Marquette Tribune Editorial: Stop Glorifying Athletes

[StillAWarrior]

If you're over 12 and asking for an autograph, you might be a loser.  I lump them into the same group of people that over 12 and bring a baseball mitt into the stadium.

I probably shouldn't go here...

...or over 12 and wear a replica jersey.

[Benny B]

The problem is, you can't have it both ways.

"Let's not put them on a pedestal."

Great. It's actually pretty easy. No more national TV. No more large arena. Play games at the Al, and become more like Loyola. 

Done.

If there are students who feel the basketball players are put on too high of a pedestal, and they really don't care for it, they could/should attend a D3 school (or loyola).

Please be more specific --- which Loyola?  There's something like fifty-two of them.

[Benny B]

If you're over 12 and asking for an autograph, you might be a loser.  I lump them into the same group of people that are over 12 and bring a baseball mitt into the stadium.

Interesting.... I lump the people who sit with their children in foul ball territory and don't bring a mitt into an even lesser category -- child abusers, people who lock their kids in closets, drunken co-sleepers, etc.

Frankly, I'd rather be called a loser than any of those things.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

When I was a freshman, Brian Brunkhorst and Jimmy Burke were junior starters on the basketball team. They lived on 4South at Schroeder with me and 37 other guys. They played softball on our intramural team and when we lost the championship game they bought a couple cases of beer and hosted a party in their room. When the RA knocked on the door to break up the party (drinking was verboten in the dorms then), Brian told him to join us or f#@k off. So I'm all about the "good old days" when the athletes were more a part of the student  body. It's a worthwhile topic of discussion - sometimes the "good old days" really were just that - but the only way that genie's going back in the bottle is if MU basketball becomes Ripon basketball.

I love this, and I wish it could be that way now. However, with modern media and social networking, it probably isn't a good idea. Plus, the last thing we need is Davante shredding his knee trying to leg out a triple in intramural softball.

Too bad, really. Maybe MU could come up with some new ways to get/keep the players integrated with the other students.

Pep rallies and BBQ's and such are great, but that still reinforces the player/fan relationship rather than the student/student relationship.

[ITS INDIANA!]

That is the case at Marquette, but what about at 200 (at least) DI schools where the players don't make millions of collars for the school.

When you say these guys are not here to go to school, that is a statement that doesn't sit well with me or many others.  They are here to go to school.  They are here to get a degree.  They are here to play basketball, but it's all of the above.  This is not the minor leagues.  Most of our guys will not be going on to play professional basketball.  Instead, basketball is a vehicle for them to get a free education, travel the country, get access to people that most of us wouldn't.  But they are certainly not here to only play basketball.  We are fortunate to have a high major DI program, but there are 350+ DI basketball programs and most do not make millions of dollars.  That doesn't even begin to address the DII, DIII NAIA and other associations where student athletes are playing their various sports.

The article has many problems, most of which been mentioned here.  However, their core point is a good one.  As a society, we put them up on a pedestal.  We make them out to be bigger than life.  We are the ones that start attacking coeds at MU because they dared to accuse some basketball players of sexual assault.  If the accused was an Engineering student that didn't play ball would anyone give a crap?  We all know the answer is no, or certainly we know that we wouldn't be bashing the coeds for taking down an Engineering student.  That's the situation I think the editors were trying to get at, but they took a strange path to get there.

You also have to take the article in stride based on who is reading it.  Don't think for a second that the 50% plus MU students that could not care less about men's hoops or athletics in general don't believe almost every word of that editorial.  We're here on a sports board so we are bias as to the benefits of sports.  The general populace is not that sympathetic and feels athletic teams and star athletes are put on a pedestal, from high school on up.  To ignore this would be wrong.  We all know stories of our own personal histories of athletes getting away with things that you and I couldn't.  Whether it was an inflated grade in high school, a prank that would have suspended everyone but the star athlete, extra "stuff" for the star athlete, along with a number of other things.  That rubs some people the wrong way.  For others, it's just the cost of doing business in a win at all costs society.

Hey Hoopaloopa... Thanks for the novel... We get it, you think they are here to go to school, and to get a degree and all the above bs. Point - in - case = THEY ARE HERE TO PLAY BASKETBALL. You couldn't be more ignorant if you believe they don't go on to play professionally. I challenge you to find a recent MU player that didn't/isn't playing professionally (i.e. ABROAD, D-Leauge, NBA, or other) after graduation... Yes, they are student-athletes, yes there should be a standard set for minimum grade performance. The trend of basketball players from MU playing professionally ultimately proves that THIS IS THE MINOR LEAGUES and that their FUTURE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES THEREFORE, celebrities and is okay to be treated as such on campus with their own housing/facilities/dining halls etc. etc. etc.

[ringout]

Seriously?  Does that actually happen?  Wow.  The basketball team lived in McCormick with us my freshman year.  I shared a meal or two with Joe Nethen in the cafeteria and lived to tell about it.  I got to know several of the basketball players a little bit in my four years at Marquette.  It never even crossed my mind to even consider asking for an autograph.

