NFC North Pissing Match

[Jay Bee]

Sigh! Getting over it might be a good idea. I'm not trying to set myself up for anything. I suggested before he even signed that it was a bad idea. That they would ultimately be better off without him.

I am talking about Childress and Favre working together to put up games with QB Ratings in the 40's or 50's, when they have the best player in football lining up at RB, and those days are coming. They did their best to do it yesterday...46 pass attempts to 27 rushing attempts. If Lewis' foot comes down 1 inch to the left, that is the discussion today, and it would be legitimate.

  For the current season, the fact is the we are better with Favre at QB than Tarvaris or Sage.  You continue to believe that Favre makes us worse and his signing was a bad idea - that is just idiotic.  We needed to throw the ball yesterday.  Peterson did much better this time compared to the first time he played the 49ers (14 carries, 3 yards), but they were on him again yesterday.  Favre needed to make plays and he made them.  You will not find many, if any, Vikings fans that will tell you they believe Tarvaris takes us on that final drive and we get a victory. 

  Handle your own business when you're at home and a 10 point favorite, then come talk to me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

 What are some of these comments you're referring to?  What players said these things?  A bunch of gutless punks with anonymous paraphrased quotes?  
  The biggest issue the Jets had last year is that they had an injured QB playing and an otherwise horrid team.  Their coach and management illegally kept the QB's injury a secret.  CHEATERS!  

MU_B2002 - you think Green Bey fans don't care about Favre yesterday?  You're flippin crazy.  Even JSonline has pictures dedicated to him.  Facebook was lit up with Packers fans crying, "damn it 49ers!".  This isn't a typical situation of 'guy played with a team for a long time, now is elsewhere, so people have moved on'.  That's just not factual.  Many Packer fans care very much about how Favre does this season.

???

Because they are anonymous the feelings of the players don't count?  Or are less credible?  I don't think so.  Players move from team to team and don't want that following them, so I would totally expect them to be anonymous comments.



"There was a lot of resentment in the room about him," one Jets player told Newsday on Wednesday. The player requested anonymity because he did not want to jeopardize his own employment with the Jets, whose owner, Woody Johnson, has already publicly stated that Favre is welcome to return next season if the 39-year-old quarterback wants to keep playing.

"He never socialized with us, never went to dinner with anyone," the player said. Asked to describe Favre in a word, the player said: "Distant."

"If he's dedicated and he wants to come back and do this, and do it the right way . . . and be here when we're here in training camp and the minicamps and working out with us.... then I'm fine with it," Kerry Rhodes said on Monday. "But don't come back if it's going to be halfhearted or he doesn't want to put the time in with us."

"If he was hurt by that stuff, I'd be shocked because Eric barely said anything to him," the player said of Favre. "Guys would be getting called out for missed assignments or blown coverages, and Brett would have three picks and no one would say a word."

According to the player - and backed by very supportive comments about Mangini from other Jets - very few in the room felt that Mangini deserved to be fired, and that the acquisition of Favre and Favre's subsequent me-first attitude hurt the Jets more than anything.

"Eric wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs," he said.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why do you still expect fans of an opposing team, that happens to be the same team said QB used to play for, to compliment the play of Brett Favre.  Did he win the game yesterday?  Yes.  Do GB fans care? No.  Are they waiting for him to fail, so they can laugh and point fingers? Yes. Accept it, and move on.

This seems in line with what you are talking about

http://deadspin.com/5369251/truth-in-labeling

[Jay Bee]

Because they are anonymous the feelings of the players don't count?  Or are less credible?  I don't think so.  Players move from team to team and don't want that following them, so I would totally expect them to be anonymous comments.

