Moving your Wojo Needle

[1SE]

Just gonna say, I refuse to accept the titles projo and nojo, and if people want to take one of those titles on themselves, ok, fine.  But if you gonna' label someone else, well, that's not quite how it works. 

I myself, always want Marquette to succeed.  I was willing to give Wojo a chance - and even for this year.  I'll always cheer on his teams and players.

However unless there's miraculous improvement, I don't think he's done enough.  Nonetheless, little chance any change happiness before the end of the 2021-2022 season, so Go Marquette!

So you're a so-sojo then?

[rocky_warrior]

So you're a so-sojo then?

 

[shoothoops]

How is Wojo doing compared to some of his peers? We mention Villanova as a lofty program goal. Nova Nation aside, what else would be a good sign of progress? What jumps out?

Greg McDermott has Creighton positioned for its 5th straight top 3 league finish.

Kevin Willard completed Seton Hall's 5th straight top 3 league finish this past season.

A Wojo/MU run of 5 straight top 3 league finishes would be nice. (He has 2 in six seasons, likely seven seasons)

A few others left for Power 5 leagues. (Mack went 3 for 5, Holtmann went 2 for 3 in this top 3 league finish discussion before moving on)

[panda]

How is Wojo doing compared to some of his peers? We mention Villanova as a lofty program goal. Nova Nation aside, what else would be a good sign of progress? What jumps out?

Greg McDermott has Creighton positioned for its 5th straight top 3 league finish.

Kevin Willard completed Seton Hall's 5th straight top 3 league finish this past season.

A Wojo/MU run of 5 straight top 3 league finishes would be nice. (He has 2 in six seasons, likely seven seasons)

A few others left for Power 5 leagues. (Mack went 3 for 5, Holtmann went 2 for 3 in this top 3 league finish discussion before moving on)

According to some, he needs at least 10 season to get his feet wet.

[shoothoops]

According to some, he needs at least 10 season to get his feet wet.

Willard struggled for five seasons at Seton Hall before going top 3 in the league each of the next five.

Others did it sooner or left for Power 5 while on a good path.

[Silent Verbal]

Willard struggled for five seasons at Seton Hall before going top 3 in the league each of the next five.

Others did it sooner or left for Power 5 while on a good path.

The overall program and expectations at Seton Hall when Willard took over there are not comparable to what they were at Marquette when Wojo became our head coach.

[shoothoops]

The overall program and expectations at Seton Hall when Willard took over there are not comparable to what they were at Marquette when Wojo became our head coach.

I don't disagree with that.

[MarquetteMike1977]

Not that it matters much but Heard Marquette has one of the worst Win per Fan Attendance ratios in the Country since joining the New Big East. Guess we have high Fan Attendance,  prior to covid, with a relatively low amount of Wins in comparison. Is this true. Not Sure how but this should or has to change

[wadesworld]

Not that it matters much but Heard Marquette has one of the worst Win per Fan Attendance ratios in the Country since joining the New Big East. Guess we have high Fan Attendance,  prior to covid, with a relatively low amount of Wins in comparison. Is this true. Not Sure how but this should or has to change

Very concerning.

[rocky_warrior]

Win per Fan Attendance ratios

no way?  that feels like a social media troll.  that can't be a real stat.

[5DollarPitcher]

Not that it matters much but Heard Marquette has one of the worst Win per Fan Attendance ratios in the Country since joining the New Big East. Guess we have high Fan Attendance,  prior to covid, with a relatively low amount of Wins in comparison. Is this true. Not Sure how but this should or has to change

It means we’re not cheering loud enough because we’re such bad fans and we should stop booing Wojo because we’re such bad fans. Maybe as fans we need to look in the mirror and be better fans and maybe then the team on the floor would win more. Also fans’ opinions have absolutely no effect on the teams performance or the direction of the program so why bother with any of it anyway?

I think I covered all the reasons.

[naginiF]

The overall program and expectations at Seton Hall when Willard took over there are not comparable to what they were at Marquette when Wojo became our head coach.

What are the overall program expectations at Marquette? Not your expectations, not my expectations, not Scoops expectations but what are the expectations placed on the program by the BOT/President/AD? I honestly don't know but those expectations are the important ones.

[Badgerhater]

What are the overall program expectations at Marquette? Not your expectations, not my expectations, not Scoops expectations but what are the expectations placed on the program by the BOT/President/AD? I honestly don't know but those expectations are the important ones.