Terrell Schlundt, Michael Wilson, Dean Marquardt.  All lived in McCormick, all turned out to be regular guys.  I think it would be great to go back to those days, But....college students expectations are much higher now.  Even regular students b*tch about McCormick.  They all want individual bathrooms and a/c.  Scholarship athletes know that all the big time programs offer special facilities.  MU needs to compete or die.

[LON]

Interesting.... I lump the people who sit with their children in foul ball territory and don't bring a mitt into an even lesser category -- child abusers, people who lock their kids in closets, drunken co-sleepers, etc.

Frankly, I'd rather be called a loser than any of those things.

Certainly there are exceptions.  Or you catch the ball in your cup of beer.

[RyanConroy]

Seriously?  Does that actually happen?  Wow.  The basketball team lived in McCormick with us my freshman year.  I shared a meal or two with Joe Nethen in the cafeteria and lived to tell about it.  I got to know several of the basketball players a little bit in my four years at Marquette.  It never even crossed my mind to even consider asking for an autograph.

It absolutely happens, mostly in situations like after MU Madness or around the Al. I've never seen anybody pull a sharpie out on the street, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done before. Let's hope for all of our sake that it hasn't.

[strotty]

It doesn't happen even close to as much as people on here (EDIT) think.

[StillAWarrior]

It doesn't happen even close to as much as people on here are saying.

I haven't seen anyone here even take a stab at saying how much it happens...so I'm not sure what to make of your comment.

[Benny B]

It absolutely happens, mostly in situations like after MU Madness or around the Al. I've never seen anybody pull a sharpie out on the street, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done before. Let's hope for all of our sake that it hasn't.

I used to pass one of Dominic, Crean, Ousmane, Novak, Fitz & Wes almost daily one semester just the way schedules line up, I suppose.  Not once did I ever consider asking for an autograph, and I never saw another student for one either, but while I think it does happen, like Strotty I would guess it happens much less frequently than many believe.

Heck, as a GA I came across more than several of Wes' and Fitz's homework assignments.  It never occurred to me to do anything but my job and record their grades just like everyone else.  Although, I'm sure the TA/GA's at UConn, KY, Syracuse, etc. don't have as high standards as we did.  Not that it would have mattered any way.... Dan and Wes did quite well on their own.

Not sure where this whole "glorifying" the MU athlete thing came from and what it has to do with UC-X, but I've never seen students fawning over MBB players.  Heck, I've seen more fawning over the WBB players on this board then I ever did in my days on campus.

[TallTitan34]

Aside from autograph sessions at Marquette Madness, not once did I see a student ask a player for an autograph.

I don't think this happens at all. 

[marquette09]

Aside from autograph sessions at Marquette Madness, not once did I see a student ask a player for an autograph.

I don't think this happens at all. 

Yeah, in my four years at MU I only saw it at Marquette Madness

[cheebs09]

My freshman year (2007), there was an autograph session at a kickoff type picnic at the start of the semester. But as others have said, I can't ever remember a player walking around campus and being asked an autograph.

[T.V. Diener 34]

Anybody ever seen Adam Corolla's rant on OWS?  Kind of says the same thing with people's sense of entitlement.... the thought of "If i can't have what you have then you shouldn't have it either".

If you really want to see it, go to youtube and type in adam corolla rant... didn't want to post it here since there's some seedy language ha

[MU_LOL]

I'd bet it was some Scooper that's trolling the whole MU basketball community that wrote it. "Staff." Lol.

[Hoopaloop]

Hey Hoopaloopa... Thanks for the novel... We get it, you think they are here to go to school, and to get a degree and all the above bs. Point - in - case = THEY ARE HERE TO PLAY BASKETBALL. You couldn't be more ignorant if you believe they don't go on to play professionally. I challenge you to find a recent MU player that didn't/isn't playing professionally (i.e. ABROAD, D-Leauge, NBA, or other) after graduation... Yes, they are student-athletes, yes there should be a standard set for minimum grade performance. The trend of basketball players from MU playing professionally ultimately proves that THIS IS THE MINOR LEAGUES and that their FUTURE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES THEREFORE, celebrities and is okay to be treated as such on campus with their own housing/facilities/dining halls etc. etc. etc.

You said in your first rant that all these guys are here to play basketball only.  You have a myopic view of college basketball then.  There are almost 350 DI schools and most of them the players aren't there to play basketball only.  Most of the programs do not make millions of dollars as you claim either.  Some guys on the MU team certainly would play basketball only if that was their choice, but fortunately MU makes them attend classes and at least attempt to get a degree.  This isn't the case say at WVU or UNLV or some other schools. 

Did you realize that Oregon makes $3 million in revenue in basketball?  They are ranked 73rd in revenue rankings with more than 275 schools below them in revenue, do you still want to stick to your claims that these guys are making millions for their schools when about half of the programs in DI don't even make $1 million and another 25% make less than $2 million.  Your myopic view triangulates on a few schools and then you make broad statements to lump everyone in together.

