Congratulations to Buzz

[Tugg Speedman]

With today's victory over Pitt, Buzz has now beaten the other 15 BE teams at least once, and did it in less than four seasons.

[JTBMU7]

nice.
anyone out there feel like looking up some records and seeing how that compares to other BIG EAST coaches?

[Tugg Speedman]

Crean cannot make this claim, he never beat Syracuse.

[Untucked]

Crean is a douche bag

[THEultimateWARRIOR]

Crean is a douche bag

agreed. But he is a great coach.

[77ncaachamps]

I'd rather like to congratulate him on making second half adjustments and finding ways to beat the zone.

[jsglow]

One of Buzz' better coaching jobs.  He's getting a good handle on what his various combinations can and can't do on the floor.

[john31]

One thing about Buzz that never really gets mentioned is his improvement as a coach year over year. I think he is the type of person that will be demanding of himself and will always be trying to get better at what he does. Maybe the improvements are not as big or do not come as fast as the fan would like but over time he is improving. I would love to see the guys at Cracked Sidewalks to a little comparison between Buzz, at this point in his career, and some other successful coaches. BTW, I am not a Crean hater but I always thought his game coaching skills were not very good. I think Buzz is at least as good as Crean is now and over time will leave him in his dust.

[4everwarriors]

agreed. But he is a great coach.

Sure, just ask him. He'll be more than happy to tell you.

[Hoopaloop]

Crean cannot make this claim, he never beat Syracuse.

Crean never coached 4 years in the Big East either so we will never know what would have happened. 

I'm rather shocked yesterday's game was as close at it was.  Pittsburgh lost most recently by 20+ or so at home to Rutgers. They lost to DePaul already, Long Beach State and Wagner. Pitt had a shot to tie the game if DG doesn't get that rebound.  We sure seem to like letting marginal teams hang around this year:  Villanova, Pitt, Norfolk State, Washington.  Need to squash these teams when we have them down by double digits.

[Hoopaloop]

One thing about Buzz that never really gets mentioned is his improvement as a coach year over year. I think he is the type of person that will be demanding of himself and will always be trying to get better at what he does. Maybe the improvements are not as big or do not come as fast as the fan would like but over time he is improving. I would love to see the guys at Cracked Sidewalks to a little comparison between Buzz, at this point in his career, and some other successful coaches. BTW, I am not a Crean hater but I always thought his game coaching skills were not very good. I think Buzz is at least as good as Crean is now and over time will leave him in his dust.

Over time my prediction would be IU will achieve much more under Crean then we do under Buzz.  Crean will get better players and better players win more games.  IU doesn't even have that great of talent this year other than Zeller, but they are much better than last year.  Their next three recruiting classes are ridiculously good and light years ahead of ours.  As a result, hard to see Crean trailing in Buzz's dust because he will have better players than MU does.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Never would have guessed that was going to be your prediction. I predict Marquette will play Louisville tomorrow at the Bradley Center.

[jtrash37]

Never would have guessed that was going to be your prediction. I predict Marquette will play Louisville tomorrow at the Bradley Center.

Well played!

[dgies9156]

Over time my prediction would be IU will achieve much more under Crean then we do under Buzz.  Crean will get better players and better players win more games.  IU doesn't even have that great of talent this year other than Zeller, but they are much better than last year.  Their next three recruiting classes are ridiculously good and light years ahead of ours.  As a result, hard to see Crean trailing in Buzz's dust because he will have better players than MU does.

For now, TV Tommy's star is crashing back to earth. He lost to a winless Goofy Gopher team at home and today, Ohio State extracted sweet revenge.

He will probably do well at Hoosierland. I wish him well, just not TOO well. As much as I hate the guy now, he did recruit DWade and he did get us into the Final Four.

I still think Buzz is going to do very well. He's recruited at Marquette generally as well or better than TV Tommy and as he matures as a coach, Buzz will add excitement and hopefully accomplishment. Besides, Marquette is a better school!!!!!

[forgetful]

One thing about Buzz is he seems to be willing to adapt his strategies and game play to the team.  Part of that is out of necessity of different team makeups (3 amigos vs Cubilan and Acker), but even so that is strange amongst D1 coaches.  A good example is Ryan at UW, even the faithful fans were getting frustrated this year in that he will not change his style of play no matter what.

I think Buzz will continue on an upward trajectory.

