Oops

[dinger]

Not trying to discount the loss, but why does everyone think this is such a TERRIBLE loss. Providence has pretty much had the same guys for at least the last year or two and have played us pretty close each time with the exception of maybe at Providence last year. We lost more than they did from last years team. They did have a bad non-con, but it’s naive to think they aren’t comparable to the other 9 big east teams.

It was a Quad 3 loss (as of today), and according to some analytics sites the easiest conference game to win from a percentages standpoint

Edited - Quad 3 as of today

[dinger]

Duplicate - my bad

[WhoaJoe2020]

Let’s be real.

The storyline “Marquette lost at home to not very good (lousy?) Providence team is 100% accurate.

If we had squeaked by the storyline “Marquette squeaks by not very good (lousy?) Providence at home would be 100% accurate, also.

Reason? Last night Marquette played not very good (lousy?) Providence at home.

Why do you have problems with things that are obviously true?

I was commenting specifically about the micro focus on the three at the end of regulation.

I have no problem acknowledging that Marquette lost to a more physical, 9-6 PC team that played their asses off. Kudos to them.

What I do have a problem with, is those who attempt to distill an entire game into one play and then assign blame for the loss to one person.

Misses at the rim, missed free throws, sloppy passes at times, and Markus not getting some calls on offense.
Exploited mismatches, poor boxing out and  rebounding, and perhaps not fouling before the three at the end of regulation on defense.
All were factors in the loss and many of them were far more significant than a debatable intentional foul.

Marquette won as a team against VU and lost as a team against Cu and PC.
Credit and criticism should be shared with everyone in both cases.

I don't have a problem with that.

[CountryRoads]

Because, MU lost the game - Providence didn't win it.  There were a lot of coaching mistakes in the game that turned a sure W into an L.

There were coaching mistakes for sure, but MU has been pretty solid under Wojo in close games during his tenure. 31-18 in games decided by 5 or less and 10-3 in OT (2 of the losses in that garbage first year and one last night). Had MU pulled it out, Wojo switching to zone in the last possession would have been seen as a big improvement in his in-game coaching as it completely fooled providence and they immediately turned it over.

The problem with Wojo is the piss poor game plans (especially in the biggest games of the year) and the beat downs that soon follow them. That has happened way too frequently.  However, if MU is able to stay in the game, Wojo has proven to be decent at closing games out.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

The problem with Wojo is the piss poor game plans (especially in the biggest games of the year) and the beat downs that soon follow them. That has happened way too frequently.  However, if MU is able to stay in the game, Wojo has proven to be decent at closing games out.

And that's why he's not a good coach...

It's one thing to lose by having bad shooting night but if you play playground ball for over half of the possessions then you deserve to lose and be fired.  As I've preached before and will continue to...... good coaches implement systems and they're executed out on the floor.

[Elonsmusk]

First, the Positive:
- Markus was excellent and did everything he possibly could
- Bailey was also solid.  His defense was very good and he was a confident contributor on offense
- Ed got pulled for trying a 15 footer and the team got to finish the game without his bad hands, turnstile defense and turnovers (yes, that's a positive)
- Jayce showed some real hustle and some great work on the boards

Then the negative:
- Wojo was totally out-coached.  Cooley had the (obvious) strategy to win and Wojo had nothing to counter it.  The strategy is not too complex.  Pressure Markus, abuse Markus to the greatest extent that the refs will allow.  Use about 15 fouls on him.  Wojo needs to come up with a way to win when this happens.
- Bench and supporting cast really didn't show up
- Theo
- The timeout (bad coaching)
- Not fouling (bad coaching)
- No rebound on BB's missed FT (bad coaching)
- No respect from the referees.  (bad coaching) Especially when Markus was getting abused the way he was.  There were several plays where he was fouled 2 or 3 times with no call. 

MU has superior talent to PC, the leading scorer in the NCAA, good size, good length, and a deeper bench.  When this combination loses the way MU did, it's on the coaches. 

I'm not saying Fire Wojo.  I'm saying he needs to be accountable for losses and needs to do more to put the players in a position to win.

Seton Hall is next, and they will do what PC did, but even better.  Wojo needs to figure out how to win with pressure on Markus.

Add bolded to bad coaching.  Wojo needs to stop yanking guys for "mistakes" such as missing a wide open 15' shot.  It was a FT.  Ed shoots 65% from FT line.  Not a bad shot.  We wonder why the player development under Wojo has been suspect, as have the levels of transfers out of program. 

