MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: DegenerateDish on April 15, 2019, 01:38:28 PM
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Next man up and all that, this is a ridiculous blow for MU for next year. To me, Sam has been the player MU could least afforded to have lost over the last two seasons, and now he's gone from a top 5/top 10 team with gigantic hopes for next year. I was ready for Joey to make the leap like Sam did going from frosh to soph. Can't be overstated, this is a massive, massive blow to MU.
Serious questions need to be asked.
-WTF happened? Three of the biggest recruits that Woj landed have left on bad terms. Henry was going pro no matter what, but I don't think the Ellenson's are sending Christmas cards to Woj.
-The body language police certainly noticed something looked wrong at points during the BE season, from Joey "hitting the wall" to Sam not looking happy or as interested at points. What was going on behind the scenes?
-The disaster that was the end of season, is what was going on behind the scenes explain what happened?
-How does Woj recover from this? We joke on here that "this will help recruiting", but this will be a significant strike against Woj on the recruiting trail. Losing two of your core players going into a season as a projected top ten team? That doesn't just happen, something smells really rotten here.
No matter how it's spun, this is a brutal day for MU basketball.
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I just dont understand.
Two players with legit NBA chances next year are transfering and delaying the payday because they hate Wojo/Howard that much?
I cant think of any other reason a 3 year starter would transfer away from a top 5 team.
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I just dont understand.
Two players with legit NBA chances next year are transfering and delaying the payday because they hate Wojo/Howard that much?
I cant think of any other reason a 3 year starter would transfer away from a top 5 team.
Maybe too soft and just can't take criticism?
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-How does Woj recover from this?
I'm not sure he does. You can't fire him now, both because of the lack of replacement, and because you can't show that any one (or two) players are bigger than the program as a whole, but unless something really special happens next March, he could very well be looking for a new job. If you fire him now, it shows that he's gone because of the transfers, and I would only fire him because of result (or lack thereof). My expectations for next year have not changed, only my optimism that they can be achieved.
I don't want to bash any of the parties unless I know all of the facts (which I don't, and no one here does), but this one hurts.
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Maybe too soft and just can't take criticism?
not saying this is the case for the hausers but some players just cant handle not being the man
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I just dont understand.
Two players with legit NBA chances next year are transfering and delaying the payday because they hate Wojo/Howard that much?
I cant think of any other reason a 3 year starter would transfer away from a top 5 team.
Sam Hauser has a legit NBA chance? That's news to me.
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Why can’t the questions begin with the players?
Why is it Wojos fault immediately?
Did Henry thrive with the Pistons?
Not wojos fault Joey couldn’t hold onto the ball in crunch time.
As of now Jamal Cain has stuck it out being reduced in his role
Matt Heldt was praised all year
Markus wanted to come back for a senior year.
Maybe it’s egos, maybe some kids think they are better than they are, maybe it’s controlling parents, maybe some people don’t want to stay.
Idk why this immediately goes to Wojo. It’s a really weird look from the other side as well. Sit a year to play 1? Maybe waste a full season if you’re Joey? Have your brother come to play for a coach you don’t like? The Herro rumors?
There’s a lot that it could be.
Let’s hope the rest of the roster wants to be here and we are fine
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I’m leaning towards getting rid of Wojo now. Next year will be all Howard anyway. When Wojo eventually leaves it’ll be like buzz all over again with the bare cupboard and staying one year too late. Let Stan be the interim coach and you’ll have a full year to get someone.
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not saying this is the case for the hausers but some players just cant handle not being the man
Joey got every opportunity to succeed as a Freshman with an extraordinary long leash considering his turnover and defensive issues.
I don’t think Sam is that kinda player at all, almost think he took a hit for little bro by choosing to transfer as well.
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I don’t think Sam is that kinda player at all, almost think he took a hit for little bro by choosing to transfer as well.
You have things reversed.
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I just dont understand.
Two players with legit NBA chances next year are transfering and delaying the payday because they hate Wojo/Howard that much?
I cant think of any other reason a 3 year starter would transfer away from a top 5 team.
Maybe Sam -- who knows a hell of a lot more than I do about what is going on with the program -- doesn't think that this is a top 5 team. That's what really worries me.
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What’s shocking to me is Sam. He has been such a key piece for 3 years, and the type of kid you live to have on your team. How do you let it come to be that he decides he needs to go elsewhere? What was he asking for that you could not deliver?
The only possible explanation to me is Joey is driving this. I could see him deciding to leave as he has a few years left and maybe decided Marquette was not the place for him. But Sam agreeing to go to- I’ll never understand.
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Maybe Sam -- who knows a hell of a lot more than I do about what is going on with the program -- doesn't think that this is a top 5 team. That's what really worries me.
They realized that a one-man show isn't a top 5 team. And, it seems, they had no hope that Wojo would fix that.
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Cam Marrotta is coming back as a grad asst. Assessment: Joey doesn't like being coached, and Sam likely wants one more opportunity to let it fly before going to play in Israel or Japan.
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You have things reversed.
Are you able to share what you know?
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I’m leaning towards getting rid of Wojo now. Next year will be all Howard anyway. When Wojo eventually leaves it’ll be like buzz all over again with the bare cupboard and staying one year too late. Let Stan be the interim coach and you’ll have a full year to get someone.
If they fire Wojo today, I highly doubt Stan agrees to stay on as a stop-gap. Maybe mid-season for the sake of the players, but not today.
I'd be interested to know what insight Scholl gets from the players and their families in situations like these? If he's hearing directly from the players and their families, as well as the coaches, he may be able to recognize patterns. But if his understanding of their issues are all coming second-hand through the coaching staff, any problems definitely wouldn't be as clear.
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Are you able to share what you know?
I don't know, but his response seemed pretty clear. Sam wants to leave and Joey is following.
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Joey got every opportunity to succeed as a Freshman with an extraordinary long leash considering his turnover and defensive issues.
I don’t think Sam is that kinda player at all, almost think he took a hit for little bro by choosing to transfer as well.
Absolutely he is taking a hit. A guy that's on the cusp of maybe being an NBA player one day, taking a full year off and having to shake off some rust with a new program. Have to imagine they're both feeding into each other's thoughts about leaving and it all came to a boiling point. Sure Markus was playing hero ball, similar to Rowsey the previous year.
MU had a damn good run this year before things fell apart. Makes me wonder if a few of the early losses in that losing streak affected culture between the Hausers, Wojo and maybe Markus. Just kept snowballing from then on. It's all pretty odd.
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If they fire Wojo today, I highly doubt Stan agrees to stay on as a stop-gap. Maybe mid-season for the sake of the players, but not today.
I'd be interested to know what insight Scholl gets from the players and their families in situations like these? If he's hearing directly from the players and their families, as well as the coaches, he may be able to recognize patterns. But if his understanding of their issues are all coming second-hand through the coaching staff, any problems definitely wouldn't be as clear.
This is what bothers me. No way people who make decisions about the direction of the program were blindsided by this. Couple that with our epic collapse and you wonder why a change wasn’t made.
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I’m leaning towards getting rid of Wojo now. Next year will be all Howard anyway. When Wojo eventually leaves it’ll be like buzz all over again with the bare cupboard and staying one year too late. Let Stan be the interim coach and you’ll have a full year to get someone.
We have a winner.
It's a total crap sandwich, but Marquette needs to start over at this point.
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You have things reversed.
Gonna PM you cause I’m hearing the opposite from my people.
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They realized that a one-man show isn't a top 5 team. And, it seems, they had no hope that Wojo would fix that.
Who knows if it could be top 5.
But Purdue was a miracle away from a final four and Carsen Edwards chucks even more than Markus and his supporting players were Cline(far less talented all around player than Sam), a starter that legit walked on and a 7 foot 125 lb center.
It can work. Purdue’s players bought in.
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Hmmmmm...
Eojo od the man
The apologists must now go into overdrive
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I saw Borzello tweet that he texted with Sam, and Sam will sit one to play one, and he and Joey will be a package deal where ever they end up.
I just can not get over a Big East preseason first team candidate, a player from Wisconsin, at a potential Final Four quality squad, deciding he'd rather go sit some place for a year, rather than come back and finish his senior year, which could have been one of the most memorable in Marquette history.
I don't think it's overstating to say this is very damning. That doesn't even account for Joey, who was going to be the face of the program starting in 2020/2021.
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The espn article was posted somewhere else, but was pretty clear...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26530869/marquette-losing-hauser-brothers-transfer
Sam Hauser told ESPN that he and his brother are planning to go to the same school.
Sam Hauser will have to sit one year before playing his final season because he will not be a graduate transfer. Joey Hauser will have three years of eligibility after sitting out next season.
"We are thankful for all that Sam and Joey contributed to our program and University during their time at Marquette and wish them the best of luck in the future," head coach Steve Wojciechowski said in a statement. "We have a tremendous group of returning players and are extremely excited about the upcoming season and future of our program."
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Does anyone know what the specific complaint from the Hausers is? Was there an ultimatum given to Wojo?
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I saw Borzello tweet that he texted with Sam, and Sam will sit one to play one, and he and Joey will be a package deal where ever they end up.
I just can not get over a Big East preseason first team candidate, a player from Wisconsin, at a potential Final Four quality squad, deciding he'd rather go sit some place for a year, rather than come back and finish his senior year, which could have been one of the most memorable in Marquette history.
I don't think it's overstating to say this is very damning. That doesn't even account for Joey, who was going to be the face of the program starting in 2020/2021.
Also, Sams NBA chances just got tougher.
He’s gonna be 23 now by the time his draft rolls around.
Will be 24 first couple months of his would be rookie year.
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I saw Borzello tweet that he texted with Sam, and Sam will sit one to play one, and he and Joey will be a package deal where ever they end up.
I just can not get over a Big East preseason first team candidate, a player from Wisconsin, at a potential Final Four quality squad, deciding he'd rather go sit some place for a year, rather than come back and finish his senior year, which could have been one of the most memorable in Marquette history.
I don't think it's overstating to say this is very damning. That doesn't even account for Joey, who was going to be the face of the program starting in 2020/2021.
This
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I saw Borzello tweet that he texted with Sam, and Sam will sit one to play one, and he and Joey will be a package deal where ever they end up.
I just can not get over a Big East preseason first team candidate, a player from Wisconsin, at a potential Final Four quality squad, deciding he'd rather go sit some place for a year, rather than come back and finish his senior year, which could have been one of the most memorable in Marquette history.
I don't think it's overstating to say this is very damning. That doesn't even account for Joey, who was going to be the face of the program starting in 2020/2021.
It’s personal eh?
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Also, Sams NBA chances just got tougher.
He’s gonna be 23 now by the time his draft rolls around.
Will be 24 first couple months of his would be rookie year.
Ah, so he went from 5% chance to 2% chance. Hope he enjoys Europe.
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Lots of stuff here.
First, all Sam did was a reverse Robert Jackson. If people wondering why any 3-year player would sit out a year before finishing up and are looking for a precedent, there it is. Jackson was a 3-year contributor at a P6 school who left Mississippi State to play his senior year elsewhere. In Jackson, he was going "home." Sam is leaving "home." Jackson even got a Final Four out of the deal; maybe Sam will, too, especially if he ends up at Virginia.
As to why Wojo is bearing the lion's share of the blame, he's the CEO. It happened under his watch, plain and simple. I've been one of his biggest supporters on Scoop, but this definitely significantly reduces my confidence in his ability to build and sustain a long-time winning program.
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It’s personal eh?
Big time.
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Big time.
I don't see how it could be anything else.
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https://twitter.com/charlesppierce/status/1117869800309420033?s=21
If this is true and Joey was complaining about not getting up as many shots as Markus is absolutely ridiculous, that’s on him. Good riddance and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Sam I can see the gripe, but outside of a few games towards the end of the year it’s not like he was missing them.
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https://twitter.com/charlesppierce/status/1117869800309420033?s=21
If this is true, Joey was complaining about not getting up as many shots as Markus is absolutely ridiculous, that’s on him.
Sam I can see the gripe, but outside of a few games towards the end of the year it’s not like he was missing them.
Like I said earlier, Markus gonna end up being labeled as the bad guy. Just pitiful.
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If I'm on the BOT, I would start with, "Why the $%@! didn't we hire Howland?"
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https://twitter.com/charlesppierce/status/1117869800309420033?s=21
If this is true, Joey was complaining about not getting up as many shots as Markus is absolutely ridiculous, that’s on him.
Sam I can see the gripe, but outside of a few games towards the end of the year it’s not like he was missing them.
I believe the way Markus was playing was not necessarily attainable and it created bad habits towards the end of the year. I don't think Joey would be complaining about getting as many shots as Markus (Sam neither), but it was a function of how they were getting their shots. Wojo had made it pretty clear that Markus was able to shoot wherever and whenever and not running a more balanced attack lost us games down the stretch and created a really poor relationship between all the parties.
It's at least partially on Wojo to not be able to sort that out.
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I believe the way Markus was playing was not necessarily attainable and it created bad habits towards the end of the year. I don't think Joey would be complaining about getting as many shots as Markus (Sam neither), but it was a function of how they were getting their shots. Wojo had made it pretty clear that Markus was able to shoot wherever and whenever and not running a more balanced attack lost us games down the stretch and created a really poor relationship between all the parties.
It's at least partially on Wojo to not be able to sort that out.
It should have been on Wojo when he couldn't stop the slide. This is just the fallout--unfortunately.
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At this point, any extension of the Wojo regime delays the inevitable.
This has the same feeling of the Mike McCarthy contract extension circa 2018.
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I don't know anything about what goes on inside the program, but this just seems like a gigantic middle finger from the Hauser family to (I guess?) Wojo.
This whole thing just sucks, I don't know how many times the Hauser parents/grandparents were shown in the crowd on TV, but it seemed like a lot. They always had MU gear on and were (rightfully) cheering on their boys.
The Hauser family isn't dumb, they knew what MU has/had set up for next year. I mean maybe Wojo lucks out and gets a grad transfer who can play, and Torrance reclassifies, but man does this not sit well, and stinks to holy hell of something bigger at play. I feel like I'm repeating myself in these posts, but the ramifications of this are going to stay with Wojo for a long, long time (if he's still at MU).
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I don't know anything about what goes on inside the program, but this just seems like a gigantic middle finger from the Hauser family to (I guess?) Wojo.
This whole thing just sucks, I don't know how many times the Hauser parents/grandparents were shown in the crowd on TV, but it seemed like a lot. They always had MU gear on and were (rightfully) cheering on their boys.
