Steve Wojciechowski likes results of Marquette's practices

[ChicosBailBonds]

Virginia Tech must have some smart folks in their administration.

Marquette  0 times on NCAA probation

Vagina Tech  5 times on NCAA probation in basketball and football alone.  Also on probation for other sports


Maybe the smarter folks are elsewhere, the ones that have kept MU as a program that has more than one NCAA appearance in 28 years like Vagina Tech.   Nevertheless, I expect Brent to do well with his new found sandbox and a leash as long as he likes.

[Lennys Tap]

Was this season part of Brent's plan to make us one of the elites?

This year's demise has been well chronicled. Not Buzz's best year, but his star player left unexpectedly (and unwisely) and had to be replaced by a walk on. His JC AA front court guy bailed before the season started and the guy he was fighting for a job had a terrible year. But in four years with his own guys Buzz had 2 Sweet 16s, an Elite 8, back to back 14-4 seasons (including a championship) in basketball's toughest conference. If that's not elite to you, fine, but back to back to back seasons like Buzz put together haven't happened at MU in almost 40 years. Believe me, when Wojo takes us into the second weekend 3 straight seasons no MU fan will be cheering louder than me. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[Lennys Tap]

Marquette  0 times on NCAA probation

Vagina Tech  5 times on NCAA probation in basketball and football alone.  Also on probation for other sports


Maybe the smarter folks are elsewhere, the ones that have kept MU as a program that has more than one NCAA appearance in 28 years like Vagina Tech.   Nevertheless, I expect Brent to do well with his new found sandbox and a leash as long as he likes.

Times Teams coached by Buzz Williams on probation: 0

[GGGG]

This discussion got me interested in the relative academic rankings of Marquette and Virginia Tech.  In the national universities rankings, Marquette is 75 and VT is 69.  It seems logical to me to assume that VT was only able to lure Buzz by promising more enrollment flexibility for basketball players than Marquette was now willing to allow.  This would seem to imply that VT has a greater belief in the power of a top basketball program to generate donations and recruit top students.

You are making the assumption that just because a university is ranked higher, that it is more difficult to get in to.

[Wojo'sMojo]

This year's demise has been well chronicled. Not Buzz's best year, but his star player left unexpectedly (and unwisely) and had to be replaced by a walk on. His JC AA front court guy bailed before the season started and the guy he was fighting for a job had a terrible year. But in four years with his own guys Buzz had 2 Sweet 16s, an Elite 8, back to back 14-4 seasons (including a championship) in basketball's toughest conference. If that's not elite to you, fine, but back to back to back seasons like Buzz put together haven't happened at MU in almost 40 years. Believe me, when Wojo takes us into the second weekend 3 straight seasons no MU fan will be cheering louder than me. I'm not holding my breath, though.

You make a lot of excuses for last year. The fact remains that we were the preseason favorite to win our league and Brent had an awful coaching year. McKay left in all likelihood, because Brent was dishonest with him when he was recruited. Also, we didn't have to start the walk on, that was Brent's choice and IMO a pretty poor one. He constructed the roster last year and he has nobody to blame but himself for how things shook out. He was not the end all be all and I expect Wojo to return the team to a very high level.

[Dawson Rental]

You are making the assumption that just because a university is ranked higher, that it is more difficult to get in to.

Good point.

[Dawson Rental]

You make a lot of excuses for last year. The fact remains that we were the preseason favorite to win our league and Brent had an awful coaching year. McKay left in all likelihood, because Brent was dishonest with him when he was recruited. Also, we didn't have to start the walk on, that was Brent's choice and IMO a pretty poor one. He constructed the roster last year and he has nobody to blame but himself for how things shook out. He was not the end all be all and I expect Wojo to return the team to a very high level.

And you seem to discount the fact that Buzz had the first run of three sweet sixteens (the last one an elite eight) since Al McGuire.

