Bilas' Top 68

[Silkk the Shaka]

Let us first note this may be the first time on this board you have ever admitted you were wrong, but it took someone to point it out a number of times for you to finally admit it.  That was one thing your friend told me about you - your inability to ever admit you are wrong despite all the evidence suggesting you are.  For this, you should be commended.  Wish he was here to see this.  Maybe I'll reach out to him on his Facebook page and let him know.  He'll probably fall over on the ski slopes.

If anyone doubted this was Chicos, I would like to submit the above paragraph as strong evidence to the contrary.

[Lennys Tap]

If anyone doubted this was Chicos, I would like to submit the above paragraph as strong evidence to the contrary.

While it is hard to imagine a Chicos mini-me out there in cyberspace worshipping and "BFFing" the bondsman on facebook, it's not impossible. After all, even murderers on death row get the occasional love letter from some deranged admirer.

[Lennys Tap]

A number of folks here have proven that the experts that vote in the polls are anything but experts.  Anyone that believes the polls are a true reflection of a team's value is someone that doesn't understand basketball (or football) this early in the season.  Most teams haven't played anyone yet of worth, or only played 1 or 2 games.  I'd have to go back and look at the posts, but I recall reading several analysis' that showed how brutal these experts are in picking top 25 teams at the beginning of the year who don't even make the NCAA tournament, let alone the top 25 by the end of the year.  This might be a good opportunity for you to admit you are wrong for the second time because the polls at this point in the season are worthless.  Conference play hasn't started, most teams haven't been on the road more than 2 times.  The experts are as clueless on this stuff as anyone else and this can be proven easily by examining the polls the last decade.

World according to Hoopaloop: The "experts" (Bilas, coaches, writers, etc.) are brutal. No way can they evaluate the strength of individual teams in the various conferences preseason or even 40% into the season. They can, however, somehow evaluate the strengths of the conferences in which the teams whom they know nothing about play. Further, they can do it to such an extent that you offer it as fact, not opinion. This might be a good time for you to admit you're contradicting yourself, taking a guy like Bilas as speaking ex cathedra when he agrees with with you and dismissing him as a know nothing when he doesn't.

[Sir Lawrence]

ex cathedra

Ya don't get that phrase very often on sports message boards.  Hat tip to you, sir. 

[ringout]

This is why I was in favor of CBB's ban.  He always turned the attention from the discussion to himself.  His alter ego is going the same route.  It is only a matter of time before their are 6 pages of posts between Hoop and Lenny, bickering amongst themselves, with any valuable posts caught in the crossfire.  Ban Hoop/Chicos now.  We know who he is, and he is not behaving any better.

PS.  I have nothing against Lenny.  He is a model citizen when Chicos isn't poking him in the eye.  I would not have an issue with Chicos returning as Hoopaloop if his behavior improved, but he is very quickly deteriorating into Chicos of old.

[Lennys Tap]

This is why I was in favor of CBB's ban.  He always turned the attention from the discussion to himself.  His alter ego is going the same route.  It is only a matter of time before their are 6 pages of posts between Hoop and Lenny, bickering amongst themselves, with any valuable posts caught in the crossfire.  Ban Hoop/Chicos now.  We know who he is, and he is not behaving any better.

PS.  I have nothing against Lenny.  He is a model citizen when Chicos isn't poking him in the eye.  I would not have an issue with Chicos returning as Hoopaloop if his behavior improved, but he is very quickly deteriorating into Chicos of old.

You make a good point, ring. Chicos/Hoop goes on boards like these looking for a fight. Too often I oblige.

[brewcity77]

If the topic is banning Hoop, I'd disagree. I'll admit I generally liked CBB, but I understand his ban. He made the job of the mods harder with personal attacks. He not only antagonized members and mods, but also had his cyber-stalking tendencies.

Hoop does none of this. Yes, he has a dissenting opinion much of the time, but his opinions usually center on the team or the leagues rather than belittling individuals or goading mods. No need to ban Hoop, in my opinion.

[tower912]

Hoop hasn't called people out by name (not username), gotten endless threads locked, deliberately goaded mods, or run arguments into the ground.   He has an opionion and is a chicos fanboy.   No need to ban.

[ringout]

Hoop hasn't called people out by name (not username), gotten endless threads locked, deliberately goaded mods, or run arguments into the ground.   He has an opionion and is a chicos fanboy.   No need to ban.

Agree that he isn't there yet, but his posting behavior is trending toward Bad Chicos.

[Hoopaloop]

While it is hard to imagine a Chicos mini-me out there in cyberspace worshipping and "BFFing" the bondsman on facebook, it's not impossible. After all, even murderers on death row get the occasional love letter from some deranged admirer.

