Marquette & '09 WI HS recruits

[Wareagle]

I was just thinking, the '09 recruiting class is a great opportunity to land a significant amount of talented recruits from MU's home state.  Madison has used up all of it's scholarships, and barring Bo running someone out of town, we are in a great position to land Lacy, Maymon, and/or Wilson (less likely, but I can dream...).  That makes the last assistant coach hire crucial, I hope it's someone with ties to the state.  I know it's always possible to go out of state to land big recruits, but it seems like there is a great opportunity for MU to bat 2/3 on the prospects I mentioned above, all of whom are pretty highly touted and seem well suited to our current type of play.

[shaquilvaine]

That would be quite a statement for the new warrior coach to land the #1, 2 and 3 ranked players in state.  Might send a message to the rest of the instate recruits and start a trend.  It also might lead to some new fans as everyone loves the instate appeal. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Why is Wilson a long shot?  Has he said something?

Is it because he visiting Duke?  He'd be nuts not to.  That doesn't mean he's going.

[Wareagle]

Why is Wilson a long shot?  Has he said something?

Is it because he visiting Duke?  He'd be nuts not to.  That doesn't mean he's going.

From everything I've read, Wilson seems to be a longer shot than the other two.  Maymon's only two current offers are from UW-GB and Baylor.  You'd have to think MU would leapfrog those two if we offered.  We we the first to offer Lacy and he has spoken well of us in the past. We also have PT up for grabs at the guard spots after the three amigos leave.  I believe all of the factors above make it much more likely we land Jeronne and Johnnie.

I'm not saying Wilson committing is impossible, but I'd have to say the chances of landing any player diminish once the big boys get involved.  Don't forget, the gloves are off for Izzo as well now that tommy boy left.

[Tugg Speedman]

So Wilson is a long shot just because he's a five star recruit and "names" are interested in him.

Why doesn't MU move to the horizon leagure right now?

[Wareagle]

So Wilson is a long shot just because he's a five star recruit and "names" are interested in him.

Why doesn't MU move to the horizon leagure right now?

I said he's a longer shot and it's "less likely" that we could land him as opposed to Lacy and Maymon.  Do you disagree?

[mviale]

Maymon looks like a playa

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maymon looks like a playa

He better start hitting the books

[jce]

From everything I've read, Wilson seems to be a longer shot than the other two.  Maymon's only two current offers are from UW-GB and Baylor.  You'd have to think MU would leapfrog those two if we offered.  We we the first to offer Lacy and he has spoken well of us in the past. We also have PT up for grabs at the guard spots after the three amigos leave.  I believe all of the factors above make it much more likely we land Jeronne and Johnnie.

I'm not saying Wilson committing is impossible, but I'd have to say the chances of landing any player diminish once the big boys get involved.  Don't forget, the gloves are off for Izzo as well now that tommy boy left.

Maymon will also be offered at UW since he is doing well this AAU season and he gets his grades in order.  Maymon is about a three star.  He dominated the state tournament, but he's a lean, 6'6" player.  I mean, I like this guy a lot, but how much of this is dominating relatively weak competition?

BTW, about Wisconsin scholarships...there will be more coming available for '09 from what I understand.

[mu-rara]

Maymon will also be offered at UW since he is doing well this AAU season and he gets his grades in order.  Maymon is about a three star.  He dominated the state tournament, but he's a lean, 6'6" player.  I mean, I like this guy a lot, but how much of this is dominating relatively weak competition?

BTW, about Wisconsin scholarships...there will be more coming available for '09 from what I understand.

St. Bo can't be chasing kids out of the program, can he?

[jce]

St. Bo can't be chasing kids out of the program, can he?

Well, from what I understand, Gullikson was dropped back to walk on when he signed this kid Evans out of Arizona, and may be looking at "encouraging" a couple of others to leave too. 

Bo is clearly a great Xs and Os coach who gets his teams to play hard and smart.  The problem is that if you look at his roster, he's got a lot of B-level type players...many from Wisconsin...that play smart, fundamental basketball, but can get overwhelmed athletically.

[TVDirector]

He better start hitting the books

if a good academic univ. like baylor offered.......

