NFC North Pissing Match

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, I've already show that not to be necessarily true.  You picked 60 for no real reason other than it was 20 points lower than the average.  If that's not an arbitrary number, then I don't know what is.  Again, why did you use 20?  Why not 10 or 30?  Personally I would say any game under 70 is a bad game and anything over 90 is a good game.  In between is prolly pretty average.  Of course, there is nothing set in stone to say what is or is not a good/bad passer rating.  

As posted previously:

# of Games Below 40 Passer Rating:
Aikman - 2/16
Favre - 0/22
Advantage: Favre

# of Games Below 50 Passer Rating:
Aikman - 2/16
Favre - 0/22
Advantage: Favre

# of Games Below 60 Passer Rating:
Aikman - 2/16
Favre - 5/22
Advantage: Aikman

# of Games Below 70 Passer Rating:
Aikman - 5/16
Favre - 5/22
Advantage: Favre

# of Games Below 80 Passer Rating:
Aikman - 7/16
Favre - 7/22
Advantage: Favre

Favre did have some talent around him, I'm not saying he didn't, but it would be quite disingenuous to say that he had the same array of weapons available as Aikman did.

Sigh....I picked 60 because of what the average was, very simple.  Your numbers are hilarious.  A crapty performance is a crapty performance.  You make it sound like someone that got a D- is somehow worldly better if they got a D...that's basically what you're saying in your analysis.  crapty is crapty.  Play crapty, you lose.  Play great, you win.

As you've been unable to this day to accept, despite the data, when someone has a really crappy day...60 or under (that's crappy), Favre had more of those than ANY of the great QB's, which is a major reason they lost.  Favre also had fewer great games (100 or higher) than any of the great QB's, which is why on a percentage basis he has won at barely a 50% clip.

Want Favre to be considered the best ever or even top 5, he needs to play better in big games.  He hasn't...the data is there staring you in the face.  I'm sorry you don't want accept it.

[Jay Bee]

Hmm, looks like VaJay Jay is 0-1.  This is the first time I've ever been happy that any University of Wisconsin sports team won.

  I wish I could say this was the first time a young person wanted to bang me, but I cannot.

  The Gophers game was disappointing.  Disturbing, disgusting.  But, fun to be forced to bring in a flask and watch football outside in the rain.  As of now I'm saying my prayers for the Twins and am hopeful.  Monday is a great situation - the Consensus loses, not a big deal, still tied for first place.  Win, a fly on the NFC North Wall is 2-2 and a long-haired jag is 8-12.  WIN TWINS!!

[jmayer1]

Sigh....I picked 60 because of what the average was, very simple.  Your numbers are hilarious.  A crapty performance is a crapty performance.  You make it sound like someone that got a D- is somehow worldly better if they got a D...that's basically what you're saying in your analysis.  crapty is crapty.  Play crapty, you lose.  Play great, you win.

As you've been unable to this day to accept, despite the data, when someone has a really crappy day...60 or under (that's crappy), Favre had more of those than ANY of the great QB's, which is a major reason they lost.  Favre also had fewer great games (100 or higher) than any of the great QB's, which is why on a percentage basis he has won at barely a 50% clip.

Want Favre to be considered the best ever or even top 5, he needs to play better in big games.  He hasn't...the data is there staring you in the face.  I'm sorry you don't want accept it.

Sigh...it appears you can't comprehend simple data.  How does 60 correlate to 80?  Was the standard deviation 20?  Why do you believe 60 is a better standard than 50 or 70 (you have not answered this question because the fact is you picked 60 arbitrarily)?

I agree Favre has had a some crappy performances in the playoffs.  Aikman, statistically, has had more crappy performances in the playoffs.  Plain and simple.

I can't believe I've actually wasted my time arguing that Favre is better than Aikman.  In nearly everybody's opinion, Favre is the better qb by a mile.  Agree to disagree I guess.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sigh...it appears you can't comprehend simple data.  How does 60 correlate to 80?  Was the standard deviation 20?  Why do you believe 60 is a better standard than 50 or 70 (you have not answered this question because the fact is you picked 60 arbitrarily)?

I agree Favre has had a some crappy performances in the playoffs.  Aikman, statistically, has had more crappy performances in the playoffs.  Plain and simple.

I can't believe I've actually wasted my time arguing that Favre is better than Aikman.  In nearly everybody's opinion, Favre is the better qb by a mile.  Agree to disagree I guess.

