NBA draft age rule

[Goose]

If you do not think Kobe has high ball IQ the who in the world does? I am big, big Jordan groupie but have to admire Kobe both in talent and ball IQ. He may make stupid decisions because he feels need to take over the game and it often bites him in the ass. If every player have Kobe's ball IQ the game would be much better to watch.

[Warriors10]

If you think Kobe is a high IQ basketball player then you don't know what the term "high IQ basketball player" means.

Do you know what the term high IQ basketball player means?

[GGGG]

If you think Kobe is a high IQ basketball player then you don't know what the term "high IQ basketball player" means.

Well, I now know that one of us doesn't know what a high IQ basketball player means...

[MerrittsMustache]

Agree to disagree.

[MU82]

Taking a practical view, yes, kids should be allowed to go from high school to the NBA, just as a great trumpet player is allowed to go from high school to the symphony, a great actor can go from high school (or earlier) to MGM Studios, a great golfer can just skip college and go right to the tour, etc.

But the NBA, a private enterprise, has every right to regulate (with the agreement of its players union) the employees it wants to put on its payroll. And the NBA has several reasons to not want high-schoolers (or even one-and-doners):

1. It wants its teams to have to do as little babysitting as possible. It wants its players, including its rookies, to be as mature as possible. There are too many immature 22 and 32 year olds as it is; the league would rather have fewer teenagers, not more.

2. It doesn't want to have its scouts having to go to high school games. Stern, in fact, just cited this as one of the main reasons he's glad the league is out of the prep business. Scouting departments are stretched thin enough going to Europe and other parts of the world. Having to go to high school gyms all over America was really unappealing during those years scouts had to do it.

3. It's hard enough to project the professional potential of most college players.

4. The NBA likes having the NCAA as its minor-league system and wants NCAA coaches to develop as many NBA-ready players as possible.

The NBA would like a two-year college minimum every bit as much as NCAA coaches and fans would. But, as previously stated, this is not something the NBA can just do. The players association would want something major in return, and right now, with the ink on the new CBA barely dry, its not something that's gonna happen any time soon.

[LAZER]

If you think Kobe is a high IQ basketball player then you don't know what the term "high IQ basketball player" means.

What difference does it make if they have a "high basketball IQ"?  Bottomline line is that Lebron has a skill set that EVERY NBA General Manager will pay millions upon millions of dollars for.  That skill set has been developed without a year in college. 

You can look at a dozen of NBA players that have come out of high school that have had long careers and made millions of dollars.  They haven't been all stars, but they've managed to stay in the league and have long careers and end up making 10+ mil.  And as far as development/maturity goes look at the wonders college did for Antoine Walker and Allen Iverson.

[Stretchdeltsig]

I think the NBA should take a position similar to the NFL.

[wadesworld]

That doesn't mean he's not a great, great player. He's far and away the most talented player in the NBA since Jordan. However, he doesn't understand when to take over a game, how to get everyone involved, how to close or how to put his team on his back and carry them to a big victory. Would a year or two at Ohio State have changed that? We'll never know but I do know that it's tough to find high IQ basketball players who entered the league straight from high school.

Don't tell that to Kevin Durant, offensively.  Definitely more of a complete player, but Durant is more talented offensively.

As far as putting a team on his back and stepping up in a situation, that has nothing to do with basketball IQ.  It's funny that you say Kobe doesn't have a good basketball IQ and then site those two things as proof of Lebron having none.  Is there anyone who steps up bigger in big situations than Kobe?  Puts his team on his back as much as Kobe?  Yet you say he doesn't have a high basketball IQ.  Those things have to do with a guy's personality.  Jerad Sullinger spent 2 years at the same school you sited (OSU) and he didn't learn how to do those things.  Why?  Because those aren't things you learn to do.  They are characteristics of a person/player.  You don't learn characteristics.  You can get better through experience, but you aren't going to learn to become a leader.