I don't want this to become a Buzz v. Wojo debate because with no Buzz, I think that Wojo was a very good hire.  But, I don't foresee three sweet sixteens in his first six years here, let alone three in a row with an elite eight as one of them.  And that's with Wojo starting with much more younger talent than Buzz did.   Buzz had the three amigos and Dwight Burke, but for only one year.  Wojo will have JJJ, Deonte and Dawson for (hopefully) three, Fischer for 2.5, and Taylor for two, and Duane Wilson and Cohen for (hopefully) four.

My problem is that I think people underestimate how much Buzz accomplished and the size of the challenge facing Wojo, not Wojo himself who was a very good get for Marquette.

[Lennys Tap]

McKay left in all likelihood, because Brent was dishonest with him when he was recruited.

Exhibit A of the typical front running, fair weather fan. When McKay left it was was good riddance, if he can't hack it, his bad. Buzz leaves and many hear pull the old 180, poor McKay, Buzz probably lied to him, etc. Could anything be more transparent or pathetic?

[Lennys Tap]

And you seem to discount the fact that Buzz had the first run of three sweet sixteens (the last one an elite eight) since Al McGuire.

I don't want this to become a Buzz v. Wojo debate because with no Buzz, I think that Wojo was a very good hire.  But, I don't foresee three sweet sixteens in his first six years here, let alone three in a row with an elite eight as one of them.  And that's with Wojo starting with much more younger talent than Buzz did.   Buzz had the three amigos and Dwight Burke, but for only one year.  Wojo will have JJJ, Deonte and Dawson for (hopefully) three, Fischer for 2.5, and Taylor for two, and Duane Wilson and Cohen for (hopefully) four.

My problem is that I think people underestimate how much Buzz accomplished and the size of the challenge facing Wojo, not Wojo himself who was a very good get for Marquette.

+ one gazillion

[Lennys Tap]

You make a lot of excuses for last year.

First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, well, they were idiots.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Exhibit A of the typical front running, fair weather fan. When McKay left it was was good riddance, if he can't hack it his bad. Buzz leaves and many hear pull the old 180, poor McKay, Buzz probably lied to him, etc. Could anything be more transparent or pathetic?

I never said good riddance to McKay when he left. I was actually dumbfounded and confused when I heard the news. You just lump everyone together when they don't agree with everything your man crush Brent does. That is what is really sad and pathetic. Do you think he has ever done anything wrong? Are you going to be able to function next year when he's not patrolling the sidelines?

[wadesworld]

First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

Lenny I back Bert up for the results he brought to MU, but I really wish I was as big of an idiot as guys like Jay Wright, JT3, etc. You know, those idiots that voted MU as the #1 team in the preseason BE poll. They know nothing about basketball.

And who do you put the blame on for only having Derrick, Jake, John D, and JJJ as our options at the 1/2? Who put the roster together?

Blaming Blue's leaving early is lame. Roster turnover happens everywhere. Kentucky did alright with a lot of players leaving early last year. Why not blame Jamail Jones? Had he stuck around Buzz could've used him. He was a top 100 recruit who would've been an upper classman had he not transferred out of MU. Jamal Ferguson really screwed Bert over too last year, hey? Nope, Buzz did not put together a good roster. His own fault. Nobody else's.

[real chili 83]

I love Al as much as the next warrior, but if he coached Marquette in today's age, he would not be viewed as the saint he is now. The pc standards, social media, and 24 hour news cycle would have made him a different coach or to be fired.

Aggie,

Respectfully, you never met Al. 

Al could pull it off. 

Would he adapt?  Yes. 

Would  he be Al?

YES!!!

[dgies9156]

Just to clarify about my posts in this thread, the words were not my own, but the words revealed to me by Big Jesuit during a visitation.  Awestruck as I was in his presence, I still questioned my sanity until the end of his visitation when I witnessed his ascension to what could only be described as the front door of the 'Lanche.

p.s. During the visitation I asked if I might be visited by St. Al, himself, to which Big Jesie replied; "St. Al never visits until after he's received his appearance check".

1) Someone went to Mass today!

2) So St. Peter is the eternal bouncer?

3) You got that part of St. Al absolutely right.

