bucky goes down

[ChicosBailBonds]

Exhibit A why you don't play these games.  This was UWGB's Super Bowl and UW-Madison gains NOTHING from it.  UW-Madison is better off playing out of state to someone where it isn't their Super Bowl.  It just begs for these losses.

"A lot of our guys think they should be playing for [Wisconsin], and they want to prove them wrong," Kowalczyk said."

"I thought this was the next step for our program," Kowalczyk said.

Exactly, that's why you don't give them the opportunity to take that next step because it doesn't help you, it only helps them.

I'm sure Fran is saying it's great for college basketball.  He's probably also saying something really stupid about them still being the little brother or cousin or other complete bullcrap he normally spews about now.  

[VegasWarrior77]

+1
I was thinking the exact same thing!  Don't travel into a no-win situation!

[Warrior]

Congrats to UW-Green Bay! This is what makes basketball in the State of Wisconsin exciting!

[bs4173]

Hahahaha saw it on ESPN.com before coming here. If we win on Saturday, Madison is duking it out with UWM on 12/23 for 3rd best in WI.

[larryt4]

Don't scare me like that!!! At first I thought it said BUYCKS goes down.

[tower912]

Other than making us all giggle, this does nothing for us.    Bucky is going to be seriously pi$$ed on Saturday and we could get rolled even worse.   And I agree with the posters as to why scheduling games like this does nothing for us.   What did Bucky have to gain?    Look what they lost.     I understand the good-will-in-the-state-of-Wisconsin thought, but I don't agree with it.   When we finally lose to UWm, what will their (few) fans talk about for the next 50 years?

[4everwarriors]

How did they fly out  of  Madison  with 18 inches of snow and all coming down? Probably would have been better to just partcipate in the snowball fight on Bascom Hill.

[CTWarrior]

Exhibit A why you don't play these games.  

+1

Especially on the road.

[MU1984]

Cry me a river.  You play these games because they are more competitive and spirited than going up against another cupcake.  If your program is worth a crap this loss won't mean anything and your TEAM will be better served by it when they play their conference games.  If you win (which lets be honest, is what happens over 90% of the time), then it is a good win in a tough environment.  Either way, its better preperation for tough games in Jan-March than playing Little Sisters of the Poor in front of an uninterested 9,000 fans in the BC.

Lets also not forget, a loss to UWM, UWGB, UW-Whoever, is not significant when it comes to selection time or recruiting.  Any argument to the contrary is nonsense.  What is more important is how you are playing in February and March and your conference record.  These games help Marquette and Wisconsin prepare for the games that actually matter to the selection committee.  On top of that, these games matter to basketball fans in the state of Wisconsin.  Its entertaining and it helps the team improve not matter the outcome of the game.  I will take a loss to UWM and UWGB every year if it helps Marquette become a better team in March.

[mu_hilltopper]

You play these games because they are more competitive and spirited than going up against another cupcake. 

bingo.

[MR.HAYWARD]

mu 1984 and mu-hilltopper are right.  Scared little pansies avoid these games, unless you are truly a pretender you have nothing to fear in these games.  if Mu loses to UWGB or UWM and then goes on to lose a recruit to them or miss the NCAA tourney becuase of that single loss then well they dont have much of a program anyway. 

IF Wisconsn goes on to miss the tourney this loss will have nothing to do with it and like the article says everyone of those kids on GB were offered a scholie by UW they would have taken it in a heartbeat. 

At the end of the day it gives UW and MU a much better game to prepare for the confernece season than going out and blowing out some patsie by 40. 

champions fear noone ...losers would not play anyone if they had their choice.

[MUfan12]

I agree with Chicos. You don't schedule this series with road games.

Yes, they'll be jacked up to play. But would you rather play a BCS team on the road (where a loss would be more acceptable) or a Horizon League school because it's "good for the state teams?"

It's not even close in my book.

[ChicosBailBonds]

bingo.

Except that now you give up a real home and home game, you help in state programs (remember when we were the only program in the state, now we have Madison to deal with....and you want to help the other two?)

Why don't we ACT like a high major program.

The fact that Mr. Hayward agrees with you must be disconcerting.    

This is isn't about playing cupcakes, which Hayward doesn't get.  I'm all for not playing cupcakes, but that doesn't mean you reward schools in state.  There are plenty of other games to play, on the road if you wish, that accomplish the SAME THING, without helping to buildup programs in the same state.  Valpo, NIU, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, etc, etc.

Some day we'll act like an elite high major program, I hope to live long enough to see it.

[MU1984]

Except that now you give up a real home and home game

I am calling BS on this one.  We have six cupcake games to my count and we have UWM scheduled.  With UWGB in a few years, we will have five cupcake games all else equal.  We can still do an additional home and home with an out of state school in addition to the one that is expiring with NC State this year and still have four cupcakes.