  You decided the Jets are doing better in large part due to Brett not being there, "based on the comments from players", yet the comments you're 'kind of citing' have no player attached to them - YES, I am absolutely saying the comments from 'scared player 1, pansy player 2, girly player 3' are less credible because we don't know who (alledgedly) said them and no one has taken ownership of them.  The 'story' is less credible. 
  I'd be more perturbed by some young jag posing in GQ than I would be by an older guy not going out to dinner with me.  But, I guess it's working out for everyone.. Navin is happy Favre is with Minnesota because she believes it makes us worse and Navin is ga ga over Erin Rodgers... Chicas is happy Favre is not in NY because he finds Mark Sanchise to be hot and Favre to have been an awful cancer that blew their potentially great season a year ago... and I'm happy with having Favre on our roster this season. 

[wadesworld]

 You decided the Jets are doing better in large part due to Brett not being there, "based on the comments from players", yet the comments you're 'kind of citing' have no player attached to them - YES, I am absolutely saying the comments from 'scared player 1, pansy player 2, girly player 3' are less credible because we don't know who (alledgedly) said them and no one has taken ownership of them.  The 'story' is less credible.  
  I'd be more perturbed by some young jag posing in GQ than I would be by an older guy not going out to dinner with me.  But, I guess it's working out for everyone.. Navin is happy Favre is with Minnesota because she believes it makes us worse and Navin is ga ga over Erin Rodgers... Chicas is happy Favre is not in NY because he finds Mark Sanchise to be hot and Favre to have been an awful cancer that blew their potentially great season a year ago... and I'm happy with having Favre on our roster this season.

VaJay-Jay you act like a 3 year old.  Trying to be like Halie, your boy Em's daughter?  Sick beatz son!

By the way, want to throw down some 40s (also interesting little fact...your quarterback is that many years old!) before the game next Monday night over some mix tapes?!  I can bring some of my male college friends, as you have stated to be looking for them!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sigh! Getting over it might be a good idea. I'm not trying to set myself up for anything. I suggested before he even signed that it was a bad idea. That they would ultimately be better off without him. That his age, health, conditioning and style of play would lead to poor performances and bad decisions that will cost the Vikings games. Bad decisions not only on the part of Favre, but Childress as well.

I still think Favre is better than anything else they had, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, which is no big deal.

Time will of course tell the tale...but if the defense blows a game in the playoffs and I come here to say I told you so, well then that would make me a bit of an idiot wouldn't it? Yes, you would. I'm just envisioning the joy that some packer fans will take in watching the Vikes eventually go down, and I know I'll hear a lot of "I guess Brett's not so great, huh?", and I'll still have the same answer: "Better than anything else they had".

I am not talking about the Vikings losing in the playoffs which is all you seem to want to focus on. I am talking about Childress and Favre working together to put up games with QB Ratings in the 40's or 50's, when they have the best player in football lining up at RB, and those days are coming. They did their best to do it yesterday...46 pass attempts to 27 rushing attempts. If Lewis' foot comes down 1 inch to the left, that is the discussion today, and it would be legitimate.

I agree with you, this is a concern. However, this is a different debate than the one about Brett's skills diminishing. This is a question of if Childress is an idiot. Brett certainly has some input on the offense, but he's not calling all of the plays.

If you think the pass/run ratio is a mistake, I think that's a "childress is a bad coach issue", not a "Brett Favre is too old and is a bad signing issue".

I have never claimed that Childress is a great coach, but I do think Brett still has enough game to be successful with the personnel on this team, which is where you and I disagree.

[NavinRJohnson]

 
  Handle your own business when you're at home and a 10 point favorite, then come talk to me.

I wasn't talking to you, but thanks for chiming in anyway.

[Jay Bee]

VaJay-Jay you act like a 3 year old.  Trying to be like Halie, your boy Em's daughter?  Sick beatz son!

By the way, want to throw down some 40s (also interesting little fact...your quarterback is that many years old!) before the game next Monday night over some mix tapes?!  I can bring some of my male college friends, as you have stated to be looking for them!

  "VaJay-Jay you act like a 3 year old" -- hilarious.  That's like when people type, "your stupid".  