I never once mentioned anything about their own housing, dining halls or anything else. 

A recent player that didn't play elsewhere after graduation?  Define recent?  The reality for almost all of our players is that few will make it to the NBA and only a few others will be able to play ball enough after school to make a decent long term living out of it.  They need something to fall back on, which is why they are here. 

[Hoopaloop]

The problem is, you can't have it both ways.

"Let's not put them on a pedestal."

Great. It's actually pretty easy. No more national TV. No more large arena. Play games at the Al, and become more like Loyola. 

Done.

If there are students who feel the basketball players are put on too high of a pedestal, and they really don't care for it, they could/should attend a D3 school (or loyola).

So if a student wanted a high quality Physical Therapy education at Marquette he or she should not consider Marquette because of the basketball program?   That sounds crazy to me.

The reality is that most students don't care about sports much to let it influence their choice of schools.  To suggest someone shouldn't go to a school because they disagree with how the athletes are treated seems odd to me.  They have every right to go to that school and be against how college athletes are treated if they wish.  There is a reason why a number of the players are not liked on campus, two of them in particular.  My question to some of you would be why?  Is it mere jealousy and envy?  Or is it their actions and the entitlement that they bring with them?

[Steve Buscemi]

Classic Chicos  double post

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So if a student wanted a high quality Physical Therapy education at Marquette he or she should not consider Marquette because of the basketball program?   That sounds crazy to me.

The reality is that most students don't care about sports much to let it influence their choice of schools.  To suggest someone shouldn't go to a school because they disagree with how the athletes are treated seems odd to me.  They have every right to go to that school and be against how college athletes are treated if they wish.  There is a reason why a number of the players are not liked on campus, two of them in particular.  My question to some of you would be why?  Is it mere jealousy and envy?  Or is it their actions and the entitlement that they bring with them?

Well, if the treatment of the players bothers somebody so much, then yes, I think it can/should influence their college decision.

Put it this way: I knew at 18, that I didn't really like the greek system. Therefore, going to a school that had a huge greek population wasn't a good option for me.

Easy.

[tower912]

I first heard of Marquette because of the basketball team.   Watching the 77 championship was about the 3rd time my parents ever let me stay up late to watch a sporting event.    I chose MU because (A) the other schools I visited gave arrogant presentations, (B) I, too, loathed the greek system, and (C) the basketball.

[MU82]

I grew up 1000 miles away from Milwaukee and wouldn't have known Marquette existed if not for the basketball team. And I'm sure that I'm just one of thousands -- tens of thousands? -- who otherwise never would have considered the school.

So for anyone to deny that the basketball program has a unique role, and therefore deserves unique treatment, is simply not being honest.

The intentions of the Tribune editorial were good, because in an ideal world, sure, it would be swell if basketball players interacted more with the general student body. As many posters pointed out, however, that is unrealistic in today's college sports environment.

[brewcity77]

I grew up in Milwaukee, so I knew about Marquette, but didn't look at it seriously out of HS, largely because of the money. When I did decide, there were three main factors: name recognition of the school, family history (uncle and cousin went there), and the basketball program.

I imagine that at least 90% of our out-of-state male students first heard of Marquette because of our basketball program. Wouldn't surprise me if that number was about the same in-state.

[StillAWarrior]

I imagine that at least 90% of our out-of-state male students first heard of Marquette because of our basketball program. Wouldn't surprise me if that number was about the same in-state.

I think the single biggest factor for out of state students is the Jesuit/Catholic thing.  That's what brought me from 1500 miles away and I'd venture a guess that the out of state students have a higher percentage that are Catholic or from Catholic high schools than the in-state. Catholic high schools -- especially Jesuit high schools -- send a lot of kids to Jesuit universities.

I think that a strong sports program is very important for a university to get its name out there, but not necessarily in a specific sense that people go there because of that program,  I think that those of us on this board substantially overestimate the importance of the basketball program to the average student/alumni.  Most of the people in the local MU club (even the ones I talk to at the MU game viewing parties) think I'm a little bit nuts because I follow th e program as closely as I do.  I think those of us on this board are a very small, self-selected minority of MU students and alums.

[warriorchick]

I think that a strong sports program is very important for a university to get its name out there, but not necessarily in a specific sense that people go there because of that program,  I think that those of us on this board substantially overestimate the importance of the basketball program to the average student/alumni. 

I first heard of Marquette when they were in the NIT finals and my dad joked that I would be excommunicated if I didn't root for the Warriors.  But StillAWarrior is correct in that good basketball doesn't guarantee higher (or better quality) enrollment.  Butler, for example, actually had to undergo significant budget cuts in the 2011-2012 school year because they did not hit their enrollment targets - after back-to-back championship game appearances.  As I heard someone say, "A good team might get people onto the front porch, but they still have to walk through the door."