you limit the pool.  And lots of people go after that pool.  And they have more resources. 

[Wojo'sMojo]

You are 100% correct, Murs. There is zero evidence that MU can compete at the elite level in basketball trying to be Duke North, Stanford East or Notre Dame Northwest. We didn't become the country's #2 college program by being exclusive regarding admissions. We did it with plenty of JUCOs, transfers and guys from high school's so poor/inferior that it was nearly impossible for them to qualify using Marquette's normal standards. I knew and was friendly with a lot of them. Great guys, smart guys from backgrounds much tougher than my own. Guys whom I'm proud to call fellow alumni. In the 35 years post Al, we've made it to the second weekend of the tournament 5 times - once with KO, once with Crean, three times with Buzz. The Crean run was only possible because of a prop 48 and 2 of Buzz's 3 were fueled by JUCOs.

I think we'll be okay going forward. I like what I've seen and heard from Wojo so far. The Crean years sans Wade (and without the constant embarrassment of having a total douche as the face of Marquette basketball) is probably the ceiling. Not bad, but certainly not the elite status that was likely under Buzz.

Those who were embarrassed that guys like Jerome Whitehead, Earl Tatum, Dwyane Wade, Jae Crowder, etc., were admitted to MU can celebrate. I won't.

Was this season part of Brent's plan to make us one of the elites?

[keefe]

You are 100% correct, Murs. There is zero evidence that MU can compete at the elite level in basketball trying to be Duke North, Stanford East or Notre Dame Northwest. We didn't become the country's #2 college program by being exclusive regarding admissions. We did it with plenty of JUCOs, transfers and guys from high school's so poor/inferior that it was nearly impossible for them to qualify using Marquette's normal standards. I knew and was friendly with a lot of them. Great guys, smart guys from backgrounds much tougher than my own. Guys whom I'm proud to call fellow alumni. In the 35 years post Al, we've made it to the second weekend of the tournament 5 times - once with KO, once with Crean, three times with Buzz. The Crean run was only possible because of a prop 48 and 2 of Buzz's 3 were fueled by JUCOs.

I think we'll be okay going forward. I like what I've seen and heard from Wojo so far. The Crean years sans Wade (and without the constant embarrassment of having a total douche as the face of Marquette basketball) is probably the ceiling. Not bad, but certainly not the elite status that was likely under Buzz.

Those who were embarrassed that guys like Jerome Whitehead, Earl Tatum, Dwyane Wade, Jae Crowder, etc., were admitted to MU can celebrate. I won't.

Lenny

There is no question Al was willing to take risks and it worked out largely because Al had the personality, charisma, and sincerity to pull it off. Not every coach can handle the risk management dimensions of that recruiting strategy.

Frankly, Bert failed in that several incidents happened on his watch that are unacceptable at any college. Moreover, his gross mismanagement of those problems only exacerbated the situation. It is one thing to have poor risk management procedures but in Bert's case he didn't seem to have any and therefore did many things that were just wrong - legally and ethically.

Bert demonstrated an ability to win. Like Al, he took chances on kids from the fringes. Unlike Al, his stewardship was characterized by horrible events that were made worse by his utter lack of judgment. I appreciated Bert's success on the court but I despise the man for what he enabled and contributed to outside the lines. Character has nothing to do with winning basketball games.   

[Class71]

But the issue is that you limit the pool.  And lots of people go after that pool.  And they have more resources. 
[/quote


 There are tradeoffs in life.  Focus only on basketball and we may become LSU, rank 135. I love basketball but the quality of the school's academics needs to be in the discussion. Maybe I am wrong but I think most go to school to improve their standard of living through I better education. Basketball is great for many reasons but ...

[dgies9156]

What the hell you got against Hogs??

Go Ugly Early!

I believe the "hog" is being rotated out of the air force fleet?

Nothing particular against hogs. They taste good, especially with bbq sauce, stadium sauce or as a smoked breakfast meat. But to bolt a fine city like Milwaukee for a land where the cultural highlife is the Smithfield Packing Company -- or something like that -- is, well, weird.