[tower912]

Stop perpetuating the myth that Bo doesn't get talent.  His team has more 4 and 5 star recruits than MU.   However, it appears that they peak in high school, as Bo teaches them his system (a very good system, I might add) and they become system players and not basketball players.   When Davidson was torching them, they had no plan b, no other way to play.     Bo gets plenty of talent.  But it has to be talent that he can plug in.

[jce]

Stop perpetuating the myth that Bo doesn't get talent.  His team has more 4 and 5 star recruits than MU.   However, it appears that they peak in high school, as Bo teaches them his system (a very good system, I might add) and they become system players and not basketball players.   When Davidson was torching them, they had no plan b, no other way to play.     Bo gets plenty of talent.  But it has to be talent that he can plug in.

While I agree about your system comments, UW doesn't have any five stars on the roster now, and just a few four stars. (Leuer, Bohannon, Nankivil, etc.)

[THEGYMBAR]

Wilson is the top prize. He should not be considered a longshot. MU was leading or at least close to leading three weeks ago. Time for Buzz to step up the efforts. This one recruit makes a ton of difference moving forward.

For once I would love to see MU hold the bar at high level. Getting Wilson is a tough job, but come on!!! Local kid that we have recruited for a long time. I hate when we start making excuses even before the process has been completed. No excuses, lets set the bar high.

[shaquilvaine]

Maymon is also starting to dominate on the AAU circuit which isn't "weak competition."  The kid is a player.  If there were academic concerns, I'm willing to guess many big names would be all over this kid.

[THEGYMBAR]

I like Maymon alot, but have heard there are some character issues. Anyone else hear the same?

[jce]

I like Maymon alot, but have heard there are some character issues. Anyone else hear the same?

Actually, I have heard he's a pretty good guy...just has some classroom issues.

[MU in Miami]

Any updates on Johnnie Lacy's recruitment?  I think having him and Erik Williams in the fold will attract a lot of 2009 talent to commit (hopefully Jamil).

[avid1010]

Stop perpetuating the myth that Bo doesn't get talent.  His team has more 4 and 5 star recruits than MU.   However, it appears that they peak in high school, as Bo teaches them his system (a very good system, I might add) and they become system players and not basketball players.   When Davidson was torching them, they had no plan b, no other way to play.     Bo gets plenty of talent.  But it has to be talent that he can plug in.

It depends how you want to define the word "talent."  Bo doesn't get athletes...he lands a McDonald's All-American that are as "talented" as Brian Butch.  He goes after the best system players he can find.  It doesn't seem an athlete, looking to play in the NBA, is a good fit for Bo's system.  The kids he's able to recruit have proven that.  I would think he could recruit some athletic big men...but that hasn't happened.  

[Niv Berkowitz]

Bo is clearly a great Xs and Os coach who gets his teams to play hard and smart.  The problem is that if you look at his roster, he's got a lot of B-level type players...many from Wisconsin...that play smart, fundamental basketball, but can get overwhelmed athletically.

You just summed up recruiting in WI and why it scares the bejesus out of me if that's what we are relying on for our '09 class. There's Wilson, and then there's everybody else. This is not a great hoops state. Most players from WI other than the single best are b-level talent.

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

Before Wilson, what other WI players were elite and wreaked of BALLIN!-ness?

[bma725]

You just summed up recruiting in WI and why it scares the bejesus out of me if that's what we are relying on for our '09 class. There's Wilson, and then there's everybody else. This is not a great hoops state. Most players from WI other than the single best are b-level talent.

That may be the case in most years, but 2009 and 2010 look totally different.  Wilson is top 10, but Lacy and Maymon are top 100 for sure.  In 2010, Evan Anderson is top 15, Flavian Davis and Vander Blue are top 100.  This isn't years ago when maybe one kid would make the top 150.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

if a good academic univ. like baylor offered.......

Michigan is a good academic univ, and that has never stopped them from offering any athlete with a pulse.  USC is the same way.  Let's not confuse good academic university with athletic admissions.

Please see UW-Madison and Ron Dayne, Moss, etc as examples A & B

[THEGYMBAR]

Niv---Over the past 20y MU has recruited top 75-150 players to the program. I can say with pretty much confidence that over the past 15y you could field a top 40 team in the country with 50% WI players.

Wisconsin, especially Milwaukee, has turned out a slew of D1 players. MU or UW have benefited as well as a ton of other schools. KO put together a sweet sixteen team with one recruiting class out of WI.