Look, on a more serious note, guys comparing the world Al coached in to today is like comparing a Kaypro to current PC (how many here know what a Kaypro is?). It was a different world then -- heck, Marquette wouldn't today tolerate the kind of students we were back then. We drank, we partied hard, we were totally irreverent and Al McGuire was nothing more than the public face of our university.

I don't know how many NatChamps Coach Wojo will bring us. There's always the possibility that he's another Mike Deane, or, God forbid, Bob Dukiet. But I doubt it. This guy is for real.

A lot of us would have liked Buzz to stay. Get over it. He's gone and won't be back. Neither will Tommy Crean have "MKE" on his bag tags anytime soon. We can whine about the reason why, scream about "woe is me," or we can start saving money to buy tickets so Coach Wojo and the team knows we care.

St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, deliver us from this malaise and intercede with our Savior to bring us the next national title we so richly deserve. Oh, and your check is in the mail!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Aggie,

Respectfully, you never met Al. 

Al could pull it off. 

Would he adapt?  Yes. 

Would  he be Al?

YES!!!

Actually, I did meet Al. Several times. I was only a wee lad at the time but I still remember it clearly. And it was obviously long after his coaching days were over.

My point in making that post was that a lot of the things all did would have blown up in the media had they happened today. Cutting down the nets with a switchblade? The media would have had a field day. Going to war with the NCAA? You get fined for comments like that nowadays. Any administration would eventually be forced to reign a coach like that in. My proof is that coaches like Al no longer exist. The closest we get are the Coach Ks and the Rick Pitinos of the world and they are a far cry from Al's fire.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You are making the assumption that just because a university is ranked higher, that it is more difficult to get in to.

+1.

The other thing to keep in mind is size of university. It is very easy to "hide" athletes at large state institutions. If a student doesn't see any basketball players in classes it's not a big deal, they assume that they are in one of the 10 sections of the same class. It is easier to create degree plans with "lighter loads." Hell, I know of some universities where football players can take all of their classes online *cough* ALABAMA *cough* It is also easier to bury an athlete's records amongst all the others. FERPA is a great law but athletic departments often hide behind it.

Not all of these protections are available at Marquette. We all know the basketball players are comm majors. If they aren't showing up for class, people will notice it. We don't offer completely online degrees.

We will never consistently get the one and done type players. Duke is the only private school that has that ability and I think it will fade after Coach K retires. We however can consistently get top 100 kids with the occasional 5 star. That kind of recruiting will bring you plenty of success.

[bilsu]

Actually, I did meet Al. Several times. I was only a wee lad at the time but I still remember it clearly. And it was obviously long after his coaching days were over.

My point in making that post was that a lot of the things all did would have blown up in the media had they happened today. Cutting down the nets with a switchblade? The media would have had a field day. Going to war with the NCAA? You get fined for comments like that nowadays. Any administration would eventually be forced to reign a coach like that in. My proof is that coaches like Al no longer exist. The closest we get are the Coach Ks and the Rick Pitinos of the world and they are a far cry from Al's fire.

I miss Willie Wampum waving his tomahawk at the opposing team. Those were the good old days.

[GGGG]

Actually, I did meet Al. Several times. I was only a wee lad at the time but I still remember it clearly. And it was obviously long after his coaching days were over.

My point in making that post was that a lot of the things all did would have blown up in the media had they happened today. Cutting down the nets with a switchblade? The media would have had a field day. Going to war with the NCAA? You get fined for comments like that nowadays. Any administration would eventually be forced to reign a coach like that in. My proof is that coaches like Al no longer exist. The closest we get are the Coach Ks and the Rick Pitinos of the world and they are a far cry from Al's fire.

Al was smart enough to understand the political environment in which he operated.  He would have adjusted.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny I back Bert up for the results he brought to MU, but I really wish I was as big of an idiot as guys like Jay Wright, JT3, etc. You know, those idiots that voted MU as the #1 team in the preseason BE poll. They know nothing about basketball.

And who do you put the blame on for only having Derrick, Jake, John D, and JJJ as our options at the 1/2? Who put the roster together?