[cheebs09]

Hasn't IU had a few recruiting classes ranked the last few years? To say they have Zeller and no one else is a bit of a stretch. Plus, he has some juniors and seniors in the program now (at least I think, haven't looked closely at their roster). I think Crean will have them as a team that is usually in the top 15-20 with some very good years. Kind of what we were with the 3 Amigos. How he does with their next batch of recruits will be telling due to that being a great class.

I wouldn't trade Buzz for Crean though. I think Buzz's in game coaching has been a welcomed surprise. He makes some head-scratching moves at times, but all coaches do. He has been able to adjust his game plans and make some changes on the fly in games to spark some turn arounds. The one place I think Crean was great in was preparing game plans. However, if that initial game plan was ineffective, things got real ugly.

[MerrittsMustache]

Crean never coached 4 years in the Big East either so we will never know what would have happened. 

I'm rather shocked yesterday's game was as close at it was.  Pittsburgh lost most recently by 20+ or so at home to Rutgers. They lost to DePaul already, Long Beach State and Wagner. Pitt had a shot to tie the game if DG doesn't get that rebound.  We sure seem to like letting marginal teams hang around this year:  Villanova, Pitt, Norfolk State, Washington.  Need to squash these teams when we have them down by double digits.

MU simply needs to beat those "marginal" teams and they have. As Buzz once said himself, it's not a beauty contest.

I guess if you need to get your complaining fix though.

[jesmu84]

Crean never coached 4 years in the Big East either so we will never know what would have happened. 

I'm rather shocked yesterday's game was as close at it was.  Pittsburgh lost most recently by 20+ or so at home to Rutgers. They lost to DePaul already, Long Beach State and Wagner. Pitt had a shot to tie the game if DG doesn't get that rebound.  We sure seem to like letting marginal teams hang around this year:  Villanova, Pitt, Norfolk State, Washington.  Need to squash these teams when we have them down by double digits.

Is there a reason you seek out threads that include IU/Crean As well, you frequently inject something about Marquette and their deficiences (without ever pointing out positives). You can post what you want, I'm just trying to understand your motivation. You certainly don't run to defend Marquette anywhere that I notice.

[4everwarriors]

Crean's game plans vs Kansas, MSU, WMU, Tulsa, et al were beauties as was his in game decision making. Players like Wade and Zeller can make any putz a coaching genius. Crean excels at self-promoting while running a seemingly clean program, and selling the sizzle. All this while fooling administrators, boosters, and most of the remaining flock.

[Golden Avalanche]

Crean's game plans vs Kansas, MSU, WMU, Tulsa, et al were beauties as was his in game decision making. Players like Wade and Zeller can make any putz a coaching genius. Crean excels at self-promoting while running a seemingly clean program, and selling the sizzle. All this while fooling administrators, boosters, and most of the remaining flock.

Every coach can have bombs. Witness Buzz in late February last season.

What's really interesting is that you've started the new chapter in discounting anything Crean achieves by turning him from a one-trick pony into a two-trick pony.

I imagine in a few years, he'll turn into a three-trick pony.

[Lennys Tap]

Is there a reason you seek out threads that include IU/Crean As well, you frequently inject something about Marquette and their deficiences (without ever pointing out positives).

Yes.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Good Lord.

Take it to the IU boards, gentlemen.

[77ncaachamps]

I for one miss Crean.

He had a knack for signing sons of coaches.

And white kids who could shoot.

[Hoopaloop]

Is there a reason you seek out threads that include IU/Crean As well, you frequently inject something about Marquette and their deficiences (without ever pointing out positives). You can post what you want, I'm just trying to understand your motivation. You certainly don't run to defend Marquette anywhere that I notice.

Buzz is doing an outstanding job. Didn't see the reason to bring in Crean into it especially when the logic is flawed and one guy had more years as coach and than the other.  One could easily also say that Crean never finished worse than 5th in the Big East, let alone the lower division.  Crean got us a Final Four, Buzz has given us a Sweet 16.  Buzz's squad had us in the papers for off the court issues that put the university in great embarrassment, Crean did not.  So on and so forth.  What is the point?  These comparisons are stupid.  Different coaches, different men, different styles.  Some folks seemingly just can't go 10 minutes without complimenting our current coach without digging on the other one.  Makes you wonder where the Rick Majerus and Kevin O'Neil threads are since they left MU as well.   "It's Tennessee, It's Tennessee" and "It's the Asst. Coach of the Bucks, It's the Asst. Coach of the Bucks"  

[jesmu84]

Buzz is doing an outstanding job. Didn't see the reason to bring in Crean into it especially when the logic is flawed and one guy had more years as coach and the other.  Some folks seemingly just can't go 10 minutes without complimenting our current coach without digging on the other one.  Makes you wonder where the Rick Majerus and Kevin O'Neil threads are since they left MU as well.   "It's Tennessee, It's Tennessee" and "It's the Asst. Coach of the Bucks, It's the Asst. Coach of the Bucks"   

Ha. Lots of truth in that post. I think Crean comes up more than the others due to him being the most recent departure, the manner in which he left, and his higher level of national prominence.