The Hauser family isn't dumb, they knew what MU has/had set up for next year. I mean maybe Wojo lucks out and gets a grad transfer who can play, and Torrance reclassifies, but man does this not sit well, and stinks to holy hell of something bigger at play. I feel like I'm repeating myself in these posts, but the ramifications of this are going to stay with Wojo for a long, long time (if he's still at MU).
Agreed, I don't see how Wojo survives this. Recruiting just became almost impossible.
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I don't know anything about what goes on inside the program, but this just seems like a gigantic middle finger from the Hauser family to (I guess?) Wojo.
This whole thing just sucks, I don't know how many times the Hauser parents/grandparents were shown in the crowd on TV, but it seemed like a lot. They always had MU gear on and were (rightfully) cheering on their boys.
The Hauser family isn't dumb, they knew what MU has/had set up for next year. I mean maybe Wojo lucks out and gets a grad transfer who can play, and Torrance reclassifies, but man does this not sit well, and stinks to holy hell of something bigger at play. I feel like I'm repeating myself in these posts, but the ramifications of this are going to stay with Wojo for a long, long time (if he's still at MU).
So what is Wojo supposed to do in this situation? Hand the whiteboard over to Mr Hauser? This ultimately all falls on Wojo, but it seems like the Hausers put him in an impossible situation. His alternative is tell Markus to take a backseat and let the team know that the Hausers call the shots?
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So what is Wojo supposed to do in this situation? Hand the whiteboard over to Mr Hauser? This ultimately all falls on Wojo, but it seems like the Hausers put him in an impossible situation. His alternative is tell Markus to take a backseat and let the team know that the Hausers call the shots?
I think you constantly have to be re-recruiting your own players to try to avoid situations like this. It's one thing if this was one player, but this was two core players (it's not lost on me that they are brothers). I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but the buck stops with Wojo. Hindsight being what it is, there were significant smoke signals happening over the last month at least. I don't have good answers, you can't let David Hauser run your program, but you can't unintentionally run off two of your best players either. The truth probably lies in the middle.
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As pointed out, the Hausers must've had a really good reason to leave considering everything happening here. Everything I've heard is that Sam was (rightfully IMO) not pleased with how Wojo refused to rein in Markus at the end of the season (watch the SH game after Markus's return for reference). So for the me the toughest question that needs to be asked is what happened from the time that Markus announced his return, to the time the Hausers announced their departure? I can't imagine the Hausers making that kind of a decision without a major catalyst. So after Markus announces, did Sam/Hausers approach Wojo and ask/demand that Wojo rein in Markus more next year? Did Wojo then tell the Hausers that he would utilize Markus in the same way, triggering their decision? I wouldn't think the Hausers would make this kind of choice without a major sit-down with the coach about next year. So did Wojo effectively choose Markus over the Hausers?
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Agreed, I don't see how Wojo survives this. Recruiting just became almost impossible.
Recruits like minutes. Seems like it would help recruiting.
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So what is Wojo supposed to do in this situation? Hand the whiteboard over to Mr Hauser? This ultimately all falls on Wojo, but it seems like the Hausers put him in an impossible situation. His alternative is tell Markus to take a backseat and let the team know that the Hausers call the shots?
I don't think he should have told Markus to take a backseat but he needed to put the the reigns on him a bit and force them to run a more balanced attack, which I believe ultimately would have led to more sustained success and not this huge 2nd half of the season drop off.
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Markus put up a lot of bad shots during the season. The difference was in the last 8 games. They didnt go in.
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Recruits like minutes. Seems like it would help recruiting.
Ok then, keep your head in the sand.
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Markus put up a lot of bad shots during the season. The difference was in the last 8 games. They didnt go in.
You could say the same for Sam and Joey at the end of the season. OK, maybe theirs were "good shots" that didn't go in. But getting the ball through the hoop is the important part of the game. Not like any of those three excelled at the end of the year.
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It is amazing how a few days ago we were tempering the national Media's expectations saying its the same team so the same thing will happen-WHICH IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE-Joey was a TO machine and Sam ya know he still had alot of shots this year I dont know what better opportunity is out there for him-Either way I wish them the best of luck.
On pure basketball alone I do not think this team would have done much more against teams like Murray State or teams like St John's next year either-Something had to change. NONE of us wanted this change I feel like more of us would have preferred MH go pro....
Probably somewhere in here is Wojo saying MH you gotta stay and MH was aware this could happen as a result. The team's chemistry was gone...Do I think Morrow getting MORE minutes is bad-NO. I also see Bailey and Cain as pretty quick and immediate replacements for Sam.
We are propping these guys up as game changers where at the end of the year JH was pretty awful in all reality-Tons of potential sure but his timeline for improvement was not as long as the coaches.
This is college basketball now-Hopefully this is the last xfer. My bigger concern is what this does to local recruiting.
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The more I read, the more this feels like Tim and Jeronne Mammon.
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At this point, any extension of the Wojo regime delays the inevitable.
This has the same feeling of the Mike McCarthy contract extension circa 2018.
This is how I feel. Wojo isn't going to get fired before the beginning of next season. But I think next season will be his last.
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I also see Bailey and Cain as pretty quick and immediate replacements for Sam.
I can't think of any reason why this is the case.
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I can't think of any reason why this is the case.
Bailey already is significantly more athletic than Sam and was arguably or second best on ball defender by the end of this year. If we play Sam 30-35 minutes this year at the 3 then we could be seeing Bailey transferring next year. I think Bailey's ceiling is as high as anyone on this team's right now.
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The more I read, the more this feels like Tim and Jeronne Mammon.
+1, I'm just hoping that Sam and Joey end up with happy, fulfilling lives. They are young men making tough decisions, with a lot of powerful grown men whispering in their ears.
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Bailey already is significantly more athletic than Sam and was arguably or second best on ball defender by the end of this year. If we play Sam 30-35 minutes this year at the 3 then we could be seeing Bailey transferring next year. I think Bailey's ceiling is as high as anyone on this team's right now.
Sam is a better basketball player than Bailey. Sam was better as a freshman. I think this is just hoping for something rather than logical.
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Like I said earlier, Markus gonna end up being labeled as the bad guy. Just pitiful.
Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season.
Now, is this on Markus? Yes, but the ultimate responsibility resides with Wojo. If the coach decides that it's fine for an injured player to chuck the ball 2x the average while being below average, then that's on the coach. And frankly, I wouldn't want to play for that coach or with that player anymore either.
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If Dave Hauser was such a problem parent don’t you think UW and it’s network would have blasted that everywhere to cover themselves.
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The more I read, the more this feels like Tim and Jeronne Mammon.
Not even close. They loved being able to head down to MKE and watch the boys play. But Dave has let both of them come to their own conclusions in their recruitment, and in this situation. This was Sam and Joey losing trust in their head coach.
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Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season.
Now, is this on Markus? Yes, but the ultimate responsibility resides with Wojo. If the coach decides that it's fine for an injured player to chuck the ball 2x the average while being below average, then that's on the coach. And frankly, I wouldn't want to play for that coach or with that player anymore either.
This is an excellent and succinct summation of the situation as I see it.
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Not even close. They loved being able to head down to MKE and watch the boys play. But Dave has let both of them come to their own conclusions in their recruitment, and in this situation. This was Sam and Joey losing trust in their head coach.
Some here don't want to admit the obvious.
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Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season.
Now, is this on Markus? Yes, but the ultimate responsibility resides with Wojo. If the coach decides that it's fine for an injured player to chuck the ball 2x the average while being below average, then that's on the coach. And frankly, I wouldn't want to play for that coach or with that player anymore either.
It's definitely on the coach. The thing is, when it was working, everything was just peachy. MU was on the hottest streak in years, Markus looking like an AA candidate. Wojo hit the panic button when MU lost a few and gave Markus the keys and told him to hold on to them for good. I think a lot of this would have played out differently if the team won and advanced a bit in the tournament. The Hauser brothers must have lost some interest and their play deteriorated as a result of frustrations, because neither of them played well down the stretch either.
My biggest gripe is that the team doesn't play as a team. Markus is/was the team. And I like him. But in order to bounce back he has to figure out how to keep Markus happy while getting all 5 players involved. Clearly if he were a facilitator, Markus would get some satisfaction from assisting his teammates. He's a pure scorer, period. That's what he does. Hopefully somehow things can get ironed out.
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His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
Just since you brought it up, ORtg last 7 games...
Markus: 94 106 59 95 123 88 97 avg 94.6
Sam: 138 34 109 91 123 150 113 avg 108.3
Joey: 83 81 55 140 124 89 79 avg 93.0
So only Sam quality during that stretch of the 3 (and the 34 clunker vs Creighton really hurt him)
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I am not sure Joey did not see the writing on the wall. I thought there was a good chance he would not start next year. Either being replaced by Anim or Bailey at the three.
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Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season.
Now, is this on Markus? Yes, but the ultimate responsibility resides with Wojo. If the coach decides that it's fine for an injured player to chuck the ball 2x the average while being below average, then that's on the coach. And frankly, I wouldn't want to play for that coach or with that player anymore either.
Maybe the remaining players should leave also. I just believe Markus is going to be the full front blame on this for the upcoming season, not Wojo and it will be tough on him.
Markus took around 230 more shots than Sam during the season. Duke’s RJ Barrett took 280 more shots than Zion. Didn’t hear any rumblings about Duke players getting upset at that and wanting to leave. Well, they leave anyway but for NBA pastures. Thanks for the stats though.
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Some here don't want to admit the obvious.
I want to know what Wojo did to engender the type of support he enjoys on this corner of the Internet.
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I'm fairly certain Wojo will be coaching MU when the season starts, but it'll be really tense (I guess is the right word) if MU is struggling early in the season in a home game. The MU fan base wouldn't boo MU athletes, but I can see things getting real awkward at games or in press conferences quickly for Wojo. There was a lot of pressure for him to coach well next season, it's going to be incredibly difficult for him next year. When he gets introduced at the Fiserv next year, I know I for one will look at him with a bit of disgust for being at the helm of this mess. Barring a run into the second weekend next March, I don't see any way he isn't in massive trouble a year from now. I could ultimately see both sides agreeing to mutually dissolve, he's in almost as literal a no win situation that I've seen a college basketball coach in heading into a year.
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I said after the Buffalo game that trouble was brewing. The Hausers flat out would not pass the ball the last five minutes. They had enough of a guy scoring 25 straight points and not passing. This was brewing all season.
Wojo did a horrible job with keeping the reins on Howard and shame on him. Horrible on court coaching and caused issues in the locker room.
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It's definitely on the coach. The thing is, when it was working, everything was just peachy. MU was on the hottest streak in years, Markus looking like an AA candidate. Wojo hit the panic button when MU lost a few and gave Markus the keys and told him to hold on to them for good. I think a lot of this would have played out differently if the team won and advanced a bit in the tournament. The Hauser brothers must have lost some interest and their play deteriorated as a result of frustrations, because neither of them played well down the stretch either.
My biggest gripe is that the team doesn't play as a team. Markus is/was the team. And I like him. But in order to bounce back he has to figure out how to keep Markus happy while getting all 5 players involved. Clearly if he were a facilitator, Markus would get some satisfaction from assisting his teammates. He's a pure scorer, period. That's what he does. Hopefully somehow things can get ironed out.
My take is that the issues with Howard/Hausers were brewing all season. Winning can certainly hide problems, but the minute that stopped, the issues came home to roost, big-time. Just watch the second half of the Murray St. game again. That was a dead-ass team on the court. Wojo was just a bystander at that point.
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Markus took around 230 more shots than Sam during the season. Duke’s RJ Barrett took 280 more shots than Zion. Didn’t hear any rumblings about Duke players getting upset at that and wanting to leave.
Maybe it’s because Duke didn’t finish the season 1-6 while choking away the conference title
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Cam Marrotta is coming back as a grad asst. Assessment: Joey doesn't like being coached, and Sam likely wants one more opportunity to let it fly before going to play in Israel or Japan.
Come on. Sam is 6'9 with a excellent range and outside shooting ability and plays smart basketball. His athleticism may preclude him from an NBA career, but he's the kind of dude who can play for one of the Euroleague teams in Spain, Greece, or Turkey for 15 years. Hes a prototypical Euro star
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Maybe it’s because Duke didn’t finish the season 1-6 while choking away the conference title
Or the fact that Zion missed 8 games due to injury.
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I want to know what Wojo did to engender the type of support he enjoys on this corner of the Internet.
Demonstrating borderline gross incompetence when needing to make in-game adjustments, perhaps?
Being too stubborn to bring in an experienced X's and O's coach who could help with the above despite it being an obvious weakness for the last four years, maybe?
Not reining in Howard late in the season when it became increasingly counter-productive to have him heave up shot after shot?
Failing to teach Howard how to PASS THE BALL to a wide open teammate after three years at a D-1 program?
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The Lens
I am been thinking the same way about the Wojo supporters. They have a silver lining for anything that happens. This is a major blow to the program on a lot of fronts.
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Come on. Sam is 6'9 with a excellent range and outside shooting ability and plays smart basketball. His athleticism may preclude him from an NBA career, but he's the kind of dude who can play for one of the Euroleague teams in Spain, Greece, or Turkey for 15 years. Hes a prototypical Euro star
What Sam Hauser's future prospects are is entirely irrelevant anyway. The guy was a damn good college player and was one of the better players in the Big East heading into next season. Wojo will not be able to replace him, even with a grad transfer.
The spin here by some on this Hausers transfer is nauseating. Guys, its okay to say that Wojo ain't the guy.
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The more I read, the more this feels like Tim and Jeronne Mammon.
My thought exactly, Brother Tower.
And where is Jeronne Maymon playing in the NBA? In the stands maybe?
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I want to know what Wojo did to engender the type of support he enjoys on this corner of the Internet.
The honest and easy answer: he got hired by Marquette. That's pretty much the long and short of it.
A slightly longer answer, he recruited some pretty good players, had a pretty good season (with an awful ending) and seemed to have the program headed in the right direction.
As of today, I'm reassessing my thoughts on the last of those three things.
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My thought exactly, Brother Tower.
And where is Jeronne Maymon playing in the NBA? In the stands maybe?
Multiple knee injuries derailed his career. He retired and is now an assistant at Mizzou.
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Tim and Jeronne Maymon are not an exact comparison, just a shorthand.
There was clearly tension when Joey didn't get the ball when and where he wanted it during the season. This is purely speculation, but what if..... Joey wanted to be featured in the offense. Markus said he was returning. What if Wojo told Joey that he not only would not be featured, but that he would have to beat out Bailey for minutes and a starting position. Or that with Koby, Wojo was going to be playing a lot more 3 guard offense next year with Sacar, Koby, and Markus. And maybe Torrence. Joey, who thought that the offense should run through him and his brother, was displeased. Which drifted up to his parents.
