Can Wojo finally...

[Galway Eagle]

I understand your position.  Here is what you aren't taking into consideration:

Dawson is playing in the NBA G-League, which, if you look at rosters are filled with guys who were all very good college players.

Dawson arrived at Liberty while they were rated 333 the year before he became eligible.  They improved to 279 his Junior year.  211 his Senior Year.

Teams played largely a Box and 1 defense on Dawson as a senior, as he was the focal point of the team as a Junior and had a strong Junior year.

Junior year stats:  26% Usage.  55% eFG.  20% DRebound Rate.  25.9 Assist RAte.  One negative:  24.9% TO Rate.

The team's record with Derrick at the helm speaks for itself.  Great kid.  Hard worker.  Kind of kid you'd want to date your daughter.  BUT.  He was brutal as a 35 minute per game PG.

I'll stop here, and won't further engage on the topic as I know some here get frustrated/maddened.  I firmly believe, however, it is a great misrepresentation to suggest Wojo walked into an empty cupboard and trainwreck of a program.

 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ugh.  Again?  It was a very talented roster inherited that included:  Deonte Burton, Todd Mayo, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, Duane Wilson, Luke Fischer, JuJuan Johnson, and John Dawson.  Absolutely NO way to win with that empty cupboard, sh$thole of a Top 100/Top 50 recruit cupboard.  All of Deonte, Steve, Luke, JJJ, Duane, Dawson went on to have solid careers.   Wojo chose to kick Mayo off the team - his prerogative.  Buzz was able to make it work for 3 years with Todd.

Now, you know how I feel about Derrick:  No teams stands a snow balls chance in hell of winning if you choose to play Derrick Wilson as your PG for 35 minutes per game - but that was Wojo's choice...he had both Duane and Carlino at his disposal.  Buzz doing it the year prior was his big F-You to admin on the way out the door - granted Dawson wasn't as good of option as having Duane or Carlino.  Anybody with a fleck of intuition could see Buzz was clearly off and checked out his last year at MU.  And sure as sh$t, 4-days after the season was over he inked the deal to go to VaTech.

Got it. You can't find one.

A few alternative facts I'd like to address:

Mayo was not Wojo's prerogative. He was off the team even if Buzz had stayed or if Wojo had wanted him.

Of all the players you listed, only Deonte went on to be a high caliber player, and he transferred because of his mother's death, outside of Wojo's control.

Steve had a very good senior season for a low major program after getting surgery on his shoulder. John Dawson was an average starter at an even lower major program.

Buzz couldn't anything valuable out of Juan Anderson in three years so I'm not sure why you included him. He was a necessary starter on a team that barely cracked the top 100.

Luke and JJJ ended up being solid players as you put it. But even as seniors the best they amounted to was being starters (not even the best starters) on a 10 seed team. Luke also was repeatedly affected by shoulder injuries.

Duane had great potential, could have been the other high caliber player along with Deonte. Unfortunately, his legs exploded repeatedly and it impacted his game drastically. Duane showed his potential early in the season here at TAMU...and it waned as his legs started to wear down, eventually ending his season (which I still think Coach Kennedy is to blame for that. Unacceptable how handled that injury). Nothing Wojo could do about that either.

And no one called any of those players "sh*tholes" as you put it. They just were who they were.

And Buzz was not giving the administration "a middle finger" as you put it by playing Derrick. The reality is that Duane was redshirtting because of injury (and Junior Cadougan) and Derrick was better than Dawson. There were no other PGs on the roster. His only option was to ride Derrick. Which falls on him for poor roster construction.

[GGGG]

Ugh.  Again?  It was a very talented roster inherited that included:  Deonte Burton, Todd Mayo, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, Duane Wilson, Luke Fischer, JuJuan Johnson, and John Dawson. 

So the same roster (minus Fischer, plus Jamil, Davante and Otule) that Buzz had the year before?  You know...the one he didn't even make the NIT with?

OK sport.

[mu03eng]

Anybody with a fleck of intuition could see Buzz was clearly off and checked out his last year at MU.  And sure as sh$t, 4-days after the season was over he inked the deal to go to VaTech.

Buzz was out the door the year before. Having a roster crater is at least a two year process (See Gard, Greg) and Buzz was very close to leaving for SMU. He was coasting for a number of years and that's what put us where we were when Wojo took over.

[BM1090]

I understand your position.  Here is what you aren't taking into consideration:

Dawson is playing in the NBA G-League, which, if you look at rosters are filled with guys who were all very good college players.

Dawson arrived at Liberty while they were rated 333 the year before he became eligible.  They improved to 279 his Junior year.  211 his Senior Year.

Teams played largely a Box and 1 defense on Dawson as a senior, as he was the focal point of the team as a Junior and had a strong Junior year.

Junior year stats:  26% Usage.  55% eFG.  20% DRebound Rate.  25.9 Assist RAte.  One negative:  24.9% TO Rate.