There is some validity to helping out the out-of-state school argument, but a win over UW and MU is only a step in the right direction.  UWM and UWGB still have to win Horizon championships and advance in the NCAA tourney on a consistent basis to even become a blip on MU's radar.

[Hards Alumni]

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- After bringing home perhaps his biggest win since taking over at Wisconsin-Green Bay, coach Tod Kowalczyk settled in for his postgame news conference with a wry smile.


"First thing's first," he said. "Does that mean we're better than Duke?"

IMMD.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am calling BS on this one.  We have six cupcake games to my count and we have UWM scheduled.  With UWGB in a few years, we will have five cupcake games all else equal.  We can still do an additional home and home with an out of state school in addition to the one that is expiring with NC State this year and still have four cupcakes.

There is some validity to helping out the out-of-state school argument, but a win over UW and MU is only a step in the right direction.  UWM and UWGB still have to win Horizon championships and advance in the NCAA tourney on a consistent basis to even become a blip on MU's radar.

The ONLY way we can do it is by having one fewer home game than we normally have.  It's a simple math exercise, just do the math.  MU needs 18 home games....add them up.  Not hard to do.  If MU doesn't need 18 home games anymore, then you are correct that we can do it.  Otherwise we have to give up a quality home and home because we're locked in with Wisconsin as well.  And coming soon, when the tournament expands, no you will not need to just win the Horizon League because more and more of those schools are going to get in when it goes to 96 teams.  Just another reason NOT to help little brother.  

There is no long term thinking out of this administration, it's short term, "feel good" and let's hope "everyone likes us" fluffy nonsense.  We say we want to be a top tier high major program, then we should act like it.  When UCLA starts playing road games at Cal State Northridge, Loyola Marymount, UC Irvine, UC Riverside, Long Beach State I'll be convinced, but they don't for a reason.  They don't need to nor should they. 

Then there is the precedent angle.  Now MU has boxed themselves in, foolishly, to the point that if MU does lose a few of these games and wants to drop the series, the howling will be louder than ever.  There is NO WIN here.  PERIOD.  All MU does is give every opportunity to give someone a punchers chance and then when we finally fall, we're locked into this stupid thing for the next 25 years.  Again, ZERO long term thinking.

[mu_hilltopper]

Sorry, I don't buy the concept that we are "helping" UWM/GB in any material way.  They will NEVER EVER be on par with UW/MU.    While Pearl did more with less at UWM and had them on the rise, look at them today .. on the outskirts of mid-major city.

The only day MU will be competing against UWM/GB for a recruit is the day MU will have hired Mike Deane as their head coach, or if MU gets bounced down to CUSA again.

UWM and UWGB should hover under 200 in the RPI.  For that reason alone, we should play them instead of the 200s-360s we usually play.  

[MR.HAYWARD]

chicos compares it to playing a home and home with a "real team"  Thats not a fair comparison...an area in which chiocs specializes.  
it is actually avery good deal for MU..in the sense that it is not a 1:1 ratio.  Mu gets now 6 home games for 2 accorss the street.  No travel involved not as good a deal with UWGB but still a deal favorable to MU.  take a buzz up there and get 2 home gmaes where a home and home would only net us 1.  

If we start lsoing recruits to UWM and UWGB, or start no longer being perceived as the basketball powerhouse in the state, or sstart losing to them we have much bigger problems than simply scheduling these two teams and possibly losing to them.  

Chicos as always makes amountain out of a mole hill...chicken little at his finest.  Some people might use the word coward..i wont.   Lets see Crean would not play them buzz will ...i got it playing them is bad.  

With fans like chicos who needs enemies.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sorry, I don't buy the concept that we are "helping" UWM/GB in any material way.  They will NEVER EVER be on par with UW/MU.    While Pearl did more with less at UWM and had them on the rise, look at them today .. on the outskirts of mid-major city.

The only day MU will be competing against UWM/GB for a recruit is the day MU will have hired Mike Deane as their head coach, or if MU gets bounced down to CUSA again.

UWM and UWGB should hover under 200 in the RPI.  For that reason alone, we should play them instead of the 200s-360s we usually play.  

It's not necessarily about the recruits, it's about visibility, it's about market share, it's about attendance, it's about prestige, it's about being "controlled" (in terms of scheduling) by sources that are not internal.  In essence, we are giving up some sovereignty on this.  I know a lot of you don't get it right now, and that's because we haven't lost yet.

But here's the deal, if we lose one or two of these games and MU goes through another dry spell....let's face it, in the last 30 years we were more down than up, then MU loses more and more control over their schedule, etc.  They're locked into playing these guys because getting rid of the series would raise the ire of the media, the locals, etc.   

So this isn't about recruits, but much broader picture which is why you don't want to help little brother.  We are painting ourselves into a corner that we don't need to do.  It's foolish.  No one is saying that UWM is going to be better than MU, all we're saying is we only complicate matters by helping them out in terms of press coverage, market share in the city, etc, etc.  If we were a business, the CEO would be fired for this.

