Protests

[forgetful]

Some here have already said it, but it needs to be said again.  The police unions are a big part of this problem.  Bad cops are protected the same way bad teachers, bad pilots, bad you name it.  Unions were instrumental in building this country and preventing corporations from unduly trampling on our rights, but they have a bad side too.  People that do not belong in their positions are allowed to stay.  Any chance at reform has to start with the unions because they protect one and all, the competent and incompetent.

When was the last time you saw a teacher beat a kid to death, or crack his skull open on the concrete, and the union come in and protest his suspension? When teachers commit crimes (e.g. assault on a student) they are arrested, terminated, and thrown in jail.

Equating the two is moronic. Being a bad teacher is a subjective decision, most people are bad at their job, but are better at it than possible replacements so they are not fired.

We are not talking about a bad cop, maybe missing a crime, or snoozing on highway ticket duty, we are talking about murdering people. When they murder someone, or assault someone, they are being defended by their peers. No where near a similar aspect. It is a disingenuous statement to compare the two.

[Eldon]

Protest/March in Philly over the weekend:

https://twitter.com/BradfordPearson/status/1269337799523733504

Massive to say the absolute least.

[shoothoops]

I don't see any signs, posters or murals of Captain Dorn in the protest crowd. I guess a murdered retired black police officer is not a symbol of systemic racism; after all how could a black man become a police Captain in St. Louis of all places with all that systemic racism. In fact his murderer is still at large and the national press does not seem to care about that black life. Why has Black Lives Matter not cried out for justice in his case? Does Black Lives Matter even know who he is? If Black Lives do Matter why not his as well?

As highlighted in red: I could say the same of many of the posters in this thread. Am I right, you just said her arguments are not grounded in reality? Whose reality, yours or hers? Are her arguments any less valid than yours?

Actually a suspect was apprehended and charged in the Dorn case. The public and protestors helped close the case as well as the media, which posted security camera video of multiple people which helped lead to an arrest.

A march was held in Dorn's honor Thursday.

https://www.kmov.com/news/march-held-to-honor-police-captain-david-dorn-who-was-killed-by-looters/article_dde8548c-a6a7-11ea-8b9b-4f295af97ab2.html

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/charges-filed-in-murder-of-retired-st-louis-police-captain-david-dorn/article_3e95441e-4126-520b-9c41-fbbcbf889e6c.html

Nope, no racism at all in the St. Louis Police Department. (Teal)

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1269755811536015360?s=19

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/editorials/let-s-stop-enabling-jeff-roorda-to-spew-hateful-lies/article_1cb0d894-430a-11ea-b5a8-97a25f87f786.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/19/st-louis-prosecutor-refuses-to-accept-cases-from-police-officers-accused-of-racism

Please by all means google Luther Hall St. Louis Police.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

No, I don’t remember Anaheim and when I look up major riots in the USA since 1900 it doesn’t show up.

https://www.infoplease.com/us/history/major-race-riots-us

Ferguson riots were mostly from people coming in from St Louis.  Ferguson is also an example of a city not interested in its own direction.  12% voter turnout and the mayor ran unopposed. 

I am not blaming a party, I am saying we have the power to change things.  The GOP is a gnat in big cities. They have no voting power.  We have the control, if we are not happy then we need to make the changes.  The people that can make the changes are the voters that are eligible to vote where the policing problems are happening. Those places happen to be heavily Democratic, and we need to be the agents of change. 

Instead of you and Wadesworld and FluffyBlueMonster being so defensive, why not seek the higher ground and understand the opportunity and change agents we can become?  Whom do you expect to make the changes in our cities?  People that don’t live there?  Not going to happen.

Goal Post SHIFT!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Do you know who JK Rowling is?

Whatabout...

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Washington Monthly, a left of center magazine, provides the same wisdom.  I realize it isn’t hard core left for some of you, but most definitely core to what was the Democratic Party.

We run the cities, we run the police departments.  We allowed this.  That isn’t BS.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/06/06/democratic-mayors-and-city-councils-must-step-up-to-hold-police-accountable/

The changes start with the Democratic Party.  I cannot think of the last riots that didn’t happen in a Democratically controlled city Involving police.  Can you?

