MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: keefe on August 22, 2015, 01:41:49 AM
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The first two women recently finished Ranger training and earned their tabs. This is a damned tough course. I went through it as a TACP and it damn near broke me. These women are the best of the best. I salute them.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/21/433482186/first-female-soldiers-graduate-from-army-ranger-school
http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/08/21/first-ever-women-graduate-from-army-rang?videoId=365362128&videoChannel=1&channelName=Top+News
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I got an email this week about the first female Rangers then read these reports tonight. It made me think back to when I first went into this man's Air Force. Fighter pilots was an all-male club and the first women were just being accepted into flight training.
Now, there are plenty of women flying combat as we speak - in F 15s, 16s, 18s, A 10s.... and a female Warthog Driver is in Congress. The last frontier was Spec Ops and these two women earning their tabs is significant - Nobody can ever say no again.
This is a damned great country when you get right down to it. It doesn't matter race, color, or creed if you can earn it. But you must earn it. For women, they needed to be given the opportunity. These women proved worthy of that opportunity. Make no mistake - they did something very significant.
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I have a friend who is a Ranger and provided me with some insight into what the training and vetting process is like. It's very hard to think that you wouldn't want somebody who made it through that in combat with you regardless of sex, race, etc. Based on the little that I know, it is truly a testament to the human mind/body's ability to adapt to new situations on the fly.
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Yeah,but do these broads put out, hey?
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Yeah,but do these broads put out, hey?
Duh, how else would they pass the Ranger training?
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Congrats to the ladies. As long as the standards are maintained and we aren't doing lowest common denominator stuff like the fire departments were doing, I'm all for it.
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Congrats to the ladies. As long as the standards are maintained and we aren't doing lowest common denominator stuff like the fire departments were doing, I'm all for it.
The CG came out publicly and confirmed that there is just one standard because of internet idiots making up lies.
USAF SOW TACPs go through the Ranger course because we are embedded with the Rangers for our mission. Obviously, we catch a lot of crap from our Army brethren throughout the course but I can assure you there is only one standard. There were many times I asked myself, "what the hell was I thinking..." but you stay the course because you represent the Air Force.
I am sure these two women knew it was more than just themselves. Motivation is powerful. And trust me - that course is a ball buster.
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Good for them. America should be honored and proud. Those women and men that get through this truly accomplish something amazing.
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2015/news/150831/army-rangers-1024.jpg)
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SECNAV is going to allow women into BUDs and if they pass they will become SEALs. It does give you a moments pause that something like this is news in 2015.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/navy/2015/05/27/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-women-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/ (http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/navy/2015/05/27/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-women-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/)
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SECNAV is going to allow women into BUDs and if they pass they will become SEALs. It does give you a moments pause that something like this is news in 2015.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/navy/2015/05/27/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-women-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/ (http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/navy/2015/05/27/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-women-female-seal-navy-combat-exclusion/27653965/)
AFSOC is still all-male but the DoD Directive will change that. My position is pretty simple: if you pass the Q Course and earn your Ranger Tab then you go out with the teams. And for the SEAL community if a woman passes BUDS and earns her Budweiser then she is a SEAL and should go operational.
The only thing I think women might struggle with is the loads we carry on our backs. Factor in the humping up mountains and that could be an issue. People also need to know that out in the field there is zero privacy and people will know how many pimples you have on each ass cheek. But if you go through the Ranger course or BUDS you will have gotten over that trauma by the time you get operational.
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This seems easy. Assuming the standards are the SAME (we're not playing games like fire departments have), then I don't care if you are a unicorn...you pass...you pass. You belong in the field \ theater like anyone else.
Just don't compromise the standards. This shouldn't be hard.
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This seems easy. Assuming the standards are the SAME (we're not playing games like fire departments have), then I don't care if you are a unicorn...you pass...you pass. You belong in the field \ theater like anyone else.
Just don't compromise the standards. This shouldn't be hard.
The CG came out and publicly stated there is one standard. That should put that rumor to bed...unless the General is lying, of course.