I hope they have higher expectations than Seton Hall did 10 years ago, but I am having doubts about that.

[naginiF]

I hope they have higher expectations than Seton Hall did 10 years ago, but I am having doubts about that.

Agreed. But if they weren't happy with Buzz because of some of the things within the program that accompanied the success it points to them not valuing the deep runs as much or they have much more patience on when/if runs occur. If that is the case then some expectations here are set too high.

[cheebs09]

Agreed. But if they weren't happy with Buzz because of some of the things within the program that accompanied the success it points to them not valuing the deep runs as much or they have much more patience on when/if runs occur. If that is the case then some expectations here are set too high.

I’m not sure I’d go that far. I think there were some changes to be made. If the response to the sexual assault allegations happened today, Buzz may have been fired. I think some of the academic restrictions was getting in front of the NCAA APR requirements.

Now, to implement those changes, I don’t think either side handled it very well. I’m guessing it was a pretty toxic working environment at the end. I don’t think Buzz tanked the last season at all, but I do think all that drama negatively impacted the team.

[shoothoops]

Agreed. But if they weren't happy with Buzz because of some of the things within the program that accompanied the success it points to them not valuing the deep runs as much or they have much more patience on when/if runs occur. If that is the case then some expectations here are set too high.

Nah.

I decide my own expectations for the program. I decide if those expectations match those that make head coaching decisions at MU. And, if my expectations are different, I decide how much or how little I support the program. The same goes for everyone else. Just because a certain group of people make basketball head coaching decisions, doesn't mean they are correct, or have the correct expectations etc...that is for every individual to decide for his or herself accordingly. Hopefully they match up. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

[naginiF]

I’m not sure I’d go that far. I think there were some changes to be made. If the response to the sexual assault allegations happened today, Buzz may have been fired. I think some of the academic restrictions was getting in front of the NCAA APR requirements.

Now, to implement those changes, I don’t think either side handled it very well. I’m guessing it was a pretty toxic working environment at the end. I don’t think Buzz tanked the last season at all, but I do think all that drama negatively impacted the team.

Fair

Nah.

I decide my own expectations for the program. I decide if those expectations match those that make head coaching decisions at MU. And, if my expectations are different, I decide how much or how little I support the program. The same goes for everyone else. Just because a certain group of people make basketball head coaching decisions, doesn't mean they are correct, or have the correct expectations etc...that is for every individual to decide for his or herself accordingly. Hopefully they match up. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

I think we're in agreement but any rational college basketball fan that doesn't root for AZ, KU, OkSt, etc. balances their expectations with the realities of managing the entire institution and the many variables that go into that. We can all be MUGURU (RIP) and believe that success on the court should come before everything else and live in perpetual disappointment because that's not what MU is about. The last 18 -24 (arguably 48) months would indicate that those making the decision are OK with the performance. I realize that extensions and PR are mostly for appearances and that maybe/hopefully the gears of change are in motion but from what is known we should all probably strap in through next season regardless.

I agree, your support or lack there of, is

[shoothoops]

FairI think we're in agreement but any rational college basketball fan that doesn't root for AZ, KU, OkSt, etc. balances their expectations with the realities of managing the entire institution and the many variables that go into that. We can all be MUGURU (RIP) and believe that success on the court should come before everything else and live in perpetual disappointment because that's not what MU is about. The last 18 -24 (arguably 48) months would indicate that those making the decision are OK with the performance. I realize that extensions and PR are mostly for appearances and that maybe/hopefully the gears of change are in motion but from what is known we should all probably strap in through next season regardless.

I agree, your support or lack there of, is

Some might take a pass on strapping in. If MU struggles, misses the tourney etc...an additional segment of people may walk away with it, maybe donate less, maybe don't renew those tix, maybe less walk ups next year etc...and so on...I certainly understand pandemic dollars and decisions. But the people have the power. And few things have more power than apathy.

[Billy Hoyle]

I hope they have higher expectations than Seton Hall did 10 years ago, but I am having doubts about that.

12 years ago Seton Hall was told by BE leaders to get their crap together in hoops (financial commitments particularly) or be left behind when the inevitable new BE formed. Willard also took over for a train wreck in Gonzalez. SH had not been to the NCAA tourney since 2006 (3 since 1994) and 1 NIT in that span 3 since 1999). MU....?