So it became about a young player thinking he should be used differently by the coach. As opposed to the young player's father wanting his son used differently.
Pure speculation.
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If my hypothesis is right, what should Wojo have done? Featured Joey? Featured Sam? Promised that Joey would again play at least 29 mpg? In all seriousness, what if the cause of all of this is that Wojo told Joey that he was not going to be featured and would be competing for minutes and a starting position? Is it Wojo's fault then? And if so, how? If this stems from Joey not being featured and Markus returning, please explain what Wojo should have done or what you would have done or said if you were the coach.
Now those are some tough questions. What if it all boils down to a young man wanting to be featured (Odartey Blankston, Jeronne Maymon) and being told it wasn't going to happen the next year? That the BEPOY and second team all American was still going to be the alpha? And, oh, by the way, Bailey plays better defense than you.
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Tim and Jeronne Maymon are not an exact comparison, just a shorthand.
There was clearly tension when Joey didn't get the ball when and where he wanted it during the season. This is purely speculation, but what if..... Joey wanted to be featured in the offense. Markus said he was returning. What if Wojo told Joey that he not only would not be featured, but that he would have to beat out Bailey for minutes and a starting position. Or that with Koby, Wojo was going to be playing a lot more 3 guard offense next year with Sacar, Koby, and Markus. And maybe Torrence. Joey, who thought that the offense should run through him and his brother, was displeased. Which drifted up to his parents.
So it became about a young player thinking he should be used differently by the coach. As opposed to the young player's father wanting his son used differently.
Pure speculation.
What if Sam, Joey, their parents and teammates were frustrated that Markus's already extremely high usage rate went through the roof while his efficiency tumbled and the team collapsed?
Pure speculation but many fewer moving parts than yours. Occum's Razor.
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I'm fairly certain Wojo will be coaching MU when the season starts, but it'll be really tense (I guess is the right word) if MU is struggling early in the season in a home game. The MU fan base wouldn't boo MU athletes, but I can see things getting real awkward at games or in press conferences quickly for Wojo. There was a lot of pressure for him to coach well next season, it's going to be incredibly difficult for him next year. When he gets introduced at the Fiserv next year, I know I for one will look at him with a bit of disgust for being at the helm of this mess. Barring a run into the second weekend next March, I don't see any way he isn't in massive trouble a year from now. I could ultimately see both sides agreeing to mutually dissolve, he's in almost as literal a no win situation that I've seen a college basketball coach in heading into a year.
if this is true,and I believe you are dead on, then why hang onto wojo. Cut bait now and move on from this mess otherwise he is dead man walking all next season.
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A lot of you are putting spins on this in are in complete denial. The hausers didnt leave because their dad told them to. Or because they felt they wouldn't play.
We lost 2 of our top 4 players. That sucks, and we all know why it happened.
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If my hypothesis is right, what should Wojo have done? Featured Joey? Featured Sam? Promised that Joey would again play at least 29 mpg? In all seriousness, what if the cause of all of this is that Wojo told Joey that he was not going to be featured and would be competing for minutes and a starting position? Is it Wojo's fault then? And if so, how? If this stems from Joey not being featured and Markus returning, please explain what Wojo should have done or what you would have done or said if you were the coach.
Now those are some tough questions. What if it all boils down to a young man wanting to be featured (Odartey Blankston, Jeronne Maymon) and being told it wasn't going to happen the next year? That the BEPOY and second team all American was still going to be the alpha? And, oh, by the way, Bailey plays better defense than you.
I think you have to know your players and know how to manage people. There's a way to send that message to Joey while making it a productive and positive conversation to make him a better player. Maybe that message was already sent and this is the end result. I'm a firm believer when it comes to managing people, you don't manage everyone the same way. The natural maturation of a good freshman player would be to be even better next year.
If Wojo didn't realize that whatever message he (hypothetically) was trying to send to Joey, wasn't going to get on Sam's nerves as well, then that's a colossal fail on Wojo's part. If you were going to take a hardline with Joey, much better to lose him after this upcoming season, than before.
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What if Sam, Joey, their parents and teammates were frustrated that Markus's already extremely high usage rate went through the roof while his efficiency tumbled and the team collapsed?
Pure speculation but many fewer moving parts than yours. Occum's Razor.
Bingo
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we all know why it happened.
I for one have no idea why it happened.
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If my hypothesis is right, what should Wojo have done? Featured Joey? Featured Sam? Promised that Joey would again play at least 29 mpg? In all seriousness, what if the cause of all of this is that Wojo told Joey that he was not going to be featured and would be competing for minutes and a starting position? Is it Wojo's fault then? And if so, how? If this stems from Joey not being featured and Markus returning, please explain what Wojo should have done or what you would have done or said if you were the coach.
Now those are some tough questions. What if it all boils down to a young man wanting to be featured (Odartey Blankston, Jeronne Maymon) and being told it wasn't going to happen the next year? That the BEPOY and second team all American was still going to be the alpha? And, oh, by the way, Bailey plays better defense than you.
This is pure speculation and defense of Wojo. Joe zhauser has his faults but is a better player than Bailey. You continue to excuse Wojo performance and cannot see how this and the season ending melt down are on Wojo.
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As many have said, the coaching staff's inability to reign in Markus lead to this. In the games at Georgetown and at Providence (Markus was hobbled and didn't shoot much) the ball moved, everyone felt involved and Sam had big games. Sam probably wants more opportunities like that.
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I think Dish and Sugar have raised excellent points.
My overwhelming perception during the late-season collapse was that it was too sudden and complete to not be something in their minds. I wondered if it was a group gag. I guess with kids these days, especially those who have been the stars all along so far, it comes down to the fact that there is only one ball. Can it be that simple?
I have not been an outspoken Wojo critic, and have felt that things were going (slowly) in the right direction. But as Dish said, this is a dark day for MUball, and I think it's on Wojo, primarily for his inability to coordinate the needs and abilities of his players. I love Markus, but the season went as he did. Once he started to perform less well (injury to off wrist or nay), there was no accommodation for that. Frustration grew, and now we have the detritus.
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Would you want your son playing for Wojo?
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Like I said earlier, Markus gonna end up being labeled as the bad guy. Just pitiful.
Markus averaged 6.5 more shots a game than Sam. Isn't it reasonable that a good shooter who can get his own shot almost at will would shoot much more than a guy who can't?
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Would you want your son playing for Wojo?
You keep saying this as though Wojo is some complete degenerate.
Yes, From what I know I would. He seems like a decent enough guy, cares about his players as shown by the Matt Heldt press conference.
He may not be a good x and o guy, but he’s not a bad person.
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Markus averaged 6.5 more shots a game than Sam. Isn't it reasonable that a good shooter who can get his own shot almost at will would shoot much more than a guy who can't?
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You mean the second team all-American who was a NPOY candidate? Yup, makes sense to me.
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Would you want your son playing for Wojo?
In a rec basketball league maybe?
Let’s not forget this gem.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjD7Yf0f00
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Would you want your son playing for Wojo?
Was going to post the same thing. Many have said this will crush Sam's NBA chances...if I were advising Sam I would tell him the best chance he has to play in the league is to go play for TB at UVA for 2 years.
If UVA wants Sam and Joey it really tells you the caliber of players they are as TB should be able to recruit who he wants given the recent success of a few of his players in the NBA, a national championship, and two more NBA players on the way.
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You keep saying this as though Wojo is some complete degenerate.
Yes, From what I know I would. He seems like a decent enough guy, cares about his players as shown by the Matt Heldt press conference.
He may not be a good x and o guy, but he’s not a bad person.
So, let's say your kid is a recruited D-1 basketball player and you have choices of several programs. Why take a chance on Wojo? What has he accomplished? Can he win big? Can he get your son ready to compete in the Association? Again, do you want your son playing for Wojo?
Essentially, Wojo is finished and has no credibility with Wisconsin AAU or high school coaches. Negative recruiting will neuter Wojo.
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What other coaches? What other programs? What kind of atmosphere does my kid want? In other words, if Wojo offered, and my kid wanted to play for him, I would not stop him.
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So, let's say your kid is a recruited D-1 basketball player and you have choices of several programs. Why take a chance on Wojo? What has he accomplished? Can he win big? Can he get your son ready to compete in the Association? Again, do you want your son playing for Wojo?
Essentially, Wojo is finished and has no credibility with Wisconsin AAU or high school coaches. Negative recruiting will neuter Wojo.
An accurate assessment. Finding, recruiting, and developing a NBA player involves a bit of luck, but besides Ellenson, what players have progressed through Marquette to the NBA? Where is the Crowder or Butler in the Wojo era? If you were a coach, would you look at Wojo and say he could get my star high school player to the NBA?
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I am not sure Joey did not see the writing on the wall. I thought there was a good chance he would not start next year. Either being replaced by Anim or Bailey at the three.
EXACTLY.
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An accurate assessment. Finding, recruiting, and developing a NBA player involves a bit of luck, but besides Ellenson, what players have progressed through Marquette to the NBA? Where is the Crowder or Butler in the Wojo era? If you were a coach, would you look at Wojo and say he could get my star high school player to the NBA?
I dunno if you are/were a buzz guy, but I'd say wojo has about the same track record with high school kids as he did.
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I dunno if you are/were a buzz guy, but I'd say wojo has about the same track record with high school kids as he did.
Not a Buzz guy, but I cannot deny his success. I am more of KO guy, 5 years, Sweet 16, win over Kentucky, and a talent pipeline . . .
I'm not seeing it with Wojo, which is disappointing. I wanted him to succeed.
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The more I read, the more this feels like Tim and Jeronne Mammon.
Agree.
One kid, that kid wants a change and can believe a new system will further their development. Both, someone is in their ear.
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Not a Buzz guy, but I cannot deny his success. I am more of KO guy, 5 years, Sweet 16, win over Kentucky, and a talent pipeline . . .
I'm not seeing it with Wojo, which is disappointing. I wanted him to succeed.
Ok.
I thought we were comparing their ability to develop high school talent
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Ok.
I thought we were comparing their ability to develop high school talent
Buzz did not demonstrate the ability to develop high school recruit, but JUCOs are another matter. Wojo has not shown the ability to develop high school talent and get them to the next level.
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Buzz did not demonstrate the ability to develop high school recruit, but JUCOs are another matter. Wojo has not shown the ability to develop high school talent and get them to the next level.
Agreed.
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Sam Hauser has a legit NBA chance? That's news to me.
You are correct - I love them both and very sorry they are.leaving, but they are not in the top 200 prospects for the NBA if you look through the master at nbadraft.net.
However, in Value Add by the end of the year I had Sam close to Markus in overall value - but I believe with Markus not having to bring it up the court he won't wear down next year and he was a true all American until the last couple of weeks.
Let's face it, Joey was a terrible turnover machine and huge drag on the team the last 2 months. He shouldn't have been on the court.
If Chartouney replaced Markus as starting PG last year this team would not have gone .500.
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Why can’t the questions begin with the players?
Why is it Wojos fault immediately?
Did Henry thrive with the Pistons?
Not wojos fault Joey couldn’t hold onto the ball in crunch time.
As of now Jamal Cain has stuck it out being reduced in his role
Matt Heldt was praised all year
Markus wanted to come back for a senior year
Spot on! Joey was awful the last several weeks. Him getting postered by Ja Morant was just bad luck, but it summed up him handing the ball to opponents game after game.
The only game I fault Markus for is the last shot against Seton Hall when he was 1.of 15 and didn't pass to an open Sam.
Only thing I fault Wojo for is not benching Joey with 2 better options behind him the last several weeks, but of course he couldn't do that or it would have been the reason for the transelfee.
I honestly believe this team would have gone 14-17 with Joseph playing pg is Markus was not her.
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Who knows if it could be top 5.
But Purdue was a miracle away from a final four and Carsen Edwards chucks even more than Markus and his supporting players were Cline(far less talented all around player than Sam), a starter that legit walked on and a 7 foot 125 lb center.
It can work. Purdue’s players bought in.
Agreed. The official ncaa.com stat is that 40% of players transfer either there freshman sophomore year - sometimes I honestly think our complainers don't follow the other 352 teams but instead are living in the last century when every coach didn't live in fear of ever offending a player knowing they could transfer.
The good news is I am now reassured Markus does not read the scoop - because if I had "fans" saying the team would have done better without me as an All-American I'd shake my head and walk off.
Get a clue - you would have watched a 14-17 season if Joseph we're playing pg instead of Markus this year.
Yes, I'm very sad Sam is gone. If you'd told me this in early January I'd say you are crazy, but I wish Joey had transferred with 6 weeks left in the season because Bailey and Cain were both better than him.
If you want to know why Markus didn't throw the ball to Joey more often it was because Joey typically threw soft, perfect bounce passes to the other team once he had the ball.
As I've said before, I'm convinced all the people who lived around me in Auburn 2 years ago and lectured us in how Pearl had to be fired for starting 44-54 in his first three years are now in hiding posting here as MU fans.
Thanks for the great 3 years Sam, and would have loved to see a 4th, and hope you can find your little bro a good setting to forget his miserable last 2 months for Marquette and have a great future.
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I don't see how it could be anything else.
It's personal. They hate Wojo and Markus messed with the wrong girlfriend.
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Agreed. The official ncaa.com stat is that 40% of players transfer either there freshman sophomore year - sometimes I honestly think our complainers don't follow the other 352 teams but instead are living in the last century when every coach didn't live in fear of ever offending a player knowing they could transfer.
The good news is I am now reassured Markus does not read the scoop - because if I had "fans" saying the team would have done better without me as an All-American I'd shake my head and walk off.
Get a clue - you would have watched a 14-17 season if Joseph we're playing pg instead of Markus this year.
Yes, I'm very sad Sam is gone. If you'd told me this in early January I'd say you are crazy, but I wish Joey had transferred with 6 weeks left in the season because Bailey and Cain were both better than him.
If you want to know why Markus didn't throw the ball to Joey more often it was because Joey typically threw soft, perfect bounce passes to the other team once he had the ball.
As I've said before, I'm convinced all the people who lived around me in Auburn 2 years ago and lectured us in how Pearl had to be fired for starting 44-54 in his first three years are now in hiding posting here as MU fans.
Thanks for the great 3 years Sam, and would have loved to see a 4th, and hope you can find your little bro a good setting to forget his miserable last 2 months for Marquette and have a great future.
Most logical thing I've read all day. Sam took one for the Hauser team.
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Agreed.
Both clueless.
Markus was rivals 73rd best prospect in his class, which would project him outside the top 200 players from among 4 classes playing college ball at a time.
All-American voters picked him as either a top 5 or top 10 talent. I calculate him as top 10 until he wore down the last couple of weeks when he wore down.