And getting his teammates involved?  Lebron is one of the best passers in the NBA.  He averages 6.4 assists per game as a small forward.  He averages 6.9 assists per game on his career, and a large majority of that came with an awful, awful Cavaliers team.  I think he has that part of the game down just fine.

And yes, Kobe Bryant has a high basketball IQ.  A very, very high basketball IQ.  There are not many guys in the NBA who understand the game better than Kobe Bryant.

[mu03eng]

I think both the NBA and the NFL need to allow players straight from high school.  As the rules are set-up now, quite frankly, its socialism.  Players are being denied the ability to make fair value on their abilities and why should they be treated differently from Joe Schmoe who can choose to go to college or not to enable their future career.  Yes players get legal benefits as college players but not nearly fair market value of what they could get if going to the NBA.  Also pro players have a limited shelf life, spending even one year not earning in the NBA could lose a player millions of dollars that they may have needed if an injury shortens their career.

Additionally, it opens up more slots for players that could use several years of college to develop into a player for the NBA.  There was no denying Lebron was ready for the NBA, but how much was Dwyane Wade helped by playing 2 years and in college for 3.  Wade wouldn't have sniffed the NBA after high school but he took advantage of an opportunity to improve his value and it worked.  Lebron didn't need that opportunity.  Give the individual the choice

I'm not getting into the mental pissing match since I think winning IQ and basketball IQ are two different things.

Lastly, college is not some magical elixir that after a year teaches players how to make the right choice, spend money appropriately and not get into shady business.  If you want that, put on a mandatory life lessons workshop for anyone entering the league and be done with it.  

[MerrittsMustache]

Lastly, college is not some magical elixir that after a year teaches players how to make the right choice, spend money appropriately and not get into shady business.  If you want that, put on a mandatory life lessons workshop for anyone entering the league and be done with it.  

They already do this.

[RushmoreAcademy]

As the rules are set-up now, quite frankly, its socialism.  

I disagree with that.  The NBA is a business and has the right to require qualifications for its employees like any other business.  If the players don't like it, they don't have to work there. They can go play overseas if they want.
I respect the opinion of thinking guys should be able to go straight to the NBA is that's how you feel though. 

[Bocephys]

I think both the NBA and the NFL need to allow players straight from high school.  As the rules are set-up now, quite frankly, its socialism.  Players are being denied the ability to make fair value on their abilities and why should they be treated differently from Joe Schmoe who can choose to go to college or not to enable their future career.  Yes players get legal benefits as college players but not nearly fair market value of what they could get if going to the NBA.  Also pro players have a limited shelf life, spending even one year not earning in the NBA could lose a player millions of dollars that they may have needed if an injury shortens their career.

his is no different than a company that requires an advanced degree to get into management or something similar.  If you don't like it, don't work there.  If you want to work there though, you have to follow their rules.  No one is entitled to play in the NBA at a given age.

[GGGG]

his is no different than a company that requires an advanced degree to get into management or something similar.  If you don't like it, don't work there.  If you want to work there though, you have to follow their rules.  No one is entitled to play in the NBA at a given age.

That's why such requirements are outlined in collective bargaining.

[RawdogDX]

The problem is that it is completely unnecessary.  Anthony Davis should have been able to go right to the NBA.  Lebron James would have just wasted time in college.  Frankly I wish the NBA would simply allow players right out of high school again, but that's not going to happen.

So? It's completely unnecessary for some people to attend college or a tech school after highschool to become a chicago police but it's required. 
Every year there are 1000's of high school kids could become computer programmers and 1000s of companies don't give them the chance because they want to see degrees.  Why should i care about a small sector that wants some post high school experience before signing individuals to million dollar deals. 
You wouldn't care about any industry but basketball, it's completely reasonable.

[GGGG]

I'm sorry but this makes little sense.

1000s of kids *might* be able to become computer programmers, but companies want to see degrees because it gives the programmer a label of legitimacy.  They know that if they have the degree, they can be assured that they know their stuff and (more importantly) have the intellectual capacity to grow.  Similar to Chicago police.