There are a number of posters here that facebook with me as friends, not just Chicos.  Because of your age you may not be part of the social networking wave.  My mom isn't, she's in her 70's.  So when you blast me, you blast many other guys here that are Marquette fans as well. 

[Hoopaloop]

World according to Hoopaloop: The "experts" (Bilas, coaches, writers, etc.) are brutal. No way can they evaluate the strength of individual teams in the various conferences preseason or even 40% into the season. They can, however, somehow evaluate the strengths of the conferences in which the teams whom they know nothing about play. Further, they can do it to such an extent that you offer it as fact, not opinion. This might be a good time for you to admit you're contradicting yourself, taking a guy like Bilas as speaking ex cathedra when he agrees with with you and dismissing him as a know nothing when he doesn't.

The experts you referenced earlier were the pollsters.  They are brutal.  My respect for Bilas is high.  My respect for Dykes is high, he looks like he might be on to something with tonight's comments.

The great part about your post is that it proves equally to dissolve your argument.  If they are good enough to rank the teams, as you claim, then they are good enough to rank the conferences.  Seems we are both contradicting ourselves.  I can admit it, can you?

[Lennys Tap]

The great part about your post is that it proves equally to dissolve your argument.  If they are good enough to rank the teams, as you claim, then they are good enough to rank the conferences.  Seems we are both contradicting ourselves.  I can admit it, can you?

Not exactly. My opinion is that the polls (Bilas, Pomeroy, Coaches, Writers, etc.) have some value as a yardstick regarding expectations for the teams in each conference and therefore for the conferences themselves. They can set reasonable expectations but aren't infallible. I think the data suggests a dead heat between the Big Ten and the Big East this year but have no problem if someone thinks that so far the evidence gives the Big 10 a slight edge.

You think that no reasonable expectations can be drawn for individual teams from the polls, that they are brutal and worthless. Yet you embace as immutable, inarguable fact for now and the remainder of the season a snapshot of the conferences based on the same data. In short, a "garbage in", "gold out" position as long as it tells you what you want to hear.

[Lennys Tap]

There are a number of posters here that facebook with me as friends, not just Chicos.  Because of your age you may not be part of the social networking wave.  My mom isn't, she's in her 70's.  So when you blast me, you blast many other guys here that are Marquette fans as well. 

Well, I'm several years short of my 70's but you're certainly right about me being behind the curve on the social networking scene. I have a hard enough time keeing up with all my real life friends. I intended no disrespect to people who forge a friendship based on their love of MU and MU basketball - I just found your admission that I was the subject of some your networking with you know who to be somewhat disconcerting. It's as if he's still stalking me (and others here, I'm sure) from afar. I guess if I'm going to be the subject of your tete-a-tetes with him I'd prefer you keep it to yourself as I find it creepy. Thanks.

[Hoopaloop]

Agree that he isn't there yet, but his posting behavior is trending toward Bad Chicos.

Wait, so this week I'm not Chicos or am I Chicos but not quite as bad as Chicos, just trending that way?

At this point, I'm proud of the association.  If people say I act like Chicos, then fine.  He's been more right on things than wrong.  His concerns were JC at point guard, not enough traditional shooters and true basketball players (not just great athletes), and the long term viability of the Big East for MU.  He rubs some people the wrong way, doesn't make him any less right on the big ticket items.  He said Crean would succeed at IU and people couldn't wait to rip CBB the first few years, he never relented and said they would turn it around.  He looks to be right on that one also.  He said to wait five years to judge a coach.  After five years at the helm with Buzz, will we be in better shape, worse shape or the same?  Only one more year to find out.  Jury is still out on Buzz and the carping here by posters against some legitimate concerns in the coaching and recruiting department is why a number of posters no longer post here.  They are attacked for having legitimate concerns.

It's year four guys, it's only one loss but a very poor showing by MU.  We haven't played well in a number of weeks.  Fortunately the conference is our friend this year.  Some of us, including me, were fooled into thinking getting hot during the Big East and NCAA Tournament last year excused everything else.  A 10th place finish.  This year seemed a certain lock for a top 5, maybe top 3 finish (a number of guys here saying Big East championship) but all of that looks very iffy right now.  Buzz has shown at times the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat, but this team shows some traits from last year that are troubling.  Poor decision making, lazy passing, defense that remains inconsistent (a trait since the Buzz era began).  I would be thrilled to have my top 3 prediction come true, but right now it would be nice to see some senior leadership, some solid PG play and better defense\rebounding.

[ringout]

Wait, so this week I'm not Chicos or am I Chicos but not quite as bad as Chicos, just trending that way?

No, I believe you are Chicos.  Your arguments and style are the same. 

My comments regarding trending are just that.  Matters of degree.  You started off somewhat conciliatory, and low-key.  Your beligerence level now isn't Toxic Chicos, but trending that way. 