A.coach who gets a player from outside the top 200 to top 10 can develop talent.
Watching Bailey go from really bad to quite good within a season is quite good.
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We lost 2 of our top 4 players. That sucks, and we all know why it happened.
That's funny. I think I've seen 48+ theories at this point. If we all know why, why are there so many?
I think many are seeing what they want to see. My guess is that there is no smoking gun. No one reason. There rarely is in these situations.
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It's personal. They hate Wojo and Markus messed with the wrong girlfriend.
Well this is sure something.
Hated wojo so much that Sam played here 3 years and got his brother to come here too?
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Most logical thing I've read all day. Sam took one for the Hauser team.
Wrong brother.
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It's personal. They hate Wojo and Markus messed with the wrong girlfriend.
So, Markus is JFB and Sam is KAT.
Yeah that sounds about right.
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Next man up and all that, this is a ridiculous blow for MU for next year. To me, Sam has been the player MU could least afforded to have lost over the last two seasons, and now he's gone from a top 5/top 10 team with gigantic hopes for next year. I was ready for Joey to make the leap like Sam did going from frosh to soph. Can't be overstated, this is a massive, massive blow to MU.
Serious questions need to be asked.
-WTF happened? Three of the biggest recruits that Woj landed have left on bad terms. Henry was going pro no matter what, but I don't think the Ellenson's are sending Christmas cards to Woj.
-The body language police certainly noticed something looked wrong at points during the BE season, from Joey "hitting the wall" to Sam not looking happy or as interested at points. What was going on behind the scenes?
-The disaster that was the end of season, is what was going on behind the scenes explain what happened?
-How does Woj recover from this? We joke on here that "this will help recruiting", but this will be a significant strike against Woj on the recruiting trail. Losing two of your core players going into a season as a projected top ten team? That doesn't just happen, something smells really rotten here.
No matter how it's spun, this is a brutal day for MU basketball.
First, your whole post is spin - which seems to be partly based on your psychic readings of what players were thinking.
So you are upset we didn't get to watch Wally play another year? That was a blow? Are you just a big track fan?
Since 40% of all players now transfer out by their sophomore year, can you please go post on about 340 or the other 352 teams fan sites about the massive blows their programs have faced in recent years?
One of the only teams that wasn't deal a massive blow by your criteria is Nevada who most - including me - thought was a national contender when everyone stays last year and it just didn't pan out.
There has been talk from people who cover the sport for a living that every coach is now scared to even correct players for fear they will transfer. Your "disaster" for the program is only par in modern basketball. Probably why Wojo didn't get Joey off the court when he hit the wall with Bailey as most improved player and Cain and great option.
Losing Markus would have been a disaster. One I didn't think would happen, but glad it didn't.
Playing a whole season without a point guard can certainly lead to over used players hitting the wall. It seemed obvious to me that Markus going down on his wrist at the end of February coupled with needing to bring the ball all the way down the court wore him down. With Elliott and McEwen dealing with the draining part.of getting the ball over half court and perhaps a.few.minutes more rest each game I believe Markus will be the All-American he was in until that point for a whole year.
Hate.to see Sam go. Mu was the rare team with 2 players I calculated were in the top 30 in the country and sometimes a truly great player like him wants to be the go-to guy on a team and as for Joey, sometimes a player with potential who plays poorly needs a.change in scenery.
Not quite clear what new coach would be worth another disasterous transition -;we tried for Bennet and he wasn't interested, and loved buzz but he didn't think he could win there.
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First, your whole post is spin - which seems to be partly based on your psychic readings of what players were thinking.
So you are upset we didn't get to watch Wally play another year? That was a blow? Are you just a big track fan?
Since 40% of all players now transfer out by their sophomore year, can you please go post on about 340 or the other 352 teams fan sites about the massive blows their programs have faced in recent years?
One of the only teams that wasn't deal a massive blow by your criteria is Nevada who most - including me - thought was a national contender when everyone stays last year and it just didn't pan out.
There has been talk from people who cover the sport for a living that every coach is now scared to even correct players for fear they will transfer. Your "disaster" for the program is only par in modern basketball. Probably why Wojo didn't get Joey off the court when he hit the wall with Bailey as most improved player and Cain and great option.
Losing Markus would have been a disaster. One I didn't think would happen, but glad it didn't.
Playing a whole season without a point guard can certainly lead to over used players hitting the wall. It seemed obvious to me that Markus going down on his wrist at the end of February coupled with needing to bring the ball all the way down the court wore him down. With Elliott and McEwen dealing with the draining part.of getting the ball over half court and perhaps a.few.minutes more rest each game I believe Markus will be the All-American he was in until that point for a whole year.
Hate.to see Sam go. Mu was the rare team with 2 players I calculated were in the top 30 in the country and sometimes a truly great player like him wants to be the go-to guy on a team and as for Joey, sometimes a player with potential who plays poorly needs a.change in scenery.
Not quite clear what new coach would be worth another disasterous transition -;we tried for Bennet and he wasn't interested, and loved buzz but he didn't think he could win there.
Umm...cool?
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First, your whole post is spin - which seems to be partly based on your psychic readings of what players were thinking.
So you are upset we didn't get to watch Wally play another year? That was a blow? Are you just a big track fan?
Since 40% of all players now transfer out by their sophomore year, can you please go post on about 340 or the other 352 teams fan sites about the massive blows their programs have faced in recent years?
One of the only teams that wasn't deal a massive blow by your criteria is Nevada who most - including me - thought was a national contender when everyone stays last year and it just didn't pan out.
There has been talk from people who cover the sport for a living that every coach is now scared to even correct players for fear they will transfer. Your "disaster" for the program is only par in modern basketball. Probably why Wojo didn't get Joey off the court when he hit the wall with Bailey as most improved player and Cain and great option.
Losing Markus would have been a disaster. One I didn't think would happen, but glad it didn't.
Playing a whole season without a point guard can certainly lead to over used players hitting the wall. It seemed obvious to me that Markus going down on his wrist at the end of February coupled with needing to bring the ball all the way down the court wore him down. With Elliott and McEwen dealing with the draining part.of getting the ball over half court and perhaps a.few.minutes more rest each game I believe Markus will be the All-American he was in until that point for a whole year.
Hate.to see Sam go. Mu was the rare team with 2 players I calculated were in the top 30 in the country and sometimes a truly great player like him wants to be the go-to guy on a team and as for Joey, sometimes a player with potential who plays poorly needs a.change in scenery.
Not quite clear what new coach would be worth another disasterous transition -;we tried for Bennet and he wasn't interested, and loved buzz but he didn't think he could win there.
What’s our team value add without Markus? Without the Hausers? All three are huge losses and drops MU back into mediocrity. The rest of your post is just smoke until Wojo regroups. These next couple of weeks are make or break.
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Well this is sure something
Hated wojo so much that Sam played here 3 years and got his brother to come here too?
Things changed.
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If my hypothesis is right, what should Wojo have done? Featured Joey? Featured Sam? Promised that Joey would again play at least 29 mpg? In all seriousness, what if the cause of all of this is that Wojo told Joey that he was not going to be featured and would be competing for minutes and a starting position? Is it Wojo's fault then? And if so, how? If this stems from Joey not being featured and Markus returning, please explain what Wojo should have done or what you would have done or said if you were the coach.
Now those are some tough questions. What if it all boils down to a young man wanting to be featured (Odartey Blankston, Jeronne Maymon) and being told it wasn't going to happen the next year? That the BEPOY and second team all American was still going to be the alpha? And, oh, by the way, Bailey plays better defense than you.
Jaysus Tower, the heart and soul of a top 10 team transfers out and you’re still making excuses for Wojo. Give it a rest.
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First, your whole post is spin - which seems to be partly based on your psychic readings of what players were thinking.
So you are upset we didn't get to watch Wally play another year? That was a blow? Are you just a big track fan?
Since 40% of all players now transfer out by their sophomore year, can you please go post on about 340 or the other 352 teams fan sites about the massive blows their programs have faced in recent years?
One of the only teams that wasn't deal a massive blow by your criteria is Nevada who most - including me - thought was a national contender when everyone stays last year and it just didn't pan out.
There has been talk from people who cover the sport for a living that every coach is now scared to even correct players for fear they will transfer. Your "disaster" for the program is only par in modern basketball. Probably why Wojo didn't get Joey off the court when he hit the wall with Bailey as most improved player and Cain and great option.
Losing Markus would have been a disaster. One I didn't think would happen, but glad it didn't.
Playing a whole season without a point guard can certainly lead to over used players hitting the wall. It seemed obvious to me that Markus going down on his wrist at the end of February coupled with needing to bring the ball all the way down the court wore him down. With Elliott and McEwen dealing with the draining part.of getting the ball over half court and perhaps a.few.minutes more rest each game I believe Markus will be the All-American he was in until that point for a whole year.
Hate.to see Sam go. Mu was the rare team with 2 players I calculated were in the top 30 in the country and sometimes a truly great player like him wants to be the go-to guy on a team and as for Joey, sometimes a player with potential who plays poorly needs a.change in scenery.
Not quite clear what new coach would be worth another disasterous transition -;we tried for Bennet and he wasn't interested, and loved buzz but he didn't think he could win there.
By looking at your face it looks like Wojo had some corn on the cob for dinner...
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Anybody else starting to have worries about Scholls ability? Last 4 years of men’s program, then Kreiger leaving, now this
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Anybody else starting to have worries about Scholls ability? Last 4 years of men’s program, then Kreiger leaving, now this
Who's this Krieger person everyone keeps going on about?
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Who's this Krieger person everyone keeps going on about?
Ali? The USWNT player? Didn’t know she had an MU connection
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Anybody else starting to have worries about Scholls ability? Last 4 years of men’s program, then Kreiger leaving, now this
Scholl’s been just fine. Let’s see what happens over the next 12 months.
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Jaysus Tower, the heart and soul of a top 10 team transfers out and you’re still making excuses for Wojo. Give it a rest.
Defending Wojo. The questions are the same. Sam and Joey are leaving. Because they are unhappy with Wojo. Why are they unhappy with Wojo? Much speculation. The hot take is because they don't think Wojo can win or that that Markus is a ball hog. I am saying they are leaving because they aren't going to be featured. Speculation, too. Saying the exact same thing from a different angle.
Those predisposed to disliking Wojo say it is Wojos fault. I, who have catalogued my concerns about Wojo multiple times, am simply asking that if the issue truly is about Markus's touches and playing time, should Wojo have capitulated to the Hausers?
40% of D1 basketball players transfer. Marquette has been particularly susceptible to this ever since Odartey in 2002. This one hurts more because it breaks up what looked like the best Marquette team in 40 years. But the sun came up and there is another season to prepare for.
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40% of D1 basketball players transfer.
I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.
Not directed at you personally, but I think it’s disingenuous to use this talking point.
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Henry
Of course. You do not see backbone of programs, especially dream type kids, bolt like the Hausers did. Very troubling for anyone not looking to make an excuse for another setback.
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I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.
Not directed at you personally, but I think it’s disingenuous to use this talking point.
Not to mention at the personal expense of a 1,000 point scorer prolonging the start of his professional career by a year and the other burning a year of eligibility in order to get out. Circumstances here are wildly different.
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I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.
Not directed at you personally, but I think it’s disingenuous to use this talking point.
+Infinity
Players transfer for a variety of reasons obviously, but typically I'd rank them as 1) Playing time, 2) Homesick/Play closer to home, 3) Want to go from a mid major/low tier to a power conference program
None of these apply to the Hausers. I'd like someone to name the last time two starting five caliber players from a potential top 10 team decided to transfer out of a program (with no coaching change, no potential infractions).
Unless I'm completely at a loss for another example, this transfer scenario has never happened before in college basketball.
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Defending Wojo. The questions are the same. Sam and Joey are leaving. Because they are unhappy with Wojo. Why are they unhappy with Wojo? Much speculation. The hot take is because they don't think Wojo can win or that that Markus is a ball hog. I am saying they are leaving because they aren't going to be featured. Speculation, too. Saying the exact same thing from a different angle.
Those predisposed to disliking Wojo say it is Wojos fault. I, who have catalogued my concerns about Wojo multiple times, am simply asking that if the issue truly is about Markus's touches and playing time, should Wojo have capitulated to the Hausers?
40% of D1 basketball players transfer. Marquette has been particularly susceptible to this ever since Odartey in 2002. This one hurts more because it breaks up what looked like the best Marquette team in 40 years. But the sun came up and there is another season to prepare for.
There is no way to slice this without it being a huge disaster of Wojo's making. This isn't Jamal Cain transferring, which would have totally made sense as part of the 40% and we all would have shrugged off. Sam was a three-year starter and Joey got 30 mpg as a freshman. That's being featured. If Wojo told them they were going to play less next year then his diagnosis must have been it was them that led to the collapse rather than his coaching/Markus's injury or slump. If so, that's a terrible read by Wojo and shows again he has no clue how to assemble talent into a winning basketball team.
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+Infinity
Players transfer for a variety of reasons obviously, but typically I'd rank them as 1) Playing time, 2) Homesick/Play closer to home, 3) Want to go from a mid major/low tier to a power conference program
None of these apply to the Hausers. I'd like someone to name the last time two starting five caliber players from a potential top 10 team decided to transfer out of a program (with no coaching change, no potential infractions).
Unless I'm completely at a loss for another example, this transfer scenario has never happened before in college basketball.
Not to mention that if they go anywhere other than UW they will probably be moving significantly FARTHER away from home.
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1SE
But likely to a winning culture. This program is not even a work in progress at the moment.
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I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.
Not directed at you personally, but I think it’s disingenuous to use this talking point.
Solid point
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No doubt it sucks. I am not absolving Wojo. But, as throughout the season, a whole bunch of posters refuse to lay any blame at the feet of the Hausers. Which to me is astonishing. Other big name transfers, the default is to say it was a bad fit, or the kid wanted to be featured and it wasn't going to happen or they got bad advice.
Here, the default is to hang it all on Wojo and Markus. Nearly unprecedented in the history of transfers to hang it on the coach and the BEPOY/second team All-American.
Odd.
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1SE
But likely to a winning culture. This program is not even a work in progress at the moment.
I know we've been of a similar mind about a lot of things and as disappointed I was by the end-of-season I thought that these things happen, we were returning basically the entire team and adding a hopefully missing piece in Koby, and was ok with giving Wojo his season 6 as the chance for redemption which I thought would be realistic to achieve.
But now with the guts gone from this team I have no idea what direction the program goes in. My heart goes out to the other guys on the team who must be similarly gutted. My biggest concern is that all we have to look forward now is one more season of Hero ball that leaves us on the outside looking in just for a NCAA berth. Is that where anyone thought we would be in year 6?