Riots?  I can think of police violence that has occurred in cities controlled by Republicans.  Why isn't their issue to fix?  The fact is that it is a systemic problem that requires a lot of people coming together to fix it.  To say "WeLl ThE DeMoCrAtS rUn BiG cItIeS tHeReFoRe ThEy HaVe To FiX iT," is simplistic nonsense that is used by people like you to shift blame from where the problem actually exits.

Oh and what's with this "we" stuff?  Why are you being so tribal?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So, since he was not killed by the cops or white cops in particular his black life does not matter. So why isn't the movement called Black Lives Matter only if your killed by cops.
That they don't care about all murder in the black community is a pretty alarming admission.

Well, according to Hards-Alum that should not be a crime punishable with imprisonment even if it was the landlords son and his friends. If you live in Minneapolis now potentially with no police who do you turn to, some community militia?

Hoo boy.

Look, the whole point of the movement is the issue of systemic racism that exists in law enforcement.  Which is frankly pretty clear.  Yes, it is tragic that Captain Dorn was murdered.  Yes it is tragic that a black person was killed in a car crash somewhere.

But that's really not the point of the movement.  And if you are only going to be outraged or upset by this stuff when you find the "perfect" victim, then you are never going to care because no one will fit that definition.

[mu03eng]

I think it's safe to say we've now overshot the Overton Window going the other way.

[MU82]

I decided to take the weekend off from the COVID board.

It definitely was "interesting" catching up this morning.

[WarriorDad]

When was the last time you saw a teacher beat a kid to death, or crack his skull open on the concrete, and the union come in and protest his suspension? When teachers commit crimes (e.g. assault on a student) they are arrested, terminated, and thrown in jail.

Equating the two is moronic. Being a bad teacher is a subjective decision, most people are bad at their job, but are better at it than possible replacements so they are not fired.

We are not talking about a bad cop, maybe missing a crime, or snoozing on highway ticket duty, we are talking about murdering people. When they murder someone, or assault someone, they are being defended by their peers. No where near a similar aspect. It is a disingenuous statement to compare the two.

I am not comparing the two jobs or actions of their jobs.  I said unions protect all, the competent and incompetent.  They are required to do so.  The good and the bad.  Bad pilot is protected as much as the good pilot.  Bad teacher.  Bad cop.    I am pro union generally, but recognize the negative aspect as well.  They can put the public safety at risk (pilots, railway, cops) and also underperform for our kids (teachers). 

It is a difficult pickle, but unions protect the good and bad workers by their very nature.

[WarriorDad]

Whatabout...

Are you aware of the Cuckoo’s Calling book she wrote?

[Pakuni]

No, I don’t remember Anaheim and when I look up major riots in the USA since 1900 it doesn’t show up.

https://www.infoplease.com/us/history/major-race-riots-us

Ferguson riots were mostly from people coming in from St Louis.  Ferguson is also an example of a city not interested in its own direction.  12% voter turnout and the mayor ran unopposed. 

Even by your admittedly low standards, this is epic goalpost shifting.
You easily could have admitted you were unaware of these things and nobody would have thought much of it. Instead you do this, and make a fool of yourself.
Reminds me of someone else who used to post here frequently.

Anyhow, go ahead and play your partisan politics on a nonpartisan issue. It's clear you have no serious thoughts on the subject.

[shoothoops]

No, I don’t remember Anaheim and when I look up major riots in the USA since 1900 it doesn’t show up.

https://www.infoplease.com/us/history/major-race-riots-us

Ferguson riots were mostly from people coming in from St Louis.  Ferguson is also an example of a city not interested in its own direction.  12% voter turnout and the mayor ran unopposed. 

I am not blaming a party, I am saying we have the power to change things.  The GOP is a gnat in big cities. They have no voting power.  We have the control, if we are not happy then we need to make the changes.  The people that can make the changes are the voters that are eligible to vote where the policing problems are happening. Those places happen to be heavily Democratic, and we need to be the agents of change. 