I was a fan of the old Chicos, and his previous alter ego (can't remember his name) circa 2005? - 2008 or 09?  He got lost somewhere and spent way too much emotional energy defending Our former Coach and slamming our current coach.  In the last few months of Chicos tenure many valuable posters dropped off (BMA, etc.) possibly tired of his hyjinks.  I just don't want the board to degenerate to what it was when you were banned.  This is a fun board, and the mods allow a good give and take.  I don't want this to be a Dodds like board where we can't have any fun.                               

[ChicoBailBondz]

No, I believe you are Chicos.  Your arguments and style are the same. 

My comments regarding trending are just that.  Matters of degree.  You started off somewhat conciliatory, and low-key.  Your beligerence level now isn't Toxic Chicos, but trending that way. 

I was a fan of the old Chicos, and his previous alter ego (can't remember his name) circa 2005? - 2008 or 09?  He got lost somewhere and spent way too much emotional energy defending Our former Coach and slamming our current coach.  In the last few months of Chicos tenure many valuable posters dropped off (BMA, etc.) possibly tired of his hyjinks.  I just don't want the board to degenerate to what it was when you were banned.  This is a fun board, and the mods allow a good give and take.  I don't want this to be a Dodds like board where we can't have any fun.                               

Ringout, this all needs to stop.  You are incorrect. 

•   First, Happy New Year to all of you.  Let’s hope the Mayans are wrong about 2012

•   On a personal note, I wanted to thank many of you for all the prayers and warm wishes for my daughter.  Some really great folks on MU Scoop that reached out (4everwarriors, Dr. Blackheart, Ecompt, StillAWarrior, etc) and others in the MU community.  Unfortunately she is on insulin the rest of her life, but she is doing great.  What a trooper. She turns 10 next month. There are a lot of worthy charities out there but if you ever feel the need to donate and aren’t sure what cause to donate to, about 2 million Americans (mostly kids when they get it) have the rarer Type I Diabetes (formerly known as Juvenile Diabetes) that could use your help.  https://donations.diabetes.org

•   Rocky, I apologize for coming here, but felt the need to jump in here because of some of the harassment going on against other posters using me as validation vehicle…it’s not right and I keep getting invoked in the process which isn’t fair to the other posters (see below).  I will not post again unless you ask, but several guys have reached out to me via email and Facebook and I felt the need to set the record straight and stop this nonsense.  Despite Ringout's and a few other folks claims, I'm not here posting as anyone else.

•   Rocky, I was in Colorado for much of the last two weeks.  I should have looked you up.  I should be back in late January or February in the Denver area…we should watch a game at a bar…I took some swipes at you in the last year that I shouldn’t have.  The least I can do is buy you a beer or three.  The banning from Scoop was a blessing.  Spent way too much time here and it was good to get away.  Until a few weeks ago, I couldn’t even read anything here until Hilltopper showed me how illiterate I was with browser cookies (still can’t clear them properly on IE, but I can read Scoop on Firefox now).   

•   Rob (Hoopaloop) and others being accused as me posting as you...you are in a pinch…this is how it works.  It’s part of the marginalization process against you and why some posters have left in the past.  They got tired of being labeled as Buzz haters, Marquette haters, or just haters for having legitimate concerns about the program, the school, etc. Tired of being labeled as someone they are not. None of us hate Buzz or Marquette, no more than we hate our kids, our country, our spouse but sometimes we are critical of them as well (and they of us). 

Rob and everyone else being accused of someone you aren't,  I see three options for you:

1.   Ignore these people and keep posting about your passion of Marquette hoops.  Let them call you what they want; it’s a game they play.  Don’t acknowledge their games.

2.   Leave Scoop and stop posting…you certainly wouldn’t be the first or the last. The downside here is that as more folks leave, the more it becomes like Scout and the inertia creates one point of view.  Irving Janis coined the term Groupthink.  It’s worth a few minutes of study.

3.   Prove them all wrong. This is my favorite option.   You live in Chicago, right?  Get together with Lenny or Ringout or any number of other guys that question you that live in Chitown.  Of get together with then at a MU game...even better as they should have to buy you beers all day long for being chumps on this.  Bring your laptop, login to Scoop right in front of them; show them your driver’s license, call me on the cell while you do it.  If you do this, please bring a camera and document the entire jaw dropping exercise because it should be posted for all to see…including the ensuing apology from them.  That way whenever someone calls you out in the future, you can just queue up the YouTube video. 