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This seems easy. Assuming the standards are the SAME (we're not playing games like fire departments have), then I don't care if you are a unicorn...you pass...you pass. You belong in the field \ theater like anyone else.
Just don't compromise the standards. This shouldn't be hard.
There will be one standard and if you pass you pass.
It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.
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Kris Griest is from the town I live in. It's been a big local story the last several days. My daughter starts high school next week where she attended. Already the welcome back e-mails and preparation e-mails start by congratulating her. Her brother is in the military also.
A great story of perseverance.
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There will be one standard and if you pass you pass.
It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.
Agree.....which begs the question why municipal fire departments lowered the standards.
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There will be one standard and if you pass you pass.
It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.
I spoke with one of the guys at Hurlburt and he confirmed that there is just one 'Gold Standard' at Benning. He said the gouge is that women do much better with the lack of sleep and managing the multi-tasking mind screw games. Their critical failure is in upper body strength requirements.
The Spec Ops Wing is already gearing up for women in all combat AFSCs. Women will be TACPs, Special Tactics, and PJs beginning next year. I am told that the first will be ALOs who will go through the TACP syllabus.
Women started going through SAR/SERE once they opened up combat seats to them. I did both Camp Rambo in the winter and Warner Springs in the summer but this was when the RTL was still all male.
After you are 'captured' and arrive at the POW compound they take away your flight suit. There isn't a changing room. As part of the torture and mind screw there seems to be a lot of time spent running around naked. I am guessing they are making some concessions to gender in the RTL for that but then again perhaps not.
The instructor cadre are really good at what they do. I managed by keep reminding myself that it was a training exercise and there was a light at the end of the tunnel - which is one of the lessons we were taught. But when you throw in a week without food and sleep before you even get to the camp and then throw in the programmed sleep deprivation fun and water boarding games inside the barbed wire and your mind turns into a bowl of mush.
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I spoke with one of the guys at Hurlburt and he confirmed that there is just one 'Gold Standard' at Benning. He said the gouge is that women do much better with the lack of sleep and managing the multi-tasking mind screw games. Their critical failure is in upper body strength requirements.
The Spec Ops Wing is already gearing up for women in all combat AFSCs. Women will be TACPs, Special Tactics, and PJs beginning next year. I am told that the first will be ALOs who will go through the TACP syllabus.
Women started going through SAR/SERE once they opened up combat seats to them. I did both Camp Rambo in the winter and Warner Springs in the summer but this was when the RTL was still all male.
After you are 'captured' and arrive at the POW compound they take away your flight suit. There isn't a changing room. As part of the torture and mind screw there seems to be a lot of time spent running around naked. I am guessing they are making some concessions to gender in the RTL for that but then again perhaps not.
The instructor cadre are really good at what they do. I managed by keep reminding myself that it was a training exercise and there was a light at the end of the tunnel - which is one of the lessons we were taught. But when you throw in a week without food and sleep before you even get to the camp and then throw in the programmed sleep deprivation fun and water boarding games inside the barbed wire and your mind turns into a bowl of mush.
I would hope they wouldn't change for the gender. I get it from a civilian standpoint what it looks like but that shizzle happens in the world and all need to be ready for it. The men need to be just as prepared for a woman being tortured/advanced interigation in front of them as much as women need to be prepared to accept torture/interrogation.
You get a mixed CV-22 crew that goes down during NOE and captured there will be no exceptions granted.
I know I'm preaching to the choir but I think the general public needs to understand why all of this goes on. This isn't sadism or chauvinism, this is important for the service of the mission and keeping the faith with your shipmates
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keeping the faith with your shipmates
And with your fellow airmen!
Listening to your podcast as we speak. Not much love for Thomas?
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And with your fellow airmen!
Listening to your podcast as we speak. Not much love for Thomas?
Overall we both thought he was great but the constant nickname thing wasn't his best worked....cheapened the overall effort
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Agree.....which begs the question why municipal fire departments lowered the standards.
Jesus...keep repeating yourself. Fire department physical exams are a joke. How are you comparing the two?
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Jesus...keep repeating yourself. Fire department physical exams are a joke. How are you comparing the two?
Because he wants to make a political point...like always.