And managing the roster IS the coach's job. If Wojo can't run a locker room well enough to keep two guys (HIS recruits) getting 30 mpg happy then I don't see how he can possibly manage roster in the long term.
But again, out of fairness to the guys left let them play next season out without blowing it up and maybe they'll catch lightning in the bottle. But the whole season should basically be a year-long HC search. IIIIFFF Wojo makes it to the S16 next year he can get on the long-list of coaches for 2020-2021.
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Here, the default is to hang it all on Wojo and Markus. Nearly unprecedented in the history of transfers to hang it on the coach and the BEPOY/second team All-American.
Odd.
I agree it is odd -- this is the most abnormal transfer situation in MU history. I am sure there is plenty of individual blame to go around, but if you are thinking about the 'program' then Wojo has to be at the center.
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Defending Wojo. The questions are the same. Sam and Joey are leaving. Because they are unhappy with Wojo. Why are they unhappy with Wojo? Much speculation. The hot take is because they don't think Wojo can win or that that Markus is a ball hog. I am saying they are leaving because they aren't going to be featured. Speculation, too. Saying the exact same thing from a different angle.
Those predisposed to disliking Wojo say it is Wojos fault. I, who have catalogued my concerns about Wojo multiple times, am simply asking that if the issue truly is about Markus's touches and playing time, should Wojo have capitulated to the Hausers?
40% of D1 basketball players transfer. Marquette has been particularly susceptible to this ever since Odartey in 2002. This one hurts more because it breaks up what looked like the best Marquette team in 40 years. But the sun came up and there is another season to prepare for.
You can attempt to defend Wojo on any singular issue and make a case for him, what you can't defend is the overall direction of this program, cumulatively, he hasn't gotten it done and yesterday the program became a dumpster fire. Wojo is not up to this, it's okay to realize it and admit it.
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There is no way to slice this without it being a huge disaster of Wojo's making. This isn't Jamal Cain transferring, which would have totally made sense as part of the 40% and we all would have shrugged off. Sam was a three-year starter and Joey got 30 mpg as a freshman. That's being featured. If Wojo told them they were going to play less next year then his diagnosis must have been it was them that led to the collapse rather than his coaching/Markus's injury or slump. If so, that's a terrible read by Wojo and shows again he has no clue how to assemble talent into a winning basketball team.
Or, he's had that same conversation with all of the major minute loggers from last year (Sam, Joey, Markus, Sacar), told them to expect to see those minutes decline/roles change somewhat due to the new players coming in next year, and two of the four couldn't handle it and decided to leave. That's just as plausible as what you've outlined above.
Listen, I liked the Hausers a lot and they are very good players. Their leaving is a big blow. However, to pretend that their isn't some blame on them in this whole scenario doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, this whole thing reeks of selfishness and a sense of entitlement on their part.
It's incumbent on Wojo to fill their spots with impact players...i don't know if he can, but I am going to be rooting like hell for him to do so. I personally want some guys that are multi-dimensional, can do more than just shoot threes and rebound. Slashers, athletes, guys who can facilitate offense.
Let's see if he can do it.
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Or, he's had that same conversation with all of the major minute loggers from last year (Sam, Joey, Markus, Sacar), told them to expect to see those minutes decline/roles change somewhat due to the new players coming in next year, and two of the four couldn't handle it and decided to leave. That's just as plausible as what you've outlined above.
Do you seriously expect that there was going to be a significant change in Sam's minutes next year? Do you seriously think that Sam hasn't known for at least two years it was likely that Marcus was going to be the featured dude going into next year, and that Sam was going to be 1a or #2? I just can't. I am willing to place some responsibility on the Hausers, but let's be clear where the responsibility for directing this program lies. This is a S show of epic proportions. People can trot out their attempts to gloss over this mess, but the fact no one can point to a situation like this happening before makes this, by definition, unique. The number 2 and 3 players on a team expected to be in the top ten next year, one with only a year of eligibility left, just abandoned your program, and Wojo either caused it or couldn't stop it. Please tell me how that is anything but a massive failure?
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Do you seriously expect that there was going to be a significant change in Sam's minutes next year? Do you seriously think that Sam hasn't known for at least two years it was likely that Marcus was going to be the featured dude going into next year, and that Sam was going to be 1a or #2? I just can't. I am willing to place some responsibility on the Hausers, but let's be clear where the responsibility for directing this program lies. This is a S show of epic proportions. People can trot out their attempts to gloss over this mess, but the fact no one can point to a situation like this happening before makes this, by definition, unique. The number 2 and 3 players on a team expected to be in the top ten next year, one with only a year of eligibility left, just abandoned your program, and Wojo either caused it or couldn't stop it. Please tell me how that is anything but a massive failure?
Thank you, what I've been trying to say but put much better.
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Do you seriously expect that there was going to be a significant change in Sam's minutes next year? Do you seriously think that Sam hasn't known for at least two years it was likely that Marcus was going to be the featured dude going into next year, and that Sam was going to be 1a or #2? I just can't. I am willing to place some responsibility on the Hausers, but let's be clear where the responsibility for directing this program lies. This is a S show of epic proportions. People can trot out their attempts to gloss over this mess, but the fact no one can point to a situation like this happening before makes this, by definition, unique. The number 2 and 3 players on a team expected to be in the top ten next year, one with only a year of eligibility left, just abandoned your program, and Wojo either caused it or couldn't stop it. Please tell me how that is anything but a massive failure?
Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.
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Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.
He transferred because his Mom was having health problems. Apples to oranges with the Hausers.
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Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.
"Closer to home" "ill mother" "Immediately eligible" due to a hardship waiver.
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"Closer to home" "ill mother" "Immediately eligible" due to a hardship waiver.
Not the entire story. It was generally thought that when he transferred that he wouldn't get the hardship waiver because he wasn't from NY. People were quite surprised that he got it, because it was kind of unprecedented. Haanif didn't get one.
Edit: Also, I'm not a doctor, but IDT that "being sick" and "having a concussion" should be in the same category. I'm sure the NCAA did it's due diligence in reviewing his situation, but it seems like he played the system IMO.
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Fair enough. There were obviously reasons for this. I guess I just don't see a way given the situation that those "reasons" couldn't be addressed.
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Fair enough. There were obviously reasons for this. I guess I just don't see a way given the situation that those "reasons" couldn't be addressed.
Feels like the proof needed for waivers these days are available on the sites that somehow make it legit for non-seeing impaired people to bring full size dogs on planes. Sam has to be close to graduating doesn't he? Maybe a few summer courses and all of a sudden he's a grad transfer?
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There is no way to slice this without it being a huge disaster of Wojo's making. This isn't Jamal Cain transferring, which would have totally made sense as part of the 40% and we all would have shrugged off. Sam was a three-year starter and Joey got 30 mpg as a freshman. That's being featured. If Wojo told them they were going to play less next year then his diagnosis must have been it was them that led to the collapse rather than his coaching/Markus's injury or slump.
This is just a silly emotional assessment. They were going to play less next year, because there are additional players coming in that would make the team better.
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This is just a silly emotional assessment. They were going to play less next year, because there are additional players coming in that would make the team better.
I could see Joey playing less. Sam not as much - maybe a minute or two per game? Now, it's possible he would have seen even less shots with Kobe and Greg added to the mix.
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Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.
Fire Pearl. Clearly his inability to keep his top scorer is why Auburn tanked this year.
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Henry
Of course. You do not see backbone of programs, especially dream type kids, bolt like the Hausers did. Very troubling for anyone not looking to make an excuse for another setback.
The significance of this cannot me minimized. The Hausers weren't just guys on the roster. They were core, foundational members of the basketball program. Wojo recruited them as such, and allocated playing time and resources to them as such.
The fundamental question that needs to be addressed is this: How was the situation allowed to deteriorate to the point where two of the core members of the program saw no other option but to quit?
You can speculate about supposed meetings where ultimatums were thrown down. How was the communication handled so poorly up to that point that a come to Jesus meeting was the only path forward that the Hausers felt they had?
You can speculate about how Hausers felt their roles moving forward would be diminished by incoming players or other guys already on the roster. Wojo made the decision to allocate recruiting resources, award scholarships to them, and give them enormously important roles on the team. The head coach is in charge of managing his roster. How did the communication break down to the point where the only option the Hausers felt they had to rectify their changing roles on the team was to quit?
Not to mention, who is to be held accountable for the decision to give two guys critical roles in the future of the program who may have turned out to be as mentally soft as this speculation makes them seem? It may not even be true, but the if the speculation exists then this question needs to be asked.
It's the job of the head coach to manage his team so things like this don't happen, and he failed. Two of his best players quit the damn team and the man in charge of managing the all of the individual circumstances that ultimately led up to this sh!tshow did not do his job.
That fact is immutable and the surrounding circumstances do nothing to mitigate it.
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1SE
But likely to a winning culture. This program is not even a work in progress at the moment.
Goose:
I have been fighting the urge to agree with you on statements like this for some time. Before yesterday, I had hoped that with the move to being a Top 5 or so team (at least on paper), we were finally breaking through.
Now, we're a dumpster fire burning toxic waste.
We'll see what happens next year but either Wojo better prove us wrong and have one heck of a 2020 recruiting year or its back to the coaching market.
Yikes!
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This is just a silly emotional assessment. They were going to play less next year, because there are additional players coming in that would make the team better.
OK, but why isn't that the case almost everywhere in the upper reaches? I can't believe that MSU or Va won't recruit on top of either while the Hausers sit next year, or make any like promise.
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The only place they can go and have any reasonable shot at a better situation than at Marquette in terms of Team Hauser playing time is Wisconsin. And with Joey's notable defensive lapses, I don't see him fitting into the Roadkill's immediate plans.
Maybe Greg Gard is in far worse shape than we thought. He almost would have to be if he waives what he stands for to accommodate Team Hauser.
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I know Bruce Pearl. I've had dinner with Bruce Pearl. Steve Wojciechowski is no Bruce Pearl.
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I know Bruce Pearl. I've had dinner with Bruce Pearl. Steve Wojciechowski is no Bruce Pearl.
Good.
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When is the next opportunity for Wojo to speak to the press?
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When is the next opportunity for Wojo to speak to the press?
Wojo isn't going to go out of his way to do press, nor should he in my opinion. There's really nothing good that can come out of him going on any radio show. You'll hear snippets from him in press releases for Symir reclassifying or whatever other roster moves shake out. Big East Media Day will be the next time Wojo gets in front of a press corp.
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40% of D1 basketball players transfer.
Blah, blah, blah. What % of three year starters who are co - MVPs transfer? The idea that Sam Hauser would transfer over playing time is ludicrous. He would have been the best or second best player on the team next year. In my opinion Joey would have been #3.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Sam was a me first player. Every indication is that he was an exceptional teammate. The quality of the coaches now pursuing him (and Joey) bears that out.
Tim Maymon was a good player but known (along with his father) to be a risk. Before he had accomplished squat his Father started making demands. Buzz kicked him off of the team. Tim cried and tried to beg his way back on - Buzz said no. He had no choice but to transfer. Comparing the Maymons to the Hausers (as you have done elsewhere) is convenient if you're pushing a preferred narrative but those comparisons are clearly unfair to the Hausers.
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Blah, blah, blah. What % of three year starters who are co - MVPs transfer? The idea that Sam Hauser would transfer over playing time is ludicrous. He would have been the best or second best player on the team next year. In my opinion Joey would have been #3.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Sam was a me first player. Every indication is that he was an exceptional teammate. The quality of the coaches now pursuing him (and Joey) bears that out.
Tim Maymon was a good player but known (along with his father) to be a risk. Before he had accomplished squat his Father started making demands. Buzz kicked him off of the team. Tim cried and tried to beg his way back on - Buzz said no. He had no choice but to transfer. Comparing the Maymons to the Hausers (as you have done elsewhere) is convenient if you're pushing a preferred narrative but those comparisons are clearly unfair to the Hausers.
Tim was the dad. Jeronne was the player.
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Blah, blah, blah. What % of three year starters who are co - MVPs transfer? The idea that Sam Hauser would transfer over playing time is ludicrous. He would have been the best or second best player on the team next year. In my opinion Joey would have been #3.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Sam was a me first player. Every indication is that he was an exceptional teammate. The quality of the coaches now pursuing him (and Joey) bears that out.
Tim Maymon was a good player but known (along with his father) to be a risk. Before he had accomplished squat his Father started making demands. Buzz kicked him off of the team. Tim cried and tried to beg his way back on - Buzz said no. He had no choice but to transfer. Comparing the Maymons to the Hausers (as you have done elsewhere) is convenient if you're pushing a preferred narrative but those comparisons are clearly unfair to the Hausers.
Lenny, this is about as clear as I can say it. As of 48 hours ago, Marquette had 5 starters returning. IMO, for whatever reason, perhaps how he played in practice, perhaps Wojo's desire to change things up, Koby was slated to start next year. Where were his minutes going to come from? Markus? Was Sacar going to relagated to a Matt Heldt role, particularly with Elliot coming back? Unlikely. If you aren't relegating Sacar to the end of the bench, the minutes have to come from the Hausers. And what about Bailey. Again, IMO, Bailey outplayed Joey the last month of the season. Where were Bailey's minutes going to come from?
I don't think there are bad guys here. I think there were competing visions of the team. The coach was going to have to bring a Hauser off of the bench and they might even have been competing at the same position. The Hausers probably thought their best chance to be featured was if Markus left. They probably aren't wrong. Markus didn't leave. Only 200 minutes. And that talent and depth that had MU fans salivating meant that not only would the Hausers not be featured, they were going to be competing for minutes at the same position.
BTW, it is a fact that 40% of players transfer. Deal with it. Players transfer because they are homesick sometimes. But usually, it is because their vision of their role on the team and the coach's vision of the player's role are not the same. 24 hours later, this is what this feels like to me. It sucks. It is brutal. Final 4 visions just disintegrated. It hurts. And it may be the snowball that leads to a rebuild after a coaching change. Done in by too many good players.
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Tim was the dad. Jeronne was the player.
Correct.
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Lenny, this is about as clear as I can say it. As of 48 hours ago, Marquette had 5 starters returning. IMO, for whatever reason, perhaps how he played in practice, perhaps Wojo's desire to change things up, Koby was slated to start next year. Where were his minutes going to come from? Markus? Was Sacar going to relagated to a Matt Heldt role, particularly with Elliot coming back? Unlikely. If you aren't relegating Sacar to the end of the bench, the minutes have to come from the Hausers. And what about Bailey. Again, IMO, Bailey outplayed Joey the last month of the season. Where were Bailey's minutes going to come from?