Instead of you and Wadesworld and FluffyBlueMonster being so defensive, why not seek the higher ground and understand the opportunity and change agents we can become?  Whom do you expect to make the changes in our cities?  People that don’t live there?  Not going to happen.

i

Say what? Ferguson is a 20k outer suburb in North St. Louis County. Ferguson is St. Louis and St. Louis is Ferguson. Much of that situation was peaceful protestors similar to what we are seeing across the country now. There was a mix of out of state and local people involved with the criminal activity component.

Similar to many places across the country, black people are stopped by police at significantly higher rates than white despite those rates not matching up with population statistics. Ever been to traffic court in pick your burb USA? It's rigged against people of color. Stopped while black, fines, etc...

According to the Dept of Justice, 88% of police is white in similar size locales across the country. It was 93% in Ferguson, even higher. If you are black, you learn at a young age about police. 75% of all police Nationally is white.

3 out of 53 police officers were black in Ferguson during the death of Mike Brown.  St. Louis County Police is the largest police force in the state of Missouri and it has full authority (if and when it wants) over Ferguson and the other 87 municipalities in Stl Counties. (none of these include St. Louis City Police which is separate) There are 58 police forces in those counties, many of which are focused on creating revenue (often from minorities) to stay afloat as opposed to protecting and serving the public.

You may have heard about the recent law suit against St. Louis County Police which made the news around the country. A police lieutenant was passed over promotion 23 times because he is gay. He was literally told to tone down being gay. A jury awarded him $20 million. (Hello taxpayer money) Later a settlement was reached for $10.25 million. The St. Louis County Police Chief "Retired" at the same time as the announcement.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/st-louis-county-reaches-10-25-million-settlement-with-wildhaber-in-discrimination-suit/article_83594da4-2e90-5fed-8580-ccdc2b95a2a8.html

About that Ferguson? They elected their first ever black mayor, Ella Jones (term limits for the previous mayor) by a 138 vote margin in a close race. Now 4 of 6 Ferguson council people are black compared to a previous minority. These things started with protests and protesting, and the Black Lives Matter movement. There was also a Department of Justice investigation. Before, Ferguson was a typical anywhere USA white flight burb where despite declining white population, increasing black population, the white people still had the police and government majorities and power.


https://www.npr.org/2020/06/03/868512501/ella-jones-elected-first-black-mayor-of-ferguson-mo

[WarriorDad]

Even by your admittedly low standards, this is epic goalpost shifting.
You easily could have admitted you were unaware of these things and nobody would have thought much of it. Instead you do this, and make a fool of yourself.
Reminds me of someone else who used to post here frequently.

Anyhow, go ahead and play your partisan politics on a nonpartisan issue. It's clear you have no serious thoughts on the subject.

You mentioned Anaheim, I see nothing about Anaheim and do not remember it and why should I if it doesn’t seem to register as anything of note.

Ferguson we all remember.  There is no goal post shifting.  You need to understand the history of Ferguson to understand what happened there.  The demographic changes from 1970 to 2010 are astonishing, but not unlike other suburbs of major cities in Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York.  You had a once almost all white city become a city with 25% whites and very little voter participation.  The old police force remained the same with nepotism and the new residents didn’t bother to vote for change. 12% voter turnout and key positions run unopposed. Sound familiar?  This is what I have been talking about.  Local action is required by local voters.  They are the agents of change.  Ferguson finally did that, and could have done it years earlier, but with 12% voter participation they were disinterested in doing so for far too long.  Why?

[jesmu84]

Don't feed the troll.

[WarriorDad]

Don't feed the troll.

Yes, we have to be in far left or far right enclaves to participate here.  We cannot have someone that sees both sides for the corrupt and good nature they have.  Let’s entrench more in the extremes.  That has worked so well.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You mentioned Anaheim, I see nothing about Anaheim and do not remember it and why should I if it doesn’t seem to register as anything of note.