This type of "coaching" is a confidence killer and frustrating AF.  Cain's psyche is fragile as can be too - he's butterfingers out there.  Cain is a coordinated athlete, and to struggle so much handling the ball tells me he's nervous AF stemming from lack of confidence.  Getting yanked for those kinds of "mistakes" certainly doesn't help to eliminate them, it does the exact opposite - exacerbates them.

[ATL MU Warrior]

And that's why he's not a good coach...

It's one thing to lose by having bad shooting night but if you play playground ball for over half of the possessions then you deserve to lose and be fired.  As I've preached before and will continue to...... good coaches implement systems and they're executed out on the floor.

Do you consider Ed Coley a good coach?  What is the system he has implemented?

[WhoaJoe2020]

There were coaching mistakes for sure, but MU has been pretty solid under Wojo in close games during his tenure. 31-18 in games decided by 5 or less and 10-3 in OT (2 of the losses in that garbage first year and one last night). Had MU pulled it out, Wojo switching to zone in the last possession would have been seen as a big improvement in his in-game coaching as it completely fooled providence and they immediately turned it over.

The problem with Wojo is the piss poor game plans (especially in the biggest games of the year) and the beat downs that soon follow them. That has happened way too frequently.  However, if MU is able to stay in the game, Wojo has proven to be decent at closing games out.

Look at you providing historical facts to support your position while undercutting others.

[WhiteTrash]

Sorry, this one was on the players right from the start.  One can quibble about some items, but it rae
ly came down to execution.

Embarrassing post that I hope our players and recruits don't read.

Grow up. There is a guy who makes $2MM+ per year to get and prepare players for the Marquette team. That person deserves your angst, not the 19-22 year olds.

[rocky_warrior]

Embarrassing post that I hope our players and recruits don't read.

Grow up. There is a guy who makes $2MM+ per year to get and prepare players for the Marquette team. That person deserves your angst, not the 19-22 year olds.

1) Of all the crap on here, this is what you find embarrassing??

2) Right, I'm sure the recruits that committed to our coach, or thinking about committing would much rather read our fans trashing the coach and saying he should be fired. That's gotta be super encouraging!

[WhiteTrash]

1) Of all the crap on here, this is what you find embarrassing??

2) Right, I'm sure the recruits that committed to our coach, or thinking about committing would much rather read our fans trashing the coach and saying he should be fired. That's gotta be super encouraging!

1) Of the major point of my post you focus on the first sentence and not the actual subject?

2) I do think recruits would find it mature and civil of our fans to voice problems with the coach rather than the players.

3) Who said ANYTHING about Wojo being fired? You need to skip the last beer of the night, read what I wrote and disagree with the actual content of my post.

[rocky_warrior]

1) Of the major point of my post you focus on the first sentence and not the actual subject?

The major point is that Wojo deserves blame.  And that you think any criticism of the players, or their play is embarrassing?  Did I not interpret that correctly?  I think plenty of the criticism of Wojo has been embarrassing, and that it's ok to discuss how ____ player had a bad game.

2) I do think recruits would find it mature and civil of our fans to voice problems with the coach rather than the players.

I think student athletes are probably their own worst critics.  They don't need our criticism, they don't need our opinions, and they don't need our criticism of their teammates and coaches either.  But we provide all of that.

3) Who said ANYTHING about Wojo being fired? You need to skip the last beer of the night, read what I wrote and disagree with the actual content of my post.

Wow.  Ok St. WhiteTrash.  I think I just did.  Oh, and Who said ANYTHING about Wojo being fired?  See a few posts above yours.  Have you not been reading anything here the past week???

And that's why he's not a good coach...

It's one thing to lose by having bad shooting night but if you play playground ball for over half of the possessions then you deserve to lose and be fired. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Add bolded to bad coaching.  Wojo needs to stop yanking guys for "mistakes" such as missing a wide open 15' shot.  It was a FT.  Ed shoots 65% from FT line.  Not a bad shot. 

You've seen Ed shoot, right?  EVERY shot that isn't a layup from Ed is a bad shot.

The off-season nonsense that Ed could play the 4 either offensively or defensively is proven to be just that, nonsense.  Ed shouldn't be taking shots like that except in the most dire of circumstances (shot clock expiration, end of half/game), and certainly not early in the shot clock.

[ATL MU Warrior]

m'

You've seen Ed shoot, right?  EVERY shot that isn't a layup from Ed is a bad shot.