I believe too many people underestimate the ball talent locally. I know people can argue that some inner city kids might not make the grade at MU, but that does not diminish the talent level.

Recruiting at home is tougher than recruiting 700 miles from home. Schools like Duke, NC, UCLA and Kanseas can recruit around the country because of reputation. MU will more likely than not only get top 75-100 players from outside the area. UNLESS WE GET JAMIL WILSON---then our reputation changes nationally.

[ChicosBailBonds]

While I agree about your system comments, UW doesn't have any five stars on the roster now, and just a few four stars. (Leuer, Bohannon, Nankivil, etc.)

Yes but last year they had Butch, and he was a 5 star player

[jce]

Niv---Over the past 20y MU has recruited top 75-150 players to the program. I can say with pretty much confidence that over the past 15y you could field a top 40 team in the country with 50% WI players.

Wisconsin, especially Milwaukee, has turned out a slew of D1 players. MU or UW have benefited as well as a ton of other schools. KO put together a sweet sixteen team with one recruiting class out of WI.

I believe too many people underestimate the ball talent locally. I know people can argue that some inner city kids might not make the grade at MU, but that does not diminish the talent level.

Recruiting at home is tougher than recruiting 700 miles from home. Schools like Duke, NC, UCLA and Kanseas can recruit around the country because of reputation. MU will more likely than not only get top 75-100 players from outside the area. UNLESS WE GET JAMIL WILSON---then our reputation changes nationally.

Even getting Jamil Wilson will not change that reputation.  To some from the outside, that may just mean a kid wanted to stay near home.

Now, pulling in a couple top 20 prospects from out of the state...*that* will change a reputation.

[THEGYMBAR]

JCE---It gets easier once you get the first stud. Recruiting better players starts with recruiting a stud. Better teams get better players, plain and simple. Getting Lacy and Wilson makes us better.

Again, the talent pool locally is deep. MU does not always recruit everyone because of grades which I think is a mistake. National recruiting is done when you are a nationally recognized program.

[MU in Miami]

National recruiting is done when you are a nationally recognized program.

We cetainly were nationally recognized the last three years by ranking and we will very likely be a top 25 program the coming year. 

Locals like Lacy and Wilson know the impact that MU's final four team had on the university and the downtown area over the last few years.  They have a chance to contribute to the program and area's success--hopefully that will factor in their decisions.

[RawdogDX]

Quote from: THEGYMBAR on Today at 12:57:22 PM

Over the past 20y MU has recruited top 75-150 players to the program. I can say with pretty much confidence that over the past 15y you could field a top 40 team in the country with 50% WI players.

you think so?  That is amazing. There are 50 states and wisconsin is the 20th largest and you think that they could put together a top 40 team?  With 'pretty much confidence'?  It must really be a basketball mecca. 

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog---What difference does size of State have to do with things? Flat out Milwaukee and WI has produced a ton of D1 players over the past two decades.

Nothing to argue or dispute. If MU wanted to recruit marginal students they could be Top 40 or higher most years with 50% WI kids. Look at TC's FF team. How many WI kids on that team were impact players?

Robert Jackson
Steve Novak
Travis Diener
Scott Merrit

I know, I know DWADE...but as I said 50% WI kids and you can win. Last two runs by MU in NCAA were KO and sweet sixteen with WI kids and FF team with WI kids.

[THEGYMBAR]

MU Miami--Top 25 does not make you nationally recognized. Top 10 for a period of time makes you recognized. MU in the 1970's was close to ground zero in hoops. We could recruit anywhere against anyone with exception of possibly UCLA.

We are not close to be at that level currently. The hire of Buzz makes signing of Wilson that much bigger. The hire was a "no splash" hire nationally. Getting McDonald's All-Americans is a splash.

[RawdogDX]

Rawdog---What difference does size of State have to do with things? Flat out Milwaukee and WI has produced a ton of D1 players over the past two decades.

Nothing to argue or dispute. If MU wanted to recruit marginal students they could be Top 40 or higher most years with 50% WI kids. Look at TC's FF team. How many WI kids on that team were impact players?

Robert Jackson
Steve Novak
Travis Diener
Scott Merrit

I know, I know DWADE...but as I said 50% WI kids and you can win. Last two runs by MU in NCAA were KO and sweet sixteen with WI kids and FF team with WI kids.