However, going to college is completely irrelevant to being a professional basketball player.  There is nothing that college basketball can teach them that they can't learn in either Europe or the D-League.

[muwarrior69]

Argh! A rule which allows Fab Melo to be academically inelegible for another year makes perfect sense. Just let them go Pro. Then at least the money some schools spend to tutor these kids is well spent on a kid who just might get a degree.

[RushmoreAcademy]

There is nothing that college basketball can teach them that they can't learn in either Europe or the D-League.

Which is what Brandon Jennings did.
Here is an excerpt from the Daily Texan talking about Stern trying to set up a different system and the NCAA not going for it:
-----
"Stern tried to avoid this clash years ago, but the NCAA didn’t play along.

“Years ago I said to the NCAA, I’ve got a great idea. We’ll insure a select group of basketball players. And that will make them more likely to stay in school, because they won’t feel the loss of a big contract,” Stern said. “We’ll designate a pool and those lucky enough to be drafted and make money will pay us back, and those that don’t, it’s our expense.

“The NCAA I think took it to a committee ... and they said it will only work under our rules if we do that for all sports. And I said, I don’t think that’ll work.”

Kentucky is also the exception to the rule. Most teams loaded with talented freshman don’t get far in the NCAA Tournament.

So what’s the big deal? Money. The NCAA wants the best basketball players to play for them. For free."
-----

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm sorry but this makes little sense.

1000s of kids *might* be able to become computer programmers, but companies want to see degrees because it gives the programmer a label of legitimacy.  They know that if they have the degree, they can be assured that they know their stuff and (more importantly) have the intellectual capacity to grow.  Similar to Chicago police.

However, going to college is completely irrelevant to being a professional basketball player.  There is nothing that college basketball can teach them that they can't learn in either Europe or the D-League.

I disagree completely.

College, for most kids, is there first time living away from home and having to balance schoolwork, social life and playing ball. D1 programs are pretty strict, but it's still ultimately up to the player.

If I'm the NBA, I'd love to get a "free" look at these kids' maturation process before I go handing out million dollar deals because a kid can jump high.

Hell, if I were the NBA, I'd require 4 years. If would give me a good look at each player, it would give me an idea of the players work ethic, and I would have more maturity in the league.

All for FREE. NBA doesn't have to pay for any of this minor league development.


THE PROBLEM IS: If the NBA actually tried this, it would open up the marketplace for a competing league that could/would take HS players and pay them a lot.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

However, going to college is completely irrelevant to being a professional basketball player. 

This is true in a lot of careers.

Tech. careers like science, engineering, etc. You need practice and training that college provides.

More abstract career choices are really learned on the job (marketing, sales, advertising, political science, etc.)

College can teach you some skills, but it is not a predictor of success in any career sector.

[nathanziarek]

Wait, do the kids have to go to college? It's just one year out of high school, right?

If that's the case, don't you think one year of experience playing against high-level competition gives the player a label of legitimacy?

For the NBA, like most enterprises, it's about mitigating risk (it's probably worse for the NBA since their reputation is so important). Companies hire programmers with college degrees and experience because it reduces the risk of hire. The NBA's one-year rule accomplishes a similar thing. Instead of taking a risk on an unproven 18-year old who has never played against great competition, they get a year to evaluate. (Stern has also said that keeping scouts out of high school gyms saves times and money.)

As for going to college or Europe, I think college offers a lot more than room and board. Look at Anthony Davis: yeah, there were a few folks out there that knew of this high school kid. He's now a household name and has started to cultivate a brand. Whatever team drafts him inherits a few millions Kentucky fans. Davis' value is higher now than it ever was out of high school. I don't think that's completely irrelevant.

I'm actually in the market for a new job and wish I could explain to these companies that I'd make a great CEO, but, sadly, I'm lacking in that experience department. I don't understand why we'd ask the NBA to be any different.