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In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards? Must be a California thing. On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame. It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.
My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list. Those got tossed by 1991. Since 1991, there has been one list.
Roughly 1200 people take the test every time. To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60. If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks. If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class. Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports. The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.
PRN, I know better.
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My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list. Those got tossed by 1991. Since 1991, there has been one list.
Not to derail this thread but I'm curious what was the reasoning behind separating the males into white/non-white categories? That seems bizarre considering how recent you're talking about.
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25 years ago, the city attempted to increase minority representation on the fire department. While it is still a worthy goal, they have backed away from segregating the eligibility lists. I think the city realized that it was an untenable position.
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In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards? Must be a California thing. On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame. It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.
My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list. Those got tossed by 1991. Since 1991, there has been one list.
Roughly 1200 people take the test every time. To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60. If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks. If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class. Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports. The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.
PRN, I know better.
Not sure what that last comment means, but I know that a junior high kid could pass the Physical test the Chicago FD puts you though.
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I know that only a junior high school student who had done extensive weight training could get through ours. All upper body and wind.
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Not sure what that last comment means, but I know that a junior high kid could pass the Physical test the Chicago FD puts you though.
Well, of course. How else do you make sure that the kids of the aldermen's "friends" get hired on?
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BTW, congratulations to the courageous young women who are now Rangers.
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All upper body and wind.
Sounds like a girl I once dated.
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Sounds like a girl I once dated.
Big, healthy lungs or incredible flatulence?
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In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards? Must be a California thing. On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame. It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.
My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list. Those got tossed by 1991. Since 1991, there has been one list.
Roughly 1200 people take the test every time. To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60. If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks. If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class. Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports. The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.
PRN, I know better.
I took the exams for firefighter back in 1989 in Richfield, MN. When they told us the minimum passing score was = to the worst score of their existing FF we know it was BS. There were some pretty out of shape fat FF among the ones testing us, no way did they all pass that test or if they did they didn't have to perform every test back-to-back on the same day.
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The different standards are interesting. I know ours is a timed agility test, all tasks fire related, done wearing fire gear, and pass/fail. 10:00 limit.
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nm
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Because he wants to make a political point...like always.
Exactly. In the post about those American heroes who subdued that guy on the train in France -- http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=48384.0;all -- Chicos' reaction was:
"You watch, the marines will get in trouble for doing this somehow."
He can't help himself. He loves to argue, and if nobody is arguing, he'll start the argument so that others will feel compelled to argue. He loves his own voice.
Yiddish talkers would call him a classic "nudnik."
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Something that is not being said is that the qualification standard is the bare minimum expectation. In fact, you should be far exceeding the mins if you hope to earn your TACP cert of Ranger Tab.
Both the TACP PAST and the Ranger Q Course require you do 50 situps and pushups but everyone I know was able to pound out well over 100 in the allotted time. I think the minimum number of pullups is 6 but everyone was exceeding 20. And the run was to maintain an 8 minute pace over 5 miles; in fact, we were expected to run closer to a 5:15 pace for the 5.
There are quals for weapons handling, land nav, and various dimensions of leadership. The reality is that just meeting the minimum standards won't get you through the course. It is not just about physical strength and endurance.
The Ranger Syllabus is all about Imposed Stress. In addition to those baseline minimum physical strength standards the course is two months of physical and mental exertion designed to push you to your limits - not meet the minimums. The washout rate is about 60% and that is of the people who finally get into the school house - far more never get the privilege of attending.
Ranger training is 61 days of getting no more than 4 hours of sleep a day (usually no more than 1-2) while marching around with 60-90 pounds on your back. You are burning 15,000 calories a day while living on 2,200.
Perhaps the most critical evaluations are the 6-10 graded leadership positions you assume during the course and, at the end of each phase, everyone does a peer eval on every member of the team. These are the most important in many ways - not the least of which is that your fellow Spec Ops Warriors are saying whether or not they want to serve with you.
The objective of the Ranger Course is simple: to train small unit special warfare combat leaders who have the necessary physical and mental toughness to complete any assigned mission according to the Warrior Ethos.