Don't tell that to Ron Wolf.     The discussion really wasn't about Aikman vs Favre necessarily, it was basically all Super Bowl winning QBs vs Favre who has led his team to many more playoff losses by % than any of the other great QBs.   

I always love the comments like "better than a mile"....talk about statistical integrity.  LOL.


I told you why I used 60...because it's considered crappy.   Look up the QB efficiency ratings and see what they determine to be Great, good, average, crappy.   Great = 100+, good = 90+, average = 78.3, crappy equals 60 or lower.

I hope I've finally gotten through now.....below 60 = CRAPPY.  THAT'S WHY I CHOSE IT.  SIGH


Favre has had a ton of crappy games by %.  He's had fewer great games by % (100 or higher rating).  Why is this so difficult to understand?

[MU B2002]

What no one have any beverages today?  The scoop is piss free.

Bears put up some points yesterday, but let's hope the injuries were all minor.


Prediction for tonight:

Vikes 28
Pack 14

Peterson 24 carries for 160 yards and 3 tds.

Favre, throws a pick early and is not a factor either way.

[NavinRJohnson]

Well, Favre played great and won his Super Bowl. In the end none of that really matters...The Packers had their butts whipped to a good team on the road. That's what matters...kinf of. I say kind of because the Packers look as if they just may not be very good. Their O-line is a mess, their safties are worse, and they can't get any pressure. We'll see, they should get a bit healthier after they bye, and theoretically get better as we move along, just as I still expect Favre and the Vikings to get worse as we move along. Obviously, the loss should not come as a surprise to anyone. The only positive you can really take as a Packer fan tonight is the excellent job they did on Peterson.

Finally, how on earth does ESPN continue to make their MNF team worse year after year? Gruden makes me miss John Madden, and I am not just saying that. Are there people out there who actually think they are enjoyable to listen to? Just ridiculous.

[Moonboots]

Good game by old #4.  Never had the one in the dome marked down as a win, and a few errors on early drives drove us down.

Happy that they didn't pack it in or let it get ugly at the end there.  

And that Allen dude looked pretty solid against 2nd and 3rd string left tackles.  

Packers just weren't as sharp on the road as the Vikes were at home, and this game ultimately ended up being a dropped TD away from overtime.

On we go.

Bye for the Pack to get healthy. Vikes get Ravens and Steelers, Packers get Lions and Browns, and then the Favre slide begins. Things will even out in due time.

For the time being, however, that's a heck of a football game for that guy.

[MUEng92]

Will someone tell McCarthy to tell the defensive line that they don't have to count to eight bananna before they can rush the QB!

[NavinRJohnson]

Things will even out in due time.

For the time being, however, that's a heck of a football game for that guy.

True. I'm sure Vikings fans are excited, but last year at this point, his QB rating was basically identical to what it is now...including a 289 yd, 6 TD, 124 Passer rating performance against Arizona.

Maybe a bot better than I thought he'd be tonoght, but things going pretty much as expected thus far. As I said, he won his Super Bowl tonight. We'll see what happens the next 13 weeks.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

True. I'm sure Vikings fans are excited, but last year at this point, his QB rating was basically identical to what it is now...including a 289 yd, 6 TD, 124 Passer rating performance against Arizona.

Maybe a bot better than I thought he'd be tonoght, but things going pretty much as expected thus far. As I said, he won his Super Bowl tonight. We'll see what happens the next 13 weeks.

Favre played well, better than Tjack or Sage has ever played, so I hope everybody sees why the Vikes wanted him instead of their other options.

As far as what happens later in the season, I don't really know. I'll keep checking in here so you guys can let me know when I can get excited.

PS Rodgers is a good QB, GB probably made the right move... but it's just hard to replace a legend.

[MUfan12]

Favre was absolutely fantastic tonight. No two ways about it.

Anyone still think the Packers are a 10 win team? Hard to do it with no safeties and no offensive line.

[Moonboots]

Favre was absolutely fantastic tonight. No two ways about it.

Anyone still think the Packers are a 10 win team? Hard to do it with no safeties and no offensive line.

Truer words never spoken.  Luckily, there's a week to get healthy and both Clifton and Bigby should be back by then.  If Thompson has half a brain, Tauscher will be in Packers camp by Wednesday.

