Less-than-flattering take on JFB

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What do you have against hardworking, clutch two-way players who've improved every year?

Nothing, I love what Jimmy can do with a basketball. I just don't like everything else that he has brought with it.

I know some people love Jimmy's attitude and how gets in player's faces but I don't. I prefer players who keep their mouth shut and play the game. And while some on here praised JFB for tripping one of the Plumlee clones, I didn't. It was a dirty play that has no place in basketball. He runs his mouth about every call, publicly airs dirty laundry from the locker room in front of the media, and by multiple reports, doesn't seem like a good team player. Love his talent, but all these things rub me the wrong way. I love what he did and still does for Marquette and will continue to cheer for him. But I prefer Matthews, Wade, Crowder, and Novak to JFB. I'll probably prefer Ellenson to JFB too once he goes pro.

[keefe]

The guy plays basketball. All that matters is if he helps his team win.

[🏀]

I think what people mean is Jimmy's a bit of an asshat.

[DegenerateDish]

Jimmy could be traded because he's the most valuable trade asset the Bulls have (unless they pull of a lottery win). Bulls problem is they have no identity, Hoiberg seems not to have the persona to instill that so far. They have a terribly flawed roster as well, that management has tried to get every ounce of basketball out of, and the last two years it's showed.

I don't know if Rose will be moved, but he actually had a fairly good year this season. He's a far different player now, and a team like Charlotte or Denver I could see making a move for him. The increase in the cap makes Rose a lot easier to move.

If I were the Bulls, I'd tank 2016, and trade Butler to Boston for theirs and Brooklyn's 2017 firsts. I would want as many 2017 first rounders as I can get.

[NorthernDancerColt]

John Paxson and Gar Forman are not suited to be in charge of basketball operations for the Bulls.  I would have immediately fired John Paxson the moment he strangled Vinny Del Negro after a game for playing players too long.  I would have immediately fired Gar Forman for not only firing Tom Thibdodeau (and having his hand-picked replacement Fred Hoiberg proven to be ill-equipped to manage NBA personalities), but also for instructing the players to "tune out" Thibodeau in December of last year - hoping to make Thibodeau look bad and be the reason the team couldn't advance past LeBron in the playoffs. 

The level of dysfunction is reflective of the leadership in charge of the organization.  No one is accountable.  Not Paxson.  Not Forman.  Not Hoiberg.  Not Rose.  Not Jimmy.  It's quite unreal to see a professional franchise be in such shambles. 




This is a good assessment. Also, Jimmy, although very capable in transition, is not a high-pace offense puzzle piece, and is primarily an isolation player. Doesn't seem to fit in Hoiberg's push-the-ball and keep it flying offense. His huge games featured him isolated in his pre-Hoiberg (Thibs) sets. If GarPax just could've gotten Thibs to be more compliant to management/trainer-mandated minutes restrictions, he would still be coaching, and the Bulls would at least be limping into the playoffs. The effect of injuries on this sad situation cannot be understated.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The funny thing about those injuries is that management (Forman/Paxson) always blamed Thibodeau.  They thought he worked the team too hard and played players too much.  Well, he was gone this year, and guess what?  The team still lost Noah, Dunleavy, Butler, Gibson, Mirotic, and Rose for numerous games due to injuries.  They lost many games they shouldn't have.  They (Paxson/Forman) couldn't place blame on Thibodeau, since he was long gone, and they certainly wouldn't blame it on Hoiberg, who they just hired, or themselves, which they have never done.  They have never raised a finger of protest against Derrick Rose.  They can't blame Pau Gasol or Joakim Noah (they are free agents). 

So who does that leave?  Who is the epitome and shining example of the Tom Thibodeau era?  That's Jimmy Butler.

They are spinning the failures of this year onto someone else they can dismiss and place all of their failures onto.  They did it with it Vinny Del Negro, Scott Skiles, and Tom Thibodeau.  They did it with Luol Deng.  And now they are doing it to Butler.

[JWags85]

Jabari and Giannis say and do all the right things and based on people I know that have worked with them, that persona is real

The same Giannis who had a hissy fit in the playoffs last year and threw Dunleavy out of bounds, the least likely Bull to fight back? He's not an angel, no NBA star is. They are all competitors to the highest degree and doesn't always lend itself to angelic behavior.