Incidentally, before you ask, I have nothing against Hooch either! I grew up in Tennessee.

[willie warrior]

He also had a lot of family members whispering things in his ear about what his role should be.

Now how the hell do you know that?

[Dawson Rental]

Dear Big Jesuit in the Sky:

I am really getting tired of the whining around the Marquette University basketball program. Remember how your son changed water into wine, opened the eyes of the blind man and rose the dead? Cutting off the whiners, the naysayers and the angry jilted fans should be comparatively easy!

Big Jesie, as you know, we just hired a new basketball coach. He's a good guy, came from a great program and promises to do the best he can to replicate the success of your servant, St. Al of Brookfield. Next to your son, St. Al has the most statues and commemorations on campus. But I digress. Our new coach came when our old coach jilted us for the land of Hogs, Hooch and Hillbillies. So all your servants who wear the blue and gold and are under 45 have a massive inferiority complex.

I won't repeat it except to say every element of Coach Wojo's business has been questioned. And the guy hasn't even coached a game yet! You've hinted that life isn't fair, but this is ridiculous.

So, Big Jesie, by the intercession of St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, please make the whining go away. And, if we could win a another national championship, we'd appreciate that too!

Just to clarify about my posts in this thread, the words were not my own, but the words revealed to me by Big Jesuit during a visitation.  Awestruck as I was in his presence, I still questioned my sanity until the end of his visitation when I witnessed his ascension to what could only be described as the front door of the 'Lanche.

p.s. During the visitation I asked if I might be visited by St. Al, himself, to which Big Jesie replied; "St. Al never visits until after he's received his appearance check".

[Dawson Rental]

What I heard is that his posse wasn't concerned about 4 v 5 so much as the number of shots he would get

If he could have hit the three pointer with any consistency, his posse might have been proven right this past year.  Of course, you can't promise that to a player from the git go, but had he stayed and been able to hit, he would have had a lot of playing time.  (Assuming, of course, that both Buzz being psychotically wed to his rotation, and Buzz deliberately tanking this season are not true.)  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I love Al as much as the next warrior, but if he coached Marquette in today's age, he would not be viewed as the saint he is now. The pc standards, social media, and 24 hour news cycle would have made him a different coach or to be fired.

[Dawson Rental]

I love Al as much as the next warrior, but if he coached Marquette in today's age, he would not be viewed as the saint he is now. The pc standards, social media, and 24 hour news cycle would have made him a different coach or to be fired.

We never got to see Al, the elder statesman.  If he could have forced himself to stick to "coaching guys in short pants", I think he would have been seen eventually as a funnier, more entertaining version of Rick Pitino.  (And, of course without the peccadillos from his pecker).

[Dawson Rental]

But the issue is that you limit the pool.  And lots of people go after that pool.  And they have more resources. 

There are tradeoffs in life.  Focus only on basketball and we may become LSU, rank 135. I love basketball but the quality of the school's academics needs to be in the discussion. Maybe I am wrong but I think most go to school to improve their standard of living through I better education. Basketball is great for many reasons but ...

This discussion got me interested in the relative academic rankings of Marquette and Virginia Tech.  In the national universities rankings, Marquette is 75 and VT is 69.  It seems logical to me to assume that VT was only able to lure Buzz by promising more enrollment flexibility for basketball players than Marquette was now willing to allow.  This would seem to imply that VT has a greater belief in the power of a top basketball program to generate donations and recruit top students.

[Lennys Tap]

This discussion got me interested in the relative academic rankings of Marquette and Virginia Tech.  In the national universities rankings, Marquette is 75 and VT is 69.  It seems logical to me to assume that VT was only able to lure Buzz by promising more enrollment flexibility for basketball players than Marquette was now willing to allow.  This would seem to imply that VT has a greater belief in the power of a top basketball program to generate donations and recruit top students.

Virginia Tech must have some smart folks in their administration.