[MU1984]

Chicos - Where your argument falls flat on my end is that we have a deal with two teams, two games a year.  In my eyes, I see this as a swap for the UMES and Centenary's of the world not a swap for NC State or Arizona a few years back.  You make it seem like we will now not do a home/home with a Pac-10, ACC, SEC, etc team where I don't see how that can't happen amd how this is handcuffing our scheduling going forward. 

Also, I am pretty sure these deals do not get done without Buzz's approval and his encouragment so knocking the admin is probably not the right target.  No matter who the AD is, when it comes to basketball scheduling, the buck will always stop with the HC.

[chapman]

Sorry, I don't buy the concept that we are "helping" UWM/GB in any material way.  They will NEVER EVER be on par with UW/MU.    While Pearl did more with less at UWM and had them on the rise, look at them today .. on the outskirts of mid-major city.

The only day MU will be competing against UWM/GB for a recruit is the day MU will have hired Mike Deane as their head coach, or if MU gets bounced down to CUSA again.

UWM and UWGB should hover under 200 in the RPI.  For that reason alone, we should play them instead of the 200s-360s we usually play.  

Agree.  We've seen that despite the predictions otherwise that a UWM game not on a weeknight in the middle of a blizzard draws much better attendance than bringing in Southwest Wyoming Tech.  Nothing wrong with having a bus ride to the Resch to let the fans there see us play.  Whether we play across the street or up in Green Bay there's very little homecourt advantage as half the crowd will still be MU fans, and a road win against a 200 RPI team does more than a home win against a 350 RPI team.  Last I checked the "howling" doesn't add any more than the one loss to the record.  Why be afraid of playing these teams?  Is it really less shameful to run and hide or to drop one against them in a year where they field a good team and we're having a down year?  We might have to take a page from the Badger spin and realize that the sun still comes up the next day if you lose a game.

[MUfan12]

Chicos - Where your argument falls flat on my end is that we have a deal with two teams, two games a year.  In my eyes, I see this as a swap for the UMES and Centenary's of the world not a swap for NC State or Arizona a few years back.  

And this is where I stop reading. UMES and Centenary WILL NOT ASK FOR A RETURN GAME! Just about any mid-major deal that gives a road game away is bad business for MU. Same with Valpo, Oakland, etc.

The reason you give road games to mid-majors is to tap into recruiting areas. I think recruiting the South had quite a bit to do with Georgetown travelling to Tulane and Savannah State. We already have a presence in WI.

I'd much rather see a 2 for 1 with Santa Clara and a school in Texas.

[Golden Avalanche]

Need huge efforts on Hughes and Leuer defensively. Those two are the guys who can take over a game.

Hughes and Leuer both had near career games last night. They certainly can take over a game -- and still lose.

Good thing for their opponents is the rest of the team is filled with over-hyped recruits who have rarely been influential during big games and five 6'10'' white guys with crew-cuts who never take the towel off their left shoulder.

Of course, MU will still lose.

[MU1984]

And this is where I stop reading. UMES and Centenary WILL NOT ASK FOR A RETURN GAME! Any mid-major deal that gives a road game away is bad business for MU. Same with Valpo, Oakland, etc.

The reason you give road games to mid-majors is to tap into recruiting areas. I think recruiting the South had quite a bit to do with Georgetown travelling to Tulane and Savannah State. We already have a presence in WI.

I'd much rather see a 2 for 1 with Santa Clara and a school in Texas.

Got it.

[downtown85]

The ONLY way we can do it is by having one fewer home game than we normally have.  It's a simple math exercise, just do the math.  MU needs 18 home games....add them up.  Not hard to do.  .

I haven't taken sides on this issue yet.  I am most interested in the economics behind this.  It sounds like a wash for MU to do 2 for 1s with UWM and UWGB.  Let's assume that we sign 2-1s with 3 cupcakes within a bus drive away (e.g. 3rd being Loyola Chicago) so every year we play 1 game less at the Bradley Center.  That would mean we have 17 home games.  Let's assume the net revenue (including BC rental) for a home game is $250,000 before buy costs.  (about $170,000 after if we assume it costs $80,000 to host a buy game now). I don't know where those numbers come from but I saw it posted earlier and let's just say it's that. That would mean if we get about $510,000 for the 3 buy games or $500,000 for 2 two for ones.  However, let's assume that more tickets are sold and more fans attend the games at the BC because of the interest in the games.  That should easily make up the difference.  I am not sure how TV revenues work in this case and whether or not that would influence the economics very much.

This only leaves non-economic factors.   I am pretty sure UWM or UWGB will never be anything more than a mid-major. There is very little reputational upside in playing any cupcake, especially if they beat you.  However, we still play a bunch of them at home each year.  Playing on their court every third year doesn't frighten me.

So I don't see what the fuss is about.  Economically it is neutral and reputationally I kind of miss the point of the critics.  Will it make for more interesting basketball?  I'd rather see us play Northern Prarie State A&M and win by 70