  Favre isn't 40.  Your dad probably isn't either.  I was wondering where you had run off to.. you must be busy taking those 12 credits this semester.  Hmmmph, and I had you pegged as someone who loved a big load.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

  You decided the Jets are doing better in large part due to Brett not being there, "based on the comments from players", yet the comments you're 'kind of citing' have no player attached to them - YES, I am absolutely saying the comments from 'scared player 1, pansy player 2, girly player 3' are less credible because we don't know who (alledgedly) said them and no one has taken ownership of them.  The 'story' is less credible. 
  I'd be more perturbed by some young jag posing in GQ than I would be by an older guy not going out to dinner with me.  But, I guess it's working out for everyone.. Navin is happy Favre is with Minnesota because she believes it makes us worse and Navin is ga ga over Erin Rodgers... Chicas is happy Favre is not in NY because he finds Mark Sanchise to be hot and Favre to have been an awful cancer that blew their potentially great season a year ago... and I'm happy with having Favre on our roster this season. 

Aye Caramba. Yes, I find Mark Sanchez hot.    The Jets are doing better this year because so far, at least, their QB isn't turning the ball over.  Also, they have a new coach. 

The Vikings, I'm not sold yet.  We'll see.  They've played 2 awful teams and a good sans Frank Gore and it took a miracle (at home) to win.  As the season progresses, I think more and more teams will make Favre beat them (thus 40+ pass attempts).  How that plays out will be interesting to follow.

[NavinRJohnson]

"If you think the pass/run ratio is a mistake, I think that's a "childress is a bad coach issue", not a "Brett Favre is too old and is a bad signing issue".

But that is exactly why it is a bad signing issue, and has been my point all along. He is going to ask/allow Favre to do things that he may no longer be capable of, and Favre will be all too willing to go along with it. Every ill advised pass attempt is a carry that AP s not getting. Every INT takes a possession away and takes the ball out of AP's hands, and leads to points that potentially make the Vikings play from behind, meaning more passing and even less AP, etc.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

"If you think the pass/run ratio is a mistake, I think that's a "childress is a bad coach issue", not a "Brett Favre is too old and is a bad signing issue".

But that is exactly why it is a bad signing issue, and has been my point all along. He is going to ask/allow Favre to do things that he may no longer be capable of, and Favre will be all too willing to go along with it. Every ill advised pass attempt is a carry that AP s not getting. Every INT takes a possession away and takes the ball out of AP's hands, and leads to points that potentially make the Vikings play from behind, meaning more passing and even less AP, etc.

Yea, but that's an coaching issue, not a "Brett Favre can't play anymore" issue.

If Childress is a crappy coach and calls a crappy game, that's not Brett Favre's fault. Just like it's not AP's fault if he only gets 15 carries/game.

If the Packers signed Adrian Peterson, and then threw the football 65 times per game (while losing), that doesn't mean AP is a bad player and was a bad signing. It means the coaching staff doesn't call the right plays to take advantage of their personnel.

You might be right about Childress + Favre, but let's not blend the 2 arguments because they are very different.

STATEMENTS:

1. Brett Favre is too old and has diminishing skills. He still thinks he can be a hero, but in reality he can't make all of those plays anymore, and therefore, Brett Favre was a bad signing.

2. Brad Childress is foolish and thinks the metrodome is a time machine that will let Brett Favre return to his 1996 form, so he wants to throw the ball often instead of running it and therefore, Brett Favre is a bad signing.

Statement #1 is about the player's performance

Statement #2 is about the coach's performance

[NavinRJohnson]

I will blend whatever arguments I want, because that has been my position all along. A has been player + a never will be coach = a bad combination. You may feel the need to separate the two, but I don't.

[Jay Bee]

I will blend whatever arguments I want, because that has been my position all along. A has been player + a never will be coach = a bad combination. You may feel the need to separate the two, but I don't.

  You don't feel the need for simple logic.  Typical Packers talk.  What can't Favre do anymore?  Toss a beautiful pass 30+ yards with 2 seconds on the block to win a big game? 

  What it seems like some people don't get is that Tarvaris Jackson is not good.  I'd rather have AD run the ball 18 times a game with Favre under center than AD run the ball 22 times a game with Tarvaris under center.  Believe it or not, the run game can be complemented by a good passing game... crazy, huh?   