Bulls fans went crazy over Jimmy's grit and attitude when he didn't stand down from Nene and got head butted.  As they said in the West Wing "they'll like us when we win".  Larry Bird and MJ's trash talk has been lauded for good reason, it's just the kind of nitpicky stuff people harp on when things aren't going well.

As for the leader ego portion, I still struggle to see that as a bad thing. Rose is a shell, Noah's been out of commission, Jimmy just got paid a max contract and was the best returning player. If he doesn't step up and say "I got this" at that point, he'll never be looks at as "the man" for the rest of his career, it was his moment.  Throwing Hoiberg under the bus publicly was a bad look, no question, but it also spoke to the authority vacuum in the organization, especially for a guy who credits much of his success to the previous coach.

[brewcity77]

They didn't blame Rose? They don't have to. Everyone in Chicago knows he's completely useless and a salary cap drain. Taking time to blame Rose serves no purpose. He's broken and can't be fixed other than by coming off the books.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, you're wrong on several counts here:
- I can see why he might rub people the wrong way. I just happen to think those reasons are nonsense.
- He has earned the respect of teammates, with the exception of possibly one whose posse is well known for whispering unflattering things about others in the organization to the Chicago media.
- Neither of us know how approachable he is (or how approachable Parker or Giannis are, for that matter).
- He's far from the reason why the Bulls have horrible chemistry. In fact, the "horrible chemistry" stuff is largely bunk. This is pretty much the same lineup and chemistry that won 50 games last year and played the Cavs tough in the playoffs. The same lineup/chemistry that had the team 22-12 in January and third-seeded in the East. Chemistry didn't kills this team. Injuries and inconsistency did.

How big of a Bulls fan are you Pakuni?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Here's what needs to happen but Gar/Pax would never have the stones to do it trade Rose and Gibson, let Noah and Pau walk, maybe get something for McDermott and cut Snell. Build around Jimmy, Portis, and Mirotic and draft well. You gotta blow it up, this team isnt gonna win anything anytime soon. Rose has been such a detriment to the team since the first ACL injury.

[wadesworld]

The same Giannis who had a hissy fit in the playoffs last year and threw Dunleavy out of bounds, the least likely Bull to fight back? He's not an angel, no NBA star is. They are all competitors to the highest degree and doesn't always lend itself to angelic behavior.

Not to defend Giannis's play as it was dirty and flat out stupid, but to say Dunleavy is "the least likely to fight back" is flat out wrong.  Dunleavy is a dirty player and took 2 completely dirty shots in that game, including the one that led to Giannis's really, really stupid play.  Again, not defending Giannis's play in the least bit, and my guess is Giannis would be the first to say it was an idiotic play (if you can even call it a "play"), but first Dunleavy clearly intentionally threw a punch right into MCW's jaw while MCW was defenselessly coming down from a floater (and wasn't called for anything), hit MCW up in the neck area on an (uncalled) illegal screen, and then took a swing up near Giannis's neck "boxing out" just before that (uncalled again).  Dunleavy is a well known dirty player.  So I guess maybe he wouldn't fight back, he'd just hit someone below the belt with all 4 of his own teammates within arms reach in case that person retaliated.

[wadesworld]

Here's what needs to happen but Gar/Pax would never have the stones to do it trade Rose and Gibson, let Noah and Pau walk, maybe get something for McDermott and cut Snell. Build around Jimmy, Portis, and Mirotic and draft well. You gotta blow it up, this team isnt gonna win anything anytime soon. Rose has been such a detriment to the team since the first ACL injury.

Mirotic is a one trick pony.  Get a hand up to contest but stay down and don't bight on the pump and let him jump into you and he's useless.  Personally I think McDermott has a better chance to really contribute in the NBA than Mirotic does.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Not to defend Giannis's play as it was dirty and flat out stupid, but to say Dunleavy is "the least likely to fight back" is flat out wrong.  Dunleavy is a dirty player and took 2 completely dirty shots in that game, including the one that led to Giannis's really, really stupid play.  Again, not defending Giannis's play in the least bit, and my guess is Giannis would be the first to say it was an idiotic play (if you can even call it a "play"), but first Dunleavy clearly intentionally threw a punch right into MCW's jaw while MCW was defenselessly coming down from a floater (and wasn't called for anything), hit MCW up in the neck area on an (uncalled) illegal screen, and then took a swing up near Giannis's neck "boxing out" just before that (uncalled again).  Dunleavy is a well known dirty player.  So I guess maybe he wouldn't fight back, he'd just hit someone below the belt with all 4 of his own teammates within arms reach in case that person retaliated.