I don't think there are bad guys here. I think there were competing visions of the team. The coach was going to have to bring a Hauser off of the bench and they might even have been competing at the same position. The Hausers probably thought their best chance to be featured was if Markus left. They probably aren't wrong. Markus didn't leave. Only 200 minutes. And that talent and depth that had MU fans salivating meant that not only would the Hausers not be featured, they were going to be competing for minutes at the same position.
BTW, it is a fact that 40% of players transfer. Deal with it. Players transfer because they are homesick sometimes. But usually, it is because their vision of their role on the team and the coach's vision of the player's role are not the same. 24 hours later, this is what this feels like to me. It sucks. It is brutal. Final 4 visions just disintegrated. It hurts. And it may be the snowball that leads to a rebuild after a coaching change. Done in by too many good players.
Thank you. Been saying this for two days, but for some reason people's emotions are causing them to simply ignore new players coming in and the realty of the math.
I would actually rephrase the the bolded part...in this case, I would suggest the Hausers accurately read the writing on the wall, and their vision was actually exactly the same as the coach's, and that's why they made the decision they made.
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I said after the Buffalo game that trouble was brewing. The Hausers flat out would not pass the ball the last five minutes. They had enough of a guy scoring 25 straight points and not passing. This was brewing all season.
Wojo did a horrible job with keeping the reins on Howard and shame on him. Horrible on court coaching and caused issues in the locker room.
If the Buffalo game was what set them off, where their teammate was in one of the all-time zones I've ever seen and blew open a massive lead in a hug non-con game against a top 15 team, and they reacted in game by saying "eff this guy, now I'm not passing," then GTFO.
Somehow I doubt that's the case though.
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Lenny, this is about as clear as I can say it. As of 48 hours ago, Marquette had 5 starters returning. IMO, for whatever reason, perhaps how he played in practice, perhaps Wojo's desire to change things up, Koby was slated to start next year. Where were his minutes going to come from? Markus? Was Sacar going to relagated to a Matt Heldt role, particularly with Elliot coming back? Unlikely. If you aren't relegating Sacar to the end of the bench, the minutes have to come from the Hausers. And what about Bailey. Again, IMO, Bailey outplayed Joey the last month of the season. Where were Bailey's minutes going to come from?
I don't think there are bad guys here. I think there were competing visions of the team. The coach was going to have to bring a Hauser off of the bench and they might even have been competing at the same position. The Hausers probably thought their best chance to be featured was if Markus left. They probably aren't wrong. Markus didn't leave. Only 200 minutes. And that talent and depth that had MU fans salivating meant that not only would the Hausers not be featured, they were going to be competing for minutes at the same position.
BTW, it is a fact that 40% of players transfer. Deal with it. Players transfer because they are homesick sometimes. But usually, it is because their vision of their role on the team and the coach's vision of the player's role are not the same. 24 hours later, this is what this feels like to me. It sucks. It is brutal. Final 4 visions just disintegrated. It hurts. And it may be the snowball that leads to a rebuild after a coaching change. Done in by too many good players.
What percentage of starters leave after 3 seasons? More importantly, if Joey was afraid Koby was perhaps taking his minutes then he better reconsider where he wants to transfer too. No matter how we slice it, this looks bad for Marquette basketball overall.
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It's personal. They hate Wojo and Markus messed with the wrong girlfriend.
Intriguing. Care to elaborate?
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What percentage of starters leave after 3 seasons? More importantly, if Joey was afraid Koby was perhaps taking his minutes then he better reconsider where he wants to transfer too. No matter how we slice it, this looks bad for Marquette basketball overall.
It isn't common. Robert Jackson comes to mind. Grad transfers of starters who have completed their 4th year are fairly common. Nowhere have I said that it doesn't suck.
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I know Bruce Pearl. I've had dinner with Bruce Pearl. Steve Wojciechowski is no Bruce Pearl.
Bruce Pearl is a lying, cheating hypocrite. Hooo Gives Uh Chit, Hey?
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Lenny, this is about as clear as I can say it. As of 48 hours ago, Marquette had 5 starters returning. IMO, for whatever reason, perhaps how he played in practice, perhaps Wojo's desire to change things up, Koby was slated to start next year. Where were his minutes going to come from? Markus? Was Sacar going to relagated to a Matt Heldt role, particularly with Elliot coming back? Unlikely. If you aren't relegating Sacar to the end of the bench, the minutes have to come from the Hausers. And what about Bailey. Again, IMO, Bailey outplayed Joey the last month of the season. Where were Bailey's minutes going to come from?
I don't think there are bad guys here. I think there were competing visions of the team. The coach was going to have to bring a Hauser off of the bench and they might even have been competing at the same position. The Hausers probably thought their best chance to be featured was if Markus left. They probably aren't wrong. Markus didn't leave. Only 200 minutes. And that talent and depth that had MU fans salivating meant that not only would the Hausers not be featured, they were going to be competing for minutes at the same position.
BTW, it is a fact that 40% of players transfer. Deal with it. Players transfer because they are homesick sometimes. But usually, it is because their vision of their role on the team and the coach's vision of the player's role are not the same. 24 hours later, this is what this feels like to me. It sucks. It is brutal. Final 4 visions just disintegrated. It hurts. And it may be the snowball that leads to a rebuild after a coaching change. Done in by too many good players.
If you're correct that our co MVP senior and 6 time Big East freshman of the week left because Wojo sat them down and told them to be prepared for lesser roles in 2019-20 then Wojo should be fired immediately. Sam should have been taking MORE shots in 18-19 and the idea that his role would be further reduced from the optimum in 19-20 indicates a coach who can't control his star (Markus) or one who is OK with 41% usage and a low ORtg. When you have too many "good" players the job of the coach is to make sure the best (Markus, Sam) and potentially best (Joey) are happy. If in doing so you lose some good players it's the cost of doing business.
Bottom line, we disagree. Your scenario seems implausible to me. I think it much more likely that Sam and Joey tired of standing around watching while Markus, evidently encouraged by Wojo, played one against 5. Winning didn't ease the pain and when Wojo's solution to Markus's late season swoon was even more Markus (41% usage for an "injured" player? Really?) and even more standing around watching Markus for the rest of the team it became untenable. The team collapsed and there was no way Sam and Joey were going to return to more of the same next year.
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OK. We disagree.
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Lenny, this is about as clear as I can say it. As of 48 hours ago, Marquette had 5 starters returning.
This is actually inaccurate. As of 48 (or 72) hours ago we THOUGHT we had 5 starters returning but that was never the case. We either had 4 (if Markus left) or 3 (if Markus stayed).
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This is actually inaccurate. As of 48 (or 72) hours ago we THOUGHT we had 5 starters returning but that was never the case. We either had 4 (if Markus left) or 3 (if Markus stayed).
Fair enough.
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Maybe a little Tyler Herro envy by Joey.
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Blah, blah, blah. What % of three year starters who are co - MVPs transfer? The idea that Sam Hauser would transfer over playing time is ludicrous. He would have been the best or second best player on the team next year. In my opinion Joey would have been #3.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Sam was a me first player. Every indication is that he was an exceptional teammate. The quality of the coaches now pursuing him (and Joey) bears that out.
Tim Maymon was a good player but known (along with his father) to be a risk. Before he had accomplished squat his Father started making demands. Buzz kicked him off of the team. Tim cried and tried to beg his way back on - Buzz said no. He had no choice but to transfer. Comparing the Maymons to the Hausers (as you have done elsewhere) is convenient if you're pushing a preferred narrative but those comparisons are clearly unfair to the Hausers.
Until now
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Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season.
Now, is this on Markus? Yes, but the ultimate responsibility resides with Wojo. If the coach decides that it's fine for an injured player to chuck the ball 2x the average while being below average, then that's on the coach. And frankly, I wouldn't want to play for that coach or with that player anymore either.
If the Hausers are such babies, then good riddance to bad trash.
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Maybe a little Tyler Herro envy by Joey.
Very possible. I thought our program was supposed to be so horrible, yet hmmm a kid supposedly on a par with Tyler Herro, KY star and future NBA player...ends up possibly being told his minutes will decrease. That’s a sign our program is close to being elite. I thought this kind of depth/minute reduction thing only happens at the blue bloods?
So we lose said kid and his bro, and now we’re NCAA bottom feeders. Got it.
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Colt
The Hauser’s were not losing minutes to anyone on the current roster. Again, folks were talking Cain going to a mid major. Guys we are losing are going to major program. I am big Bailey fan, but he was not starting over Joey.
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Colt
The Hauser’s were not losing minutes to anyone on the current roster. Again, folks were talking Cain going to a mid major. Guys we are losing are going to major program. I am big Bailey fan, but he was not starting over Joey.
Goose, I'm with you 100%. The bias post-transfer announcement is astounding. Any program would be happy to have either Sam or Joey, let alone both.
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Avenue
All of us want MU to be elite, but simply wanting it does not make it true. We lost two very, very good college players and do not have anyone to step in to replace them at the moment. Anyone that thinks otherwise is trying hard to believe it or convince others to believe it.
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Until now
Because YOUR feelings are hurt. If it didn't surface in 90+ games or in 3 years of interacting with his teammates I'm gonna guess that's not who Sam is.
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Lenny
Sam Hauser is a great kid and will be remembered as a great Warrior by anyone that appreciates the game. Everyone talks about not bashing kids on here, but once something goes other direction they seem to pile on. Sam was a big time baller for the Marquette Warriors.
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Colt
The Hauser’s were not losing minutes to anyone on the current roster.
I keep hearing this, but he question the Wojo is terrible crowd can't seem to answer...where were Koby and Elliott's minutes going to come from? Remember you only have 200 to work with.
Chartouney averaged 15MPG and the dude barely played the second half of the season (not gonna do the math, but guessing it was something more like 6 or 7 during that stretch). Elliott already averaged ~15Mpg his Freshman year.
So from the way the rotation ended up this year, you have effectively freed up less than 10 minutes, yet you were likely looking at ~40 or more for Koby and Elliott combined. Where exactly were those going to come from?
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Because YOUR feelings are hurt. If it didn't surface in 90+ games or in 3 years of interacting with his teammates I'm gonna guess that's not who Sam is.
My feelings are not hurt in the slightest. I have no emotional attachment to the Hausers. I don't care that they are from Wisconsin and I don't think it matters one iota in the long run that they left. That's just my opinion.
In fact, while the usual doom and gloom old-timers are posting about what a disaster this whole thing is and how Wojo should have been fired minutes after accepting the job, and that the program is a shambles, I have been posting that, DEPENDING ON WHO WOJO FILLS THE SCHOLARSHIPS WITH, this could end up working out just fine.
The very same people have been bitching non-stop about how unathletic the team is compared to the teams that advanced in the tournament...we were a step slow, etc. Guess what, the two most unathletic, slow guys on the team just bolted. Two of the more one-dimensional players (spot up shooters, iso post up players) on what has been ridiculed as a one-dimensional offensive system (chuck threes) just bolted.
IF WOJO CAN RECRUIT ATHLETIC BALL HANDLERS/SLASHERS to fill their spots, this could be totally transformative for how MU plays. It totally hinges on Wojo's ability to recruit now.
This is what I'm hoping for. As far as the Hausers go, I enjoyed watching them play for the most part, although I was amazed that Joey had zero explosiveness around the basket, was puzzled by how turnover prone they could both be in key situations, and of course loved watching them hit big shots. Couldn't care less about them now that they've made this decision.
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Atl MU
He has been recruiting for five years. Where are the type of players you noted?
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Atl MU
He has been recruiting for five years. Where are the type of players you noted?
They have not been in Wisconsin, that is for sure.
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Colt
The Hauser’s were not losing minutes to anyone on the current roster. Again, folks were talking Cain going to a mid major. Guys we are losing are going to major program. I am big Bailey fan, but he was not starting over Joey.
I mostly agree with you, Goose...but...
I really like Sam and Joey. Sam is one of my favorite players in the last 20 years. And it's pretty apparent from comments on this board that I liked Joey a lot more than most of the other posters. I recognized he had some problems, but honestly think he might end up even better than Sam.
That said, I think it's pretty much undeniable that McEwen was going to play more than more minutes than Chartouny ever did. Those minutes are going to come from somewhere. I think Bailey will improve and play more minutes than he played this past year. Those minutes are going to come from somewhere. Elliott is going to be getting some minutes. Those minutes are going to come from somewhere.
I understand that only one of those guys is a forward, but minutes are minutes. There are only 200 minutes in the game. I'd be willing to bet that those three guys combined will play more minutes than Chartouny, Heldt and Bailey played this season. Again, those minutes would come from somewhere. I don't think that Markus and Sam would have suffered much reduction in minutes. So, I think it's pretty clear that Joey would have been losing some minutes. And Anim. That doesn't mean I think Joey would lose his starting spot, or that those other players are better than Joey. But, if those three guys are going to get their minutes, I think Joey was going to lose some minutes.
But, I'm also firmly in the camp that Sam and Joey didn't leave because they were worried about playing time.
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StillaWarrior
Anim would have lost minutes. Some on here feared him going grad transfer. The Hauser’s were the backbone of the program.
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O, dis is addition bye subtraction. Hoo new, hey?
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Colt
The Hauser’s were not losing minutes to anyone on the current roster. Again, folks were talking Cain going to a mid major. Guys we are losing are going to major program. I am big Bailey fan, but he was not starting over Joey.
if Koby started, who would have come off the bench?
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Tower
Anim, if he returned.
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Avenue
All of us want MU to be elite, but simply wanting it does not make it true. We lost two very, very good college players and do not have anyone to step in to replace them at the moment. Anyone that thinks otherwise is trying hard to believe it or convince others to believe it.
Lots of people think otherwise, Goose. Of course they are thinking with their head in the sand.
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Lenny
Sam Hauser is a great kid and will be remembered as a great Warrior by anyone that appreciates the game. Everyone talks about not bashing kids on here, but once something goes other direction they seem to pile on. Sam was a big time baller for the Marquette Warriors.
Goose I am definitely guilty of a little bashing, and it is not a “look” I like, but all I really said was that they quit on the team and they are slow. The way I presented it was definitely not proper considering that they are fine young men who gave their all for the program. I do feel that to leave under the circumstances that they did, with us on the cusp of a top5 ranking, is nothing but selfish. In today’s day and age, I understand that this seems to be the way of the world, especially with every kid thinking they are THE MAN.
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May be too simplistic, maybe not. Basketball is supposed to be fun. The Hausers weren't having any fun.
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StillaWarrior
Anim would have lost minutes. Some on here feared him going grad transfer. The Hauser’s were the backbone of the program.
I agree with all of those statements. But none of those facts changes my opinion that Joey Hauser would have lost minutes next year. I'm not suggesting that Joey's minutes would have fallen off a cliff, but you said "the Hauser's weren't losing minutes to anyone on the current roster." I disagree. Joey would have lost some.