I wasn't disagreeing with you.  The point was that any state of significant size can put together '50% of a top 40 team'.  How is that even a high goal to you?  Top 40 team?  making up 50%?  That could be said about pretty much any state not in the bottom five of population (by the way population matters because athletes are people and thus more people generally means more athletes).  
But, just keep patting yourself on the back because wisco produces 'a ton of D1 players over the last two decades.' ... just like everywhere else.  Talk about a Napoleon complex.

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog---Firstly, Wisconsin is in upper third for producing D1 players. Obviously population counts, but 20y ago with comparable population we did not generate as many D1 players. The inner city schools have improved the coaching and the AAU teams have helped improve the talent.

Top 40 program is pretty much what every school outside of Duke, Kansas, NC and UCLA hope to be. Top 40 means some years you are top 10 and bad year you are top 40. Kentucky and AZ were top 40 this year. I would gladly take their position in bball world.

My point is simple. Recruiting at home is easier than recruiting away from home. If we focused on the area and got the top couple kids in the state every year we would be way ahead of the curve.

[TVDirector]

Michigan is a good academic univ, and that has never stopped them from offering any athlete with a pulse.  USC is the same way.  Let's not confuse good academic university with athletic admissions.

Please see UW-Madison and Ron Dayne, Moss, etc as examples A & B

sorry, UW ain't Baylor.

[ChicosBailBonds]

sorry, UW ain't Baylor.

No, it sure isn't.     75 for Baylor and UW-Madison at 38

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php


Just looking at the top 100 schools, with the exception of Stanford and to some degree UCLA, most of them make considerable allowances for athletes to come into their school where if they were part of the general population, not a chance in hell.

[RawdogDX]

Rawdog---Firstly, Wisconsin is in upper third for producing D1 players. Obviously population counts, but 20y ago with comparable population we did not generate as many D1 players. The inner city schools have improved the coaching and the AAU teams have helped improve the talent.

Top 40 program is pretty much what every school outside of Duke, Kansas, NC and UCLA hope to be. Top 40 means some years you are top 10 and bad year you are top 40. Kentucky and AZ were top 40 this year. I would gladly take their position in bball world.

My point is simple. Recruiting at home is easier than recruiting away from home. If we focused on the area and got the top couple kids in the state every year we would be way ahead of the curve.

1) top third almong states? so like 17th?  ok, sure, go throw a parade or something.  And way to act like this is a fact when you are guessing.

as for the rest. Yes it's easier to recurit people close to you. Yes, if we got most of the top prospects from any state and combined them with a few key peices from other states we'd be an above average to good team.  wow, that is deep man do you have a pod cast or anything? 

[TVDirector]

No, it sure isn't.     75 for Baylor and UW-Madison at 38

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php


Just looking at the top 100 schools, with the exception of Stanford and to some degree UCLA, most of them make considerable allowances for athletes to come into their school where if they were part of the general population, not a chance in hell.

and so, since MU is not ranked by useless news and world report, UW is a tougher school for athletes to get into etc etc etc?

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

and so, since MU is not ranked by useless news and world report, UW is a tougher school for athletes to get into etc etc etc?

 

Uhm, no...that's my point....UW-Madison and most other top 100 schools make a ton of exceptions for athletes.  So whether you're Baylor or MU or UW-Madison, usually doesn't much matter depending on how willing the school is going to go.  Many times it's a case by case scenario.

My point was simply that if Baylor offered the kid, that doesn't necessarily mean anything because even though Baylor is a good school for the general population, it doesn't usually mean much when it comes to athletes.  They're going to make exceptions if they feel it is worth it.  UW-Madison, MU, etc are all the same.  On the same token, just because Baylor would offer, doesn't mean MU would if MU thought that risk wasn't worth it.

For the record, I'm not a big fan of those rankings either, but when you said Baylor is no UW-Madison, that seemed a bit off.  For most folks, UW-Madison is considered a better academic institution then Baylor.  But even UW-Madison has shown that they will let folks like Brent Moss, Ron Dayne, etc into their institution, people that were at a 5th grade reading level.

PS  Marquette was ranked 82nd.