[wadesworld]

 "VaJay-Jay you act like a 3 year old" -- hilarious.  That's like when people type, "your stupid".  

  Favre isn't 40.  Your dad probably isn't either.  I was wondering where you had run off to.. you must be busy taking those 12 credits this semester.  Hmmmph, and I had you pegged as someone who loved a big load.

If what I'm doing to you is like typing "you're (notice how you use that word...coming from the grammar/spelling police you'd think you could at least get that right, it's taught OVER AND OVER in 2nd grade) stupid" (not to mention the . goes inside the ") then what is it that you do in every single post of yours?

I also apologize, I didn't know you missed me that much, I guess you are DESPERATELY looking for those college males.  See, here's the thing, some people don't sit on their computers all day mixing fresh beatz together like you, VaJay-Jay.  I'll try to make my posts more often so you can get your nut to male college students 300 miles away.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I will blend whatever arguments I want, because that has been my position all along. A has been player + a never will be coach = a bad combination. You may feel the need to separate the two, but I don't.

Sounds great. You are welcome to use that logic, and I'll keep responding and re-organizing your argument so it makes sense.

Piss on!

[NavinRJohnson]

What can't Favre do anymore? 

Watch the next 13 games...you'll find out.

He completed a miraculous play and deserves credit for that. But, as I said earlier, if Lewis comes down one inch to the left, the discussion today is the ridiculous number of pass attempts, and what amounted to a pretty  lousy game by Favre. His QB rating prior to that play was a very pedestrian 67.8. He completed 51% of his passes, and the previous 10 offensive possessions resulted in 6 points for the Vikings and 3 points for the 49ers.

[Jay Bee]

If what I'm doing to you is like typing "you're (notice how you use that word...coming from the grammar/spelling police you'd think you could at least get that right, it's taught OVER AND OVER in 2nd grade) stupid" (not to mention the . goes inside the ") then what is it that you do in every single post of yours?

  WOW.  What did you say you're trying to major in again?  Something easy I hope.  I intentionally typed "YOUR stupid", wad's.  Geez you're slow.  Someone calling another person stupid, while using YOUR instead of YOU'RE... is similar to you calling me Va-Jay Jay while telling me I act like a 3 year old.  

  The . goes inside the "?  Sounds very similar to something your naughty uncle Johnny told you before he got locked up.  Except it wasn't . and ".  

  

[wadesworld]

 WOW.  What did you say you're trying to major in again?  Something easy I hope.  I intentionally typed "YOUR stupid", wad's.  Geez you're slow.  Someone calling another person stupid, while using YOUR instead of YOU'RE... is similar to you calling me Va-Jay Jay while telling me I act like a 3 year old.  

  The . goes inside the "?  Sounds very similar to something your naughty uncle Johnny told you before he got locked up.  Except it wasn't . and ".

HAHA and you claim to bse a 35 year old?!

By the way, have you had any success with finding those college age males you have been searching for lately?

[Moonboots]

It's nice to see Jay Beezy is giving us his view of the NFL from the streetz.  Nice little toss by Favre yesterday.  Nothing too unexpected through week 3.  Force him to win games with his arm and it will catch up to the Vikes by week 9 or 10, at which point they will tank.  They better hope Peterson starts to shy away from contact, or he won't last much longer either.  He's gonna Bo Jackson his ass real soon.

[GOMU1104]

Awfly quiet, considering it is Wednesday...


Jayboy must be locked up in the studio, spittin hot fire.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

To be honest, I thought there would be more Packer smack this week.

There are far more Pack fans on this board than Viking fans.

Are any of you guys participating in the burn Favre's jersey stuff? I've read a couple different articles about bars that are doing that promotion.

[Moonboots]

To be honest, I thought there would be more Packer smack this week.

There are far more Pack fans on this board than Viking fans.

Are any of you guys participating in the burn Favre's jersey stuff? I've read a couple different articles about bars that are doing that promotion.