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Lenny
Sam Hauser is a great kid and will be remembered as a great Warrior by anyone that appreciates the game. Everyone talks about not bashing kids on here, but once something goes other direction they seem to pile on. Sam was a big time baller for the Marquette Warriors.
Correct again but most will not get past the emotional stuff. This was a huge loss for our program. It is not the end of the program but it highlights the weaknesses of the current regime.
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nm
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I agree with all of those statements. But none of those facts changes my opinion that Joey Hauser would have lost minutes next year. I'm not suggesting that Joey's minutes would have fallen off a cliff, but you said "the Hauser's weren't losing minutes to anyone on the current roster." I disagree. Joey would have lost some.
Yes, I think Joey would have lost a few minutes. Doesn't change the fact he would have been a big contributor for the team next season, with a far greater role in two years. A significant loss.
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Goose, I'm with you 100%. The bias post-transfer announcement is astounding. Any program would be happy to have either Sam or Joey, let alone both.
As a Raider fan I witnessed first hand fans rationalize the loss of Khalil Mack as “he wasn’t that great anyways”. It’s what fans do and it’s silly. The Hausers are great basketball players.
That said if they go to UW they’re dead to me
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Yes, I think Joey would have lost a few minutes. Doesn't change the fact he would have been a big contributor for the team next season, with a far greater role in two years. A significant loss.
I agree 100%, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm a big fan of the Hausers, and I think that this is a huge loss for the team and the program. I just think that Goose is over-stating when he says Joey wasn't going to lose any minutes.
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My feelings are not hurt in the slightest. I have no emotional attachment to the Hausers. I don't care that they are from Wisconsin and I don't think it matters one iota in the long run that they left. That's just my opinion.
In fact, while the usual doom and gloom old-timers are posting about what a disaster this whole thing is and how Wojo should have been fired minutes after accepting the job, and that the program is a shambles, I have been posting that, DEPENDING ON WHO WOJO FILLS THE SCHOLARSHIPS WITH, this could end up working out just fine.
The very same people have been bitching non-stop about how unathletic the team is compared to the teams that advanced in the tournament...we were a step slow, etc. Guess what, the two most unathletic, slow guys on the team just bolted. Two of the more one-dimensional players (spot up shooters, iso post up players) on what has been ridiculed as a one-dimensional offensive system (chuck threes) just bolted.
IF WOJO CAN RECRUIT ATHLETIC BALL HANDLERS/SLASHERS to fill their spots, this could be totally transformative for how MU plays. It totally hinges on Wojo's ability to recruit now.
This is what I'm hoping for. As far as the Hausers go, I enjoyed watching them play for the most part, although I was amazed that Joey had zero explosiveness around the basket, was puzzled by how turnover prone they could both be in key situations, and of course loved watching them hit big shots. Couldn't care less about them now that they've made this decision.
Thank You for stating so succinctly what I am feeling!
The meat-Summiteers are all very entertaining, super-intelligent people who speak in a clear, colorful manner that I actually feel is sorely lacking in today’s PC world. That said, they seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
I would give everything I have to spend just one week attending MU during the AL years. When I got to campus, the last place I would ever expect to be loaded with amazing 70s era Marquette memorabilia was Rocky Rococo’s pizza chain, but there were about 30 giant size studio quality pics of legend like Bo Ellis, Butch Lee, Bernard Toone, Maurice Lucas, Jim Chones, Dean the Dream, Doc, and of course Coaches Al, Rick, and Hank. I was hooked immediately on all things Marquette. If the Summiteers feel we will never replicate that halcyon era, I understand. I can only marvel at the stories these guys lived.
But this is 2019, and a young guy from a legendary program is trying his best to get us back to the summit. He is doing it in an environment where every kid is a diva, ready to bolt at the first hint of adversity. If the “winner” Hauser bros couldn’t work through their concerns with their professional coaching staff and teammates, then I’m not sorry to see them go. If Al McGuire told a kid today that he’s “not all that” , as he did many times back in the day, he would be gone in an instant. Apparently, Wojo channeled AL and didn’t cow-tow to a Wisconsin family, and now the ‘70s summiteers are ironically crying foul.
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Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but, at this point we have zero idea why Sam and Joey left. It could be about Markus or Wojo? It could be about basketball or off court personal issues. It could be all kinds of things.
All we know is those two left and it is important to add key players for next season as well as to keep developing the current players, as well as recruit at a high level. This is top priority
Less of a priority.....I am of course interested as to why they left. I would like to know. But there is no point in guessing.
Wojo this Wojo that. If he wins he wins, if he doesn’t he won’t be around simple as that. High pressure on him next year for results, as well as the next few years. And that is fair. This is with any type of roster.
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Still
There are guys drooling over Elliott and has not done a thing yet. If he can make major improvements, how come Joey could not? I would bet on Joey getting better over Cain or Elliott.
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I have a question. I’ve always been a Wojo backer, but it’s impossible not to wonder if he’s asleep at the wheel.
My question, however, is if this was a Wojo issue for the Hausers, why did they wait to announce they were transferring until after Markus said he was coming back? Doesn’t that suggest they’d still be at Marquette (with Wojo) if Howard wasn’t?
And do the Hausers understand they’ve forever tarnished whatever legacy Howard will have as the all time leading scorer?
I do understand that it’s the coach’s responsibility to rein players in, but I gotta say I believe this is more a Howard issue than a Wojo issue. Even fans on this message board have been screaming about it all year and we don’t work 365 days a year to make ourselves better basketball players. I don’t blame the Hausers for transferring away from Howard. I wouldn’t even want to wait to play a Rec League game with him.
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I have a question. I’ve always been a Wojo backer, but it’s impossible not to wonder if he’s asleep at the wheel.
My question, however, is if this was a Wojo issue for the Hausers, why did they wait to announce they were transferring until after Markus said he was coming back? Doesn’t that suggest they’d still be at Marquette (with Wojo) if Howard wasn’t?
And do the Hausers understand they’ve forever tarnished whatever legacy Howard will have as the all time leading scorer?
I do understand that it’s the coach’s responsibility to rein players in, but I gotta say I believe this is more a Howard issue than a Wojo issue. Even fans on this message board have been screaming about it all year and we don’t work 365 days a year to make ourselves better basketball players. I don’t blame the Hausers for transferring away from Howard. I wouldn’t even want to wait to play a Rec League game with him.
In a rec league there is presumably no coach getting paid millions of dollars to ensure that you and your rec league buddies play as a team, which requires a measure of sacrifice.
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Still
There are guys drooling over Elliott and has not done a thing yet. If he can make major improvements, how come Joey could not? I would bet on Joey getting better over Cain or Elliott.
Again, we agree. As I said, I am in an apparent minority that thinks Joey might end up even better than Sam. Still, I think it's likely he would have seen his minutes decrease next year. This is in no way, shape or form intended to diminish Joey. I think Marquette was going to have an improved team next year, with some additional options. I don't think it's remotely controversial or surprising to think that Joey might have experienced a reduction in minutes in light of this. I'm honestly a little confused why you are so determined to resist what seems to me -- a big Joey Hauser fan -- pretty obvious.
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Again, we agree. As I said, I am in an apparent minority that thinks Joey might end up even better than Sam. Still, I think it's likely he would have seen his minutes decrease next year. This is in no way, shape or form intended to diminish Joey. I think Marquette was going to have an improved team next year, with some additional options. I don't think it's remotely controversial or surprising to think that Joey might have experienced a reduction in minutes in light of this. I'm honestly a little confused why you are so determined to resist what seems to me -- a big Joey Hauser fan -- pretty obvious.
I have noticed this too. There are some people on here comparing a first year player with a 3rd year player. Yet many times, not always, the biggest jump in level happens between year 1 and 2. Sam was obviously better but he was also in his 3rd season. Not really able to compare until after Joey’s 3rd season. Can only compare their first seasons at this point. I do expect a jump in level for Greg and Brendan. It didn’t happen for Cain in that 1-2 time range. Maybe it can happen for him for next year. We’ll see.
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I have a question. I’ve always been a Wojo backer, but it’s impossible not to wonder if he’s asleep at the wheel.
My question, however, is if this was a Wojo issue for the Hausers, why did they wait to announce they were transferring until after Markus said he was coming back? Doesn’t that suggest they’d still be at Marquette (with Wojo) if Howard wasn’t?
And do the Hausers understand they’ve forever tarnished whatever legacy Howard will have as the all time leading scorer?
I do understand that it’s the coach’s responsibility to rein players in, but I gotta say I believe this is more a Howard issue than a Wojo issue. Even fans on this message board have been screaming about it all year and we don’t work 365 days a year to make ourselves better basketball players. I don’t blame the Hausers for transferring away from Howard. I wouldn’t even want to wait to play a Rec League game with him.
This is just a guess, and it may be a stupid guess...but I bet when Wojo recruited these guys, he knew they would “get theirs” in our program, but just maybe he thought they would enjoy the open looks they do get courtesy of a stud All-American, who, by the way, also seriously padded the Hausers’ rebounding numbers by drawing multiple defenders into awkward positions. Yes, no question some of his own shots were ridiculously hoisted.
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I don't understand Sams thinking at all, is he his brothers keeper? He would have had the spotlight on him in his senior year and maybe been drafted!
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Still
We are in agreement. My only point, it is impossible to judge PT six months out. Joey could have come back a beast and been best player. If I were Wojo, I would not be selling less or more PT to any player at this point. You are correct, Joey might have ended up with less minutes, but would not have bet on current guys taking any away from him.
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Still
We are in agreement. My only point, it is impossible to judge PT six months out. Joey could have come back a beast and been best player. If I were Wojo, I would not be selling less or more PT to any player at this point. You are correct, Joey might have ended up with less minutes, but would not have bet on current guys taking any away from him.
So very true. If Joey shot 50% from the 3 point line next year he'd have all the minutes he could handle. I doubt any decent coach would guarantee less minutes unless they were running off a player.
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From the 247 board:
“ghostBehind 2421
63 minutes ago
The record needs to be set straight as there is a fair amount of slander going around with the current situation. Please, please, please no one take out their frustrations on Markus or the Hauser’s.
Markus has a way that he likes to play and he believes that style will get him to the next level. It’s not directly on him to change to make his teammates happy.
The Hauser’s have a right to be frustrated with the lack of looks in the offense and shouldn’t be looked down upon because they’re leaving for greener pastures.
It’s human nature to selfishly take care of yourself/family first. However it’s on the coach and coaching staff to manage the egos and quell frustrations, especially with a roster as talented and potent as we would have been next year.
This situation rests squarely on the shoulders of the head coach for repeated negligence on managing the personalities on his team and refusing to cope with very vocal frustrations throughout the past year.
Some animosity began when Markus was allowed to go back home over the summer to work out with his family while everyone else was required to stay on campus. A lot of players were frustrated with this and rightfully so. Sure, Markus’ dad is a trainer, but if you’re building a team, why allow a key member of your team to leave everyone else during a crucial team building period to live at home, away from the rules/restrictions everyone else must abide by.
Frustrations grew significantly when Markus was dominating the ball down the losing stretch and Wojo refused to rest him or adjust to allow a more team oriented approach. Because many on the team felt it was the only option to get through to Wojo, a letter was written to him, initiated by the Hauser’s and cosigned by other members on the team, but it still fell on deaf ears.
There was a one sided conversation following the season and it ended with the Hauser’s saying thanks and we’re leaving.
This situation rests squarely on the shoulders of Wojo not being able to manage his team over the past year.”
If any of this is true regarding his handling of Markus, it further confirms to me Wojo needs to go.
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It always bugged me that they let him go home when the guys were going through workouts here.
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There was a one sided conversation following the season and it ended with the Hauser’s saying thanks and we’re leaving.
This story leaves out the ultimatum Dad and sons gave Wojo that led to the one sided conversation.
If any of THAT is true, Wojo absolutely handled it the correct way and should be commended.
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This story leaves out the ultimatum Dad and sons gave Wojo that led to the one sided conversation.
If any of THAT is true, Wojo absolutely handled it the correct way and should be commended.
Agree 100%
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This story leaves out the ultimatum Dad and sons gave Wojo that led to the one sided conversation.
If any of THAT is true, Wojo absolutely handled it the correct way and should be commended.
But doesn’t really address the larger point that his preferential treatment of Markus, whether real or perceived, was not managed well.
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This story leaves out the ultimatum Dad and sons gave Wojo that led to the one sided conversation.
If any of THAT is true, Wojo absolutely handled it the correct way and should be commended.
It’s Wojo’s fault that it got to the point of an ultimatum being issued.
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From the 247 board:
“ghostBehind 2421
63 minutes ago
The record needs to be set straight as there is a fair amount of slander going around with the current situation. Please, please, please no one take out their frustrations on Markus or the Hauser’s.
Markus has a way that he likes to play and he believes that style will get him to the next level. It’s not directly on him to change to make his teammates happy.
The Hauser’s have a right to be frustrated with the lack of looks in the offense and shouldn’t be looked down upon because they’re leaving for greener pastures.
It’s human nature to selfishly take care of yourself/family first. However it’s on the coach and coaching staff to manage the egos and quell frustrations, especially with a roster as talented and potent as we would have been next year.
This situation rests squarely on the shoulders of the head coach for repeated negligence on managing the personalities on his team and refusing to cope with very vocal frustrations throughout the past year.
Some animosity began when Markus was allowed to go back home over the summer to work out with his family while everyone else was required to stay on campus. A lot of players were frustrated with this and rightfully so. Sure, Markus’ dad is a trainer, but if you’re building a team, why allow a key member of your team to leave everyone else during a crucial team building period to live at home, away from the rules/restrictions everyone else must abide by.
Frustrations grew significantly when Markus was dominating the ball down the losing stretch and Wojo refused to rest him or adjust to allow a more team oriented approach. Because many on the team felt it was the only option to get through to Wojo, a letter was written to him, initiated by the Hauser’s and cosigned by other members on the team, but it still fell on deaf ears.
There was a one sided conversation following the season and it ended with the Hauser’s saying thanks and we’re leaving.
This situation rests squarely on the shoulders of Wojo not being able to manage his team over the past year.”
If any of this is true regarding his handling of Markus, it further confirms to me Wojo needs to go.
(https://i.imgur.com/wEYEQMF.gif)
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This story leaves out the ultimatum Dad and sons gave Wojo that led to the one sided conversation.
If any of THAT is true, Wojo absolutely handled it the correct way and should be commended.
Care to explain further?
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Picture from the banquet
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I have a question. I’ve always been a Wojo backer, but it’s impossible not to wonder if he’s asleep at the wheel.