[TVDirector]

Baylor University
FRESHMAN-COHORT GRADUATION RATES
Student-Athlete Graduation Success Rate 87%

University of Wisconsin, Madison
FRESHMAN-COHORT GRADUATION RATES
Student-Athlete Graduation Success Rate 78%

Marquette University
Student-Athlete Graduation Success Rate 95%

my point is that Baylor is a fine academic university that appears to be more concerned about their student-athlete success rates (like an MU) and therefor, I would gather, scrutinize a scholar-athlete's ability to meet the educational demands as part of the recruiting process.
UW, while ranked highly for their research, many programs, whatever, certainly doesn't seem to have those same scruples.
MU seems to share that sentiment with a school like Baylor-

so-
if Baylor is confident enough to offer with their expectations for a student-athlete to succeed, I would gather that MU might certainly be as comfortable.

whatever academic shortcomings he may have that would prompt you to write he'd bess start hitting the books is apparently not a concern for an institution that appears to value the athletes' academic success.

[dennycrane]

Actually, I have heard he's a pretty good guy...just has some classroom issues.

A year ago there were many posters who would not have wanted to touch Maymon. He has both academic and character issues. Has been suspended from school in the past. I don't know what to think of his father.

A coach with more experience and stature may be able to handle taking Maymon.

[MU in Miami]

Top 25 does not make you nationally recognized. Top 10 for a period of time makes you recognized.

I agree with you to some degree, but I think I need a more concrete definition of national recognition.  Are we regarded in the same way as UCLA--no, but it's an unfair comparison.  It might be unfair comparison for any other program period.  We have a top ranked program, the polls acknowledge this, and the ranking has been fairly consistent.  We compete in an elite division and the games are on national TV.  When I can catch regular season games on local CBS here (and see repeats on ESPN-U), I would think the program has some recognition.

It might be anomalous experience because of Dwyane, but I always get a kick out of seeing Marquette gear at the AAA....and non-alums wearing it.  We have some profile & it's not a bad one.

[THEGYMBAR]

MU in Miami--Agreed on your post. We are nationally recognized but a couple of sweet 16 appearances will take that bar higher. The problem as I see is that MU is 2nd tier in elite conference. We need to get top three in BE for a couple of years.

Rawdog--Sorry if I have pissed you, not really sure why stating my opinion has caused you to get pissed off. I stand by my comments. I think any MU fan should be happy that we have D1 talent locally. Confused on how or why that would be a point to diasgree on.

Again, MU's last two real runs in NCAA had alot of WI on the team.

[hoops12]

"While I agree about your system comments, UW doesn't have any five stars on the roster now, and just a few four stars. (Leuer, Bohannon, Nankivil, etc.)"

On Wisconsin's current roster they have six four star players. That's basically half of their roster!
    - Landry, Krabbenhoft, Hughes, Bohannon, Leuer and Nankovil.

[Mayor McCheese]

Arizona State being on that report is a joke...

They accept anyone, take anyone, and isn't a good school...

I would put any 4 year Wisconsin school against the bottom part of that report.

Florida St is also a joke as of what I am told.

[jce]

"While I agree about your system comments, UW doesn't have any five stars on the roster now, and just a few four stars. (Leuer, Bohannon, Nankivil, etc.)"

On Wisconsin's current roster they have six four star players. That's basically half of their roster!
    - Landry, Krabbenhoft, Hughes, Bohannon, Leuer and Nankovil.

OK...I'll man-up and throw up the white flag. 

[RawdogDX]

Rawdog--Sorry if I have pissed you, not really sure why stating my opinion has caused you to get pissed off. I stand by my comments. I think any MU fan should be happy that we have D1 talent locally. Confused on how or why that would be a point to diasgree on.

wtf?  pissed off?  ...  i don't see where you keep thinking i'm writing that mu fans should be pissed about the level of local talent.  Do you even read posts before responding?  I even put an f'ing smilie face on my last one, and i hate those things.

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog---Glad to hear it. Actually I thought your smiley face was in reference to your podcast comment. I did read your posts and most of your posts. If I misunderstood my apologies. For some reason I thought you were mocking my comments.

[Big Daddy Z]

our problem is we do not have a PG for 09....and in the BE you need a stud to get it done...we are heading for the St John's level unless we pull one out of JUCO & also recruit a 4-5* freshman....end of story.