Ferguson we all remember.  There is no goal post shifting.  You need to understand the history of Ferguson to understand what happened there.  The demographic changes from 1970 to 2010 are astonishing, but not unlike other suburbs of major cities in Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York.  You had a once almost all white city become a city with 25% whites and very little voter participation.  The old police force remained the same with nepotism and the new residents didn’t bother to vote for change. 12% voter turnout and key positions run unopposed. Sound familiar?  This is what I have been talking about.  Local action is required by local voters.  They are the agents of change.  Ferguson finally did that, and could have done it years earlier, but with 12% voter participation they were disinterested in doing so for far too long.  Why?

Ah first the goalpost shifting.  Now the strawman.  Cheeks is using his entire bag of tricks today.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Are you aware of the Cuckoo’s Calling book she wrote?

“All Lives Matter, not just those of one part of the population.” –ChicosBailBonds

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=48369.msg754224#msg754224

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Yes, we have to be in far left or far right enclaves to participate here.  We cannot have someone that sees both sides for the corrupt and good nature they have.  Let’s entrench more in the extremes.  That has worked so well.

“I’ll stand up and be the first to admit being an epic hypocrite on this over the years.  100%.  OWNING IT! The worst at times.” –Jams

[shoothoops]

Ah first the goalpost shifting.  Now the strawman.  Cheeks is using his entire bag of tricks today.

He was going to have a difficult time responding to all of his misinformation. Gotta find something, even if it was explained in part in response. When in doubt, blame the victim.

[MU82]

Here is a horrific account of how Charlotte police ambushed and tear-gassed hundreds of peaceful protesters during one rally last week. They blocked off all escape routes, walled off the protesters and terrorized them. Charlotte did not have a curfew, and the atrocities were captured on video.

As one protester said:

“That was some Third World crap that they pulled. On their own citizens. In Charlotte.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article243278326.html?

At first, the police chief - as often is the case in these things - defended the actions of his cops and said the protesters had been violent. But after actually watching the video evidence, he acknowledged mistakes and said he would hold officers accountable. We'll see.

He didn't admit that he lied about the violence.

(FWIW, the chief is black, and he is supposed to retire this summer.)

Very ashamed of my city's response that night. Otherwise, things generally seem to have been handled OK, with relatively few accounts of violence by either cops or protesters, but this was unforgivable and totally unnecessary.

[Pakuni]

You mentioned Anaheim, I see nothing about Anaheim and do not remember it and why should I if it doesn’t seem to register as anything of note.

Willful ignorance is no excuse.

Ferguson we all remember.  There is no goal post shifting.  You need to understand the history of Ferguson to understand what happened there.  The demographic changes from 1970 to 2010 are astonishing, but not unlike other suburbs of major cities in Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York.  You had a once almost all white city become a city with 25% whites and very little voter participation.  The old police force remained the same with nepotism and the new residents didn’t bother to vote for change. 12% voter turnout and key positions run unopposed. Sound familiar?  This is what I have been talking about.  Local action is required by local voters.  They are the agents of change.  Ferguson finally did that, and could have done it years earlier, but with 12% voter participation they were disinterested in doing so for far too long.  Why?

Everything you've written here is the definition of goalpost shifting.
You started this with the claim that you couldn't remember any police-related rioting in cities with Republican mayors. I gave you three instances in just the last eight years (no including last week, by the way). Rather than admit you were mistaken or misinformed, you've excused your ignorance with ramblings about demographics and voter turnout, which seem to have no point but to blame black residents for their mistreatment. I guess your argument now is that black citizens should expect to be treated unfairly by white politicians. Quite the claim.

[shoothoops]

Good brief description of what it actually means to defund the police:

https://www.newsweek.com/john-oliver-defund-police-show-1509407?amp=1&utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

John Oliver's entire show. Worth your time:

https://twitter.com/LastWeekTonight/status/1269993152171122689?s=19

[Jockey]

Don't feed the troll.

Thank you, Jesmu.

I open Scoop and half the posts I read are responding to the same person.

He has NO opinions. He is just looking for posters to argue with. Just stop it.

I have been on Scoop long enough to know that everyone arguing with him today is smarter than he is. You are all capable of making your points without using him as a foil.

[MUBurrow]

nm