[RawdogDX]

I'm sorry but this makes little sense.

1000s of kids *might* be able to become computer programmers, but companies want to see degrees because it gives the programmer a label of legitimacy.  They know that if they have the degree, they can be assured that they know their stuff and (more importantly) have the intellectual capacity to grow.  Similar to Chicago police.

However, going to college is completely irrelevant to being a professional basketball player.  There is nothing that college basketball can teach them that they can't learn in either Europe or the D-League.

I specifically said "post high-school experience".  Not 'College'.  A bball player could go to europe and a high school programer could also go work for some firm with lower standards and then use that experience to leverage a job sans degree.  

I don't see a difference and I can't fathom a reason to hold anything against the owners.  It is there money, they don't want to be put in a postition where they are giving millions of it to 18 year olds.  For every lebron who will have to spend two years in college or eurpoe there will be 3 kawmi browns who could have been helped by it.

[GGGG]

I specifically said "post high-school experience".  Not 'College'.  A bball player could go to europe and a high school programer could also go work for some firm with lower standards and then use that experience to leverage a job sans degree. 

I don't see a difference and I can't fathom a reason to hold anything against the owners.  It is there money, they don't want to be put in a postition where they are giving millions of it to 18 year olds.  For every lebron who will have to spend two years in college or eurpoe there will be 3 kawmi browns who could have been helped by it.

OK...I really don't have any disagreements with this. 

[Hoopaloop]

Cuban would like players to stay 3 years in college

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7778070/dallas-mavericks-mark-cuban-make-players-stay-3-years-ncaa

I think both the NBA and the NFL need to allow players straight from high school.  As the rules are set-up now, quite frankly, its socialism.  Players are being denied the ability to make fair value on their abilities and why should they be treated differently from Joe Schmoe who can choose to go to college or not to enable their future career.  Yes players get legal benefits as college players but not nearly fair market value of what they could get if going to the NBA.  Also pro players have a limited shelf life, spending even one year not earning in the NBA could lose a player millions of dollars that they may have needed if an injury shortens their career.

What person in today's society is reaping these vast rewards of skipping college and going right into their future career?  Landscapers?  Construction guys?  Most white collar positions require a 4 year degree at a minimum.  For those that don't, those aren't usually positions with much upside.

[CTWarrior]

Cuban would like players to stay 3 years in college

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7778070/dallas-mavericks-mark-cuban-make-players-stay-3-years-ncaa


What person in today's society is reaping these vast rewards of skipping college and going right into their future career?  Landscapers?  Construction guys?  Most white collar positions require a 4 year degree at a minimum.  For those that don't, those aren't usually positions with much upside.

It is not a question of reaping benefits.  It is a question of fair access to your profession and being able to decide for yourself.  An arbitrary rule like high school plus one takes away rightful options from the players.  Why Mark Cuban or anyone else feels it is important that the NBA protect basketball players from making dumb decisions is beyond me.  (Here's a hint, they really don't care.)  

Basically, the NBA has this rule for two reasons.

1.  It gives the teams a better handle on how good a kid is than if they just took them right out of high school, lessening the chance of wasting money and valuable draft picks on kids who won't be able to cut it.

2.  The college game gives the NBA free access to promoting its new players and therefore helps marketing.  Having a kid who starred on National TV for Kentucky is a lot more valuable to the NBA than if the kid went to the D-League and starred for the Des Moines Thundercats or whatever for a year.

[GGGG]

What person in today's society is reaping these vast rewards of skipping college and going right into their future career?  Landscapers?  Construction guys?  Most white collar positions require a 4 year degree at a minimum.  For those that don't, those aren't usually positions with much upside.

C'mon... You don't need classroom college experience to play basketball.  European soccer teams have youth academies and scout players as young as 9 years old and run them through their system.  The NBA could develop that exact same system, which frankly is more intellectually honest than having high schools, AAU teams and colleges do their training for them.