There was no punch.

[Dr. Blackheart]

John Paxson and Gar Forman are not suited to be in charge of basketball operations for the Bulls.  I would have immediately fired John Paxson the moment he strangled Vinny Del Negro after a game for playing players too long.  I would have immediately fired Gar Forman for not only firing Tom Thibdodeau (and having his hand-picked replacement Fred Hoiberg proven to be ill-equipped to manage NBA personalities), but also for instructing the players to "tune out" Thibodeau in December of last year - hoping to make Thibodeau look bad and be the reason the team couldn't advance past LeBron in the playoffs. 

The level of dysfunction is reflective of the leadership in charge of the organization.  No one is accountable.  Not Paxson.  Not Forman.  Not Hoiberg.  Not Rose.  Not Jimmy.  It's quite unreal to see a professional franchise be in such shambles. 

As a Bulls fan, I would fire Paxson and Forman, and hire an outside experienced NBA Executive with no ties to Jerry Reinsdorf or the team (stop with the former players getting big roles), and begin a full-on rebuild.  Hoiberg has too massive a contract to be let go after one year.  Let Noah, Gasol and Dunleavy all go.  Start rebuilding through the draft and get more athleticism on the team.

Bang on.  Adding that Sam Smith is a paid toady of Gar-Pax.  Gar was Tim Floyd's bag man.  Scum of the earth.  They are after Jimmy in the press as he is the only one one they can trade of value, so they are denigrating him now in advance of dumping him.

[wadesworld]

There was no punch.

There was definitely a punch, and definitely an intentional one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDTdznm7KH4

[Pakuni]

Not to defend Giannis's play as it was dirty and flat out stupid, but to say Dunleavy is "the least likely to fight back" is flat out wrong.  Dunleavy is a dirty player and took 2 completely dirty shots in that game, including the one that led to Giannis's really, really stupid play.  Again, not defending Giannis's play in the least bit, and my guess is Giannis would be the first to say it was an idiotic play (if you can even call it a "play"), but first Dunleavy clearly intentionally threw a punch right into MCW's jaw while MCW was defenselessly coming down from a floater (and wasn't called for anything), hit MCW up in the neck area on an (uncalled) illegal screen, and then took a swing up near Giannis's neck "boxing out" just before that (uncalled again). Dunleavy is a well known dirty player. So I guess maybe he wouldn't fight back, he'd just hit someone below the belt with all 4 of his own teammates within arms reach in case that person retaliated.

Ehhh ... Mike Dunleavy has played 933 NBA games. He has been called for six flagrant fouls. So, about one every two seasons.
Doesn't exactly support the notion that he's "a well known dirty player."

[wadesworld]

Ehhh ... Mike Dunleavy has played 933 NBA games. He has been called for six flagrant fouls. So, about one every two seasons.
Doesn't exactly support the notion that he's "a well known dirty player."

I'm not sure where to find flagrant foul stats but I doubt Matthew Dellevedova was near the top of flagrant fouls in the NBA last year, yet he was voted the dirtiest player in the NBA. Dirty does not necessarily equate to flagrant fouls, especially today where even incidental contact above the shoulders is a flagrant foul. I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that Dunleavy has long been known as a guy who is more than happy to take a cheap shot when the opportunity presents itself.

[Lennys Tap]

The funny thing about those injuries is that management (Forman/Paxson) always blamed Thibodeau.  They thought he worked the team too hard and played players too much.  Well, he was gone this year, and guess what?  The team still lost Noah, Dunleavy, Butler, Gibson, Mirotic, and Rose for numerous games due to injuries.  They lost many games they shouldn't have.  They (Paxson/Forman) couldn't place blame on Thibodeau, since he was long gone, and they certainly wouldn't blame it on Hoiberg, who they just hired, or themselves, which they have never done.  They have never raised a finger of protest against Derrick Rose.  They can't blame Pau Gasol or Joakim Noah (they are free agents). 