The conversation here has been around the minimum physical standards. That isn't the core of Ranger training. It is about far exceeding both those physical and mental obstacles and provide leadership for highly motivated Rangers, SEALS, TACPs, and Force Recon warriors who demand the very best in everyone they serve with.
Chico insinuates the standards were lowered to accommodate those two women. All that suggests is he does not understand the core principles involved in developing Spec Ops warriors. Those women exceeded every challenge thrown at them and , most importantly, their leadership was assessed as exceptional bu the Tab-wearing cadre as well as their fellow troops who said, "I will serve with you anytime, anywhere" when they filled out their peer evals.
Getting your Ranger Tab isn't like rushing Sigma Chi. It is one of the most demanding tests of the human spirit. Those women earned the right to wear their Tabs. People who insinuate the women were 'passed through' do not understand the Warrior Ethos.
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Something that is not being said is that the qualification standard is the bare minimum expectation. In fact, you should be far exceeding the mins if you hope to earn your TACP cert of Ranger Tab.
Both the TACP PAST and the Ranger Q Course require you do 50 situps and pushups but everyone I know was able to pound out well over 100 in the allotted time. I think the minimum number of pullups is 6 but everyone was exceeding 20. And the run was to maintain an 8 minute pace over 5 miles; in fact, we were expected to run closer to a 5:15 pace for the 5.
There are quals for weapons handling, land nav, and various dimensions of leadership. The reality is that just meeting the minimum standards won't get you through the course. It is not just about physical strength and endurance.
The Ranger Syllabus is all about Imposed Stress. In addition to those baseline minimum physical strength standards the course is two months of physical and mental exertion designed to push you to your limits - not meet the minimums. The washout rate is about 60% and that is of the people who finally get into the school house - far more never get the privilege of attending.
Ranger training is 61 days of getting no more than 4 hours of sleep a day (usually no more than 1-2) while marching around with 60-90 pounds on your back. You are burning 15,000 calories a day while living on 2,200.
Perhaps the most critical evaluations are the 6-10 graded leadership positions you assume during the course and, at the end of each phase, everyone does a peer eval on every member of the team. These are the most important in many ways - not the least of which is that your fellow Spec Ops Warriors are saying whether or not they want to serve with you.
The objective of the Ranger Course is simple: to train small unit special warfare combat leaders who have the necessary physical and mental toughness to complete any assigned mission according to the Warrior Ethos.
The conversation here has been around the minimum physical standards. That isn't the core of Ranger training. It is about far exceeding both those physical and mental obstacles and provide leadership for highly motivated Rangers, SEALS, TACPs, and Force Recon warriors who demand the very best in everyone they serve with.
Chico insinuates the standards were lowered to accommodate those two women. All that suggests is he does not understand the core principles involved in developing Spec Ops warriors. Those women exceeded every challenge thrown at them and , most importantly, their leadership was assessed as exceptional bu the Tab-wearing cadre as well as their fellow troops who said, "I will serve with you anytime, anywhere" when they filled out their peer evals.
Getting your Ranger Tab isn't like rushing Sigma Chi. It is one of the most demanding tests of the human spirit. Those women earned the right to wear their Tabs. People who insinuate the women were 'passed through' do not understand the Warrior Ethos.
It's great to have you on our board to explain this stuff, Crash.
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I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger. I imagine sex would happen.
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I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger. I imagine sex would happen.
I am guessing you have never been on a 12 day covert op in SW Asia. After a few days of not bathing and eliminating all masking scents from your existence while surrounded by chuckleheads who want to cut your head off on the internet the thought of sex is the furthest thing from your mind...
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I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger. I imagine sex would happen.
Key word being "imagine?"
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I am guessing you have never been on a 12 day covert op in SW Asia. After a few days of not bathing and eliminating all masking scents from your existence while surrounded by chuckleheads who want to cut your head off on the internet the thought of sex is the furthest thing from your mind...
Wind blows the right direction, I'll be up for anything. Might make the internet too.
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Key word bein' "up," ai na?