Consider for a moment... the Packers turned the ball over twice deep in Vikings territory.  They dropped a TD pass. They had an interception taken away that perhaps shouldn't have been.  And with all that, they lost by 7.  At the dome.  If anyone still thinks these two teams aren't that close, you're crazy.  Protection is an issue right now.  If it gets figured out, the Packers WILL win this division.

[Jay Bee]

Packers are not good.  I think Erin is a good little quarterback, but he's 8-12...c'mon.

I thought Jared would have a great game but oh lawd..

Great time at the dome, thanks GB for making a semi-appearance at times, good luck to ya..

The Consensus was the Consensus for a reason.  Namely, we are the best team in the division by a mile and then some.  V-I-K-I-N-G-S. SKOL, VIKINGS, LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spartan3186]

Truer words never spoken.  Luckily, there's a week to get healthy and both Clifton and Bigby should be back by then.  If Thompson has half a brain, Tauscher will be in Packers camp by Wednesday.

Consider for a moment... the Packers turned the ball over twice deep in Vikings territory.  They dropped a TD pass. They had an interception taken away that perhaps shouldn't have been.  And with all that, they lost by 7.  At the dome.  If anyone still thinks these two teams aren't that close, you're crazy.  Protection is an issue right now.  If it gets figured out, the Packers WILL win this division.

The interception wouldn't have counted either way. The Packers were offsides on the same play.

[Moonboots]

Packers are not good.  I think Erin is a good little quarterback, but he's 8-12...c'mon.

I thought Jared would have a great game but oh lawd..

Great time at the dome, thanks GB for making a semi-appearance at times, good luck to ya..

The Consensus was the Consensus for a reason.  Namely, we are the best team in the division by a mile and then some.  V-I-K-I-N-G-S. SKOL, VIKINGS, LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great analysis as always.  You should donate yourself to science for research, because you're a modern marvel in the fact that you're a grown man with the capacity for reason of a three year old.  If any of those words are too big for you, ask nicely, and I'll be happy to define them.

Brett has just about matched his performance through 4 weeks last season.  Now comes the tough part of the schedule for the Vikes, and the cupcakes roll in for Green Bay after the bye.  Will "the consensus" be able to hold their ground in the North before the Favre slide? And where do the Bears fall in all this?  

[Moonboots]

The interception wouldn't have counted either way. The Packers were offsides on the same play.

Allegedly.  I watched the play again, and no one jumped, and no one appeared to line up in the neutral zone.  The referee didn't give a number on the play, so either it was a cornerback who was off the screen at the snap, or it was a blown call.  And a heck of a play by Woodson.

[Jay Bee]

Brett has just about matched his performance through 4 weeks last season.  Now comes the tough part of the schedule for the Vikes, and the cupcakes roll in for Green Bay after the bye.  Will "the consensus" be able to hold their ground in the North before the Favre slide? And where do the Bears fall in all this?  

  Ahh yes,... the tough part.. like when Cincy came to visit Green Bey.  Gotcha.  Favre is leagues better than our options we were looking at several weeks ago.  Bless his soul.  So glad to have him on God's squad now, after he's relinquished the demons of drugs and women,... I can understand why as a younger man he went towards that in Green Bey... but, he's with the Consensus now and we are solid, deep, and the hands down best in the division.  Mullet Man with 4.5 sacks.. I knew he'd eat your line up, but 4.5?  Unreal.  SKOL VIKINGS, all up in your eyeball.  4-0 vs. 2-2.  Erin Rodgers is not a winner.  Love him all you want, but he's not a winner.  Favre is.  The Minnesota Vikings' Brett Favre is.

[Moonboots]

  Ahh yes,... the tough part.. like when Cincy came to visit Green Bey.  Gotcha.  Favre is leagues better than our options we were looking at several weeks ago.  Bless his soul.  So glad to have him on God's squad now, after he's relinquished the demons of drugs and women,... I can understand why as a younger man he went towards that in Green Bey... but, he's with the Consensus now and we are solid, deep, and the hands down best in the division.  Mullet Man with 4.5 sacks.. I knew he'd eat your line up, but 4.5?  Unreal.  SKOL VIKINGS, all up in your eyeball.  4-0 vs. 2-2.  Erin Rodgers is not a winner.  Love him all you want, but he's not a winner.  Favre is.  The Minnesota Vikings' Brett Favre is.