The off-season nonsense that Ed could play the 4 either offensively or defensively is proven to be just that, nonsense.  Ed shouldn't be taking shots like that except in the most dire of circumstances (shot clock expiration, end of half/game), and certainly not early in the shot clock.

Not to mention he couldn’t guard anybody in that game or box anybody out.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Add bolded to bad coaching.  Wojo needs to stop yanking guys for "mistakes" such as missing a wide open 15' shot.  It was a FT.  Ed shoots 65% from FT line.  Not a bad shot.  We wonder why the player development under Wojo has been suspect, as have the levels of transfers out of program. 

This type of "coaching" is a confidence killer and frustrating AF.  Cain's psyche is fragile as can be too - he's butterfingers out there.  Cain is a coordinated athlete, and to struggle so much handling the ball tells me he's nervous AF stemming from lack of confidence.  Getting yanked for those kinds of "mistakes" certainly doesn't help to eliminate them, it does the exact opposite - exacerbates them.

Ed’s shot wasn’t a bad one but he was playing pretty poorly.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ed’s shot wasn’t a bad one but he was playing pretty poorly.

I'm sure some of the board's stat gurus can find this, but I'd like to see what Ed's FG% is on shots beyond 5 feet and what it is beyond 10 feet. I'm fairly confident it quickly goes to 0% past there.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It was a wide open shot in rhythm at the free throw line.  No problem at all with that. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

It was a wide open shot in rhythm at the free throw line.  No problem at all with that.

Plus, I think the shot clock was at 5.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It was a wide open shot in rhythm at the free throw line.  No problem at all with that.

I don’t recall Ed ever making a shot from beyond 5 feet, but if the stats show that he has been effective on any sort of jump shot I will concede.

[Elonsmusk]

You've seen Ed shoot, right?  EVERY shot that isn't a layup from Ed is a bad shot.

The off-season nonsense that Ed could play the 4 either offensively or defensively is proven to be just that, nonsense.  Ed shouldn't be taking shots like that except in the most dire of circumstances (shot clock expiration, end of half/game), and certainly not early in the shot clock.

I understand your point, yet Ed's shooting form, and how he shoots it from the FT line, look pretty good to me.  He's a D-1 player, on scholarship - I just don't think you bench a kid for shooting that shot - particularly not when you have a teammate (albeit super talented), who can launch 25-foot, step back 3-point shots, just 5 seconds into a possession.

My frustration with Wojo's coaching approach is that unless you are one of the Top 3 players, he'd be a hard guy to play for.  The leash gets quite short, roles are inconsistent, and you just don't know day to day, game to game, what your role will be.  Most people don't function well in uncertainty and inconsistency.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Ed’s shot wasn’t a bad one but he was playing pretty poorly.

Agreed it wasn't a bad shot and I don't think that's why he was pulled. I would love to see his season +/-, I think Paint Touches had a running tally at some point this year. Just seems to turn it over on routine plays, stop the ball for a low% shot regardless of circumstance, or get backed down in the post for an easy 2 by a bigger center with consistency. Could be the eye test lying to me though.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I don’t recall Ed ever making a shot from beyond 5 feet, but if the stats show that he has been effective on any sort of jump shot I will concede.

I linked last season as he hasn’t made any this season.  Scroll down and they segment twos by range per the play by play stats to provide a bigger sample size.

http://barttorvik.com/team.php?year=2019&team=Marquette

[Elonsmusk]

I linked last season as he hasn’t made any this season.  Scroll down and they segment twos by range per the play by play stats to provide a bigger sample size.

http://barttorvik.com/team.php?year=2019&team=Marquette

Great info.  Well..he is 0-9 this year in "long 2's," and only 27% last year..so not very good.  But, still don't think it helps a player's confidence getting yanked for essentially missing a wide open shot at FT line.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Great info.  Well..he is 0-9 this year in "long 2's," and only 27% last year..so not very good.  But, still don't think it helps a player's confidence getting yanked for essentially missing a wide open shot at FT line.

Well we don't know why he was pulled.  Ed's a fifth year senior.  He's a big boy.

[21Jumpstreet]

combo of bad in game coaching and having a team (aside from one player) full of mid major level talent.   

The fact that bailey is possibly our second best player is highly concerning.

So, does this make Wojo an excellent coach who gets top 10 wins out of mid-major level talent in the toughest conference in basketball?