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I am guessing you have never been on a 12 day covert op in SW Asia. After a few days of not bathing and eliminating all masking scents from your existence while surrounded by chuckleheads who want to cut your head off on the internet the thought of sex is the furthest thing from your mind...
That's ZFB's strategy if I ever end up in the slammer. Plus forgetting how to wipe my ass.
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I'd rather be in a fox hole with the female ranger. I imagine sex would happen.
That's exactly what what would happen. You imagining sex, not actually having it.
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The different standards are interesting. I know ours is a timed agility test, all tasks fire related, done wearing fire gear, and pass/fail. 10:00 limit.
CPAT, I presume?
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Similar. Not identical. Hose drag, dummy drag, ladder throw, hose carry up 4 flights of stairs, pulling up more hose via a rope, 25 reps of pulling down a weighted pole, carrying 3 pieces of equipment down and back with a 4 step riser in the middle. Two :30 stops for rest. Must be done in under 10:00. Pass/fail. 06:30 counts the same as 09:59. No gender distinction. Our version has been unchanged for the last 35 years.
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Do you like that it's pass/fall? I don't. I recently took a CPAT. The guy in front of me barely made it and collapsed to the ground exhausted when he was done. I could have run it again and still beat him. We both got a "pass" and thus were considered equal, when in fact I could have done a much larger volume of work then he could. You have a lot more experience with it than I do - what do you think of that aspect?
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I did mine in around 08:30, but I was conversing with the evaluator while carrying the 3 objects and really wasn't pushing myself. I've seen hardbodies who were gassed 5 minutes into a fire because they couldn't control their breathing or their thinking. I've seen guys 100 lbs overweight work for hours without a break, because they understand their body and their task.
I want co-workers who understand the task, know their job, are well trained, and can keep an even keel as we do the voodoo we do. Their times mean nothing to me. It is a number you meet in order to gain entrance
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I see that Kris Griest has already been added to my kids high school Wikipedia page under Famous Alumni .
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There will be one standard and if you pass you pass.
It'll be interesting to see how some of the SERE stuff changes as a part of where a lot of these folks need to operate as the population can be especially brutal to women.
Navy
I was talking with a TACP brudda this weekend and we got to discussing the differences between BUDS and Ranger School.
BUDS is a 60 day course with nights and weekends off. In week 5 the SEAL wannabes are only allowed one hour of sleep a night for 5.5 days but they are fed like horses with three hot squares a day. At the end of "Hell Week" the remaining SEALs are given a pizza party.
Ranger Training is 61 days of no sleep, no food, and no time off.
But SEALs are tougher...I guess that's from all the movies they make!!
Aim High!
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Navy
I was talking with a TACP brudda this weekend and we got to discussing the differences between BUDS and Ranger School.
BUDS is a 60 day course with nights and weekends off. In week 5 the SEAL wannabes are only allowed one hour of sleep a night for 5.5 days but they are fed like horses with three hot squares a day. At the end of "Hell Week" the remaining SEALs are given a pizza party.
Ranger Training is 61 days of no sleep, no food, and no time off.
But SEALs are tougher...I guess that's from all the movies they make!!
Aim High!
Having never gone through either program I can't even begin to make an argument either way so I will take the road never traveled on the internet and not comment on things I know nothing about ;D Though I do believe BUD/S is a 24 week course
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Having never gone through either program I can't even begin to make an argument either way so I will take the road never traveled on the internet and not comment on things I know nothing about ;D Though I do believe BUD/S is a 24 week course
The total training cycle time is actually the about the same. The Ranger course includes members of all four services, including SEALs-in-training who are there for the small unit tactical proficiency instruction, so grads earn their tab then go on for specialized mission-specific combat training.
BUDS, unlike the other services, has a very heavy dose of playing in water which makes sense they are Navy.
The TACP 1C4 syllabus breaks out as follows:
TACP Indoc Course 1 Week Lackland AFB
Special Tactics Advanced Skills 12 Weeks Hurlburt Field
SAR/SERE 3 Weeks Fairchild AFB
Ranger Course 8 Weeks Ft Benning
Basic Airborne Course 3 Weeks Ft Benning
JTAC Qual Course 4 Weeks Nellis AFB
Once SEALs get their Trident they go on and do 2 weeks of SAR/SERE at Warner Springs or Brunswick then go to jump school so their total training cycle comes out to 31 weeks.