Blaming Blue's leaving early is lame. Roster turnover happens everywhere. Kentucky did alright with a lot of players leaving early last year. Why not blame Jamail Jones? Had he stuck around Buzz could've used him. He was a top 100 recruit who would've been an upper classman had he not transferred out of MU. Jamal Ferguson really screwed Bert over too last year, hey? Nope, Buzz did not put together a good roster. His own fault. Nobody else's.

What new? The Big East coaches have a history of being idiots when it comes to predicting results for Buzz's teams. After years of underrating us they finally overrated us.

As for blaming Buzz the GM for not having adequate replacements available for unexpected departures I'm on record in agreement with you, but comparing Blue's situation to the lottery picks that everyone knows will be leaving Kentucky every year? C'mon, man, that's being idiotic too.

[ChicosBailBonds]

First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

But but but preseason predictions are all the rage and rock solid.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

What new? The Big East coaches have a history of being idiots when it comes to predicting results for Buzz's teams. After years of underrating us they finally overrated us.

As for blaming Buzz the GM for not having adequate replacements available for unexpected departures I'm on record in agreement with you, but comparing Blue's situation to the lottery picks that everyone knows will be leaving Kentucky every year? C'mon, man, that's being idiotic too.

How about the preseason polls, not the coaches...those so reliable preseason polls that had MU in the top 15.  Idiots also?   

This is fun

[ChicosBailBonds]

I would argue that Marquette doesn't need a top 50 academic program to survive.  In fact I think it could make a big mistake trying to enter that market.  It does not have the resources right now to compete for the faculty and students that this would require.

This is an interesting concept.  I don't know the answer, but do you think MU is in a tough spot here.  They charge a lot for tuition, etc to attend.  Thus, if you are going to spend that kind of money, you want a quality school behind it.  75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however.  Thus, if MU tries to get to that level to justify the cost, can they do it with your comments in mind?

If they cannot, what is the alternative?  They certainly aren't going to charge less with the labor costs they have.  Tough spot.

[GGGG]

Blaming Blue's leaving early is lame. Roster turnover happens everywhere. Kentucky did alright with a lot of players leaving early last year. Why not blame Jamail Jones? Had he stuck around Buzz could've used him. He was a top 100 recruit who would've been an upper classman had he not transferred out of MU. Jamal Ferguson really screwed Bert over too last year, hey? Nope, Buzz did not put together a good roster. His own fault. Nobody else's.

Well there is quite a bit of difference between unexpectedly losing your top returning scorer and expectedly losing two players buried deep on the bench.

I completely agree with you that Buzz is primarily to blame mostly due to not having recruited adequate replacements, but it is hardly "lame" to say that Blue leaving early wasn't a significant factor.  From all accounts, Buzz didn't know Blue was leaving until April of last year, and since they were all full scholarship wise, probably hadn't spent a lot of time recruiting for additional 2013 players.  

The fact is that Blue unexpectedly leaving early was a significant reason why they underperformed last year.

[GGGG]

This is an interesting concept.  I don't know the answer, but do you think MU is in a tough spot here.  They charge a lot for tuition, etc to attend.  Thus, if you are going to spend that kind of money, you want a quality school behind it.  75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however.  Thus, if MU tries to get to that level to justify the cost, can they do it with your comments in mind?

If they cannot, what is the alternative?  They certainly aren't going to charge less with the labor costs they have.  Tough spot.

Think of all college bound high school students as a pyramid.  At the very top you have the elite students.  As you decrease in academic strength, you increase in the number of students at that level.  If you try to chase the top of that pyramid, you are going after a relatively smaller pool of students and you don't have a lot of the resources your competition has.

If you go after that "next level" you are still going after very good students, but you are playing in a larger pool with schools that have similar resources.  And I think MU can be very competitive here.

And don't say stuff like "75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however."

That's nonsensical.  Remember that most of what these ratings are based on are inputs (what the quality of the student body is like entering school.)  Your Marquette education will not fundamentally change either way.  And "fit" is more important than these rankings anyway.

[ChicosBailBonds]

First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

Lots of "idiots" apparently

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40285.25