My question, however, is if this was a Wojo issue for the Hausers, why did they wait to announce they were transferring until after Markus said he was coming back? Doesn’t that suggest they’d still be at Marquette (with Wojo) if Howard wasn’t?
And do the Hausers understand they’ve forever tarnished whatever legacy Howard will have as the all time leading scorer?
I do understand that it’s the coach’s responsibility to rein players in, but I gotta say I believe this is more a Howard issue than a Wojo issue. Even fans on this message board have been screaming about it all year and we don’t work 365 days a year to make ourselves better basketball players. I don’t blame the Hausers for transferring away from Howard. I wouldn’t even want to wait to play a Rec League game with him.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute PR...I had a theory today...supposedly this has been known about for awhile, at least before the banquet...Markus had several weeks after the season ended to announce his intentions. I would argue he knew awhile ago he would be back. So using the theory that he also knew that Sam and Joey wouldn't be back, he waited...waited to see if maybe there was a chance they would change their minds, and if they did, maybe he decided then he'd go pro. When they didn't change their minds, he announced it when he did, knowing bad news was coming soon, and this way he looks like the good guy. Not saying that's bad at all. I think it was smart.
Also, Purdue played all year and made an Elite 8 with a more shot dominant Guard than Markus was and one who also had a lower assist rate than did Markus..yet, you never once had any problems from Purdue coming out of the woodwork. Point being, Matt Painter made it work for Purdue, why the hell could Wojo not make it work for MU?? That's the question..
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It always bugged me that they let him go home when the guys were going through workouts here.
Markus also went down to freakin’ Costa Rica to build a basketball court in 100 degree heat to give back, in addition to sitting on that NCAA committee, in addition to likely doing 5times the interview/media requests of his teammates in addition to single handedly putting the Marquette brand front and SportsCenter almost every game day.
Plus, the work he had done in the past with his family training led to pretty good results. I’m sure Wojo weighed everything and felt it was in the team’s interest and Markus’s to let him go.
For Chrissakes, the young man gives, gives, gives to the point of smartly seeking outside therapy to maintain balance and then comes forward with his quest for mental balance in another selfless act to help others, all the while representing MU in just about the manner of a saint, and this is his Thanks?
The Hauser kids are the ones who quit, QUIT on their teammates and coaches. Remember that.
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Markus also went down to freakin’ Costa Rica to build a basketball court in 100 degree heat to give back, in addition to sitting on that NCAA committee, in addition to likely doing 5times the interview/media requests of his teammates in addition to single handedly putting the Marquette brand front and SportsCenter almost every game day.
Plus, the work he had done in the past with his family training led to pretty good results. I’m sure Wojo weighed everything and felt it was in the team’s interest and Markus’s to let him go.
For Chrissakes, the young man gives, gives, gives to the point of smartly seeking outside therapy to maintain balance and then comes forward with his quest for mental balance in another selfless act to help others, all the while representing MU in just about the manner of a saint, and this is his Thanks?
The Hauser kids are the ones who quit, QUIT on their teammates and coaches. Remember that.
Sir, this is an Arby's.
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I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute PR...I had a theory today...supposedly this has been known about for awhile, at least before the banquet...Markus had several weeks after the season ended to announce his intentions. I would argue he knew awhile ago he would be back. So using the theory that he also knew that Sam and Joey wouldn't be back, he waited...waited to see if maybe there was a chance they would change their minds, and if they did, maybe he decided then he'd go pro. When they didn't change their minds, he announced it when he did, knowing bad news was coming soon, and this way he looks like the good guy. Not saying that's bad at all. I think it was smart.
Also, Purdue played all year and made an Elite 8 with a more shot dominant Guard than Markus was and one who also had a lower assist rate than did Markus..yet, you never once had any problems from Purdue coming out of the woodwork. Point being, Matt Painter made it work for Purdue, why the hell could Wojo not make it work for MU?? That's the question..
How do you know Painter would have made it work if the Hausers were on Purdue or if he was the MU coach? You don't.
I'm not absolving Wojo of blame but you can't just compare the two situations.
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This was supposed to be a breakfast club letter gif
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I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute PR...I had a theory today...supposedly this has been known about for awhile, at least before the banquet...Markus had several weeks after the season ended to announce his intentions. I would argue he knew awhile ago he would be back. So using the theory that he also knew that Sam and Joey wouldn't be back, he waited...waited to see if maybe there was a chance they would change their minds, and if they did, maybe he decided then he'd go pro. When they didn't change their minds, he announced it when he did, knowing bad news was coming soon, and this way he looks like the good guy. Not saying that's bad at all. I think it was smart.
Scary Guru. I also thought of a very similar theory.
Markus realizes the rift with the Hausers is beyond repair. Markus tells the team he's going pro, thinking at least the Hausers stay and the team will still be strong next year, as Markus moves onto his next chapter in life.
But when Markus learns the Hausers are going to leave anyway, he changes his mind and returns. "Dear Marquette, I'm back." Isn't that unusually short? It definitely stood out to me in a "Well that's different" sort of way.
But like I said, it's just a theory.
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Scary Guru. I also thought of a very similar theory.
Markus realizes the rift with the Hausers is beyond repair. Markus tells the team he's going pro, thinking at least the Hausers stay and the team will still be strong next year, as Markus moves onto his next chapter in life.
But when Markus learns the Hausers are going to leave anyway, he changes his mind and returns. "Dear Marquette, I'm back." Isn't that unusually short? It definitely stood out to me in a "Well that's different" sort of way.
But like I said, it's just a theory.
You expounded on it more than I..but that's EXACTLY what i was thinking..he thinks..okay if Sam and Joey want to come back..i will go pro because they will still be very good..but if they are in fact leaving , then I will comeback so this whole thing doesn't blow up and they lose all three of us. IF our theory is right..that's quite the selfless act if you ask me..in other words he did it for the good of the program, rather than himself.
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Sir, this is an Arby's.
I need to start using this more.
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This story leaves out the ultimatum Dad and sons gave Wojo that led to the one sided conversation.
If any of THAT is true, Wojo absolutely handled it the correct way and should be commended.
"I'm going to say something vague and unverified, and then use that as confirmation bias".
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You expounded on it more than I..but that's EXACTLY what i was thinking..he thinks..okay if Sam and Joey want to come back..i will go pro because they will still be very good..but if they are in fact leaving , then I will comeback so this whole thing doesn't blow up and they lose all three of us. IF our theory is right..that's quite the selfless act if you ask me..in other words he did it for the good of the program, rather than himself.
So Markus is going pro not because he thinks it in his best interest, but leaves for college team unity. Then when he finds out that his leaving for the NBA won't matter he decides that he is going to stay in college and put off his life long dream. I truly understand nothing.
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In the absence of facts, there's a lot of blind speculation, innuendo and with it "fan" imposed additional damage to the program. What's best right now for the school and the team is to let things play out. Judging from the postings I've seen I doubt a percentage of Marquette followers will allow that to happen without a continuing chorus of negativity. The consequences of starting from ground zone don't make sense. As a diehard supporter, I'm willing to withhold judgment until more facts are available and see how things work on the court. No necktie party talk for me. As the coming season plays out we’ll see how the coaching staff and players deal with this adversity.
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Also, Purdue played all year and made an Elite 8 with a more shot dominant Guard than Markus was and one who also had a lower assist rate than did Markus..yet, you never once had any problems from Purdue coming out of the woodwork. Point being, Matt Painter made it work for Purdue, why the hell could Wojo not make it work for MU?? That's the question..
I'd like to address the Purdue statement as well. A high usage offense is a "risky" approach to basketball. It's similar to other "risky" approaches such as three dominant offenses or reduced pace offenses. The key to the "risk" is that these approaches have more variance than traditional offenses. In other words, the highs are higher and the lows are lower. A high usage offense is similar to over-weighting a stock portfolio with one particular stock. When it's working, boy is it great. But when it doesn't... you finish the season 1-6 while choking away a Big East Championship.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a risky approach to game planning. However, good teams shouldn't take risky approaches. High variance results are bad when you are better than pretty much every team. If you have a team that is good, then you really want to minimize the variance of results.
This is why Dick Bennett's teams were always great for upsets when he was at UW-GB. Slow down the number of possessions in a game, and upsets are a plenty. This is why I wasn't surprised that Virginia, of all teams, was the first one to get upset by a 16 seed. Less possessions mean that lucky shots by opponents matter more.
Can a team be successful with a high usage player? Yes. Kemba Walker/UConn and Russ Smith/Louisville both won national championships. However, if you look at the list of top 20 high usage players, most of them are on teams that aren't very good. That's because bad teams need to use high risk strategies.
High usage worked for Purdue this year. It worked for Marquette too, until it DIDN'T WORK AT ALL. Risky.
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I'd like to address the Purdue statement as well. A high usage offense is a "risky" approach to basketball. It's similar to other "risky" approaches such as three dominant offenses or reduced pace offenses. The key to the "risk" is that these approaches have more variance than traditional offenses. In other words, the highs are higher and the lows are lower. A high usage offense is similar to over-weighting a stock portfolio with one particular stock. When it's working, boy is it great. But when it doesn't... you finish the season 1-6 while choking away a Big East Championship.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a risky approach to game planning. However, good teams shouldn't take risky approaches. High variance results are bad when you are better than pretty much every team. If you have a team that is good, then you really want to minimize the variance of results.
This is why Dick Bennett's teams were always great for upsets when he was at UW-GB. Slow down the number of possessions in a game, and upsets are a plenty. This is why I wasn't surprised that Virginia, of all teams, was the first one to get upset by a 16 seed. Less possessions mean that lucky shots by opponents matter more.
Can a team be successful with a high usage player? Yes. Kemba Walker/UConn and Russ Smith/Louisville both won national championships. However, if you look at the list of top 20 high usage players, most of them are on teams that aren't very good. That's because bad teams need to use high risk strategies.
High usage worked for Purdue this year. It worked for Marquette too, until it DIDN'T WORK AT ALL. Risky.
Interesting post. Nice to have you back posting Sugar.
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Interesting post. Nice to have you back posting Sugar.
+1
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This is actually inaccurate. As of 48 (or 72) hours ago we THOUGHT we had 5 starters returning but that was never the case. We either had 4 (if Markus left) or 3 (if Markus stayed).
Lenny
You are correct. The Hausers were gone in March.
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For the people wondering about minutes.
Markus badly needed to lose minutes. Just from a health standpoint. With the added guard depth next year. He needed to lose about 5mpg. Anim would have lost a lot of minutes as well, maybe 7. Sam also could have been rolled back about 2-3 minutes per game. All of these minutes were not coming from Joey. Sure he would lose 3-5 per game as well. Thats about it. With the guys in the front court and Heldt being gone, who do you think plays the 5 if Both Theo and Ed are in foul trouble again.... Joey...
Well he would have anyway.
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In the absence of facts, there's a lot of blind speculation, innuendo and with it "fan" imposed additional damage to the program. What's best right now for the school and the team is to let things play out. Judging from the postings I've seen I doubt a percentage of Marquette followers will allow that to happen without a continuing chorus of negativity. The consequences of starting from ground zone don't make sense. As a diehard supporter, I'm willing to withhold judgment until more facts are available and see how things work on the court. No necktie party talk for me. As the coming season plays out we’ll see how the coaching staff and players deal with this adversity.
I stopped reading this after you put fan in quotes as if your somehow morally superior. GTFO with that sh*t.
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You expounded on it more than I..but that's EXACTLY what i was thinking..he thinks..okay if Sam and Joey want to come back..i will go pro because they will still be very good..but if they are in fact leaving , then I will comeback so this whole thing doesn't blow up and they lose all three of us. IF our theory is right..that's quite the selfless act if you ask me..in other words he did it for the good of the program, rather than himself.
This is up there for the most incredible mental gymnastics I've ever seen on this website. You are the Aly Raisman of Scoop!
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For the people wondering about minutes.
Markus badly needed to lose minutes. Just from a health standpoint. With the added guard depth next year. He needed to lose about 5mpg. Anim would have lost a lot of minutes as well, maybe 7. Sam also could have been rolled back about 2-3 minutes per game. All of these minutes were not coming from Joey. Sure he would lose 3-5 per game as well. Thats about it. With the guys in the front court and Heldt being gone, who do you think plays the 5 if Both Theo and Ed are in foul trouble again.... Joey...
Well he would have anyway.
This is true and admittedly not factored into my previous posts on this point.
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You expounded on it more than I..but that's EXACTLY what i was thinking..he thinks..okay if Sam and Joey want to come back..i will go pro because they will still be very good..but if they are in fact leaving , then I will comeback so this whole thing doesn't blow up and they lose all three of us. IF our theory is right..that's quite the selfless act if you ask me..in other words he did it for the good of the program, rather than himself.
That sounds really nice. I say this in all sincerity: as Markus makes his way through life and makes major life decisions, I hope he focuses on doing what is right for Markus. While I personally believe that Markus made a good decision (and as a fan, I am happy), I really hope he didn't make this decision by moving from "the team will be fine without me" to "the team needs me." I hope he made this decision (and makes other major life decisions) by figuring out what is right for him. By all accounts he's a great kid and he deserves that.
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Interesting post. Nice to have you back posting Sugar.
Aw shucks. Thanks.
Just to elaborate on this further, the high usage approach by Marquette allowed MU to get to a top 10 ranking. And then the bottom fell out, because it's highly variable. (When does a high usage approach make sense? when you are an underdog)
Good teams rarely go high usage, and yet Wojo took this approach in 2019. Furthermore, he doubled down on it even after Howard got injured. Wojo was inflexible with his strategy despite evidence it was no longer working. I am not on the side of Wojo here, because the high usage strategy was poor coaching. I completely understand the frustration of the Hausers.
Furthermore, this is the second season in a row where there's been systemic inflexibility by Wojo. Just last year, he continued to roll out both Rowsey and Howard together the majority of the time. Marquette had the #182 defense last year. This is despite the fact that there was plenty of evidence to show that a lineup of either of them playing individually was a stronger team than the two of them together.
In the last two seasons, Wojo has been inflexible with his strategy to the detriment of Marquette, and we have data to support that position.
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So a few years back, I did a bunch of analysis on the factors that most correlate with successful players in the NBA. Pudner and I even talked with a few teams. Note that this is "success in the NBA" and not "get drafted". There are four areas that align with success.
ORtg (or Value Add), Defensive Rebounding, Steal Rate, and Usage.
Here's the thing. Usage was negatively correlated with success in the NBA. In other words, players that had a high usage rate were more likely to be unsuccessful.
Not only is the high usage approach bad for Marquette, it's bad for Howard's future as well.