The team's record with Derrick at the helm speaks for itself.  Great kid.  Hard worker.  Kind of kid you'd want to date your daughter.  BUT.  He was brutal as a 35 minute per game PG.

I'll stop here, and won't further engage on the topic as I know some here get frustrated/maddened.  I firmly believe, however, it is a great misrepresentation to suggest Wojo walked into an empty cupboard and trainwreck of a program.

You make a lot of fair points here. But you lose credibility with lies like the bolded. I watched some Liberty games that year. And there was never a box and 1 employed. Ever.

[MomofMUltiples]

no, No, NO!!!!  I refuse to have my Scoop ruined once again by a serial poster with an ish on Derrick Wilson (who did, actually, date my daughter and is a helluva guy). Especially not in a thread that has a completely different subject so I can't avoid the fight. Mods, please lock this thread.  And if you are not going to ban Ners (again), please have a stern talk with him as to what will happen if he ever mentions Derrick's name again.

Thank you.

[Floorslapper]

no, No, NO!!!!  I refuse to have my Scoop ruined once again by a serial poster with an ish on Derrick Wilson (who did, actually, date my daughter and is a helluva guy). Especially not in a thread that has a completely different subject so I can't avoid the fight. Mods, please lock this thread.  And if you are not going to ban Ners (again), please have a stern talk with him as to what will happen if he ever mentions Derrick's name again.

Thank you.

LOL - So that explains it.  Understandable.  Have no doubt Derrick is a helluva a guy.

Let's get it back on topic Mom:  Did you think that in Year 4 of Wojo's tenure he'd be the only coach in the conference to NOT achieve 3 conference wins in a row?  Thankfully he did guide us to the NCAA last year getting major contributions from the empty cupboard he was left with.

[Floorslapper]

You make a lot of fair points here. But you lose credibility with lies like the bolded. I watched some Liberty games that year. And there was never a box and 1 employed. Ever.

Not a lie.  Was employed frequently Eagle.

[mu03eng]

Did you think that in Year 4 of Wojo's tenure he'd be the only coach in the conference to NOT achieve 3 conference wins in a row? 

Yeah we finished pretty low on this metric in KenPom

[Its DJOver]

LOL - So that explains it.  Understandable.  Have no doubt Derrick is a helluva a guy.

Let's get it back on topic Mom:  Did you think that in Year 4 of Wojo's tenure he'd be the only coach in the conference to NOT achieve 3 conference wins in a row?  Thankfully he did guide us to the NCAA last year getting major contributions from the empty cupboard he was left with.

Wojo is not the only coach to not have gotten a three game winning streak in the BEast.
Wojo will be fine, the program will be fine, move along.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I understand your position.  Here is what you aren't taking into consideration:

Dawson is playing in the NBA G-League, which, if you look at rosters are filled with guys who were all very good college players.

Dawson arrived at Liberty while they were rated 333 the year before he became eligible.  They improved to 279 his Junior year.  211 his Senior Year.

Teams played largely a Box and 1 defense on Dawson as a senior, as he was the focal point of the team as a Junior and had a strong Junior year.

Junior year stats:  26% Usage.  55% eFG.  20% DRebound Rate.  25.9 Assist RAte.  One negative:  24.9% TO Rate.

The team's record with Derrick at the helm speaks for itself.  Great kid.  Hard worker.  Kind of kid you'd want to date your daughter.  BUT.  He was brutal as a 35 minute per game PG.

I'll stop here, and won't further engage on the topic as I know some here get frustrated/maddened.  I firmly believe, however, it is a great misrepresentation to suggest Wojo walked into an empty cupboard and trainwreck of a program.

Seriously? This again? Make it stop.

[skianth16]

Wojo is not the only coach to not have gotten a three game winning streak in the BEast.
Wojo will be fine, the program will be fine, move along.

You're right, but I'd prefer to avoid falling into classifications with Depaul whenever possible. Get the W on Wednesday and check this off the "things a winning coach should be doing" list. Simple as that.

[MomofMUltiples]

# of wins in a row doesn't really matter.  Win percentage (or number, depending on how you look at it) and win quality determines post-season playing opportunity. 

[Its DJOver]

You're right, but I'd prefer to avoid falling into classifications with Depaul whenever possible. Get the W on Wednesday and check this off the "things a winning coach should be doing" list. Simple as that.

Agreed, I'm just trying to keep a level head and stay calm, as people on both sides of the argument seem content on simply escalating things.

P.S. the coach I was referencing does not coach at DePaul, although he is in the Hall of Fame.

[skianth16]

# of wins in a row doesn't really matter.  Win percentage (or number, depending on how you look at it) and win quality determines post-season playing opportunity.

There's no award for winning X number of games in a row, but consistency is typically considered a good thing. Good teams tend to not drop unexpected games to the lower-tier teams in the conference, so striving to be able to be at that level does inevitably require a team to put together a winning streak or two throughout the conference schedule. We aren't a bad team and Wojo isn't a bad coach because we haven't won 3 in a row, but that stat does show that we probably need to be more consistent in order to improve our record.