[Hoopaloop]

For now, TV Tommy's star is crashing back to earth. He lost to a winless Goofy Gopher team at home and today, Ohio State extracted sweet revenge.

He will probably do well at Hoosierland. I wish him well, just not TOO well. As much as I hate the guy now, he did recruit DWade and he did get us into the Final Four.

I still think Buzz is going to do very well. He's recruited at Marquette generally as well or better than TV Tommy and as he matures as a coach, Buzz will add excitement and hopefully accomplishment. Besides, Marquette is a better school!!!!!

We can all pray you are right, but looking at who he has coming in down there is a juggernaut in the making.  Crean is probably right now a top 5 candidate for National Coach of the Year whether any of my Boiler or MU friends want to hear it.  They were not supposed to be anything better than 8th in the Big Ten and they are well beyond most people's predictions.

IU is a better school than MU.  More importantly, PU is a better school than IU.  

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+7

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+8

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+9

[Hoopaloop]

Hasn't IU had a few recruiting classes ranked the last few years? To say they have Zeller and no one else is a bit of a stretch. Plus, he has some juniors and seniors in the program now (at least I think, haven't looked closely at their roster). I think Crean will have them as a team that is usually in the top 15-20 with some very good years. Kind of what we were with the 3 Amigos. How he does with their next batch of recruits will be telling due to that being a great class.

I wouldn't trade Buzz for Crean though. I think Buzz's in game coaching has been a welcomed surprise. He makes some head-scratching moves at times, but all coaches do. He has been able to adjust his game plans and make some changes on the fly in games to spark some turn arounds. The one place I think Crean was great in was preparing game plans. However, if that initial game plan was ineffective, things got real ugly.

IU hasn't had a top 25 ranked recruiting class since Crean's first real class at IU from my recollection (2009)

2011 No top 25 class http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1234324#rank
2010 No top 25 class  http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1088659#rank
2009 Ranked 11th  http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=985973#rank
 

This year's team is essentially last year's with Zeller.  He's a stud, but he (TC) got him there and that's half of coaching in college hoops.  Some would argue more like 75%.  This idea by some people that he shouldn't be given a hat tip for bringing in good players is bizzaro world.  IU's class next year is top 5 (Rivals has them at #2) (PU is about 24th) and the year after that could be top 15 depending who they get. 

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1303590


I would like to see MU land a top 25 class, but it has been awhile. TC hit a ceiling at MU.  You can do more at IU than you can at MU.  This is simple reality.  The state of Indiana and the Chicago area are ripe with so much talent but MU has a hard time going into Indiana to get that talent.  Crean was the last one to do it with DJ.  Chicago we still have players come from.  The best Wisconsin players we split with Wisconsin it seems, but they don't always pan out (early returns on Vander as one example).

[Tugg Speedman]

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1303590


I would like to see MU land a top 25 class, but it has been awhile. TC hit a ceiling at MU.  You can do more at IU than you can at MU.  This is simple reality.  The state of Indiana and the Chicago area are ripe with so much talent but MU has a hard time going into Indiana to get that talent.  Crean was the last one to do it with DJ.  Chicago we still have players come from.  The best Wisconsin players we split with Wisconsin it seems, but they don't always pan out (early returns on Vander as one example).

Chicos,

Thanks for reminding me why I never read the second page of a post.  I started this as a congrats to Buzz for beating the other 15 BE teams and you hijacked it into a pissing match about college rankings and IU.

In keeping with this thread being about Buzz and MU, I'll correct you on one thing.

The last time MU had a top 25 class was two years (current sophomores) when MU was #17.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2010&classmonth=5&rank=17&viewmore=yes&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2010%26classmonth%3d5%26rank%3d17%26viewmore%3dyes

Before that was the year before, 2009 (current juniors) when they were #14

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2009&classmonth=6&rank=14&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2009%26classmonth%3d6%26rank%3d14

Both of those were Buzz classes.  And, save the "these are ESPN and they suck whereas rivals is better."  You are just flat wrong in your statement I would like to see MU land a top 25 class, but it has been awhile.  You selectively picked your stats with the sole purpose of pissing people off.