So who does that leave?  Who is the epitome and shining example of the Tom Thibodeau era?  That's Jimmy Butler.

They are spinning the failures of this year onto someone else they can dismiss and place all of their failures onto.  They did it with it Vinny Del Negro, Scott Skiles, and Tom Thibodeau.  They did it with Luol Deng.  And now they are doing it to Butler.

Your facts are true, your conclusions are unassailable. Well done.

Jimmy was the only Bull who didn't quietly accept the mess that Paxson and Foreman made, the only Bull (including the coach and the front office) who demanded excellence from himself and those around him. While everybody else was busy covering their own backsides Jimmy was laying his on the line - and expecting the same from others. Unhealthy organizations don't like accountability or those who demand it - first it was Thibs, now it's JFB. Who'll be next?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

There was definitely a punch, and definitely an intentional one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDTdznm7KH4

I don't think you know what a punch is.

[wadesworld]

I don't think you know what a punch is.

Watch him from the very start of the video. When you just watch him live it's pretty clear he has a closed fist, draws his elbow back, and punches MCW. Hence why the title of the video is "Dunleavy punches..."

Another take (didn't realize his punch chipped MCW's tooth):

http://www.thescore.com/news/757346

The Vine in the article clearly shows a closed fisted punch. Definitely a punch.

[connie]

My memory may be off but I recall unfettered Jimmy love until he rejected the Bulls first contract.  He had such a great year after the team really had no choice but to give him a huge contract.  Then Tibs is gone, Noah wears out, Dunleavy is hurt and the team more or less implodes.  The whole Rose thing is hard to place.  So much leftover MVP thinking when he is clearly not physically capable of that game.  Dude has never struck me as a hard worker, just an athletic freak, and who knows what Rose is thinking--the stuff that comes out of his mouth is hard to believe. The anti-Jimmy talk seems to have increased after he came out against Hoiberg, but I think it started from the "can't let go of Derrick as MVP" crowd.

Probably all contribute to the dumpster fire, and as the new kid with the big contract (and a big mouth) on a team that way underperformed expectations (and let's be honest, Chicago still thinks the Bears are contenders because 1985!), Jimmy is taking the hits.

[kmwtrucks]

The Team last year had better chemistry.  It also had Tibs and Jimmy butler making 5 mil per year and not 20 Mil.    It sounds what What I read that Jimmy was more of a leader last year making 5 mil and less this year making 20 mil.  Last year he led by example and this year he leads by a Carmelo Anthony type example.  His D is worse, his shot selection is worse.  He does not work to help teammates get shots like he use to.  He does not goto the hole as much and settles for Jumpers.  And he goes to the Media and says allot of things he should be saying in private.   Jimmy got a little to famous to quick and still plays the troumble texas Card but that is just for the public.  all the reporters around the team say its just for show.

[Herman Cain]

All I really care about is that JFB continues to perform at the highest level on the court. If he does that everything else will take care of itself.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Watch him from the very start of the video. When you just watch him live it's pretty clear he has a closed fist, draws his elbow back, and punches MCW. Hence why the title of the video is "Dunleavy punches..."

Another take (didn't realize his punch chipped MCW's tooth):

http://www.thescore.com/news/757346

The Vine in the article clearly shows a closed fisted punch. Definitely a punch.

Yeah, I still don't consider that much of a punch, aside from what the editor decided to use for the headline.  And it certainly didn't call for a full court sprint and tackle.  Agree to disagree. 

[wadesworld]

Yeah, I still don't consider that much of a punch, aside from what the editor decided to use for the headline.  And it certainly didn't call for a full court sprint and tackle.  Agree to disagree.

Like I said, I'm not saying anything about Giannis's decision.  But I don't know what Dunleavy did to MCW could possibly be called if it's not a punch (which just about every article and highlight I find of it is titled..."Dunleavy punches MCW").

Giannis's decision was inexcusable.  Doesn't change the fact that Dunleavy is known as a dirty player, not some angel who "is the last person that would fight back."