[Not A Serious Person]

Some might take a pass on strapping in. If MU struggles, misses the tourney etc...an additional segment of people may walk away with it, maybe donate less, maybe don't renew those tix, maybe less walk ups next year etc...and so on...I certainly understand pandemic dollars and decisions. But the people have the power. And few things have more power than apathy.

And if you fire Wojo and you have mass transfers out and left with a 20+ Games a year in losses, what is the apathy then.  Answer, huge!

The only way to offset it is to spend big for a high profile coach ($4+m). This is the last thing the BOT will do in this pandemic year.

[79Warrior]

I don't believe for a second that MU can not buy him out.

Dead man walking.

Why? MU financials are not good at the moment. Actually, pretty bad. He is not getting fired.

[Billy Hoyle]

Why? MU financials are not good at the moment. Actually, pretty bad. He is not getting fired.

Exactly.  We don't have the donor base to step up to buy him out and even if we did, the optics of the university doing that while laying off staff, cutting programs, and facing a $45 million deficit would be brutal:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2020/09/30/marquette-facing-deep-cuts-due-covid-19-lower-enrollment-outlook/3579205001/

[4everwarriors]

Hey, if Harbaugh can get an extension at UM, pretty sure Woj can get one at MU, aina?

[onepost]

I was out on Wojo the moment Sam and Joey left, and the fact he handled it like a petulant child.
You don't lose a player or a person like Sam Hauser, who received as much PT as he could handle from Day 1 and who had a universal approval rating in the program/community, unless you're completely inept.  Which he is.

All he's done since then is completely collapse last season with the most decorated player in school history and a group of 3+ year program/collegiate (Koby) guys and blow game after game this season with a roster most people here can agree is more talented.

What we have to show for this is a few great regular season wins (Nova, Creighton, Wisco), a 2nd place finish in conference because we couldn't win 1 game in 2 weeks, no further than a Quarterfinal appearance in the Big East Tourney, and 2 NCAA games where we were competitive for a half before getting completely annihilated by 7 seed South Carolina and 12 seed Murray St.

We are becoming nationally irrelevant.  It'll end up being a decade since we last won a tourney game.  10 years!!  We're about a year or two away from becoming Wake Forest.  And our administration is too stupid (apparently hamstringing themselves with a contract they can't get out of) and a large portion of the fanbase too apathetic to truly want change.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  If we truly give a crap about this program, you'd throw the bag at John Belien and finally bring in a quality, proven coach.  No more half measures, no more flashy assistants.  Would be a perfect fit.  But they're pinching pennies and are fine with our complete mediocrity so long as our coach is a "good guy" and we're occasionally on the bubble.  What a unnatural carnal knowledgeing shame.

[wadesworld]

I was out on Wojo the moment Sam and Joey left, and the fact he handled it like a petulant child.
You don't lose a player or a person like Sam Hauser, who received as much PT as he could handle from Day 1 and who had a universal approval rating in the program/community, unless you're completely inept.  Which he is.

All he's done since then is completely collapse last season with the most decorated player in school history and a group of 3+ year program/collegiate (Koby) guys and blow game after game this season with a roster most people here can agree is more talented.

What we have to show for this is a few great regular season wins (Nova, Creighton, Wisco), a 2nd place finish in conference because we couldn't win 1 game in 2 weeks, no further than a Quarterfinal appearance in the Big East Tourney, and 2 NCAA games where we were competitive for a half before getting completely annihilated by 7 seed South Carolina and 12 seed Murray St.

We are becoming nationally irrelevant.  It'll end up being a decade since we last won a tourney game.  10 years!!  We're about a year or two away from becoming Wake Forest.  And our administration is too stupid (apparently hamstringing themselves with a contract they can't get out of) and a large portion of the fanbase too apathetic to truly want change.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  If we truly give a crap about this program, you'd throw the bag at John Belien and finally bring in a quality, proven coach.  No more half measures, no more flashy assistants.  Would be a perfect fit.  But they're pinching pennies and are fine with our complete mediocrity so long as our coach is a "good guy" and we're occasionally on the bubble.  What a unnatural carnal knowledgeing shame.

Yeah. The administration is incompetent because they didn’t prepare for a pandemic that would kill them financially.

MU has never been able to bring in a coach the caliber of John Belien. Proven high level coaches aren’t lining up to come to Marquette. They weren’t after Crean. They weren’t after Buzz. They won’t be after Wojo.