Those last two sentences are quite poetic. I'm sure you're happy with yourself.  But God's squad? Really?  The Cowboy fans often said that they put a hole in the roof at Dallas Stadium so "God could watch His team play."  By the same token, they put a dome over Minnesota so God wouldn't be forced to watch that trash play. 

Mullet Man certainly got his revenge after having his sh*t wrecked last season by Chad Clifton.  If he gets the match up with the 3rd string rookie left tackle again in week 8, the results will be pretty much the same.  I wouldn't bet on that happening though.

This "solid, deep" team played quite literally a perfect game. Not a penalty called against them.  Make of that what you will.  Benefitted from a drop in the end zone.  And only won by a touchdown at home. 

Payback will be a b*tch at Lambeau. And I'll be sure to let you hear about it.

[GGGG]

Consider for a moment... the Packers turned the ball over twice deep in Vikings territory.  They dropped a TD pass. They had an interception taken away that perhaps shouldn't have been. 

Remember that there was also a Packer off sides on that play, so it would have been taken back even if there was no PI call on Woodson.

[MUBBau]

Packers are not good.  I think Erin is a good little quarterback, but he's 8-12...c'mon.

I thought Jared would have a great game but oh lawd..

Anyone see the FOX pregame show where they showed why Terry Bradshaw likes Twitter?

[GOMU1104]

Kudos to the Vikings, they played a flawless game.

But for GB...Where was the pressure? It's hard to get a pass rush when you only bring 3. That was my biggest problem with the game. Even with the OL problems, GB still had chances to get close...but you have to get off the field on 3rd down.  Give Favre 7.5 seconds to find an open reciever, and hes going to convert. That just cant happen.

They sat back and rushed 3, instead of bringing the pressure...something that this Defensive scheme needs to do to be succesful.

Moving on...get healthy during the Bye, and get things figured out against DET and CLE...get to 4-2 and get revenge on Nov 1st.

[mu_hilltopper]

Consider for a moment... the Packers turned the ball over twice deep in Vikings territory.  They dropped a TD pass. They had an interception taken away that perhaps shouldn't have been.  And with all that, they lost by 7.  At the dome.  If anyone still thinks these two teams aren't that close, you're crazy.  Protection is an issue right now.  If it gets figured out, the Packers WILL win this division.

Disagree.  While the score says they "lost by 7" you do realize it "wasn't that close" right?   The Vikings last 3-4 drives were conservative drives to waste time, which so often works poorly and you give the ball up after 3 plays. 

Yes, GB scored some points last night, although 7 was on a fluke defensive strip.  The biggest positive GB can take away from yesterday was that you contained AP to 55 yards. -- True, your QB racked up a bunch of yards, but a good 100 of them were in the 4th quarter, while MN was playing prevent defense (poorly).

These two teams were not that close.  Do I expect a MN win in 3 (?) weeks when we play again?   It'll be a much closer game, especially, as you admit, if they get their O-line in order.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

In the post game show Steve Young and Matt Millen were talking a lot about how Favre's injury last season effected his play.

I know some of you guys think his late season fades had to do with his age, but could his injury be the reason he played poorly the second half of last season?

I'll need to see more to be "convinced", but it does make sense because he looks pretty sharp so far this year after having surgery.

[LON]

In the post game show Steve Young and Matt Millen were talking a lot about how Favre's injury last season effected his play.

I know some of you guys think his late season fades had to do with his age, but could his injury be the reason he played poorly the second half of last season?

I'll need to see more to be "convinced", but it does make sense because he looks pretty sharp so far this year after having surgery.

Well, considering he had enough time to order a pizza and bang my mom before anyone broke through the line...

[NavinRJohnson]

The more I think about this, the better I feel about it as a Packer fan, and the more concerned I would be as a Viking fan. It meant the world to Favre and that is his problem - all about him, and I predict a bit of a letdown for him til Lambeau. Pretty obvious he quit last year too.  He played hurt and cost them the playoffs to keep the record going, then quit, and then called them out and got them fined.    Then they have to watch that last night…..That tells it all.  Wow does he get a hall pass.

I cherish the memories and appreciate his talent, but I really have lost all respect for him as a man.  He proved it last night too, by throwing an absolutely stupid pass trying to send a dagger instead of milking the clock.  That gave the Packers 2 chances and an extra minute, and you could tell Childress was miffed. That is the moment that kind of stood out for me. Childress may want to give Mike Sherman a call.