[fjm]

LOL - So that explains it.  Understandable.  Have no doubt Derrick is a helluva a guy.

Let's get it back on topic Mom:  Did you think that in Year 4 of Wojo's tenure he'd be the only coach in the conference to NOT achieve 3 conference wins in a row?  Thankfully he did guide us to the NCAA last year getting major contributions from the empty cupboard he was left with.

Still don't get it ners.

What does t matter that he hasn't won 3 in a row? He could literally go 2-1 (win-win-loss) every three games and still go 12-6. 3 in a row doesn't matter.

[Floorslapper]

Still don't get it ners.

What does t matter that he hasn't won 3 in a row? He could literally go 2-1 (win-win-loss) every three games and still go 12-6. 3 in a row doesn't matter.

It is just a little troubling that 4-years in, we are the only program who hasn’t won 3 conference games in a row. We’ve had multiple 3+ game losing streaks, however.

I understand your point of you go 2-1 all conference season long you are 12-6. I’d gladly take that level of consistency. Just a bit frustrated that we’ve yet to be able to string together a good run of Big East wins under Wojo. Seems every time we seem to take a step forward, we take a crushing defeat to set us back.

The guy is recruiting really well and we are a fun team to watch. I’m pleased in that level. Just wish I saw more* progress as an in-game tactician/strategist.

[fjm]

It is just a little troubling that 4-years in, we are the only program who hasn’t won 3 conference games in a row. We’ve had multiple 3+ game losing streaks, however.

I understand your point of you go 2-1 all conference season long you are 12-6. I’d gladly take that level of consistency. Just a bit frustrated that we’ve yet to be able to string together a good run of Big East wins under Wojo. Seems every time we seem to take a step forward, we take a crushing defeat to set us back.

The guy is recruiting really well and we are a fun team to watch. I’m pleased in that level. Just wish I saw more* progress as an in-game tactician/strategist.

Ok. Very fair reasoning. I can't blame that thought process at all man. Yeah it can definitely be frustrating.

[Its DJOver]

It is just a little troubling that 4-years in, we are the only program who hasn’t won 3 conference games in a row. We’ve had multiple 3+ game losing streaks, however.

I understand your point of you go 2-1 all conference season long you are 12-6. I’d gladly take that level of consistency. Just a bit frustrated that we’ve yet to be able to string together a good run of Big East wins under Wojo. Seems every time we seem to take a step forward, we take a crushing defeat to set us back.

The guy is recruiting really well and we are a fun team to watch. I’m pleased in that level. Just wish I saw more* progress as an in-game tactician/strategist.

Good run doesn't have to mean long run.  Beating two top 10 ten teams back to back, one on the road is a good run, just not one that was sustained very long.  How many programs have beaten two top 10 teams in a week since Wojo was hired.  Since St. Johns did it this year does it mean that its easy to do.  When you take completely arbitrary standards, you will be able to find something that 95% of teams haven't done.

[skianth16]

Good run doesn't have to mean long run.  Beating two top 10 ten teams back to back, one on the road is a good run, just not one that was sustained very long.  How many programs have beaten two top 10 teams in a week since Wojo was hired.  Since St. Johns did it this year does it mean that its easy to do.  When you take completely arbitrary standards, you will be able to find something that 95% of teams haven't done.

I think the point of the 3 win streak is that it's not a very high bar to set for consistency. Sure, 3 games is a bit arbitrary, but it is something we would normally think of as being a piece of cake for MU or other quality programs. It's not a huge milestone necessarily, but it does show how up and down we've been the last few years. Like a lot of other stats, it's more of a talking point than a truly meaningful metric.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

LOL - So that explains it.  Understandable.  Have no doubt Derrick is a helluva a guy.

Let's get it back on topic Mom:  Did you think that in Year 4 of Wojo's tenure he'd be the only coach in the conference to NOT achieve 3 conference wins in a row?  Thankfully he did guide us to the NCAA last year getting major contributions from the empty cupboard he was left with.

Last year there were 3 contributors on the team that remained from Wojo's first year. They had developed over three seasons. And somehow you're trying to equate that to the overall talent that was on the team in 14-15.

Hilarious.

[jesmu84]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!

Nice

[mu03eng]

I just wanted to say Wojo's done a helluva job this year.  The cupboard is practically bare, given that there are only two top 100 players on the roster. Yet Wojo has this group right in the bubble mix.

Wojo has also done a great job coaching up those two top 100 players. After all, Howard was ranked lower than Johnson, Wilson, and Burton. Hauser ranked lower than Cohen, Anderson, Jones, and Williams.  But in just two years, Wojo turned Howard into a 2nd team all-conference performer and Hauser is very good as well.

The growth Wojo has shown as a coach is tremendous.  Year 1, the cupboard was overflowing with talent and MU went 13-19, 4-14 in BE.  But now, with barely any talent on the roster, 18-12, 9-9 BE, and in the tourney mix.  This upward trend has me really excited. Imagine the results once Wojo can restock the cupboard!