I figured I'd be a gentleman and allow the ladies the first move. 

Should be an entertaining matchup.  Divisional games are often closer than they should be.  I've been watching Brett Favre for long enough to know that he comes out really wound up in high profile games in recent years (see: Dallas in '07), and I'd imagine if there were ever a matchup Favre WOULD be wound up for, this is probably it.

It's a match up of two pretty decent passing defenses (at least as the numbers would rank) thus far.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_999_Def._Passer_Rating.html

The Packers rank 5th in defensive Packer rating, and the Vikings rank 11th, despite facing Quinn, Stafford and Shaun Hill.  With all due respect to Hill, Rodgers will be the first legitimate QB the Vikings see this season.  It will be interesting to see how their secondary holds up.  I anticipate a shift in scheme that doesn't allow the Vikings line time to get to Rodgers.  Less long developing pass plays, more getting the ball to receivers on slants and quick hitters in space, and allowing them to beat anyone not named Antoine Winfield.

Put everything you have into containing Peterson, throw some crazy fronts at Favre and get in his head, and the Pack can walk away with a victory in the dome.

[MU B2002]

I think one of the keys to the game will be if Barbre can keep Rogers from winding up on his back.  It seems that pressure in the backfield is what helped keep Chicago in the game, despite 4 ints, and helped Cinci win @ the tundra.

[IAmMarquette]

I think one of the keys to the game will be if Barbre can keep Rogers from winding up on his back.  It seems that pressure in the backfield is what helped keep Chicago in the game, despite 4 ints, and helped Cinci win @ the tundra.

And kept the game in St. Louis closer than it should have been, at least for a while. And it's not just Barbre. Colledge has been pretty bad, too. The Pack absolutely must straighten out their pass protection.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I figured I'd be a gentleman and allow the ladies the first move.  

Should be an entertaining matchup.  Divisional games are often closer than they should be.  I've been watching Brett Favre for long enough to know that he comes out really wound up in high profile games in recent years (see: Dallas in '07), and I'd imagine if there were ever a matchup Favre WOULD be wound up for, this is probably it.

It's a match up of two pretty decent passing defenses (at least as the numbers would rank) thus far.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_999_Def._Passer_Rating.html

The Packers rank 5th in defensive Packer rating, and the Vikings rank 11th, despite facing Quinn, Stafford and Shaun Hill.  With all due respect to Hill, Rodgers will be the first legitimate QB the Vikings see this season.  It will be interesting to see how their secondary holds up.  I anticipate a shift in scheme that doesn't allow the Vikings line time to get to Rodgers.  Less long developing pass plays, more getting the ball to receivers on slants and quick hitters in space, and allowing them to beat anyone not named Antoine Winfield.

Put everything you have into containing Peterson, throw some crazy fronts at Favre and get in his head, and the Pack can walk away with a victory in the dome.

One thing to keep in mind about defensive passing stats:

EDIT: I just clicked the link and it appears to take into account attempts, so at this point those stats are probably pretty accurate.

The Vikes don't appear to have a good passing defense because a lot of teams chose to pass against them (vs running the ball). Now, I'm not saying the Vikes pass defense is great, but it's probably better than 11th.

The Packers pass defense appears good because their run defense hasn't been that good, and thus teams are choosing to run the ball. The Packers secondary is still pretty good, but maybe not as good as their ranking.

Either way, you can "toss out the stats on this one", it's going to be a battle.

My hope is that the Vikings open up with some running plays/trick plays to get the game going. I don't really want Brett trying to block again (too risky), but that might be something that gets some of his energy out and settles him down.

If the Vikes are smart, they will be conservative (even with the trick plays), but design a couple of shots down the sideline that Brett either completes or just overthrows. I don't want to see any deep over the middle stuff that he can airmail to the safety.

Should be good.

My prediction:

Vikes 34
Pack 28

Tuesday morning Jay Bee will come on here and piss some of you guys off, and then the normal "Jay bee is a rapper" vs "You dumb wesconisn people are rednecks and the Vikes always sell out." debates will continue.