But one thing I agree with, TC did hit a ceiling at MU.  Buzz has raised it.

[tower912]

Please stop quoting Hoopaloop.   The ignore feature is far less useful when the fanboy is quoted. 

[Hoopaloop]

Chicos,

Thanks for reminding me why I never read the second page of a post.  I started this as a congrats to Buzz for beating the other 15 BE teams and you hijacked it into a pissing match about college rankings and IU.

In keeping with this thread being about Buzz and MU, I'll correct you on one thing.

The last time MU had a top 25 class was two years (current sophomores) when MU was #17.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2010&classmonth=5&rank=17&viewmore=yes&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2010%26classmonth%3d5%26rank%3d17%26viewmore%3dyes

Before that was the year before, 2009 (current juniors) when they were #14

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2009&classmonth=6&rank=14&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2009%26classmonth%3d6%26rank%3d14

Both of those were Buzz classes.  And, save the "these are ESPN and they suck whereas rivals is better."  You are just flat wrong in your statement I would like to see MU land a top 25 class, but it has been awhile.  You selectively picked your stats with the sole purpose of pissing people off.

But one thing I agree with, TC did hit a ceiling at MU.  Buzz has raised it.

I'm not Chicos.  That was made clear I though a few weeks ago.  If I am able to find his post on the subject, I will.  He made the suggestion that we get together (those of us in Chicago) and it makes sense.  I'll bring the camera, you can admit on the video what a douche you are and apologize to Scoop, Chicos, myself and everyone else here.  You are the worst kind of fan.  The one that takes pleasure in other teams losing.  In the last few days you have exemplified it in your own postings, like a 12 year old.

I don't have access to ESPN Insider so how would I know what ESPN ranked any of the classes?  The public information that is out, rivals (a Recruiting website known for one thing, recruiting.  ESPN is not) says otherwise.  Rivals built their reputation on recruiting information.  ESPN certainly did not.

No, you hjacked your own thread with some stupid comment about Crean can't claim this as if it matters. 
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=29778.msg345330#msg345330


Then on the Superbar you give all of us Bears fans a bad name with your terrible post about the Packers yesterday.  How lame and stupid you make all of us feel by stating we won as many playoff games as the Packers.  We didn't even make it and got beat by the Pack twice this year.   
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=29796.msg345561#msg345561

You also had to start another post over there about IU losing.  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=29739.0  How insecure are you? 

[jmayer1]

I'm not Chicos.  That was made clear I though a few weeks ago.  If I am able to find his post on the subject, I will.  He made the suggestion that we get together (those of us in Chicago) and it makes sense.  I'll bring the camera, you can admit on the video what a douche you are and apologize to Scoop, Chicos, myself and everyone else here.  You are the worst kind of fan.  The one that takes pleasure in other teams losing.  In the last few days you have exemplified it in your own postings, like a 12 year old.

I don't have access to ESPN Insider so how would I know what ESPN ranked any of the classes?  The public information that is out, rivals (a Recruiting website known for one thing, recruiting.  ESPN is not) says otherwise.  Rivals built their reputation on recruiting information.  ESPN certainly did not.

Personally, I think suggesting people get together is a little creepy, but maybe that's just me. People mockingly call you Chicos because you two have basically the exact same talking points.

Rivals had MU in its top 25 classes in '09 and '10.

[Hoopaloop]

Found it

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=29197.msg340861#msg340861

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm not Chicos.  That was made clear I though a few weeks ago.  If I am able to find his post on the subject, I will.  He made the suggestion that we get together (those of us in Chicago) and it makes sense.  I'll bring the camera, you can admit on the video what a douche you are and apologize to Scoop, Chicos, myself and everyone else here.  You are the worst kind of fan.  The one that takes pleasure in other teams losing.  In the last few days you have exemplified it in your own postings, like a 12 year old.

Actually, you are the worst kind of fan.  You know, the kind that belittles every accomplishment of the team you root for.  The kind that +1's arguably the most idiotic thread that's ever been written on Scoop (Vander's infamous "Slap of Five") only to keep the negativity flowing 11 days after the last post.  The kind that posts incorrect "Facts" to support his points.  

Looks like Chicos let you down when he told you what to post this time, huh?

[Hoopaloop]

Actually, you are the worst kind of fan.  You know, the kind that belittles every accomplishment of the team you root for.  The kind that +1's arguably the most idiotic thread that's ever been written on Scoop (Vander's infamous "Slap of Five") only to keep the negativity flowing 11 days after the last post.  The kind that posts incorrect "Facts" to support his points.  