It's not that people hate SEALs but they are prima donnas. SEALs are Patton to TACPs Omar Bradley. You gotta give the Navy credit - You guys had Top Gun and we had Iron Eagle...
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I see that Kris Griest has already been added to my kids high school Wikipedia page under Famous Alumni .
Nutmeg
Here is a Sit Rep from one of Griest's Ranger classmates. He shatters the scuttlebutt that the women had relaxed standards.
http://sofrep.com/42761/really-happened-women-ranger-school-class-06-15/
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The total training cycle time is actually the about the same. The Ranger course includes members of all four services, including SEALs-in-training who are there for the small unit tactical proficiency instruction, so grads earn their tab then go on for specialized mission-specific combat training.
BUDS, unlike the other services, has a very heavy dose of playing in water which makes sense they are Navy.
The TACP 1C4 syllabus breaks out as follows:
TACP Indoc Course 1 Week Lackland AFB
Special Tactics Advanced Skills 12 Weeks Hurlburt Field
SAR/SERE 3 Weeks Fairchild AFB
Ranger Course 8 Weeks Ft Benning
Basic Airborne Course 3 Weeks Ft Benning
JTAC Qual Course 4 Weeks Nellis AFB
Once SEALs get their Trident they go on and do 2 weeks of SAR/SERE at Warner Springs or Brunswick then go to jump school so their total training cycle comes out to 31 weeks.
It's not that people hate SEALs but they are prima donnas. SEALs are Patton to TACPs Omar Bradley. You gotta give the Navy credit - You guys had Top Gun and we had Iron Eagle...
First I'm always, always preferred Iron Eagle to Top Gun, music was better and fewer scenes that made me question my sexuality.
Second, the Navy has always, always been very good at PR, its seemingly their 2nd operating philosophy...ya know the first being, being awesome.
Having met a lot of SEALs either through my dad and/or being in the same sphere I would whole heartedly agree with the prima donna statement. Don't get me wrong, they're amazing warriors, but they aren't the exponential difference they make it out to be.
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First I'm always, always preferred Iron Eagle to Top Gun, music was better and fewer scenes that made me question my sexuality.
Second, the Navy has always, always been very good at PR, its seemingly their 2nd operating philosophy...ya know the first being, being awesome.
Having met a lot of SEALs either through my dad and/or being in the same sphere I would whole heartedly agree with the prima donna statement. Don't get me wrong, they're amazing warriors, but they aren't the exponential difference they make it out to be.
SEALs are bad ass. Beyond any shadow of a doubt. They just need to stop telling everyone how much better they are.
I will say this: the Navy and Marine Corps have sh1t hot uniforms. The modern Air Force? Not so much unless you are planning on a career as a Culligan Man.
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I will say this: the Navy and Marine Corps have sh1t hot uniforms. The modern Air Force? Not so much unless you are planning on a career as a Culligan Man.
I'll say this, the Navy uniform runs the gambit from the best to the worst whereas the Air Force is just plain below average across the board.
The Class A uniform(navy blue suit essentially) is just a great look and will turn heads every time.....on the other hand the dress whites or the summer whites are just the worst, wings of gold help offset but not much can overcome that.
I really think the Air Force needs to go back to the Air Corp uniform, I thought those were sharp and retro is in man. Even the tan with blue cover of the post-WWII pre-Vietnam era would be better.
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Exactly. In the post about those American heroes who subdued that guy on the train in France -- http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=48384.0;all -- Chicos' reaction was:
"You watch, the marines will get in trouble for doing this somehow."
He can't help himself. He loves to argue, and if nobody is arguing, he'll start the argument so that others will feel compelled to argue. He loves his own voice.
Yiddish talkers would call him a classic "nudnik."
Because our gov't has crapcanned many heroes in the past for acts of heroism. Examples were provided. The "OVERDOG" at its finest, crapping on fine US men and women soldiers. It wasn't a political statement, it was a statement of reality. Again, examples were provided. Keep cheering on that ultimate Overdog
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Jesus...keep repeating yourself. Fire department physical exams are a joke. How are you comparing the two?