I wish you all the best in 2012.  My convictions haven’t changed

o   College hoops is a guard’s game (love you 4ever).  We have an inconsistent point guard but he has shown signs of solid play late last year and sometimes this year.  Need to get stronger here to succeed
o   Recruiting quality big men to Marquette is difficult regardless of the coach.  It’s Marquette, It’s Marquette and that has meant no high quality big men for decades.  Wish that wasn’t the case, but it is.  Maybe someday Buzz or someone else can change that, but the notion it would happen overnight with the new staff was optimistic.
o   I still do not believe we play intelligent basketball
o   Need a few more traditional players – shooters and guys that understand basketball and don’t just out athlete their opponents (that works in High School and against lower competition in college)
o   Judge a coach after five years
o   Rocky, I still expect you to pay up on that bet…Crean isn’t going anywhere any time soon.  
o   Ners, I still expect you to pay up on our bet …IU goes to a Final Four with Crean before MU does with Buzz.  One team seems a lot closer to it than that other in my opinion, especially with the recruiting classes coming in
o   Offense is sexy; Defense and rebounding equals long term success
o   Vander + JC on the court at same time = tough to get scoring there.  Sometimes looks like 3 vs 5 on offense
o   2011 was not the university or the athletic department’s finest hour.  Let’s hope 2012 shows some marked improvements and committed changes (actions, not words) that are necessary moving forward to be a strong, Catholic university that treats all students equally.  Demonizing females that make a charge and determining they are at fault because she doesn’t have a killer cross over or a smooth J from beyond the arc is just wrong.  They might be wrong, but let’s not demonize these students.
o   Beating UW-madison is a wonderful thing.  Women’s hoops, women’s soccer, men’s hoops all posting victories.  Never gets old.  We are the best team in the state and that feels great
o   The Big East is still a Beast, but not quite as good as the last few years.  Hard to say who is the best.  All of college basketball continues to dilute.  ACC sucks outside of 2 1/2 teams.  Big Ten probably best top to bottom, but no stellar teams. Big East good, but outside of Syracuse no one scares anyone.  Big 12 not what it used to be.  Pac 12 is horrific.  SEC has done pretty well against the Big East but not as good top to bottom. 

Go Marquette.  Go Indiana.  Go Kansas!  Peace to all.  Sorry to insert myself, but this was getting ridiculous.

[🏀]

Its all about Chicos.

Best of love to your family, especially your daughter.

[nyg]

CBB, welcome back, at least for one post.  I for one have missed the insights and at times hilarious arguments between yourself and others. 

[🏀]

CBB, welcome back, at least for one post.  I for one have missed the insights and at times hilarious arguments between yourself and others. 

And the sometimes hilarious arguments between himself and himself.

[MUMac]

Chico's, so sorry to hear about your daughter.  Only knew there was a family illness, per a comment by hoopaloop.  Diabetes is a tough disease.  It can be controlled, but not without consequences.  Your daughter is in my prayers.  Hopefully, medical advances will occur during her lifetime.

[jmayer1]

I know we've had some disagreements in the past Chicos, but certainly thoughts and prayers to your daughter, you, and the rest of your family.

[wadesworld]

Prayers for your daughter.  I enjoyed having your unbiased opinion and telling it like it was, even if it wasn't positive towards Marquette.

[Dr. Blackheart]

All the best...not my call and I respect the mods rule, but I think it is time to relax the ban. We all share a passion for MU hoops, and Chicos adds a tom of expertise and insight--and yes, we all go too far at times.  Besides, the Crean, Buzz, and assorted pissing contests haven't gone away.  Rather have him around to focus the herd's angst.  It is just the internet and MU hoops, afterall.  

The best to the fam, especially your daughter (health) and you (parent worry).  Here is to a Healthy and Happy New Year!

[Lennys Tap]

Chico - nothing more difficult in life than watching your child struggle with a serious illness. Heartfelt sympathies and so glad to know she is doing well. Prayers for you and your family.

On a lighter subject, I'd love to have a beer with Hoop. I don't think I've accused him of being you, though I have called him the Plato to your Socrates, your acolyte and a Chicos wanna be. That he consults you before posting speaks volumes to me.

 I'm not exactly stunned to see you cling to each and every opinion you had when you left this forum. And good for you - I like a man who sticks with his convictions. But when discussing me with Hoop, please at least consider that me sticking to mine doesn't necessarily equate to not admitting being wrong.

Again, good health to you and yours in 2012.

[Dawson Rental]

All the best...not my call and I respect the mods rule, but I think it is time to relax the ban. We all share a passion for MU hoops, and Chicos adds a tom of expertise and insight--and yes, we all go too far at times.  Besides, the Crean, Buzz, and assorted pissing contests haven't gone away.  Rather have him around to focus the herd's angst.  It is just the internet and MU hoops, afterall.  

The best to the fam, especially your daughter (health) and you (parent worry).  Here is to a Healthy and Happy New Year!

+1