Looks like Chicos let you down when he told you what to post this time, huh?

People are still talking about Vander not high fiving, including today.  Did not see you come down on them.  Ners is right and it was not an idiotic thread.  I stated at the end of last season the things I was hearing about Vander on campus and they are consistent with what was stated just in the last few days.  He is not well liked on campus because of how he acts and he clearly doesn't act like a teammate on the court.  His actions speak for themselves.  It was not just that game, there are others.  Go back and watch the video.  He needs to get his anger under control and do better with his classmates off the court.  If this troubles you that MU students are saying this, then by all means call them out.  Let's call them liars like so many here did about the women assaulted by some MU athletes.  After all, it would be par for the course to rip on our student body rather than dare question the actions of some of the players.    

I haven't spoken to Chicos in weeks, that is if speaking to someone includes an email communication.  I haven't actually spoken to him with words (audible) in months. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

People are still talking about Vander not high fiving, including today.  Did not see you come down on them.  Ners is right and it was not an idiotic thread.  I stated at the end of last season the things I was hearing about Vander on campus and they are consistent with what was stated just in the last few days.  He is not well liked on campus because of how he acts and he clearly doesn't act like a teammate on the court.  His actions speak for themselves.  It was not just that game, there are others.  Go back and watch the video.  He needs to get his anger under control and do better with his classmates off the court.  If this troubles you that MU students are saying this, then by all means call them out.  Let's call them liars like so many here did about the women assaulted by some MU athletes.  After all, it would be par for the course to rip on our student body rather than dare question the actions of some of the players.    

I haven't spoken to Chicos in weeks, that is if speaking to someone includes an email communication.  I haven't actually spoken to him with words (audible) in months. 

Try watching today's game again.  Several instances of Vander being chummy with the guys on the team that I saw, including (Gasp) Derrick Wilson.  As far as what the student body thinks of him...don't care.  Lot of it probably has to do with jealousy. 

And the slap of five thread was idiotic.  You have lost whatever credibility you had by defending that thread. 

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not Chicos.  That was made clear I though a few weeks ago.  If I am able to find his post on the subject, I will.  He made the suggestion that we get together (those of us in Chicago) and it makes sense.  I'll bring the camera, you can admit on the video what a douche you are and apologize to Scoop, Chicos, myself and everyone else here.  You are the worst kind of fan.  The one that takes pleasure in other teams losing.  In the last few days you have exemplified it in your own postings, like a 12 year old.



 

You're inviting Another MU84 to "get together" so he can confess on videotape to being a douche and apologize to you and Chicos for it? And then you have the stones to accuse him of acting like a 12 year old? Hoop, you outdid yourself on this one.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

...Ners is right...

Well, for those of you who didn't believe him... this is the smoking gun.

Hoop can't be Chicos.

[Hoopaloop]

Chicos,

Thanks for reminding me why I never read the second page of a post.  I started this as a congrats to Buzz for beating the other 15 BE teams and you hijacked it into a pissing match about college rankings and IU.

In keeping with this thread being about Buzz and MU, I'll correct you on one thing.

The last time MU had a top 25 class was two years (current sophomores) when MU was #17.

It took me awhile, but now I know the mistake I made in my post.  Of course MU has had top 25 recruiting classes in the last few years, my own links prove that.  Why I typed "top 25" instead of "top 10" is beyond me, especially when I was referencing IU's top 10 class.  My mistake, but now that makes sense for the blowback.

I don't recall when MU had a top 10 recruiting class.  Certainly when Al was around and maybe even with Hank, but has there been one since?  Sorry for the mistake.  If we have had a top 10 class in the last 25 years, can someone share?

[jmayer1]

It took me awhile, but now I know the mistake I made in my post.  Of course MU has had top 25 recruiting classes in the last few years, my own links prove that.  Why I typed "top 25" instead of "top 10" is beyond me, especially when I was referencing IU's top 10 class.  My mistake, but now that makes sense for the blowback.

I don't recall when MU had a top 10 recruiting class.  Certainly when Al was around and maybe even with Hank, but has there been one since?  Sorry for the mistake.  If we have had a top 10 class in the last 25 years, can someone share?

Another sign he's not Chicos, admitting a mistake/mistype 

[ringout]

Never would have guessed that was going to be your prediction. I predict Marquette will play Louisville tomorrow at the Bradley Center.

Didn't even look at who posted, but knew from the 1st sentence it was Ch, I mean Hoopaloop