I'm not comparing the two in terms of what is involved. I'm saying the standards should be equal to pass them regardless of gender. Female FF should have the same test parameters as male FF applicants. Exactly what they did for the Rangers....gender should not matter. They got it right, why can't some FF departments?
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In what world did fire departments lower their entrance standards? Must be a California thing. On my department, everyone has to pass the same agility test in the same time frame. It is basically pass/fail, so the great athletes completing it in 6:30 count the same as someone who finishes in 9:59.
My department dinked around with different tests, in 1988 having white male, non-white male, and female lists, in 1990 having a male (any color) and female list. Those got tossed by 1991. Since 1991, there has been one list.
Roughly 1200 people take the test every time. To get to the agility test, you have to finish basically in the top 60. If you do the agility test in under 10:00, you move onto the interviews and background checks. If you are in the top 15, you go through a 16 week class. Then you are put on the streets, getting monthly progress reports. The city can fire you for any reason during your first year.
PRN, I know better.
New York is just the latest http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/
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Times change
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Don't know if it is true. Guess the investigation will shed some additional light. Hope it isn't true
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/254579-lawmaker-probing-whether-female-army-rangers-received-special-treatment
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I am going to post the comments, printed in the Washington Post, of the RTB XO who addressed this bullsh1t last month.
If the RTB XO states that the RIs trained Ranger then no student was cut any slack. I outlined the evaluation process above; it would be impossible for anyone to get through without the concurrence of the RI cadre and their fellow trainees.
The Ranger schoolhouse trains small unit combat leaders from all four services. There is one standard and the entire curriculum is built on one core value: integrity.
Why you want to tarnish the accomplishment of anyone who earned their tab is beyond me.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/20/ranger-school-officer-combats-rumors-about-how-women-passed-in-pointed-facebook-post/
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Everybody knows why, keefe.
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I am going to post the comments, printed in the Washington Post, of the RTB XO who addressed this bullsh1t last month.
If the RTB XO states that the RIs trained Ranger then no student was cut any slack. I outlined the evaluation process above; it would be impossible for anyone to get through without the concurrence of the RI cadre and their fellow trainees.
The Ranger schoolhouse trains small unit combat leaders from all four services. There is one standard and the entire curriculum is built on one core value: integrity.
Why you want to tarnish the accomplishment of anyone who earned their tab is beyond me.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/20/ranger-school-officer-combats-rumors-about-how-women-passed-in-pointed-facebook-post/
I don't know if this was addressed to me, but I think Tower thinks it was. I would like to see this all cleared up so there isn't any tarnishment of any kind.
As stated, hope it isn't true. I don't want the military to do what some fire departments did.
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On Monday, my daughter came home excited after the first day of school. Kris Griest gave the inspirational speech to her high school to kick-off the school year. She said she spoke of the perseverance needed to get through the gruesome Ranger training that she went through and then recalled her days as a student in the same high school she was speaking at. Color my daughter very impressed.
My kid's principal spoke herself last year as she was an Olympian in Athens 2004 representing the USA in the women's hammer throw.
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On Monday, my daughter came home excited after the first day of school. Kris Griest gave the inspirational speech to her high school to kick-off the school year. She said she spoke of the perseverance needed to get through the gruesome Ranger training that she went through and then recalled her days as a student in the same high school she was speaking at. Color my daughter very impressed.
My kid's principal spoke herself last year as she was an Olympian in Athens 2004 representing the USA in the women's hammer throw.
And this is why it's important to get women and other minorities into these types of positions (after having met the same standard as everyone else of course) so that they can present as positive roll models for the youth. Once someone sees it's possible, more often then not you'll see a lot more people able to do it (call it the Roger Bannister corollary). Broadening the people who will/can strive for this type of achievement ensures we get the highest caliber folks in these types of things.
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My daughter kept repeating, "Dad, for the first two weeks of the training she only got 2 hours of sleep a night and 2 sort-of meals a day."